Postgame: Brutal

Pat Steinberg
October 30 2010 11:37PM

Calgary Flames' Mark Giordano (L) is sent flying by Washington Capitals' David Steckel during the first period of their NHL hockey game in Calgary, Alberta, October 30, 2010. REUTERS/Todd Korol (CANADA - Tags: SPORT ICE HOCKEY)

Due to a very, very long locker room session and a long wait to hear from the Head Coach of the Calgary Flames, I'll be unable to put a full post up following Calgary's 7-2 debacle of a loss at the hands of the Washington Capitals.  I'll put one up later, but I figured discussion needs to start now, especially when the night goes like that.

Coach Sutter called the first period of this game as one of the best they've played all season in terms of how they want to play.  It went from a good opening frame, to an absolutely awful second period where six goals were scored and the team absolutely collapsed.  Not only did the team collapse, but the Flames quit, and this game snowballed out of control.

There's really no excuse for what happened in that final 40 minutes, regardless of what team they were playing.  It's three straight games where Calgary got away from playing good, smart hockey...and it's three straight games where the results were pretty clear as to why that can't happen.  It just so happened on this night, the result was shockingly lopsided.

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Pat Steinberg can be heard daily on the Fan960 in Calgary at can be read at the FAN 960. Born and raised in Calgary, Steinberg considers himself a huge fan of all sports including the CFL, MMA and 13 round bare knuckle boxing matches. Follow Steinberg on Twitter at www.twitter.com/Fan960Steinberg.
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#1 mooseol1
October 30 2010, 11:42PM
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Wow, not a pretty game. A little work on the defense might be in order. Not that the Oil have anything to brag about.

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#2 Caramellow
October 31 2010, 12:46AM
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From seeing this game, you can tell Iggy is either too lazy on the ice, or he is not buying into the system. In nowadays and with his speed, how many times is he skating around in opposition's blue line waiting for the breakout pass 150 feet away from him, and when he got the pass, he'll just either dump it or lose it. It's hard to find, but I think either we find another coach like Mike Babcock that is able to coach star players, or we need to find a better sniper that can hit the net.

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#3 Dono
October 31 2010, 12:52AM
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Too bad about this game, well like I say load up for the next one. Overall flames are still around Mid pack.

As for the silly doomsayer saying inconstancy for this team, I say look at the win and loss record for the flames at NHL.com and see their record form 1998-2010 and the flames are fairly consistent. Below are their record:

1998-2010 Win Loss 26 41 30 40 31 36 27 36 32 35 29 36 42 30 46 25 43 29 42 30 46 30 40 32

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#4 SmellOfVictory
October 31 2010, 12:54AM
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I really do not understand why the hell Iginla constantly decides to get into the zone and then stop up along the boards, ten feet inside the blueline. He either loses the puck while waiting for someone to join him, or he tries to pass and it gets cut off by a defender. Worst tactic ever.

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#5 Dany Calgary
October 31 2010, 02:37AM
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Well,

I wanted to see the Washington Capitals and they did what they do best: entertain us.

Now the Flames are what they are, inconsistent. It is frustrating to see that this team is stil plagued with the same problems they had last year.

This feels like deja vue all over again....

What do we know about this team?

Well, we know that no matter who the coach is the messages being passed on to the players does not seem to be understood or executed.

We know that Kipper will play his ass off game in and game out and that might be the only player we know who will do that.

Clearly there is a problem between the head coach and some players and most notably with #12.

Solution you ask? Easy: Something has to give!

Changing the coach will not do anything!

Time for a blockbuster trade that can bring some youth to this team and shake the foundation at the "Core" of this team.

The Season is not over or lost just yet but, by game #20 I have a feeling that we will be talking about the same thing, which means that something has to change.....

Dany Calgary

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#6 Bruins
October 31 2010, 08:04AM
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It's going to be a long season. Nothing much has changed.

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#7 Flipnip
October 31 2010, 08:10AM
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Well I can't say I watched the whole thing as I was doing movie night with my kids but I did watch the first 2 periods. Talk about Jekyl and Hyde. It seems as though this team is unable to get to the middle ground of playing defensive hockey and maintaining a good offensive attack. They are always at the extremes of excessive defensive hockey at the cost of offence or vice versa. Since ability isn't the issue (we have seen them do it before), I question the leadership. If teams falter during the game, it is up to the leaders to put them back on track. Iggy and Reggie used to do that, they don't anymore. There was a time when the Flames actually got mad about being embarrassed. It seems like they spend more time thinking of ways to say "sorry about that mess of a game" than just speaking the truth that they have become complacent and don't have the drive anymore to play more than one or two periods. You would think that pride would make them put in a full effort every game but the results speak for themselves. Give me the old, less talented teams of 2002 to 2004 that worked their asses off every shift every game anyday over this more talented version. At least they showed some pride. That said.... GO FLAMES GO!!!!!!

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#8 Gange
October 31 2010, 08:41AM
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The three periods in one word each:

Great Abysmal Blah

It's not shocking to see the same results as last year really. In the end I see this as absolving the coach and vilifying the GM.

I say this because when the team plays, puts effort in, skates hard, they are a smothering forechecking and pretty impressive team. That is the coaching staff. It's been that way for the last 4 head coaches to different degrees.

Why does this vilify the GM? As I see it the current squad is basically the same as the squad last year that suffered the same problems. They seem fragile. No grand design seems to be coming together to make it better. The additions to this team have not improved the result. I hold the GM office responsible for the intangible as unfair as that might be.

As for Jarome, maybe it is time. Maybe he needs a change of scenery for the remainder of his current contract? Maybe that would give him a new lease on his hockey life. As my favourite player for the past many years it's hard to see him struggle like he is and as goes Jarome so do the flames.

Last nights embarrassment is another in a list of things that they'll have to think about. Did anything really change or is this just this year's version of a 9 goal route by a better team that puts it all in perspective?

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#9 OilFan
October 31 2010, 09:13AM
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Great game. Not the result I wanted sorry guys I was hoping for 10 lol . Kipper has let in 17 goals in the last 3 games squeeeeeeee

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#10 Rain Dogs
October 31 2010, 09:55AM
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Who wants to talk about breakouts? For example on the back-breaking 4th goal by Mike Green.

RO?

You were advocating guys at centre before the puck left the zone weren't you?

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#11 VK63
October 31 2010, 11:15AM
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Well... it didnt transpire exactly as I thought. OVs team won the cherry picker cup but both of the captains couldnt handle the bomb pass last night.

I confess to feeling sorry for you Pat... that after game call in session was painful.. especially that douche Caps fan dismissing the train wreck as Caps are that much better.

There must be a large forehead shaped dint in your desk from the astounding amount of "wtf" moments you have to endure.

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#12 B
October 31 2010, 01:33PM
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...this comment is not because of the Flames big loss last night. But they need to trade J-Bo. His cap hit is too high and the Flames need more fire power up front. I like J-Bo's game, but in my opinion, I wouldn't pay any d-man 6 or 7 million. You need to pay your star d-men well, but leave you big contracts for snipers.

...Regher, Gio, Sarich, and White are a pretty balanced d-core that can eat big minutes. With the new contract of Gio, White up for UFA this summer, and the Flames cap situation, J-Bo is the obvious choice to be traded.

...to what team and for whom J-Bo should be traded is pure speculation. Considering Sutter's gravitation towards Finish players, maybe a trade to Carolina not exclusively involving Tuomo Ruttu would be a solution.

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#13 coptin_
October 31 2010, 01:36PM
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I THINK IT IS TIME TO MAKE SOME TRADES IF POSSIBLE BUT I WOULD NOT WANT DUTTER TO BE THE ONE DOING IT. THE LAST GOOD THING H DID WAS GET CAMILARI,UT THEN HE LET HIM WALK AWAY ANYHOW? WE NEED A GM THAT KNOWS CURRENT PLAYERS WITH POTENTIAL.I THOUGHT YZERMAN WOULD OF BEEN PERFECT BUT OWNERSHIP MESSED UP THAT ONE.I HAVEN'T BEEN A HUGE FAN OF PIERE MCGUIRE BUT I THINK HE KNOWS GOOD PLAYERS OR POTNTIAL GOOD PLAYERS

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#14 VK63
October 31 2010, 01:49PM
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@B

That cap hit and his no trade clause make him impossible to move. Your time will be better spent praying for an improvement in his play as hes not going anywhere. Perhaps a Mike Peca voodoo doll full of pins would help. Ha!

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#15 B
October 31 2010, 02:02PM
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@VK63

...players have been known to waive their no-trade clause. It's on my Christmas wish list :)

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#16 SmellOfVictory
October 31 2010, 02:17PM
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@VK63

The NTC could be an issue but I don't think the cap hit is. There are a few teams who could use a #1 dman, even at 7 mil

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#17 Luc
October 31 2010, 03:10PM
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trade iggy for some young talent and picks....

maybe to dallas for Benn or Neal and couple picks....... mostly just to free up cap space and add offensive depth.

trade jbouw for either some serious up front talent or perhaps a temp. replacement and some young prospects....

what im getting at is that i beleive with langkow (IMO) likely to retire soon and with our two biggest contracts off the books we could make a serious play in the free agent market come 2011.

signing for example any of the following...

SEMIN

RICHARDS

THORTON

BERGERON

with plenty of second and third teir players as well such as Fleichmann, Kopecky, Moulson, and Backes. This team could be competitve quite quickly if we played our cards right over this year and deal our assets while still fairly high value.

AND NOT FOR PEANUTS LIKE PHANEUF.

The defense this summer is aging but still competitive.

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#18 Big Cap
October 31 2010, 06:19PM
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Hire another "Dutter"!

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#19 dave
October 31 2010, 06:35PM
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I believe Iginlas days in Cowtown are numbered. He's not the right guy for Sutter's system. He's too soft, too lazy, and doesnt compete. When everyone says the best way to shut Iginla down is to leave him alone, and not to poke the sleeping giant, I think thats bogus. A player shouldnt rely on his OPPONENTS to motivate him. Brent Sutter seems to have to pump him up for every game, and thats just sad. Hes your captain, and he should be able to push back against other teams. A think a change of scenery will be best for him, and I believe he'll be sent to Pittsburgh in the off-season for J. Staal, a first rounder, and a prospect.

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#20 rod blogojevich
October 31 2010, 07:12PM
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A Halloween special in the comment section here- scary to think that some of these escapees from the lunatic asylum are walking the streets and reading our blogs!

Luc- "Thorton" re-signed with the Sharks for three years. Bergeron was recently awarded with a long term deal in Boston. The only person who hasn't been locked up is yourself- the loony bin is trying their best, though! TerryC: Pierre McGuire? AHHHHHHH!

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#21 B
October 31 2010, 07:21PM
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@dave

...I think the Pens would be crazy to trade Staal, a first rounder, and a prospect for Iginla.

...I don't think Iggy, or Regher and Kipper for that matter, are going anywhere.

...it looks like Staios and Langkow are done, putting the Flames under the cap when Moss and Kotalik return. Look for Backlund to be sent down to the farm when they come back from injury.

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#22 VK63
October 31 2010, 07:59PM
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@dave

Young studs (especially big centers) with bright futures are rarely disposed of for "his best days are behind him".

Jarome is playing poorly while being paid large money, that shortens the list of suitors to those teams that have similarly under achieving assets or the true believer sect who think he is their missing piece. If the league wide consensus is he can't play to that contract number he too is going to be tough to move for pieces of high enough quality to build around. Someones gotta hire that Milbury guy again..... He was like the free space in bingo or a mulligan very useful in these situations.

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#23 dotfras
October 31 2010, 08:30PM
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Pierre MaGuire would be such a win. That guy is a comedic genius.

Having J. Staal from Pit for Iggy would be great, but that wouldn't help us at all offensively.

Jokinen is signed for 2 years & Tanguay for 1, I think Sutter got that one backwards.

I think we're gona be able to regroup though, Moss is a heart & soul player who'll be back soon, I think Backlund heads back to the A before Meyer, fully based on role & position, unfortunately enough I think Lanks is gonna retire.

I think line combinations like this might work. Glencross Stajan Bourque Tanguay Moss Iginla Hagman Morrison Jokinen Jackman Conroy Meyer

Iggy needs a reality check, he is no longer our best player, nowhere even close. Bourque & Glenny can handle the heavies, 2nd line can carry Iggy & a strong 3rd line will strive, Conroy's line is great, the only complete line as of right now.

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#24 dotfras
October 31 2010, 08:31PM
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Like you saw in the Olympics, a guy like Crosby can make Iggy shine.

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#25 SmellOfVictory
October 31 2010, 08:55PM
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@dotfras

You don't think the 3rd line is complete? I think it's been the best on the team.

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#26 Rich Staal
October 31 2010, 11:24PM
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I think the real problem is these guys aren't playing like they're capable of for 60 minutes. Look how they they started the last 3 games got off to leads and then they relaxed thinking it was gonna be easy. If they play like that in todays NHL they will not win to many games. Unless these guys are past their time (Iggy, Jokienen,) if it weren't for kipper we would be lucky to have a win this year.

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#27 Robinrussia
October 31 2010, 11:54PM
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Too bad we were not in the same place as the oil. They at least are on the way up while we have no where to go but down.

I want to start the official dive for 5 campaign now!

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#28 CitizenFlame
November 01 2010, 12:19AM
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Luc wrote:

trade iggy for some young talent and picks....

maybe to dallas for Benn or Neal and couple picks....... mostly just to free up cap space and add offensive depth.

trade jbouw for either some serious up front talent or perhaps a temp. replacement and some young prospects....

what im getting at is that i beleive with langkow (IMO) likely to retire soon and with our two biggest contracts off the books we could make a serious play in the free agent market come 2011.

signing for example any of the following...

SEMIN

RICHARDS

THORTON

BERGERON

with plenty of second and third teir players as well such as Fleichmann, Kopecky, Moulson, and Backes. This team could be competitve quite quickly if we played our cards right over this year and deal our assets while still fairly high value.

AND NOT FOR PEANUTS LIKE PHANEUF.

The defense this summer is aging but still competitive.

Have you been watching the Flames this year? Do you think their most pressing need is to get scoring depth? The scoring depth is what has carried this team so far. What has failed them is the ability of the "best players" to out gun the opposing teams "best players". It's not even about chances at this point (I don't have the numbers in front of me but I think the top line has at least been treading water in EVSC%) but they need to start converting. What Calgary lacks is a true top end sniper.

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#29 CitizenFlame
November 01 2010, 12:40AM
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Its sad to see that we're 11 games in and already hitting the trade everyone-blow up the team mode.

For all those people calling for Iginla to Pittsburgh trade, take a look at Pittsburgh's cap space... next year they have 15 players locked up and only $6,872,501 in cap space. Meaning they would have to ship salary back to Calgary. If they were to send Staal to Calgary, the Flames would be the ones packaging a draft pick and prospect, not the other way around. While Staal would do wonders for carrying the mail against the heavies he would not add to Calgary's top end scoring and the Flames would have just sent away they're top scorer. If Iggy goes anywhere, maybe LA is in the cards, since they didn't get Kovie.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Tanguay and think that he is outplaying his current salary but Sutter made a mistake by thinking he needed to bring in a set up guy for Iggy. He needed to bring in a top end sniper. Look at the year Cammy was here. Cammeleri had 39 goals while Iginla had 35 goals and 54(?) assists. Iggy is far underrated as a playmaker, and with another sniper out there teams couldn't just concentrate on shutting down Iggy.

I love Bourque but he is not that player. He is not the heir apparent or torch bearer, or what ever you want to call it. He is great powerforward and creates tonnes of chances but he has done so mostly as a second line winger, not the key guy that other teams will focus on. He is a core guy and a 25-30 goal scorer.

The Flames need to make a trade for a sniper. Preferably someone in the 25-28 age group that is trending towards 40-50 goals not another 20 goal scorer. And they need to find a center who can play the heavies. Stajan, Olli, Backlund (at least right now), are not the group who can do this.

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#30 icedawg_42
November 01 2010, 07:25AM
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Was anyone else involved in the "coaching day in Alberta"? the reason I ask is because after watching both teams' game day skate, I knew not to bother watching the game.

The Capitals were ALL business, and looked sofa king talented. It was unbelievable. I know it was an optional for the Flames, but wow - talk about night and day.

As far as consistency, it seems that the Flames lay one or two REAL stinkers like this early every year then bounce back for several games. Im having serious deja vu here!

I still think Iggy is capable of huge numbers, and I do not subscribe to the Trade Iggy point of view - but by trolling the far blue line he is doing himself an extreme disservice - he can NEVER enter the zone with any speed, and he has literally zero options. How many times have we seen him take the puck about 3 feet into the zone, come to a dead stop and have to try to find someone coming in at speed. Instead of taking the puck at the near blue or even red line, breaking up the wall with speed and driving the net! I just dont know if his heart is really in Calgary any more - I hate to say that.

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#31 Luc
November 01 2010, 09:38AM
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CitizenFlame wrote:

Have you been watching the Flames this year? Do you think their most pressing need is to get scoring depth? The scoring depth is what has carried this team so far. What has failed them is the ability of the "best players" to out gun the opposing teams "best players". It's not even about chances at this point (I don't have the numbers in front of me but I think the top line has at least been treading water in EVSC%) but they need to start converting. What Calgary lacks is a true top end sniper.

that is what i was saying.....

(i realized after some more research that some of these guys have been signed, so my bad. guess i cant rely on the internet hahahaha)

what i meant was that were not trading iggy for any kind of top tier talent. so get some young gunners in here and try to fill the top sniper spot with either a bouwmeester trade or free agency.

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#32 B
November 01 2010, 10:16AM
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...whether Iggy scorers 30, 40, or 50 goals he is still our best goal scorer. Borque is the perfect 2nd line right winger. Tanguay and Hagman are good for our left wingers. I think both Jokinen and Stajan are perfect for a second line role. Maybe we should try Morrison with Tanguay and Iggy? Morrison looks like he has some passion left.

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#33 CitizenFlame
November 01 2010, 10:22AM
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@Luc

But I don't want to see the Flames trade Iggy. I want them to move a defencemen (White or maybe JBo)and get a sniper to remove pressure from Iggy and augment our scoring. I would like the team to try to renegotiate Iginla's contract. See if he would be willing to drop some of his salary over the next two years- say $5mil per instead of $7mil, for maybe another 2-3 years of contract. I know it sounds silly for him to take a pay cut for the next two seasons, but if he is serious about a cup run, and truely loves it in Calgary, then maybe he can be sold on longer term security(while still earning top flight money more in line with his production) and the promise that the money he free's up goes towards bagging another top flight scorer.

That would be my dream.

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#34 jonesin
November 01 2010, 10:26AM
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Does anyone think stripping Iginla of the'C' might wake him up a little??? I'm not sure who you would give it to, no-one really deserves it right now, except maybe Gio

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#35 SmellOfVictory
November 01 2010, 11:49AM
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CitizenFlame wrote:

But I don't want to see the Flames trade Iggy. I want them to move a defencemen (White or maybe JBo)and get a sniper to remove pressure from Iggy and augment our scoring. I would like the team to try to renegotiate Iginla's contract. See if he would be willing to drop some of his salary over the next two years- say $5mil per instead of $7mil, for maybe another 2-3 years of contract. I know it sounds silly for him to take a pay cut for the next two seasons, but if he is serious about a cup run, and truely loves it in Calgary, then maybe he can be sold on longer term security(while still earning top flight money more in line with his production) and the promise that the money he free's up goes towards bagging another top flight scorer.

That would be my dream.

Contact renegotiations are unfortunately not allowed under the current CBA. Otherwise I wouldn't be surprised if it already wouldv'e occurred in Iginla's case.

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#36 Monaertchi
November 01 2010, 12:01PM
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There is more than one way to circumvent the salary cap. Ilya is an example of one way. Jarome is an example of another way. Instead of paying him $9M two seasons ago, and $5M this season, he gets paid $7M each season. Jarome isn't worth $7M now, but Darryl didn't expect him to be. He expected him to be worth $49M over 7 seasons (or 42 over 6, I forget), with the bulk of his value coming in the first several seasons. As such, Jarome's contract becomes increasingly untradeable as time passes.

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#37 PrairieStew
November 01 2010, 12:01PM
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@SmellOfVictory

Plus - Iggy already has long term security - he has 2 more years at $7 million taking him to his 36th birthday. If there is one thing Sutter has done right - it is not to give in to the temptation to sign contracts to guys that take them to late in their 30's or in to their 40's, just to get a little cap relief now. He did it again with Gio the other day - only 5 years - when some other GM might have ponied up an 8 year deal.

I agree on the concept of finding a go to offensive guy that takes the pressure off Jarome - Jokinen is not it - Bourque inconsistent, Hagman too small.

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#38 Luc
November 01 2010, 01:08PM
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Monaertchi wrote:

There is more than one way to circumvent the salary cap. Ilya is an example of one way. Jarome is an example of another way. Instead of paying him $9M two seasons ago, and $5M this season, he gets paid $7M each season. Jarome isn't worth $7M now, but Darryl didn't expect him to be. He expected him to be worth $49M over 7 seasons (or 42 over 6, I forget), with the bulk of his value coming in the first several seasons. As such, Jarome's contract becomes increasingly untradeable as time passes.

exactly my point. we all love him in calgary and he has done everything he can for this team. but were not winning a cup anytime soon i dont think and the least we could do for him is make that a possiblity. his value goes down every year now so it makes this THEE time to trade him for some value!

no??

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#39 dotfras
November 01 2010, 02:24PM
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@Luc

I'm sure last year team's like Philly & Montreal were saying that they weren't gonna win a cup any time soon & look what happened.

Once playoffs hit it truly is a free for all. We have one of the best goaltenders in the league, great defense, and a decent group of forwards who have history of playing well. Iginla isn't going to get traded after 10 sub par performances.

I don't think Iginla gets traded this year, MAYBE next year if at all.

I can see White going at the deadline for a draft pick, I really don't see him getting resigned.

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#40 dotfras
November 01 2010, 02:24PM
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@Luc

I'm sure last year team's like Philly & Montreal were saying that they weren't gonna win a cup any time soon & look what happened.

Once playoffs hit it truly is a free for all. We have one of the best goaltenders in the league, great defense, and a decent group of forwards who have history of playing well. Iginla isn't going to get traded after 10 sub par performances.

I don't think Iginla gets traded this year, MAYBE next year if at all.

I can see White going at the deadline for a draft pick, I really don't see him getting resigned.

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#41 Luc
November 01 2010, 02:33PM
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@dotfras

"Once playoffs hit it truly is a free for all. We have one of the best goaltenders in the league, great defense, and a decent group of forwards who have history of playing well"

ONCE playoffs hit......if we play the right way i have no doubt we can get in the playoffs in a 7 or 8 spot. but if we dont...... were not making it. plain and simple. to many good teams in the league right now.

i can also see white going... but id rather trade j bouw for a top 3 forward.

but i SERIOUSLY doubt either iggy or bouw is going anywhere

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#42 Luc
November 01 2010, 02:43PM
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unfortunately.....i doubt sutter making any type of move involoving big name players especially iggy. to scared of public backlash and his job

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#43 PrairieStew
November 01 2010, 03:10PM
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Luc wrote:

unfortunately.....i doubt sutter making any type of move involoving big name players especially iggy. to scared of public backlash and his job

Because Iggy has almost 3 years left at $7 m, that is asking a team to take on a big liability, hence the return will be low. At this point you would probably get the same assets for Glencross or White ( since their salaries are both lower and shorter) as you would for Iggy and that would not do from a public relations POV. Iggy's trade value will remain constant until the last year of his contract when, even if he is playing even at a 20 goal, 50 point type level, his value will actually increase as Trade deadline 2013 approaches.

Same logic applies to Bouwmeester - he is tied up long term to big dollars and his play is roughly that of someone making half of what he is bringing home. Trade value is therefore nil.

Having said that, I don't think Sutter is afraid to act; it just doesn't make any sense to him yet.

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#44 Section 216
November 01 2010, 03:47PM
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We can all say that we should trade Iggy, But in all honestly what market is their for him. It's clear to me he's not a Top line player at the moment and we can all say "Oh the Kings need a guy like him" but how these teams like the Kings and Hawks got where they are is through youth not taking on older players.

I'm afraid I might die if Iginla leaves. I think the best thing we can do is just wait it out and look we're entering Iginla's best month as well.

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#45 everton fc
November 01 2010, 04:11PM
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@B

"Maybe we should try Morrison with Tanguay and Iggy? Morrison looks like he has some passion left"

This is the sanest idea I have read from this thread.

Or, swap Morrison with Iggy (your idea is better, though!)

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#46 Dave
November 01 2010, 04:18PM
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It's gotta be tough to play in calgary. I know that the players sign up for this but everyone is so hard of them right now. It's well known that players always play their best when they are having fun. I think the main problem is that there isn't an attitude of fun in calgary right now. I think it starts at the top and works it's way down. Both Sutters are hard nosed and serious guys. It can be emotionally draining to be working for a guy like that day in and day out. There has to be a change. The players have to feel wanted and appriciated in order to play relaxed and confident. That isn't there right now. My only solution to fixing the problem is getting a new GM that brings another attitude. Someone that the players WANT to play for. I'm sure the players will tell you right now that they want to play in calgary or play for sutter but I don't believe it. They just look stressed and drained every night (even when they win)

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#48 everton fc
November 01 2010, 04:45PM
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@Dave

Good post.

Calgary is getting like a Toronto or New York, as a sports market. And we are doing it to ourselves. (Potentially I'll take a few on the chin for saying this... but that's how it is) This becomes problematic, as I think we are all experiencing.

It is also why Karlsson scares me. I hope he's a hit, but I think we'd be better served by a goalie like Cujo, or some other veteran who's seen minutes and dealt with the bad press. Auld comes to mind, but is gainfully employed. We continue to go with kids... and get the results we have been getting from our backups. Too much pressure, perhaps?

Brent keeps talking about wanting to have fun. "The players need to feel like they are having fun."

I don't sense they are. That's pretty obvious.

They may want to play here and for the Sutters. I think they do. I like the Sutters, actually. But the approach towards the players seems to drain them of all hope.

Not good leadership.

I don't blame the GM this time. He's not in the locker room between periods, or running practice.

Which makes me wonder about our coaching staff. Lowry, McGill - perhaps they are in over their collective heads?? I understand McGill can be a real drill sergeant...

Funny, but the Flames of old played their guts our for Darryl, didn't they? And he was tough. Rigid. Obstinate, at times. But I wouldn't say he was a downer. Not really.

Brent seems to be a downer. Seems whooped. As does his entire coaching staff. You could see it in Lowry's face Saturday, as well. Whooped.

It has trickled down into the players, methinks...

They should have given Playfair more time.

He's still in the organization...

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#49 Graham
November 01 2010, 04:53PM
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Section 216 wrote:

We can all say that we should trade Iggy, But in all honestly what market is their for him. It's clear to me he's not a Top line player at the moment and we can all say "Oh the Kings need a guy like him" but how these teams like the Kings and Hawks got where they are is through youth not taking on older players.

I'm afraid I might die if Iginla leaves. I think the best thing we can do is just wait it out and look we're entering Iginla's best month as well.

Its all about asset management, think of the return you could have had a couple of seasons ago, vs his current value?

His market value is tanking; poor on the ice performance (last year and this year),lack of scoring, difficult to coach, slow, a defensive liability , he is quickly becoming a true powerless forward...

He still has time to turn this season around, so maybe you try and move him at the deadline and get what you can. (although I expect he will retire a Flame)

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#50 B
November 01 2010, 07:04PM
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@everton fc

...most people seem to have a "lovem or hatem" opinion of the Sutter's. For me it's not that black and white.

...I think they run a sort of Western Canadian old-boys-club from top down. There is little room creativity and little deviation from the party line so-to-speak. This goes hand in hand with the lack of Eastern European representation on the team, because stereo-typically Eastern Europeans players are more individualistic and creative.

...from what I hear Brent works them pretty hard in practice. This goes hand in hand with the image the old-boys-club is trying to project ("farmer-tough attitude"). I think the players may just be burnt out, 82 games is a long haul, you need to pace yourself so you have some juice left for the playoffs.

...when lots of people were calling for the Sutter's heads this past offseason I didn't agree. They had 40 wins and barely missed the playoffs. Sure they aren't the most modern of people. But they have and do produce above average results. If they don't make it this year I'll be more open to the idea. If they don't make it three years in a row I'll be behind the angry mob 100%.

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