POSTGAME: NEVER BRING A KNIFE TO A GUN FIGHT

Vintage Flame
November 01 2011 11:42PM

 

 

Despite the two teams both coming into this game with .500 records, the Canucks showed that when they need to, they can bury a team with one foot in the grave. The Flames had put together some much needed wins. Even though they didn't look all that convincing, they had been able to hold on and out last their opposition. That just wasn't going to fly tonight however, and the Canucks made them pay by coming out strong and fast right from the get-go.

WHAT HAPPENED

It's not like Vancouver came out and gave Calgary something they hadn't seen before. It was business as usual and before the Flames knew it, they were already in chase mode. The decision to take Babchuk out of the line-up tonight was mostly in part to his ineffectiveness at ES. Instead, Matt Stajan was put in to provide further depth in the forward ranks. For the most part Calgary was in the game early, but you could see the play tip and once it started... it was a landslide. At 7:57, Chris Higgins was sprung on a breakaway and made no mistake on the deke. The play would be indicative of the night, because the pass to Higgins was a bomb and the pass seemed to get through the entire Flames line, without even so much as a tip. At 13:42, Alex Burrows, on the PP, just bullied his way through the defense and put the puck passed Kiprusoff; 2-0. Vancouver rounded out the period making it 3-0 with another goal on the PP, from Daniel Sedin. The Flames special teams looked downright awful, and the Canucks made them pay. as Kent pointed out in scoring chances, Vancouver was all over Calgary 13-3.

The damage from the first carried right into the second period. At 3:47, Cody Hodgson made it 4-0, and you could put the Flames night to bed after that. The goal was just an all out brutal effort from the players on the ice. Lapierre worked his way out of a check that should have separated him from the puck, and to top it off threw a lateral pass right across to the crease that could have been stopped at three different points, right on the stick of Hodgson, and to the back of the net. it was cruise control after that for the Nucks, and they still managed to add another to make the total 5. Calgary managed to out chance Vancouver 6-5, but going 0 for 3 on the PP doesn't help their cause, and it showed in the sloppy play.

Can the competition committee try to institute the "decline" option on the PP? In the third period the Flames again went 0 for 3, and that included a 4 min PP with Henrik Sedin in the box. It was a terrible effort and the Flames looked like they were just playing out the motions of the game. Calgary went 3 for 3 on the PK, but as mentioned before, Vancouver had already inflicted the damage, and was just skating a passing scrimmage for the rest of the game. Calgary again out chanced Vancouver, 5-2; which is a nothing stat, except for the fact that it showed just how ineptly the home team played.

ONE GOOD REASON

... why the Flames lost? Quite simply the Flames were not even close to being the better of these two teams. Despite the Canucks only being .500 at this point, they are still the best team in this division and they are a team that knows how to move in for the kill. Babchuk out of the line-up was not a solution for this defense, it was merely a way to limit the bleeding. The Flames have a slower defense core and when you put that against some very fast and talented opposition forwards, it's not hard to guess who comes out on top. The Iginla line matching was a disaster all night. Even when the Captain showed some momentum, it was quickly quelled

RED WARRIOR

 

I really tried to find a silver lining in this game. I was half serious in the chat room when I said that if Karlsson didn't allow a goal, I would choose him as the Red Warrior. In the end, the damage was done, so I can't give it to Hank. I will give honorable mention to Alex Tanguay. he scored the goal to end Lu's bid for the shutout, and he wasn't on the ice for any of the Nucks goals. After all is said and done, the whole team failed tonight. no individual distinction.

SUM IT UP

The holes that are in the Flames game right now got exploited by Vancouver. They weren't able to mask deficiencies in one area with the play of another. The next step is to take as much as you can from this game and learn from the mistakes; lord knows there were enough of them. Schools in boys...let's move on. the Red Wings are next and are also struggling, having dropped 5 in a row. Flames need to regroup and right the ship.

E42f2ca09dfb26046c3060ff46473aff
Vintage Flame is a Calgary based sports junkie that prefers to call hockey a "religion" rather than an addiction. He believes there are two types of hockey fans. Those who cheer for the Flames, and those who don't understand the sport yet. Follow Vintage_Flame on Twitter
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#51 RexLibris
November 02 2011, 03:49PM
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I was watching last night and wondering if the Flames were going to get to the same benchmark as my Oilers did in 2009 against Buffalo when the home crowd started chanting "We Want 10!".

I totally understand why this blowout hurts. Part of the pain is on the scoreboard but the majority of it lies in the action (or inaction as the case may be). Your team looked awful last night and they were exploited by what I would characterize as a Canucks team that is still trading on what they were last year. The Canucks are good, but they were still taking bad penalties and missing some passes because the opportunities were there for this game to have been much, much worse.

So is this appetite for a rebuild actually there amongst the fans? If it meant seeing Iginla in a Toronto sweater? Or a Bruins jersey? Would the fanbase actually support a systematic dismantling of the roster? I ask because it has always seemed to me that Calgary would want to build a team a different way, avoiding a full-demolition and preferring for a renovation rather than a rebuild.

If the Flames do decide to do a rebuild then the one area that should receive the most attention and scrutiny from the fanbase and bloggers is the scouting dept. Getting the 1st overall pick right is the easy part, picking right at 31, 61, etc is what will make a rebuild successful.

If I were a Flames fan I would also live in terror of the dreaded "run to mediocrity" that always seems to happen to the Flames and Leafs each year. It papers over the flaws in the team and buys time for the management to keep the status quo.

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#52 Kevin R
November 02 2011, 05:03PM
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Everyone isnt too confident we can draft our way out of a paper bag. But in Reality, I think Feaster did OK on short notice while still dealing with a DSutter dogs breakfast. That is changing & Rex yes we think we can deal with a wave of prime draft picks next year & pick some pretty solid players. What we have the Oiulers didnt seem to have is more assets to get not only the prime draft picks but also NHL top prospects. Done right wwill be huge, just look at your Penner rape & pillage. Once we re establish our young core, seasoned veterans are a dime a dpzen to fill in the blanks later. So I dont think this will happen Oiler style but it wont be Philly style.

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#53 everton fc
November 02 2011, 05:30PM
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Luc wrote:

almost everything u said here if off base in my opinion. Kent already took care of the young forward talent line idea.

i am definately all for moving the likes of bourque, stajan, hagman, babchuk, all the guys we want gone. however! im not silly enough to expect 3rd round picks and a roster player either. we have to keep it in focus. we know these players are bad. SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE and the more they dont play the more they ahve less value. because if we were to be honest and feaster got rid of hagman for a 6th... LOTS of regular contributors on this site would lose their minds thinking feaster is an idiot and got fleeced blah blah blah.

this team now is SUTTERS mess. feaster hasent even had 2 months into a season and everyone wants him fired. what was he to do??? our assests were untradble in the offseason if we wanted to be anywhere close to competitve and NO ONE was taking our garbage. we had to deal reggie and lanks ( who btw was a giant question mark ) to move this team even remotely forward.

I see a hold pattern for most of the season and then the sell off at the trade deadline to be the most logical plan for the club. if calgary wouldnt rip him apart i beleive feaster should be moving our "aging stars" to contenders for futures and younger players, remaining however, level headed in expectations of the return.

we need to change the direction of this team. YES i agree 100%. but making dumba$$ moves like firing the coaching staff and everyone that has a position in the flames org, have to be tempered. sutter cant control effort. i want to see what he does when he has players THAT ACTUALLY ARE PLAYING A ROLE THEY EXCEL AT. and see what he does. an example is Jokinen. he is doing his best and i beleive he is doing a decent job. but not a natural. morrison shouldnt be on this team. and we should be moving big money sooner rather then later and re-directing the PLAYERS focus.

Good reply. But we hear the same every season. "The coach doesn't control the effort" "No need to fire the whole coaching staff". "Give Feaster time"...

Doesn't matter - Feaster will get time. But he'll never build and organization like the Wings.

And that should be what we are shooting for.

At lease Tambellini seems to be shooting at something big.

And I think Feaster's fingerprints are certainly on this current squad.

@Kent

Comments inserted below:

"Err, no...for many reasons.

1.) The Oilers success in OCT was based on several things that won't last...one of which was Khabibulin being one of the best goalies in the league. - Perhaps. Perhaps a two-goalie system works for them. Time will tell.

2.) The Flames don't have three high-end first roudners to put on one line. Baertschi, Horak, Ferland et al are nowhere near the quality of Hall, Eberle and RNH. - I know. But we could next season with some smart moves. That's what I was getting at.

3.) The Oilers have been burying Smyth and Horcoff to make all this happen and they have kept their heads above water. You couldn't do that with Iginla and Tanguay. They'd get killed. - I thought you'd say that. Can't necessarily disagree, on the surface. But if Iginla and Tanguay could be utilized differently... We simply need a better first line, and these two are no longer first line material.

4.) Even with all that noted, the Oilers have some of the worst underlying numbers in the West. They'll come crashing back down to earth at some point. - I think they'll make the playoffs, 7-8 slot.

I say a complete organizational shift is due. Now. Not later.

Probably won't happen, I know. At least not this season. Nor next. And I have no faith Feaster is our man. Why people think he may be boggles my mind.

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#54 SmellOfVictory
November 02 2011, 06:10PM
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RexLibris wrote:

I was watching last night and wondering if the Flames were going to get to the same benchmark as my Oilers did in 2009 against Buffalo when the home crowd started chanting "We Want 10!".

I totally understand why this blowout hurts. Part of the pain is on the scoreboard but the majority of it lies in the action (or inaction as the case may be). Your team looked awful last night and they were exploited by what I would characterize as a Canucks team that is still trading on what they were last year. The Canucks are good, but they were still taking bad penalties and missing some passes because the opportunities were there for this game to have been much, much worse.

So is this appetite for a rebuild actually there amongst the fans? If it meant seeing Iginla in a Toronto sweater? Or a Bruins jersey? Would the fanbase actually support a systematic dismantling of the roster? I ask because it has always seemed to me that Calgary would want to build a team a different way, avoiding a full-demolition and preferring for a renovation rather than a rebuild.

If the Flames do decide to do a rebuild then the one area that should receive the most attention and scrutiny from the fanbase and bloggers is the scouting dept. Getting the 1st overall pick right is the easy part, picking right at 31, 61, etc is what will make a rebuild successful.

If I were a Flames fan I would also live in terror of the dreaded "run to mediocrity" that always seems to happen to the Flames and Leafs each year. It papers over the flaws in the team and buys time for the management to keep the status quo.

There are some teams I wouldn't mind seeing Iginla on if it meant a good return for the Flames and an opportunity for him to win the cup. Pittsburg and LA would be two, and weirdly enough I'd enjoy him in SJ or Chicago - two teams I used to hate until I started conversing with some of the fans and watched them play more regularly.

That said, it's highly unlikely he'd go to a contender until next season's trade deadline, when his contract wouldn't be a concern in terms of cap space.

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#55 OilFan
November 02 2011, 06:13PM
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" the Oilers have some of the worst underlying numbers in the West".It is obvious that the Oilers season won't last as it has started,just wondering what those numbers are ? 1st in blocked shots in the NHL, least goal against, top 3 PK,top 3 faceoff %, most blocked shots seem to be helping.

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#56 Kent Wilson
November 02 2011, 06:46PM
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@OilFan

Possession numbers OF.

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#57 Kevin R
November 02 2011, 07:24PM
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OilFan wrote:

" the Oilers have some of the worst underlying numbers in the West".It is obvious that the Oilers season won't last as it has started,just wondering what those numbers are ? 1st in blocked shots in the NHL, least goal against, top 3 PK,top 3 faceoff %, most blocked shots seem to be helping.

Enjoy the ride buddy, especially after these last few years. Thing is, I remember when Gilbert was coach & Turek was playing to get that dummy Button to give him some longterm retarded contract, we went like 14-2-1 & were one of the top 3 teams in the league. By Christmas, we were out of a playoff spot in our conference & Gilbert was fired & Button had 2 feet on a banana peel.

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#58 Rickymac
November 02 2011, 09:33PM
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3 points regarding Feaster and big reasons why I am frightened to let him be the guy to retool.rebuilt this team:

1-He is the guy who resigned Babchuk to a 2 YEAR deal! What the hell, does he talk to his coach, it was obvious last year that Sutter does not like the guy so the GM signs him to a new deal.

2-How stupid did Feaster think we are when he crowed that the Flames came in second in the Brad Richards sweepstakes. WE ALL KNEW THAT THERE WASN'T A HOPE IN HELL HE WAS COMING TO CALGARY!! Unbelieveable

3. He trades Regehr and makes a big point of how much he had to have Byron as part of the trade. My god, the Sabres have at least 6 guys in the minors who are demonstrably better forwards than Byron. So where is Byron now-Abbotsford!

I know I could add to this ranr but it is very scary to think what Feaster (and of course the probable actual GM Ken KIng) are going to do this once proud franchise

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#59 Emir
November 02 2011, 09:46PM
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@Rickymac

don't worry KK will run the franchise into the ground as long as he is at the helm. Savvy business sense, but has as much hockey sense as a doorknob.

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#60 everton fc
November 02 2011, 10:25PM
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Rickymac wrote:

3 points regarding Feaster and big reasons why I am frightened to let him be the guy to retool.rebuilt this team:

1-He is the guy who resigned Babchuk to a 2 YEAR deal! What the hell, does he talk to his coach, it was obvious last year that Sutter does not like the guy so the GM signs him to a new deal.

2-How stupid did Feaster think we are when he crowed that the Flames came in second in the Brad Richards sweepstakes. WE ALL KNEW THAT THERE WASN'T A HOPE IN HELL HE WAS COMING TO CALGARY!! Unbelieveable

3. He trades Regehr and makes a big point of how much he had to have Byron as part of the trade. My god, the Sabres have at least 6 guys in the minors who are demonstrably better forwards than Byron. So where is Byron now-Abbotsford!

I know I could add to this ranr but it is very scary to think what Feaster (and of course the probable actual GM Ken KIng) are going to do this once proud franchise

Good points, especially on Byron. To me, he has not proven he's nothing more than a smallish, career minor-leaguer. He's 5'9". Smallish. Not many of these types make the big time. What kind of impact were they expecting?

I guess we all seem to think Feaster was the one who forced the signing of Babchuk on Brent. If so... An obvious blunder, as he rides the pines, paid way too much for his role...

Back the the Regher deal - Kotalik is waived, no one picks him up, so he goes home. Could we not have done this? The return in Regher was horrific. As far as the salary dump... That, too, is getting old.

We are a rudderless ship. You can even see it on the ice. Top down, things have to change.

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#61 schevvy
November 02 2011, 11:00PM
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Ok, before I start my rant I have to say: LETHBRIDGE WON!!!!! The Lethbridge Hurricanes have snapped a 13 game losing streak!!!

Anyways, now for my rant, people are panicking way, way, way too early. I understand, it was a bad game, they played terrible, and played with 0 effort after the Higgins goal. That being said, it is 1 game! 1! Against an elite team like Vancouver! This is exactly what the people here at FlamesNation have been saying for a while now, the Flames are a middle of the road team who can't really compete with the elite teams. I don't understand all the negativity. We knew this could very well happen! For people to say, we're done after 1 game is ludicrous! Hell, we lost 6-0 at home to Minnesota last year! The f-ing Minnesota Wild. And what did the team do? Move on, forget about it, and they went on a 6 game winning streak after it. If you look at the bigger picture, the Flames have 4 points out of a possible 6, won 2 out of their last 3 games. Do that for the rest of the year and they'll be fine. If it's like this in December/January, fine, panic, say the season's over, whatever. But to say that after 10 games, and more specifically after this one game, it is ridiculous. Maybe cause I live in Lethbridge, I don't know, but I'm not panicking.

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#62 Kevin R
November 02 2011, 11:38PM
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@schevvy

Congrats on the win down there Shevvy! Agree, Babchuk was probably a bad signing, we've seen worse signings eh? Feaster has this year for me. If we suck & he does nothing this trade deadline & shows no direction other than we think we have a good team, I'll be joining the masses. But you know, I went to some other sites & read the dialogue of fans in Buffalo & Detroit. Holy smokes, Red Wing fans are getting worse than here. Difference is, they have high expectations & they've lost 5 in a row!! We only lost 1. Go read the Buffalo comments after tonights game. They are ready to give Miller away!!! You suddenly realize we are not the only suffering hockey fans in the universe. What it also told me is stay the course, if we can just get our heads around the fact that this is going to be a huge transition year on contracts & quit thinking this team should be regularly winning. .500 hockey is not a playoff bound team, it will be a top 10 picking team next June. We are at best a .500 hockey team. We have some very very good assets and we can get top dollar come January/Feb. I have faith this team can be young and exciting and competitive in two years. Unless Feaster screws it up :):):)

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#63 jeremywilhelm
November 03 2011, 09:27AM
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Nice. Wings are slumping. Great chance for Flames to play slump buster here!!

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#64 jeremywilhelm
November 03 2011, 10:04AM
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AND Iginla jokinen together with no Tanguay?! Awesome!!

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#65 icedawg_42
November 03 2011, 10:09AM
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jeremywilhelm wrote:

Nice. Wings are slumping. Great chance for Flames to play slump buster here!!

hahaha..are you following my twitter? I said this exact thing this morning lol.

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#66 jeremywilhelm
November 03 2011, 10:16AM
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@icedawg_42

Great minds my friend.

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#67 RexLibris
November 03 2011, 10:20AM
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I found this on a link from Puckdaddy comparing NHL teams to bands:

Calgary Flames are ‘N SYNC They're one man shows, and everyone knows it. It's the star that receives all the accolades and has driven their success. Without them, they would be nothing. The supporting cast are a group of professional journeymen living off the scraps handed down to them by their famous leader. The leader will continue to achieve individual success on the international stage but will never achieve anything with the group again. To be fair, their fan base is inclined to show support to the team by sexual displays of flashing or garment tossing.

The link is here http://www.bloguin.com/puckdrunklove/2011-articles/november/around-the-league-in-33-bands.html

I agree with Kevin R. If you guys win or lose against Detroit 3-2 and show better I think you'll all move past this. And yeah, think about how the sky is falling for fans in Detroit, Boston, Vancouver, etc. The league looks upside down right now and whenever that happens, when the perceived status quo turns over, there is panic from those accustomed to a certain place.

From where I sit though, you guys are a whole lot farther away from restocking than just a top-10 pick this year. Any serious talk of a rebuild in Calgary should start with aiming for a top 3 pick this year and the year after. Otherwise you risk becoming like the Columbus Blue Jackets, forever fluctuating between average and awful. But if Feaster targets a retool then I really have no idea where he starts, because the UFAs coming available are going to be so hotly contested I highly doubt enough of them land in Calgary to really make a difference.

Then again, I'm not a GM, so we'll see what Feaster can accomplish.

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#68 RexLibris
November 03 2011, 10:26AM
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Here's Vancouver's band comparison in case you were wondering:

Vancouver Canucks are Metallica They're sore losers who cry about being victims of their own shortcomings and failure to adapt to a changing landscape when it really mattered. It’s almost impossible to have a conversation with one of their fans since they’re so consumed with their heroes they are unable to see reality clearly. Also have a female fan base than enjoys taking off their shirts much to the chagrin of men everywhere. (Did you see that swamp donkey in the Stanley Cup finals? I'd riot too if that was the best my city had to offer.)

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#69 schevvy
November 03 2011, 10:56AM
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Flames projected lines tonight:

Glencross- Jokinen- Igjnla Tanguay- Morrison- Stempniak Bourque- Horak- Moss Kostopoulous- Stajan- Jackman

What the hell are those top two lines?? Iggy's in a slump, so Sutter's gonna put him with someone who has zero, zero, zero chemistry with him in Jokinen? Ludicrous! Second line looks bad too. Why aren't Glencross, Moss snd Jokinen together? Wow Brent, I sure hope these don't happen.

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#70 SmellOfVictory
November 03 2011, 11:16AM
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schevvy wrote:

Flames projected lines tonight:

Glencross- Jokinen- Igjnla Tanguay- Morrison- Stempniak Bourque- Horak- Moss Kostopoulous- Stajan- Jackman

What the hell are those top two lines?? Iggy's in a slump, so Sutter's gonna put him with someone who has zero, zero, zero chemistry with him in Jokinen? Ludicrous! Second line looks bad too. Why aren't Glencross, Moss snd Jokinen together? Wow Brent, I sure hope these don't happen.

It hasn't worked in the past, but in fairness Jokinen has made significant strides in how he plays. They still have a very good playmaker in Tanguay, and there's a chance that Iginla will score on some of Jokinen's post rebounds. The only other not-injured player I'd rather see centering Tanguay and Iginla is Horak.

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#71 jeremywilhelm
November 03 2011, 11:31AM
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@SmellOfVictory

Tanguay isnt playing with them. And no, Joker hasnt made any strides. He is still a moron in all three zones, just slightly less in the defensive zone than before he came here.

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#72 RKD
November 03 2011, 12:02PM
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Games like this make me lean towards a major rebuild. We need young, fast, talented players.

First, I would replace Matt Stajan with Paul Bryon. Paul has speed, enthusiasm and drive. Sure Stajan is good on face-offs, but he's not a fourth line checker. Stajan is the wrong spot on this team.

Hopefully, the return of Backlund can spark the Flames. I would insert Backlund as the #1 center because Morrison isn't doing anything right now. Moss has been up and down on the first line.

If the Flames are in the sweepstakes for Turris, I say bring him on if the price isn't too steep. He's 22 years old, if he falters now he still has time to recover.

Bring back Nigel Dawes, lots of speed and was able to score.

Maybe the Flames will look like this in December:

Tanguay-Backlund/Horak-Iginla Glencross-Jokinen/Turris-Moss Bourque-Turris/Jokinen-Hagman/Kostop Dawes-Horak-Jackman/Morrison

No room for Stajan.

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#73 SmellOfVictory
November 03 2011, 12:07PM
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jeremywilhelm wrote:

Tanguay isnt playing with them. And no, Joker hasnt made any strides. He is still a moron in all three zones, just slightly less in the defensive zone than before he came here.

I definitely need to work on reading entire lines as opposed to just scanning.

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