January 20 Potpourri

Kent Wilson
January 20 2011 11:07AM

 

 

 

It's another random thoughts post! Some stuff going on in Flamesland worth a few words, I think.

- On Kipper: Dude is going through a really rough patch and he isn't totally blameless, but there's no way he's actually .768 SV% goalie, which is his save rate over the last five games. I personally abandoned the cult of Kipprusoff several years ago, so this isn't merely a plea to excuse the struggles of a long beloved star. He's not the guy who won the Vezina back in 2005-06 anymore, but he certainly isn't the worst puck stopper in the league now either.

*Related* some interesting stuff from Elliote Friedman on the radio this morning. The topic was the possibility of trading Kiprusoff during the now inevtiable rebuild and Friedmann wondered aloud if this season is "a blip" rather than "the start of the decline". That's the wrong question to ask because the decline started five years ago. Kipper's SV% over the last four seasons has been: .906, .903, .920 and now .897. The "blip" isn't this year's nominal save rate, but rather last year's notable .920. As such, Kipper is a lot closer to being league average than elite these days and that's been true for awhile. He has numerous other qualities, of course: experience (if you value such a thing) and durability come to mind.

That noted, Friedman claimed there will likely be interest in Kipper should the Flames shop him for a couple of reasons: one, there's almost always a club willing to take a bet on a fading star because they think it's possible to "fix" him. Secondly, Kipper's cap hit remains high (5.83M for three more years), but his actual salary in dollars falls from $6M next season, to $5M in 2012-13 and finally down to $1.5M '13-14. According to Friedman, Kipper's NTC also disappears next season as well. The rapidly decling salary and the absence of a restrictive NTC no doubt make him a less risky gamble. 

Of couse, Friedmann also said (quite sensibly) that the potential return would be rather limited. Chances are, the biggest "return" in dealing Kipper would be freeing up a bunch of cap space.

- Zach Bogosian has been fed to the wolves by the Atlanta thrashers this year. In my article on Dustin Byfuglien for the Score, I noted that Bogo was the guy eating pavement so Buff could play more often in the offensive zone. He had a ZS ratio of 36.8% at the time and was facing a lot of big guns besides. His ZS number has since increased to 42.0%, but that remains the second lowest ratio on the club (ahead of only Johnny Oduya). His possession numbers are garbage, but I don't know many players in the league who could overcome that mountian, especially on a bad corsi club like the Thrash. What's also sinking his stock is a PDO of 98.7, which will all know is a good bet to regress back to 100 at some point in the future.

As a result of bad luck and terrible circumstances, the Thrashers have been scratching the 20-year old, former 3rd overall draft pick recently. Keep in mind, Bogosian lead the Peterborough Petes in scoring as a 17 year-old with 61 points in 60 games. He has over 100 NHL games under his belt and isn't even 21 yet. He's a legit talent and there's a chance he could be available given their treatment of him recently. If ATL is looking to flip the kid for a more established blueliner, Feaster should be calling Dudley a couple of times a day.

- The loss last night sunk the Flames playoff hopes down to lottery ticket territory: 2.8% according to Sports Club Stats. I'm guessing Feaster started fielding calls from other GM's half way through the third period. I know Brent Sutter and the players have to continue to talk about staying competitive and pushing for a playoff spot, but that's just coachspeak. Let the remaking of the team commence.

*Related* I don think any player on this club is sacrosanct. Trades shouldn't be made just because and we're not talking fire sale here, but all reasonable offers should be considered. The days of "the core" being off-limits are gone. Give away the bad bets if you can (Jokinen, Stajan, Sarich, Staios), shop some pending free agents and fringe players, but also, don't hang up the phone if someone wants to discuss the big money guys. The days of building around Iginla have passed.

39d8109299a9795cb3b41a4e9b49d501
Former Nations Overlord. Current Fn contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#1 icedawg_42
January 20 2011, 11:19AM
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*Related* I don think any player on this club is sacrosanct. Trades shouldn't be made just because and we're not talking fire sale here, but all reasonable offers should be considered. The days of "the core" being off-limits are gone. Give away the bad bets if you can (Jokinen, Stajan, Sarich, Staios), shop some pending free agents and fringe players, but also, don't hang up the phone if someone wants to discuss the big money guys. The days of building around Iginla have passed

Bang on, Kent!

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#2 Rain Dogs
January 20 2011, 11:20AM
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I really cannot disagree with any of this. I cringe when I read the .906, .903, .920, .897 hard conclusion, because it wavers between small and large sample size, and uses raw sv%.

even SA during that time was .919, .907, .928... and this year.

I commented in the scoring chances that six games ago it was .924 and it's .909. I've been tracking goalie stats for years, with it getting more extensive each year as I learn more, but I've NEVER seen that kinda drop in 6 years watching and recording over 20 goalies. It's insane.

In six games (with over 800evsa on the season), Kiprusoff has plunged from .924 to .909. Totally crazy.

Six games ago, that line about "blip sv%" looks opposite at ev's with .919, .907, .928, .924. Now it looks inverted with .919, .907, .928, .909.

Whatever the case it needs to be better, Kiprusoff needs to be better, but six games doesn't make a bad goalie.

Big picture, I agree with mostly everything.

I firmly believe, no matter how well Kiprusoff is playing, and have said this for years, there is barely any trade market for him, and we have nothing good enough in the pipe if he goes. That's just reality. It's intellectual honesty.

BUT, something has to change. Either he (and the team) have to play their way outta this, or he can't play, or he gets traded or something, because this can't continue long term. Hell, it can't continue tomorrow. Something has to correct itself.

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#3 Scott
January 20 2011, 11:28AM
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With everyone jumping at the alternative to play Karlsson now that Kipper is struggling, I'd like to point out two things:

1. Karlsson had been terrible at the Dome, with I beleive 11 GA, and an 0-2 record (Avalanche and Islanders games i think?)

2. Not allowing Kipper to work his way through it right now, likely means he will be terrible for the remainder of the year. ( Comparing to Tim Thomas last year)

So playing karlsson at the dome is a quick way to tank atleast the next couple games, and sitting kipper will likely mean tanking the rest of the season.

I'd rather see the team competing and trying, then watch that garbage yesterday and (40 of the previous 43 games). But that being said, playing Karlsson over the next couple days would go along way in fast tracking this team to top 5 in draft picks.

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#5 Scott
January 20 2011, 11:36AM
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If any team is going to want Kipper, I think it would be SJ, meaning we would get back either Niemi or Niitimaki. What else would we get in addition a 1st rounder? 2nd?

With either of those choices, I would think 6 Goals Against games would be the norm the remainder of the year!

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#6 icedawg_42
January 20 2011, 11:46AM
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Backlund is out with a charlie horse! Things really are crud in Flames world right now!

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#7 Scott
January 20 2011, 11:50AM
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@icedawg_42

And I'm thinking Glencross might be out for a few... Atleast we get Staios back soon!!

On a side-note, I wondered what Montreal did to the hockey gods this season, no markov, gorges, halpern, pouliot and now cammy and max pacioretty are out for them too. They've had a rough go of things now too!

Seeing as how they were the only Canadian team worth cheering for this season, Their hopes are circling the drain at the moment.

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#8 Rain Dogs
January 20 2011, 11:51AM
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@Kent Wilson

True, but replacing league average goaltending isn't all that hard or expensive to do. That's the reason the trade market for goaltenders is so soft.

I completely agree. It's like a sickness with managers. The trade market for goalies going forward is going to be tough under a cap system, but signing big-ticket UFA elite goalies is likely to stay the same. Heck, Luo just got 12! years, first of which is this year.

The team will just be stuck with them for eternity.

It's quite easily arguable the top six goalies in the league are (by performance):

1. Thomas (5.0) 2. Hiller (4.5) 3. Vokoun (5.7) 4. Luongo (5.3 for 12more years) 5. Lundqvist (6.8) 6. Kiprusoff (5.8)

They are all also signed for big bucks and when Vokoun's contract is up, I can't see him getting the Nabakov treatment. If he signs for less than 4.5 I'll be surprised.

BUT, try trading them... you'll get nothing back, it'll only be a salary dump. Maybe you'd get something for Hiller... like a first rounder or prospect, because he's young, but you'll lose the trade by a long shot. So it begs whether it's worth it at all. Bruins were willing to GIVE away Thomas and no one would trade for him, not EVEN the Capitals... that says something.

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#9 Puckmaster
January 20 2011, 12:51PM
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The idea of getting away from the core players is a good one, and tanking isnt necessarliy the answer. Look at history with the flames, they traded Nieuwendyk for Iginla before Iggy even entered the league, also Fleury for Regehr. Both of these trades had other details but all in all this was the main part of both deals. Its time to do with Iginla and Kipper as we did with Joe and Theo.

There was Rumor of Iginla to the Kings for Brayden Schenn. Good deal for both teams as LA makes a playoff push (although they seem to be climbing the stats as quickly as the Flames lately) and we all saw what Schenn did at the world juniors this Christmas in Buffalo.

This definately isnt the only deal out there but the idea of Trading Iggy or Kipper, while they are both of value to another team, and getting some young promising talent in return, is something that should be thought of seriously.

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#10 skirby09
January 20 2011, 12:59PM
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I guess given the Flames poor performance last night I should be upset, but I'm not .... at all. In fact, I hope it happens a few more times to drill home the point that this team just isn't good enough to mgmt. I love the Flames and I hoped they would prove all wrong this year and overachieve and be a bit of a surprise. However, as it turns out the Flames are playing exactly as many thought they would. Their compete level is okay ... most nights, but they're just not good enough. It may not be a complete rebuild, however, the Flames as an organization need to realize that significant changes are needed right now. Otherwise the Flames will continue to slide a little further down before they decide to start building themselves up.

There is no hope of making the playoffs. If that wasn't clear before I think a 6-0 loss to a team they need to catch in order to get to the playoffs should make that clear.

So now I eagerly wait to see what changes are in store for the Flames.

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#11 dotfras
January 20 2011, 01:05PM
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Looks like Nabokov is going to end up in DET.

Time to get rid of guys, load up on as many picks & prospects possible.

Kipper needs to move. He isn't playing well & we have like a 3% chance of making the playoffs, no point in keeping him.

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#12 negrilcowboy
January 20 2011, 01:12PM
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Feaster and Dudley, ha ha. Didn't Jfe work over Dudley in some two bit rag of a paper as being a little bit off centre.

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#13 Graham
January 20 2011, 01:27PM
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I would be thrilled to have Bogosian on the team. He was in the Doughty conversation a couple of years ago, but the emergence of Enstrom and Byfuglien have killed his opportunity to grow and perform. His stock has dropped and, if possible, now is the perfect chance to swoop in and pick him up when he's fallen out of favor. He's big, he's solid, he's quick... And he's able to jump in to the play and could improve the team's speed and youth. Not to mention, I would be happy with just about any trade from the Flames that would bring Bogosian to Calgary.

Feaster, pick up the phone!

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#14 OilFan
January 20 2011, 01:36PM
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Kipper has keep the FLAMES in the game for the last three years. You don't trade a player away that you can't replace. Having kipper play 75 games a year just to keep your team some what competive isn't easy to replace.

Look at Tampa since they traded Khabby they are still looking for a legit tender. ( not at all saying Khabby is that guy now ). Zach Bogosian could be a good pick up, but for who ? I'm guessing Regher straight across.

Teams don't like to trade away first round picks/prospects with the CBA

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#15 icedawg_42
January 20 2011, 01:49PM
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OilFan wrote:

Kipper has keep the FLAMES in the game for the last three years. You don't trade a player away that you can't replace. Having kipper play 75 games a year just to keep your team some what competive isn't easy to replace.

Look at Tampa since they traded Khabby they are still looking for a legit tender. ( not at all saying Khabby is that guy now ). Zach Bogosian could be a good pick up, but for who ? I'm guessing Regher straight across.

Teams don't like to trade away first round picks/prospects with the CBA

Yeah - Im a little surprised about how many people are out for blood after a couple really poor weeks, man -- tough crowd. Short memories as to just how many games Kipper has stolen in the last few years. He may be falling from "Elite" but, the last couple weeks aside, I'd still put him "above average". He's really had crap playing in front of him. Reggie for Bogosian, I'd take that.

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#16 OilFan
January 20 2011, 02:11PM
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@icedawg_42

I admit I'm not a Flames fan, Kipper was amazing and I wouldn't expect him to just flop. Yes his numbers have been getting worse but so has teh team. SV% doesn't always say the whole story.

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#19 icedawg_42
January 20 2011, 02:38PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Well, I'm going to dip in the archives here...I've been talking about the Kipper decline for years. I've been advocating trading him for at least two. So, my personal interest in moving him doesn't stem from his recent cold streak (which I think isn't really indicative of his abilities).

no arguement on the decline, Im just mainly shocked on how quick the public turned on him..It wasnt this fast with Iggy or even Dutter. Bottom line is that IMO he's still an above average #1, and he's still able to make some retarded saves he's got no business making. I also think his numbers get hurt by shoddy play in front of him. I have no problem moving him, (or anyone save maybe Gio) because core or not (I include Iggy in this statement too) - the Flames are not contenders and it's too late to build around them (its been tried before anyway.)

- I want to also add that from listening to Feaster talk, he is basically terrified of trading away a legit #1 goalie, without a replacement...Im not sure we're going to see anything significant from Feaster (I hope i'm way off on that)

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#20 Dave
January 20 2011, 02:48PM
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I would be so happy if we could get Bogosian. I think we should seriously try to get schenn too. He would be pricy but it would give this franchise something to hope for. The flames have been a team floating around the middle of the league for too long. Even now they are better than 4 or 5 eastern conference teams which means they would get a pick around 8 - 11. That's good but not really the change that we need. Two faces with huge upside (granted there is a lot of risk too) potential is exactly what this organization needs.

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#21 PrairieStew
January 20 2011, 02:51PM
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@Rain Dogs

"Goaltending like a sickness with managers." That's good.

Kind of like starting pitching with baseball GM's. Can we say AJ Burnett ?

I assume you excluded Carey Price from your top 6 because his elite performance has only been this year ? Right now he is a better goalie than Kipper.

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#22 dotfras
January 20 2011, 02:54PM
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Dave wrote:

I would be so happy if we could get Bogosian. I think we should seriously try to get schenn too. He would be pricy but it would give this franchise something to hope for. The flames have been a team floating around the middle of the league for too long. Even now they are better than 4 or 5 eastern conference teams which means they would get a pick around 8 - 11. That's good but not really the change that we need. Two faces with huge upside (granted there is a lot of risk too) potential is exactly what this organization needs.

4-5 Eastern teams + Oilers = 6th or 7th pick.

I'm all for going after Schenn, not so sure about Bogo though. We have some strong D prospects in the system whilst are forwards are basically obsolete.

Unless Bogo can be had for Glencross + Pardy or something stupid I don't know if he's worth going after.

We really need to be going after picks & forward prospects.

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#23 PrairieStew
January 20 2011, 03:02PM
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icedawg_42 wrote:

no arguement on the decline, Im just mainly shocked on how quick the public turned on him..It wasnt this fast with Iggy or even Dutter. Bottom line is that IMO he's still an above average #1, and he's still able to make some retarded saves he's got no business making. I also think his numbers get hurt by shoddy play in front of him. I have no problem moving him, (or anyone save maybe Gio) because core or not (I include Iggy in this statement too) - the Flames are not contenders and it's too late to build around them (its been tried before anyway.)

- I want to also add that from listening to Feaster talk, he is basically terrified of trading away a legit #1 goalie, without a replacement...Im not sure we're going to see anything significant from Feaster (I hope i'm way off on that)

Hindsight is 20/20 but I think many of us came to this conclusion last summer. It was time to move on, the best players(Iggy, Kipper, Regehr, Langkow)were/are at a stage of their career where the best you can hope for is a slow decline. The second tier players (Bourque, Tanguay, Bowmeester, Jokinen, Sarich Hagman)as well as some third tier guys ( Glencross, Moss, Kotalik, Staios) all also being late 20 or early 30's were not going to show massive improvement either - many of them may have even hit their career ceiling in a year ( last year) when the team floundered badly after the Olympics and missed the playoffs.

I understand Feaster's goalie fear - but with the 28th best sv% in the league - can things get much worse ?

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#24 dotfras
January 20 2011, 03:06PM
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Hearing Nabokov's cap hit is like 570K for the rest of this year.....Why doesn't feaster scoop him off waivers and trade Kipper.

Problem solved.

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#25
January 20 2011, 03:13PM
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To all the Flames season ticket holders who suffered last night take a look at the Phoenix Coyotes promotion for this Saturday's game against the Kings.

Beer, soda & hot dogs for ONE DOLLAR!

http://coyotes.nhl.com/?navid=nav-teamnav-phx

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#26 PrairieStew
January 20 2011, 03:23PM
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@dotfras

Let's not get all gushy about Brayden Schenn. While he is an interesting prospect, I am not convinced he is an impact NHLer. Watching him at the WJ - he was the #1 Canadian forward, but only because there were 5 junior age guys in the NHL already. Keep in mind that he racked up a bunch of those WJ points against Norway and a weak Czech team. What's his primary attribute ? it's not shooting, skating or tough play. Is he really any better than Backlund ?

Compare him to Matt Duchene - who is only 7 months older and is already in his second full NHL season. I don't think Schenn is in his category.

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#27 Rain Dogs
January 20 2011, 03:37PM
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@PrairieStew

Yeah, I don't get romanticized by short term success (see: Carey, Jim.) Price is a very good young goalie, but he's no Hiller or Rinne.

My methodology isn't extremely complex, but it would take a while to explain here, so I won't. Certainly it is heavily weighted by today's stats, but it's also influenced by a volume chunk of career stats.

Hiller, for example, may not have seen the volume of SA at even that Luongo has (3876 vs 10147) but you can't ignore his .931, .934, .930, .935 ev sv% consistency.

Price, today is playing better than Kipper in their respective environments, but if we know anything about goalies...

today's "Best goalie ever" is tomorrow's "Worst bum in the league"

...PS, I don't see any way Nabakov doesn't get claimed on waivers at 570k. He will not be a Red Wing with that contract. If I'm Jim Rutherford I claim Nabakov solely for the simple reason of preventing the Red Wings from getting better at that price (a likely Cup competitor.) If Nabakov plays a single game and wins for the Caps... that's just a bonus. Heck Neuvirth just got hurt.

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#28 dotfras
January 20 2011, 03:44PM
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@PrairieStew

I know. Schenn would be playing on the Kings if he was the stud that some people have hyped him up as.

I was at the Norway game. One thing I noticed about his play was that he has great hockey sense & positioning. He didn't have an amazing shot or great stick handling skills, but those unteachable qualities were there for him.

Not a lot of players in that top 5 pick range could be had, so with the trade speculation a month or so ago I would think he would be a great pickup for us.

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#29 everton fc
January 20 2011, 03:51PM
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Random thoughts...

We have no scoring on the farm. This is reality. And part of the challenge here.

Why pick up Nabakov, at any price? If we move Kipper, we are pretty much conceding the season, which we should, at this point. I'd like to see Irving get a look. Everybody talks "youth", Karlsson and Irving are "youth". Let them compete. What do we have to lose?

Get what you can get for Kipper. He's 34. But he's not done.

Those I'd move, if I was GM:

Hagman. Bourque (He's under contract forever. We need to move away from these types of contracts). At this point, Glencross. Sarich and Babchuk, of possible. I'd keep Gio & Regher, and would entertain offers for Bouwmeester, whose salary is not worh 6-7 goals a season, if he even gets that many.

We need to get some young d-men in the regular rotation, with Gio and Regher, and I guess Bouwmeester, if you keep him. I think Pardy is a cheap, reliable defencemen. Why move him? His value is minimal, unless packaged...

Moss is a keeper. Iggy's a keeper. Tanguay's a keeper. We are stuck w/Jokinen. We are stuck w/Kotalik. The latter can be moved to the farm. But we have no scoring on the farm...

While Stajan's soft, he's only 26. If he can be moved, I'd move him.

Kipper may get us a decent couple of forwards, if you throw Hagman/Stajan into the mix. Or someone like Sarich... But Bouwmeester may be the best bait to land a good centre.

Regehr for Bogosian straight-up? That makes no sense to me. Bogosian would be nice to have... But I'd rather have Bergfors... Another guy I've always felt might be a good pickup, though, like Bergfors, he's on the smallish side, is Lars Eller. The Habs needs a d-man, or two... And another smallish Scandanavian who may come cheap is Bergenheim in Tampa, another team that could use some defence...

Another guy I'd like to have is Setoguchi. Kyle Clifford's another. All those name said, none give us size. We need size and speed. If at all possible.

Perhaps we take Elliott from the Sens for Kipper. A few other parts (Foligno, Regin, Zack Smith?) and we move someone like Stajan, Hagman, GlenX, a combo of this group, in a package deal?

All thoughts random.

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#30 Monaertchi
January 20 2011, 04:09PM
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"If I were GM..."

I'd keep the goalies, Regehr and Giordano, Jackman, and Tanguay (resign). Everyone else is tradeable, assuming they waive their NTC/NMC.

My highest priorities would be to trade Iggy and JBo.

I think the return from trading Kipper would be quite low considering his cap hit for 3 more years and his play as of late. Also, we have nobody to replace him at the NHL level.

Keeping Jackman while trading the likes of Iggy, JBo, Joker, etc.. might send the right message to the rest that stay - work ethic counts.

Gio is awesome

As soon as Iggy is gone, if not before, Regehr gets the C (not that a GM has that kind of authority on a team, but whatever - we're not talking reality here).

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#31 Puckmaster
January 20 2011, 04:44PM
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I agree Schenn will never be a 50 goal scorer in the NHL but he has the skills that many players dont. He is in the right place at the right time and can bury the puck when given the right oportunities. The flames will never get a Stamkos or even a Tavares (barf) via trade so they mine as well go for the best they can get. Schenn may only be a solid second liner but its better than the Stajan/Hagman/Moss/yada yada yada we have now

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#32 dotfras
January 20 2011, 05:05PM
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Thoughts:

Keep Glencross, Moss, Jackman, Giordano, Karlsson.

Barring a miracle I think we're stuck with JBo and his big ass salary. I don't mind him though, he works hard most nights & has played pretty well this year.

Trade Iggy to LA for Schenn & Simmonds. (LA has the cap room for this season and with Handzus, Sturm, Poni & Williams coming off the books at the end of the year will be fine moving forward)

Trade Regher to SJ for Setoguchi & a 2nd. (might have to add on both sides to even out cap)

Trade Kipper to WAS for Varlamov & Eakin. (might have to add on both sides to even out cap)

Get rid of all the others for whatever you can get.

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#33 dearjay
January 20 2011, 06:16PM
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Dear Jay Intellectually speaking this team honestly sucks, get started! The Fanbase

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#34 RossCreekNation
January 20 2011, 07:47PM
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Maybe the Sharks would have an interest in Kipper. We'd have to take Nittymaki back (fine by me), but what else? Setigouchi would be nice, but they'd still need to move more salary in the deal.

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#35 cereal dog
January 20 2011, 07:51PM
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Dear Jay, intellectually SCREAMING this team honestly sucks. Pick up the phone and get started. The fanbase.

dearjay, you said it so well I just had to chirp in with full support. Well done.

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#36 dotfras
January 20 2011, 07:53PM
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Kipper & Regher for Nittymaki, Wallin, Pavelski & Setoguchi.

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#37 negrilcowboy
January 20 2011, 08:02PM
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Well after that shallacking last night,the Flames owners should be asking for the Plan. Every single player in the organization should be made available. Yep, everyone.

Its amazing how quick Kippa is losing his elevated status, however is it solely Kippa or something bigger. Butter calling him out publicly hasn't realy fired up the Finn with the grin's game. The defense corp is starting to look very average as a whole. Silent Jay should be taking some heat here folks, no urgency to his game at all. The dollars shelled out for a soft smooth skating dman with limited offensive output is well offensive.

Regs for bogo, do it now, before the league figures out that raggedears is losing a half a step every 20 games.

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#38 SmellOfVictory
January 20 2011, 08:49PM
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I support many players being traded for Bogosian. Regehr, JBo, Sarich+someone (Hagman?).

@everton fc: It's true that there are a fair number of blueliners in the system compared to forwards, but picking up Bogosian would allow for one of them to potentially be traded for a forward prospect if need be, and realistically he's likely better than all of the Flames' defensive prospects at this time (at the very least he'd be top 2 currently).

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#39 OilFan
January 20 2011, 09:39PM
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@Kent Wilson

I didn't mention how good or bad Khabby is play ? So his SV% has nothing to do with the poor team if front of him?

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#40 OilFan
January 20 2011, 09:54PM
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The question I ask why would LA trade a young upcoming player for older players i.e Iggy ? The way the CBA is set up teams don't make those trades very often.

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#41 John Deere Green
January 20 2011, 10:30PM
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Like I wrote before, I don't believe the ownership group will allow Feaster to do anything of substance (ie. trading of any significant players) until they believe he is the GM going forward. With the "acting GM" tag on his name, they won't allow him to dismantle this sinking ship. I wouldn't be surprised if nothing is done until the summer when either Feaster or someone else is the full time GM. I would rather something done sooner rather than later so I know if I can raise my Flames flag in front of my house from half mast or not.

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#42 Palt
January 20 2011, 10:36PM
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I would love for the Flames to pick up Bogosian, but I wonder what Rick Dudley would want in return. Maybe, you could deal Robyn Regehr or Cory Sarich? Or maybe throw Matt Pelech with a couple of picks(oh wait, we need those) Maybe u could deal Staios(ha ha, the UNWANTED ONE).

A couple things that do worry me about Bogosian is that his cap hit is 3.375m, and the fact that hes an RFA at the end of this season. You would think that during summer negoations for a new contract the Flames could lower the cap hit, but even if u got it to around 2m$, and maybe a 3 year deal, that leaves u with Bouw at 6.68, Gio at 4.02, and Bogo at 2m. Oh yeah, and Regehr at over 4 million as well. Unless, of course, Reggie is the guy getting traded for Bogosian.

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#43 the-wolf
January 21 2011, 07:48AM
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@Kent, sorry, but when it comes to Kipper I'm just not buying the whole stats argument. To me, it's meaningless and misleading to say the least. None of those stats reflect the quality of the shots he faces or how hopelessly hungout to dry he often is, how badly the score would've been without Kipper there, the timing of some of his biggest saves to keep it close, etc.

Anyone who watches Kipper regularly would have to rate him in the top 5 goalies over the last several seasons.

This season is really the first that I've seen him play 'poorly.'

Not to say I wouldn't trade him, but the assertion that he's been on a big decline I disagree with. And I'm no cult hero worshipper either.

RE: Bogo, I'd lvoe to have him. The kind of young, offensive D we sorely need in the pipeline, especially if the team rebuilds in a scorched earth manner.

I think Atlanta would take regehr for him, he fits their system and tema dynamic, big and tough stay-at-home type who would probably pair well with Byfuglien.

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#44 the-wolf
January 21 2011, 07:56AM
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LA is an interesting situation. On one hand they're still sort of regarded as legit Cup contender (not favorite). On the other hand, the team isn't even in the playoffs right now. This poses a bit of a conundrum and LA needs to find a way to get into the playoffs this year if they can (at a reasonable cost). The fan base is great for them right now and they don't want to risk losing that, also it's important for the development of the team and their youth to take that next step forward and to gain playoff experience.

So while my ideal dream of nabbing 2 top prospects from them is just that, I actually think they'd give up more than just Schenn. I'm fairly convinced we could get Schenn and their 1st for Iggy.

Because, as much as LA won't bid against themselves, they've also painted themselves into a bit of a corner and Iggy can definately help take them over that hump.

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#45 schevvy
January 21 2011, 09:09AM
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@the-wolf

But would iggy want to go to LA? As you said they are not in the playoffs right now and in my opinion iggy would only accept a trade if he could go to a legit cup contender and I don't think LA is that

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#46 the-wolf
January 21 2011, 09:25AM
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schevvy wrote:

But would iggy want to go to LA? As you said they are not in the playoffs right now and in my opinion iggy would only accept a trade if he could go to a legit cup contender and I don't think LA is that

I think he makes them one. Still not a favorite, but I think he definately adds enough to make the playoffs and be a threat. They're better than first round fodder anyways.

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#47 dotfras
January 21 2011, 12:18PM
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Iggy on the Kings gives them that boost for sure. He also has Canada teammates Smyth & Doughty there which might entice him even more.

@Oilfan A team would give up young players to take a chance on Iggy because he still has what it takes to get it done in the NHL. He isn't the world beater that he used to be, but he wouldn't have to be in LA. He'd face middle comp with capable line mates.

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#48 CitizenFlame
January 21 2011, 01:32PM
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Why would Regehr want to go to Atlanta? He has a no trade clause as well and I'm pretty sure wants to win a cup as badly as Iggy. If these guys are waving there no trade clauses they aren't going to do it to go play for a middling team with no fans. I'm sure they would all wave their no trade clauses if asked but not to just go anywhere.

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