Identifying the Core

Pat Steinberg
January 13 2011 02:33PM

 

With most among FlamesNation believing this team needs to retool a tad and go in a different direction, it's fueled more and more conversation about "the core" and how that group of players should look going forward.  Whereas, at one time the core group of players was clearly identified, doing the same thing again with the current group is a much more difficult assignment.

The Old Core

One of Darryl Sutter's crowning achievements during his time as General Manager of the Flames was locking up the "core group" of players, which started in July of 2007 when Robyn Regehr and Jarome Iginla signed long term extensions within two days of each other.  Regehr signed on July 2nd, finalizing a five year extension at a $4.02 million annual cap hit; on July 4th, Iginla inked his own five year extension, with a $7 million cap hit.

The signing of Miikka Kiprusoff on October 29th of 2007 satisfied the goal of locking up "the big three", as Kiprusoff was given a six year, $35 million deal.  The next focus was Dion Phaneuf, the phenom defenceman (at least thought by many at the time) who had energized the Calgary blueline.  With 99 points in his first two seasons, Phaneuf was in the middle of his best statistical season (he'd finish with 60 points) when Sutter signed him to his own six year extension, worth a grand total of $39 million.  One of the worries was whether the Flames would be able to re-sign Phaneuf with such good numbers in his first three seasons.

The final piece of the core was Daymond Langkow, who signed a four year deal on June 27th of 2008; his annual cap hit would end up at $4.5 million dollars.  So, five pieces of a puzzle, and five players who would probably have commanded some good dough on the open market.  Yet they all signed with the Flames, which at the time, was a very good thing.  The consequences of these contracts wouldn't be felt for a number of years.

So who still remains?  Phaneuf was traded to Toronto just over a year ago, with a group of four players (two remaining) coming back in return.  Langkow's future status is very uncertain, as he's yet to play since suffering a scary neck injury in March of last year; his return to the NHL is doubtful, at best, it seems.  That leaves Iginla, Regehr and Kiprusoff...and it begs the question: what should the future hold for them in a Flames jersey?

Where Are You Going?

The direction remains undefined for the Calgary Flames at this point, as they continue to struggle through their 2010-11 campaign.  Acting GM Jay Feaster has talked about "intellectual honesty" in evaluating moves for the team and making decisions going forward.  In my eyes, it's pretty clear: miracle run or not, the Flames are a middle-of-the-road team at best, and aren't set up to be anything better in the coming years.

So, if the team is to do what a lot of people are hoping, how the three previously mentioned core members fit in will have to be a focal point.  If the team is able to acquire assets for one or any of those players, there's a growing contingent of the Flames faithful who would be in support.

Both Iginla and Regehr could net you fairly nice returns, even with both players in the "diminishing returns" category as they play out their contracts.  However, Iginla is still a very good player.  He may not be the elite, overwhelming force night in, night out as he was as early as three seasons ago, but he still has the ability to be a fairly high end forward.  His name, his conditioning, and his effectiveness could net the Flames a package consisting of a good pick, a good prospect and a roster player right now  Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

As for Robyn Regehr, as I said in our Roundtable earlier this week, it's not out of the question that a deal could net the Flames a high pick.  He's still a very good shutdown defenceman, and there are teams with an absolute need for that type of player right now.  You'd probably have to take a player back in return, but would a lower depth defenceman along with a pick be that awful of a return? I don't think so.  Hell, a desperate team who really believes they're within striking distance of a Cup may well overpay for a guy like him, if he's on the market.

Kiprusoff is a different story, because the goaltending market is slim and the trend is moving away from having high priced goaltenders on your team right now.  But, again, a team who's suffered an injury or really does feel a need to upgrade their goaltending situation might end up brining him in, and might have to overpay if the situation dictates.

Now, all of the above is nothing more than media speculation and poppycock, because we don't know what the Flames are thinking when it comes to direction.  The question "where are you going?" is the question that needs to be asked, and then answered before the team decides to think about fielding offers for these three players.  If it were me, I'd already have made my decision, and I'd be listening to any offer with an open mind.

Identifying The New Core

So, if the team decides to set themselves up for something a little further on down the road, they would have to go into the dreaded "rebuild mode".  That's not to say the Flames would have to suffer through five and six seasons of non-playoff hockey, but it would mean they'd have to dial back the "right now, and right now only" mentality for a time, and maybe suffer a few lumps.  It can't be any worse than it is now, and I firmly believe fans in this city would be all for it, if it was clear the team really was trying to strive for something.

If this were to be the case, an important step would be pinpointing who you're prepared to move forward with, and who you want to be focal points of your team when they'd supposedly be realizing their goal.  This becomes a little more difficult to do, as debate surrounds whether this player should or this player should not be part of the teams future.

Guarantees - I can think of only two who fit into the no-brainer category at this point, and they're both on the blueline: Mark Giordano and Jay Bouwmeester.  In many minds, Gio is a future captain on this team, and his play continues to evolve and impress.  He's a legit top three defenceman, and if he's not ready now it won't be long for him to be out against the very best competition on a nightly basis.

Bouwmeester may have a large, polarizing contract, but he's also been one of the most important players on this team.  He is constantly deployed against top opposition forwards, and more often than not finishes in the plus when it comes to Kent's scoring chance numbers posted every night.  Clearly, that's not all attributed to him, but it doesn't mean it's a fluke that it happens on a regular basis either.  Sure, his numbers aren't in the same realm of what they were in Florida, but his overall game has taken leaps and bounds since he first donned a Flames jersey to where he is now.

The Contract Dilemmas - There's not a whole lot you can do with Rene Bourque at this point.  The contract is signed and the contract is long.  However, we all know the ability is there, and we all know how valuable he can be to the team when he's playing solid hockey.  I believe he joins this new core of players for both hockey reasons and financial reasons, as the contract isn't going to be easy to move and you're probably not going to net anything in return close to Bourque's capability when on his game.  The other thing to rememember is this: he was pretty damn good last year, and while consistency has always been an issue, this recent extended stretch of perimiter play is a little out of character.

Matt Stajan was one of the principle players acquired in the Dion Phaneuf deal, and was in the midst of a career season when he joined the team.  And then the bottom fell out.  He has five goals in 64 games with the team, and shows no signs of turning into the player his $3.5 million annual cap hit suggests.  I would rather see him elsewhere, but making that happen is easier said than done.  In the long run, it might be easier to let his contract play out, and let him fill the role of a young-ish (26) forward that can take some minutes while other more important players develop.

The Tweeners - Here's the interesting part.  Identifying players who are on the team now and might not be bad fits in a minor supporting role down the road.  The two for me are David Moss and Curtis Glencross.  Moss has a history of driving possession in a bottom six role, and is a valuable player both on the ice and with his contract.  His contract carries over through next season, and with a $1.3 million cap hit, he's more than reasonable for what he gives you.  He's a guy you can keep for a similar cap hit, and is still relatively young at 29.

Then there's Glencross.  A guy who can dominate a game when he's used right, a guy that can add quality minutes at even strength and on the penalty kill.  Two problems as I see it.  First, it's the whole consistency thing.  The fact that he played 15-20 great games for this team to start the season then completely fell off a cliff is a bit of a worry.  But I think I'd still want him on the team even with that in my back pocket.  No, the bigger problem surrounds his desire to return to the Flames, which I'm lead to believe is zero.  It's pretty clear Glencross hasn't been thrilled with how he's been utilized here and was extremely displeased with his benching earlier this season.  He'll command a little more than his salary right now when he becomes unrestricted on July 1st, so my guess is Glencross is gone.

To me, it's the single most intriguing issue as the Calgary Flames (hopefully) move towards a new goal a little further in the future.  Who does this team believe in? And who doesn't fit the mold and the image of where they want to eventually be? These questions are easily answered by you and I, because there are no implications to flapping our gums or hammering a keyboard.  For Jay Feaster, or whoever else has to make the real decisions, the fall out is a little more real.  But I think we'd all much rather see a team making decisions than sticking to something that clearly isn't working right now.

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Pat Steinberg can be heard daily on the Fan960 in Calgary at can be read at the FAN 960. Born and raised in Calgary, Steinberg considers himself a huge fan of all sports including the CFL, MMA and 13 round bare knuckle boxing matches. Follow Steinberg on Twitter at www.twitter.com/Fan960Steinberg.
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#1 Kent Wilson
January 13 2011, 02:45PM
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He's a guy you can keep for a similar cap hit, and is still relatively young at 25.

Good stuff. One quibble though - Mosser is 29.

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#2 icedawg_42
January 13 2011, 02:45PM
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Amen. The guys who need to go are immoveable. I have little hope that Glenx will be around next year, though I think the guy rocks. Stajan HAS to go! Even for a bag of pucks and a broken stick...I'm glad that (at least it looks like) the Flames will draft very very early this year.

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#4 icedawg_42
January 13 2011, 02:53PM
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I think on After Hours a couple weeks ago Feaster identified his core as: Iggy, Gio, JBo, and Kipper. I dont remember if he mentioned Borque or Reggie.

EDIT - what I'm saying is I guess it doesnt amount to much who "we" consider the core - what matters is who management considers core. But I, like you would probably be listening to any and all offers.

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#5 Vintage Flame
January 13 2011, 03:00PM
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Good article Pat! The one thing that has always concerned me about Moss is that he may become like Matthew Lombardi. All this UNrealized potential.

I'd love to see Calgary take him in the off-season and turn him into Joe Nieuwendyk! He'll never have Niewy's hands, but if they took him and taught him to tip pucks in front of the net like Joe used to, he would definitely reap the rewards; especially on the PP!

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#6 the whole truth and nothing but the truth
January 13 2011, 03:15PM
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I honestly think that we should try to trade Bourque. He embody's the inconsistency label that has plagued our team for a few years now. I also believe that he has trade value with a lot of teams around the league. I hear Pittsburgh is looking for a winger(s) to play with Crosby and Malkin. Throw Hagman in the deal and let's try to get Jordan Staal over here! I don't think we have to trade Iggy to accomplish a rebuild, and ultimately he has earned the right to finish his career here. I would much rather see Regher or Kipper traded then Iggy. I think its just a matter of making a couple of trades for younger players (such as J. Staal) to turn this team around. I know its early to be stating this but I think Karlsson has the ability to be a starter on this team soon than later. Kipper and Regher are the best trading chips. Please keep Iginla in the red sweater!

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#7 negrilcowboy
January 13 2011, 03:18PM
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Great work Steiner,its always a heated debate when discussing "The Core". Well years have passed and the group seems to include more and more players.The most realistic approach would be to move the members that are long in the tooth, and start fresh. Gio is the captain of this club, although he has no letter his leadership is clearly evident. Personally, i don't see Silent Jay as a leader. from an organizational standpoint,every player must be considered moveable.

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#8 the-wolf
January 13 2011, 03:21PM
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I totally agreed with everything in this post until I got near the end.

Bourque, Stajan and Glencross all need to go for one simple reason: I don't want them mentoring the youth in the rebuild (assuming that's how it goes).

Biggest problem on this team is consistency. Consistency results from one thing: work ethic. Work ethic is the result of one thing: heart. And those three have very little. They emplify what's wrong with this team.

Bourque and Glencross are both tradeable. Stajan I would package with a pick if I had to. Anything to get his loser Maple Leafs influence out of the room. If the cost was too high, off to Europe or bury in the minors.

The Flames need to do three things to change this club around:

1) Heart. New leadership and a new core. Players who will actually listen to the coach and play his system instead of thinking of ways to get him fired like the last one. And heart and character doesn't mean a dearth of skill either.

This is why I so desperately want Schenn here. Heart, character, work ethic, size, centreman, skill, talent and a cheap price tag. Which leads into my next point....

2) Money. This team needs a new system regarding contracts - how long and how much term. A completely new strategy in place before you even start the rebuild (hint: no more NTC).

If you want to avoid rebuilding every 6-8 years, smart, prudent contract signings are the best way to do it.

3) Skill (speaks for itself).

Gio and Bouw are the only two players I'd keep that belong to the 'core' and if they didn't want to stay, then I'd sell them too. Outside of them I'd keep Backlund and Jackman. Adios and sayonara to the rest.

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#9 Domebeers.com
January 13 2011, 03:23PM
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Im outraged you didn't include Jackman in the core.

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#10 the-wolf
January 13 2011, 03:23PM
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Pens trade Malkin before they ever get rid of Staal. Shero no fool.

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#11 Nolan Moore
January 13 2011, 03:45PM
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I honestly think there ware only 2 "Untouchables" on this team, Iggy and Gio. There then are a number of "intouchables" (yea i know its not a word)those include; JayBo (cant move that contract, he's untradable, even though I think he should go); Jokinen again who would want him?; Reggie another year at $4.0M not many who would want him and Stajan, another bomb.

Then everyone else can be had for a price. I want to see this "intelectual" honesty he keeps talking about.

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#12 negrilcowboy
January 13 2011, 03:50PM
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Domebeers.com wrote:

Im outraged you didn't include Jackman in the core.

Jackman is the only Flames player the masses can connect with, he is a real guy that earns his money. Jackman realizes just how fortunate he is, never forgets it and busts a nut. Unlike alot of the pampered prima donnas that were coddled the entire playing careers. Way to go Timmy.

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#13 dotfras
January 13 2011, 03:52PM
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I see the core as JBO & Gio.

I think Darryl signed some guys with the intention of them fitting in the core (Stajan, Bourque mainly) but I don't think they are.

Moving forward I think you:

Keep 1/3 of Iggy, Reggie, & Kip.

Explore a good prospect & high pick for Jarome.

Send Reggie to SJ for Setoguchi & a 2nd.

With the goalie market the way it is Kipper might be a hard sell. I could see him fitting into Washington's plans with one of their young goalies & something else coming back. Puts them in a position to make a run this year.

Trade Tanguay & GlenX for something decent.

Get rid of at least 1/2 of these guys to open up some spots for younger/hopefully better players: Hagman Stajan Jokenin Sarich Kotalik Morrison Kostopolous Pardy

Keep: Gio JBo Bourque Moss Jackman Karlsson Backlund

Don't resign: Staios Babchuk Mikkleson Conroy

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#14 T&A4Flames
January 13 2011, 04:14PM
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Iginla has earned the right to stay if that is his wish. If he wants a shot at a cup, I would give him that opportunity. Otherwise, he is the best mentor any young player could have.

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#15 the-wolf
January 13 2011, 04:29PM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

Iginla has earned the right to stay if that is his wish. If he wants a shot at a cup, I would give him that opportunity. Otherwise, he is the best mentor any young player could have.

?...do you mean by not showing up for the first 15 games of the season, by taking shifts off, by taking periods off, by his poor defensive play or by his refusal to play the coach's system?

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#16 T&A4Flames
January 13 2011, 04:33PM
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In the off season, if they haven't won the cup, how willing would the Flyers be to trade for Kipper? Also, would the B's be willing to part with Rask if another young goalie was offered (although a little less seasoned). What I'm thinking is:

Kipper and a 2nd to Philly for Bobrovsky, Van R and a 1st. Flip Bob with Bourque to Boston for Tuuka Rask.

Philly gets a true #1 (and probably a SC) Boston solidifies their wing with another big, fast shooter (how nasty is a Horton, Lucic, Bourque top 6 wing), and a good young tender that will have 2 more years under Thomas Calgary gets 2 good young players with some experience and another 1st round.

Just more dreaming I suppose, but such a nice dream.

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#17 T&A4Flames
January 13 2011, 04:36PM
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?...do you mean by not showing up for the first 15 games of the season, by taking shifts off, by taking periods off, by his poor defensive play or by his refusal to play the coach's system?

Ouch! I guess you are not an Iggy fan. I mean by carrying this team on his shoulders for the better part of 14 years.

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#18 the-wolf
January 13 2011, 04:47PM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

?...do you mean by not showing up for the first 15 games of the season, by taking shifts off, by taking periods off, by his poor defensive play or by his refusal to play the coach's system?

Ouch! I guess you are not an Iggy fan. I mean by carrying this team on his shoulders for the better part of 14 years.

From an offensive point of view I agree with you.

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#19 negrilcowboy
January 13 2011, 04:56PM
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the-wolf wrote:

From an offensive point of view I agree with you.

Iggy's stretch run last year wasn't exactly too productive if i remember correctly.Oh ya i forgot he hasn't had the luxury of linemates is entire career.

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#20 everton fc
January 13 2011, 04:57PM
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@Vintage Flame

Moss is a different player than Lombardi. If Moss plays his game - going into the areas no one else wants to go - he's effective. If he tries to play Lombardi's game... he's not.

Kipper in the core may be a mistake. Ditto Bouwmeester. No matter how well Bo is playing, the price tag is toxic. As is Bourque's contract, potentially.

I think Iggy, Gio, and yes, Reggie, are the core. Moss should be retained. And Tanguay. Backlund will be here. So will others. Perhaps Stajan's just having an off year. Let's hope so, because I agree, he'd be tough to move, outside a few picks...

GlenX may go of his own accord. Or he may decide to stay in Alberta. Does it really matter, though? He's not going to win us the Cup.

I think Bouwmeester's stock is such that we can free up some serious cap-space and pick up a few youngsters/picks. And I agree with an earlier post on a different thread - lack of scoring makes us thread bare in Abbotsford, offencively.

Pun intended.

We have very little to offer outside our core. And we have very little depth in our farm system in areas we need help. Like scoring.

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#23 negrilcowboy
January 13 2011, 05:28PM
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@everton fc

Perhaps sending tanguay to dallas for scott glennie is something to consider. Tangs may ask for a big raise, and as of late the production rate is decreasing. Dog days are here,who knows that he does from here out.

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#24 dotfras
January 13 2011, 05:48PM
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Yeah, alot of teams could have interest in Tanguay. Bargain price for a great player that could help a team headed for the postseason.

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#25 negrilcowboy
January 13 2011, 06:06PM
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@dotfras

I wouldn't classify Tang in the great category, good yes great no way. But for a teanm that has a legit chance, players such as Tangs,Glenx,Moss can get some looks. You can get younger by moving these types in yr one. Year two you can unload some soon to be free agencts. The rebuild is a five year plan folks. maybe three on good behaviour

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#26 jr_christ
January 13 2011, 06:44PM
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The Flames will likely finish between 16 and 18 in the league this year thus giving them a 15th(ish) first round pick. Unfortunately the depth beyond the top 10 is not very good this year.

However, having said that I also don't think Feaster will tear the team apart partly because of the fact 50% of the team has a restriction on their movement from the team.

Who HAS to stay:

Iggy, Bowmeester, Regher and Karlson

I am a FIRM believer that one of the reasons that detroit is so successful in the draft every year is based on the fact that there is a SOLID core of guys with leadership which young players look up to. In Edmonton, Hall and Eberle have NO ONE to look up to and they are forced to be the best at an average age of 19 years.

Zetterberg and Datsyuk have played with Stevie Y, Draper, Maltby, Cleary AND Lidstom. They've learned how to be patient and keep composure during the game. Edmonton will NEVER be great if they keep the "trade them when they turn good at 30" rule there.

If Calgary can get two key top 8 picks in the next 2 drafts they have the ability to learn from Iginla.

When Iggy was traded from Dallas in 1995 for Joe Nuewendyk (spelling, sorry!) he has Fleury to look.....down to?!?! It took his 7 seasons to become a bonafide leader after 7 straight april golf tournaments.

The only hope is to keep him to mentor the young players. Plus, he will never get less than 65 points in a season... it's just not in his nature.

Maybe the flames can push for 8th... but within 8 days that pipe dream will be over thanks to a massive slaughtering by the Canucks. I would suspect the Canucks would absolutely embarrass the Flames in round one outscoring them 12-4

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#27 Cool Beans
January 13 2011, 07:09PM
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So, if the team decides to set themselves up for something a little further on down the road, they would have to go into the dreaded "rebuild mode". That's not to say the Flames would have to suffer through five and six seasons of non-playoff hockey, but it would mean they'd have to dial back the "right now, and right now only" mentality for a time, and maybe suffer a few lumps.

If this team goes into re-build mode or even if they don't, they are in for a few years of no playoffs. Without Kipper and Iginla this team is pretty weak going forward. No prospects and no identity.

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#28 negrilcowboy
January 13 2011, 07:49PM
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@Cool Beans

Perhaps rebuild isn't the best descriptor, how does a retool or a re load sound. They need to move a couple of assets almost immediately. unfortunately drom the sounds of things abbotsford isnt teeming with ready to step in. Imagine backs, and a couple of other youngens sitting together watchin.

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#29 wattree
January 13 2011, 08:30PM
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If I was Feaster and couldn't get any interest in Kipper from a contender, then I'd try Phoenix, Columbus, any one else that is just trying to get to the cap floor. His salary cap hit is fairly high, but not a lot of real dollars to pay out over the next 2 seasons.

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#30 44stampede
January 13 2011, 08:41PM
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I think if you have to take anything back negatively (ie bad contract)for Reggie you didn't get good value. The guy is still a beast. Many teams right now would love to have him. LA and SJ stand out for me but many more would be interested. Getting a 2-3rd round pick and an okay cheaper guy is not enough. His hit is only 4 million and for what he brings, that is good value. If he was being paid 6 that would be a different story. How much would you expect to pay for one of the better shut down 1st pairing defenseman?

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#31 FireOnIce
January 13 2011, 09:58PM
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Considering the Avs got Tomas Fleischmann for Scott Hannan, I think we can do at least that well, plus a pick, for Regehr (who is leaps and bounds better than Hannan has been or ever will be).

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#32 SmellOfVictory
January 13 2011, 10:16PM
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@44stampede

Shut down d-men with little offensive production don't make a ton. Regehr is still good value, but all of the blueliners at a cap hit of 5m+ are expected to put up points (and a chunk of them are overpaid) - they're not really good comparables.

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#33 Palt11
January 13 2011, 11:32PM
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My core: giordano, bourque, jbouw, staios ( just kidding) Not sure if I can count backlund in the core group, mostly cuz he hasn't had a huge role on the team. So those three guys are ur core, the guys ur gonna build around( and perhaps a couturier, landeskog, nugent Hopkins, laarson). That's a decent core, no real superstar like iggy was, but gios an excellent dman, jbouws not quite up to snuff in the goalscoring department, but he's been pretty solid defensively all year. However, bourques the one that's a little bothersome. He hd an absolute scorching start to the season, and then decides to take 2 and a half months off? He's gotta get his act together, or else he's getting shipped out. As for the smaller contributers, I think moss and jackman should stay. I doubt glencross will stay, after reading pats article, and that's a shame, cuz the guys is a beast when he's on. Everyone else, I hope u get shipped out for some picks ( sorry iggy, kipper, Reggie) and prospects. Bring up nemisz, wahl( well maybe not he's gotta actually get some games under his belt), Bouma, patterson, brodie, seabrook, pelech, and Irving. See what You've got in the system, and then start the rebuild from there.

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#34 jay
January 14 2011, 12:36AM
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jr_christ wrote:

The Flames will likely finish between 16 and 18 in the league this year thus giving them a 15th(ish) first round pick. Unfortunately the depth beyond the top 10 is not very good this year.

However, having said that I also don't think Feaster will tear the team apart partly because of the fact 50% of the team has a restriction on their movement from the team.

Who HAS to stay:

Iggy, Bowmeester, Regher and Karlson

I am a FIRM believer that one of the reasons that detroit is so successful in the draft every year is based on the fact that there is a SOLID core of guys with leadership which young players look up to. In Edmonton, Hall and Eberle have NO ONE to look up to and they are forced to be the best at an average age of 19 years.

Zetterberg and Datsyuk have played with Stevie Y, Draper, Maltby, Cleary AND Lidstom. They've learned how to be patient and keep composure during the game. Edmonton will NEVER be great if they keep the "trade them when they turn good at 30" rule there.

If Calgary can get two key top 8 picks in the next 2 drafts they have the ability to learn from Iginla.

When Iggy was traded from Dallas in 1995 for Joe Nuewendyk (spelling, sorry!) he has Fleury to look.....down to?!?! It took his 7 seasons to become a bonafide leader after 7 straight april golf tournaments.

The only hope is to keep him to mentor the young players. Plus, he will never get less than 65 points in a season... it's just not in his nature.

Maybe the flames can push for 8th... but within 8 days that pipe dream will be over thanks to a massive slaughtering by the Canucks. I would suspect the Canucks would absolutely embarrass the Flames in round one outscoring them 12-4

pffft i looked at Detroits drafting, they don't usually end up drafting much, they did manage a few diamonds but typically they don't draft awesomely. Detroit has their core then they add one or two from draft. they trade or sign free agents. usually they find a diamond in the draft every 4 or 5 years.

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#35 CP is GARBAGE
January 14 2011, 01:08AM
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@wattree

uh, you think Kipper would waive his NTC to go to Columbus or Phoenix?

Do you even watch hockey?

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#36 CP is GARBAGE
January 14 2011, 01:12AM
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@ Palt11 So, basically you would like the Flames to be the worst team in the league for the next decade.

good plan.

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#37 44stampede
January 14 2011, 01:14AM
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I know that this would be D heavy but I would have JBo, Reggie, Iggy and Gio as my core.

Iggy only if he wants to stay. If he wants to go to a winner for a chance at Stanley then they should help him.

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#38 CP is GARBAGE
January 14 2011, 01:27AM
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I agree,

the flames have a very strong top 3 D-men and with Brodie, Erixon, in the system the D-Line could look real good in a matter of 2-3 years.

I just don't see the Flames moving Iggy. However, if Iggy goes to management and says it would probably be best for both sides to move on, then you do it. But if he wants to stay you keep him.

Kipper likely is more valuble to this team than what he would bring in a goalie saturated market.But, again, if he's open to a move you have to look to see what is out there.

I'm thinking the Flames will be keeping 'the big three', Bouwmeester, Gio, Backlund and Bourque. After that I think everyone is on the table and the Flames will look to stockpile mid-level draft picks.

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#39 PrairieStew
January 14 2011, 08:20AM
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The strategy, and therefore who you keep depends on so many things:

1. If they are within striking distance (6pts or less) of the playoffs by the deadline.

2. The abilility to get anyone to waive a NTC.

3. The market that is out there for our assets.

What you can book for sure - low value contracts moving in to next year of Kotalik, Stajan and Jokinen are immovable. Personally I am hopeful that some improvement in Stajan's play is possible. To a lesser extent Hagman an Bourque are also tough to trade, Hagman's production not quite good enough and Bourque's contract looking a little long. Cory Sarich's one year left at $3.6 also tough to move but if you are happy with Pardy and want room for Brodie next year then moving Cory for a pick is fine.

As valuable as Moss and Jackman have proven, they are not core players you build around. Offer me a 21 year old prospect for either and I'd probably bite because there is so little in the system currently.

If they are certain to be out of the playoffs by the deadline Glencross will go. Tanguay has a NTC but might agree to go back to Montreal or perhaps Pittsburgh.

Feaster can say Kipper is part of his core - but if someone blows him away with an offer he has to consider it. Van Riemsdyk and Bobrovsky I'd do in an instant - same for Varlamov and Alzner. Same logic goes for Regehr - a very valuable guy - but his value is wasted on a team that, because of so many poor value forwards doesn't look to be competitive next year. Unless by some miracle you think you can sign 12 or 13 quality FA's in the summer of 2012 for $30 million, there is precious little reason to hang on to any asset that is currently over 30 hoping for a rapid return to glory. Whether or not Iggy goes depends entirely on him. I feel for the guy - no 500 goal scorer in history has played so long with so little around him. Only Marcel Dionne comes close.

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#40 backburner
January 14 2011, 08:37AM
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The only moveable players on this team are Gio, Regher, and Iginla. Gio's too good, Iginla is our Captain, and Regher I'm pretty sure won't wave his no trade clause...

I think we are stuck with this team for another year unfortunately... trades just aren't happening anymore.

If any players get moved @ the deadline it will be any of our UFA's (Glencross, Babchuck, Staios, Pardy)

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#41 Rain Dogs
January 14 2011, 09:08AM
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This is where I would be departing from:

Core (Short term/LongTerm)

G: Kiprusoff (short ~2012)

D: Gio (LongTerm)

D: Jbo (LongTerm)

F: Bourque (Mid ~2013+)

F: Backlund (Mid ~2013+)

F: Jackman (Short 2012) do not ever sign another enforcer.

Key Assests: Iginla, Regehr, GlenX, Tanguay

Key Prospects: Irving(G), Karlsson(G), Erixon(LD), Brodie(LD), House(LW/Scorer), Nemisz(C),

Core Key Needs:

1. Two-way Centre/Number 1 centre. maybe Backlund?(Kesler/Datsuyk-like)

2. Young, mobile, Right-Handed shut-down "D" (x 2??) (ie. Weber a RFA at years end. Although, I guess in the slim chance NSH can't afford to re-sign him, they'd prefer the 4 first round picks. Damn.)

3. Face-off centre/PK. maybe Backlund?(a poor man's Malholtra)

4. Goalie who CAN replace Kipper. (ideally by 2012 season's end.)

5. creative, responsible, veteran forward (could be Tanguay)

Key re-signings:

1. Tanguay (if he'll sign for value ~2.5)

2. Babchuk (if he'll sign for discount ~1.0)

Key Dumps: players we need to get off the payroll, in order

1. Staois (it's done at year's end)

2. Kotalik

3. Sarich (should have been done before Phaneuf ever moved)

4. Stajan

5. Ivanans

To me, the core is who you WANT to build around. Quite obviously if you are offered the moon for a member of the core, you look at it, but core guys are players who are solving numerous team needs. Key assets are players you move ONLY if it makes you better now or later (Phaneuf was one of these, and we didn't get better). Key prospects have a role in the LONG-TERM plan, aren't core, and CAN be trade assets.

Anyone else not listed can be moved at a chance of getting better or developing. Even if the return is prospects/picks/futures.

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#42 wattree
January 14 2011, 10:17AM
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CP is GARBAGE wrote:

uh, you think Kipper would waive his NTC to go to Columbus or Phoenix?

Do you even watch hockey?

Phoenix is 4th in the West with a starting tender that they probably can't resign. If you weren't wanted somewhere and they pitched an option to you in a better climate, higher in the standings, not looking at a 2-4 year rebuild, that plays a sound defensive system, and has zero media pressure, would you stick around?

And if Columbus could get some good tending to allow Mason to grow into the position, they could make some noise before we ever do. Granted it would take a lot more convincing, but he might.

I was mostly thinking of what a GM with a supposed over priced contract (cap wise) could do to move that contract. Places like Philli (which comes up alot in proposed trades on this site) would have to move a pretty good piece to clear up enough cap space to get Kipper under the wire. Their tandem is less than a 2.75 million hit. The only way I see a move like that would involve eating a Daniel Briere contract until he's 35.

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#43 shutout
January 14 2011, 01:33PM
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The most puzzling aspect is why Feaster came out so early and vehemently opposed to trading Iginla. How can he still believe that a player who is 34 years old is the player to build a team around. The message from Feaster needed to be we will evaluate all players and review all trading opportunities. To come out and say that Iginla is not going to be traded at all is assinine and stupid. This team needs to look at being competative in two or three years (Stanly Cup competative) and they cant do it with this team. They need to get younger, faster, and more skilled. The best way to achieve this is to trade the older high end players on the team. Make the deals you can for Iginla, Regher, Kiprusoff, Bourque, Hagman, Sarich, Staios, Morrisson, and Glencross. If Tanguay wants to move, trade him, and if somebody is stupid enough to want Jokinen, convince him to leave as well.

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#44 the-wolf
January 14 2011, 01:35PM
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jay wrote:

pffft i looked at Detroits drafting, they don't usually end up drafting much, they did manage a few diamonds but typically they don't draft awesomely. Detroit has their core then they add one or two from draft. they trade or sign free agents. usually they find a diamond in the draft every 4 or 5 years.

I don't get this, sorry. Detroit's roster lists 16 players that they drafted. Show me how many comparables you can find. Especially one that includes multiple top 6 forwards and top 4 D.

Calgary's roster shows 4 btw.

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#45 PrairieStew
January 14 2011, 02:34PM
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shutout wrote:

The most puzzling aspect is why Feaster came out so early and vehemently opposed to trading Iginla. How can he still believe that a player who is 34 years old is the player to build a team around. The message from Feaster needed to be we will evaluate all players and review all trading opportunities. To come out and say that Iginla is not going to be traded at all is assinine and stupid. This team needs to look at being competative in two or three years (Stanly Cup competative) and they cant do it with this team. They need to get younger, faster, and more skilled. The best way to achieve this is to trade the older high end players on the team. Make the deals you can for Iginla, Regher, Kiprusoff, Bourque, Hagman, Sarich, Staios, Morrisson, and Glencross. If Tanguay wants to move, trade him, and if somebody is stupid enough to want Jokinen, convince him to leave as well.

Cliff Fletcher said he wouldn't trade Kent Nilsson either. I remember him saying " We will win the Stanley Cup with Kent Nilsson." They didn't - and 4 years after they traded him - with a rookie named Nieuwendyk in the lineup they got with a pick from that trade - they did win the Cup.

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#47 JF
January 14 2011, 04:08PM
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Yup, Mr. Milksy (Daz) screwed this team up something fierce.

Core going Forward: Iggy (barring an absolutely great offer), Giordano, Bouwmeester, Bourque, Kipper.

That's not good enough...

Feaster's mission going forward should be to unload everyone else over the age of 25 (Excluding Jackman) that he can for the best he can get in return. Restock the prospect cupboard (particularily with potential impact forwards) and fill in the gaps with 1 year value deals from the free agent pool until we get a hit or two with home grown talent.

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#48 mikeecho
January 14 2011, 09:28PM
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@shutout

Iginla is the prize of the Flames organization and one of the assets that has the most potential for a team looking to make a play for the cup this year.

Feaster is just sending a message to the other GM's that Iginla has value for the Flames organization and anyone that wants to make a deal for him needs to come with a solid offer.

The minute the league thinks Calgary is having a firesale, the return immediately gets smaller for the Flames.

That's why they keep talking about making the playoffs. Everything has to do with posturing. It's harder to pry assets from a team in the mix then one out of the mix.

If the bottom half of the Western conference (SJ, MIN, CBJ) keeps playing as bad as they are now, Calgary will be in the mix for a while to come.

PHX is in 4th and they only have 3 more regulation wins than the Flames. The West is a mess this year!

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