STOKING THE FIRE - NOVEMBER 16TH

Vintage Flame
November 16 2011 01:51PM

 

There is the old saying that states "no news is good news", right? That was not the case for the Flames fan base this week, when they finally got the news on what many fans had speculated on and even complained had not happened yet. In addition to that, the fans were pretty much unanimous in agreement and saying, "Finally...", when the core received the media's version of 40 lashes in the town's square that left a bitter taste in the mouths of the players... publically at least.

WE HAVE A MATCH

Let's start with the story that has the fans in a buzz: the decision to put Nik Hagman on waivers was one that wasn't going to come as a surprise since he had been a healthy scratch repeatedly. The only thing really left to wonder was whether Feaster had the stones to actually do it. Well he did, and Hagman was on his way to Abbotsford... and then he was on his way back. Almost immediately Nik was placed on re-entry waivers, which really only meant one thing - and no it wasn't that Jay had seen the error of his ways and wanted the Finn back. No, it meant that obviously no one wanted Hagman at full price, so the Flames wanted to see, quickly, if someone would bite at half the price.

Well it worked and on Monday morning the Anaheim Ducks claimed Nik Hagman and it seemed like a win-win-win situation for all three parties. Or is it? Obviously for Hagman it is better to be playing, rather than sitting in the press box. When teammate and countryman, Olli Jokinen found out, he was actually quite frank on the matter, stating,

“He’s probably going to play with Saku (Koivu) and Teemu (Selanne),” said Jokinen. “It’s a lot better than being in the press box eating hotdogs and popcorn. It’s not a bad situation at all.”

The move seems to be a good one also for the Anaheim Ducks. The team is struggling and if Hagman 'Finn'ishes off the line of Selanne and Koivu, then more than likely you can expect an increase in his production.

So that's two down, leaing the Flames with the third win in my makeshift equation right? It seems like a no-brainer that Calgary won in the move, because after all, it was the Flames that put him on re-entry waivers with the hopes that he would be claimed. So what's the problem then? The problem is, not all people believe Calgary was in the right for putting Hagman on waivers.

The best way to stoke a good fire is with a little Matchsticks and Gasoline.  Scott Lepp believes that the Flames let another one bite the dust, not because Hagman wasn't a productive member of the team, but rather that he was misused by the Flames; thereby making him a disaster of their own creation. While there be some merit to this theory, I am not of the opinion, shared by some, that Hagman is going to go on some crazy 'finnish' to this season, and score 30 goals. It's just not going to happen. if it does, I'll print this paragraph, and literally, eat my words.

Whatever the outcome is for Hagman in Anaheim is irrelevant to the Flames, I hope everyone knows that. If he does manage to score 30 down in Californ-i-a, don't get all bent out of shape about another stupid move that wasn't given the opportunity to reach his full potential with the Flames; he wasn't going to score 30 here, and in the end that's all that matters.

SACREBLEU

The only thing better than the Flames finally making a permanent roster decision was seeing someone publicly rip the team for their performance. I don't know which is more frustrating now; watching the team lose or hearing people in the organization say "Well, it is what it is". Pardon?

During the intermission of Saturday's game against Colorado, HNiC's Kelly Hrudey had had just about enough. The usually mild mannered CBC Co-host was asked a simple lead-in question as to the play of the Flames this year. It was a spark that led to more fire than the Flames team has shown all year, save the Redwings game.

 

 

I don't know about you, but I don't have a single problem with anything Kelly had to say in this rant. Not one! I actually found myself smiling listening to Hrudey going on, and not letting up. Why should it make any difference to the fan base in regards to relieving some of our frustrations? Well it probably won't, but it sure did feel good hearing someone say it out loud where we know Bourque would hear it. And hear it Rene did; needless to say, il était un peu contrarié.

Bourque has 5 points so far this season, all goals, no assists, and they came in 3 games. He has been pointless 14 times out of 17 games and that includes a nine game streak. The numbers pretty much solidify what Hrudey had to say about Bourque, yet the Flames winger said that Kelly was out of line and his comments were uncalled for?

"I definitely don't agree with him going on national TV to rip me like that. I know the guy, see him around the rink once in a while, he's always nice. But for him to say that about me? I didn't agree with it at all." - Rene Bourque

Now I've never seen anyone come out after a lashing like that and say, 'yeah, I deserved that'... But Rene should have. Bourque's reaction was pretty typical of what we have seen of and heard from the Flames all season. Only hearing one side, what they want to hear. I'm not saying that Bourque wanted to HNiC rip him on national TV, but he only heard what he wanted, in order to defend himself. He obviously wasn't listening to why Hrudey said what he did.

"He could be a top-10 scorer. If he didn't have talent, I wouldn't be mad." - Hrudey

Bourque may not have agreed with the manner in which Hrudey decided to deliver his message, but at this point, that should be the least of his concerns. You only have one defense when it comes to defamation of character, the truth. In this situation, Borkie just had his case dismissed.

Domebeers did a fly-by on Tuesday with his quick take and a different angle on what might be the Bourque myth. It may not be a question of heart or passion, maybe the dude is just getting older and his injuries are catching up to him? It's an interesting perspective, but I don't think it get's Rene off the hook. Injuries aside, he's not doing the job and seems both apathetic and complacent in his role on the club...Come to think of it, a lot of the players do lately.

E42f2ca09dfb26046c3060ff46473aff
Vintage Flame is a Calgary based sports junkie that prefers to call hockey a "religion" rather than an addiction. He believes there are two types of hockey fans. Those who cheer for the Flames, and those who don't understand the sport yet. Follow Vintage_Flame on Twitter
Avatar
#1 the-wolf
November 16 2011, 02:33PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
2
props

Good article and I agree with almost everything except for this: "don't get all bent out of shape about another stupid move that wasn't given the opportunity to reach his full potential with the Flames; he wasn't going to score 30 here, and in the end that's all that matters."

I don't think he'll go on a huge tear until the end of the season, but he will play better.

That out of the way, the real question if it happened is why didn't he score 30 goals here?

It's like saying that Bertuzzi and Stuart were never going to play well here. True, they weren't. But why are they effective in Detroit?

Why has Phaneuf finally taken a step forward in TO?

What's wrong with the way this organization develops and implements players and systems?

So, IMO, if Hagman does take off it does matter because it highlights a Flames' organizational weakness.

Avatar
#2 loudogYYC
November 16 2011, 02:35PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props

Hrudey said what was needed to be said. It was sincere and it came from a Season Ticket Holder that knows more about hockey than most of us will ever know.

For the sake of the team, I hope Bourque was truly embarrassed. It looked like it last night when he was actually trying to win battles and attack. Let's hope it doesn't fade away by Friday.

Avatar
#3 Domebeers.com
November 16 2011, 02:40PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

This is why I could never be a scout. I take a look and see a guy who has never generated more than 218 shots on a season. In fact in his six season in the league (excluding the current one) he has generated more than 200 shots exactly twice.

Put simply, he doesn't generate nearly enough shots in my mind for people to have any basis to assume he could be a 40 goal scorer.

40 goal scorers, Iggy, Ovi, Ilya, Crosby, Perry, et al. generate ~300 shots on the seasons they do score 40 or more. Bourque has never even sniffed that number.

He is a 20 goal scorer who can get hot. That's what he is.

Avatar
#4 the-wolf
November 16 2011, 02:46PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Domebeers.com wrote:

This is why I could never be a scout. I take a look and see a guy who has never generated more than 218 shots on a season. In fact in his six season in the league (excluding the current one) he has generated more than 200 shots exactly twice.

Put simply, he doesn't generate nearly enough shots in my mind for people to have any basis to assume he could be a 40 goal scorer.

40 goal scorers, Iggy, Ovi, Ilya, Crosby, Perry, et al. generate ~300 shots on the seasons they do score 40 or more. Bourque has never even sniffed that number.

He is a 20 goal scorer who can get hot. That's what he is.

I think people note his size, speed, power and accuracy of his shot and wonder why he doesn't do more.

Does he not get more than 200 shots because he's lazy or overrated? I'd venture lazy, but that my opinion.

In the end, I guess it doesn't really matter.

Avatar
#6 negrilcowboy
November 16 2011, 02:58PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

the public lashing of borque was well over due, however i dont see rene as anything more than a two time 27 goal guy who is now on the downward spiral. if only some media type would have the stones to rip iggy for his lax defensive effort the world would be a whole lot better.

Avatar
#7 RexLibris
November 16 2011, 03:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I think the Bourque/Penner comparison has just entered a new chapter.

Btw, VF, that's not a very large paragraph to have to eat. I'd have been more impressed if youd' said you'd print and eat one of my posts. With sauerkraut. And bitter lemon. a la Terry Jones. ;)

Bourque responded with a good game against Ottawa, but in all honesty, the contrast between his on-ice response and his verbal response to Hrudey almost seems to hurt his case. I'm left thinking "so you'll try after someone calls you passive and disinterested but you won't actually take those comments to heart and own your failings thus far?" I agree with you in that it showed a kind of callous disregard for the professionalism and drive towards improvement that you would hope to see from your high-profile athletes.

There, I kept that one under 1000-words.

Avatar
#8 icedawg_42
November 16 2011, 03:13PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props

If Hags goes on a tear and scores 20+ this season it will be for one reason alone: Planting him on a line with Teemu and Koivu is a DAMN SIGHT better than ANYTHING the Flames roster could accomodate at this point. Let's face it, Hagman couldnt score because we have at 6 identical forwards on this team, they would all do better with some talent around them. Dutter said they were "20 goal scorers" when he brought them in - that doesnt mean they drove that offense, just that they were part of it. As far as Bork, Hrudey just said aloud what ever Flames fan thinks all the time. The fact that Bork was one of the best players on the ice last night after that tongue lashing PROVES it.

Rex is right - the response on ice just proved that he CAN do it, just chooses not to.

Avatar
#9 Kent Wilson
November 16 2011, 03:20PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@the-wolf

I'm no ardent defender of the organization, but I'm going to have to say there are a number of counter examples to suggest the problem isn't necessarily systemic.

For instance, Mark Giordano, David Moss, Rene Bourque (before he fell off a cliff), Curtis Glencross are all guys who grew into significant NHL contributors to one degree or another as Flames. Huselius had his career seasons in Calgary as did Daymond Langkow.

That's not to say the Flames have been excellent at player procurement and deveelopment over the years or anything...just that the idea that everyone who comes to the Flames fails relative to expectations isn't necessarily accurate.

Avatar
#10 otto
November 16 2011, 03:39PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
2
props

Why did it take an outsider to call out Bourque?Don't we have a coaching staff or team captain who can do that?

Avatar
#11 RexLibris
November 16 2011, 04:01PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Kent Wilson

I'd agree with you, Kent.

Some teams have guys that succeed others wilt, it depends on finding the right fit. Why did Penner seem to do alright some years on a bad team with little depth and then has so far been absolutely awful on a good team with good linemates?

The problem so far seems to be that in Calgary's case they find a lot more of the underachievers than the overachievers. I would also say that 20 goal scorers are usually complimentary guys that do well in a deeper rotation, which Calgary doesn't have. After Iginla and his wingman-de-jour it drops off a bit and those kinds of players just can't make up the difference.

Avatar
#12 Jeff Lebowski
November 16 2011, 04:02PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props

Calgary doesn't use the middle of the ice offensively. Since Darryl Sutter took over to today this team has been built to play the game against the boards.

There is very little playmaking talent that has come through Calgary and virtually none has been drafted or developed.

In the skill department there are players who can shoot the puck. It's important and you have to have those kind of guys, the more the better. However what this teams desperately needs is playmaking skill. One or two guys who can hold on to the puck, break down defenses with one on one skills instead of just chipping it down the wall.

Marc Savard was that kind of player. I see some of it in Backlund--he tries to create stuff through the middle of the ice. Hopefully it continues.

The problem is the organization is full of Darryl Sutter third line heavies. Feaster tried to address it this offseason and draft.

Brent's system is the best for the personnel. I look at his Devil's days and they didn't play the same way. He had different players, more skilled with the puck on that team.

My fear is that players like Horak, Byron and Backlund get turned into these low risk dumpers.

You got to let offensive minded players play offense and that means take some risks to make plays.

The league is no longer set up for 2-1 close checking games. You have to be able to create offense in a quick transition high skill game. Calgary plays an archaic style. Sit back, play tight, dump and grind.

It's changing for the better with Feaster's philosophy. However Brent Sutter needs to use the skill and not negate it. That's the difference between last years good stretch and this season. Last year the Flames were making plays and playing with confidence with puck ie not dumping it everytime. This year they are playing afraid to make mistakes.

That's why Hagman, Bourque etc are underachieving.

Avatar
#13 Bean-counting cowboy
November 16 2011, 04:03PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
otto wrote:

Why did it take an outsider to call out Bourque?Don't we have a coaching staff or team captain who can do that?

Amen brother.

Avatar
#14 negrilcowboy
November 16 2011, 04:08PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
otto wrote:

Why did it take an outsider to call out Bourque?Don't we have a coaching staff or team captain who can do that?

my thoughts exactly, where is the so called leadership in the room as well as the staff. its the coaches job to motivate as well as strategize.

Avatar
#15 Bean-counting cowboy
November 16 2011, 04:08PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
RexLibris wrote:

I'd agree with you, Kent.

Some teams have guys that succeed others wilt, it depends on finding the right fit. Why did Penner seem to do alright some years on a bad team with little depth and then has so far been absolutely awful on a good team with good linemates?

The problem so far seems to be that in Calgary's case they find a lot more of the underachievers than the overachievers. I would also say that 20 goal scorers are usually complimentary guys that do well in a deeper rotation, which Calgary doesn't have. After Iginla and his wingman-de-jour it drops off a bit and those kinds of players just can't make up the difference.

"I would also say that 20 goal scorers are usually complimentary guys that do well in a deeper rotation, which Calgary doesn't have. After Iginla and his wingman-de-jour it drops off a bit"

I thought all the talk going into the season was that the Flames strength was forward depth. That the 1st line couldn't compete with other 1st lines, but after that, our depth lines would have a greater scoring chance differential.

There should be plenty enough depth on the Flames for scoring forwards to succeed. If we have lost this as a strength then we truly are in BIG trouble.

Avatar
#16 CitizenFlame
November 16 2011, 05:33PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@otto

Do you think that its appropriate for a coach or the captain to rip another player in the media? They should do it in the dressing room but not in the media.

Avatar
#17 otto
November 16 2011, 05:38PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@CitizenFlame

I never said it should be done in the media.

Avatar
#20 RexLibris
November 16 2011, 06:01PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Vintage Flame

Don't worry, I won't say I told you so.

Back in 2006 and 2007 and even 2008 most Oiler fans, myself included, kept looking at the roster and saying "well this guy is capable of getting to x pts and that guy, with the right support, could maybe achieve y pts" and so on and so forth. We all looked at guys like Jacques and Stortini and Nilsson and Staios and saw what we thought they were projected to be or what they had once achieved in a game and therefore ought to be able to achieve it again. It wasn't until it all went sideways that we started to realize that we were looking at things without any objectivity. This summer when I looked into the Flames roster and we started our little debate about the projection of this group I was struck by the similarities. There are a lot of pieces on the roster of the Flames that aren't there for the right reasons and don't appear to have the requisite support, be it on their line or on other lines, to be able to be successful.

There are pieces there it's just that many of them are the wrong pieces and mismatched. Jokinen might be a decent 3rd line centre on the right team. Bourque is probably a good depth winger who can achieve when he is playing behind depth. In some ways it is very similar to the Oilers' defensive situation. Smid would be an awesome 5/6 defenseman, and Gilbert would be really good in a 3/4 role. The reality is that we aren't there yet.

I actually felt that the forward depth of the Flames was a detriment because it meant that there were a lot of 9s and 10s and no Kings or Aces.

Look on the bright side, I know this is a fan site, but from a blogging perspective have you ever had more to write about this early in the season?

Avatar
#21 Kent Wilson
November 16 2011, 06:18PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@RexLibris

I would also say that 20 goal scorers are usually complimentary guys that do well in a deeper rotation, which Calgary doesn't have. After Iginla and his wingman-de-jour it drops off a bit and those kinds of players just can't make up the difference.

That used to be the Flames problem. When Iginla was at his peak, it was him, Conroy and about 17 guys named "Chad". Sutter managed to shore things up slowly over the years, but it cost him dollars and futures. The team never added another elite talent up front.

The problem is now that Iginla isn't elite. No one is on the Flames. They have plenty of relatively effective support players, but there isn't one guy who can play against other big guns and be reasonably expected to win even half the time. Heck, the Flames don't even have a top-notch PP player.

Calgary is a team of four rather good third lines. It's good enough to beat the lesser lights more often than not, but little else.

Avatar
#22 Brent G.
November 16 2011, 08:01PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Kent Wilson

"The team never added another elite talent up front"

You are forgetting about Cammalleri and Tanguay (when he was first acquired). Tanguay is getting old but one of the stupidest things Sutter ever did was let Cammalleri go because he is still an elite player.

Avatar
#23 RexLibris
November 16 2011, 08:01PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props

@Kent Wilson

Yeah, that's more or less what I had argued back in the summer, that the Flames roster was a bargain bin of 3rd liners and also-rans. I'm not saying any of this to be mean, but rather more like a veteran of a different war telling stories of his useless officer corps.

I grew up watching a team that iced David Oliver, Nick Stadjuhar, Dean McAmmond, Mats Lindgren, and Greg Hawgood as headliners. That kind of thing leaves scars no therapist can touch. You guys ever heard of Jiri Dopita? Neither had most of us until Sather brought him in to try him out. He was called the European Mark Messier. Apparently something was lost in translation there, because the Moose he most definitely was not. But he played here because we didn't have anyone better to put in his place.

So when I criticize the Flames roster as being not nearly good enough and that the trade value many fans are placing on Iginla is the value he has in their eyes and their memories, I speak not out of malice. That's about as much sympathy as I can muster for the Flames, and if the Flames do start a blow-it-up rebuild expect more than a few Oiler fans to come in here and unload some of the same comments we got when we started down our path. It probably takes more guts to be a steadfast fan during a rebuild than it does at any other time. You guys may soon find out who are the true believers and who was just along for the ride.

Avatar
#24 Kent Wilson
November 16 2011, 09:41PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Brent G.

Both good players. Neither truly elite (although Alex was close during his first tour of duty here). Cammalleri barely registers at all...he was here for one season.

Avatar
#25 Kent Wilson
November 16 2011, 09:46PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@RexLibris

Preaching to the choir. I watched the likes of Val Bure, Todd Simpson and Bob Bassen make their way through this town during the late '90s and such. While the Oilers were getting beat up by the Stars in the first round, the Flames considered the playoffs a distant and fading memory.

The current Flames team is chalked full of legitimate NHLers for sure and they aren't the worst team in the league. But the players it pays elite salaries to aren't elite. And at some point they will have to admit that to themselves and move on.

Avatar
#26 FireOnIce
November 16 2011, 10:40PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Regehr used to call out certain, 'un-named', players in the media, and look where that got him. Him and Iginla supposedly tore the locker room apart by both trying to be leaders - again, look where it got Regehr. Though, some might argue Regehr is in a slightly better place now.

Bourque has never really been THAT good. He had a couple of injury plagued seasons in Chicago and they offloaded him onto us. 'Perhaps he has potential and injuries just hampered him' we said. 'Perhaps his concussion is scaring him from playing hard' we said. BS. Rene seems uninterested and lazy most of the time, and it remains to be seen whether Hrudy's public lashing has any lasting effects. One game of half-assed effort, as compared to no effort, means nothing. If he pots another 27 goals and 20 or so assists, trade him. Anywhere.

Avatar
#27 Kevin R
November 16 2011, 11:42PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props
RexLibris wrote:

Yeah, that's more or less what I had argued back in the summer, that the Flames roster was a bargain bin of 3rd liners and also-rans. I'm not saying any of this to be mean, but rather more like a veteran of a different war telling stories of his useless officer corps.

I grew up watching a team that iced David Oliver, Nick Stadjuhar, Dean McAmmond, Mats Lindgren, and Greg Hawgood as headliners. That kind of thing leaves scars no therapist can touch. You guys ever heard of Jiri Dopita? Neither had most of us until Sather brought him in to try him out. He was called the European Mark Messier. Apparently something was lost in translation there, because the Moose he most definitely was not. But he played here because we didn't have anyone better to put in his place.

So when I criticize the Flames roster as being not nearly good enough and that the trade value many fans are placing on Iginla is the value he has in their eyes and their memories, I speak not out of malice. That's about as much sympathy as I can muster for the Flames, and if the Flames do start a blow-it-up rebuild expect more than a few Oiler fans to come in here and unload some of the same comments we got when we started down our path. It probably takes more guts to be a steadfast fan during a rebuild than it does at any other time. You guys may soon find out who are the true believers and who was just along for the ride.

Well, I guess we can look at Selanne & what he does for Anaheim is incredible & well acknowledged by any GM out there. I see Iggy as a young Selanne. One of the most fittest players on the club which tells you this guy will have longevity. He's just not a #1 line, just like Selanne isnt a top line winger. These guys are snipers on the power play & secondary scoring on a very good team. This is no different than what happened to Hagman, just not properly used & the performance just isnt there. But he is worth more than you think to another team. If the return is insignificant, why in the Lord's name would we ever consider trading him. The return must be there.

Avatar
#28 If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin
November 17 2011, 12:55AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props

Wow, a guy scores 27 goals and he`s being labelled a bust! I agree with Dome Beers: Borque has never been the same after his injuries the last couple of years. I remember that before his high-ankle sprain in Keenan`s last year, Borque was one of the best Flames at both ends of the ice, and he wasn`t even playing on a line with LAngkow for a majority of the season.

Quite frankly, he has morphed from a physical, two -way forward, into a opportunistic and inconsistent scorer, that seemingly avoids forceful contact along the boards. Here and there he apparently has bouts of nostalgia and reverts to his previous persona -thus having a good game -but those days are few and far between.

But to say the guy isn`t earning his 3.3 in a league where guys like Olesz, Leino, etc. make more is a joke. He is not a bad contract at this point, although he may very well be in a couple of years as his body deteriorates further. I truly believe he`s one more serious upper-body injury away from being done.

Avatar
#29 Anonymous
November 17 2011, 03:20AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Jeff Lebowski wrote:

Calgary doesn't use the middle of the ice offensively. Since Darryl Sutter took over to today this team has been built to play the game against the boards.

There is very little playmaking talent that has come through Calgary and virtually none has been drafted or developed.

In the skill department there are players who can shoot the puck. It's important and you have to have those kind of guys, the more the better. However what this teams desperately needs is playmaking skill. One or two guys who can hold on to the puck, break down defenses with one on one skills instead of just chipping it down the wall.

Marc Savard was that kind of player. I see some of it in Backlund--he tries to create stuff through the middle of the ice. Hopefully it continues.

The problem is the organization is full of Darryl Sutter third line heavies. Feaster tried to address it this offseason and draft.

Brent's system is the best for the personnel. I look at his Devil's days and they didn't play the same way. He had different players, more skilled with the puck on that team.

My fear is that players like Horak, Byron and Backlund get turned into these low risk dumpers.

You got to let offensive minded players play offense and that means take some risks to make plays.

The league is no longer set up for 2-1 close checking games. You have to be able to create offense in a quick transition high skill game. Calgary plays an archaic style. Sit back, play tight, dump and grind.

It's changing for the better with Feaster's philosophy. However Brent Sutter needs to use the skill and not negate it. That's the difference between last years good stretch and this season. Last year the Flames were making plays and playing with confidence with puck ie not dumping it everytime. This year they are playing afraid to make mistakes.

That's why Hagman, Bourque etc are underachieving.

I agree 100% on all you say above.

Avatar
#30 Kent Wilson
November 17 2011, 08:05AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin

Wow, a guy scores 27 goals and he`s being labelled a bust!

A players value isn't just the goals he puts on the board. It's the goals he costs the club while he's on the ice as well.

That's where Bourque lags.

His team worst -17 last season was fully earned. He had the worst scoring chance differential on the entire team last year at ES. He's back at it again this season - one of the worst possession rates and his chance for/against ration was 32% (!!) In a league where 45% is bad, that is just an abysmal stat.

He was a very effective player once a upon a time. He's become a gross liability in the last two years for whatever reason though.

Avatar
#31 dirk diggler
November 17 2011, 09:21AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Bourque is just another on a long list of overrated overpaid on a long term untradable contract. complain all you want, your stuck with this guy for another what, three , four years. FIRE KING.First thing fire all the lawyers.

Avatar
#32 suba steve
November 17 2011, 10:38AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
dirk diggler wrote:

Bourque is just another on a long list of overrated overpaid on a long term untradable contract. complain all you want, your stuck with this guy for another what, three , four years. FIRE KING.First thing fire all the lawyers.

I'm seeing a lot of calls for King/Feaster/Sutter's heads. What is the opinion of Kent/V.F. etc. on this?

Personally, I'm tried of the Flames swaping coaches. I'd like to give Feaster a chance. King, I guess he hires the GM so has accountability there--so untill it's proven that Feaster was a bad hire, how can you let him go?

Avatar
#33 dirk diggler
November 17 2011, 11:07AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Because he's the one who approve of everything bad Dutter did. All the trades and signings are approve by this idiot.He's a lawyer not a hockey guy.Screwed this franchise for the next five years ,longer if he stays .This franchise is a complete mess,a joke.No short term future,old and untradable bad, long contracts that nobody would take even if they threw in 1st round draft picks. FIRE KING.

Avatar
#34 suba steve
November 17 2011, 11:12AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

How do we know that King did those things? I could hold him accountable for not letting Darryl go sooner, but I don't know that/or believe that he was pulling Darryl's strings. Darryl was a little too confident/full of himself to allow that. At least that's what I think.

Avatar
#35 dirk diggler
November 17 2011, 11:17AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Give your head a shake. He's his boss he hired him. And Darryl had to go to him first. Com on, are you serious?

Avatar
#36 suba steve
November 17 2011, 11:20AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Shook my head, nothing fell out. Still not sure King is pulling the hockey reins.

Avatar
#37 dirk diggler
November 17 2011, 12:01PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

And hows that working for you?

Avatar
#38 Derzie
November 17 2011, 12:34PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

A GM's job is to build and manage a team of people to win hockey games. The job cannot be assessed in a week, a month or a year. Until the Flames are 'Feaster's team' he cannot be judged. Any Dutter decisions were not on Feaster. We all know Dutter listened to no one. Also, all of the odd moves to get rid of bad contracts are still just a bridge to get to the building of Featser's team. GM's need 3 years minimum to have an impact, personnel wise, for a team as far gone as the Flames. If you are a Feaster basher, empty the seats at home games. That's the only leverage you have.

Avatar
#39 the-wolf
November 17 2011, 12:58PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Kent Wilson wrote:

I'm no ardent defender of the organization, but I'm going to have to say there are a number of counter examples to suggest the problem isn't necessarily systemic.

For instance, Mark Giordano, David Moss, Rene Bourque (before he fell off a cliff), Curtis Glencross are all guys who grew into significant NHL contributors to one degree or another as Flames. Huselius had his career seasons in Calgary as did Daymond Langkow.

That's not to say the Flames have been excellent at player procurement and deveelopment over the years or anything...just that the idea that everyone who comes to the Flames fails relative to expectations isn't necessarily accurate.

Good points, perhaps alarge part of it is perception.

Comments are closed for this article.