Around the League - Playoff Edition - Wk 1: Extended version

Jason Gregor
April 22 2010 10:29PM

This has been the best first round of NHL playoffs that I can remember. We’ve already seen one upset, Flyers (although I said I should pick them, but stupidly didn’t), the Bruins are one win away from another one, while the Predators, Avalanche, Senators and Coyotes aren’t going away quietly. And the most physical and entertaining series has been the Canucks/Kings, and I fully expect them to go seven games.

While the games have been great the biggest head scratcher has to be what is deemed a “distinct kicking motion”, although the ridiculous conspiracy theories emanating out of Vancouver are a close second.

The league doesn’t want LA to win anymore than they want Vancouver to win, regardless of what Canuck fans think. So please stop the outlandish theories, and ask why your team can’t kill a penalty instead.

While I laugh at the conspiracy theorists, I can understand why Canuck fans would be annoyed by Mike Murphy’s decision to disallow the Daniel Sedin goal. In case you missed it here it is.

Here’s the explanation Murphy said on CBC after the game explaining why he disallowed it.

“It had to be propelled some way. Not with a distinct kicking motion, but with a kicking motion, that made it move back the other way. It wasn't a deflection. It wasn't a redirect. It was a kick. That's the decision we came up with.”

But this is what rule 49.2 in the NHL rulebook says regarding goals:

“Kicking the puck shall be permitted in all zones. A goal cannot be scored by an attacking player who uses a distinct kicking motion to propel the puck into the net. A goal cannot be scored by an attacking player who kicks a puck that deflects into the net off any player, goalkeeper or official.

A puck that deflects into the net off an attacking player's skate who does not use a distinct kicking motion is a legitimate goal. A puck that is directed into the net by an attacking player's skate shall be a legitimate goal as long as no distinct kicking motion is evident.”

 Based on the rule book, Sedin’s goal should have counted, but when I asked Blues head coach, Davis Payne his thought’s on the call he shed some new light on the situation. The league sent out a video about goals off of skates that would be allowed or disallowed.

“The rule video that came out indicates that if you provide some momentum or thrust for the puck going in a different direction, it’s the same as a distinct kicking motion. You provide enough momentum for the puck to go in the net with your foot, then that is the intent of disallowing that type of play.”

Davis said he wasn’t surprised they disallowed the goal; however, he did agree that more clarity is needed.

New rule needed?

Should the league allow goals that go off the skate if the blade is on the ice at the point of impact, regardless if it is kicked in or not?

“Finding a way to use your feet, finding a way to increase scoring and finding a way to clarify it because we don’t want the skates up off the ice seems good, so it might not be a bad idea to table,” said Payne when I asked him.

If Sedin actually knew what he was doing in that split-second then to me that is a great play and should be counted. Others will argue this isn’t soccer, so kicking is out of the question.

I think the league has to decide one way or the other. Either they allow goals if the skate blade is on the ice (They can’t encourage a real kicking motion off the ice or players will end up getting cut) or go the other way and any goal that goes in off the skate is disallowed.

Pick one side and live with. Right now there is too much of a grey area, and even with instant replay they can’t get the call correct.

Which side are you on?

Random thoughts

Martin Brodeur isn’t the goalie he used to be, but blaming him for the Devils’ first round exit isn’t right. The Devils scored nine goals in five games, on Brian freaking Boucher. If they can’t score on Boucher, how do they expect to win?

Ilya Kovalchuk has won a grand total of ONE playoff game in his career. I wonder which team will over pay him this summer. He is a great offensive player, but he hasn’t won anything to date.

What is going in pro sports? We’ve seen too many men in the CFL and NFL championships cost a team the game, and now we’ve had 16 too-many-men-on-the-ice penalties this year. The Buffalo Sabres are probably done after having six skaters on the ice in OT in game four.

Johnny Boychuk has been the surprise of the playoffs so far. The Edmonton native spent five years in the AHL, before finally cracking the Bruins lineup this year. Not only is he averaging over 26 minutes a night, he’s looked like Scott Stevens with some bone-crushing hits v. the Sabres. It is hard not to root for a guy who pays his dues and finally get rewarded.

I don’t think Joe Thornton doesn’t care, I just don’t think he can elevate his game. He only possesses regular season intensity.

Washington and Philly will be one hell of a series. The Human Rake v. Ovechkin will be an outstanding matchup.

The Nation gets more love

The Folks at River Cree Resort and Casino in Edmonton have noticed lots of traffic courtesy of our readers and they want to reward those of you who are fight fans. They gave me five pairs of tickets for this Friday night’s Let’s Get It On MMA fight card at the River Cree. First five people to email gregor@theteam1260.com will be going.

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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Gregor

I have to ask you a reporting question. It has to deal with Tencer and how he came out yesterday about the potential firing of the staff.

Do you not find it unethical for someone to just throw out that they have a hot rumor about a coaching staff being fired and then making a post a few minutes latter stating that we should emphasize the word RUMOUR? My big issue here is that Tencer with his second tweet makes it sound as if he doesn't want to take blame if what he is throwing out there is incorrect? My other beef is within a span of 5-10 minutes he finds out from Laforge and the PR team that this was false, so why not spend the 5-10 minutes before making the claim?

I just think for a guy in his position that has connections there is no real reason to throw around rumors about the people on the team that aren't in the high profile role.

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#2 BUCK75
April 23 2010, 11:41AM
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@Senator Theo

http://wbab.com/images/2009/03/milhouse-wedgie_o.jpg

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#3 OILERSORDEATH
April 23 2010, 02:28PM
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Good I'm glad they disallowed the goal, thats payback for all the dirty hits n cheesy goals they scored. Eff Vancouver Eff their a$$hole fans. When Oilers are out I cheer for LA. Plus how can you not like Doughty! Dudes a stud and Canadian! not Swede!

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#4 SmellOfVictory
April 22 2010, 10:52PM
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To beat a dead horse, that clarification makes me feel better about the phantom cup-winning Gelinas skate goal from '04. It probably would've been disallowed the same way this one was if it had been reviewed.

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#5 Heavyd
April 22 2010, 10:57PM
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@SmellOfVictory

What about the Hull goal in 99. No skate allowed in the crease, and you could tell his skate was in the crease.

Was there any instant replay at that time?

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#6 SmellOfVictory
April 22 2010, 11:27PM
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Heavyd wrote:

What about the Hull goal in 99. No skate allowed in the crease, and you could tell his skate was in the crease.

Was there any instant replay at that time?

You've got me. I'm too young to remember what little hockey I might've seen back then.

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#7 Petr's Jofa
April 23 2010, 04:41AM
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@Heavyd

Yes there was instant replay and it used to drag on and on.

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#8 The Towel Boy
April 23 2010, 07:35AM
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I say as long as players aren't letting their skate leave the ice they should be allowed to kick, redirect, propel, drive, shove, thrust, ram, spur, divert, alter, avert, veer the puck into the net and have it count as a goal.

Why not? It would take away a lot of ambiguity and conjecture in regards to the interpretation of the rule book from video replay guys.

Was his skate on the ice? Yes/No.

Done.

Goal or no Goal. Simple.

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#9 The Towel Boy
April 23 2010, 07:37AM
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Re: Too Many Men - Buffalo/Bruins Oh, and if I was Drew Stafford I think I would've just stayed in the penalty box until Lindy Ruff got tired of waiting for me in the dressing room.

I bet he got an earful after that loss.

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Bah I would've liked to go to that show, haven't been there yet for a show.

On the kicking rule. I really don't care which way they go, but which ever way they go it has to be a clear rule. I can see them saying that as long as the skate blade is on the ice that you can kick the puck in, but does that mean the whole skate blade has to be on the ice or just part? I can see why they don't want a kicking motion as it could get dangerous.

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#11 Bucknuck
April 23 2010, 08:22AM
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I don't think you can make the rule that it can't hit a skate as many of the blasts from the point hit skates on the way by and are great goals (and saves sometimes). Too many goals would be called back.

Keep your blade on the ice and then I don't care how it goes in.

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#13 madjam
April 23 2010, 08:55AM
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Redirection of puck a skill that needs to be rewarded . Not acceptable is the over the head or sidewinder scissor kick - thats a might to dangerous . Hacky sack type kick allowed if it does not endanger other players and is used for redirection and follow thru not over a foot. If skate on ice and not endangering other players and follow thru less than one foot - a goal . Redirection of puck by foot or less and not endangering other players or impeding goalie - a goal . Basically , allowing most types of use of skate and foot dynamics that do not involve endangering others . Heck , i wouldn't even mind seeing them open up the scoring by allowing goals with use of high stick or glove , so long as it was not a distinctive throwing motion and endangering other players . I also would like to see more physicality added to game . The new equipment unfortuneately prevents that . The football type of equipment players wear today kills skill, and makes things worse for the players when it comes to injuries and the severity of them - the very thing it was supposed to help them avoid . League needs to revisit players equipment as it is having a worse effect on players well being than on actually protecting them . Ironic boarding on complete stupidy , is it not, to see football players to be playing football with hockey helment type helments on ? Yet hockey players with equipment similiar to their football players are doing just that and most hockey ones are loosely held on - does that make any sense ? Ah , but that would deter fighting to an extent and thats something the league and players do not want to take out of the game , they like to encouage it even if they do not want to admit so .

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Jason Gregor wrote:

I was wrong before on Heatley, although the names were out there.

I don't really know what you are referring to in this instance, but considering he was the one who ripped John MacKinnon for "leaking" out Prendergast's firing I find is amusing.

MacKinnon did his job and it isn't a leak when a reporter not connected with the team reports the story. That is called breaking it.

Too suggest someone is getting fired and then they don't, I wouldn't do that. That is someone's livelyhood, and even if the fans want blood, you don't falsely pump it up. That's just me.

I guess I should show what I was talking about. Via tencer twitter. 5 different comments, first three were within a 5-10 minutes and the bottom 2 were an hour later. What really gets me is when guys don't want to take the heat for leaking something, but then in a week when this does happen they act as if they should get all the credit.

Hot rumours that Oilers have fired medical/training staff...working on it...

Let me emphasize the word RUMOUR. Just asked Oilers President Patrick LaForge and he had not heard of such moves

As of 2 minutes ago, Oilers PR staff says: "Not true."

Still digging...there's something here, I think.

Alright, so rip me for it if you want...but out of respect for the families of those potentially involved in said rumour, I'm backing off.

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#15 Chaz
April 23 2010, 09:11AM
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I'm finding it hard to function without my weekly dose of Ice Girls. As interested as I am in these comments, they are not scantily clad women on Skates. I hate to complain, but more accuratley, I enjoy complaining....

In terms of the too many men thing, I would chalk it up to loud arenas and guys just being a little too eager to get on the ice. Playoff intensity causing guys to jump the gun. I love it!

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#16 Harlie
April 23 2010, 09:37AM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

I guess I should show what I was talking about. Via tencer twitter. 5 different comments, first three were within a 5-10 minutes and the bottom 2 were an hour later. What really gets me is when guys don't want to take the heat for leaking something, but then in a week when this does happen they act as if they should get all the credit.

Hot rumours that Oilers have fired medical/training staff...working on it...

Let me emphasize the word RUMOUR. Just asked Oilers President Patrick LaForge and he had not heard of such moves

As of 2 minutes ago, Oilers PR staff says: "Not true."

Still digging...there's something here, I think.

Alright, so rip me for it if you want...but out of respect for the families of those potentially involved in said rumour, I'm backing off.

wonder if the comments made by Souray playing before he was ready has called some ripples..

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Harlie wrote:

wonder if the comments made by Souray playing before he was ready has called some ripples..

Tough to say. From what Gregor has talked about on his show about internal management problems I have to wonder if this stuff was going to happen anyways.

You look at each scenario and there is a very valid reason for Tambo firing KP and if it happens the training staff.

Considering Tambo likes to keep a tight lipped ship, I wonder what he thinks about Mr.Tencer's recent comments.

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#18 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 23 2010, 09:51AM
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I wonder if the Hawks were mean to Campbell and "made" him play last night?

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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

I wonder if the Hawks were mean to Campbell and "made" him play last night?

How about Carter in Philly playing with a foot he probably should'nt have been?

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#20 Harlie
April 23 2010, 09:57AM
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@Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

i bet it was one of the "allegedly" fired Staff who gave Tencer the heads up and he tweted about it. Not much Tambo can do about that. I basically got boo'd off the HF boards a few years back for suggesting our high rate of injuries and our Training change to Chad Moreau or whoever was running things medically may have been a contributing factor to the high rate of injuries. Looks like there may have been something to that. We'll see what the shakedown is. I remember it was that HA101 broad who gave me the biggest grief when I was suggesting that and I can see that she is the one running the rumor thread over there now. How appropriate.

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#21 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 23 2010, 09:58AM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

How about Carter in Philly playing with a foot he probably should'nt have been?

Flyers were probably mean too.

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#22 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 23 2010, 10:15AM
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Harlie wrote:

i bet it was one of the "allegedly" fired Staff who gave Tencer the heads up and he tweted about it. Not much Tambo can do about that. I basically got boo'd off the HF boards a few years back for suggesting our high rate of injuries and our Training change to Chad Moreau or whoever was running things medically may have been a contributing factor to the high rate of injuries. Looks like there may have been something to that. We'll see what the shakedown is. I remember it was that HA101 broad who gave me the biggest grief when I was suggesting that and I can see that she is the one running the rumor thread over there now. How appropriate.

"Training change to Chad Moreau or whoever was running things medically may have been a contributing factor to the high rate of injuries."

That's still just speculation at best

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Harlie wrote:

i bet it was one of the "allegedly" fired Staff who gave Tencer the heads up and he tweted about it. Not much Tambo can do about that. I basically got boo'd off the HF boards a few years back for suggesting our high rate of injuries and our Training change to Chad Moreau or whoever was running things medically may have been a contributing factor to the high rate of injuries. Looks like there may have been something to that. We'll see what the shakedown is. I remember it was that HA101 broad who gave me the biggest grief when I was suggesting that and I can see that she is the one running the rumor thread over there now. How appropriate.

The thing is Moreau trains like 8 or 9 current Oilers and a bunch of guys during the summer. If he was really that bad would guys keep coming back?

The fact is 2/3 of this team have an injury history. There isn't a whole bunch of guys that are known to play most of a year, so really is it the medical staff or the team being to fragile?

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Gregor this whole lets get it on promotion are there going to be ways to watch it outside of showing up in person?

Edit: You should take Mr.Short to this and try show him that this is cock fighting or whatever he called MMA.

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#25 Harlie
April 23 2010, 10:31AM
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@Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

link on the current Oilers who still go to Moreau? Last I heard they moved to Bennett locally.

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Harlie wrote:

link on the current Oilers who still go to Moreau? Last I heard they moved to Bennett locally.

I would have to dig something up for that. It's more of side programs. Stortini, Moreau and Horcoff are the three that come to mind.

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#27 Harlie
April 23 2010, 10:43AM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

I would have to dig something up for that. It's more of side programs. Stortini, Moreau and Horcoff are the three that come to mind.

are you talking about that youtube videos or videos from 3-4 years ago? Hardly recent enough info to add to a debate isn't it?

And if you don't think the Training/ Medical Staff has any culpability in why our injury rates are so high then why is the rumor out there that they all got the green weiner? Usually there is a reason for a firing.

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#28 Harlie
April 23 2010, 10:50AM
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@Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

p.s - I'm not the only one speculating about Chad Moreau and the Oiler injuries. Stauffer discussed this for a few minutes a few days ago on the Oilers lunch.

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#29 Bucknuck
April 23 2010, 10:58AM
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@Harlie

Souray's Cuncussion, Staios' Cuncussion, Comrie's Mono, The whole team's flu, Sourays busted hand, JF Jacques chronically busted back, Kahbibulin's back, and Grebs nuts are all items that cannot be blamed on the traing staff.

That leaves a few, though.

Gagner Stone Smid Horcoff Hemsky Brule Pouliot

Where did those players train?

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#30 The Towel Boy
April 23 2010, 10:58AM
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So, it's official. Training/Equipment staff fired.

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#31 BUCK75
April 23 2010, 10:58AM
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Looks like Milhouse was right...

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#32 Harlie
April 23 2010, 11:01AM
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Bucknuck wrote:

Souray's Cuncussion, Staios' Cuncussion, Comrie's Mono, The whole team's flu, Sourays busted hand, JF Jacques chronically busted back, Kahbibulin's back, and Grebs nuts are all items that cannot be blamed on the traing staff.

That leaves a few, though.

Gagner Stone Smid Horcoff Hemsky Brule Pouliot

Where did those players train?

where there's smoke...is all I'm saying.

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#33 David S
April 23 2010, 11:07AM
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Lowe is gone! Lowe is gone!*

*Ken

Seriously though. Cheesy move for guys that have busted their nuts for this organization, mostly in an unsung role.

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#34 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 23 2010, 11:13AM
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Bucknuck wrote:

Souray's Cuncussion, Staios' Cuncussion, Comrie's Mono, The whole team's flu, Sourays busted hand, JF Jacques chronically busted back, Kahbibulin's back, and Grebs nuts are all items that cannot be blamed on the traing staff.

That leaves a few, though.

Gagner Stone Smid Horcoff Hemsky Brule Pouliot

Where did those players train?

Exactly + X out Brule because he's had injury problems before he was here so he should get the "injury prone" tag along with possibly Stone too (don't know his background).

After all that we're probably down to league average for injuries.... but it is much more fun to try and find the simplest answer and beat it into the ground.

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#35 yegCopywriter
April 23 2010, 11:14AM
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I can see how you can place some blame on the trainers for injuries, but the equipment managers? That's a bit odd.

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#36 Dan the Man
April 23 2010, 11:21AM
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David S wrote:

Lowe is gone! Lowe is gone!*

*Ken

Seriously though. Cheesy move for guys that have busted their nuts for this organization, mostly in an unsung role.

I couldn't agree more. Seems like a window dressing type of change especially with Sparky. It does say that they are being re-assigned within the organization though.

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#37 Senator Theo
April 23 2010, 11:25AM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

Tough to say. From what Gregor has talked about on his show about internal management problems I have to wonder if this stuff was going to happen anyways.

You look at each scenario and there is a very valid reason for Tambo firing KP and if it happens the training staff.

Considering Tambo likes to keep a tight lipped ship, I wonder what he thinks about Mr.Tencer's recent comments.

If I was Steve, I wouldn't want these kind of tweets coming from someone essentially inside the organization.

I would call Milhouse into my office and give him a spanking. Then I would talk to him about not tweeting this kind of information.

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#38 Twiggs
April 23 2010, 11:28AM
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The Towel Boy wrote:

So, it's official. Training/Equipment staff fired.

I'm trying to find the source so I can read about it. Any suggestions?

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#39 BUCK75
April 23 2010, 11:33AM
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@Twiggs

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Oilers+trainers/2943295/story.html

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#40 David S
April 23 2010, 11:34AM
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Twiggs wrote:

I'm trying to find the source so I can read about it. Any suggestions?

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Oilers+trainers/2943295/story.html

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#41 Team Hall
April 23 2010, 11:37AM
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@Twiggs

Ya, what did the equipment guys do wrong? Didn't get the equipment out fast enough? Come on, that was too far. And Tencer Millhouse does need to be a bit more professionalism and experience. He has talent, but he's still a cocky kid at this point.

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#42 Dan the Man
April 23 2010, 11:41AM
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Spector also has it on Sportsnet. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2010/04/23/oilers_fire_training_staff/

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#43 Bucknuck
April 23 2010, 11:43AM
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Fire the trainers?

If you needed proof that this is Tambellini's team and not Kevin Lowes, you now have it. He wouldn't fire his own brother after 28 years.

They fired Stafford and Kuchisky? Who's next? Joey Moss? c'mon. They aren't the one's responsible for this team failing.

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#44 Ducey
April 23 2010, 12:04PM
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Great point Bucknuck about this showing that Tambi is calling the shots, not Lowe.

I have no problem with these guys getting let go. The organization needs a big shakeup. The players are going to see a lot of new faces around and hopefully that will help turn the page on the last few years.

As well, the team has had a very high injury rate the last few years, some of this has to fall under the trainer's role. I don't know the equipment guys have a role in this but again, lets get the next generation in, get some enthusiasm and new ideas, and get the rebuild underway.

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#45 Reggie
April 23 2010, 12:14PM
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I know space ships are cool and all, but what the heck ? have you used up all the ice girl pictures Gregor ? Sadness prevails ...

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#46 Dan the Man
April 23 2010, 12:17PM
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As far as kicking pucks in goes I think to simplify the rule they could say something like any puck that goes in off of a skate that is in motion will be disallowed. So there fore deflections of of stationary skates would still be allowed.

It's a lot easier to tell if a skate is in motion than if there was intent to kick.

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#47 Dan the Man
April 23 2010, 12:18PM
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Reggie wrote:

I know space ships are cool and all, but what the heck ? have you used up all the ice girl pictures Gregor ? Sadness prevails ...

Did you read Gregor's previous post?

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#48 Reggie
April 23 2010, 12:29PM
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Dan the Man wrote:

Did you read Gregor's previous post?

No, totally missed it ! Thanks for the heads up !!!

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#49 Dan the Man
April 23 2010, 12:36PM
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Reggie wrote:

No, totally missed it ! Thanks for the heads up !!!

No worries, I wouldn't want you to miss something like that.

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Harlie wrote:

are you talking about that youtube videos or videos from 3-4 years ago? Hardly recent enough info to add to a debate isn't it?

And if you don't think the Training/ Medical Staff has any culpability in why our injury rates are so high then why is the rumor out there that they all got the green weiner? Usually there is a reason for a firing.

This was within the past couple months I heard this.

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