Postgame: Milking

Nation World HQ
February 23 2012 10:32PM

Even with the Calgary Flames being outshot and outchanced on Thursday night at home to the Phoenix Coyotes, they still managed to score a late powerplay goal and gain another point before falling 4-3 in a shootout.  Despite the ice spending far too much time tilted in the direction of the opposition of late, Calgary is still getting points out of games thanks in large part to the play of Miikka Kiprusoff.  They finish Thursday night tied with Dallas and LA for the final playoff spot in the Western Conference.

What Happened

Things started in a good fashion for the Flames, as Mike Smith decided to help his opponents out.  The Phoenix goaltender made an odd decision to come out and play the puck in front of him, giving it directly to Alex Tanguay.  As he tried to slide a pass across to Mike Cammalleri, the puck would take an odd deflection off a Phoenix defender right into the net for a 1-0 lead at 8:35.  Calgary's second goal came at 15:38 when Tanguay found Matt Stajan in the high slot.  Funny enough, Stajan would fire a shot with a ton of confidence, going top corner on Smith for his second of the season and a big two goal lead after 20.

A familiar foe would get Phoenix on the board at 1:32 in transition, with Ray Whitney using some nice vision to find a trailing Daymond Langkow in the high slot for his eighth of the season.  With a couple posts in between the Coyotes would tie it at 17:08 right as a Jay Bouwmeester penalty expired.  As Blake Comeau had a chance to clear the zone, he'd instead throw it right to Keith Yandle.  A pass across to Oliver Ekman-Larsson turned into a tipped point shot by Shane Doan and his 19th of the season tied the game.  The Yotes were better in the second and had things all even heading to the third.

A bizarre play midway through the final frame gave Phoenix their first lead, as Scott Hannan would blow a tire inside his own blueline allowing Ray Whitney to move in uncontested.  With that much space, even a red hot Kiprusoff wasn't making that stop, as Whitney would undress on his way to his 17th of the season at 10:27.  But it was Kiprusoff who kept this game within one as the period rolled on making two quality saves setting up the tying goal in the dying minutes.  With Radim Vrbata taking a seat for interference, Olli Jokinen would bang home his 19th at the side of the net at 18:14 for a powerplay tying goal sending this thing to extra time.  Regulation scoring chances finished 16-12 Phoenix, including 16-9 at even strength.

Overtime solved nothing setting up another shootout for both teams, as they both like to enter "flip a coin" mode.  With Smith stopping Jokinen, Tanguay, and Jarome Iginla in order all the Coyotes would need is a Ray Whitney shot to take a deserved two points.

One Good Reason...

...why the Flames lost?  Well, once again, anytime you go to a shootout, it's because the coin didn't flip your way.  But in reality, the reason they needed to fight back and tie this one is because they displayed next to no traits of how to play with a two goal lead.  The puck bounced Calgary's way in the first period and instead of clamping down, the Flames had next to no push back as the Coyotes fought from behind.  They were soft on the puck and made bad decisions for the balance, so to call a spade a spade, they were fortunate to get a point.  In fact, Brent Sutter was emphatic post game that Calgary was fortunate to get points in any of their last four games, so even he knows the team is flirting with the bottom falling out.

Red Warrior

Lance Bouma.  The guy did a great job against Phoenix depth today and was confident time and time again in moving the puck to the scoring areas.  He's never going to do that against the best of the best, but having a guy with the ability and desire to move the puck from the perimiter against opposing depth is a value.  Many compare him to Brandon Prust for a reason and we're starting to see a similar career path taken.

Sum It Up

To a man, the Flames were very unhappy with how they played in this one.  It was a better game than the Edmonton affair, no question, but they still had a two goal lead and let it slip.  Calgary needed last minute heroics just to earn a point in this one, yet even playing unsustainable hockey, the Flames still sit tied for eighth in the conference.  Now it's the Flyers on Saturday night.

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We are the people that keep this whole circus running. We get no love but get to see Wanye freak out about stuff in person which is kind of a trade off.
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#1 RexLibris
February 23 2012, 10:48PM
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On the bright side, a 3 pt game between the Flames and Coyotes also screws over the other teams in the race.

Just trying to offer some good news.

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#2 Kent Wilson
February 23 2012, 10:48PM
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Nice pick for the RW. Bouma had good game for sure. Stajan wasn't too bad either actually.

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#3 Franko J
February 23 2012, 10:51PM
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At this time of the year you would expect that a team in the middle of a playoff race would show more urgency, desperation, and passion to win games.

Right now what I see from the Flames is a team which injuries have caught up to this team; the top players are being out played, out hustled and out skated; and no offense to Lance Bouma but when a fringe NHLer is your best player on your team something has to give.

Not every player is pulling their weight and it is showing now for the past four games. Again there is too much complancency and easy satisfaction from the core leaders on this team.

With the way that there are teams in the NHL in desperation mode and are overspending for mediocre and sub par players, Feaster should be considering any or all offers for any player on this roster right now. This team can't handle the pressure. Who is willing to step up outside of Kipper on this team and take it to the next level?

Feaster - SELL !!!! SELL !!! SELL !!!

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#4 schevvy
February 23 2012, 10:55PM
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@Franko J

How can the Flames sell? If you consider tradong Hannan or Sarich selling then I guess I could see it but with all these injuries to players that could be "trade bait", what do you do? Poor Feaster is stuck in between a rock and a hard place right now. He can't really do much.

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#5 SmellOfVictory
February 23 2012, 10:57PM
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Speaking of "flip a coin" in shootouts, did you see Radim Vrbata's ridiculous shootout percentage? The guy's flirting with almost 50% over a fairly substantial number of attempts.

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#6 RexLibris
February 23 2012, 11:03PM
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If the Flames sell their UFAs now all they'll do is likely sink into the 7-10 range at the draft. Hardly worth it and very disrespectful to fans after you've made a public display of "going for it".

I'm very interested in what Feaster does now, because he has to at least be seen to be doing something to improve the team.

He doesn't need to actually make huge changes, because he'll probably just say that the injured players returning are like trade deadline acquisitions without any cost to the team. But for the public he'll at least need to be seen to add one piece unless he wants to stand in front of the cameras and say with a straight face that he believes this group is good enough to win playoff rounds when their play hasn't been consistent enough in the regular season.

I have to agree with Franko that if Bouma is your best worker bee in this kind of playoff-atmosphere game, then something seems amiss.

Good luck against Philly. There's at least a chance that Hartnell will sit a game for an intent-to-injure kneeing. Maybe you could leave a copy of this book for Bryzgalov and see if it distracts him: http://www.amazon.com/Elegant-Universe-Superstrings-Dimensions-Ultimate/dp/0375708111

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#7 Franko J
February 23 2012, 11:03PM
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@ schevvy

I agree, how can you make trades if you have only players who are damaged goods to trade with.

I'm just disappointed with the response from this team from the Edmonton game. I thought the leadership from this team should have shown more effort and urgency.

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#8 RexLibris
February 23 2012, 11:04PM
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@SmellOfVictory

So is Horcoff.

"We are through the looking glass here people!"

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#9 SmellOfVictory
February 23 2012, 11:08PM
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RexLibris wrote:

If the Flames sell their UFAs now all they'll do is likely sink into the 7-10 range at the draft. Hardly worth it and very disrespectful to fans after you've made a public display of "going for it".

I'm very interested in what Feaster does now, because he has to at least be seen to be doing something to improve the team.

He doesn't need to actually make huge changes, because he'll probably just say that the injured players returning are like trade deadline acquisitions without any cost to the team. But for the public he'll at least need to be seen to add one piece unless he wants to stand in front of the cameras and say with a straight face that he believes this group is good enough to win playoff rounds when their play hasn't been consistent enough in the regular season.

I have to agree with Franko that if Bouma is your best worker bee in this kind of playoff-atmosphere game, then something seems amiss.

Good luck against Philly. There's at least a chance that Hartnell will sit a game for an intent-to-injure kneeing. Maybe you could leave a copy of this book for Bryzgalov and see if it distracts him: http://www.amazon.com/Elegant-Universe-Superstrings-Dimensions-Ultimate/dp/0375708111

They made a show of it, he acquired numerous players throughout the season, and the team is playing like garbage. Feaster selling off vets isn't an insult the fans, it is, to use his terminology, intellectual honesty. This is a team that currently has one difference-making player, and that player is in net. Given Kipper's lack of a scoring touch, the best the Flames have been able to do is limp along and get a large number of undeserved loser points/wins thanks to Gandalf as a goaltender.

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#10 Franko J
February 23 2012, 11:08PM
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@ RexLibris

Feaster should have been standing in front of the cameras at the beginning of the year and at the time saying that this team is not good enough to begin with.

I'm just wondering what he is going to say at the end of this season. I'm just thinking how much back peddling he will have to make over his previous (earlier in the year) comments about this team.

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#11 RKD
February 23 2012, 11:09PM
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They had a good first period, but it was all Phoenix after that. The Coyotes hit 3 posts before finally scoring, it was only a matter of time.

You know this team is in trouble when Lance Bouma and Matt Stajan are your best players. That's pathetic.

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#12 T&A4Flames
February 23 2012, 11:13PM
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Jokinen & Sarich for Frolik & a 1st

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#13 loudogYYC
February 23 2012, 11:13PM
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@schevvy

Agreed. I'd hate to be in Feasters position cuz he can't move either way with a ton of conviction. This team is so stuck in the middle it's not even funny.

The one thing that seems clear to me, is that the Flames can't handle themselves well without adversity. They fight all season long to make points, they lose 200+ man games to injuries and they finally make it to 8th place. Great!

The problem is once they're there, they crap the bed and slip back into the position they fought so hard to get out of. The 09-10 Flames were probably the most talented team on paper of the past 20 years, 3 of the top 20 defensemen and some good firepower up front. Everything was great until they hit the ice and they ended up digging themselves into a hole they haven't gotten out of since!

For that, Feaster should just approach deadline day ready to trade Sarich, Hannan and maybe even Jackman. He can stockpile some prospects and picks and he puts the team back into the situation they thrive in!

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#14 Kevin R
February 23 2012, 11:19PM
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Had to sit through two of these games now. Phoenix could have easily been had tonight. So much for the good schedule & all the home games, they played with more urgency on the road. We had no points of that game where we controlled play in the Phoenix zone and cycled the puck & created scoring chances. Was it me or did Iggy play very much because he was mostly invisible. Sorry it has to be what have you done for me lately, because you cant criticize the record the lucked out to get in Feb. But right now, we started our home stand which was supposed to be our advantage & we have 1 out of 4 points. Heard Feasters comments, I hope he is serious. We lose to Philly Saturday & I would like to see sell sell sell.

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#15 schevvy
February 23 2012, 11:24PM
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Maybe it is just me, but I don't view this game as negatively as others. I didn't think the Flames were that bad, the Coyotes played a very opportunistic game. 3 turnovers led to the 3 Coyotes goals, so they took advantage of the chances they got. Neither team had many tremendous scoring chances, and quite frankly, with all these injuries, these are the types of games they're going to play until the injured players return and get their game going.

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#16 T&A4Flames
February 23 2012, 11:30PM
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@schevvy

Maybe they go on a run post trade deadline but can we take that chance. We should make moves and hope for the best when our injured players return. At least we've covered one end of things; part of the future.

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#17 everton fc
February 24 2012, 06:18AM
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Trouble is... as all here have somewhat alluded to... We have no one to trade.

You move Sarich or Hannan and a d-man goes down... We're hooped.

Those we wish to move - Babchuk, Stajan... There's no interest in.

Sarich for Frolik - where does Frolik play? And again... what if a d-man goes down...?

I wonder how we'll do once Moss gets back. He's a winner, in my opinion. But his return's still weeks away...

Moving Jokinen - the guy has arguably been our second best player behind Kiprusoff. Sure, he has value, but that value may be best kept here.

We have no killer instinct. We need players that play to win every shift. I still say a guy like Gaustad would fit in nicely here. Another Bouma would help (Dorsett in Columbus, for example, who can also score a few goals)... I love Jackman's game, but he can't score. It is what it is...

But what we really need - and elite first line centre... Another proven defender... We have no bait to lure a GM into one of these deals.

If you can get Frolik for Sarich, I guess you do it.

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#18 John Deere Green
February 24 2012, 07:00AM
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What kind of revealing pictures does Jarome Iginla have of Flames management and loyal Flames fans? He has been nothing more than hot garbage for the last while and nothing is made of it. He's the team's captain! He should lead by example, not drag the team down with him. Same old Iginla, different year, same results.

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#19 suba steve
February 24 2012, 07:12AM
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Prediction: Flames are outplayed/outshot by a wide margin and lose in overtime on Saturday, giving them 1 more point and keeping them in the "playoff race"(or they just lose outright, as do at least one of Dallas or Phoenix). Feaster neither buyes nor sells at the deadline. They continue in their inept/inconsistent ways, following their glorious and untouchable "leader" into a 10th place finish. Some players "lead" to the Cup, others "lead" to narrowly missing the playoffs. Net result: no playoffs, no asset dump, another year older. I have advocated trading Iginla for over a year now, and while I still think he is one of our more valuable assets, I find myself wondering what right minded GM would want him at this point at the price we would be asking? Who am I kidding, there is at least one other GM out there with his head up his butt! That being the case, are the extra revenues on Iginla sweaters really worth keeping this asset until it/he has no value?

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#20 Brent G.
February 24 2012, 07:18AM
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Kevin R wrote:

Had to sit through two of these games now. Phoenix could have easily been had tonight. So much for the good schedule & all the home games, they played with more urgency on the road. We had no points of that game where we controlled play in the Phoenix zone and cycled the puck & created scoring chances. Was it me or did Iggy play very much because he was mostly invisible. Sorry it has to be what have you done for me lately, because you cant criticize the record the lucked out to get in Feb. But right now, we started our home stand which was supposed to be our advantage & we have 1 out of 4 points. Heard Feasters comments, I hope he is serious. We lose to Philly Saturday & I would like to see sell sell sell.

I never heard Feasters comments, what did he say?

EDIT: I just saw the video. Hope Feaster is honest in what he said. Side note, anyone else see the resemblance of Feaster and the principal from Billy Maddison lol?

http://gigglingwithgifs.tumblr.com/post/8218765686

Haha classic!

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#21 Dave
February 24 2012, 07:22AM
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I'm glad carter got traded to the kings. I was against bringing him here and now he won't. When I look at the teams tied with the flames It seems that Dallas, LA, and maybe Colorado are better teams. I honestly think the flames will end up in 10th. They just don't have the same compete level every game.

I would like to see Feaster make minor changes. In my opinion it might be wiser to wait until free agency or the draft once we actually have pieces to negotiate with. Also management should have a clearer picture of what this team is capable of, 10th place year after year.

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#22 Dave
February 24 2012, 07:56AM
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I just saw feasters comments. He definitely knows how to say the right things. It gave me the impression that he would focus on trading the vets if they loose on saturday, maybe olie. I think I would be ok with that ( mostly cause I don't want to resign him for more than he's worth which could easily happen if he stays here).

It's been said lots here but I do think it would be worth it to get Frolik for the right price.

I do still think that unless great deals come up they might be better off selling at free agency or the draft. They will have more wiggle room cap wise.

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#23 Subversive
February 24 2012, 08:02AM
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There's no way Feaster sells now, based on what happens Saturday night, even if they get blown out. They are way too close for him to give up on the playoffs without looking terrible. The only thing to do at this point is sit back, hold on, and hope the Flames can find a way to keep winning.

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#24 Bean-counting cowboy
February 24 2012, 08:36AM
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Feaster's comments were a combination of some bad games strung together plus coming in 2nd (again) in a trade for that #1 center. My bet is Calgary was the other team in on Carter & lost out - so Feaster was pissed before the game even started.

Why not trade Sarich, Hannan & Jokinen?

I agree with T&A4Flames - Jokinen would be a great fit in Chicago alonside Hossa. They need a # 2 centreman - I'd bet you get a 1st. Tell Jokinen on his way out that you really want him back in the off-season, but also want to help the team long-term & see if he'll sign with you next year.

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#25 C-fan in Vic
February 24 2012, 09:21AM
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New to posting here but a veteran observer-

Did anyone else notice the Flames falling all over the ice, from the start of this one till the finish? I really didn't notice it from Phoenix, and I'm not just talking the Hannan bobble. It was getting ridiculous, I would have thought that bad ice would effect both sides but the Flames were dropping like flies.

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#26 T&A4Flames
February 24 2012, 09:46AM
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C-fan in Vic wrote:

New to posting here but a veteran observer-

Did anyone else notice the Flames falling all over the ice, from the start of this one till the finish? I really didn't notice it from Phoenix, and I'm not just talking the Hannan bobble. It was getting ridiculous, I would have thought that bad ice would effect both sides but the Flames were dropping like flies.

Yep, I saw that as well. It was a lot more noticable after the Hannan face plant.

Has it not been 3 games in a tow now that that or something similar has happened? Sarich fell a couple of games ago not to mention the oops the other night against Edmonton when he just let the puck go around his stick leading to a 2 on 1. Just brutal!

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#27 T&A4Flames
February 24 2012, 09:52AM
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Subversive wrote:

There's no way Feaster sells now, based on what happens Saturday night, even if they get blown out. They are way too close for him to give up on the playoffs without looking terrible. The only thing to do at this point is sit back, hold on, and hope the Flames can find a way to keep winning.

I think Feaster has set himself up to look terrible if he DOESN'T do something on Monday. With his comments last night, he would very foolish if he stands pat. The only out is IF CGY wins convincingly on Sat. I see Jokinen being moved & quite possibly Hannan or Sarich... maybe both.

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#28 the-wolf
February 24 2012, 09:56AM
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John Deere Green wrote:

What kind of revealing pictures does Jarome Iginla have of Flames management and loyal Flames fans? He has been nothing more than hot garbage for the last while and nothing is made of it. He's the team's captain! He should lead by example, not drag the team down with him. Same old Iginla, different year, same results.

Exactly why they should've moved him last year when he scored 43 goals (a deviation from his norm).

This team has no one to blame but themselves for being perpetually stuck in the middle.

What would Chicago pay for Kipper?

We won't go all in and just go for broke, do every last thing possible to win a Cup and damn the consequences before Iggy and Kipper turn 40 and yet, we won't rebuild either.

At this stage of the game I'd rather have seen the team overpay for Carter than stand pat.

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#29 Born n Raised
February 24 2012, 10:32AM
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Jokinen won't waive his no-trade. He's a family man who has said his girls like living here. As far as the trade-at-the-deadline-then-resign-in-the-offseason scenario, why would he agree to that just to disrupt his family? I'd trade 'em if I thought he'd waive but I don't see him doing that. Feaster's hands really are tied. He has no excuse though for not moving Sarich and Hannan for whatever picks/prospects are being offered, and I mean WHATEVER picks/prospects are being offered!

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#30 Kevin R
February 24 2012, 10:46AM
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Reading between lines, it looks like Feaster might have some pretty intriquing offers for some of our players. Close or not, if the effort and urgency levels are the same as these last 2 games, I think he pulls the trigger on some deals that are going to suprise many. It's one thing to be a few points out & fighting with 5 teams for 1 or 2 spots and we're playing with energy and hunger & we get jobbed by goal posts & crummy officiating. Then you find missing pieces because you know the team wants it. But when they play like these last 2 games and you wonder how in God's green Earth they are even among these 5 teams battling, talking the talk isnt enough.

We went through a period there where they were sacrificing bodies to block shots, players like Iggy were stepping up & played with possession and cycled and created chances. Then the injuries hit & this team doesnt do any of those things anymore, it's been poor Kipper. Maybe they are afraid of getting hurt or maybe deep down they dont feel they have the horses to do it. Definite personality(fear to succeed) of this team of when March hits, other teams raise the intensity & they are not matching it. I think Feaster knows what he has now, lets see what kind of GM he is.

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#31 Sworkhard
February 24 2012, 10:54AM
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@Born n Raised

Sarich has a full NMC as well. Hannan does not have a NMC. Sarich is probably somewhat willing to move somewhere for a few months, but maybe not.

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#32 loudogYYC
February 24 2012, 11:31AM
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@Born n Raised

Steinberg said on OT last night that Jokinens NTC is modified so he can't be traded to a handful of teams.

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#33 RexLibris
February 24 2012, 11:51AM
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I'm trying to think of UFA players that Feaster could acquire to try and keep pace with the other bubble teams right now. Comeau for Huselius? Horak for Boyes? Pahlsson for a pick?

There aren't that many options out there, which is why I have a feeling that Feaster and Conroy will start messaging the "players returning from injury is LIKE a deadline trade" line.

Here's a question for Flames fans, though, following on the line of thought of Feaster having to stand up and backtrack or justify or explain the state of the franchise after his earlier pronouncements: could this season be truly considered a success if the results are, more or less, the same as the previous three?

Feaster won't have to apologize for saying that the Flames will finish ahead of the Oilers. Nobody in the Edmonton media will likely even ask him about it. Neither, I think, would any in the Calgary media. Nor should he have to say too much about making a playoff drive and refusing to trade away important pieces for rentals and the proverbial "whales" of available talent in Nash and Carter.

However, from a Flames fan perspective, is it really better for the organization to finish 10th-ish in the West this year? That is a question I would like to have posed to Feaster and rate his answer against the thoughts of fans.

I'm not posing this question with any intent at fishing for a right answer or trying to start a debate about the direction of the team, I'm just trying to get a lead on the overall sentiment in Calgary after a mixed-bag of a season.

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#34 Kevin R
February 24 2012, 12:25PM
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RexLibris wrote:

I'm trying to think of UFA players that Feaster could acquire to try and keep pace with the other bubble teams right now. Comeau for Huselius? Horak for Boyes? Pahlsson for a pick?

There aren't that many options out there, which is why I have a feeling that Feaster and Conroy will start messaging the "players returning from injury is LIKE a deadline trade" line.

Here's a question for Flames fans, though, following on the line of thought of Feaster having to stand up and backtrack or justify or explain the state of the franchise after his earlier pronouncements: could this season be truly considered a success if the results are, more or less, the same as the previous three?

Feaster won't have to apologize for saying that the Flames will finish ahead of the Oilers. Nobody in the Edmonton media will likely even ask him about it. Neither, I think, would any in the Calgary media. Nor should he have to say too much about making a playoff drive and refusing to trade away important pieces for rentals and the proverbial "whales" of available talent in Nash and Carter.

However, from a Flames fan perspective, is it really better for the organization to finish 10th-ish in the West this year? That is a question I would like to have posed to Feaster and rate his answer against the thoughts of fans.

I'm not posing this question with any intent at fishing for a right answer or trying to start a debate about the direction of the team, I'm just trying to get a lead on the overall sentiment in Calgary after a mixed-bag of a season.

Rex, I think too much could be read into Feasters earlier statements that we are going for it. Call it misdirection but him & Brent where not happy campers last night. Sometimes decisions are forced upon you & Feaster has known the history of this core group & I truly do think he is allowing them to back what they said during their exit interviews last April. He even added a piece like Cammi, which is low risk for him & got rid of an indifferent inconsistent player that would have been traded regardless by Feb 27th. I think last night was the beginning of the back tracking publicly. There is simply no miracle piece to turn this team into a serious contender because the assets to make those kind of moves just are not there. There are no trades coming to make a push, Carter was a real outside chance but that is about it. Whats behind doors number 2 & 3 are rebuild & sell versions. Feaster gave this group 62 games to get in a playoff position & show they have the heart, hunger & drive to being a playoff bound team. Only a handful of players have shown this. I'm sure the ownership group & Ken King watch the games & they arent stupid. The last 2 games were disgusting for this point on the year. Sometimes the best decisions you make are the ones where you got the foot to the rear & pushed you through the door of opportunity. I think decisions are pretty well made & Saturdays game will be used to determine the speed of how these decisions will unfold.

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#35 Danny Lawson
February 24 2012, 12:30PM
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Not only do the Flames have little another GM might want as they go into the playoffs, but the club is also saddled with 75% of the players having contracts that restrict movement. OJ is probably the most attractive asset the team wishes to move but all Ollie has to do is say no and he is well within his contractual rights to do so. Old, lacking talent and uninspired. Sounds like a winning formula doesn't it? This organization is a complete mess. Lastly, what in the heck was Jarome's comment at the games conclusion concerning "giving it their all"? Feasters comments seemed to be pinpointing Jarome in particular for lacking intensity. Playfair might be right, Iginla isn't the leader we took him to be.

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#36 Kent Wilson
February 24 2012, 12:37PM
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@RexLibris

I posited that running in place (ie; be a 7-10 place team in the West) was the best the team could hope for coming into the season. They've done that, but only because Kipper has raised his ES SV% by 25 points over last year.

In fact they have gone backwards by a few steps, and largely in areas that count - the top-6 have gone from being mediocre at driving play to detriments. Flames sit as one of the worst outshooting and possession teams in the league currently. The injuries haven't helped, but they have exposed the expensive core players a bit.

As expressed by myself and others this summer, the Flames main need remains truly elite, top-6 forward talent. Their big guns aren't there any more and they are on the wrong end of the career arc to expect meaningful improvement in the future. As such, a continued degradation in results can be expected if the club continues to tinker around the edges.

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#37 schevvy
February 24 2012, 12:41PM
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where's everton fc? He should be in a pretty good mood today, because the Flames have recalled Guillaume Desbiens from Abbotsford.

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#38 suba steve
February 24 2012, 12:42PM
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@Kevin R

I'm in agreement, though it may not be a popular opinion here, these guyes are not stupid. Just hoping the message has finally sunk in, your franchise player (Iggy) has not recently and will not ever deliver this team to another cup run. The last one was a freak occurance (it was spectacular though) and Iggy didn't do that one all on his own. He, like every other player, is flawed. His biggest flaw currently is that he is an aging hockey player. Move him for as much youth/picks as you can get. Please, no tears and claims that there are no guarantees that the youth we recieve will become impact players. There are NO GUARANTEES. The only guarantee is that he is a diminishing asset.

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#39 the-wolf
February 24 2012, 12:55PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

I posited that running in place (ie; be a 7-10 place team in the West) was the best the team could hope for coming into the season. They've done that, but only because Kipper has raised his ES SV% by 25 points over last year.

In fact they have gone backwards by a few steps, and largely in areas that count - the top-6 have gone from being mediocre at driving play to detriments. Flames sit as one of the worst outshooting and possession teams in the league currently. The injuries haven't helped, but they have exposed the expensive core players a bit.

As expressed by myself and others this summer, the Flames main need remains truly elite, top-6 forward talent. Their big guns aren't there any more and they are on the wrong end of the career arc to expect meaningful improvement in the future. As such, a continued degradation in results can be expected if the club continues to tinker around the edges.

Yes, which is why they should eithe rbreakthe bank and sell the farm to go all in on one last run for this year and next (before Iggy and Kipper are 36) or rebuild.

Iginla should've been moved last deadline or in the summer to capitalize on his 43 goal season.

Kipper this season.

Instead we will continue to float in the middle until we fall off the cliff and are forced into an Oil-style rebuild.

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#40 Kent Wilson
February 24 2012, 12:58PM
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@the-wolf

I wouldn't break the bank to try for another run this year Wolf. The club is way too far back of the contenders to become a meaningful threat, short of adding a Kesler or Datsyuk (which won't happen).

The view now has to be the long one I think.

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#41 Bob Cob
February 24 2012, 01:13PM
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As per a tweet by Mark Spector:

"Had 2 NHL execs repeat a theme this week: "Flames r driving towards a cliff, and in total denial of their situation." Intellectual honesty?"

Still have faith in Feaster?

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#42 suba steve
February 24 2012, 01:44PM
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Bob Cob wrote:

As per a tweet by Mark Spector:

"Had 2 NHL execs repeat a theme this week: "Flames r driving towards a cliff, and in total denial of their situation." Intellectual honesty?"

Still have faith in Feaster?

The next 3 days will write the book on his tenure as Flames GM. I'm hoping for the best, won't be shocked if we get the worst.

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#43 Danny Lawson
February 24 2012, 01:46PM
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Completely agree with the sentiment of Spector's tweet. The Flames are much like the stock trader who is bound and determined to hang onto a stock who's value is plummeting into insolvency. Of course, compounding the clubs problems are the no movement contracts the Flames management gave to virtually all players like so much Halloween candy. Calgary beloved hockey team really is going down, ... in Flames. RIP.

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#44 PrairieStew
February 24 2012, 01:49PM
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Feasters interview with Roger pretty much showed he is being intellectually honest.

If Sarich and Hannan get moved and ostensibly replaced by Babchuk and Piskula for this year and real prospects come back then I am for that.

Jackman and Kosto could generate 3rd or 4th round picks in this sellers market. The other guys that could generate more - Stempniak and Moss are unfortunatley hurt. Jokinen has earned the right to stay out the season if he wants, but he might look at it as not only an opportunity for him, but a chance to help this org if he does move next week, and then come back to a stronger team over the summer.

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#45 loudogYYC
February 24 2012, 01:52PM
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@Bob Cob

Is it really Feaster that's in denial? Flames ownership is more involved than it seems, my guess is that the guys that know oil and gas and don't know hockey, are the ones pushing blindly in the same direction.

If that's the case we can't call it denial anymore, these bastards know what they're doing.

How about misplaced priorities?

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#46 RexLibris
February 24 2012, 01:59PM
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@ the-wolf, KevinR, and the inimitable Kent Wilson,

Okay then, so the Flames are, based on our rough agreement of assessments, in a steady slow decline against which they have been making short-term, marginal moves in a vain attempt to swim against the tide of time and the improvement of opposing teams. Sound fair?

Based on that, as KevinR said, there are now two doors open to them. With those options now being considered here on FN, I would suggest that Flames fans take a very strong interest in the kind of return that both Carter and, eventually, Nash garner as Iginla has numbers that are comparable but is older and has an expiring contract. My guess is that the deals of those two players will have some impact on any immediate appraisal of Iginla's value should that option be explored this summer. My feeling is that he would likely return more than Carter but perhaps not as much as Nash, but that is an argument for another day.

Kent, you mention "breaking the bank" for this year as not being plausible and suggest the long-term view. Does that mean that you are coming to conclusion that a larger-scale rebuild is in order? Or is there a third option you have in mind? Earlier this year you felt that adding a key piece via free agency would take this squad from a 7-10th team to the next level, somewhere in the 4-7th range. Is this still something you advocate? In other words, is Parise the required difference maker for this group?

Trading Kiprusoff and others while retaining your youngest players and prospects and signing Iginla to a retirement, cap-friendly deal with a handshake agreement to move him to a bona fide contender should the occasion present itself sounds like a plausible scenario.

KevinR, I like what you suggest in that Feaster has essentially positioned himself relative to the team such that, with the player's poor play, he could make some drastic moves and the fans would support him at this time because of their disenchantment with this roster.

Also, what you've said about the Flames basically running out of options is EXACTLY what happened here in Edmonton and something that so many people outside of the city (and some even within it) fail to recognize. That sometimes, fate just stops giving you the subtle hints and delivers a massive kick to your behind.

The timing of this is terrible as the assets that the Flames have to move may have actually lost some value by now with many of the buyers already having stocked up.

I think Feaster's appearance of having a "let's wait and see what we have" strategy has only served to delay the inevitable and the ideal window for action has begun to close. Based on market values, the best time to have sold off expiring UFAs was last weekend and early this week. Perhaps that changes Saturday and Sunday. We'll see.

the-wolf, this summer what would most Flames fans feel about trading Cammalleri, Tanguay, Bouwmeester, Babchuk and Kiprusoff? Because of the many NTCs I don't know that a 1st and a blue-chip prospect is a fair return for every single one of them, but assuming a modest to below-average return, if that is what it took to kick the franchise into the next phase of their existence, would Flames fans be supportive of moves as dramatic as those?

One last thing I'd like to add: if a total rebuild (let's not call it Oiler-style, call it Flames-style and make your own template) is put into effect, is Feaster the best one to be at the helm for that and do any of you have the faith in the scouting and development departments that it could be done well?

Good luck against Philly.

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#47 suba steve
February 24 2012, 02:06PM
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Thought this might be a good time to submit this. I have managed my 14 year old son's hockey teams for the last 2 years and we are heading for a provincial tournament for the second straight year. Please accept this as my application for the Flames GM position. I KNOW what has to be done. If you bring me in as Jay's "assistant" (wink-wink) and give us the greenlight, I will make sure the necessary trades occure. Iggy, thank you, you're gone. Olli, thank you, also gone (don't sell your place yet as I would be interested in bringing you back next year on a reasonable 2 year deal). Mika, I respectfully ask if you will accept a trade, you have earned my loyalty and respect and I will only move you if you give your blessing. I will not be upset if you choose to stay. Hannan & Sarich, thanks and by-by. Then when we lose a lot next year (and we will) I can be instituted as Jay's replacement. Or hey, let me go too. Did I mention that I'm only signing up if I get a lucrative 5 year pact?

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#48 Tears of RED
February 24 2012, 02:52PM
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The old guards on this team is too complacent. They talk the good talk, but when it's crunch time, they have disappeared... this will be the 3rd or 4th year in a row now. I have no idea why there is no killer instinct with this team!!?? It's like... we're up 2 - 0... time to cruise because they expect the other team to give up. The Flames may give up if trailing 2 - 0, but other teams don't!!! Wake the F - Up Iggy!!!

Give the "C" to Cammi... maybe he'll starting the Flames a bunch of losers and they might wake up and at least start trying. Or least look like they're trying because it sure as hell doesn't looked like they are!

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#49 the-wolf
February 24 2012, 03:47PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

I wouldn't break the bank to try for another run this year Wolf. The club is way too far back of the contenders to become a meaningful threat, short of adding a Kesler or Datsyuk (which won't happen).

The view now has to be the long one I think.

I totally agree. I've been in the rebuild camp for years. But given Feaster's comments, do one or the other. Just don't sit there and do nothing.

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#50 negrilcowboy
February 24 2012, 03:49PM
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another year older and closer to death. should have blown the damn thing up last trade deadline. another 12 th place finish and older assets. wonderful vision.

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