POSTGAME - PLAYING FOR PRIDE?

Vintage Flame
April 01 2012 12:00AM


 

Another loss for the Flames that really no one is surprised by. Going into the game, Calgary had 0.2% of still making the playoffs which realistically meant they had no chance. Even gaining the point in overtime, with the Phoenix win and some games that will al put the math into place, the Flames have officially been eliminated from the playoffs. I won't even give the Canucks the benefit of being the team that eliminated Calgary either, that distinction solely hangs around the neck of each Flames player and coach. Wear it well boys.

THE RECAP

The Flames came out in the first period and actually showed some jump. Playing like they still had something to prove, be it to the fans, or to themselves, they looked to make a statement  early. Applying pressure in the Vancouver zone didn't mean to much though when what has been the case far to often over the last eight games, they had no finish. Then at the 5:08 mark Henrik Sedin carried the puck from the neutral zone all the way into the Flames zone. Half way through the right face off circle, Sedin would saucer pass a back hand over to Maxim Lapierre, that he would in turn push underneath Karlsson's pad, that wasn't even along the ice. Despite Karlsson not playing an NHL game since December, it was a terrible goal and another example as to why Hank won't be with the Flames next season. Shots were 12-7 in favour of the Flames, but the goal took the wind out of their sales and by the end of the period, Vancouver had taken over the scoring chances 7-5.

In the second period, Vancouver completely took over this game. They dominated Calgary in shots, 11-8; and completely decimated them 6-1 in scoring chances. At the 5:20 mark, while on the power play, Olli Jokinen would cough up the puck to Yannick Hansen, and he would be off to the races with the short handed breakaway. At about 5:27, Mark Giordano makes an incredible play, coming all the way back to not only catch hansen, but disrupt the play and knock the puck into the corner. Iginla picks up the puck at his own blueline and goes kitty-corner to the Canucks blueline, stops and feeds Olli Jokinen the one timer for the power play goal. The goal came on their only power play and only scoring chance of the period.

The third period started well for the boys. At just :51 seconds into the frame, Mike Cammalleri unleashed a rocket that Luongo didn't see but I'm sure he heard go passed him and into the net. Great pass from Moss from the left boards and despite all logic, Calgary lead Vancouver 2-1. The Canucks didn't dominate the Flames too much in the third, holding small margins in shots (12-10) and scoring chances (6-4) as well.  At 11:45, Sedin and Burrows would play keep away from Calgary and then dish the puck off to  Marc-Andre Gragnani who would put the slap shot through Karlsson to tie the game at two. Despite Hank feeling he was interfered with by Lapierre, he whiffed on the shot and let another soft goal go in between his arm and his body. Strike two Tower.

Given Calgary's record in overtime, when the clock hit zeros, fans everywhere must have felt like the game was lost. Despite the record, they played overtime anyways, but at 3:52, Karlsson would cap the night off, letting the recently returned Andrew Ebbett score the winner. And that was the ball game.

 THE STARS

1. Maxim Lapierre

2. Mike Cammalleri

3. Andrew Ebbett

THE FINAL

Fans had to know that as soon as they saw Karlsson in net, that the Flames had surrendered to their fate. They can say all they want to the media that they are playing for pride, because what else are they supposed to say? As always actions speak louder than words and if you didn't hear the message tonight, Henrik Karlsson put three exclamation marks on it over a span of sixty-five minutes.

It's not mathematical, but it is official now that they will not be going to the playoffs. With a maximum of 90 possible points, they're done. All that's left now is to sit back and play for fun in the last two games; the party starts on Thursday when they get to play these same Vancouver Canucks. Bring your party favorites, puck drop is at 7 pm on Sportsnet and the Fan 960.

E42f2ca09dfb26046c3060ff46473aff
Vintage Flame is a Calgary based sports junkie that prefers to call hockey a "religion" rather than an addiction. He believes there are two types of hockey fans. Those who cheer for the Flames, and those who don't understand the sport yet. Follow Vintage_Flame on Twitter
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#1 Chris
April 01 2012, 12:16PM
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First Name Unidentified wrote:

What can we get for Iginla?

I was told Lucic and Boychuk for Iggi is a laughable idea.

OK, what about Ty Rattie from the Blues in addition to one of the following: a) TJ Oshie, b) Shattenkirk, c) Chris Stewart, or d) Pietrangelo?

What about Iggi and Tanguay for Lucic and Boychuk?

We already have committed $47.8 million in 17 players for the next season. That doesn't give us much of cap room to be able to sign any big name free agents or trade for an expensive name.

Get rid of JBo, trade Cammi, Send Kipper to a contender, package out Stajan and whoever. This will shed a decent amount of salary.

Let Olli, Stemp, Comeau, Moss, TKo, Sarich, and Hannan walk to free agency. Re-sign Jones and Backlund.

Make Sven, Ferland, and Reinhart regulars in the lineup. Other kids to take regular spots would be Bouma, Brodie, Backs, etc.

The lines would look somewhat like this:

Sven - Backlund - Lucic/Rattie (or any other UFA) Ferland - Horak - Reinhart Tanguay - Jones - Glencross Nemisz - Bouma - Jackman

Gio - Butler Boychuk - UFA Smith - Brodie

Irving Ramo

Man you are delusional. Completely wild mad. Iggy is 35 and a UFA in 1 year. He is at best a rental and will bring back prospects, draft picks, futures. The idea of getting lucic AND someone else is ridiculous. Lucic alone is ridonkulous.

Ty rattie AND piettrangelo?? Hahahahaaaa. We don't have any asset that could get piettrangelo. Baertshi would be the starting point to keep from getting hung up on, then we'd have to throw in iggy and probably kipper too.

People thinking we have assets to turn this ship quick are completely delusional. My point is that we have no option but to get some good draft picks. Teams like the oilers (or the blues in is example) sucked for YEARS to gather those assets, stud dmen or impact superstar fwds. They know how much it sucked to ride the toilet for years in exchange for these star players. The chance of them being traded for iggy is less than zero and it's laughable people think we can turn the ship with a few quick trades for our super awesome almost retiring veterans...

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#2 the-wolf
April 02 2012, 07:56AM
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What a difference it makes being viewed as 33 and scoring 43 goals vs. being viewed as a 30 goal scorer turning 35.

This is exactly why I advocated striking while the iron was hot last year. Good trades are as much about timing as anything. I truly believe that LA would've parted with Schenn for Iggy a year ago. How good would Voynov have looked here? Now, with Richards and Carter there, a team once desperate for proven offense and rich in prospects is off the table.

Still, there are always clubs that will pay a premium to get a proven goal scorer vs the potential risk of a draft pick or even a lower level prospect. They will also pay to keep that player away from other teams.

So to say that that there wouldn't be a lot of interest in Iginla is pure folly. That said, his value over the course of 1 year has dropped considerably.

IMO, he's worth a 'B-level' prospect and a 1st round pick in the 11-20 range.

In other words, the risk in moving Iginla has gone up, but I'd rather gamble on a pick and the best prospect the team can get their hands on then have a player here that will probably score 30 goals again on a team that will probably miss the playoffs again. Iginla is not a mentor or role model type, so there's no value in keeping him.

If we can have Ramo come over (though I've heard he wants to finish next year there) and Irving split duties with him, then move Kipper too. The team will drop several places in the standings and we will secure a higher draft pick for the summer of 2013.

This has been a sharp lesson in why you don't run a hockey club based on nostalgia or delusions of grandeur. Running a club based on the idea that you can scratch into 8th and then "anything can happen, (ie. 'hope')" because it did once, is stupid.

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#3 Sean Bennett
April 01 2012, 12:09AM
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Gonna be an interesting off-season. I really believe that despite all the rhetoric, the Flames` performance in March will engender some significant roster changes. Flames will seriously ponder a semi-rebuild at the very least. I`m thinking Kipper will be gone, while there is a 50é50 chance Iggy is a goner, too.

Oh well, hopefully they lose the last couple of games and solidify their chances of picking 11th. They could get one of Faska, Reinhart, or Ceci in that position.

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#4 I'm Batman
April 01 2012, 12:27AM
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Oiler fan here. In 2008 my team finished 9th in the west. In 2009 they finished 11th. Looks like the flames are following suit perfectly. Anyone care to guess where the Oilers finished the next year? Here's to the Flames finishing last next year, finally being forced into a re-build, and the BOA being back in 2018.

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#5 First Name Unidentified
April 01 2012, 12:40AM
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What can we get for Iginla?

I was told Lucic and Boychuk for Iggi is a laughable idea.

OK, what about Ty Rattie from the Blues in addition to one of the following: a) TJ Oshie, b) Shattenkirk, c) Chris Stewart, or d) Pietrangelo?

What about Iggi and Tanguay for Lucic and Boychuk?

We already have committed $47.8 million in 17 players for the next season. That doesn't give us much of cap room to be able to sign any big name free agents or trade for an expensive name.

Get rid of JBo, trade Cammi, Send Kipper to a contender, package out Stajan and whoever. This will shed a decent amount of salary.

Let Olli, Stemp, Comeau, Moss, TKo, Sarich, and Hannan walk to free agency. Re-sign Jones and Backlund.

Make Sven, Ferland, and Reinhart regulars in the lineup. Other kids to take regular spots would be Bouma, Brodie, Backs, etc.

The lines would look somewhat like this:

Sven - Backlund - Lucic/Rattie (or any other UFA) Ferland - Horak - Reinhart Tanguay - Jones - Glencross Nemisz - Bouma - Jackman

Gio - Butler Boychuk - UFA Smith - Brodie

Irving Ramo

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#6 petemaherrocks
April 01 2012, 01:04AM
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First off season move, fire rob kerr.

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#7 Steve
April 01 2012, 01:07AM
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I dont think Gio touched that puck on the Hansen breakaway. I think he just mishandled it because Gio was pressuring him so much.

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#8 @Gingras34
April 01 2012, 01:33AM
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@First Name Unidentified

You're dreaming. No team wants Tanguay first off. And although Iginla has shown that he can score 30+ still at 35 years of age, the Blue would be out of their mind to give up Rattie for him.

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#9 suba steve
April 01 2012, 01:44AM
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First Name Unidentified wrote:

What can we get for Iginla?

I was told Lucic and Boychuk for Iggi is a laughable idea.

OK, what about Ty Rattie from the Blues in addition to one of the following: a) TJ Oshie, b) Shattenkirk, c) Chris Stewart, or d) Pietrangelo?

What about Iggi and Tanguay for Lucic and Boychuk?

We already have committed $47.8 million in 17 players for the next season. That doesn't give us much of cap room to be able to sign any big name free agents or trade for an expensive name.

Get rid of JBo, trade Cammi, Send Kipper to a contender, package out Stajan and whoever. This will shed a decent amount of salary.

Let Olli, Stemp, Comeau, Moss, TKo, Sarich, and Hannan walk to free agency. Re-sign Jones and Backlund.

Make Sven, Ferland, and Reinhart regulars in the lineup. Other kids to take regular spots would be Bouma, Brodie, Backs, etc.

The lines would look somewhat like this:

Sven - Backlund - Lucic/Rattie (or any other UFA) Ferland - Horak - Reinhart Tanguay - Jones - Glencross Nemisz - Bouma - Jackman

Gio - Butler Boychuk - UFA Smith - Brodie

Irving Ramo

The thought of trading Iggy and Tanguay together interests me. Wonder if it would interest other teams out there? I think if someone like St. Louis or Boston get knocked out early you might find some interest from them. Worth looking into at very least. That is assuming the Flames have finally come to their senses on the trade Iggy issue. If not then god help us.

The same-old trade Stajan, Cammi, JBo story is getting tiresome though. Stajan, are you kidding me, who is going to take him? Besides, has played himself out of his funk, it could continue? Cammi would have to show himself worth his $$ before you could move him, unless you want to reaquire Bourque. JBo-any team would want him, but again his $$ is a problem. If Pronger retires, could the Flyers be tempted?

If they do go total rebuild, why not keep Sarich and/or Hannan to help with the kids? You still have to ice a team. And if Stemp would sign for reasonable $$, why not. Got to have some vets that are at least a modest threat to score to help shelter your kids that make the team. In short, as long as they move Kipper and Iggy, they can come back with the entire team as is for all I care. Result should be a lotto pick in 2013, and thats what we want.

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#10 Jerconjake
April 01 2012, 02:19AM
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First Name Unidentified wrote:

What can we get for Iginla?

I was told Lucic and Boychuk for Iggi is a laughable idea.

OK, what about Ty Rattie from the Blues in addition to one of the following: a) TJ Oshie, b) Shattenkirk, c) Chris Stewart, or d) Pietrangelo?

What about Iggi and Tanguay for Lucic and Boychuk?

We already have committed $47.8 million in 17 players for the next season. That doesn't give us much of cap room to be able to sign any big name free agents or trade for an expensive name.

Get rid of JBo, trade Cammi, Send Kipper to a contender, package out Stajan and whoever. This will shed a decent amount of salary.

Let Olli, Stemp, Comeau, Moss, TKo, Sarich, and Hannan walk to free agency. Re-sign Jones and Backlund.

Make Sven, Ferland, and Reinhart regulars in the lineup. Other kids to take regular spots would be Bouma, Brodie, Backs, etc.

The lines would look somewhat like this:

Sven - Backlund - Lucic/Rattie (or any other UFA) Ferland - Horak - Reinhart Tanguay - Jones - Glencross Nemisz - Bouma - Jackman

Gio - Butler Boychuk - UFA Smith - Brodie

Irving Ramo

Frankly, any major trade with the Bruins is laughable. If for some reason they wanted to break up a core which won the Stanley Cup, you're still talking about trading $10.5M in cap space (Iggy, Tanguay) for around $7.5M (Lucic, Boychuk).

Oshie and Shattenkirk probably won't get moved and Pietrangelo definitely won't. Stewart could be had though.

Evening out the cap hits is the reason Iginla and Tanguay almost certainly won't be traded together. Those two aren't worth $10.5M in roster players at this point, unless you're talking about taking on bad contracts.

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#11 lannyhidesahairlip
April 01 2012, 02:33AM
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We bring back Theo Fleury as both coach and captain to inject some enthusiasm into the lineup. We are quickly becoming the western Maple Leafs. My family will not be renewing their season's tickets next year - it isn't so much the lack of talent as the uninspired "hockey" of the last several games. The only time we had some hustle this season was when we had half of Abbotsford wearing the flaming C, coincidentally winning enough games only for the injured millionaires to come back and fritter it away. It is time to trade out the lethargy, and it has to start, sadly, with our captain.

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#12 Willie Pless
April 01 2012, 07:51AM
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The Flames are in the $hithole.

Prediction - This is what the summer will look like. Much like the Oiler experience, the mamagement will go hard after the free agent market which is pi$$ poor this summer and discover that no high end Free Agent wants to come to the cold and the travel of the plumetting Flames. Yeah, maybe a mediocre Free Agent can be signed for a big overpayment of cash and term.

Feaster will find out that no one really wants to build a core around Iggy, Tanguay, JBo, etal. These are guys that are added at the deadline to tweak a cup run. Which ever playoff team tanks it due to leaky goal tending will be interested in Kipper. Feaster will spend most of the summer fielding offers for Sven.

We start the next season with the same core and a new coach - because "Coaching was really the problem all along". The tank job continues and the rebuild will start at the trade dead line a massive inch short and more than an season late.

Now we have to hope that next season does not get flushed over the new CBA and then we will be in the run for MacKinnon the Crosbyesque prospect from Cole Harbour. Finally a centre to play with Iggy!

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#13 Bruins
April 01 2012, 07:54AM
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It is time for ownership to stop conning the fans.This organization needs to be torn down from top to bottom starting with king, the coaching and also the scouting. Should probably give feaster a year or two as he was left with a mess....

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#14 Dave
April 01 2012, 08:11AM
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Sven - Backlund - Lucic/Rattie (or any other UFA) Ferland - Horak - Reinhart Tanguay - Jones - Glencross Nemisz - Bouma - Jackman

Gio - Butler Boychuk - UFA Smith - Brodie

Lines like this would get eaten up in the NHL. Backlund has not proven he's a #1 center. Sven has played 5 games, Ferland hasn't played any. Horak is a 3rd liner. Reinhart hasn't played any...

There is no way that this team would compete at all. They would get dominated and that is definatly not good for development.

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#15 Dave
April 01 2012, 08:28AM
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In my opinion the flames need to keep Kipper, bring Ramo in and play them 60/40 or even 50/50. Keep Boumeester, Gio, Butler as your Defense Core.

On the Offensive side they should keep Tanguey, Stajan (cause it's not worth it to move and a new coach might be good for him), Cammy, Moss, Glencross, Backlund.

That means they can get rid of Ollie (just not sign him or trade his rights, i don't really care), Iggy, stepniak, comeau, etc.

I think there would be enough holes for young guys to fill in without putting them in a situation that they are destined to fail.

does anyone know what the coaching options look like out there? Is Tippett available? Someone said that if Pheonix goes to Quebec then ROY will coach. I've been a huge fan of Tippett and would be very excited about him coming up. He's done wonders with a mediocre hockey team.

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#16 Dave
April 01 2012, 08:32AM
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Here is just a thought. I'd perfer a center prospect, but The Islanders desperatly need Vet Leadership, what about trading Iggy there for someone like grabner? (I doubt Iggy would want to go there though. NO chance of a cup on the island)

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#17 Dan Legault
April 01 2012, 08:57AM
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Hey Tim, pretty embarrassing huh? Nice record over the last 9 games. A team with an open door to the playoffs and they win one in regulation. Pretty embarrassing. Pretty embarrassing that it has come to a fan throwing his jersey onto the ice. Pretty embarrassing. Overall, this is a much more embarrassing situation than the PRV re-call situation with the Oilers. One that's not so much embarrassing since the Oilers had contacted the NHL and were given the direction that the NHL viewed it originally as OK.

But yet you haven't written an article ripping the Flames players for the embarrassment of shatting their pants when they a playoff spot all but handed to them with the way others were stumbling. They lost handily to the 29th and 30th place teams in the playoff fight. Now that is embarrassing. Write about your own teams failures. You are probably the type of guy, who if you were pulled over speeding, the first thing out of your mouth would be, " Well all the other vehicles on Deerfoot were going that fast too!". But no, you have to try to poke attention to the North to make up for your own failure/ fear or insecurities about your own team.

Enjoy being out of the playoffs, you'll see that for a long time to come. Then we will see which city has the true fanbase. 3 years of 30, ,30 and most likely 29th, and our barn is still full, every night, NOT throwing jerseys on the ice. I suspect you will have no trouble taking the family to games over the next few years, with the amount of non-renewals you will see. Better hope the medical system is in good shape, as I think Calgary will see many injured ankles and knees with the bandwagon emptying like the Titanic.

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#18 Fading Fan
April 01 2012, 09:22AM
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@Dave

No disrespect intended here, but I don't see why we would keep Moss. He loses the majority of his battles along the boards, has very little skill and doesn't bring much to the team. As far as J-Bo goes, the minutes this guy eats up compared to his point production make absolutely no sense. These 2 guys need to go. Give em away for all I care.

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#19 Greg
April 01 2012, 09:24AM
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@Willie Pless

Pretty much agree with your predictions. I was really hoping the rebuild would start at this year's deadline (although cant blame Feaster for standing pat given the signs of life the team was still showing) but we will realistically have to wait until next years deadline now. On the bright side, with Sven in the pocket, if we can get another good prospect this year, then pick up a bunch of extra picks next year, we'll have some cause for excitement again by next summer. The only thing I can think of that could possibly accelerate that would be landing parise this summer.

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#20 Dave
April 01 2012, 09:34AM
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Fading Fan wrote:

No disrespect intended here, but I don't see why we would keep Moss. He loses the majority of his battles along the boards, has very little skill and doesn't bring much to the team. As far as J-Bo goes, the minutes this guy eats up compared to his point production make absolutely no sense. These 2 guys need to go. Give em away for all I care.

I will concede on moss. He's injury prone too.

JBO is a shut down player, not an offensive defensman. If you expect JBO to get 20 goals or 40 points you'll be dissapointed. If you expect him to play 25 of the toughest min of every hockey game and carry his partner aswell then I think you'll be pleased with how he's turned out. He is also good at getting the puck out of the defensive zone either by skating or passing.

He is way overpaid but that also means the return for him would be way too low. I'm not sure which team would actually consider him and his contract while still giving the flames a worthwhile prospect/pick/ or roster player.

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#21 Reidja
April 01 2012, 10:16AM
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How do you think Iggy's value looks now VF? Much lower than last offseason after 43 goals.

He's of limited use as a lazy second line forward, he's retirement age, and gets paid $7MM. God help us. You would have to package a pick with him for Boston to take him. I would rather have Michael freaking Ryder on my team! Dave, you think we'll get Lucic?! What a joke! We would be lucky if someone takes him off our payroll for a 3rd!

Management really eff'ed this up and many on this site bought the steaming pile they served us at the start of the season. Including you VF. I remember being called down for suggesting that we overrate Iggy and should have traded him last off-season.

I was right all along. I hate being so right when it comes to the Flames. Here's a tip VF: Willie Pless has it about bang on above.

Eff' the world. I'm going to cheer for Van in the post season so I can try to enjoy watching this sport again.

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#22 Willie Pless
April 01 2012, 10:27AM
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@Reidja

Cheering for the Canucks? That's harsh. You're used to cheering for an underdog, try Ottawa.

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#23 Wille Pless
April 01 2012, 10:38AM
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@Greg

"The only thing I can think of that could possibly accelerate that would be landing parise this summer."

When you sell Parise on coming to a western team, what centre are you dangling in front of him to play with? Sorry to say but I think Parise is much to bright a guy to mire himself in this mess.

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#24 gussey
April 01 2012, 10:49AM
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I can see kipper getting traded to a contender for sure. I would like Karl Alzner, a 1st and 3rd fot him. Irving becomes the starter.. him and rammo share time once he comes over from russia. That would initiate the soft rebuild, kind of like ottawa.

I dont see fester getting iggys worth back. He might get a 1st and a prospect of some sort but is it really worth iggy. Id say if a steal of a deal came up id make the move for sure. I dont see a lot of good moves to be had. Flames players for the most part are over paid and underperform (other than kipper) and that dosent make for good deals.

Kind of like the one writer, I think I would just bring most of the team back and let them play out there contracts. Insert youth on a slow patient basis and accept that we are not going to contend for at least 3 years.

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#25 JR
April 01 2012, 11:24AM
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Canucks fan here. Props to whoever drew the adorable cartoon of the Canuck players.

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#26 Dave
April 01 2012, 11:33AM
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@Reidja

I definatly don't think we'd get Lucic for Iggy. I would love to get Krecji for Iggy but i don't even think that would happen. Boston doesn't need Iggy. The Rangers might take a stab at him. Maybe we'd get Dubinsky. I'd do that. I was quoting someone else. I don't believe Iggy's value to be too high. His value is so specific.

He'll have to go to a contender (cause of his NTC that's where he'll want to go).

A team that feels like they need Vet Leadership.

A team with lots of cap space or bad contracts they can send back our way.

A team that needs a pure goal scorer. I use the word pure meaning he isn't good at anything else.

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#27 DevoKnows
April 01 2012, 12:38PM
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Ya, I agree with Iggy being a rental. Not going to be a lot of demand for him now. Would have got the most for him at the deadline as a rental

Good Luck now

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#28 RKD
April 01 2012, 01:03PM
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Well another disappointing season. Three straight years of missing the playoffs is totally unacceptable.

Regardless if you think Brent is a good coach or not, under his tenure we didn't make the playoffs. We made the playoffs under Darryl, Playfair, and Keenan.

Don't know how much stock everyone puts in plus/minus but these numbers are atrocious: Bouwmeester -22, Jackman -20, Kostopoulos -15, Cammalleri -14, Glencross & Backlund -13, Jokinen & Hannan -12, Butler -11 and Iginla -9.

If you trade Iggy and Kipper you are looking at getting back 2 first round picks, 2 prospects and 2 roster players. This could set you up nicely for further down the road.

If you keep Iggy and Kipper, then they have to be mentors now and go into more supporting roles. Irving has play 20-25 games, no questions asked. Baertschi looks ready for top 2 line role. Sign another top 4 d-man. Start weeding aging pluggers and checkers and injury prone forwards.

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#29 Steve floor
April 01 2012, 01:26PM
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Hahaha... That sucks for you guys. At least the nicks will play in may again.

Cue the riot jokes!!!

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#30 Franklin
April 01 2012, 01:54PM
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@Dan Legault

Well said. Although I am shocked - SHOCKED I SAY - to hear a sensibly laid out argument was laughed out of such a open-minded forum.

And don't forgot - the Flames were the organization that fired Brian Sutter at the end of the 2000 season after another year of missing the playoffs. And yet he still ended up being one of the three finalists to be the new head coach for the following season.

Now that is embarrassing.

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#31 hark65
April 01 2012, 03:47PM
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@First Name Unidentified

You're joking right? Iggy isn't worth even half of what you're expecting as a return. We'll be lucky to get a 2nd rounder straight across for a guy who's best years are behind him. He's a 55 point player next year and that ain't worth much.

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#32 Franklin
April 01 2012, 04:24PM
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hark65 wrote:

You're joking right? Iggy isn't worth even half of what you're expecting as a return. We'll be lucky to get a 2nd rounder straight across for a guy who's best years are behind him. He's a 55 point player next year and that ain't worth much.

Correction:

He may only be a 55 point player but he's still making a $7M salary.

If he at least was making $4M a season with that cap hit there'd be cheapskate cap-floor teams interested in trading for him just to pay the least money possible. Or if he was set to be paid $7M but his cap hit was lower some contender like the Penguins might consider him. I say might.

Instead you'll have a tough time moving him at best. Bet Brayden Schenn looks good right about now.

Oh - and don't forget that Mike Cammalleri is still owed $14M for the next two years. If Iginla's a 55 point player next year, what the hell is MC?

Enjoy!

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#33 suba steve
April 01 2012, 05:08PM
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hark65 wrote:

You're joking right? Iggy isn't worth even half of what you're expecting as a return. We'll be lucky to get a 2nd rounder straight across for a guy who's best years are behind him. He's a 55 point player next year and that ain't worth much.

Agreed that Iggy's value is likely nowhere near what some are speculating, but your estimate is just as ridiculous on the low end. As a trade deadline rental, he may get you a good prospect like Cody Hodgson (what Van gave up for Zack Kassian) or a first plus a conditional draft choice in the following year. Perhaps we could get Tim Erixon from NYR...just kidding.

Ultimately, we would have been far better off moving him at this years deadline, but thats water under the bridge at this point.

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#34 Franklin
April 01 2012, 05:50PM
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@suba steve

Cody Hodgson was moved for another high-end, 1st round pick who was about the same age. You weren't going to get Cody Hodgson for Iggy.

At least pray the Flames either sh!t or get off the pot with Iggy sooner than later. Make him a Flame for life this summer or start looking at options. Because the last thing you want to see happen is have management decide to trade him 16 minutes before the trade deadline expires. That never yields very good results.

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#35 Kevin R
April 01 2012, 06:10PM
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Nice to see all the grave roobbers picking at the corpse with a finger is still twitching.

Best time to move Iggy now is at the trade deadline. His game usually heats up in Jan & Feb, his 7.0mill contract is no longer a determent & he will be one of the most covetted rental players available next year. If Gaustad & Quincey can get 1st rounders, well I do believe Iggy will get more than that. I would be money with you vultures on that. No, it wont be a lottery pick, but it will be a 1st rounder, & we will get a very good NHL ready prospect & probably another conditional pick as well, depending how far that team goes in the playoffs. Whats wrong with that return. Kipper & Iggy would constitute a huge blow up around these parts but they are only 2 players & I think Calgary do have other pieces that are decent players & will step up as we rebuild.

Franklin, every team has a laughable embarassing moment, I'm sure in the last 12 years you do too.

Mr Legault, VF obviously upset you & you are angry. We usually suggest to upset touchy Oiler fans to either just stay away from Flame sites or just take your tricycle & peddle north up Derrfoot Trail, it will make you feel better.

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#36 suba steve
April 01 2012, 06:16PM
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Franklin wrote:

Cody Hodgson was moved for another high-end, 1st round pick who was about the same age. You weren't going to get Cody Hodgson for Iggy.

At least pray the Flames either sh!t or get off the pot with Iggy sooner than later. Make him a Flame for life this summer or start looking at options. Because the last thing you want to see happen is have management decide to trade him 16 minutes before the trade deadline expires. That never yields very good results.

I see Hodgson as something like Backlund--having trouble living up to all the hype (as well as injury issues). So I think it is not unreasonable to assume Iggy could yield such a return under the right conditions.

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#37 non descript
April 01 2012, 06:59PM
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you've all got it wrong. just a tweak here and there next year and the flames will be fighting for eigth again. on a lighter, and much funnier note, sometime next season bouwmeester should set the all time record for regular season games played without appearing in an nhl playoff game. now if that's not a guy you want playing 25 of the toughest minutes in a game, i don't know who is.

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#38 Jeff Lebowski
April 01 2012, 07:05PM
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I think the big asset to move is Bouwmeester. Of the UFA and RFA I'd keep Jones and Hannan.

Detroit, Philly, Dallas, Minny, Nashville might be willing to get Bouwmeester for various reasons.

I like how Bouwmeester plays but on this team he doesn't put up the offensive numbers. On a more talented team he might. I think Brodie is ready for a more prominent role but if you trade Jay I would like to see a hardnosed low salaried shut down d come back. Let Gio and Hannan take top pairing and let Butler slide to 2nd or 3rd. Gio Hannan Brodie Butler Smith Babchuk Up front: Bartschi Backlund Byron Tanguay Cammy Iggy Glencross Stajan Jones ?? Horak Jackman

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#39 negrilcowboy
April 01 2012, 08:08PM
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the rebuild is going to be very difficult at best. the diminsihed assets are now much more less desirable. iggy may get you a late round first, or a package of second tier help. kipper gives you some leverage, but the reality is you may have to move gio or jbo in order to gain the biggest returns. iggies 7 million scares away many teams,particularily if his scoring dries up. a second or third unit winger with no defensive upside isnt exactly a big commodity. a year too late, and a cap dollar short.

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#40 negrilcowboy
April 01 2012, 08:08PM
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the rebuild is going to be very difficult at best. the diminsihed assets are now much more less desirable. iggy may get you a late round first, or a package of second tier help. kipper gives you some leverage, but the reality is you may have to move gio or jbo in order to gain the biggest returns. iggies 7 million scares away many teams,particularily if his scoring dries up. a second or third unit winger with no defensive upside isnt exactly a big commodity. a year too late, and a cap dollar short.

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#41 Franko j
April 01 2012, 09:39PM
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lannyhidesahairlip wrote:

We bring back Theo Fleury as both coach and captain to inject some enthusiasm into the lineup. We are quickly becoming the western Maple Leafs. My family will not be renewing their season's tickets next year - it isn't so much the lack of talent as the uninspired "hockey" of the last several games. The only time we had some hustle this season was when we had half of Abbotsford wearing the flaming C, coincidentally winning enough games only for the injured millionaires to come back and fritter it away. It is time to trade out the lethargy, and it has to start, sadly, with our captain.

I agree with the fact about the lethargy and self-satisfying attitude the players on the Flames. However, I think Fleury has other interests other than playing hockey. As for his credentials as a coach for the team I'm not keen because he hasn't coached at any other level. I believe there is other coaches out there with better qualifications. As for an injection of youth and vibrancy it is coming in the form of Sven Baertschi. It is time for the Flames to move out the old and bring in some new.

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#42 Franko J
April 01 2012, 09:57PM
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If it is true about the rumor of "amnesty" in the next collective bargaining agreement - --- I wondering who Calgary would move out? Stajan or Babchuck.

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#43 Justin Azevedo
April 01 2012, 11:25PM
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@non descript

yes because there's not 19 other guys on a team.

seriously, people, stop talking about this. it's a horrible, meaningless piece of information. florida sucked before he was there and after he left and the flames were the recipients of bad luck the past two seasons before this one.

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#45 Nolan Moore
April 02 2012, 01:25AM
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Some of you are really delusional about certain UFA's coming here. Or getting a 1st, roster player AND a prospect for Iggy and Kipper. The most youre getting for them is a First OR a prospect. Sutter still a good coach? His brother, Playfair and Keenan all made the playoffs. Brent with basically same team took them down to out for 3 years. I dont know about u but if an NFL team made the playoffs for 5 years then a new coach came in and for 3 years didnt make it, he'd be gone regardless. Good coaches use the strengths of the players. Bad coaches coach the only way they know how and force players to play that way. Brent didnt coach with what he had. He tried to take the team and have him play his way. Didnt work all the time. Who would have thought that Ottawa or St. Louis would be where they are? Are Maclean and Hitch lucky coaches? No they're good coaches. Lastly, i watched the game on CBC's website today (was out all saturday) and wow, no push back , just bad plays. Real amateur.

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#46 everton fc
April 02 2012, 07:34AM
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Everyone's posting an opinion. Might as well join the fray!

Nolan's post is a fair one. But I think the obvious is that are players are not good enough. Some will cry, "Injuries killed us." Perhaps. But we seemed to get worse when all the players we thought would get us into the playoffs came back from injury. When we used the scrubs... We seemed to get some energy. Some results.

To me, the only solution to the organizations woes is to take an absoltue new approach... which means letting both GM and coach go down the road. That's the start. Bring in a better duo, and have them assess the players... Including Iggy... Kipper... They'll do a better job than the current tandem, me thinks...

I'd say dump King, too, but it seems he's untouchable. So why even discuss it?

I think Boumweester, like Jokinen, as re-invented his game. It's been effective most nights. But the price tag remains outrageous. If you can move him, I think you do.

As for Iggy... A more limited role on the 2nd line makes sense, with Tanguay and Cammy. Cammy centres that line... though I think we are paying too much for the smallish Cammy, and would consider moving him, as well, to a contender, if at all possible.

We could go on and on... All of us... We'll find out soon enough who stays, and who's going. I still think you start w/the GM who promised a lot, and didn't deliver.

Then the coach... some staff...

A complete rebuild. Top down. Fans will be patient if we bring in the right GM & coach. Check out what Jon Cooper and John Hynes are doing in the AHL. Amongst others. And check out all the qualified Asst GMs... And I'm not including Nill in this one.

All better than Feaster, in my opinion. All looking for a shot to run their own team.

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#47 rubbertrout
April 02 2012, 09:38AM
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These boys are playing like they have no pride.

Vintage, if the comments are moderated and we have to act as though our mother is watching does that not also apply to the banner pic? Incidentally, I love it.

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#48 kittensandcookies
April 02 2012, 09:42AM
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@Justin Azevedo

Yeah, those Panthers are doing horrible, why they're only in third place in the conference... WHAT!?!?

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#49 Kevin R
April 02 2012, 09:47AM
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the-wolf wrote:

What a difference it makes being viewed as 33 and scoring 43 goals vs. being viewed as a 30 goal scorer turning 35.

This is exactly why I advocated striking while the iron was hot last year. Good trades are as much about timing as anything. I truly believe that LA would've parted with Schenn for Iggy a year ago. How good would Voynov have looked here? Now, with Richards and Carter there, a team once desperate for proven offense and rich in prospects is off the table.

Still, there are always clubs that will pay a premium to get a proven goal scorer vs the potential risk of a draft pick or even a lower level prospect. They will also pay to keep that player away from other teams.

So to say that that there wouldn't be a lot of interest in Iginla is pure folly. That said, his value over the course of 1 year has dropped considerably.

IMO, he's worth a 'B-level' prospect and a 1st round pick in the 11-20 range.

In other words, the risk in moving Iginla has gone up, but I'd rather gamble on a pick and the best prospect the team can get their hands on then have a player here that will probably score 30 goals again on a team that will probably miss the playoffs again. Iginla is not a mentor or role model type, so there's no value in keeping him.

If we can have Ramo come over (though I've heard he wants to finish next year there) and Irving split duties with him, then move Kipper too. The team will drop several places in the standings and we will secure a higher draft pick for the summer of 2013.

This has been a sharp lesson in why you don't run a hockey club based on nostalgia or delusions of grandeur. Running a club based on the idea that you can scratch into 8th and then "anything can happen, (ie. 'hope')" because it did once, is stupid.

I think George Johnson is saying what we've been preaching in the Herald today. We dont owe Iggy anything, he has been handsomely rewarded & we have been rewarded with a great future hall of famer back. But its time to do what's best for the organization. Many here are really undervaluing him but you are right, we could have gotten an insane package for him a few years ago. As much as we all like to bash Daryl Sutter, myself included, I was talking with an alumni a last year & the word was that Daryl wanted to trade Iggy after crapping the bed in 2010 but many were terrified he would have gotten fleeced like he did with Phaneuf. Feaster was brought in that summer.

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#50 icedawg_42
April 02 2012, 09:57AM
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everton fc wrote:

Everyone's posting an opinion. Might as well join the fray!

Nolan's post is a fair one. But I think the obvious is that are players are not good enough. Some will cry, "Injuries killed us." Perhaps. But we seemed to get worse when all the players we thought would get us into the playoffs came back from injury. When we used the scrubs... We seemed to get some energy. Some results.

To me, the only solution to the organizations woes is to take an absoltue new approach... which means letting both GM and coach go down the road. That's the start. Bring in a better duo, and have them assess the players... Including Iggy... Kipper... They'll do a better job than the current tandem, me thinks...

I'd say dump King, too, but it seems he's untouchable. So why even discuss it?

I think Boumweester, like Jokinen, as re-invented his game. It's been effective most nights. But the price tag remains outrageous. If you can move him, I think you do.

As for Iggy... A more limited role on the 2nd line makes sense, with Tanguay and Cammy. Cammy centres that line... though I think we are paying too much for the smallish Cammy, and would consider moving him, as well, to a contender, if at all possible.

We could go on and on... All of us... We'll find out soon enough who stays, and who's going. I still think you start w/the GM who promised a lot, and didn't deliver.

Then the coach... some staff...

A complete rebuild. Top down. Fans will be patient if we bring in the right GM & coach. Check out what Jon Cooper and John Hynes are doing in the AHL. Amongst others. And check out all the qualified Asst GMs... And I'm not including Nill in this one.

All better than Feaster, in my opinion. All looking for a shot to run their own team.

"As for Iggy... A more limited role on the 2nd line makes sense, with Tanguay and Cammy. Cammy centres that line... though I think we are paying too much for the smallish Cammy, and would consider moving him, as well, to a contender, if at all possible"

While I agree in principle with this sentiment at a pure hockey level, keep in mind that would be 15.5 million cap bucks getting 'limited' ice on your second line? Who is your first line then? I cant agree more with everyone who says this team needs to look drastically different before we'll see some success. I may be pessimistic but I don't see how they are going to get any returns or win any deals with the pieces they have to move. Honestly I see this trending even further down. The Flames could well be a lottery team in the next couple years. The term on Cammi (and Tanguay - as I said at the time) is a big mistake and a big step backwards. I like them both as players, but seriously this is a repeat of the problems that have plagued the Flames for the last 3 years.

Oh - and I don't care how bad it gets around here I will NEVER cheer for the Vancouver CaSUCKS!!! In fact I think i'll jump back on the Bruins bandwagon - though I could see the Penguins going all the way now.

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