Around the League - Playoff Edition - Wk 3

Jason Gregor
May 06 2010 10:26AM

The onus to produce and win in the playoffs is immense. Produce and a player will be revered amongst fans and media, but if a player can’t produce in the “real” season he will be chastised mercilessly.

Has a player been ripped more -- and rightfully so -- about his lack of playoff success than Joe Thornton? No, and that’s because since 1970, he along with Alex Ovechkin, Eric Lindros and Jose Theodore are the only players who have won the Hart Trophy, but not the Stanley Cup.

But has Thornton been that bad?

Lindros tallied 57 points in 53 playoff games, and led the Flyers to the Cup in 1996. Ovechkin has 20 goals and 40 points in 28 post-season games, and Jose Theodore had one incredible season, but most don’t consider him one of the league’s best players.

Thornton on the other hand has produced the second most points since the lockout with 510. Only Ovechkin, with 529, has scored more. Here are the rest of the top-ten point producers since the lockout.

Sidney Crosby: 506

Dany Heatley: 444

Pavel Datsyuk: 438

Ilya Kovalchuk: 437

Daniel Alfredsson: 424

Marty St. Louis: 420

Vincent Lecavalier: 414

Marc Savard: 392

Only Marc Savard hasn’t played in the Cup finals, but he has 20 points in 20 playoff games, while Thornton has 61 points in 85 career games, but since the lockout he has 43 points in 50 games. Not horrible numbers, but he only has eight goals and in many games his effort left you wanting more.

However, Thornton has goals in consecutive playoff games for the first time since 2002 and his Sharks are leading the Detroit Red Wings 3-0. Suddenly Thornton has eight points in nine games, and if the Sharks win the Cup he might shed his reputation of being a post-season underachiever.

For the first 13 years of his career, people doubted if Steve Yzerman could lead his team, but with three Cups in six seasons, he went from being considered an underachiever to one of the best leaders in the history of the game.

I always thought Yzerman was a great player, but even his own team doubted him, when in February of 1996 they allegedly almost dealt him to Ottawa for Alexei Yashin. However, Jimmy Devellano didn’t pull the trigger and a year later the Red Wings won the Cup.

Thornton isn’t as good as Yzerman, but he is one of the league’s most skilled players, and a true gentleman when you deal with him. But, up until now he’s been an unable to elevate his game in the playoffs, but if the last two games are any indication he could shed that reputation.

Outside of shedding the “can’t produce or win in the playoffs” label, he is also playing for enshrinement into the Hall of Fame.

Thornton has 931 points in 915 regular season games, but he’ll only be 31 next season, so 1200+ career points is realistic, but if he doesn’t win a Cup and can’t shake his current label he might not go to the Hall.

Currently there are 14 players with 1000+ points, who didn’t win a Cup who have yet to gain entrance into the Hall of Fame.

  • Dave Taylor
  • Bernie Nicholls
  • Dino Ciccarelli
  • Brian Propp
  • Adam Oates
  • Phil Housley
  • Dale Hunter
  • Brian Bellows
  • Pat Verbeek
  • Vincent Damphousse
  • Pierre Turgeon (Eligible 2010)
  • Jeromy Roenick (Eligible in 2012)
  • Mats Sundin (Eligible in 2012)
  • Keith Tkachuk (Eligible 2013)

Not surprising that the list of players with 1000+ points with a Cup ring who aren’t in the Hall is much shorter: Bobby Smith, Steve Larmer, Dave Andreychuk and Doug Gilmour. Gilmour is a front runner to make it this year, while Andreychuk will be a maybe.

***Joe Nieuwendyk (2010 Eligible), Alex Mogilny (2010), Brendan Shanahan (2012), Theo Fleury (2012) and Sergei Federov (2013) are not in yet, but they all should get in.***

Thornton has lots on the line when it comes to securing his place amongst the NHL greats, and he needs to realize his chance of success might never be as good as this spring. Nine more wins, and you he can punch his ticket to the Hall, but if he loses he’ll take another step towards a permanent seat in underachieverville.

ICE WOMEN OF THE WEEK

With the lovely snow in Alberta and the consistent rain in Vancouver hopefully these ladies from sunny hockey locales will send some warm weather our way. Sara warms the hearts of Kings fans, the Stars ladies are dressed in unison and who doesn’t like a Panther bikini!

RANDOM THOUGHTS

  • The Canadiens missed their chance to upset the Pens, by not being able to score in the 3rd period of game three. The Penguins know how to finish off an opponent, unlike the Capitals.
  • I’m curious what is in the water in Boston, because Mark Recchi and Miro Satan look like they’re 27 not 42 and 35 respectively. Recchi is going for his 3rd Cup, while Satan is looking to win his 2nd straight. Satan only had one goal and six points with the Pens last year, but he leads the Bruins with five goals and ten points this postseason. Satan is making Peter Chiarelli look like a genius for signing him midway through the season.
  • Speaking of ageless wonders, how good did Steve Nash look yesterday as the Suns took a 2-0 series lead over the Spurs? Nash’s vision on the court is incredible. He’s a Hall of Famer and has to be considered top-five greatest Canadian athletes of all-time when his career is over.
  • The 2010 Hall of Fame inductees haven’t been announced yet, but I’m curious who will get in. Here are some of the more notable names: Alex Mogilny, Pierre Turgeon, Adam Oates, Doug Gilmour, Dave Andreychuk, Joe Nieuwendyk, Tom Barrasso, Mike Vernon, Mike Richter, Eric Lindros, Gary Suter and Andy Moog.
  • Who do you think is most deserving? Keep in mind only four players can be inducted, but they don’t need to induct four. I’d put Gilmour in. He’s 17th all-time in scoring, won a Cup with Calgary and played hard. Adam Oates doesn’t have a Cup, and that will hurt him, but he’s 16th all-time in points and one of the best playmakers the game has seen. And I’d put in Mike Vernon ahead of Tom Barrasso. Barrasso only won 30+ plus games twice, while Vernon did it five times. Both have two Cups. Vernon has more wins in both the playoffs and regular season, and considering how much smaller he was, I think he did more with less. Who would you put in?
  • The Oilers, Canucks and Flames probably won’t have a chance to grab him, but the name I keep hearing from scouts is Ryan Johansen. The 17-year-old is 6’3” and 190, and some scouts think he’ll only get bigger, stronger and better. He’s projected to go 10th-13th, and the Ducks really like him.
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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#1 I'm a Scientist!
May 06 2010, 10:34AM
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LA wins this epic battle... although i have never wanted to be a can of Dr. Pepper so badly in my life.

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Diet Dr.Pepper is that for Brownlee?

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As for that Hall question I would have to think that Mogilny should be in there. He had a good on ice career 1000+ points in less then 1000games, has the cup, multiple all-star games and his defect from Russia started a trend of Russians to the NHL. He kinda has the player/builder all in one, so that is why I'd vote him in.

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Not sure that Recchi is really a suprise he hasn't really shown that his age has hurt him during the past few seasons, but Satan is sure a suprise.

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#5 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
May 06 2010, 10:57AM
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I'm a Scientist! wrote:

LA wins this epic battle... although i have never wanted to be a can of Dr. Pepper so badly in my life.

i honestly had to look multiple times to try and figure out what you were talking about.

too many distractions!!!!!!!!

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#6 BUCK75
May 06 2010, 10:57AM
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I vote for Mike Vernon to be in the HOF, as much as it pains me as an Oilers fan. He had a solid career. If it took Anderson a long time to get in because of his "media relations" I would think Tom Barrasso will be inducted at 75.

I think the fatal flaw in the Habs is the depth. It would be a miracle to beat the Penguins playing 9 forwards a game. I'm impressed by Subban though. I was wondering why MAB was getting so much ice time in the first 2 games, but I see Subban has corrected that.

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#7 DougWeightProblem
May 06 2010, 11:04AM
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Just a point on Thornton: Ilya Kovalchuk is also on your top ten list for regular season points, but has done squat in the playoffs (when he's made them).

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#8 Lisa McRitchie
May 06 2010, 11:05AM
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@BUCK75

You are not an Oilers fan, that is all. tsk

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@DougWeightProblem

He did quite well this year, not his fault the rest of the team didn't play 100%.

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#10 BUCK75
May 06 2010, 11:12AM
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@Lisa McRitchie

Karma will come around on Tom Barrasso. Vernon wins by default. Plus Barrasso has a jerk face, he can't help being a dick. He allegedly beat up a guy in a bar & didn't want to answer questions about it...

http://bit.ly/9Bt7x7

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#11 Dyckster
May 06 2010, 11:21AM
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I'm a Scientist! wrote:

LA wins this epic battle... although i have never wanted to be a can of Dr. Pepper so badly in my life.

I for one find the placement of the Panther quite the unintended? coincidence. Panther, part of the cat family, cat's have little cats, sometimes little cats are referred to as PUSSY cats......

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#12 BBOil
May 06 2010, 11:30AM
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I think Oates, Gilmour, Andreychuk, and Vernon would make for a good induction class. I like Nieuwendyk and Turgeon too, but don't see them as first ballot guys.

Sidebar - On that fifth Hawks goal last night did anyone else think Roberto may have pushed himself in the net. Looked like he raised his blocker and pushed off Kane. No doubt there was lots of traffic, but I don't think it was just Buff jamming him in there.

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#13 Lisa McRitchie
May 06 2010, 11:31AM
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@BUCK75

Garner would be so proud of you for bringing jerk face in a regular sentence!

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#14 Petr's Jofa
May 06 2010, 11:53AM
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It could be my hate that is blinding me, but was Burnin' Vernon ever a difference maker or was he just a good goalie with very good teams in front of him? I don't ever remember fearing Vernon like a Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, or Hextal. Did he ever make a team Canada?

I Wiki-ed it and it says he has a Conn Smythe and 5 all-star apperances, so maybe he does deserve consideration.

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#15 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
May 06 2010, 11:53AM
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LOL....A man launching his rocket and a bunch of scantily clad girls, is this still a hockey website.

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#16 Puritania
May 06 2010, 12:22PM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

LOL....A man launching his rocket and a bunch of scantily clad girls, is this still a hockey website.

Gregor, Nation, cease and desist this ludicrous talk of things non-Oiler. Get back to the mind numbing Hall/Seguin debate!

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#17 Rob in Toronto
May 06 2010, 12:50PM
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I'd have to think that Joe Nieuwendyk and Doug Gilmour are guarantees for the HOF. And I agree that Vernon should be in over Barrasso.

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#18 Senator Theo
May 06 2010, 01:07PM
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You spend a whole article taking about who makes the Hall - how about equal time for who should make the Seguin?

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#19 Twiggs
May 06 2010, 01:20PM
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@Senator Theo

I hear construction isn't quite complete on the Seguin the Hall has been completed for a while now... ;)

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#20 Westcoastoil
May 06 2010, 01:35PM
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Isn't it just a little bizarre that Bob Newhart looks younger than Kim Mitchell. I never would have recognized Mitchell without his 3 foot mullet and OPP hat

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#21 Senator Theo
May 06 2010, 01:53PM
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Twiggs wrote:

I hear construction isn't quite complete on the Seguin the Hall has been completed for a while now... ;)

In all fairness, the Hall has had an extra year of development. It's not fair to compare where they're at right now...;)

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#22 Senator Theo
May 06 2010, 01:54PM
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That picture of Bob Newhart looks 20 years old. Is that a calculator watch he's wearing?

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#23 The Towel Boy
May 07 2010, 09:46AM
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Senator Theo wrote:

That picture of Bob Newhart looks 20 years old. Is that a calculator watch he's wearing?

You know, that does look like a calculator watch.

Those were wicked inventions. I mean the ability to add and subtract as well as make sure you didn't miss Ninja Turtles at 4pm was a truly remarkable advancement in technology. Wayyy ahead of its time. I guess that's why they never really caught on in the mainstream.

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