Postgame: Mass Hysteria

Justin Azevedo
March 22 2012 10:47PM

 

 

The main narrative in the coming days (besides the unlikeliness of the Flames making the playoffs) will be the debate over Brent Sutter's job; and with good reason. An absolutely childish pair of decisions in the shootout were one of the many culprits in the Flames' 3-2 loss to the Minnesota Wild.

The Recap

For the most part in the opening frame, there was nothing doing for either team-the only chance of note was an early oppourtunity for ex-Calgary emergency call up Warren Peters off a pass from Jed Ortmeyer. The Flames were managing to push the puck the right way, however, as Josh Harding was busy in the first. Harding had a couple difficult points where he struggled to control the puck-likely rust from yet another recent injury-caused layoff. The Flames did finish off the period strong with a pressure-heavy power play that led to Lee Stempniak's 13th goal of the season with just over a minute left. The Flames grossly outshot the Wild (17-4), but were somehow outchanced in the period, 4-3.

Anton Babchuk got his first of the year after the Wild took a double minor (courtesy of Olli Jokinen's face) to start the period. Just 10 seconds into that double minor, the Wild would add more to that penalty situation as Nate Prosser decided to play a little catch with the referee. Babchuk potted the aforementioned goal with 30 seconds left in the first half of the 4 minute penalty to put the Flames up two. Dany Heatley would pull the Wild within one when he unleashed a pretty wicked one-timer into the back of the net for the Wild's first goal of the game-on the PP, to boot-at 8:36. The Wild reeled the game in a little towards the end of the period, outshooting the Flames 12-9 and outchancing them 10-9.

If you could personify "meh", it would take the form of the third period. The first ten "exciting" minutes resulted in a grand total of 5 shots and 2 chances, rendering it nigh unwatchable. The action would pick up a little late on, however, as Minnesota would start to push against the shell, breaking it at 12:23 as Darroll Powe would redirect a weak goal past Kiprusoff to tie the game at two. That score would hold true the rest of the way, as the two teams would go to overtime. The Wild dominated in shots and chances, winning both by respective counts of 12-3 and 6-2.

In overtime, EVERYTHING WAS HAPPENING. Giordano hit the inside of a post, Matt Cullen missed a wide open net, Cal Clutterbuck tripped on a breakaway...just a horribly nerve-wracking five minutes, but no one was able to bulge the twine.

The shootout was horrific. More on that below.

The Stars

1. Josh Harding

2. Mikko Koivu

3. Dany Heatley

The Final

First, let me start off by saying that the game was not simply lost because of poor decisions in the shootout. No, a horrible effort in the last 30 minutes in which the Flames sat back-like they always do-started the downfall, as it allowed the Wild to tie the game and allow it to go to a shootout. Saying that, however...

The shootout is a self-contained skills competition. The rest of the game has no bearing on the result of it; unless there was an injury that hampered a shooter or goaltender. To not use your most skilled players in a skill competition is absurd. This team still thinks it can make it to the playoffs; whether or not we (as fans) agree with that is irrelevant. The people in the organization have said that in both private and in public. Thus, it makes little to no sense as to why Blair Jones and Blake Comeau were out there when you have 3, 4, 5 other guys on the bench who are better with the puck then those two. If players were sat to teach them a "lesson", that's stupid. Why would anyone ever want to lower their chances of winning?

Anyways, the Flames probably need 9 or 10 points to make the playoffs. They play next on Saturday against the Stars. Game time is 12 Mountain on FAN 960 and some television station that is unknown.

A9d138d0e612f28cd46f9b7057ed715d
Justin is a 23-year-old Flames fan who also happens to be pursuing a double major at the University of Calgary. He has played hockey at high levels, enjoys wearing shorts and tends to drink far too much Grasshopper. Please don't hate him.
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#1 petemaherrocks
March 23 2012, 01:22AM
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just a side note of positive news, oilers officialy eliminated from playoff contention tonite

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#2 Kevin R
March 22 2012, 11:36PM
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Well Justin, I guess if you were coach & you had lost how many friggin shutout games in a row with these so called "talented" players, maybe this was sending a statement to these "talented" players similar to last year where he put all defenceman on the power play. I am not advocating Sutter here, but the reaction on overtime, on the live chat & in posts makes me shake my head. In fact I think if we scroll back to the Columbus shutout loss, I recall many saying why dont we let some of the younger guys shoot because everyone has the book on Iggy Tanguay & Joker as they do the same moves every time. I'm pissed at a lot of things with these Flames, crapping the bed with "Lottery Row" teams, but let this shutout selection go & hope the hell Feater & King & friggin Edwards get the hint, your stars arent doing the job in the "skills" side of the game.

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#3 everton fc
March 23 2012, 10:14AM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

I totally agree with Sutters decision to put Stajan and Stempniak in the shootout. I may have put Tanguay as #3 or at the very least #4, but seriously. It's not like the big guys have been saving it for us. Iginla was terrible in terms of finish last night, he had 2 or 3 very good chances to add to the lead but couldn;t find the handle or mis-fired. So why put him in.

I applaud Sutter for trying something else, whether it smells of desperation or not. We are desperate! This game should never have gotten to OT in the first place. As for Sutter's apparent tirade, good for him. At least the coach is showing passion.

We are still very much in the mix but the team can no longer say they control their own destiny. My mind is very much now on next year and possible moves Feaster can make to improve this club. I would love to hear suggestions or thoughts others have had.

I agree with this comment, at least the first two paragraphs. He went with players who showed heart, though Comeau remains a question.

Sutter's fed-up, and probably can't wait to get out of here. Who can blame him? True, he might be part of the problem - all coaches make mistakes, tactics sometimes backfire. Brent didn't care what the fans or Feaster felt, he went with what he felt were the players "just giving". Those who got benched...

The only one I might argue should have been in there was Tanguay. Tangs over Comeau. Otherwise...

We have no heart. No killer instinct. Look at the Bruins. Those guys come to play. We shouldn't have been in the shoot out - that's the bottom line, and what Brent was absolutley frustrated with.

My only hope is Feaster is not the one charting the path of the future. But I think he will be.

Good comment on Brossoit. Might I remind everyone, if he pans out, he was a 6th round pick. Feaster traded a 5th for PL3. Never forget this, nor the contract he was going to offer Richards. And we moved a 7th for Modin.

Now 7th round picks usually don't turn into anything... But Modin was a gibbled, damaged vet anyone could have seen was destined for retirement. Anyone, too, could have wagered Modin would be in sick-bay sooner, than later. And so he was...

Incredible.

Again, Brossoit was a 6th. Ferland, a 5th. Gaudreau, a 4th. Brodie, a 4th. And so on.

Feaster's moved 2nd round picks. Ty Rattie was a 2nd. David Musil. Brad Ross, Brett Bulmer and Alex Petrovic in 2010. And so forth. How many did Feaster move - how many picks and prospects so far? How is it any different than Darryl??

We seem to have clouded our minds by the pick of Baertschi last summer. Many GMs would have poached Baertschi. Many. Feaster really couldn't lose with that one. How will Granlund do, as the #2 pick? He's 5'10", 163 pounds. Not big. Wotherspoon seems a good pick, but one Darryl might have made, as well, if he was available at #57.

Again, think of the Richards offer. This is your barometer. Your measuring stick. In my opinion.

I don't know... As a fan, if we don't gut the executive, we're going nowhere soon. Just my opinion. They've allowed this group of heartless characters to remain here. If they, the executive, had heart, they'd have gutted the dressing room some time ago. Instead, they enable it, which undermines any coach/coaching staff. I wonder if Brent wanted Feaster to make some moves at the deadline, and if he did, what those moves would have been? Perhaps we'll never know...

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#4 jeremywilhelm
March 22 2012, 11:08PM
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Afternoon game? Thats a loss.

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#5 VK63
March 22 2012, 11:14PM
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It WAS nigh on unwatchable for extended portions.

When sutter was losing his mind waiting for the review on the tying goal I was entertained. The more he yelled the more glazed the stares of his broken steeds. It was painful to watch. The point he was making was.... one fn shot? seriously.... &%%#%@*&%

And the response.

durrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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#6 Domebeers.com
March 22 2012, 11:30PM
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Not only did the coach actively suppress the clubs chances to win with that little move he pulled with the shootout selections (which JA I agree if it was to teach lessons with a handful of games left is just insane) but the guy then skipped the post game press conference.

What a coward.

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#7 Spitoon
March 22 2012, 11:31PM
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What a frustrating team to be a fan of.

Yet another game where the Flames lacked the killer instinct to put a team away. When the shots were 21-4 in favour of the Flames, I asked myself how long it would be before the shots were even. How predictable.

I agree with Justin's point about the shootout (although there's no way this game should have gone to a shootout). It's always said that "Your best players have to be your best players". Not putting them on the ice give you zero chance of that happening. The only thing I can think of is that Sutter's decision arose from utter frustration at another lackluster effort.

Losing to the 29th and 30th place teams, as well as the worst team since January in the last week summarizes just about all you need to know about this season.

I think it is glaringly obvious that there is a problem at the core of this team when it comes to leadership. Who is stepping up in the room and making these guys accountable?

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#8 Kevin R
March 22 2012, 11:39PM
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Correction to above, should read shootout not shutout. My apologies, Im just cranky.

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#9 RexLibris
March 23 2012, 12:36AM
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@Kevin R

I was thinking the exact same thing: didn't their "top players" get stoned in the shootout?

There isn't necessarily a connection between a good offensive player and a good shootout player. Sometimes it is obvious (Eberle, St. Louis, Jussi Jokinen), sometimes not. I don't imagine Tom Renney would ever put Ladislav Smid on the shootout unless it came down to him or Dubnyk. And then he might give it to Devan first. But Sutter probably was thinking "I've given these other guys every other chance and gotten nowhere. What's left to lose? The game?"

These last few games are trending towards the disastrous and if there isn't some form of locker room leadership and team meetings to create some solidarity with the coaching staff this team could be a whole lot worse coming out of the summer than they were even going into it.

On the plus side, Nathan McKinnon and Seth Jones looks like pretty good prospects at the top of next year's draft. ;-)

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#10 Sobueno
March 23 2012, 12:57AM
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@Kevin R

Agreed on the post-game reactions, I was listening to McSorley on Sportsnet ripping Sutter for not using Iginla and Tanguay in the shootout. Apparently they don't have a minute to look up our pretty terrible shootout record, and who is typically making the shots.

So I'm not totally convinced Sutter was sending a message, but think he was actually just trying to win. Iggy and Tanguay haven't been all that successful to date in the shootout, so why not go with someone like Stajan who has been pretty hot recently (not sure why he picked Jones and Comeau instead though).

From a quick check I believe Iginla has been approximately 25% in the shootout this year, whereas the league average is closer to 35%. Not exactly a sure bet when it comes to the coin toss that is the shootout.

And lastly, hard to keep up much hope when they've been losing to the bottom end teams while theoretically this is the time when they give 110%. At this point, injuries are becoming less and less a viable excuse too.

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#11 FireOnIce
March 23 2012, 01:06AM
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First off, BS my comment didn't get added ("Changes you wanted were rejected"). I didn't swear, so why would it be cancelled? Repeating myself is even worse than the Flames losing after a 2-0 lead.

Seriously, 2-0? And they lost in a shootout? Do something right for once. Start your offensive players in the o-zone. 20+ shot differential at one point and you can't win? A bottom feeder?

Give me all the BS you want, but that's a load. They should've won. "Oh, you should've won against big teams, what gives you that right?" We have beaten SJ, DET, and VAN this season, why can the Flames not beat a team who has been terrible the last 3 months?

It comes to a point where I don't cheer for them. My roommate asks why I care more about fantasy hockey, why I root against my team. I don't - I love the Flames. But, if you can't win a single game against freakin' Minnesota, or even any game when it most matters, why bother rooting for them?

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#12 FireOnIce
March 23 2012, 01:09AM
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Also, I don't know who went in the shootout because I didn't see the game, but it sounds like Sutter changed it up from Iginla/Tanguay/Jokinen.

That's what Flames fans wanted, someone else who could score. Sutter does that and people get infuriated. Choose one or the other - do you want someone with talent who does the same move every single time, or do you want someone new?

Other teams use video analysis to determine what their opponents' goalies weakness is. The Flames apparently do not. Welcome to reality, do something that helps your team - don't just sit around, holding practice like you're 15 years old and all you have to do is triple deke to beat the goalie.

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#13 NateBaldwin
March 23 2012, 01:28AM
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This has been a really tough stretch as a flames fan.

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#16 KetchupKid
March 23 2012, 02:45AM
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@Justin Azevedo

always? I wish it were so...

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#17 Franko J
March 23 2012, 05:42AM
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By reading several of these comments, I feel there is plenty of frustration from fellow flames fanatic.

Everyone can analyze this team to death of what is wrong, however, it comes down three things to be successful at the NHL level:

1. Talent 2. Heart 3. Confidence

On this team right now and throughout this season, there is only realistically one or two players, maybe three who have displayed these three characteristics. Unfortunately for this season, the best player who demonstrated all three aspects consistently was sent back to junior hockey.

Even though Sutter has done a commendable job with little talent and rash of injuries, I think when the final whistle blows to end this season, this is where it is imperative for Flames Ownership and management to really start looking to a different direction in coaching and player personnel.

For Jay Feaster, whether he is the "right person" to lead this team out the " wilderness of mediocrity", I firmly believe he has the chance and ability this off season to really start making positive changes to this team.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I found that last nights game, like many other games this season was very boring to watch with little excitement. While there is " try" and " worked very hard" from these players on a nightly basis, where is the " inspired play" and " skilled team" ?

That being said, I find the Flames are like a movie which gets you hyped up with trailers and teasers. But by the end of the movie, it leaves an empty and lacking feeling in the pit of your stomach. You think to yourself " the trailer was better than the movie". Well, I think this season was just like a movie with good potential, however, in the end ----- waste of time with no real value in entertain ing.

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#18 suba steve
March 23 2012, 06:54AM
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Continuing on the Movie Theme:

Flames get out to a lead vs. "lesser opponent", squander that lead, Flames lose game. I think we've all seen this movie before. Shootout participants do not even register on my "who gives a crap" meter. On the other hand, good for you Sutter, why bother sending the usual crew in to lose you the shootout when any old shooters will do. Any new "trade #12 & #34" converts out there? Or do you still want them to "lead" this team?

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#19 bruins
March 23 2012, 07:06AM
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This organization is mediocre at best. I guess everything depends on season ticket renewals. If they sell 97% of seats then I don't see much changing, right mr. king. There was talk last week about getting the red mile ready for the playoffs. If by some miracle the flames make the playoffs they won't get past the first round. This team is not built for a serious playoff run.You need to change management, scouts and so on......well maybe next year

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#20 everton fc
March 23 2012, 07:29AM
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No matter what we say, no matter what us fans want, here's how I think things will play out;

1. Sutter's done here. Who they bring in matters, but see #2;

2. Feaster stays. He gets a chance to build the club his way. As I've said many times before here, evidence of Feaster as GM are found in the Modin signing last season ("for the playoff run" - this should have been our first sign), offering Richards an insane contract (look at Richards stats this season - comparable to Glencross), signing Babchuk, dumping a 5th round pick in a depper-than-normal draft (again, Ferland was a 5th)... Moving picks in the Regehr and Bourque trades (HOlland may come back to bite us)... Not being able to parlay more for Regehr... and so forth. The 'bright side' - signed Baertschi (most GMs would have, as the 13th pick - not rocket science), signing Jones (maybe). Some say Comeau, but Comeau has put up similar production to Kostopoulos. I'd say Kosto was more valuable, most nights... And I know we had to move Bourque... But for Cammy? I still sit on the fence about Cammy... small size... perimieter player... Where does he fit in our future?

So... We'll suffer through another year of hoping Feaster is "the man". We'll have a new coaching staff (Lowry and Malarchuk may be retained) and will wonder if Iggy and Kipper will move on (we could build around both, like great teams would... but most want to move them both. Perhaps we should)

I am not excited about the draft, because I am not excited by the combo-platter of Feaster and Weisbrod. So there you have it.

I'll still pull for the team, of course. But I find myself not really caring when I miss the odd game to play a board game with the kids.

In other words... I am finding other ways of filling the void left by this team. Which is probably healthy. On any fronts!

To close... I`ll agree with Franko J`s commebnt below;

``Everyone can analyze this team to death of what is wrong, however, it comes down three things to be successful at the NHL level:

1. Talent 2. Heart 3. Confidence

On this team right now and throughout this season, there is only realistically one or two players, maybe three who have displayed these three characteristics. Unfortunately for this season, the best player who demonstrated all three aspects consistently was sent back to junior hockey.`

We have some talent, but no elite-level players outside maybe Kipper. Many night we lack heart. Lack killer-instinct. This translates into no confidence...

Starts from the top down. The rebuild, I mean.

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#21 negrilcowboy
March 23 2012, 07:29AM
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very mature behaviour mr butta. yell scream pout kick the chit out of a garbage can ice duds in your critical shootout loss. yep its the players not buying in to the system. sutter must be fired today, this dog and pony show has ran its course. interesting to see an analysis of stupid coaching moves and the resultant loss of crucial points. my guess is butter has cost his team a dozen points this season by not executing good judgement and tactics.

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#22 negrilcowboy
March 23 2012, 08:14AM
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does anyone know of the details behind the reported buter trirate and his discussion with feaster post game. koulas is reporting that butter and feaster had words and that hartsie did the presser because brent was fuming.

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#23 Jeff Lebowski
March 23 2012, 08:36AM
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What is extremely perplexing is their habit of going into the 'prevent shell'.

Time after time the players and coaches post game describe how they went into a shell and got away from the good habits.

The science of habits is interesting. It's as if the condition of being up in a game illicit a paralyzing effect on the Flames and they can't do anything about it (in game).

They should read Duhigg's book and figure out how to make new habits.

Ahhh well. Hopefully they figure it out and go on a nice seven game winning streak.

PS-The sun did rise today. [enter euphemism about sun setting on season here].

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#24 T&A4Flames
March 23 2012, 09:18AM
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I totally agree with Sutters decision to put Stajan and Stempniak in the shootout. I may have put Tanguay as #3 or at the very least #4, but seriously. It's not like the big guys have been saving it for us. Iginla was terrible in terms of finish last night, he had 2 or 3 very good chances to add to the lead but couldn;t find the handle or mis-fired. So why put him in.

I applaud Sutter for trying something else, whether it smells of desperation or not. We are desperate! This game should never have gotten to OT in the first place. As for Sutter's apparent tirade, good for him. At least the coach is showing passion.

We are still very much in the mix but the team can no longer say they control their own destiny. My mind is very much now on next year and possible moves Feaster can make to improve this club. I would love to hear suggestions or thoughts others have had.

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#25 sam67
March 23 2012, 09:22AM
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After the game before last the boards lit up with discontent over the same players taking and failing game after game in the shootout. Something else is tried and the boards lite up with same discontent. What is it exactly that you people want? Besides wins? Dammed if you do, damned if you don't.

Talk about a group of players folding their tents at the worst time of the year. No heart, no "push back" The front line money players have absolutely stunk it up since Edmonton last Friday.

If this isn't evidence that radical change in the dressing room must occur, I don't know what it's gonna take.

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#26 Shredder
March 23 2012, 09:23AM
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Wait wait wait wait...the last time the Flames played any of the "lottery row" teams, all of which in a playoff push, they've lost? That would be losses to Anaheim, Minnesota, Edmonton and Columbus...Iggy and Kipper are your talent, with Sven coming up, but as an Oiler fan who used to share season tix to the Flames, I can not help but smile...the direction the Flames take will make a huge difference to where this team is going to be in the next 10 years, as this is the summer most of the money comes off the books, and there is still a tiny bit of value left in a few of the big contracts (although the Flames are stuck with Cammy for a while). I predict it'll be a minimum 4 years until the Flames see the playoffs.

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#27 T&A4Flames
March 23 2012, 09:35AM
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Looking forward, Ferland scored in the Wheat Kings win last night in the WHL playoffs. Game 2 tonight as does Sven & company against Broissoit and the Oil kings. I'm liking what I've heard about Brossoit. I have a good feeling about him. Maybe we stole one there.

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#28 Tommy Gunn
March 23 2012, 09:50AM
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Not a coaching Issue. Many different coaches. Players need to be responsible for effort, drive and desire...You can't teach that.That's it for me, apathy has set in and too many other things to do than waste my time watching the Flames atm.

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#29 the-wolf
March 23 2012, 10:13AM
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pathetic

That said, I don't blame Brent on the shootout although I would've chosen slightly different. Jarome has gone entire seasons without a shootout goal and sucks againthis year, but live or die with your best? Please.

The man is desperate. And seems really #$%#@$%$@#% angry. Maybe, just maybe, if his players showed some of those same 2 traits, the team wouldn't be where they are.

But I forget, 'leadership' doesn't really exist.

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#30 Neil
March 23 2012, 10:17AM
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How about signing Olli? Same deal as Tanguay? If he wants more let him go? That is a big hole to fill at center with no other great options in FA. But any significant term/$$ could leave us with another poor value deal on the books.

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#31 Kent Wilson
March 23 2012, 10:17AM
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Related to comment moderation: our comment filter can be finicky, so sometimes it grabs posts it thinks might be spam for whatever reason.

If you ever have a comment disappear for what seems like no good reason, feel free to message me on twitter or via email and I'll see what I can do.

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#32 saneopinion
March 23 2012, 10:17AM
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The game: Sutter could have played glencross more but didn't to teach him a lesson about taking a bad penalty. That's on Sutter. Glen x has the second most goals on the team, give it a break.

The shootout: Sutter again teaching lessons teached the "How to lose" lesson by sending out plugs to score on a "skill" comp. Petty, immature and amatuer. After the first three he could have sent Jokinen out, who is actually pretty good at these but didn't try to help a player in a funk, he instead whipped him for it.

This was the one game I can say Sutter looked unraveled, broken, frustrated and bad at his job. This loss IMO was for the most part a result of coaching.

The rest of the season?? Well if you take the last three seasons and see that Sutter's record now is 115 wins in 239 games and no playoffs tells you regardless of his coaching and your opinion he's done.

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#33 backburner
March 23 2012, 10:22AM
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@Tommy Gunn

I partially agree with you, you can't solely point the finger at Sutter and the other coaches.. but you have to ask yourself if he is doing his job.. Not playing your best forwards in a shoot out in a must win game, or starting your #1 goalie... questions must be raised... even if they have had limited success on the shootout, that's what they are paid for!

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#34 non descript
March 23 2012, 10:23AM
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@Justin Azevedo

not sure if 93 points gets you in in the west, probably more like 95 or 96. if you are clinging to oiler failure as a reason to be satisfied, take a real introspective look at the direction the two teams are heading and ask yourself how much longer the oilers will be providing you with happiness.

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#35 backburner
March 23 2012, 10:31AM
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Bottom line is players should respond to the coach... you don't mold your team around the coach, or a system! Look at how St. Louis and Anaheim turned there seasons around. Yes sometimes the coach is the scapegoat.. but when you look at the changes that the Flames have made to the Roster, it seems they are building the team around Sutter.. time for a different approach.

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#36 Scott
March 23 2012, 10:39AM
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Re: The shootout selection

I'm very surprised at the outrage at the selection of players in the shootout, Tangs had 1 goal in the shootout this year, why send him out there? I think it was good to try some new players at the shootout, maybe not all 4 new guys, i liked Stempniak and Stajan getting a shot, and comeau I am okay with. In my mind, when it came to the 4th round still tied, thats when you go with a leader and a scorer.

Listening to sportsnet yesterday, and how Doug Maclean related not playing Iggy in the shootout was like not playing Gretzky in Nagano made me laugh. What a poor analogy.

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#38 VK63
March 23 2012, 10:49AM
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I wonder what Flames ownership thinks of the public spectacle that followed the game.

~Can we expect a Ken King "explanation" of the events?~

Wow....

Just when u thought it couldn't get any worse, the teams off ice "leadership" goes all sandbox, in another teams barn.

Dear Murray Edwards:

UNCLE!!!!

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#39 T&A4Flames
March 23 2012, 11:06AM
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@saneopinion

"The game: Sutter could have played glencross more but didn't to teach him a lesson about taking a bad penalty. That's on Sutter. Glen x has the second most goals on the team, give it a break."

Sorry Sane, I have to disagree. That is on GlenX. That's 2 stupid penalties in this charge to make the playoffs that cost this team points. I love GlenX but he isn't that different from Bourque in that respect; dumb penalties at bad times.

As for Joker, just like I said with Iggy earlier in this thread, he wasn't hitting the net all game either. So why put him out in the shoot out.

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#40 Super_Gio
March 23 2012, 11:09AM
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No matter what Sutter does he will be largely criticized. I honestly don't see ANY coach doing any better with this lifeless squad. I'm surprised they didn't loose in regulation as that 3rd period was brutal.

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#41 Kevin R
March 23 2012, 11:16AM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

I totally agree with Sutters decision to put Stajan and Stempniak in the shootout. I may have put Tanguay as #3 or at the very least #4, but seriously. It's not like the big guys have been saving it for us. Iginla was terrible in terms of finish last night, he had 2 or 3 very good chances to add to the lead but couldn;t find the handle or mis-fired. So why put him in.

I applaud Sutter for trying something else, whether it smells of desperation or not. We are desperate! This game should never have gotten to OT in the first place. As for Sutter's apparent tirade, good for him. At least the coach is showing passion.

We are still very much in the mix but the team can no longer say they control their own destiny. My mind is very much now on next year and possible moves Feaster can make to improve this club. I would love to hear suggestions or thoughts others have had.

Well there are lots of things that can be done to change the club, to take a new direction, to change the culture. But if I were a betting man, Feaster wont because King & Edwards are saying he cant. Feaster kind of scares me but no point in griping & predicting end of days with him, he's there, he wont be going anywhere & he's the guy driving the ship. Embrace the horror & get used to it. Cant be much worse than the last couple of years of Darryl.

As for coach, it really doesnt matter, why would Brent even want to stay in this gong show. The problems in the dressing room he cant bench, he cant healthy scratch, he cant complain about in media, he can only pat their behinds when they decide to play the way they should & we win a game. The GM/Management cant trade these guys because they arent allowed to. Why would he stay? Brent will probably tell these guys to go pound & shove this job up there "erectumus glutomus carepete' " If you want to know what that means, I'll give 3 guesses. Its an old slang from the hood in Southwood.

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#42 the-wolf
March 23 2012, 11:32AM
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everton fc wrote:

I agree with this comment, at least the first two paragraphs. He went with players who showed heart, though Comeau remains a question.

Sutter's fed-up, and probably can't wait to get out of here. Who can blame him? True, he might be part of the problem - all coaches make mistakes, tactics sometimes backfire. Brent didn't care what the fans or Feaster felt, he went with what he felt were the players "just giving". Those who got benched...

The only one I might argue should have been in there was Tanguay. Tangs over Comeau. Otherwise...

We have no heart. No killer instinct. Look at the Bruins. Those guys come to play. We shouldn't have been in the shoot out - that's the bottom line, and what Brent was absolutley frustrated with.

My only hope is Feaster is not the one charting the path of the future. But I think he will be.

Good comment on Brossoit. Might I remind everyone, if he pans out, he was a 6th round pick. Feaster traded a 5th for PL3. Never forget this, nor the contract he was going to offer Richards. And we moved a 7th for Modin.

Now 7th round picks usually don't turn into anything... But Modin was a gibbled, damaged vet anyone could have seen was destined for retirement. Anyone, too, could have wagered Modin would be in sick-bay sooner, than later. And so he was...

Incredible.

Again, Brossoit was a 6th. Ferland, a 5th. Gaudreau, a 4th. Brodie, a 4th. And so on.

Feaster's moved 2nd round picks. Ty Rattie was a 2nd. David Musil. Brad Ross, Brett Bulmer and Alex Petrovic in 2010. And so forth. How many did Feaster move - how many picks and prospects so far? How is it any different than Darryl??

We seem to have clouded our minds by the pick of Baertschi last summer. Many GMs would have poached Baertschi. Many. Feaster really couldn't lose with that one. How will Granlund do, as the #2 pick? He's 5'10", 163 pounds. Not big. Wotherspoon seems a good pick, but one Darryl might have made, as well, if he was available at #57.

Again, think of the Richards offer. This is your barometer. Your measuring stick. In my opinion.

I don't know... As a fan, if we don't gut the executive, we're going nowhere soon. Just my opinion. They've allowed this group of heartless characters to remain here. If they, the executive, had heart, they'd have gutted the dressing room some time ago. Instead, they enable it, which undermines any coach/coaching staff. I wonder if Brent wanted Feaster to make some moves at the deadline, and if he did, what those moves would have been? Perhaps we'll never know...

Agree dude. But remember, this is the team that wouldn't ire Yzerman as GM or even give Tippett an interview for coach or go after Hitch when he became available.

Ken King and Murray Edwards are the real architects of this team. The 'GM' is only allowed to make moves that fit within their narrow framework.

Which is probably why they never contacted Yzerman. They knew that if they were to hire a man like that, he would demand full control and they won't do that. Ken Holland could become available and the Flames wouldn't contact him.

Owner interference is killing this team and the MSM never say a word about it. Not even a peep. Some journalistic integrity. The press in TO may be a bunch of idiots, but at least they make their true opinions felt. Here? As long as they get their Iggy quote, it's all good.

Speaking of, anyone hear Iginla's post game interview? 'Nuff said.

Hard to understand some fans - the big stars don't score - "why does he keep playing them?!" Coach goes another way out of extreme frustration and pure desperation - "this is like Nagano and Gretzky!" (no, it's not).

Team falters - "you play Kipper too much!" Put in the back-up who has actually played pretty well - "why is isn't Kipper playing!"

Not Brent's fault that they blew a 2 goal lead. Or that the Wild grossly outchanced them in the final half of the 3rd and OT. Or that players took stupid penalties.

Never would've hired another Sutter in the first place, but to place blame for this team on any coach is severely misplaced.

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#43 NateBaldwin
March 23 2012, 12:32PM
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@the-wolf

On what basis have people decided that it's the ownership group that is pulling all of the strings? It just seems like conjecture to me. We don't know how conversations go between the GM and ownership, and frankly we won't know unless someone decides to write a money-grabbing-tell-all book detailing the dirty dark secrets of the Flames organization 20 years after the fact.

Besides, D. Sutter certainly seemed to have free reign with the team when he tossed Dion for spare parts, fruitlessly searched for a mythical #1 centerman, and dropped a ridiculous contract on an FA defensemen. I can't see how you'd spin those deals such that they look like ownership decisions. What would be the general mandate dictating those moves? What would be the framework?

It's all hearsay at most.

I agree roasting B. Sutter over this game does constitute misplaced blame. But he's entirely to blame for what he can control. Things like zone starts, ice time, and quality of competition (granted more-so at home). I should clarify that I don't know the first thing about playing or coaching hockey, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but if Volman's black box and Wilsons scoring chances and articles on the subject have taught me anything, it's that Brent is an average coach at best.

In fact to his detriment, and looking at the construction of this roster, his refusal to deploy his players in a manner more like AV in Riot City makes me lean towards grading him below average. He is icing this roster as though he is completely ignorant to the idea that some players are better at defence than others, and some better at offence. Not to mention putting the fourth line out on an icing call.

W. T. F. B.Sutter, W. T. F.

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#44 PrairieStew
March 23 2012, 12:45PM
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@everton fc

People are really reaching for criticism when they are bringing up a 7th round pick for Modin. Go and look on hockeydb or some other site and see how often a 7th round pick turns out to have any kind of a career. One or two per year maybe - out of the more than 30 that are picked ( bonus selections given by league apparently). It is 3 or 4 times more likely that a 7th round pick will never play than he will. It was a decision he made at the time for depth purposes - it didn't work out - give it a rest. You can fill that kind of0 organizational depth with college free agents and waiver pickups.

It is great that some of the lower picks are looking good, but they haven't made it yet. Dustin Boyd looked like a 3rd round steal at 19 and 20, but then did not progress.

I'm not sure if you are ragging on Feaster for going after Richards. The guy is consistent and durable and would have made this team better, for this year and quite a few more.

I do agree that ownership has tied the hands somewhat and if they miss the playoffs again hopefully they will be loosed this summer. Given his play this year I think Kiprusoff has a better market than Iginla during the offseaon. I would not be averse to moving Bouwmeester either as he has just 2 years left, someone might want to take him. The aim would be for players that can take significant roles beginning not neccesarily next year or even the year after but in 14-15 when the only current roster players with contracts are Tanguay, Giordano and Glencross.

Iginla's value will be at the peak at the trade deadline - move him then.

Build with Backlund, Baertschi, Butler and Irving in mind - find guys in that age range 20-24.

Bottom line is that the team is going to finish almost exactly where it did last year - and while the biggest assets are again one year older, I feel like the organization is in far better shape.

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#45 everton fc
March 23 2012, 12:51PM
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NateBaldwin wrote:

On what basis have people decided that it's the ownership group that is pulling all of the strings? It just seems like conjecture to me. We don't know how conversations go between the GM and ownership, and frankly we won't know unless someone decides to write a money-grabbing-tell-all book detailing the dirty dark secrets of the Flames organization 20 years after the fact.

Besides, D. Sutter certainly seemed to have free reign with the team when he tossed Dion for spare parts, fruitlessly searched for a mythical #1 centerman, and dropped a ridiculous contract on an FA defensemen. I can't see how you'd spin those deals such that they look like ownership decisions. What would be the general mandate dictating those moves? What would be the framework?

It's all hearsay at most.

I agree roasting B. Sutter over this game does constitute misplaced blame. But he's entirely to blame for what he can control. Things like zone starts, ice time, and quality of competition (granted more-so at home). I should clarify that I don't know the first thing about playing or coaching hockey, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but if Volman's black box and Wilsons scoring chances and articles on the subject have taught me anything, it's that Brent is an average coach at best.

In fact to his detriment, and looking at the construction of this roster, his refusal to deploy his players in a manner more like AV in Riot City makes me lean towards grading him below average. He is icing this roster as though he is completely ignorant to the idea that some players are better at defence than others, and some better at offence. Not to mention putting the fourth line out on an icing call.

W. T. F. B.Sutter, W. T. F.

I agree with a lot of this, as well. You had a bizarre situation w/Brent here, once Darryl left. One could certainly argue their has been collateral damage, as a result.

Again, I say punt the President/GM/Coach and rebuild. A rebuild doesn't necessarily mean a complete blowup. A smart GM/Coach/Staff (scouting) would not blow this thing up completely. It's be done tactically. Without emotion. For the long haul.

Alas... we'll not see such a rebuild here. Not really. Even through the draft. Not with the same cast of characters as puppetmasters from the executive levels...

@ Prairie Stew

I "get" a 7th round pick might be nitpicky... But thinking Freddie Modin could come in here and be a depth-player to get us over the hump and into the playoffs... No GM would have made this move. That's my criticism - if Feaster had made a more tactical move (Carson was the other), we might have made the playoffs last year, which may have helped us this year. Hindsight's 20/20, of course...

As for Richards... that deal he wanted to make was insane. Pure and simple. I personally would have looked past Richards. For a younger, less-expensive option who could be here for some time. So I guess I am ragging on Feaster for going after Richards...

To me, a smart GM would not have followed the herd. One can argue that Sather did the right thing, and that Richards is on a team, has contributed to a team that may win it all. I say the Rangers would be where they are without Richards. Or close.

Richards may have helped us. He may have not helped us. To me, he's an immediate fix, where we need a foundation.

But I do hear what you are saying...

Feaster has also moved picks, and prospects. Look at Holland. True, we needed to rid our selves of Bourque. I simply wonder what a GM like Yzerman would have parlayed for Bourque. That's what I'm sort of getting at. I simply don't trust Feaster with our future.

If we want a clean slate, we need complete change. And it starts in the executive, GM, scouting... behind the bench. It may take 3-4 years for us to be like the Flames of old. But it can be done with the right cast, the right leadership, whether behind the bench, "upstairs", or on the ice.

I once again submit Jason Botterill's name as a young GM with hockey smarts and business acumen... as someone I'd trust w/this organizations future.

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#46 One Cold Canadian
March 23 2012, 01:23PM
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So now, it's time to trade Iggy. Your gonna get what? Maybe a late first round pick? Maybe? How about Kipper? Same thing.

You know that desert that Edmonton has been in for the last 6 years? Ya... They'll be holding the door open for you and ripping up your map as you enter.

Gonna be some long cold winters in cow town for the next decade. Well.. There's always polishing up the belt buckles and two steppin with the fat girls chicks that are way hotter then the ones in deadmonton, huh?

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#47 the-wolf
March 23 2012, 01:36PM
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@NateBaldwin

I'm not saying King and ownership make every decision or decide each trade. But they dictate the philosophy. Make the playoffs. No rebuild. Can't trade Iginla.

No wonder Darryl lost his mind. The particulars of those trades are all his fault, I totally agree. But I look back and see some of the things that Coates, Button, Sutter and Feaster have done and it all fits into that 'win now' mentality.

In that sense then, it doesn't matter who the GM is. Trade a top 6 guy (other than Jarome)? Better get a top 6 guy back, etc. Whoever the GM is will be confined to a set of parameters that are too narrow in which to effect real, meaningful change.

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#48 One Cold Canadian
March 23 2012, 01:57PM
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Nice edit.

Your off the reservation...... But nice edit.

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#49 One Cold Canadian
March 23 2012, 02:03PM
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You do know why it's called COW TOWN right?

Right??

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#50 First Name Unidentified
March 23 2012, 02:04PM
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@Kevin R

Exactly my thoughts.

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