Kotalik to be bought out?

RossCreekNation
June 28 2010 10:57AM

 

News from the twitterverse via TSN's Bob McKenzie:

Waivers, likely for buyout purposes: Cheechoo, Ott; Nokelainen, Vandermeer, Phx; Koistinen, Fla; Kotalik, Cgy.

From CapGeek.com:

Ales Kotalik is 31 years old on the buyout date of June 28, 2010, putting the total buyout cost at $4,000,000 spread over 4 years. His contract was originally valued at $9,000,000 with an annual cap hit of $3,000,000 beginning in 2009 and ending in 2012. The following is a season-by-season breakdown of the buyout. A negative buyout cap hit number indicates a credit.

ALES KOTALIK BUYOUT FROM CAPGEEK.COM
2010-2011: $1,000,000
2011-2012: $1,000,000
2012-2013: $1,000,000
2013-2014: $1,000,000


Interesting times lay ahead for the Flames. How dealing Olli Jokinen's expiring contract & cap space for Kotalik, only to buy him out makes sense is anyone's guess. Personally, I was hoping they'd loan him to a KHL team and get him off the books completely!

B86f958f55fc25c5fcc990b8ac2c9283
A hockey-crazed Flames fan living in Oil Country, he was born & raised to hate the Oilers from day 1. Since he couldn't cut it as a player, and his dream jobs of 'NHL Insider', NHL General Manager, or Snoop Dogg 'advisor' aren't currently options, a lifetime of "internetting" awaits. For the latest hockey talk, along with all kinds of Flames & Oilers chatter, you can follow on twitter.com/RossCreekNation.
Avatar
#1 Kent Wilson
June 28 2010, 11:08AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

The Jokinen trade has gone from bad to absolute farce.

Avatar
#3 Kent Wilson
June 28 2010, 11:16AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Yup. Why Sutter didn't just trade Jokinen for some mid-round draft pick is beyond me.

If the Flames end up buying out Kotalik, is there any other word to describe this stuff than incompetence? I don't think there is.

Avatar
#4 R O
June 28 2010, 11:21AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

If the Flames end up buying out Kotalik, is there any other word to describe this stuff than incompetence? I don't think there is.

You could say that if the Flames buy out Kotalik and don't re-sign Higgins to a nice contract.

If they do re-sign Higgins then they've essentially paid $1M x 4 for the right of first negotiation. You could (and I would) seriously question Sutter's ability to properly value player rights, but at least they added a good player that way.

Anyways, in my mind I had it that we probably had the ability to re-sign one of Higgins and White even with Kotalik on the roster. This move indicates a couple things: 1.) The Jokinen trade really was about Higgins. That's a little scary but there it is. 2.) One of Higgins and White is likley playing hardball.

Avatar
#6 Kent Wilson
June 28 2010, 11:26AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Paying that much to get negotiating rights to Higgins is still nonsense. I like Higgins, perhaps more than is warranted based on his play here, but that's a hefty price to pay for a guy you could have signed in July anyways.

Avatar
#7 JF
June 28 2010, 11:27AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Uhg. Matt Lombardi + Brandon Prust + The money to re-up Cammi + a First round draft pick (Gormley) in exchange for -$1'000'000.00 in cap space for the next 4 years. God I hope this is just to see if someone else will take him off our hands for free.

Bravo Darryl, Bravo.

Avatar
#8 R O
June 28 2010, 11:27AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Paying that much to get negotiating rights to Higgins is still nonsense. I like Higgins, perhaps more than is warranted based on his play here, but that's a hefty price to pay for a guy you could have signed in July anyways.

What I keep trying to say to myself is that it's not my money :-D

Avatar
#9 Kent Wilson
June 28 2010, 11:31AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

On the other hand...maybe someone will claim Kotalik, saving us the whole thing??

Avatar
#11 Kent Wilson
June 28 2010, 11:37AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
RossCreekNation wrote:

Maybe they could deal him to Ottawa for Cheechoo and then buy HIM out...

2010-2011: $666,667
2011-2012: $1,166,667

Perhaps OTT would rather have Ales than buyout or bury Cheech.

That could work.

There's always the Olesz option too...

Avatar
#12 R O
June 28 2010, 11:40AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Staios down to the Heat saves the Flames $2.7MM in cap space and costs them $2.2MM in real money.

Then come next season, a buyout of Kotalik costs them $1MM in cap space for that year and the year after and costs them $2M in real money.

All in all, the accounting seems like it would have made more sense for Staios to go first this year, then Kotalik next. They spend $200k more in real cash, with about $1.2M payable now instead of four years from now (which is a big deal but not a deal-breaker IMO) and the cap numbers look better.

Buying out Kotalik first makes no sense. UNLESS.

Unless they aren't done yet. And I doubt they are, I said from day one that the Staios trade was going to be a very VERY expensive rental.

Avatar
#13 Casey Woods
June 28 2010, 11:42AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@Kent Wilson

I imagine Sutter had to take salary back in order to move Jokinen. How many teams had space for his contract mid-season and were willing to use it all on Jokinen? We traded our problem for New York's problem.

Avatar
#14 Robert Cleave
June 28 2010, 11:43AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
Kent Wilson wrote:

That could work.

There's always the Olesz option too...

If they wanted to go the Olesz route, they would have already needed to make the deal so that they could waive him. I'm not sure how late on Wednesday you can offer a buyout to a player, but even if it's 5PM ET, they'd have to acquire him, then waive him tomorrow. That's kinda tight. The Cheechoo thing would work if Ottawa were interested in Ales as a player, but I suspect that, like the Flames, they think they can do better than AK or JC by freeing up a couple of mil in cap space.

Avatar
#15 Kent Wilson
June 28 2010, 11:45AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
Casey Woods wrote:

I imagine Sutter had to take salary back in order to move Jokinen. How many teams had space for his contract mid-season and were willing to use it all on Jokinen? We traded our problem for New York's problem.

Possibly. Sutter should have eaten the Jokinen contract then, or at least waited to peddle him at the deadline.

Here's hoping there's some other play here and not a straight buy-out.

Avatar
#16 Lawrence
June 28 2010, 11:46AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
R O wrote:

If the Flames end up buying out Kotalik, is there any other word to describe this stuff than incompetence? I don't think there is.

You could say that if the Flames buy out Kotalik and don't re-sign Higgins to a nice contract.

If they do re-sign Higgins then they've essentially paid $1M x 4 for the right of first negotiation. You could (and I would) seriously question Sutter's ability to properly value player rights, but at least they added a good player that way.

Anyways, in my mind I had it that we probably had the ability to re-sign one of Higgins and White even with Kotalik on the roster. This move indicates a couple things: 1.) The Jokinen trade really was about Higgins. That's a little scary but there it is. 2.) One of Higgins and White is likley playing hardball.

I know it's really silly for me to reflect back on my own thoughts about this, but when people were asking for Joker and Phaneuf to be traded mid-season, this is the mess I worried we would be in, and why I hated those ideas.

It's rapidly becoming a huge hole and we're just digging deeper and deeper.

The possibility stands to be:

Dion Phaneuf + Matt Lombardi + 1st (Brandon Gormley) + Prust (x2) + Sjostrom

for

.5 - 1 season of limited effectiveness from the reinforcements and a 10th place finish

and

Matt Stajan (3.5) + Niklas Hagman (3.0) + -1million cap hit (4 years) , -2 roster players + negotiating rights at White and Higgins.

Now, White could turn into picks/OR be re-signed at what value?...but...

Holy hell.

Avatar
#19 Kent Wilson
June 28 2010, 11:59AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Err...why would the Flames want more centers?

Avatar
#21 Graham
June 28 2010, 12:20PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Buying out Kotalik sounds like a desperation move, could this be tied to Sutter's failure to dump salaries during the draft?

I just don't see how Sutter can justify buying out Kotalik, he must have some other plan? If we loaned out Kotalik to an KHL team are we allowed to subsidize part of salary?

Avatar
#23 Kent Wilson
June 28 2010, 12:25PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

We'll have to see what happens, really. At this point, Kotalik is on waivers and nothing more. Sutter has pulled this stunt before with Warrener and Eriksson and neither were bought out.

Avatar
#25 Nolan
June 28 2010, 12:38PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

If this is true, is there any other reason why Sutter should have been fired? Higgins shouldnt be back, Kotalik was a bust (any doubt he would be). The team is agains the cap, and he's going to pay $1M to have a guy sign with another team? I bet he takes off to Europe. Kinda reminds me of the Steve Miller Band song, "Take the money and run". But wait didnt Darryl say he's a 20 goal scorer and the best checker on the team and he's worth every penny?

Avatar
#26 FlamesFan87
June 28 2010, 12:51PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@Nolan

If Sutter said Kotalik is the Best Checker on the team? (find me a quote) That alone stands for his dismissal. (But i want DSutts to stay, just i don't think he'd say that)

I understand this guy was a joke, but for some reason i just don't think that deal was planned to have Kotalik playing as a Flame. I personally think Sutter was stocking up players for a possible Kovalchuck/ Other Big Name Trade, that fell through.

I am pretty sure Kotalik had a No-Trade to 5 teams and Calgary was one of them! For him to come here they must've told him he's being packaged as a deal, or SOMETHING.

Either way i don't want this lazy waste of roster/cap space on the ice in a flames jersey next year unless he has been completely JAROMED in attitude and effort level!

Avatar
#27 Nolan
June 28 2010, 01:14PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@FlamesFan87

Sutter said that on the Fan960 when they were asking about Ales. He mentioned he led the team in checks during his time here. I believe the link is available on the Fan's website. P. Stein would probably know better. As for his no trade to Cow town, I got the feeling it was, "Go to Calgary or sit at home".

I agree i didnt see him back but i thought it would be in Europe as a loner.

Avatar
#28 B
June 28 2010, 01:25PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
Kent Wilson wrote:

The Jokinen trade has gone from bad to absolute farce.

...for the first time ever, I agree with you Kent.

WOW. BAD TRADE.

...maybe Sutter has some magic waiting for us in the cupboard.

WOW. BAD TRADE.

Avatar
#30 Nolan
June 28 2010, 01:52PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

looks like White is going to Arbitration.

Avatar
#31 Section 216
June 28 2010, 01:54PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props

Good to see a deal may be reached before arbitration but just like Darryl Sutter I take everything that Nick Kypreos says with a grain of salt.

Avatar
#32 icedawg_42
June 28 2010, 02:08PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

I agree about Kypreos - wouldn't surprise me at all if White goes to arb.

Avatar
#33 SmellOfVictory
June 28 2010, 02:13PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@RossCreekNation

If that's true, that's a really dumb qualifying offer.

Avatar
#35 Brent G.
June 28 2010, 02:40PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

So Boston wants a offensive defender, and are waiving Savard out there now. Has anyone ever thought of the potential to trade White to Boston for Savard? I can see White getting about 3 mill in a contract and Savards cap hit is 4 million. Seems almost perfect to me. Then they trade Stajan for a 2nd rounder after free agency hits and thats how Sutter redeems himself on the Phaneuf trade.

Avatar
#36 Balthazar
June 28 2010, 02:46PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

I expect this will be like Warrener and others who were waived as a way to see if there was any interest. I assume there is little to none, and that Kots will be back in red this autumn.

But maybe there is a strategy here (that I thought was going to be employed with past efforts but wasn't).

If I understand the CBA correctly, the following could happen:

1) if the Flames sent him down to the AHL he could be selected off waivers - i.e this exercise. The new team would pckup his salary and cap hit and the Flames would get nothing back.

2) if the Flames then brought him back up to the NHL again he could be claimed by another team and they (the new team) would be on the hook for 1/2 of his salary and cap hit, while the Flames would take the other half. So $1.5/yr for 2 years vs. $1.0 for 4.

If accurate, this may be better than buying a player out in some circumstances as it limits the time his 1/2 salary is on the books to the length of the contract rather than double the contract length.

Maybe someone would pick him up at $1.5/ for 2 years. Stil with nothing coming to the Flames but a bill for $1.5 mill. (which for the Flames is worse than being picked up on the way down)

I'm not saying that this would absolve Daz of picking up Kotalik in the first place...

It jus might be a thought that's rattling around Daz's head. In any case, it's a clear message that a mistake was made in acquiring Kotalik and will form one of the worst trade-chains in Flames history (as described above very well)

Avatar
#38 B
June 28 2010, 03:51PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@RossCreekNation

...from my understanding the AHL salary is 10% of the NHL cap hit.

Avatar
#39 rubbertrout
June 28 2010, 03:53PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
Kent Wilson wrote:

On the other hand...maybe someone will claim Kotalik, saving us the whole thing??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh . . . you weren't joking? The only guy dumb enough to do this would be the idiot that traded a low end UFA and a 3rd round pick for Staios--unfortunately Sutter can't fleece himself so I think he's stuck with this incompetent move.

Wasn't Ales part of the team that Sutter really liked but that just needed more time to gel and maybe one or two more players? What a joke.

Avatar
#40 Kent Wilson
June 28 2010, 03:57PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
rubbertrout wrote:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh . . . you weren't joking? The only guy dumb enough to do this would be the idiot that traded a low end UFA and a 3rd round pick for Staios--unfortunately Sutter can't fleece himself so I think he's stuck with this incompetent move.

Wasn't Ales part of the team that Sutter really liked but that just needed more time to gel and maybe one or two more players? What a joke.

Yes, I was joking.

Avatar
#41 rubbertrout
June 28 2010, 03:59PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@Kent Wilson

I figured as much. I just love to take every opportunity to remind the flames about getting fleeced by Tambellini. There aren't too many GM's that can say that they were outsmarted by Tambo.

Avatar
#42 Kent Wilson
June 28 2010, 04:17PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props
rubbertrout wrote:

I figured as much. I just love to take every opportunity to remind the flames about getting fleeced by Tambellini. There aren't too many GM's that can say that they were outsmarted by Tambo.

Or Glen Sather.

Avatar
#43 rubbertrout
June 28 2010, 04:52PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@Kent Wilson

Props to that one.

Avatar
#44 Jay
June 28 2010, 05:12PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

my God. the flames are going from the frying pan to the BBQ. so sad. how do we let the poor management get away with it all. while trading phaneuf was a good idea, we should have got alot more, and we should'nt be trading with a loosing team. Even tho its a good idea to trade with burke, cuz he's not playing with a full deck. i don't see how any of our previous trades have helped us. a prime example is Staois. we picked up another defensive guy and we already have a strong defense. we needed offence!!! dam n what were they thinking?

Avatar
#45 marty
June 28 2010, 06:37PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
RossCreekNation wrote:

I said it from the moment the trade was announced - It would have made more sense if Kotalik was an impending UFA at $3M and Chris Higgins had 2 years left at his $2.25M cap hit. As a Sutter supporter, I'm at a loss for words... there's gotta be a method to the madness, no?

Whatever it is, I have yet to understand it.

Im with ya RC im a supporter too but this is starting to lose me. I was one that was a lombo supporter too (i think in this system he could have had the success as in phoenix) but i did not like that deal from the start. if it was straight up lombo for joker i could have lived it. i never understood why there was a 1st rounder put in there. But this is snowballing into something i can not even describe. The only thought i have is that could restore my faith is maybe there is something to the spezza deal? and hypothetically lets say it was the rumored reg and lanks for spezza. maybe the flames and sens trade garbage for garbage as a throw in for the trade? that is why both players went on waivers the last day before buyouts and if one team won the lotto and someone picked up either player the deal would fall apart? i think we will know for sure by wednesday evening cause if the sens pay that 4 mil he aint going nowhere. i don't know. going to have milskey now cause i don't know what else to do...

Avatar
#46 JaromeAwesome
June 28 2010, 10:10PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Awful moves by Sutter, he has brought great shame to the Flames, and the fan base this year. He got fleeced by Burke for Dion, and then one of the dumbest GM's in the NHL, Glenn Sather fleeces Sutter. This act of buffounery must come to a end, and Ken King, and his bull riding patna Darryl Sutter need to be shown the exit door ASAP. If they are not fired, this team will be in horrible shape, and more shameful acts will await us in the future.

Avatar
#47 Calgary1848
June 29 2010, 04:03AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Sutter will send Kotalik down in the AHL. Kotalik will not play there und go back to europe and will cost the flames 0 $ !

Comments are closed for this article.