Disappointment

Wanye
February 23 2009 01:38PM

disappointment

Sometimes the Oilers gas one in the Battle of Alberta and you don’t even get to see the game. Sometimes you buy bunk celebrity nudie magazines. Sometimes the haters start to get you down. What can you do right?

You write about it. That’s what you do.

Disappointment #1: Oilers lose the Battle of Alberta, we are working during the game.

We were so excited to go to war in the Battle of Alberta on the Nation. Like seriously we were excited-like-this-kid-is-excited excited:

Obama 2008 Georgia

As the big day of the game drew near it became more and more clear that we were going to have to go out of town for the day job for the weekend. This is one of the few suck things about the day job. We are often cut off from real life and sent out of town. We figured on game night we would duck out early, head to the hotel and plug into $20 internet access just in time for puck drop. To keep from boring you to tears of blood about our night, not only did we not get to participate in the GDB – which reads hilariously by the way – but we didn’t even get to see the game. Sometimes we feel like life is passing us by. No joke.

Silver lining #1: Loved reading the GDB

When we read the opinions of Flames fans addressing the OilersNation and the thundering replies we nearly died laughing. It’s exactly as we hoped it would be. We have absolutely no idea what people around the league think of the Oil. Finding out what Flames fans think obviously couldn’t possibly matter less, but it is non-stop awesome watching the Citizens of the Nation banding together and defending the fortress.

There is no doubt that while the Oilers may limp along during the season, the OilersNation would go 82-0 defeating all the fans of all the other teams. It’s not even close. We have to figure out how to find more reinforcements for the seven Flames fans that dared enter the Nation and engaged us all in battle. Perhaps the Oil could do us the slightest favor and win a game or two. That couldn’t hurt our swagger.

Promise #1: We are working on a way to bring JL meetings with you using some variety of mobile application.

Maybe it’s an iPhone application or something you can download onto your BlackBerry. All we know is that we want to be connected to our precious Nation 24/7 so that when we are sitting in a banquet missing the entire game we can ask the JL “what is happening? What is the score?” 147 times per period. Yeah, that will be so sweet.

Anyway you slice it we are committed to working at a day job to pay for the upgrades to the Nation so we can miss Battle of Alberta games because of the day job required to pay for the Nation. Makes a lot of sense doesn’t it?

Shut up.

Disappointment #2: The Aubrey O’Day Playboy

aubrey

Yeah we buy celebrity nudie magazines. So what? Wanna fight about it?

If anyone out there doesn’t know who Aubrey O’Day because they are living in some variety of underground bunker – she is one of these quasi-singers recruited via reality TV to a band that will soon be forgotten. In Aubrey’s case the show was Making the Band and the band is Danity Kane. Miss O’Day is hands down one of the wildest dames in all of music today. So when we read that she has upped her game from flashing passing motorists on a freeway to posing in Playboy we knew we had to get ourselves some of that. And quick.

Quick question: Did anyone else know that Playboy is basically as interesting as an issue of Canadian Home and Garden? We had no idea that we would be buying a crappy version of Maxim with 2% more nudity and 98% less interesting articles. We sat down to look at some cans and ended up reading a seven page article written by the brother of the Unabomber (true story.) Even worse, the photos of O’Day were so photoshopped and looked so little like her that it could have been Sandra Day O’Connor for all we could tell. This could not be more disappointing to us.

odaySilver lining #2: There is no silver lining when you spend your hard earned dough on bunk celebrity nudie magazines. There just isn’t. *looks at Aubrey O’Day playboy sitting on desk at Nation HQ, shakes fist at cover*

Disappointment #3: Haters

internetdickwad1

Crappy nudie magazines aside, one of the biggest disappointments of the past 12 months has been the number of haters that have come out of the woodwork and are trying to mess with our junk here on the interwebs. Now we have to admit we don’t necessarily know who all the blogs are out there and who everyone one is. We follow a couple dozen sweet blogs and when we find Nation haters out there we generally just go somewhere else. It’s really easy to do but apparently our haters feel the need to visit here on a regular basis and rant and rave. At the present time we are spending a ton of time defending the Nation from hater commenters, hater bloggers, hater reporters and even worse types of uber-haters out there.

We are all for freedom of speech but it is getting to be a bit much. We want to spend our time debating Liam Reddox’s contributions on the fourth line and drawing pretty pictures, not dealing with Buzz Killeringtons and their complete and utter bullshit. We don’t mind deleting commentary here and there. There is a special thrill that comes with writing swear words and poo poo talk on a website. We get that. It’s when it goes a step further and leaves the zone of “slightly annoying shit” and enters into the realm of “shit-where-people-are-just-being-dicks-for-the-sake-of-being-dicks-type-shit” that it starts to really break us down.

Recent example? Jason Gregor’s “plagarism.”

Holy fuck people. You’re serious right? We come up with a contest idea of suggesting a promotion for a soon-to-be-craptacular Oil Cats game. Gregor tells us he will dig up some stuff and sends us an article complete with list of promotions for minor league baseball teams to get the brains of the Nation started. He doesn’t even charge us for the article and donates the tickets from his own personal stash for a Nation reader to win. We paste the article into our little blogging software which takes out the formatting and fonts and we don’t realize that there are quotes in it cause as per usual we are doing 1000 things at once. Could you have a geekier mistake that couldn’t be of less consequence once it is fixed?

Let’s be very clear here: Honest mistake by me. Not Gregor at all in any way, shape or form.

So then someone reading the article is genuinely clever enough to figure out that these promotion descriptions are from other articles and points it out. Fair enough - that is certainly worth bringing to the attention of the class. We get that and would never delete that kind of commentary. Instead we read the comment and almost have a heart attack when we realize what we did and quickly text Gregor an apology. He classily says “honest mistake dude don’t worry about it.” Then a boatload of folk barrage him with comments and personal emails as though they are detectives on the trail of the crime of the century.

You’re serious right? Jason Gregor – actual big time journalist that makes appearances daily on radio, internet and even national TV – is going run the risk of being busted plagiarizing on an article about minor league baseball promotions as a pretext to give away his own Oilers tickets? Do you know how many times we beg Gregor to give away tickets on here? We literally ask him once a week. Think he is going to be in a rush to give us tickets again? For heavens sakes haters. Get a dose of reality. We personally could give two squirts of piss about people who hate this website.

But what if these haters somehow piss off the real writers on here enough that they:

  1. Stop trying as hard
  2. Don’t give away tickets or heaven forbid
  3. Decide that the $1.24 we pay per article isn’t worth it and quit writing

Wouldn’t that be a treat?

So yeah. From now the authors have the ability to delete comments on their own articles. If that keeps them happy and frees us up to do other Nation stuff then so be it. We love the Nation and we will be damned if a handful of haters are going to come on here and ruin our fun.

The other 99.87% of the Nation - we love you long time. Who wants a slightly used Aubrey O'Day playboy? Huh? HUH?

09049f03ecb006ab29372206f2a88f75
Blog so hard motherf**ckers try and find me. Email me at wanyegretz@gmail.com or tweet me @wanyegretz provided it is about Jordan Eberle or babes.
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#1 The Towel Boy
February 23 2009, 01:50PM
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*google image searches "Aubrey O’Day"*

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#2 Monday Guy
February 23 2009, 01:53PM
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Hey wait a second, I wrote that same article last week thats it, I'm SO writing swear words !!

... in my next post

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#3 Monday Guy's Concience
February 23 2009, 01:53PM
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Dont be a dick Monday Guy

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#4 99thOilfan
February 23 2009, 01:58PM
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"Dickwad Theory"..yes, it was in my social studies class. We also discussed the dynamics of "Wagonjupmers", " I wrote a paper called "Hiarchy of pissants " Only got a D+

And I think I sat behind Buzz Killerington..

I think he moved to Calgary, times are slow for him, works for the City, sweeping up after cup wins.

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#5 RyanD
February 23 2009, 02:01PM
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Just how "slightly used" are we talking?

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#6 TonyT
February 23 2009, 02:10PM
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I really don't understand the logic of having Flames fans post on here. Debating with "Phaneufdoesnotlikesloppyseconds212" is like arguing with a dog whether kibbles n bits or chow wow is better, in that like a dog the Flames just don't know and think a bone (or win) is a bone. Where we citizens of the Nation have tasted the goods and after years of living the high life can differentiate between the two, sure it was twenty years ago, but it was 5 times and it was good. We are in the know, and when you're in the know you know that those who brag about chow wow just don't know.

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#7 Travis Dakin
February 23 2009, 02:16PM
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I've been reading the blogs for quite some time now and I pretty much check all of the frequently updated ones on a daily basis. One thing that has always annoyed the hell out of me is how much hating there is going on. There is a little clique over at the geek squad that has that holier than thou, pretentious attitude. Are we not all cheering for the same team? So I totally get that everybody is going to have differing opinions on the value of say... a Shawn Horcoff or the abilities of a Craig MacTavish, but what's with all the personal attacks. Tyler and Dennis come here or stay on their own sites and constantly bash the likes of Gregor and Brownlee and I can't see why. Those guys (Tyler and Dennis) are obviously smart and have well thought out ideas when it comes to the operations of the team but are way too relentless on the personal attacks because they feel that MSM guys don't have the balls to constantly be in Lowe or MacTavish's faces telling them how much they suck or something. It's utter bullsh*t. Borwnlee and Gregor give us an insight to the team that you can't get anywhere else and the hardcore fan in me is thankful every single day that they do. Ok, so oilernation isn't all about corsi numbers or how many goals Penner scores if he takes a sh*t before as opposed to after a game. (Willis is here and his articles blow everything else on the 'sphere out of the water) And yes The contributions of JSBM and Wanye may be on the immature side... But that's what this sites appeal is. I love it. If it doesn't make you happy then you can read MC79 if you want to read about scoring chances, or Lowetide if you want to read about batting percentages or well written stories that tie into the current state of the Oilers over a Black dog. They all have their appeal. They don't offer everything I want in a site and quite frankly are frequently commented on by some arrogant know it alls, but we don't need to be over there telling them how much they suck. It's such a piss off. I just don't get it.

Lovingly,

Travis FMNF

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#8 The Towel Boy
February 23 2009, 02:22PM
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@ Travis Dakin:

Well said.

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#9 Jack "FMNF" Bauer
February 23 2009, 02:42PM
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Ive said before, and Ill say again. Its not Jason and Robin's job to bring the fan's view to the team, its their job to bring the team's view to the fans.

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#10 shakey
February 23 2009, 02:48PM
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@ Travis Dakin: I'm so voting for you for Gov. Gen. of OilersNation.

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#11 Rick
February 23 2009, 02:52PM
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It would be a real shame to see this site lose Gregor and or Brownlee because of what appears to be some sort of inferiority complex (or would it be superiority complex? anyways there is a complex in there somewhere) by a few individuals.

I don't say that because I think Brownlee's or Gregor's opinions are so much more valuable than other peoples, although I would consider them positive contributors to the discussions, but more on point as an Oilers fan I simply can't get enough real info on the team. On the occcassions that they share what they know through their team access I truly appreciate it.

Anyways and more importantly, what I want to know is what the effects of plagerizing has on Penner's even strength pts/60 while playing the second period of an away game during the month on January is?

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#12 Ender the Dragon
February 23 2009, 03:04PM
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@ Travis Dakin: @ Jack "FMNF" Bauer:

Well said, both.

@ Deep Oil: In the spirit of not hating, I hereby formally apologize to Deep Oil for making fun of him. While I can't understand a quarter of what he says and disagree with most of the rest, I still get the impression that he probably knows something about the NHL and is passionate about hockey and the Oilers. That should be enough for me to keep the commentary impersonal and centered on the issues, not on the individual making the statements. Sorry, D.O.

It only stretches so far, though. Hard to stay impersonal when W.T. or T.W. or whatever he's referring to himself in the third person as today is . . . [bites lip] . . . But . . . no hating. I'll try . . . [grinds teeth] . . . no hating.

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#13 Travis Dakin
February 23 2009, 03:07PM
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And by the way.... That picture with the baby holding the baby is freaking me the hell out. Seriously. Wow.

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#14 Milli
February 23 2009, 03:09PM
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Nation, I love you, my first read in the morning, check the site like 99 times a day.....I don't know how I'd waste my day without you.....Let me know where them haters be, and I'll make em myBTCH!!!!!!!

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#15 Wanye Gretz
February 23 2009, 03:17PM
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@ Travis Dakin:

For the record I wasn't actually referring to mc79hockey folk. They seem reasonable enough though I haven't spoken to either of them directly.

Baby holding baby - so weird. And even weirder that it comes up when you google disappointment.

@ everyone :

For the other record I think we are VERY lucky to have Brownlee and Gregor on here writing, as well as Willis and JSBM of course. I seriously know 15x what I used to know about hockey. That was very little before, so 15x 'very little' equals 'a bit' but it is a step in the right direction.

If they left it would be me and Willis. We would have to send JSBM down to RX1 dressed as custodians in the hope they could trick MacT into giving them a quote. Then where would we be?

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#16 jeanshorts
February 23 2009, 03:23PM
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I love how people are so quick to get on their internet high horse and piss on people about stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with them. So what, you read an article you thought was plagerized. Stop reading stuff from the author from now on. Pretty simple.

But I guess when no woman will touch you, you have to take your anger out on someone.

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#17 Dennis
February 23 2009, 03:25PM
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I might go back and forth with Gregor over his love of Rick Rypien but the whole idea of whether he cribbed that promotional piece isn't a battle I've dug in my heels on.

My lone comment was because I thought Gregor was rather arrogant about blogs in his interview with Staples but then he goes and either rips something off or perhaps just makes a mistake. My only question how would be act if it was something being cribbed From him or not properly attributed To him.

I thought that was a fair question.

Now, if Joanne Ireland or Jim Matheson was a guest blogger on this site, I would ask them the same question that I ask of Brownlee: why is it that no one ever questions Lowe's contributions to our history of not making the playoffs. It's either that people are afraid of the big dog of they think he's done a good job. So, I've put that same question to Brownlee and he refuses to say if he thinks Lowe's done a good job or not; if he had an opinion, the direction of that conversation would've swung a long time ago.

The thing that shocks me - and really shocked me into taking a challenging approach - is how posters here don't react to being put down and/or told that their opinions are wrong.

I respect the fact that guys like Jason and Robin are trained reporters and know how to collect news and fashion them into stories but that doesn't make their opinion anymore valid than mine or yours. I don't see any Bill James' around here but he wrote a heck of a lot of what has now been fashioned into baseball doctrine from a house in Kansas. He didn't have to go to Yankee stadium to know what Mickey Rivers stealing bases meant and you don't have to go interview Ethan Moreau to know he's been taking dumb penalties for years and that he's now making enough money to the point where he can't perform to or above that contract.

And the fact that you'll let guys delete comments means they aren't interested in a fair discourse and it also means it bothers them when people question them.

Which means they probably shouldn't read any sites other than the ones they can control.

In closing, I've never attacked Brownlee personally and I've never threatened violence; I've only questioned why he writes or doesn't write what he writes. I don't think that's worthy of censorship but, hey, it's your playground and you can let anybody you want dictate the rules therein.

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#18 Milli
February 23 2009, 03:34PM
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And, for the record, I now listen to Gregor almost daily, love the insight he and Brownlee can give, as well as how they comment back on our comments. I really don't know where else you can get. And the immaturity, well, come on, isn't that what it's all about? Talk some hockey, have some fun.....NATION ROCKSSS!!!!!!!

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#19 shakey
February 23 2009, 03:43PM
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@ Ender the Dragon: Ender, Deep Oil scares the hell out of me with his really insightful comments one moment to his absolute crazy-dude-on-the-corner-yelling-at-the-stop-sign ramblings the next. He does sound like he knows a thing or two about a lot of not-so-public Oilers info and that's interesting. I can say, if there was a beer to be had with someone from this site, Deep Oil would be a guy I'd sit down with just to see if he's a dude in the know or a dude that yells at stop signs.

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#20 Cam
February 23 2009, 03:59PM
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OilersNation... you guys rock. And I don't just mean the bloggers here, but I mean the fans everywhere.

My buddy and I decided to go on a road trip to cheer on our beloved Oil. We picked Phoenix and flew down there to cheer them on. We were feeling pretty cool and special, but we totally noticed that the plane was full of people wearing Oiler gear.

Then we get to the game and there is all the people milling around the little commercial centre they have around the Jobing.com arena, and most of them were in Oilers Jerseys. That's RIGHT!!!

So we get to our seats, and are marvelling at the amount of Oilers fans, and when the anthems get sung, guess which one was louder! Oh Canada. Now I knew I was in the twilight zone. My beloved Oil rewarded me with a victory, and we got to hear the huge cheer when our team scored three times!!!

There are not many things that make a guy feel more awesome than a home away from home like that. Golf in February isn't a bad thing either though.

You haters take a few happy pills and be happy to be part of the magic if/when the Oilers make another run. there are few places on Earth better to be than when Edmonton is in a playoff run, and that time will come - hopefully sooner rather than later.

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#21 Chris
February 23 2009, 04:03PM
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Deep Oil assertions:

1) Kstz is heavily leveraged (Broke) 2) The new building is in jeopardy and will be financed with personal seat liscences. 3) Souray wants out.

If these things are true, the Oilers are in trouble. A new building, and rich owner is what will sustain NHL hockey in Edmonton for years to come. An awesome downtown entertainment complex with an attached practice facility and 5 star hotel will help to draw free agents... UFA's are getting younger every year, and for many of them, Edmonton is remembered only as a poor road trip destination. When in Edmonton, visiting teams should stay in the lap of luxary; walking from an incredible room with river views via the skyway through a revitalized downtown core to the most beautiful state of the art arena on the planet. They should leave the arena, soundly defeated, to observe Oiler Fans celebrating on a hip hand happening Jasper Avenue. After convenient access to a high quality dinner, future UFA's should leave the city with an appetite to return.

It's my sincere hope that Deep Oil is full of sh!T... Or hockey will not survive here.

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#22 Robin B
February 23 2009, 04:05PM
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Dennis wrote:

And the fact that you’ll let guys delete comments means they aren’t interested in a fair discourse and it also means it bothers them when people question them.

This is "fair discourse?" "There are still a lot of stories to write on the '07 Oilers and some of them wouldn't even have to be puff pieces. That's probably not allowed in Oilerville mind you but Brownlee would've been better off writing a piece about how much JFJ misses his dog back in Quebec rather than raising the pen to defend a highly paid local who just isn't doing the job. I'd give my left nut to cover the Oilers or any NHL team for that matter and at the end of the day I'd still have one testicle left. That'd still be probably one more than Brownlee currently posseses. posted by Dennis-IOF at 12/14/2006 12:08:00 PM

Dennis wrote:

In closing, I’ve never attacked Brownlee personally

Dec. 18: "Anyway, RB and I will be at loggerheads and that’s cool with me. I took the initial shot when I said he’s been kissing Lowe’s can for lo these last 8 seasons and that wounds the big fella so he comes back with a whining allegation. And I’m sure I make the occasional whine:) and I’m certainly sure that Brownlee continues to pucker up!:)"

Or . . . Jan. 22: "RB: You are right. I don’t have a clue because I don’t get to kiss butt in the bowels of Rexall. I am sorry."

Or . . . January 22 2009, 7:26 pm: "RB: You have been assuming the position for years so your advice on this matter would be invaluable!"

You've been taking potshots at me for over two years -- I won't bore people here by posting all of them -- that fall well outside "questioning" what I write, so please spare us the reasoned response now. You've made it personal since day one. There is nothing more personal to me than having somebody like you question my integrity and willingness to do a thorough job. You want to write that I don't have the balls to take Lowe to task? You want to call me an ass-kisser? Go ahead. But you're going to have to do it someplace else. Your ongoing attempts to embarrass and ridicule Gregor and I aren't going to be entertained here. Don't like it? Go someplace else.

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#23 Wanye Gretz
February 23 2009, 04:10PM
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@ Dennis:

As I stated above I was not referring to you guys at mc79hockey personally but rather to the dozen or so commenters who come on here and stir it up past the point of reason IMO.

The intention in turning control over to the authors is not to have some sort of Orwellian control over the conversation here. If you go to a really busy blog site - take yahoo finance for example - you will see that they engage in little to no control over comments. The amount of spam commentary, needless hating and sheer volume of comments make many sites an unreadable mess. Comments on this site are often better than the story and as we go forward protecting that is a key goal.

Ultimately I realize that I cannot promise you we won't edit the crap out of the commentary and have you believe me. I can only ask that you come back from time to time and see how the site continues to operate.

If you guys or anyone else feel that there is too much censorship on here and that you aren't being heard you can always email me directly to discuss it:

wanyegretz@gmail.com

This site was started to ask the hard questions and encourage a higher level of free speech. I think we have the same goals Dennis, we are just on slightly different teams.

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#24 Cam
February 23 2009, 04:18PM
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Wanye Gretz wrote:

This site was started to ask the hard questions and encourage a higher level of free speech. I think we have the same goals Dennis, we are just on slightly different teams.

Free Speech is only valuable if you are able to hear it above the racket caused by the voices of the ignorant.

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#25 Chris
February 23 2009, 04:36PM
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Cam wrote:

Free Speech is only valuable if you are able to hear it above the racket caused by the voices of the ignorant.

In the past it was muy belief that free speech should be absolute. However, the other day, I downloaded and printed a simple innocuous recipe for Yorkshire Pudding and noticed a message from HotEroticLady#69 had been attached at the bottom of the page... Conclusion: some censorship is required; unless you really want to spend time with HotEroticLady#69.

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#26 Ender the Dragon
February 23 2009, 04:53PM
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shakey wrote:

I can say, if there was a beer to be had with someone from this site, Deep Oil would be a guy I’d sit down with just to see if he’s a dude in the know or a dude that yells at stop signs.

He'd probably be in my top 5, for much the same reasons.

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#27 Tyler
February 23 2009, 05:08PM
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This is apparently the source of the bad blood, for those who are wondering.

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#28 Robin B
February 23 2009, 05:30PM
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@ Tyler: The source? Maybe the start.

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#29 Word
February 23 2009, 07:04PM
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Just to be sure - I'm Team Brownlee on this one... but If I'm reading Dennis' post correctly it sounds like this whole thing can be put to bed if Robbie B put pen to pad and said what he thought about the job Kevin Lowe has done.

Now, I'm a bigger fan of the Nation than I am a reader (sometimes the unconsensual coitus of full time employment takes up my day), and RB may have already voiced his position sufficiently, however... would it be so hard to say:

a) Kevin Lowe is a bum; b) Kevin Lowe is the cat's pyjamas; c) Kevin Lowe is doing a good enough job; or d) Stating how I think Kevin Lowe is doing would be hazardous to my career.

I don't think (d) is really that far off. And is that really so inappropriate??? It would be a shame if an organization lorded over the media to the point that they can't express particular opinions, but maybe that's the difference between a blogger and a journalist: privilege comes with a price.

We can all sing a chorus of misunderstanding and call our song "free speech", but the Oilers are, after all, a private organization. If you invite me to dinner and I tell your neighbours that your meatloaf tasted like moosecock and your wife looks like she likes the taste of your meatloaf, well, you probably won't invite me back for taco night.

Guys like Brownlee and Gregor get to go into the Oiler's kitchen. They can tell us that Kevin Lowe made a meatloaf out of moosecock, but they have to be smart enough not to say how bad it tasted... They need to be invited back. The rest of y'all bloggers can rant away about the taste, but always remember that without the Brownlees and the Gregors you wouldn't know shit from shine about the piss poor ingredients you're being fed each game.

So, Dennis, I dig your posts. And as a pal I recommend you save the left testicle you were so ready to give up in 2006. Lets be honest, you would probably write one glorious article up to the highest standard of opinionated honesty. And then your editor would cut it... And you would have your press pass revoked by the Spoilers... And you'd be back bloggin' sans ball a mere half the man you used be.

Bleed Blue. Bleed Copper. FMNF. Word.

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#30 Bruno
February 23 2009, 07:35PM
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Word wrote:

Kevin Lowe made a meatloaf out of moosecock

Thats Hilarious!! Is the Meat Loaf the Team and the "Moose cock" the roster ? I will never look at meat loaf the same....

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#31 Big Dave Semenko
February 23 2009, 07:49PM
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*looks at Aubrey O’Day playboy sitting on desk at Nation HQ, shakes fist at cover*

Is that line Freudian or just hilarious?

FMNF

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#32 Robin B
February 23 2009, 08:29PM
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@ Word: Now, that's a well-written post. I think anybody who has followed the Oilers knows I've written a fair amount of stuff that's critical of Lowe since he became GM in 2000. As for an overview of where I think Lowe stands now, or should stand, based on his performance as GM, here's an excerpt from a column I wrote in Metro Edmonton Jan. 11.

"BILL OF GOODS? The focus on the Oilers shortcomings has been on the players and the way MacTavish has used them, but let's not forget the bigger picture. While Kevin Lowe has stepped back from day-to-day dealings since being named president of hockey operations, leaving Steve Tambellini to take over as GM, this is the team he built. Every player on the roster, with the exception of Ethan Moreau, arrived after Lowe took over as GM June 9, 2000. The collection of players here has been drafted on Lowe's watch, traded for or acquired by Lowe and signed to contracts with him calling the shots. With optimism abounding in pre-season, we were led to believe Tambellini was being handed the keys to a shiny new sports car and that fans were in for quite a ride. Instead, it looks like Tambellini's got a clunker in need of a full-scale rebuild. That falls on Lowe."

While that doesn't qualify as the scathing dissection some fans might like, it hardly qualifies as a look-the-other-way take or a ringing endorsement. If the Oilers miss the playoffs, I think Lowe should be on the unemployment line right beside MacTavish.

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#33 Matt
February 23 2009, 08:43PM
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oh good, we're right on schedule for another spirited debate about....ourselves. Honestly, the MSM guys that write blogs spend so much time defending themselves that its embarassing. It annoys me to see them be tactful and acting exactly how they're expected to act - professionally - while others see no reason to respond in a manner which affords them the respect they bestow onto others with their answers.

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#34 Jack "FMNF" Bauer
February 23 2009, 09:38PM
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I dont know whats more creepy, that picture, or the fact that Robin keeps records of what people on the internet say about him.

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#35 W.T.
February 23 2009, 10:00PM
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W.T. agrees with the facts and facts only. This is the team KLowe built and he should and must be held accountable. Only one problem, to date he has not been, and that needs to change. W.T. was at the Glenn Anderson retirement game and KLowe said a few words. Was it not only a short time ago when Ryan(Airbag) Smyth was traded and it was Mark M. retirement game. Did KLowe step up that night? Nope, W.T. remembers him hiding that night. What does that say about the MAN. W.T. suggests it wasn't MacT's vault he had to play Toby Peterson on the power play. KLowe, for the Oilers to get back to Oiler hockey, you must go.

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#36 Adam Dyck
February 23 2009, 10:48PM
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I'm neither a hockey blogger nor a professional journalist. However, I do write for a political website called ThePolitic in my free time. And honestly, I wouldn't put up with the amount of abuse that the real journalists here do, and they've earned their stripes.

The rest of us are just cranks with a keyboard.

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#37 David S
February 23 2009, 11:00PM
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"W.T." aside, the problem with guys like Dennis isn't that their opinion is necessarily off base so much as it's old and bordering on pointless. He and his crew were beating the "MSM is the Oilers lackey" drum two years ago. There may or may not be some merit to that idea, but to keep harping on it when the MSM has responded more than once is just childish. Grow up man.

I've seen Tambellini asked the exact questions Dennis talks about. He slips them like a seasoned politician. So there's guys out there that think those questions should just keep being asked - the same way they harass any MSM they can contact - again and again and again.

Difference is, bloggers have nothing to lose. No job, no credibility, no access, no "face". And there's certainly no consequences. They're on a self-congratulatory crusade with no downside. So they stay on it like a Jehovah's witness. No amount of reason or reality seems to sway their stance. In my opinion, this taints their own work, which BTW is excellent. And I'm saying this as a guy who drops by their sites almost every day.

So let's stop beating dead horses and drop the personal agendas. It's not cool and you're not modern day hockey e-evangelists. If you think you can do any better, get a press pass and we'll see how far you make it. But I'm sure you already know how that would go.

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#38 Robin B
February 23 2009, 11:22PM
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David S wrote:

I’ve seen Tambellini asked the exact questions Dennis talks about. He slips them like a seasoned politician. So there’s guys out there that think those questions should just keep being asked - the same way they harass any MSM they can contact - again and again and again. Difference is, bloggers have nothing to lose. No job, no credibility, no access, no “face”. And there’s certainly no consequences. They’re on a self-congratulatory crusade with no downside.

Truth.

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#39 Dennis
February 23 2009, 11:30PM
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Robin: Considering that you're still up and still have your finger on the button:) would you mind censoring the part where David talked about Jehovah’s Witnesses?

I know you'll delete this before anyone sees it but if Wayne's giving you the power to censor things that make you feel bad:), the least you can do is also censor posts that could honestly hurt people who firmly believe in their religion.

If you're gonna be Big Brother, the least you could do is actually use your powers for good:)

And for perhaps the two people who get to read this:), it's fine and dandy for Robin to say "that's on Lowe" after the guy's been in power for so many years and it looks like he's on his way to another year out of the playoffs. but where was he when lowe said he didn't know the cap was going up or when lowe said that in '07 we had cap room to pick up a dman and then he didn't do it? or perhaps when he said smyth was too old to sign longterm but then he made the same move for souray? or to remind everyone what a bullet we missed when nylander's wife decided she didn't want to come to edmonton?

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#40 Dennis
February 23 2009, 11:32PM
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David: I have no agenda other than hoping things get asked and wondered about just like they do in real media markets. perhaps it's fine for some that reporters in edm only break out the whip for Penner but I'd personally like to see more how's and why's.

I don't think I'm on any kind of crusade as much as I am in a constant state of wonderment about why certain things never change.

do you ever wish something would change? did you ever try and change it yourself or ask about why it doesn't change?

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#41 David S
February 23 2009, 11:43PM
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Dennis wrote:

David: I have no agenda other than hoping things get asked and wondered about just like they do in real media markets. perhaps it’s fine for some that reporters in edm only break out the whip for Penner but I’d personally like to see more how’s and why’s.

I think we got that the first 200 times around Dennis.

Don Quixote was a book. Not a way of life.

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#42 442Junkie
February 23 2009, 11:44PM
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Is it wrong of me to want to talk cars with Mr. Brownlee? It's not the least bit related to his job but, he is quite passionate about them. It's a lot like how we are with the Oilers; we love them to bits and want to know as much about them as possible. Were RB given the chance to talk to say Lee Iacocca he wouldn't really want to ask; why he ran Chrysler into the ground in the eighties? I'm sure he'd rather ask; where he got the idea for the Falcon with a sporty body? (Mustang for those of you who aren't car guys.) In a sense the "haters" are asking the prior to Brownlee and Gregor. I've read where RB was asked to ask a question of someone in the Oilers organization and he's actually done it and posted the response for all to see. I'm not saying they can't take constructive criticism and we should all bow to their word but, you don't get that kind of personal response from a professional online, unless you have a credit card.

p.s. I'm the guy races his minivan at Castrol Raceway. Bloggers are like me in that sense; we may never turn pro but, it's sure fun to do.

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#43 treblecharger
February 23 2009, 11:51PM
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Just got home, so I'm a little late jumping in here, but my two cents: 1. We are goddamn lucky to have Brownlee & Gregor writing for the Nation...have you READ some of the other teams' fan sites? I have way more respect for these guys, because they do this, than I do for the syncophants in the local rags. If anybody thinks RB is a KLow apologist has not listened to him on the radio. 2. Maybe having to sign up to post would make it easier to keep the clowns out? Easy deletion and all.... just sayin'. 3. Wanye is so effin funny that even if the hot shots weren't writing here I would still come for his stuff...milk-out-the-nose funny. Dude is so brilliant I find myself thinking about a setup and gag he wrote hours later. L'il man-crush goin' on here. 4. W.T. and anybody making references to themselves in the 3rd person creeps me out. He reminds me of that guy "The Warrior" that used to call the sports radio all the time. And, ya know, guys who seem to be "in the know" should establish some cred first, dontcha think? 5. I wonder: if I had coffee with Deep Oil would he be wearing his tin foil hat? Or would the meds be kickin' in? 6. I wish Amber would post more. There is nothing hotter than a smart chick talking about the Oil AND being killer funny. *sigh* 7. I go watch games at a bar on the Northside that has great 20 cent wings, cheap beer and hot waitresses...and no Wi-Fi, so I have never been around for a full JL meeting. Looking forward to it. 8. I check The Nation first thing in the morning and frequently during the day. I am so grateful for all you guys that write and post here. I'm the kind of guy that checks TSN.com first thing on, like, Aug. 4 to see if there's any Oiler news. 9. Cole, Roli and Goat Boy should be dealt with now. If Cole doesn't wanna be here, deal him. If Roli will re-sign, (for 2m/1 year) do it, if not, trade him. JD has to prove he belongs here, now is as good a time as any, I figure. Sign a goalie in the off-season. Same with Grebs. I wish Cole would stay, though. 10. If Tambo can get a top 30 scoring forward I'm also ok with 3 of the following going the other way: Gags, Cogs, Mini-magic, Poo, FFF, Laddy, Steady Steve, Chopper, 2nd rounder. Brule is ready to play, and I think with Fernie back and another Springfield guy stepping up, (Schremp, anyone?), well....now is as good a time as any. 11. I am not adverse to the return of Marty Reasoner. MacT is gonna be here until the season ends, KLow will never gas him, so we may as well have a player he can coach. 12. Like the bumper sticker on my old '72 Datsun B210, my two favourite teams are the Edmonton Oilers and whoever plays the Calgary Flames. Really.

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#44 Tyler
February 24 2009, 12:23AM
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Re: the tough questions. As Dennis points out above, there are tons of examples. I differ from Dennis in that I think that Robin is one of the good local media (although I don't know how he concluded that Lupul was working hard and just needed a centre when the guy was actively avoiding taking hits in Edmonton and I think Dennis secretly does too) but the profitability of the Oilers falls right in that list. The EIG had a soft ride here for years. There were a bunch of us who figured that they had to be profitable by 2003-04 and were subsequently shown to be correct. Meanwhile during the lockout, you have Terry Jones writing about how the day that the season was cancelled was a good day for Edmonton. I wonder if, when the Oilers owners made a nice capital gain on their investment, he wondered, just for a second, whether there was maybe just the slightest bit more to the lockout than saving hockey for the children of Edmonton.

They were spinning insane justifications when they were trying to resist Katz. The location agreement is a perfect example. They were asking why Katz wasn't willing to sign a location agreement, a bunch of the blogosphere was screaming "Didn't the EIG's location agreement run out in 2004?" and it took some time (as well as some stories about how Katz wouldn't sign a location agreement) before someone in the MSM got around to asking. The coverage of that whole thing was just beyond appalling - I mean Terry Jones was getting quotes wrong in a way that completely changed their meaning and then using them to support his conspiracy theory that made no sense anyway. But yeah, by all means, it's worth him doing what he needs to do to maintain access because his stories make so much more sense with access.

Matheson and Jones are summoned for the Lowedown on Smyth after Lowe couldn't get anyone except a few hours of Nylander in UFA 2007, Lowe says that they had no idea that the cap was going to rise and there's apparently no questioning about how they didn't know this three months before UFA season, when ticket sale numbers were getting published in the paper. It's absurd.

Like I've said before, I don't think that a lot of this reflects on Robin because he's IMO, more of a journalist than an opinion guy. Dennis and I differ on that point. The guys like Jones and Matheson - who blew the waiver rules on the Jagr issue, BTW, they're the ones who really drive me nuts.

Difference is, bloggers have nothing to lose. No job, no credibility, no access, no “face”. And there’s certainly no consequences. They’re on a self-congratulatory crusade with no downside.

Dan Barnes seemed to kill everyone on the sale of the Oilers and write critically about the team without losing his job, credibility, access or face.

Generally, I don't buy it. Guys like Strachan have no problems asking difficult questions and reporting things that will make people uncomfortable. Sure, maybe it got a little hot when Kevin Lowe went on the radio and called him a liar but who looked like an asshole a week later (alright, maybe it was Strachan, but not because he had the story wrong). He was one of the few MSM guys during the lockout willing to take a skeptical look at things.

Meanwhile the Edmonton Sun is busy editing references to the sycophantic Edmonton media out of his columns before they run it. (True story.)

Just curious Robin - and I recognize that these things need to be asked when they happen ie. the Smyth story is dead and buried at this point - but if someone had said when it happened - "Ted Nolan is saying that the Isles were peddling that package of players to everyone in the league. How satisfied are you that this was the best you could do for Smyth?" that he's going to get fired? Lose credibility? Lose access? (Incidentally the Isles ex-PR guy seems to think that the Oil could have done better)

Robin and I have been down this road and he's explained to me that they're providing content for the newspaper, they need to get their quotes to fill out the stories etc. I've got no problem with that. I question the value of access though, when that access is used to fill out stories with "Well, we came out hard, had a bit of a letdown and then Roli bailed us out." As for losing credibility - if a guy is asking legitimate questions and has a reasonable position, I don't see how he's going to lose credibility. If someone had taken the position when Smyth got traded that the Oilers looked to have spent all of their money by October (and that was the obvious conclusion after Moreau got signed, and subsequently proven correct when Lowe started talking about the cap), it would have been a reasonable position.

I tend to think that, at the end of the day, the guys with access are balancing how much shit they need to go through to do their jobs with writing what they think and asking tougher questions. There's a subtle difference between writing what you don't believe and not writing what you do believe and an awful lot of them seem to avail themselves of it. I don't really blame them as much as I used to for just getting the quotes and filling the space but at the same time, I'm not going to be overly deferential to a guy with access when he checks his critical thinking skills and willingness to push awkward points on the Oilers in order to maintain that access in a low friction sort of a way.

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#45 Fiveandagame
February 24 2009, 12:35AM
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@ Dennis: Since when is it the job of the media to be the judge jury and executioner when it comes to job analysis of Oiler executives? They don't hire them, they can't fire them. Their job is to report on the team.

Editorial coverage is something all together different. And seriously, how many articles could you write about how MacTavish seems to make retarded line combinations game in and game out, and how many times to you have to say you don't agree with the recent trade Kevin Lowe made? Or that you think his tenure as GM has been a failure?

Seriously. Both MacT and Kevin Lowe have been here a long time, and if you think for a second that the MSM are in charge of who's hired and fired you're sadly mistaken. RB and JG report on the team, their players and the games. To do nothing but harp on the coach and GM would be a gross negligence of their job for 99.9% of their readership.

They report on the team and what the team is, they aren't arm chair GM's enacting their own fantasies in their pieces.

You want angry scathing articles about the ridiculous farce you believe the Oilers front office is, then write them your self.

Get over it.

This site is great as you get an idea of what these two journalists really think of the team, and the game as a whole, with the wealth of their knowledge of the game and the inside information they're privy too.

You want them to post and bitch about management, I don't. We all see them for what they are. But more important than that, I care about the team and the games. You think our guys behind the Oilers curtain are so bad, look around the league.

Thank you to Mr. Brownlee and Mr. Gregor for continuing to post your articles and open up debate on the best team in the universe.

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#46 Fiveandagame
February 24 2009, 12:37AM
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Oh and Flames suck

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#47 Tyler
February 24 2009, 12:53AM
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Also, I don't know why but I feel compelled to respond to Wanye up top:

You’re serious right? Jason Gregor – actual big time journalist that makes appearances daily on radio, internet and even national TV – is going run the risk of being busted plagiarizing on an article about minor league baseball promotions as a pretext to give away his own Oilers tickets?

Bigger journalists than Jason Gregor have done worse things in bigger forums. His reaction to the whole thing was bizarre. The post goes up at 10AM on Feb. 13.

At about 5PM, Gregor writes:

I should state that none of those ideas where mine. Apparently someone thinks I was trying to take credit for them. I researched those on the web and took the ideas from a few different sites. I copied and pasted them and then took out some words that didn’t add to the general idea. Here is one of the links… http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/baseball/mlb/07/30/minors.promotions/ Once again I never claimed these were my ideas…and should of included a link, but these ideas were all from a team’s website originally that have been copied and pasted many times over. Nothing here about the editing mixup - in fact there's an express statement that the statements have been copied and pasted many times over, which seems to imply that he doesn't think he needs to use quotes. He goes on to accuse the SI writer of plagiarism at 6:30 PM on V-Day:
Dennis, never once did I take those promotion ideas and claim they were mine. The writer from si.com actually took the words from press releases from the teams themselves, so they weren’t his original ideas either. Did he quote the press release? No.
Now, if you read the story on CNN/SI, this seems exceedingly unlikely to be true. If you read what Gregor wrote, the only conclusion to draw is that he thinks the cut and paste is ok. He went on to add:
Never once in this post did I make a reference that these were my ideas, or that I was the first to report on them. I use my own ideas for stories, and in this case I guess I could have quoted the sites I got them from, but the sites weren’t the original origin of the story to begin with.
The only reasonable conclusion to draw from the bolded part is that he didn't quote the site. But 10 minutes later, he writes:
Plagiarize by definition is this. Take and use the thoughts, writing, of another as your own. If you notice the font of the promotions is different font than my actual words. It was in GREY to seperate that they weren’t my words. I have never used someone else’s ideas and CLAIMED them as my own.
This is a bit misleading, because the quotes weren't in grey initially, which is what led to the whole thing. It also seemingly directly contradicts his statement 10 minutes earlier in which he said "I guess I could have quoted the sites I got them from." Having heard the whole story now, I suspect he means "cite" not "quote". I'm not a Professional Reporter, trained in the Art of Disseminating Information but I'm surprised he was so sloppy with his language. On Feb. 15, he says:
I could send you the original email that I sent to Bingofuel. It has different font, size and shading. The only thing different now is the link to the article. That doesn’t excuse the error, but it does show that I was never once trying to take credit for the promotional ideas.
This is an actual defence, although it means that he wrote a story in which he included quotes without indicating the source of those quotes. Again, I'm not a Professional Reporter, but, and any of the actual Professional Writers here can correct me if I'm wrong, putting quotes without sources into a story is generally considered at the least, very bad writing. Bingofuel popped into the comment thread and took the bullet, explained that he screwed up. Wanye (who apparently learned of this a few days later in a thread when Dennis made a crack of it) now says that he's responsible for the screwup. Whatever. At the very least, it's a pretty bizarre series of events. It seems weird that Gregor didn't just say the quotes were screwed up initially but instead defended the practice. It seems weird that he argued with Mike as if the thing was properly quoted orginally. It seems weird that he'd write a post in which he includes direct quotes without indicating the sources of those quotes. Now there are apparently two people who screwed it up (assuming bingofuel and Wanye are different people). Like I said in the original thread, I take Gregor at his word when he said the editor screwed up. I can't emphasize that enough. With that said, I would expect the professional media to be a hell of a lot more careful in citing their sources, particularly when they're directly quoting something. Maybe I'm wrong about the standards that the papers apply; I'm sure some of the real media here can tell me. Maybe Scott Taylor's around? I don't think labelling people who initially thought it was plagiarism as haters is all that reasonable though, given the series of events outlined above and, as far as I know, the whole thing was a dead issue until today when Wanye brought it up again. I'm not really sure why it was brought back up again, but it's not like people were out of line pointing it out initially and the initial explanations really just made things worse.
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#48 Bruno
February 24 2009, 06:53AM
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Fiveandagame wrote:

Oh and Flames suck

Go to the Shamesnation site and see what I started there. after TLC comments on the game. Its the Rick Flare Blogg. And yes the Flames are poo poo pants.

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#49 Robin B
February 24 2009, 07:39AM
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@ 442Junkie: I'd argue the combustion engine is the greatest invention ever.

As for your van, that's cool. One of the many vehicles my pals and I raced at Mission and in Kent (SIR) was a beat up 68 Dodge Van with a transplanted 413 Wedge with the factory crossram on it out of an old Saratoga. The mill didn't fit in the doghouse and the driver and passgener had to lean outward against the doors or get baked.

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#50 Rick
February 24 2009, 09:34AM
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W.T. wrote:

Did KLowe step up that night? Nope, W.T. remembers him hiding that night. What does that say about the MAN.

Not that I really want to encourage you but you used this example the other day as well.

There is a lot of stuff to critisize Lowe for but in this instance what it says about the guy is that he recognized that Messier night was about...well you know...Messier.

If he goes to center ice in order for the fans to let him have it then he basically ruins what was supposed to be a celebration for one of the greatest Oilers of all time.

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