Anton Babchuk Update

Kent Wilson
July 04 2011 10:46AM

 

 

According to agent Jay Grossman, Anton Babchuk is near to signing a two-yer deal with the Calgary Flames.

I've made my feelings on Babchuk pretty clear in the past. His lone noteworthy skill is his big shoot, which is pretty useful whenever he's in the offensive zone. He's a fairly limited player otherwise, however, and will have to be actively sheltered much the same way he was last year in order to be truly effective. He has never played in a top-four role in the NHL, so the goal should be avoid paying him like a top-four defender.

More analysis when things are made official.

UPDATE - Twitter reports are trickling in indicating the deal has been signed. Still waiting on terms.

UPDATE II - Flames have announced the official terms as $2.5M per year for two years. We'll cover this signing more completely as the week moves along.

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Former Nations Overlord. Current Fn contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#51 Ryan Popilchak
July 04 2011, 01:33PM
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Hey, at least it's not Erhoffian money. I'm OK with the fact he upgrades the PP, but he'll definitely have to be sheltered. I hope Butler is up to playing some good defensive ES minutes.

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#52 Casey
July 04 2011, 01:42PM
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I will take Babchuk @ $2.5M over Barker @ $2.25M any day of the week.

Does that make anyone feel better? :-)

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#53 Dano0049
July 04 2011, 01:45PM
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Looks like our D will look something like this:

1)Bouwmeester-Gio

2)Sarich-Butler

3)Babchuk-Carson/Brodie(depending on training camp and preseason)

PK Bouwmeester-Gio, Sarich-Butler PP Bouwmeester-Gio, Babchuk-Butler/Brodie

Hope Kipper drinks his 5 Hour Energy drink before each of his 70 games.

Karlsson really needs to play 20 games this year. Not 15, maybe 18 but 20 or 23 games for sure. Kipper will need the mental breaks.

I still have hope for this team, but ask me again come the New Year.

Go Flames Go!

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#54 Super_Gio
July 04 2011, 01:45PM
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@Casey

Lol Yes.

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#55 PDumes
July 04 2011, 01:48PM
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Face it. Babchuk was the best option at defense among the UFA's. He's under 30, and can generate some PPG opportunities. Babchuk > McCabe, Hannan and whatever else scraps were out there.

And as Casey pointed out this signing makes Edmonton look even more stupid.

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#56 Palt11
July 04 2011, 02:01PM
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Why are the Flames signing mediocre defenceman? They now have Butler, Carson, Babchuk, and they gave Mikkelssson a qualifying offer cuz hes an RFA. Having depth is a good thing, but when you may want to go after quality over quantity.

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#57 Casey
July 04 2011, 02:08PM
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PDumes wrote:

Face it. Babchuk was the best option at defense among the UFA's. He's under 30, and can generate some PPG opportunities. Babchuk > McCabe, Hannan and whatever else scraps were out there.

And as Casey pointed out this signing makes Edmonton look even more stupid.

Not sure I would agree that Babchuk is "better" than McCabe. But he certainly is going to cost a lot less money, and he is only signed for 2 years.

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#59 dotfras
July 04 2011, 02:08PM
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Can't complain about this one guys, low cap hit (compared to other signings around the league) & short term.

Babchuk is a 5D, PP specialist. Flames play him in this role all year & he's fine. Much rather us pay for a guy to score goals on the PP than sign a guy that only knows how to fight.

I think we are gonna be hard pressed all year against the heavier teams, but I think we're headed in the right direction. Feaster may not be Ken Holland, but he's a heck of a lot better than Daryl Sutter.

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#60 Rain dogs
July 04 2011, 02:16PM
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Now, let's talk about the prospect of Regehr being traded being a great 'salary dump'. Well, 2.5 million of Reggie's 4.0million is now into the specialist Anton Babchuk.

That leaves us with 1.5 million. Take away 700k (like Mikkelson) for a 6th pairing and you're at 800k.

So are the Flames better with Babchuk and a 6th/7th slot? Or Regehr? That's easy. Salary dumps need to consider the replacement parts.

Flames D in 2009 Regehr-Jbo Phaneuf-Gio Sarich-Pardy

Flames D Today Jbo-Gio Babchuk-Sarich Butler-Carson

Brutal Feaster. Another Brutal move.

Regehr (4.0m) > Babchuk + Sarich (5.2m).

Sutter screwed up Phaneuf (6.5) > Sarich + Staios (6.3).

We've gone from punishing D to soft D. Gio in a top pairing is scary. Sarich in a top four is scary. Babchuk in a top four is scary.

Miikka better invest in a time machine, or get better quick.

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#61 Casey
July 04 2011, 02:33PM
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vickihallch: Babchuk has modified no-move clause. Can't be dealt until the 2013 trade deadline.

LOL. Let the melodrama begin.

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#62 Derzie
July 04 2011, 02:43PM
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Complain, complain, complain. Babchuk is a good signing. Sensible under the new cap. Excellent plus/minus. Showed good heart in the 2nd half. Not too old. At least PDumes is talking sense. No more overpaid geezers. The gamble to shed Reggie to get enough cap to go after Brad Richards backfired. I'd hoped Connolly was next in line but the Leafs grabbed him. If Morrison is healthy, grab him. Not much left out there unless you go the offer sheet route. That would be dumb since we need to keep picks.

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#63 Canucks Suck
July 04 2011, 02:48PM
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Maybe our PP will come out flying too instead of sitting in the basement for the first half of the season.

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#64 Flipnip
July 04 2011, 02:54PM
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I know that the stats show that he was heavily sheltered last year but if you look at his point totals, between Car/Cal, he had 35 points and was a plus 14. If we look at Giordano, in the same number of games he was 43 points but minus 8 (granted he was against tougher competition)yet most fans thought that Giordano did alright last year. I like this signing as he gives us the hard point shot that seems to actually get through to the goalie and I can live with some of his defensive shortcomings. I think the Flames are no longer wanting a slow, hard hitting defense but rather a shot-blocking, quick transition defense and I think that is why they are auditioning Clay Wilson to see what he offers and also bringing up Brodie this year.

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#65 ALL THE WAY IN
July 04 2011, 02:57PM
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Giving up a second rounder in the Regehr trade was absolutly dumb. That handcuffed us to the possibility of making an offer to Parise or Stamkos. After this coming season the Flames have Lankow at 4.5, Hagman at 3, Olli at 3 and Sarich at 3.4 all coming off the books. Aside from Sharp and Hemsky that FA pool is pretty shallow as well. Now would have been the time to move on Parise...

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#66 gussey
July 04 2011, 02:59PM
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I might be in the minority but I really like this signing. 11 goals (I think was his stat) from a dman is pretty good and most people thought he would demand 4 mil on the open market. I think he improved a lot under sutter and is young enough to keep improving. Better than paying adam pardy 2 mil per and I don't see anyone on the open market that is a better fit for this team. Either way its not an earth shattering deal, short term, lower cash, low risk. I would of made this signing if I was feaster.

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#67 Tach
July 04 2011, 03:24PM
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Hmm, last year we were the 4th best team in the league at shots against per game at 28.5. Given the look of our new defensive core, any predictions on what that number will look like next season?

Kipper better earn some of his money next year or this could get ugly fast.

The Flames' lineup as of today is:

Tanguay - Backlund - Iginla Glencross - Langkow - Bourque Hagman - Jokinen - Moss Kostopoulos - Stajan - Jackman (FML - Ivanans?)

Bouwmeester - Giordano Sarich - Butler Babchuk - Brodie? Mikkelson? Carson?

Kiprusoff Karlsson

October 8 - home to Pittsburgh to open the season. I can't say I am counting down the days, can you?

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#68 Nolan Moore
July 04 2011, 03:25PM
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Ok so feaster says no more NMC/NTC, yet he's 3 for 3?

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#69 JF
July 04 2011, 03:29PM
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@Rain dogs

"need to consider the replacement parts"

Pot meet kettle. the 2.5M does not come out of Regher's 4M because we had Babchuk on payroll before... he accounts for only the difference between his old contract and new.

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#70 SinCity1976
July 04 2011, 03:30PM
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I am okay with the signing. Only 2-seasons and at a reasonable cap hit. I was worried he was going to get a long term contract or 3-million +.

The D got a whole lot more mobile but a whole lot less physical, especially with Sarich on the last season of his contract. I hope that they can fill the number 4 spot with a rotation or Brodie, Butler, Carson, and Babchuk.

They should have 4 or even 5 million to add to D next season which should give us a decent, if not great, core.

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#71 Greg
July 04 2011, 03:32PM
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Jeepers, glad the comments have mellowed out towards the end of this discussion. Does this address our need for a top 4 dman? No. But we did need another defenceman and look at the other options. Would you rather lock up 4-5.5 million for the next 4 or 5 years on kaberle? Or maybe give a 2-3 year term to a plus-35 McCabe? It's a two year contract, and I thought for sure Babchuk would get over $3M and several years. Its not a perfect solution, but For what he provides it's another decent value contract relative to what the market was this summer. It's duct-taping a hole, but it doesn't add more contract issues for the future.

Seriously, if you are going to complain about it, offer a better solution. I don't think there was one out there. And doing nothing would leave you icing at least 3 defencemen every night who had never made it through a full NHL season.

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#72 Greg
July 04 2011, 03:40PM
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@JF

Also, Babchuk isn't the replacement part. Butler is, and that did save us $2.75M. Babchuk or someone else had to be signed regardless.

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#73 Kevin R
July 04 2011, 03:54PM
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@Greg

Totally agree bud. It's frustrating to see the direction this thing is heading but anyone who didnt see it coming are delusional. The $$$ are a little high for my liking,but it was more important about only being a 2 year term. I like the fact we are going to let Brodie, Butler & Carson prove they are top 4 d material. Chances are Sarich is shipped out as a rental to a contender at the end of next Feb. This young of a D is going to force Brent into playing Karlson the 20-25 games & we'll see if he is number 1 goalie material. If he is, Kipper's NMC is expires the end of this year & his salary versus cap hit drops significantly as well, and as a goalie, there is value to be had, so could get interesting.

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#74 druds
July 04 2011, 03:58PM
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PDumes wrote:

Face it. Babchuk was the best option at defense among the UFA's. He's under 30, and can generate some PPG opportunities. Babchuk > McCabe, Hannan and whatever else scraps were out there.

And as Casey pointed out this signing makes Edmonton look even more stupid.

How does this make the Oilers stupid? They get a former first rounder for cheaper pay...its only one year deal and we can get rid of him as opposed to a NTC on Babchuk who is at best a career 5-6 defenceman...who exactly is stupid?

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#76 loudogYYC
July 04 2011, 04:10PM
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Is it just me or is there a serious lack of talent in the NHL?

The Flames just signed probably their best/most logical option on Defense for $2.5M yet there are still lots of teams with tons of cap space and no real good players to cash in.

There are some stacked teams in the league but the drop off after that is something I don't remember seeing in a while.

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#78 Tach
July 04 2011, 04:20PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Teams are tying up guys longer and longer term these days. And quality kids are rarely hitting the market after their ELC's.

A lot of people thought the new CBA would cause tons of movement and uncertainty, but GM's have gone the other way: with huge, long-terms for anyone of any value.

Jeff Carter and Mike Richards would like to have a conversation with you about whether "long-term deals" correlate with "less movement".

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#79 loudogYYC
July 04 2011, 04:21PM
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@Kent

So basically most players of value, and some not so valuable, are all locked up and off the market leaving the talent pool pretty bare.

Do you think the KHL plays a role here or what do you attribute the imbalance to?

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#80 Tach
July 04 2011, 04:24PM
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Kent,

Can I also assume that the first 43 minutes of the development camp has been extraordinarily rivetting?

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#82 rain dogs
July 04 2011, 04:47PM
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@JF

Sure, you can look at it that way if you like, but I think it's better to look at assets and asset management.

The only true salary "dump" was Staios. But if someone MOVES into another guys roster hole, you're STILL paying that money for that roster spot.

If you think Jbo, Gio, Cory, Babs, Butler and Carson at 18.6mil. for 6 defenders

is better than

Jbo, Reggie, Gio, Cory, Babs and Pardy at 16.7million,

then we see talent/value differently.

Of course, keeping Gio and Reggie with Gio's raise would have increased that number by 3 million dollars. BUT that's my point:

We could have kept Reggie, NOT resigned Babchuk, lost Staios, and promoted a youth in Pardy's spot, and been only about 1 million more invested in top 6 "D"... sufficiently covered by the cap increase with room to spare when you consider Staois' overpay for the 7th man.

Instead we lost our best defenseman and overpaid for a hard shot, haven't turned our best "d" asset into draft picks, haven't saved much/any money. AND we had to give up a second rounder as well. FAIL.

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#83 otto
July 04 2011, 04:47PM
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Hmmm,not the Anton I wanted.I thought Stralman would be a better fit.

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#84 rain dogs
July 04 2011, 04:58PM
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@rain dogs

sorry.

That should be 16.8 with Carson at 500k last year.

Or 17.0 with Pardy. But, injury time may have messed those numbers up a bit. And I'm not sure why Cap Geek has Gio's hit at 891k not 1.07.

even at 17.5 million, the point still stands. we're paying MORE this year for LESS talent than we had last year, and less draft picks (-2nd rounder).

That's the opposite of what George McPhee is doing.

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#85 Tach
July 04 2011, 05:25PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Well, we're still seeing big time trades now and then, just pathetically thin UFA markets as well.

As for development camp, I skipped today's proceedings because I had a bunch of stuff to do and this Babchuk thing dropped. I'll check it out tomorrow though.

I will agree the UFA markets seem thinner compared to some of at least how I remember some of those pre-cap era summers, but that may just be perception.

Assuming these UFA classes are thinner - I guess two things come to mind

A) What feature of the CBA causes this particular alignment? While the "tails" in the long term deals is one answer, it also seems that teams are locking up potential free agents before they hit the market/players are not going to market as often. I think this is because with the cap, the variability in pay is less so stability means more?

B) As a fan - is this better or worse? One of the complaints that I remember being levelled at the last CBA was that teams could not hold onto their free agents as they would get "bought out" by the expensive teams. While more fringe type players are moving (see Blackhawks, Chicago) it now seems more teams are keeping their core together. If you core is good and young, seems good. I suspect more fans will have more frustration as their cores get older and less good. (See Flames, Calgary)

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#87 JF
July 04 2011, 06:34PM
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@rain dogs

Oh no, I absolutely agree The D with Reggie is better then the the D without (I don't know how much better though, unlike baseball it's hard to quantify hockey players since as far as I know we don't have something akin to W.A.R.)... I'm just taking issue with you not accounting for the amount of money Babchuk made last year in that calculation. I'd hold off fully evaluating the trade until we see what Feaster does with the remainder of the cap space (if anything).

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#89 MC Hockey
July 04 2011, 08:21PM
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I think all the naysayers are nuts on here. NUTS as Feaster paid BELOW market value! Check the stats and I question Zone Start at bottom. Why don't we do look at the most comparable recent offensive D-man signings, eh?

1. Ian White (Det) - $2.875M/year is not bad $ but he's not HUGE (size cannot be taught)nor a shot blocker like Babchuk. Best season was 38 pts and +8 with Leafs/Flames, last year 26 pts and +3 with 3 teams. 2. Cam Barker (Edm) - $2.25M/year is risky for concussed guy with only 5pts and -10 in 52 games last year, best year 40 pts in only 68GP and -6. So versus Babchuk is NOT better defensively. 3. Sheldon Souray (Dal) - do I really need to do this for this guy? Babchuk any day....but salary of 1.65M is lower risk for Dallas than Barker in Edm at 2.25. 4. Roman Hamrlik (Was) - $3.5M/year - best year 65 pts and -24 back in 1995-96. He is 35 years old and only 34 pts and +6 last year. Not as good as Babs. 5. Ed Jovanovski (Fla) - $4.125M/year for FOUR years and he is 35 now. Best year 48 pts and -7 way back in Van in 2001-02. Can you say overpay and too long?? 6. Andy Greene (NJ) - $3M/yr for 4 years. Last year 23 pts and -23 on bad team. Best year 37 pts and +9 and older than Babchuk. 7. James Wisniewski - $5.5M/yeaf for 6 years. Best year was last year with 51 pts with NYI/?Mtl but was -14. 8. Christian Ehrhoff (Buf) - $ Best year was last year with 50 pts and +19 but on best REGULAR SEASON team in league. In playoffs had 12 pts but minus 13 in 23GP. And 1 year older than Babchuk. 9. Kevin Bieksa (Van) - injury prone, last 4 years played 66, 55, 72, and 34 regular-season games. Last year 22 pts in 66GP and +32 on best reg season team. Good player but peo0ple forget he gets injured often. 10. MA Bergeron (TB) - $1M/year for 2 years. He is 3 years older than Babchuk (30).Last year only played 23 reg season games as nobody would chance him till January and had 8 pts and -10. Playoffs 3 pts in 14 GP and -2.

BABCHUK: 2 years at 2.5M each. Last year 35 pts and +14 in Car/Cgy so not terrible on D even if "protected". Does that Zone Start statistic note that most Powerplay zone starts are obviously in the offenseive zone...I think NOT! Previous NHL year also had 35 pts in Carolina (2008-09) and then 22 pts and +17 in 49GP in KHL (2009-10) which is not known for letting D-man move up into play. Other things: 102MPH slap shot and 6 foot 5 D-men who skate well are NOT easy to find. FEASTER AND FLAMES WIN!!

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#90 rubbertrout
July 04 2011, 08:46PM
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Nolan Moore wrote:

Ok so feaster says no more NMC/NTC, yet he's 3 for 3?

I wonder if any of the folks that said I was an idiot a few weeks back for saying that giving a NMC to Glencross was a harbinger of bad things to come still feel the same way?

Once you give a NMC to a 3rd/4th liner (albeit a very good one) you make it so everyone else will want one. I don't care that some of these are just "modified" NTCs. Any GM that lets that many of his players limit where they go is not doing a good job. Sutter messed up by doing this and Feaster appears to be doing more of the same.

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#91 MC Hockey
July 04 2011, 08:55PM
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Thansk Kent. I can be overly emphatic at times (re Zone Start) but I hope my 10 comparables make sense. Looking at "the market" of recent offensive-D-man signings, I still think Babchuk is underpaid at 2.5M

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#92 CitizenFlame
July 04 2011, 09:16PM
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rain dogs wrote:

Sure, you can look at it that way if you like, but I think it's better to look at assets and asset management.

The only true salary "dump" was Staios. But if someone MOVES into another guys roster hole, you're STILL paying that money for that roster spot.

If you think Jbo, Gio, Cory, Babs, Butler and Carson at 18.6mil. for 6 defenders

is better than

Jbo, Reggie, Gio, Cory, Babs and Pardy at 16.7million,

then we see talent/value differently.

Of course, keeping Gio and Reggie with Gio's raise would have increased that number by 3 million dollars. BUT that's my point:

We could have kept Reggie, NOT resigned Babchuk, lost Staios, and promoted a youth in Pardy's spot, and been only about 1 million more invested in top 6 "D"... sufficiently covered by the cap increase with room to spare when you consider Staois' overpay for the 7th man.

Instead we lost our best defenseman and overpaid for a hard shot, haven't turned our best "d" asset into draft picks, haven't saved much/any money. AND we had to give up a second rounder as well. FAIL.

Nice to see you giving this trade a chance, as you've given it a fail 3 months before the season starts. Why not see what the 24 year old Butler can do in the Flaming C before completely writing the trade off.

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#93 Nolan Moore
July 04 2011, 09:19PM
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The Flames are back around 10+ NTC/NMC on the team. They're handing these out like candy. How many other teams out there have more than 3 or 4 on their team. They cant' keep giving these out. Feaster must grow a pair and say NO! What are they going to do now, give a guy a 2 way contract with a NTC? Man I have some words I just can't say on this site.

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#94 jr_christ
July 04 2011, 09:31PM
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Haha I would take barker in a heart beat. Why is it that the only way flames can sign a player is to offer a NYC or NMR?

Seriously your organization is in serious trouble. You have zero prospects... Well I guess you have Erixon. Right?

Calgary has the worst contracts in the NHL... No questions asked. I hope you guys arevready for the oilers to kick your butts. We finish dead last and we still love our team. You miss the playoffsbtwice and all I hear now is how much people hate the flames now.

Haha I love watching your pathetic team suffer. Hope iffy brings his A game... You guys are dead!!

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#95 MC Hockey
July 04 2011, 09:35PM
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jr_christ wrote:

Haha I would take barker in a heart beat. Why is it that the only way flames can sign a player is to offer a NYC or NMR?

Seriously your organization is in serious trouble. You have zero prospects... Well I guess you have Erixon. Right?

Calgary has the worst contracts in the NHL... No questions asked. I hope you guys arevready for the oilers to kick your butts. We finish dead last and we still love our team. You miss the playoffsbtwice and all I hear now is how much people hate the flames now.

Haha I love watching your pathetic team suffer. Hope iffy brings his A game... You guys are dead!!

As usual, Oiler fans back up their comments with lots of FACTS. Good job jr_christ....you show us why the good jobs (for intelligent people) are in Calgary and the slugs work for us in Edmonton. Maybe Sarich takes Barker's head off in first match-up and Barky's concussion comes back.

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#96 jr_christ
July 04 2011, 09:52PM
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@MC Hockey

No problem. We'll let hordichuck take care of bourque and Eager absolutely crush Iggles.

I have more facts about my hockey team than you do.... Believe me. Win a second cup or keep your mouth shut.

I actually live in Calgary but am from Penticton. One thing for sure is people in BC have a he'll of a lot more respect for Edmonton than Cowville. No one likes you...haha love it.

Oilers 5 flames 1... Book it cow girls.

Hey you all excited for "the greatest outdoor show on earth". Pathetic. Maybe you can build your rides properly so people don't end up in the hospital again.

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#97 Flamesblow
July 04 2011, 09:53PM
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dotfras wrote:

As far as Feaster & NTC / NMC, the guy got Regehr to go to freaking Buffalo, don't think its huge issue. I would imagine that throwing in a clause on the contract lends to bargaining on $ with the player.

Wrentit serios???? He us over paid 1.5 millionnper season!!!

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#99 Jr_christ
July 04 2011, 10:05PM
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MC Hockey wrote:

Again, thanks for the "facts" jr_christ. You're so convincing. Now go to bed, I need you to work 12 hours tomorrow.

Haha... Yeah I do work 12 hour days. However, I also have a corner office in eau Claire with a view of prince's park. So I wouldn't bother trying to convince yourself you have a better job than me... Believe me... You don't.

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#100 Jr_christ
July 04 2011, 10:08PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Barker is terrible.

Haha I can see why Wayne have you a job onnhere. Another excellent article by the pathetic king Wilson...

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