The Rush to Judgement

Jonathan Willis
August 11 2009 06:30AM

 

The hockey world is roundly condemning Patrick Kane after reports that he and his cousin had been charged with assaulting a cab driver and depriving him of his fare. Some of that condemnation has occurred on this website.

Jason Gregor:

Patrick Kane you are a cheap ass idiot! …. I’m sorry there is no defence for what he and his chicken-ass cousin James allegedly did to a Buffalo cab driver this past weekend. The Kanes have been charged with felony robbery and misdemeanour counts of theft and criminal mischief. All of this allegedly stemmed from the cabbie not having 20 cents in change. 20 cents? Really that’s what these two tight-asses were upset about? The original fare was $13.80 and the cabbie supposedly only had a dollar in change. Being that much of a tight-ass is just as embarrassing as allegedly beating up a 62-year-old cab driver.

Baron Wanye Von Gretz IV:

If there is any truth to this business involving Patrick Kane over the weekend then he seriously needs to be beaten within an inch of his life by someone who has the ability to get through to him…. Beating up a cabbie? What a douche.

Of course, it isn’t really surprising. The hockey world is almost bereft of news by August (trust me on that) and this is a big story, involving a recognized star (EA Sports’ cover boy this year) doing something that (if true) is obviously way out of line. There are literally hundreds of articles out there as NHL writers across the continent took advantage of Kane’s foolishness and wrote their first easy column in weeks.

Still, let’s back up a second. The publicly available facts are limited; largely based on an initial police report seen by a Buffalo sportswriter, and on public comments from the cap driver, Jan Radecki.

Don’t get me wrong – if the initial reports are correct, Kane deserves most of the flack he’s getting, and most of the people criticizing him realize it (Wanye prefaces his comments with “if there’s any truth” and Jason Gregor uses the word “allegedly” three times in two paragraphs) but that isn’t what will be remembered. Kane has already been judged and found guilty by public opinion.

There are some things worth remembering here – the first of which is that Kane probably didn’t do it because he’s just that cheap. From today’s Chicago Tribune (g/t Second City Hockey):

During Kane's rookie season in 2007, the then 18-year-old was with his Hawks teammates in Detroit for a game against the Red Wings. I was staying in the same hotel as the team and a few hours before game time jumped into a cab and asked the driver to take me to Joe Louis Arena. After hearing my destination, the driver told me he'd just had a Hawks player in the cab and mentioned what a great guy the player was and that he had given the driver $50 for a $10 cab ride. He then showed me the autograph the player had given him and it read: "Show me the money! (signed) Patrick Kane" Irony aside, this certainly doesn't absolve Kane of any wrong-doing in Sunday's incident, but in my mind should help put to rest the notion that the altercation was because Kane, who as a rookie wasn't yet making millions of dollars but still gave the driver in Detroit a $40 tip, was too cheap to pay Radecki or tip him or that Kane disrespects working men and women such as cab drivers.

Another item worth noting is the public statements made by Radecki’s attorney, Andrew LoTempio (a rather prominent Buffalo-area lawyer and former judge):

"It's pretty much been blown out of proportion. It's a dispute over the cab fee and unfortunately Mr. Radecki didn't recognize Mr. Kane and just thought they were a couple of college kids. "Some of the cab drivers here have a policy of not unlocking the doors until they get paid because they get beat on their fees by the college kids and that just kind of blew up." … LoTempio added that he believed the charges would "absolutely not" rise to the level of a felony, calling it a "regular kid incident." The lawyer also said, "I think we should be able to work things out" with Kane.

None of this absolves Kane, but the issue is probably more about Kane and his cousin getting locked in the cab than it is about the twenty cents in change they were supposedly refused. Radecki’s initial comments seem damning, but then again if I’d been wronged (and it seems pretty clear he was) by someone like Kane I know that I’d have to fight the impulse to exaggerate the incident; perhaps Radecki had a similar impulse.

Naturally, we’ll likely never know – if for no other reason than LoTempio’s comments seem aimed at quieting the story. I can only guess at the reason, but it seems pretty clear-cut: a nice out-of-court settlement for his client.

Lastly, it isn’t like Kane has pled guilty. Kane really hasn’t said anything yet, but his attorney entered a not-guilty plea and made the following statement:

"Obviously he's upset that he would be accused of something like this," Cambria said. "He hasn't committed a crime, and I think the evidence is going to demonstrate that."

Patrick Kane will pay for his mistake – whatever the true extent of it - and his reputation likely won’t recover. Probably it’s deserved. But as far as I’m concerned, the critics making absolute statements without anything more than a superficial knowledge of the facts - which is all any of us have at this point - are moving too quickly.

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#101 DeepOil
August 11 2009, 12:53PM
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@ Dave:

Unlawful confinement article http://www.suntimes.com/sports/hockey/blackhawks/1709235,patrick-kane-legal-issues-10.article

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#102 oilersinsider
August 11 2009, 12:54PM
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I would have at first said this cabbie needs a different lawyer. If I'm pursuing a lawsuit, the last thing I want my lawyer to do is downplay it. I mean, his job is to get me the best possible outcome for his client which means vilifying Patrick Kane if need be.

Then the no license and drunken driving records along with the locking the cab comes out and who knows, maybe this lawyer has decided that should it go to court, no one escapes without a handslap.

A quick pay day is probably all they are out for at this point. They'll probably get it regardless of who is to blame.

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#103 kingsblade
August 11 2009, 12:55PM
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Travis Dakin wrote:

kingsblade wrote: think what you are missing is that a lawyer does not make decisions for his client. He must fall in line with his clients wishes. To make a statement counter to his clients wishes would be very very bad for the lawyer No what I am seeing is that he rushed to tell reports his side of the story and since then he has been “advised” by council that its probably not the best course of action to persue the matter. It’s a possibility and just a different perspective. I’d put money down that there wont be a “settlement” made. Just a hunch.

Not likely. We are talking about the American Justice system here.

Tell me why he would have a lawyer under retainer otherwise? One of the fist things you get taught as a lawyer is not to act without a retainer. If he had been advised not to pursue the matter there would not be any lawyer making any statements whatsoever.

Unless you are suggesting that the cab driver is paying a lawyer to make statements just to try and avoid embarrassment.

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#104 DeepOil
August 11 2009, 12:56PM
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Taxi Driver - Pissed Off In Chicago (YOU TUBE) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2lvXVUrkn0

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#105 The Fish
August 11 2009, 12:58PM
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@ Dave: Little larger scale there Dave.

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#106 socaldave
August 11 2009, 12:58PM
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Godwin's Law to be invoked in 5... 4... 3... lol

it's gonna happen, I guarantee it!

I appreciate that there are some strong feelings on both sides here, but... come on... we should all be able to agree that there's some pretty poor judgment involved if ANYBODY takes a swing at a senior citizen. Sure, there's two sides, but the fact it turned violent indicates some poor decision making along the way, no?

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#107 Travis Dakin
August 11 2009, 12:59PM
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kingsblade wrote:

Unless you are suggesting that the cab driver is paying a lawyer to make statements just to try and avoid embarrassment.

Could be.... He did the interview with that reporter a few hours after it happened and now he wont answer questions and the lawyer is doing all the talking for him. American justice system is right, "holy sh*t a pro athlete? I have a chance to really push this and make some money so I don't have to drive this cab anymore!!!" there is always another side.

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#108 Travis Dakin
August 11 2009, 01:01PM
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socaldave wrote:

I appreciate that there are some strong feelings on both sides here, but… come on… we should all be able to agree that there’s some pretty poor judgment involved if ANYBODY takes a swing at a senior citizen. Sure, there’s two sides, but the fact it turned violent indicates some poor decision making along the way, no?

Every body is saying that! The point of the devil's advocate postition is to say that it is not as cut and dry as "Kane got mad because he didn't get his 20cents back so he just started wailing on a defencless old man."

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#109 kingsblade
August 11 2009, 01:01PM
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Travis Dakin wrote:

American justice system is right, “holy sh*t a pro athlete? I have a chance to really push this and make some money so I don’t have to drive this cab anymore!!!” there is always another side.

I'm confused. You seem like you want to argue with me but this statement agrees with me completely.

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#110 kingsblade
August 11 2009, 01:04PM
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Travis Dakin wrote:

socaldave wrote: I appreciate that there are some strong feelings on both sides here, but… come on… we should all be able to agree that there’s some pretty poor judgment involved if ANYBODY takes a swing at a senior citizen. Sure, there’s two sides, but the fact it turned violent indicates some poor decision making along the way, no? Every body is saying that! The point of the devil’s advocate postition is to say that it is not as cut and dry as “Kane got mad because he didn’t get his 20cents back so he just started wailing on a defencless old man.”

I love how socaldave believes we think that the old man deserved a beating. I have yet to see that written anywhere, have you?

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#111 The Fish
August 11 2009, 01:06PM
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That old man deserved a beating.

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#112 Travis Dakin
August 11 2009, 01:09PM
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@ kingsblade: I do agree with you. I was just pointing out that just because the lawyer is playing it down does not mean they are trying to go for a settlement of money or something. I'm trying to tell you that I know that a lawyer has to go for the throat if the client wants to but I do also know that a lawyer could advise against a lawsuit due to lack of a case. I'm trying to say that perhaps the cabbie jumped the gun with his accusations imediatley after the incident and saw delusions a financial windfall and when he got his lawyer involved, they may have decided against such an aggressive pursuit of the case. Hence lack of comments now. And lastly I am trying to say that I think your view is more than likely the correct reason behind the downplaying. I was just saying there could be other reasons.

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#113 Chris.
August 11 2009, 01:10PM
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kingsblade wrote:

It should also be mentioned that it is illegal to lock someone in a car. Why does nobody care about that?

I agree. Kane jokes aside... isn't this unlawful confinement? I'm a tad claustrophobic and at twice Kane's age, and completely sober, would have a tough time maintaining personal control if I was sealed up in the back of a smelly car.

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#114 socaldave
August 11 2009, 01:11PM
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oh come on fellas - I'm not saying anyone is happy he got beaten up!! There are just - for my liking, anyway - too many people playing the "let's see what happens when the whole story comes out".

We're all smart enough to know that however this whole thing shakes out, Kane's a jackass who's moral compass went a little haywire.

Maybe he's a good guy, maybe he's really a punk - I don't know and I don't care. Anyone, regardless of age, who gets into this kind of situation needs to give their head a shake.

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#115 Travis Dakin
August 11 2009, 01:12PM
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The Fish wrote:

That old man deserved a beating

That guy was a prick anyway. He would always fart when he had someone in the cab and then lock the windows and doors. He'd drive you the long way to wherever you were going and he'd intentionally make annoying small talk when you were clearly busy reading. Friggin jerk.

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#116 The Fish
August 11 2009, 01:13PM
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Chris. wrote:

isn’t this unlawful confinement?

Wow.

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#117 Travis Dakin
August 11 2009, 01:14PM
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socaldave wrote:

Anyone, regardless of age, who gets into this kind of situation needs to give their head a shake.

uh..... Chris. wrote:

Kane jokes aside… isn’t this unlawful confinement? I’m a tad claustrophobic and at twice Kane’s age, and completely sober, would have a tough time maintaining personal control if I was sealed up in the back of a smelly car.

what he said.

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#118 DeepOil
August 11 2009, 01:20PM
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@ The Fish: Yes - as posted on page 2 of this discussion http://www.suntimes.com/sports/hockey/blackhawks/1709235,patrick-kane-legal-issues-10.article

Full Video of Cabbie http://www.cltv.com/videobeta/watch/?watch=338252f4-df64-4b4f-a0f0-eeb01448b0f1&src=front

Partial Newscast with Commentaryhttp://www.fromtherink.com/ (scroll half way down the page)

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#119 Travis Dakin
August 11 2009, 01:30PM
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Paul Kelley at Sportsnet has a good piece about it too.

hxxp://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/08/11/kelley_patrick_kane/

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#120 Chris.
August 11 2009, 01:40PM
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@ Travis Dakin: @ The Fish:

I'm not saying the old man deserved a beating. I'm not saying I'd beat a cab driver for locking me up. However, I AM saying that being confined, against my will in a tight space is particularly terrifying to ME. I knew a guy who had the peculiar hangup of being afraid to handle foam... like the liner in a pelican case... would come up swinging if you tried to touch him with some. People have phobia's. Whatever. I don't care if Kane is guilty or innocent of any real crime: I'm gonna heckle him good in November.

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#121 The Fish
August 11 2009, 01:46PM
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@ Chris.: I wasn't attacking you personally, Chris and I know people have phobias. All I was saying is that to say that is "unlawful confinement" might be taking it a little far. Cabbies do this all the time to young drunk people because they regularly get stiffed.

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#122 kris
August 11 2009, 02:08PM
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Sorry Jonathon, but what you're saying doesn't really make sense.

You admit that what Kane did was very wrong, even if the cabby was being a jerk or if the cabby locked the doors. And that you can't imagine any evidence that would clear Kane. There isn't any possibility of that happening.

Yet you think we should wait before we start 'clobbering' him. ??? Wait for what? Some piece of evidence that couldn't possibly excuse Kane's actions.

If the cab driver was at fault, or if there's some possible evidence that could show he was at least partly at fault, I'd agree that we shouldn't rush to judgement, but this is open and shut.

Clobber away.

If the Kid comes out and apologizes, does something nice for the community, maybe speak about violence, and pays off the cabby, I'll forgive him. But until then, his actions deserve strong condemnation.

If you're just saying we shouldn't delve into rumor mongering about other things Kane might've done, fair enough.

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#123 Hemmertime
August 11 2009, 02:10PM
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I wouldnt stand for being locked in the back of a cab and treated like crap. "He thought they were a couple of college kids" is bullcrap, I would have been "f*ck you, you lock me in the back of this cab because you think I will shortchange/not pay you, and then YOU don't have proper change to give me back ...". Got I hope that cabbie doesn't get a good settlement.

With his lawyers downplaying me thinks Mr. Kane's lawyer had a talk with him that included the words Libel, Slander, and Defamation of Character. What costs more? Lying about Kane and hurting his sponsorships or a slap on the wrist for Kane. 1 counter-suit conversation with this type of loose details case and I'd be sh*tting bricks.

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#124 The Fish
August 11 2009, 02:18PM
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Hemmertime wrote:

“He thought they were a couple of college kids” is bullcrap, I would have been “f*ck you, you lock me in the back of this cab because you think I will shortchange/not pay you

That has probably happened to every cabbie in every city. It happens so often in this city that alot of cabs will ask for the cash up front after a certain time of night. Not from me of course because I'm a fancy gentleman.

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#125 ChiliChunk
August 11 2009, 02:32PM
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The Fish wrote:

Not from me of course because I’m a fancy gentleman

You mean if I start wearing my top hat and monocle not only will I get all the ladies (you don't think Mr. Peanut gets some action with that getup - you bet he does) I will also get better treatment from the cabbies? cool...

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#126 Word
August 11 2009, 02:44PM
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I don't care what happened as long as it culminated in Kane slurring, "Do you even know who I am? I'm Patrick f@&king Kane."

Although, if Kane cried when his Coach got fired, he probably also cried in the back of the squad car. I can see it now: A slurring AND bawling, "Do you even *sniffle* know who I, a-am? I'm P-Patrick *sniffle* f@&king Kane."

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#127 GSC
August 11 2009, 02:52PM
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this calls for the "Jump to Conclusions" mat...

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#128 Jonathan Willis
August 11 2009, 03:07PM
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@ kris:

Just because I can't think of an excuse doesn't mean there isn't one.

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#129 Downright Fierce
August 11 2009, 03:07PM
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Whoa, whoa, whoa... So Kane is getting his 20 cents back, right?

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#130 Librarian Mike
August 11 2009, 03:23PM
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Downright Fierce wrote:

Whoa, whoa, whoa… So Kane is getting his 20 cents back, right?

I heard it was actually more...

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUU9UmT134M

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#131 GLoKz0r
August 11 2009, 03:27PM
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Hemmertime wrote:

I wouldnt stand for being locked in the back of a cab and treated like crap.

Nor would I... or almost any reasonable person.

The difference is that while I wouldn't stand for it, "punch senior citizen" would not be on my list of possible solutions to the problem. A call to the police, reporting the cabbie's number to the cab company, harsh words with the cabbie himself, negotiating with the cabbie himself.

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#132 Downright Fierce
August 11 2009, 03:37PM
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GLoKz0r wrote:

“punch senior citizen” would not be on my list of possible solutions to the problem

Maybe it was like being stuck in a text adventure and Kane was just trying to ACTION every OBJECT in the CAB in order to find a solution?

He must have forgot he had a 2.625 million dollar contract in his INVENTORY.

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#133 Thorn
August 11 2009, 03:37PM
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"...unfortunately Mr. Radecki didn't recognize Mr. Kane..." Is it me or does Mr. Radecki's lawer insinuate that NHL players are to be held in a different regard than a college medical student or a janitor? This guy must've been snoozin' during "Common Sense 101" in law school! I don't believe in passing judgment before due process, but I've heard both sides say there was an altercation, I listened to the police statement saying charges are being laid against the Kane boys and I watched the video of an irate cabbie who had obviously been smacked around. Now all of a sudden the cabbie's side has changed it's tune? Will anyone be surprised when the momentum of this story dies off the second the cheque clears?

Justice in it's truest form!

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#134 GLoKz0r
August 11 2009, 03:43PM
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Argh, got distracted and hit "Post Comment" before I was actually done.

Anyhow, there's an absolute laundry list of possible reactions to having a cabbie lock me in his cab that don't involve violence. Violence is something that should be reserved for the extreme. Being locked in a cab for a few minutes is not an extreme, it's an inconvenience... a petty annoyance.

Honestly, it really doesn't matter what facts unfold on this case, unless those facts begin with something like "The cabbie punched one of the Kane's first" or "the cabbie was behaving in an unusually threatening matter" (ie, threatening death, wielding a weapon, calling someone on a phone to come rough up a couple punks he has locked in his cab) then I really don't see how I could feel anything but contempt for Kane and his cousin.

Acting violently is barbarism at its finest, glorified by tough guys who think it's the right way to solve any dispute. Acting violently towards a senior citizen is cowardly barbarism.

Whatever verbal abuse Kane takes for this, it isn't enough.

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#135 Jason Gregor
August 11 2009, 03:48PM
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Travis Dakin wrote:

Because he said they did it? I have news for you pal, I am currently sporting a black eye and it didn’t come from a punch but I could very easily go and tell the police that my boss did it. Will you believe me? Give me a break man, you are making yourself sound totally ridiculous right now.

Yes Travis, the cabbie made up the entire story. He actually punched himself and went to the cops. The cops believed it and charged Kane. Give your head a shake if you think the cops will charge someone just because someone said they hit them. You could go to the cops and say it was your boss, but you'd need some actual proof. I'm not sure if you bumped your head and your eye, because normally your comments make lots of sense, but to think the cops didn't look into the accusations before charging the Kanes isn't bright.

Dave wrote:

I’ll check your show out this afternoon like I always do and if you bring this up you are going to lambasted(sp) by the callers.

Dave, we will have an American lawyer on at 4:40 today. Many cabs will lock the door before they get paid. If you don't plan on running why would you be upset. If it is rampant problem amongst college students, is that really that insulting.

Feel free to call in we can debate it.

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#136 Chris.
August 11 2009, 04:03PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

If you don’t plan on running why would you be upset.

I'd never run on a tab... AND being trapped anywhere makes me upset. The one thing I'm going to take away from this discussion; is that from now on: I'm sitting in the FRONT during any cab ride, with my cash in plain view.

@ Jason Gregor:

I dare you to ask Horcoff how much he tips HIS cabbies.

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#137 GLoKz0r
August 11 2009, 04:05PM
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Chris. wrote:

@ Jason Gregor: I dare you to ask Horcoff how much he tips HIS cabbies.

LMFAO

I second this request!

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#138 joe
August 11 2009, 04:13PM
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@ kris: First I really don't think Kane has done much wrong to Oiler faithful. This is something that needs to be dealt with in Buffalo and Chicago.

As to something that could clear him. Cabbie took the first punch.

Regardless, give this a week or two and no one will be talking about this.

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#139 Jason Gregor
August 11 2009, 04:36PM
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Chris. wrote:

I’d never run on a tab… AND being trapped anywhere makes me upset. The one thing I’m going to take away from this discussion; is that from now on: I’m sitting in the FRONT during any cab ride, with my cash in plain view.

IF you pay before you get out, then how do you get trapped. How many of you get out of the cab before you pay??? Most pull out their money and then get out.

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#140 Travis Dakin
August 11 2009, 04:53PM
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Chris. wrote:

I AM saying that being confined, against my will in a tight space is particularly terrifying to ME.

As it is to me too. I'd be freaking out hard at WHOMEVER thought it was a good idea to lock me up.

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#141 Travis Dakin
August 11 2009, 04:58PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Yes Travis, the cabbie made up the entire story. He actually punched himself and went to the cops. The cops believed it and charged Kane. Give your head a shake if you think the cops will charge someone just because someone said they hit them.

I never said any of that happened. I even said that what did happen was more than likely what everone is saying has happened. All I am saying is that you can't condemn someone based on only snippets of information and one side of a story, no matter what the claim. I honestly can't see how anyone can argue that.

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#142 kingsblade
August 11 2009, 05:28PM
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The Fish wrote:

Cabbies do this all the time to young drunk people because they regularly get stiffed.

That does not come close to making it legal or proper.

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#143 kingsblade
August 11 2009, 05:39PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Many cabs will lock the door before they get paid. If you don’t plan on running why would you be upset. If it is rampant problem amongst college students, is that really that insulting.

Cab drivers have ZERO business locking you in the car. NONE. Allowing this gives cab drivers excessive control they have no right to. What if a cabbie decides to lie about how much you gave him and extort money for your release? What if a cabbie decides he doesn't like you and wants to make you late for an appointment? There is no excuse for locking you in a car, and I don't care if it's common practice. A lot of improper acts are common practice.

All that being said, this does not excuse a violent response either.

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#144 kris
August 11 2009, 05:41PM
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Jonathon:

Imagine a nightmare scenario: You walk home. You find a man standing there holding a bloody knife. You see him continually stabbing your 62 year old mother.

Do you say, Let's not jump to conclusions and rush to judgment about this? The man deserves his day in court. I can't imagine any possible justification for this behavior, but there may be some justification I can't imagine.

I mean, there are some far out, almost unimaginable explanations, where the man doing the stabbing isn't guilty of doing anything wrong. (Maybe your mother tried to kill him. Maybe she had turned into a zombie.)

There are also alot of things you could discover that wouldn't justify the violence, e.g. she had locked the killer in the house and he was very claustrophobic, etc.

It's a more extreme case of violence, but exactly analagous.

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#145 kingsblade
August 11 2009, 05:45PM
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Travis Dakin wrote:

I was just pointing out that just because the lawyer is playing it down does not mean they are trying to go for a settlement of money or something. I’m trying to tell you that I know that a lawyer has to go for the throat if the client wants to but I do also know that a lawyer could advise against a lawsuit due to lack of a case.

I'm trying to explain to you that there is essentially ZERO motivation for a lawyer to play it down other than seeking a settlement. If he had advised against a lawsuit he would not be making press statements without a retainer, and I have a very hard time imagining someone paying a retainer for a lawyer to do nothing.

What exactly is the lawyer's motivation in your mind then? What possible reason does he have for playing it down? He has none without a possible settlement.

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#146 Travis Dakin
August 11 2009, 05:54PM
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kingsblade wrote:

What exactly is the lawyer’s motivation in your mind then? What possible reason does he have for playing it down? He has none without a possible settlement.

Not making himself and his client look like a fool against a real high powered lawyer who will rip the case apart? I don't know. I see your perspective though.

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#147 oilFan
August 11 2009, 05:55PM
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He beat a 60 year old man up ! Who cares what the man does for a living ? Its retarded to even need more facts. Here is the straight facts Under age drinking Assult

I will stay awy from the robbery charge. Willis you agree with beating a 60yr old man up ? You have no right to assult anyone no matter what its a crime plain and simple. He will get off on this anyway, but that doesn't make it right. Use your head

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#148 Gunner
August 11 2009, 06:00PM
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@ Travis Dakin: @ kingsblade: Did you guys listen to Gregors show when the lawyer was on? From the sounds of it, the police were not overly sold on what the cab driver told them. So much so that they didn't even sign the document in relation to pressing charges (cannot remember what the lawyer called it), the cab driver did. This is going nowhere. Next..

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#149 Travis Dakin
August 11 2009, 06:03PM
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oilFan wrote:

He beat a 60 year old man up !

He did? you were there? how do you know this? Interesting perspective. It's better to stay quiet and have everyone think you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Lets hope you are never accused of something and have the judgement made before you can defend yourself.

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#150 Travis Dakin
August 11 2009, 06:04PM
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@ Gunner: Nah man, I'm in McMurray so I rarely catch the show but thanks for posting that. People should feel completely stupid for over reacting to one persons side of a story.

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