Breaking News: Flames trade Brett Sutter and Ian White to CAR

Kent Wilson
November 17 2010 02:13PM

PHILADELPHIA - NOVEMBER 01: Anton Babchuk  of the Carolina Hurricanes skates against the Philadelphia Flyers on November 1, 2010 at the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Flyers defeat the Hurricanes 3-2. (Photo by Mike Stobe/Getty Images)

 

According to twitter reports, Sutter and White have been dealt to Carolina for Anton Babchuk and Tom Kostopolous.

Like White, Babchuk is an offensive minded rearguard who can sometimes have adventures in his own end. Kostopolous is an established NHLer, albeit a rather limited one. He adds to the log-jam of 3rd and 4th liners on the Flames bottm-end.

I don't know how this effects the team on the ice (if at all), but the best news is the Flames save about $1M in cap space.

More detailed analysis later.

39d8109299a9795cb3b41a4e9b49d501
Former Nations Overlord. Current Fn contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
Avatar
#52 KingJafi
November 17 2010, 03:01PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Here's the real question; when can Daz be fired and we start the damn rebuild already? I'm starting to feel like its 1993 all over again. Flames are going nowhere...and fast.

Avatar
#53 Skidplate
November 17 2010, 03:01PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Resolute wrote:

If you are going to go that route, you have to be even handed about it.

Sjostrom was a "UFA that could be had for nothing" on Toronto's side. Given he was waived already this year, Sutter is a player Carolina could have had "for nothing" as well.

I don't believe that Sutter was eligible to be claimed. Too young and not enough NHL games.

Avatar
#54 chw
November 17 2010, 03:03PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Kostopolous is signed for next year, Babchuk is a UFA.

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=9&salary_cap_mil=59&salary_cap_thou=4

Avatar
#56 A18
November 17 2010, 03:08PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Once again Daz has left me scratching my head. The Flames continue to be an emotional roller coaster. Hopefully this is a precursor to something beneficial to the club.

Avatar
#57 KingJafi
November 17 2010, 03:10PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@DamoSpin

Is Damien Cox really coming on a Flames fan site and talking trash about Dion Phaneuf?

Avatar
#58 Robert V
November 17 2010, 03:11PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Skidplate wrote:

Correction: Phaneuf, Sjostrom, Aulie, Sutter for Stajan, Hagman, Babchuk and a UFA that could have been had for nothing.

Really really bad asset manangement.

Correct: Phaneuf and crap-you-can-get-anywhere for crap-you-can-get-almost-anywhere.

No way Phaneuf should have been traded without something of real significance in exchange.

Of course, that's no reason to keep White. Babchuk is a cheaper version of White, so what's the problem?

Avatar
#59 Bob
November 17 2010, 03:15PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I would have loved to have heard Brett's phone call to his mom to tell her the news!

Anyone wanna bet that Darryl is crashing on the couch in his office tonight?

Avatar
#60 KingJafi
November 17 2010, 03:19PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
A18 wrote:

Once again Daz has left me scratching my head. The Flames continue to be an emotional roller coaster. Hopefully this is a precursor to something beneficial to the club.

Like losing 15 or so more games before 2011 and ridding ourselves of Daz once and for all. That's the only beneficial thing I see coming to this franchise. Daz wrote himself off in my book with the Phaneuf trade. Today he manages re-open wounds. (disclaimer: I'm not upset about Dion being gone...just upset Daz let the Flames get robbed like that.)

Avatar
#62 dotfras
November 17 2010, 03:27PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Being a Flames fan & living in Ontario is so comical.

Phaneuf is a gong show.

Avatar
#63 everton fc
November 17 2010, 03:28PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Salary dump. No question about it. Perhaps for another move...?

Babchuk has been in the minors a lot for a former #1 pick. And Russia. Perhaps going back to the Russian league will pay off like it did for Gio?! One can dream. He's still young. Big, but not broad. Has a better shot than White.

Salary dump.

Kostopoulos is probably capable of more offence than Jackman, willing to toss the gloves occasionally. Someone compared him to Nystrom. He's broader, maybe similar point-production. A fourth line of he and Jackman between Conroy... ??? And he's 31 in January... ???

We have Meyer, and a few others on the farm that are of the same caliber as Sutter. No loss there. And he's not awfully big.

Perhaps something larger remains on the horizon? I wouldn't think Kostopoulos is a RW to add to the depth charts if Iggy is moved. Perhaps he simply keeps moving - with a few others?

Glad to see White go. Too small. Doesn't fit here.

If Babchuk can put up points like 08-09 season - super. He certainly no worse than White. Not really. And he's certainly not a #4 defencemen.

Sarich suddenly is... For the moment.

Avatar
#64 Red Mile
November 17 2010, 03:29PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Will this trade solidify us as true cup contenders? No. Will this trade put this team further down the absymal hole we are already in? Not really. White did good for us but not great. And the word 'great' is used quite seldomly around this club for quite some time. Is it okay to have scotch before 3:00pm on Wednesday. Yes.

Avatar
#65 Red Mile
November 17 2010, 03:31PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Correction: the word 'great' is NOT used seldomly. Where's the Glenfiddich?

Avatar
#67 jbeach403
November 17 2010, 03:43PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Decent move I suppose, not really losing anything and some cap space comes with it. Ive been unimpressed with white this year anyway.

Avatar
#68 dotfras
November 17 2010, 03:48PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Babchuk & Gio are now the Flames top Defenseman in terms of points, both tied at 8. Babchuk has 3 goals. I'd assume if anything our PP will improve.

Avatar
#69 Graham
November 17 2010, 03:55PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Babchuk is a big guy who plays soft, vs White a small guy who plays soft, both seem to have reasonable offensive upside. Maybe a change of location will benefit both guys... Kind of a wash if you factor in the saved cap space?

Basically liked Meyers play this season, so I am not sure why we are acquiring another bottom six forward...especially since he is under contract for next year. Guess the GM defaulted to form and thought we needed another vetearn... Could work... no real loss in Brett Sutter.

Overall, somewhere beteen blah and neutral

Avatar
#70 dotfras
November 17 2010, 03:59PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

"I think it's a good team with a shot of going all the way." - Tom Kostopoulos #Flames

Tommy must not have the internet or cable.

Avatar
#71 jbeach403
November 17 2010, 04:03PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
dotfras wrote:

"I think it's a good team with a shot of going all the way." - Tom Kostopoulos #Flames

Tommy must not have the internet or cable.

All the way- from a team that many considered a contendor, (at least within the org) to a top 10 draft pick, all in a season and a half.

Avatar
#72 Bruins
November 17 2010, 04:04PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Has a GM and a President ever been traded?

Avatar
#73 dotfras
November 17 2010, 04:09PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
jbeach403 wrote:

All the way- from a team that many considered a contendor, (at least within the org) to a top 10 draft pick, all in a season and a half.

I remember the TSN show at the beginning last year, EVERY analyst had the Flames in their top 5 favorites.

Avatar
#74 jbeach403
November 17 2010, 04:09PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Bruins wrote:

Has a GM and a President ever been traded?

I seem to remember Brent coming over under slightly suspicious circumstances.

Avatar
#75 Resolute
November 17 2010, 04:12PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Skidplate wrote:

I don't believe that Sutter was eligible to be claimed. Too young and not enough NHL games.

Dead wrong. Brett Sutter was waiver eligible beginning this year and was waived prior to the start of the season.

Avatar
#76 Resolute
November 17 2010, 04:13PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
KingJafi wrote:

Is Damien Cox really coming on a Flames fan site and talking trash about Dion Phaneuf?

If you saw his whiny bitch routine on Twitter last night, you would be aware that Cox is one of the internet's biggest trolls lately.

Avatar
#77 the-wolf
November 17 2010, 04:22PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Frankly, after watching the way White played last year here and in TO, vs. the way he played this year, I think he played his way out on purpose.

Ditto for what Iggy is trying to do. To terrified of his image if the trade request ever leaked out. I mean I think a lot of people, especially in this town, have overrated him for while now, but he's not THAT bad of a player.

The end is nigh.

Avatar
#78 Tach
November 17 2010, 04:25PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Kent Wilson wrote:

Yeah, shuffling deck chairs. And least they saved some cap space in the process I guess.

Surely Kent, you must have at least liked my idea from your White trade thread better than this move?

There was a time when I would have given Sutter the benefit of the doubt on a move like this, but that time has come and gone. There are so many Sutter cowbells tied up in this one trade that it is bordering on comical.

-Aging, grinding style winger, check

-defensive depth, check (Double Anton bonus - Stralman v. Babchuk - The former was two years younger and put up 34 points last year in Columbus. The one the Flames now have put up 22 points in 49 games last year...in the KHL.)

-Looking out for the family, Brett gets babysat by cousin Brandon in Carolina, check

-No prospects or picks coming back, check

-By all appearances an asset is being dealt with no apparent investigation into alternative opportunities, check (I mean, did Sutter even ask one other team if they were interested in a trade. Since his kid got in the dust up 5 days ago? It's inconceivable he did a proper investigation as to the best return for a package of these two players)

Its all just so...inexplicable, infuriating, frustrating...bah!

Avatar
#79 Bruins
November 17 2010, 04:30PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

They should send a case of smelling salts to the Flames owners so they wake up and see whats happening to there team

Avatar
#80 Casey
November 17 2010, 04:36PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Resolute wrote:

If you saw his whiny bitch routine on Twitter last night, you would be aware that Cox is one of the internet's biggest trolls lately.

Saw that on Twitter. Cox is a piece of work. He sure has a hate on for bloggers.

Avatar
#81 Casey
November 17 2010, 04:44PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Tach wrote:

Surely Kent, you must have at least liked my idea from your White trade thread better than this move?

There was a time when I would have given Sutter the benefit of the doubt on a move like this, but that time has come and gone. There are so many Sutter cowbells tied up in this one trade that it is bordering on comical.

-Aging, grinding style winger, check

-defensive depth, check (Double Anton bonus - Stralman v. Babchuk - The former was two years younger and put up 34 points last year in Columbus. The one the Flames now have put up 22 points in 49 games last year...in the KHL.)

-Looking out for the family, Brett gets babysat by cousin Brandon in Carolina, check

-No prospects or picks coming back, check

-By all appearances an asset is being dealt with no apparent investigation into alternative opportunities, check (I mean, did Sutter even ask one other team if they were interested in a trade. Since his kid got in the dust up 5 days ago? It's inconceivable he did a proper investigation as to the best return for a package of these two players)

Its all just so...inexplicable, infuriating, frustrating...bah!

Kostopolous is almost certainly a salary throw in.

Clearly Brett Sutter needed to go to another organization. Would you prefer that they keep him?

White makes $3M/year, is sucking badly, and he is a UFA in July. How many teams do you think would have been lining up to trade for White? I would argue that Sutter should have been BEGGING other teams to take White.

How many teams would be willing to give you a high draft pick for White? Anybody taking him on is doing it for the short term and is taking a huge risk that he'll find his game. White's trade value is/was minimal at best.

Let's say you did manage to trade White for a pick. Now you aren't getting a body back that can play right now. The already bad PP gets even worse. Then Sutter gets roasted.

Dreger and Feaster say that this deal has been in the works for weeks. Do we believe Dreger? I do.

Avatar
#82 Pat Steinberg
November 17 2010, 05:15PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Late joiner...craziest day ever back at the shop.

Couple things...Kent is a god, way to write that White post two days before the trade. Outstanding.

Second...I don't get this one myself. I wasn't a huge fan of White, and felt his stats weren't on par with what he's actually capable of...but why not let that money come off the cap at the end of the year?

I haven't looked at Babchuk's deeper stats, but from what I've been able to understand, he's not really an upgrade on White...so how does this make the team better?

Avatar
#83 Casey
November 17 2010, 05:23PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Pat Steinberg wrote:

Late joiner...craziest day ever back at the shop.

Couple things...Kent is a god, way to write that White post two days before the trade. Outstanding.

Second...I don't get this one myself. I wasn't a huge fan of White, and felt his stats weren't on par with what he's actually capable of...but why not let that money come off the cap at the end of the year?

I haven't looked at Babchuk's deeper stats, but from what I've been able to understand, he's not really an upgrade on White...so how does this make the team better?

Sutter had to sign White based on his work last year. There would have been a MUTINY if he just let White walk.

Babchuk is only signed until this summer. He doesn't have a no trade clause. You can just let Babchuk walk, but you only have to pay him $1.4M instead of $3M.

He is 7" taller than White and has significant offensive upside. His shot is a CANON. He was 8th in the league in defenseman goal scoring in 08-09 with 16 goals. He is a right handed point shot. If he improves the PP then this trade works.

I don't see how he can be much worse than White was this year?

Avatar
#84 Pat Steinberg
November 17 2010, 05:32PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Casey

55.6% offensive zone start for Babchuk in 08-09, so not massively high. From what I've heard: great shot, good offensive instincts, good on the powerplay.

Okay, that's great...but instead of losing $3 million off the cap when White doesn't re-sign, you now take on Kostopoulos at just under $1 million for next year.

It doesn't mesh for me. Is Babchuk going to be the difference to them making or missing the playoffs this year? I think not...the same way White isn't the reason why Calgary is 7-9. It just seems like a totally lateral move.

Avatar
#85 Kenn
November 17 2010, 05:46PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I need time to watch the club but right now we are looking at Dion Phaneuf for Kostoupolous, Babchuk, Stajan and Hagman.

I still cannot understand the hocley side of the deal that we would have either gone after draft picks or some players in the minors. The Leafs wanted Keith Aulie thrown into the deal but the Flames were content with what they were getting in return. Stajan is NOT going to be a number one and he will be lucky to stay between #2 and #3, I also find him on the softer side. Hagman is working out pretty well. The bottom line whether we like or dislike Dion and whether we think he is a dick head or not he still went number 10 in the draft and we just have nothing to show for it. How can we give up a #1 for Olli but not get some form of prospect back in return for that trade. It makes me think the deal with Dion was partially salary and chemistry and today was salary and getting rid of a guy that they had no ability to resign and was a -10.

Let's hope Babchuk surprises us, develops into a solid player and a positive offensive side.

Avatar
#86 calgary 6 edmonton 0
November 17 2010, 06:45PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I think this will send a good message to the team in terms up "I will trade my son if he doesn't perform, what makes you think your safe?" kinda way. White was performing way below expectations IMO so I don't really care about him leaving.

Avatar
#87 SmellOfVictory
November 17 2010, 08:27PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I keep getting Babchuk and Boychuk confused. I got all excited initially.

Avatar
#88 KingJafi
November 17 2010, 10:04PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Casey wrote:

Saw that on Twitter. Cox is a piece of work. He sure has a hate on for bloggers.

I'm going to go check that out right now. Lol.

Avatar
#89 KingJafi
November 17 2010, 10:08PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Resolute wrote:

If you saw his whiny bitch routine on Twitter last night, you would be aware that Cox is one of the internet's biggest trolls lately.

From Mr. Cox' Twitter feed. I guess he has retracted what you referenced above. Too bad, I would of love to have seen the rant. ;)

"Upon consideration, my comments about @mc79hockey (15 mins of fame, etc.) were gratuitous and unnecessary. I retract and apologize. My bad."

Avatar
#90 JF
November 17 2010, 11:43PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Pat Steinberg

It's a completely lateral move. It also clears enough money off the chart so that when you bring Kotalik back the team will be cap compliant (or at least close enough that Meyer alone going down to Abby does the trick).

Avatar
#91 Marcus
November 18 2010, 01:12AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
JF wrote:

It's a completely lateral move. It also clears enough money off the chart so that when you bring Kotalik back the team will be cap compliant (or at least close enough that Meyer alone going down to Abby does the trick).

Exactly. Plus there needs to be some form of a shake up. White got fat and lazy in Toronto. Signed a swan of a deal and came to camp out of shape. This is a good salary dump. It's sad Iggy got kicked out of his house by wifey. When it rains it pours with our luck as Flames fans. sheesh. Great foresight Kent. Love it. Can't wait to see your analysis on Babchuck vs White.

Comments are closed for this article.