STUPID FLYERS WIN, COYOTES TO STAY PUT?

Wanye
June 05 2010 07:35PM

Stupid Flyers tie up the stupid series and stupid Pronger probably thinks his puck stealing antics might have tipped the scales. And now the NHL - who had a great idea with this backwards footage commercials - pump them out like there's no tomorrow.

UGH.

Instead of debating that into the ground, lets talk some more about the City of Glendale, which is determined to hang on to it's beloved Coyotes regardless of cost or how hooped their economy already is.

FIRST THE FACTS

Pity if you will for a moment the conundrum of Glendale, Arizona, with the City of Winnipeg charging hard to reclaim the Jets and bring them back to the ice and snow. Add in the NHL, impossibly owning the team and looking for every reason to keep an unprofitable US franchise firmly in place. You know cause that long awaited National TV deal is right around the corner.

Finally there is the City of Glendale looking to do anything and everything possible to entice a new owner to come to Arizona and piddle their money away for another decade.

Since the Coyotes moved to Glendale in 2003 they have reportedly has lost $200 million-plus. This is amazing when you consider that the team moved out to Glendale from it's original arena with the vague idea they would make more money in a new arena. Enter the spaciously elegant - and heavily subsidized - jobing.com arena with it's luxury boxes, luxury seats and luxury towncars.

Sounds like a recipe to print money right?

Wrong.

Two years after the move into the new arena Coyotes owner Steve Ellman seemed to understand that the team wasn't going to make money until the Mayan Calendar turns over again, so he sold the team to trucking magnate Jerry Moyes in 2005.

Moyes continued the tradition of cheerfully propping up team losses until his natonal trucking company got shellacked by the one two punch of increased fuel prices and decreased freight traffic due to the overall crappiness of the American economy, which we estimates looks like this:

Which also had the effect of making the Glendale property prices go like this:

 

The fortunes of the Coyotes haven't been helped by the Coyotes themselves, who have played something like this:

And now Glendale faces the real chance the Coyotes will leave town unless their spending to subsidize the team goes like this:

Which, amongst cash strapped and underwater Glendale citizens is about as popular as this:

But knowing that the Coyotes are the anchor tenant of a half built entertainment district that can't attract financing already Glendale is in a real pickle. The hope that the sports and entertainment distruct will ultimately bring in much needed tax dollars and  help put the City back on it's feet has left the City Council looking something like this:

AND NOW THE DEBATE

Knowing all of this background information, one has to admire the Glendale City Council. These cats are determined to work with the NHL (who is in an extraordinary conflict of interest owning the franchise) and Ice Edge Holdings, which is in the running to keep the team in the desert for the forseeable future.

Together they are "working on the major parts of the deal," which is getting more lopsided and unbelievable by the day.

Under the terms of a Memorandum of Understanding just released recently by the City of Glendale:

"The Buyer (of the Coyotes) will assign to the City ... the right to manage, operate and receive revenues of the Parking Improvements and the related parking facilities for the Arena.

The (City of Glendale) will pay the Buyer an annual fee for granting the City the right to manage and operate the Parking Improvements (the “Parking Operations Fee”), which shall be payable in monthly installments equal to the amount of net parking fees collected, with any amount of the Parking Operations Fee not paid in monthly installments paid in full at year end."

Yes, yes. We can hear you now:

"Well that's just fantastic Wanye. You have sullied my weekend with heavy graphing and a smattering of legalese. Condense it down for a fella will you?"

This basically means that the City of Glendale is going to guarantee the Coyotes $7.5 million per season in parking revenue as part of a larger strategic plan to "bend-over-backwards-and-take-one-in-the-rear."

If that isn't enough - along with a heavily subsidized arena to begin with - the City is also prepared to guarantee $10 million in additional losses annually.

COMPARING PHX TO EDM

When people speak of the City of Edmonton "wasting money on an NHL team" by owning the proposed arena, we think it's important to look at what wasting money really looks like. The civic debt of Glendale, AZ is twice the national average during a time when virtually every City Council in the US gulp nervously when their own debt comes for renewal. 

Everyone who lives in a City that can ill afford to be throwing more money after bad please stand up:

Exactly.

We would have to say that this type of fiscal activity borders on reckless, considering the dire financial state of the City of Glendale and the amount of money it has already pumped into the area.

The City has bet big on Pro Sports being a large part of the service economy in the City of only 225,000 tax payers, having been a large part of the continued funding of the Coyotes, the Jobing.com arena, an NFL arena and a pair of spring training facilities.

WHOOPS

It is becoming increasingly clear that the plan has failed and the people of Glendale are starting to freak out too. 

Reports the Arizona Republic:

"I think (the City Council of Glendale) did do a good job for a while," said (Glendale Resient) Jones, 77. "But this wild spending ... they went overboard. Their legacy will be they are the people that have left Glendale hopelessly in debt." Jones is referring to the hundreds of millions of dollars Glendale invested to turn farm fields in the western part of the city into a bustling sports and entertainment district.

The area is now home to professional football and hockey, spring-training baseball and dozens of new restaurants and businesses, bringing jobs and tax revenue along the way.

And, as the economy falters, the city's promises for the area's growth have not all panned out. The shopping complex Westgate City Center is behind its building schedule, the Phoenix Coyotes were on the verge of leaving after the hockey team's owner declared bankruptcy this summer and the retail center planned around the spring-training ballpark hasn't broken ground.

The developer, HB Equities LLC, still can't find financing. Jones is worried that Glendale's debt levels could endanger funding for services like police, sewers or streetlights, though city officials have repeatedly touted plans to pay off debt quickly without impact on services to residents."

IN CONCLUSION WE CONCLUDE

Increasingly the fortunes of Cities and their Pro Sports teams have become more and more intertwined. Down in Glendale they have a City of a quarter million residents, with little economic momentum who has already pumped hundreds of millions into four seperate stadiums, a heavily subsidized sports and entertainment district and has footed the bill for parts of the operations of its Pro teams.

Here in conservative ol' Edmonton we have an arena that was funded jointly by City, Provincial and Federal dollars waaaaay back in 1974.  In the 36 years hence, it is fair to say that this building has been paid off and owes the tax payers of the three governments little if anything else.

The long and steady utilization of the publicly funded arena for nearly a half of a century hardly smacks of financial mismanagement. A repeat of the project some 40 years later will result in a similar run of prosperous operation until the year 2054 if the building lives to be the same age.

And unlike the fortunes of Glendale, things seem to be mercifully stable up here in the frozen snow.

Did we mention we hate Chris Pronger? And love arenas? And feel sorry for Glendale?

Good. Now it's time to go out and party.

09049f03ecb006ab29372206f2a88f75
Blog so hard motherf**ckers try and find me. Email me at wanyegretz@gmail.com or tweet me @wanyegretz provided it is about Jordan Eberle or babes.
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#1 Tha Legion
June 05 2010, 07:41PM
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I like math!

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#3 Bob
June 05 2010, 08:10PM
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yeah go flyers... down with kane and the hawks. period.

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#4 nakedmike
June 05 2010, 08:18PM
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Hey Wanye, good read. Do you think Chris Pronger would come back if we made a statue of him and put it next to Gretzky?

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#6 lySix9
June 05 2010, 08:40PM
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Classic graphs, great read. Smart wanye swung by on the way to the bar I see lol

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#7 Matt Henderson
June 05 2010, 08:54PM
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My liberal arts degrees prevent me from understanding anything written on a graph. All I got was something something Arizona smells like the slow decomposition of the elderly.

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#8 Crooked
June 05 2010, 09:09PM
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The entire move to Phoenix was a complete disaster from day one. Poor planning at every level.

The thing that's messed up is the city can't afford having the team leave, and they can't afford to keep the team there either.

This whole situation is going to get a lot worse before it gets any better. Winnipeg won't get their team back, but they probably will get the Thrashers in 2-3 years.

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#10 Matt Henderson
June 05 2010, 09:27PM
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Wanye wrote:

Agreed. And there wasn't even space to talk about that "No ID - straight to jail" law Arizona recently enacted.

That speaks to the social fabric of the state starting to rip. $17.5 million more for this? Aren't there bigger problems right now?

Are you kidding? I cant wait for Raffi Torres or Scott Gomez to be accidentally deported to Mexico after being pulled over by the cops for "out tail-lights".

This is about to get fun.

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#12 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
June 05 2010, 09:44PM
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Matt Henderson wrote:

Are you kidding? I cant wait for Raffi Torres or Scott Gomez to be accidentally deported to Mexico after being pulled over by the cops for "out tail-lights".

This is about to get fun.

All I'm reading is "City of Glendale agrees to discounted price for sale of 2011 Winnipeg Jets".

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#13 SirFozz
June 05 2010, 10:22PM
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@ Archaeologuy

Hey, my second son was just born yesterday and I was thinking your daughter is the perfect age for him. What do ya think? ;)

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#14 jeanshorts
June 06 2010, 01:19AM
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Wanye wrote:

And Torres would be deported to where exactly? Columbia?

Ba-ZING

Probably back to Toon Town

http://handsomedonkey.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Judge-Doom1.jpg

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#16 I Am The Law
June 06 2010, 03:55AM
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Wayne, you're right that the situation in Phoenix sucks. But, what are the alternatives?

1) Put the team on hiatus: This would create an unbalanced league, schedule, etc., and usually when things go into hiatus, they tend not to come back (Arena Football League came "back from hiatus", but really came back from bankruptcy).

2) Fold the team: Same problems as above. While I'm a fan of folding, say, four teams, I can see why the owners may not be as excited, not to mention the hit the NHL would take in being seen as a "Major League".

3) Move the team to Winnipeg or Quebec City: Any arena built in these cities, will likely be done so with public money as well. Not to mention that outside of the provincial government and Canadian Forces, I don't know of any large business presence in these cities that would fill up luxury boxes. However, local law firms, and other businesses might. I could be wrong.

4) Move the team somewhere else: Would hockey catch on in Kansas City? Would Seattle cough up for a new arena after the Sonics debacle? I'm not particularly convinced, and you might end up with the same problems five years from now.

5) Leave the team as it is and try to find an owner: This is what is happening now. The NHL takes a hit, but doesn't have to re-arrange the schedule/league. There are business entities that will buy boxes, but maybe not fill them. A winning season might also do some good. Remember, back in 2000, Nashville was drawing more fans than Edmonton, Vancouver, and Calgary...

I don't like to see cities get fleeced for new arenas, and I hope that the people of Edmonton don't get suckered, either (as bad as a new arena is needed). But, don't harp on Glendale for thinking it could create a new commercial center based on sports. There are economists still churning out books saying this works (despite loads of evidence to the contrary), and it seems that it is the same thing being pushed for in Edmonton.

Also, keep in mind that the original lease was for, I believe, 30 years. That would have been similar to the situation in Edmonton, if it worked out. But it wouldn't have been so "brilliant" if the Oilers left in the '90s. Hindsight is 20/20.

The whole situation sucks, and I think that if the NHL practiced some transparency, some of the pain could have been reduced. But this is the situation that exists now, and it's a shame that more people who care about hockey aren't trying to think of ways to get out of this.

(Personally, I'd try to find a buyer in Seattle, but one who'd commit for ten years, given the tepidness of fans in the Pacific Northwest...not a diss, just an observation from 12 years of living there...but I could be very wrong with that suggestion)

P.S. I agree that there are more important things than hockey for Glendale to be worrying about. But that's a different topic for another day.

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#17 Ribs
June 06 2010, 04:10AM
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That shirtless pic is pretty funny. I was once in a tournament in Calgary and some of my teammates decided to do the same thing. I opted out, myself. A burly security guard ordered them all to put their shirts back on.

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#18 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
June 06 2010, 08:35AM
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I Am The Law wrote:

Wayne, you're right that the situation in Phoenix sucks. But, what are the alternatives?

1) Put the team on hiatus: This would create an unbalanced league, schedule, etc., and usually when things go into hiatus, they tend not to come back (Arena Football League came "back from hiatus", but really came back from bankruptcy).

2) Fold the team: Same problems as above. While I'm a fan of folding, say, four teams, I can see why the owners may not be as excited, not to mention the hit the NHL would take in being seen as a "Major League".

3) Move the team to Winnipeg or Quebec City: Any arena built in these cities, will likely be done so with public money as well. Not to mention that outside of the provincial government and Canadian Forces, I don't know of any large business presence in these cities that would fill up luxury boxes. However, local law firms, and other businesses might. I could be wrong.

4) Move the team somewhere else: Would hockey catch on in Kansas City? Would Seattle cough up for a new arena after the Sonics debacle? I'm not particularly convinced, and you might end up with the same problems five years from now.

5) Leave the team as it is and try to find an owner: This is what is happening now. The NHL takes a hit, but doesn't have to re-arrange the schedule/league. There are business entities that will buy boxes, but maybe not fill them. A winning season might also do some good. Remember, back in 2000, Nashville was drawing more fans than Edmonton, Vancouver, and Calgary...

I don't like to see cities get fleeced for new arenas, and I hope that the people of Edmonton don't get suckered, either (as bad as a new arena is needed). But, don't harp on Glendale for thinking it could create a new commercial center based on sports. There are economists still churning out books saying this works (despite loads of evidence to the contrary), and it seems that it is the same thing being pushed for in Edmonton.

Also, keep in mind that the original lease was for, I believe, 30 years. That would have been similar to the situation in Edmonton, if it worked out. But it wouldn't have been so "brilliant" if the Oilers left in the '90s. Hindsight is 20/20.

The whole situation sucks, and I think that if the NHL practiced some transparency, some of the pain could have been reduced. But this is the situation that exists now, and it's a shame that more people who care about hockey aren't trying to think of ways to get out of this.

(Personally, I'd try to find a buyer in Seattle, but one who'd commit for ten years, given the tepidness of fans in the Pacific Northwest...not a diss, just an observation from 12 years of living there...but I could be very wrong with that suggestion)

P.S. I agree that there are more important things than hockey for Glendale to be worrying about. But that's a different topic for another day.

Winnipeg won't be building a new arena.

A few area businesses that are sure to buy boxes if the Jets return:

Manitoba Telecom Services
Ipsos Reid
Canwest
Palliser Furniture
Great-West Life Assurance
Motor Coach Industries
New Flyer Industries
Boeing Canada Technology
Bristol Aerospace
Nygård International
Canad Inns
Investors Group

Not to mention the ridiculous amount of public sector businesses like Manitoba Public Insurance (who heavily support the Manitoba Moose). I think you vastly underestimate corporate Winnipeg.

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#19 RossCreekNation
June 06 2010, 09:22AM
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Wanye wrote:

And Torres would be deported to where exactly? Columbia?

Ba-ZING

Haha... Raffi Escobar

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#20 RossCreekNation
June 06 2010, 09:25AM
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@Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things

JetsNation! JetsNation! JetsNation! JetsNation! JetsNation! JetsNation! JetsNation!

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#21 RossCreekNation
June 06 2010, 09:30AM
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@I Am The Law

Not sure Seattle builds a new arena. That would be nice. After losing the Sonics, hopefully they decide they better build a new arena to lure an NHL/NBA team back. I'd love to see an NHL team in Seattle, but I have my doubts they get a building with any public money involved. Portland, on the other hand, has a suitable building in place. I'd love to see Paul Allen just decide one day "hey, after lunch, I think I'm going to go buy an NHL team". THAT would be awesome. Portland Panthers?

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#22 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
June 06 2010, 09:57AM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

JetsNation! JetsNation! JetsNation! JetsNation! JetsNation! JetsNation! JetsNation!

I'm waiting for the day when I can chronicle my soon-to-be most recent trip to see the Oil in person.

Oh! I also forgot to mention the smaller businesses that go halfers on luxury boxes. Hell, that's how the average Joe affords season tickets - right?

The insurance brokerage I used to work for goes in with some company that engineers lasers and whatnot. They gave the box out as a reward for top producer (which was me, more often that not).

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#23 Harlie
June 06 2010, 10:04AM
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My uncle has a winter home in the Phoenix area and the City Council in his area voted AGAINST having street lights in their City. They couldn't justify paying taxes for the street lights and the people who live in that area have lost 2/3 of their homes value in the last 2 years.

I was down there in March and I couldn't and still can't believe that you can buy a 2400 sq ft house with a pool for under and in some cases well under 100k.

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#27 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
June 06 2010, 10:24AM
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Wanye wrote:

Revenue Canada's large presence in Winnipeg has spawned a massive service industry in the legal and financial sectos in WPG too.

Some of Canada's highest paid tax lawyers and auditors live in WPG and would toss mad skrilla at Les Jets.

I wonder who owns the Jets trademarks nowadays? Someone is pocketing cash whenever Jets gear is sold...

Oh I know. There are some pretty big corporate law firms here like Aikins, McAuley and Thorvaldson, too. My ex's dad was a partner there. We saw NIN in that box, once.

Manitoba Public Insurance is a crown corporation that tosses cash at hockey. I remember one game last year where they bought all of the upper-bowl tickets and gave them to elementary school patrols on the condition that they all wear their orange safety vests. Then they gave them traffic-pylon-orange thunder sticks. The energy that night was insane.

For my betting money, I'm putting a hefty wager on the fact that Jets merch brings in more cheddar than Atlanta, Phoenix, Florida, and current-day NYI put together. There's more Jets merch in sports stores here than there is for 'flavour-of-the-year' NHL teams, and it -sells-. Kind of pathetic when a city of 700,000 people who haven't had a team for 15 years can out-sell a city whose team made the playoffs this year.

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#28 RossCreekNation
June 06 2010, 12:55PM
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Wanye wrote:

Did you see that guy on FN say he would rather gouge his eyes out with a pen then read my 'douchebag articles from up North?'

I have half a mind to find this guy and pants him, then take his girlfriend for a steak dinner and NEVER CALL HER AGAIN.

That 'guy' is actually a 'girl'.

So... technically, you'd have to find this GIRL and pants HER, then take HER BOYFRIEND for a steak dinner and NEVER CALL him AGAIN.

And her initial complaint was actually Gregor's ATL article showing "half naked women" and always appearing on FlamesNation because "God forbid, an article appear on BOTH 'enemy sites'"

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#29 Matt Henderson
June 06 2010, 01:15PM
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SirFozz wrote:

@ Archaeologuy

Hey, my second son was just born yesterday and I was thinking your daughter is the perfect age for him. What do ya think? ;)

congrats! We'll see what happens in 25 years when I allow her to date.

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#30 Hemmertime
June 06 2010, 01:17PM
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@RossCreekNation

Too bad Souray is a douche in our books now, Or Id put up with his nude photo with Cogs and Moreau on next weeks half naked girl article... and each week after. Well, maybe just honest. But still...

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#31 I Am The Law
June 06 2010, 03:34PM
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@ Ogden Kings 'n' Pretty Things: Thanks for pointing that out. As I said, I could be wrong, and I stand corrected. I hope that they would be able to support a team. Thanks again for clearing that up!!

@ RossCreek: I agree with your assessment of Seattle. I think the arena would have to be private. Portland would be an interesting choice...

@ Wayne: Given your track record with inside information, I'm completely deferring to you on that one. I'd bet you're right.

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#32 Robin Brownlee
June 06 2010, 06:34PM
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I Am The Law wrote:

@ Ogden Kings 'n' Pretty Things: Thanks for pointing that out. As I said, I could be wrong, and I stand corrected. I hope that they would be able to support a team. Thanks again for clearing that up!!

@ RossCreek: I agree with your assessment of Seattle. I think the arena would have to be private. Portland would be an interesting choice...

@ Wayne: Given your track record with inside information, I'm completely deferring to you on that one. I'd bet you're right.

"Inside information?" Like Wanye stumbling onto ONE scoop in his life because he has actively stalked Hillary Duff for years and used to cut Bill Comrie's lawn until he was let go after being discovered "peering" into the house? That inside information?

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#33 RossCreekNation
June 06 2010, 07:34PM
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Some interesting tidbits from Matty in the Journal today:

- suggests not a lot of teams lining up for Souray (no surprise), but mentions the Sharks & Devils as possibilities... says Sharks would likely offer up D Kent Huskins ($1.7M) & F Torrey Mitchell ($1.3M).
- suggests Oil dangle #31 to CHI for F Kris Versteeg.
- Oilers won't be resigning F Vlad Trukhno or F Geoff Paukauvich, and may let Ryan O'Marra go in favour of Colin McDonald.
- the word on D John Scott is he's a great dressing-room prescence who can often be found doing crossword puzzles an hour after the game; also trying to finish his degree in engineering.
- says you can bet the Oilers are asking Boston about Blake Wheeler and/or #15 in any talks of swapping picks, but also mentions 23 yr old 6'5" RW Mikko Lehtonen down on the farm.

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#34 Reagan
June 06 2010, 08:08PM
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Pronger is Hilarious! Flyers should win just to piss off Wayne.

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#35 RossCreekNation
June 06 2010, 08:13PM
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@Reagan

Hilarious that he's been on the ice for 4 goals against and was in the box for the other.

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#36 RossCreekNation
June 06 2010, 08:50PM
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@Wanye

You gotta use this pic for the next one...

http://twitter.com/RossCreekNation/status/15599857793

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#37 GSC
June 06 2010, 08:54PM
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Will the Goldwater Institute please stand up? Please stand up? Please stand up?

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#38 Reagan
June 06 2010, 09:03PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

Hilarious that he's been on the ice for 4 goals against and was in the box for the other.

Unlike the Calgary Flames or any other team that matter, he is is the Playoffs still :)

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#39 RossCreekNation
June 06 2010, 10:33PM
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@Reagan

Weak.

I never ever said anywhere that he wasn't good. Why you gotta bring the Flames into it? Why you gotta be like that? Huh? Weak.

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#40 Max Powers - Team HME Evans
June 07 2010, 08:01AM
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Wanye wrote:

Did you see that guy on FN say he would rather gouge his eyes out with a pen then read my 'douchebag articles from up North?'

I have half a mind to find this guy and pants him, then take his girlfriend for a steak dinner and NEVER CALL HER AGAIN.

I don't know where you come up with these lines, but they're usually hit and miss. And my friend, you've been hitting a lot lately. You get my vote for 'most random person in the world' award.

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#41 madjam
June 07 2010, 09:20AM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

Some interesting tidbits from Matty in the Journal today:

- suggests not a lot of teams lining up for Souray (no surprise), but mentions the Sharks & Devils as possibilities... says Sharks would likely offer up D Kent Huskins ($1.7M) & F Torrey Mitchell ($1.3M).
- suggests Oil dangle #31 to CHI for F Kris Versteeg.
- Oilers won't be resigning F Vlad Trukhno or F Geoff Paukauvich, and may let Ryan O'Marra go in favour of Colin McDonald.
- the word on D John Scott is he's a great dressing-room prescence who can often be found doing crossword puzzles an hour after the game; also trying to finish his degree in engineering.
- says you can bet the Oilers are asking Boston about Blake Wheeler and/or #15 in any talks of swapping picks, but also mentions 23 yr old 6'5" RW Mikko Lehtonen down on the farm.

Big win for Souray and Sharks if they are only offering Huskins and Torrey . I like the Versteeg deal, but i doubt Hawks will .

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#42 madjam
June 07 2010, 09:29AM
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Seems clear with what the Oilers are asking for Hall is a good indicator whom the Oilers consider is their choice for NBR.1 - T.Hall .

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#43 Ender
June 07 2010, 09:32AM
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Matt Henderson wrote:

congrats! We'll see what happens in 25 years when I allow her to date.

Speaking as a guy with a teenage daughter (well, 12 going on 29) I'd have to say that if you're committed to the age 25 plan, Arch, you better put the crib in the basement now and start boning up on your home-schooling techniques. And remember to keep telling her that all human life except your family was destroyed in the Apocolypse of 2009. Dont skimp on the basement door deadbolt maintenance; kids these days are always testing their boundries. You play your cards right, these next 25 years will breeze right along. And think how happy she'll be at 25 when you let her out and she finds out you were just kidding. Boy will you guys laugh about that, I bet. :-)

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#44 madjam
June 07 2010, 10:30AM
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Do the Oilers have a deal with Bruins already in the drawer ? Is Tambellini now working on other GM's to beat that offer seeing as Hall is meeting with several other GM,s ? Is he trying to up offer from the Bruins by doing so ? Third, and most unlikely option , is Hall will not sign with us .

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#45 Matt Henderson
June 07 2010, 10:38AM
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@madjam

Hall HAD to meet with all the GMs, it was part of the combine/interview process. And Hall would only drop down to #2 at the furthest, so its either Edmonton or Boston. Tambellini will NOT be trading the #1 pick to ANYONE other than Boston, and the deal with Boston would likely be to PASS on Hall instead of swapping picks. The Oilers are not selecting anyone other than Hall or Seguin with their 1st pick in the draft.

Hall wont sign with us, the Oilers are selecting Seguin.

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#46 TigerUnderGlass
June 07 2010, 11:09AM
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Can someone tell me why I might be cheering for the Hawks?

Seems like an odd question, but usually when the Oilers are out and I support another team to win that cup I can explain why I chose them.

For the Hawks I cannot, yet I still want them to win.

Maybe if someone else here who also wants the Hawks to win tells me why they cheer for them I can figure it out.

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#50 yegCopywriter
June 07 2010, 11:25AM
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@Wanye

I think Arch was saying that Hall won't sign with us since we're not going to select him. Clever.

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