VOICE OF THE NATION - The Feaster Identity
Vintage Flame
April 16 2012 01:17PM
"We have a very, very busy off-season ahead of us," said Feaster, adding that he didn't want to talk about individual players or members of the coaching staff at this point. "It's clear that we need to make changes. We're going to have to do a number of things in the off-season, because this is not a situation that I want to be in next year.” - Jay Feaster
A pretty bold and emphatic statement coming from the GM whilst bidding the Flames season adieu in front of local fans and media. Some will take what Jay said as an encouraging realization as to the changes that need to happen, while others will ignore them as hollow posturing. Those that look to the latter will say that it doesn’t matter what Feaster said that day, or any day this off-season because in the end, when Ken King and Murray Edwards speak, Jay Feaster listens.
Regardless of which side of the argument you support, one thing both can agree on is, what is Feaster’s identity with this organization?
THE GENERAL MANAGER
He was named acting GM on December 28th 2010, and then named full-time GM on May 16th 2011, but now that the regular season has concluded for the Calgary Flames, Jay Feaster can finally start acting like the true General Manager of this organization.
It is time for him to take this from Darryl’s team to his team.
Putting his stamp on the Flames isn’t going to be easy - he’s already under the microscope from many. In fact, most of those mentioned are already screaming for his head. Is it fair given the circumstances Feaster has had to operate under in his first year? Maybe not, but since when is life fair; and like the management likes to remind the fan base so often, it’s a business. With somewhere in the neighborhood of 80% of revenue directly coming from the fan base, they believe they can say what they want, when they want, and have no problem naming themselves judge, jury and executioner.
If anything that should put the fans on common ground with Jay, since they are three roles he will have to familiarize himself with rather quickly. When he took “control” of this team, he wasn’t really tasked with having to deal with the roster in its whole, rather he did what he said was his best; mostly trying to keep the team functional and competitive when the injury spree hit.
Now it’s a different story.
Now the restraints have been removed and he is clear to do what he wants regarding ten UFA’s and six RFA’s, not to mention, about 18 million in cap space.
"I'll be sitting down with Ken King and ownership and I will be reviewing every player in the organization and every member of the hockey operation staff and I'll be making recommendations as it relates to players and staff and coaches." - Jay Feaster
A pretty common phrase heard amongst GM’s when their season has come to an end, but in regards to Feaster there are ambiguous implications. Does Jay tell King and the owners what direction he thinks the team should go in and then wait to see if he gets the go ahead, or permission as it were, to make said moves; because that’s what many of the fans, and those around the league seem to think.
”Of all the Canadian teams in the National Hockey League, I thinks it’s widely perceived that no ownership group, led by Murray Edwards and Ken King, have as much say in the direction the hockey operations department goes. All owners have some input in terms of how a General Manager goes about his business. But I would say that in Calgary, that emphasis is much greater from ownership than it is from the General Manager.”
- Bob Mackenzie (TSN)
Feaster has maintained that there is absolutely no unusual interference from the President or any member of ownership, which is great except for the fact that no one believes that statement to be true. I’m not saying Jay is lying to the public, but a half-truth sounds a lot better than him outright telling people he is not the decision maker when it comes to the team’s two largest factors - which is something the public would just never hear come from any GM.
What Feaster did tell the media is that he has never brought a deal forward that has been blocked by either King or ownership. What exactly does that mean Jay? If you make these claims absolving ownership, then why are there so many reputable sources saying otherwise? Are they all lying? Maybe Jay isn’t lying at all, perhaps no deal has ever been blocked because Jay has never mentioned the idea of trading Iginla or Kiprusoff to the owners. By that notion, then no there has not been any interference because that limitation has yet to be tested.
PUT YOUR MARK ON IT!
Putting the numbers aside, what I am most anxious to see this off-season is what kind of man is Jay Feaster? As a lawyer he is very good with words and he is very easy to listen to when he stands up on his pulpit and makes his address to the masses.
What I’m hoping is that he is not just selling the fans a line because as of now we have seen both sides of the coin and so far neither one has been a winner. What I mean is that we all saw the man who with bold and ill-advised confidence guarantee a playoff appearance from this team, we have seen the rant on national television guaranteeing that if things didn’t shape up within games that there were drastic changes coming. Unforunately, neither one of those things happened. We also saw a dismayed and contrite man that shouldered the entire blame for not having those guarantees fulfilled, and with that the admission of failure and a realization that they need to explore other avenues.
Brent Sutter realized that necessity immediately, and was fired for his epiphany. "If a decision is made that they want Brent Sutter to come back as coach, I will do some things different because I believe in that," Sutter said. "It might not be pleasant and it might upset some people, but I think it's at that point where there really has to be an awareness about where we're at and where we're going and how we're going to get there." That doesn’t evoke a lot of confidence for those fans that hope the Flames are finally ready to make a serious change.
If the owners live under the stigma of being happy as long as they are making money, then what makes Feaster happy? After being out of hockey for two years is he happy just to have a job or does he really want to that feeling back that he had with Tampa Bay in 2004, when he was part of a championship? His words make me lean towards the latter, but actions speak louder than words and so far they lean to the former.
Does Jay Feaster have it in him to finally test the last two limitations that are preventing him from putting his stamp on this team? Is he going to play it safe and be content in collecting his paycheck, or does he have the spine to go to ownership and tell them exactly how it is and why it is time for this team to move on in terms of Jarome Iginla and Miikka Kiprusoff? I don’t want a GM that is going to mention in it in session where they are just spit-balling ideas either. He said he was going to sit with them and review every player and make recommendations, so do just that.
If the man is afraid of speaking his mind in fear of losing his job, then any sense of pride should have him resign immediately and just let King run this team in the open, but if he truly wants to see this team accomplish something and not have to go through this whole song and dance next year, then he will fight to put his mark on this organization and he will do it.
That is of course provided he even wants to turn this team around...
Feaster is helpless. There is no point piling up expectations on him. The only deals he has free reigns on are the likes of signing of Jackman, etc. I don't think he can even call up Aliu and Wilson from the AHL without taking permission from KK and Edwards.
I'm going to say this again: There is no coach, in my opinion, in this league that can coach this team as long as Iginla is around. Brent is a good coach and we will all very soon see him enjoy great success with the Oilers (or anywhere else).
There is no hope for us hardcore Flames fans. We are doomed to mediocrity. The owners are happy raking in cash, why change?
Change? You talking about change?
Feaster has yet to show that he is anything but a 'yes' man for Ken King. So far, he has executed pretty much the company line, keep the status quo, keep up the pretence that this team is 'good enough', just not 'lucky' enough to make the playoffs, we should 'retool' not rebuid.
This will be a telling off sesaon, is Feaster his own man, or are we going to have another run with pretty much the same group, plus or minus some minor UFA moves.
The feeling seems to be that Coach Sutter wanted more radical off season changes than Feaster, which just might be a major tell on how the off season will unfold.
Great article VF! Not as many fancy psychological and other terms used as Esquire Wilson's recent article but great nonetheless! I also wonder if Mr Feaster is truly unshackled and is allowed to make big changes as backed up by his impressive hockey ops team. My feeling is the owners and Ken King are not intellectually honest and will not allow an Iggy trade which is too bad given potentially strong returns for him, there reasons being that just in case it blows up on them and they are personally vilified, it may be hard to live in Calgary. However given salary-cap relief I would say the team can finally build around him and if that take big bucks to get Parise (my favorite form this list) or Suter or Semin or Carle or Wideman or even trade for Stasny or other young forward Or solid D talent, the spend that darn $$ and improve the team while the owners will still see jersey, ticket,and other revenues increase enough to pay for those guys. And playoff revenues, if acheived, will be icing on the money-cake for Edwards and co! Re-tool with young prospects, and signing FA's via money and convincing them Flames really want to win the Cup!!
Agree with the article whole hearted. But still firmly believe that Kipersoff should not go anywhere!!!! A goalie is the basis of a good team moving forward.
Well written boss, keep em coming
Agree that your goaltender is a particularily important part of any team. However, if you keep Kipper, what do you expect to see happen in the future? How many more above average seasons do you expect out of him? Are the playoffs a real posibility for this team in the next few years? Do you need to mortgage the future (eg. trade Sven) to get back to the playoffs next year? Are the Flames willing to do that? I hope not!
Kipper could play on my team any day, as long as the goal is to try to win a championship. I don't see that as a realistic goal in this city, at this time. If we got Parise, and Suter this summer I might change my strategy. But, realistically, we are not getting Suter or Parise this summer. Kipper is propping this team up and in doing so is costing us the chance to draft higher and thus slowing the inevitable rebuild. Time to deal yesterday's stars for a shot at drafting tomorrow's.
Agree lots with Steve's post. One thing to consider for those who think Sutter moving on is indicative of status quo & retool(basically Bartsche), dont kid yourself. B Sutter had 3 years & did not perform, in the world of sports, thats a death sentence. He said he would do things differently if he came back, why didnt he this year? Anyone see changes in his coaching at any point this year? To me it was the same smashing a square peg into a round hole. Next!
I dont know if Feaster is the one to finally make the big bold changes needed here, but I for one, will give him a chance to do so this offseason. There were a lot of reasons that last year here went down the way it did. Personally, we actually did way better than what I thought we would given the number of new & younger faces in our line up. The change is coming, it has to, another crappy year next & does anyone honestly think Iggy is sticking around to be a centre piece of a rebuild when he becomes a UFA?? Really, I hope this Iggy gong show is over this summer or no later than next trade deadline, but it will for sure be done July 1 2013.
I see Ferland has joined the Heat for their playoff run. I'll be interested to hear how he does in the AHL.
As for Feaster, if he takes the Flames in the direction that he took the Lightning (cup aside) the I don't think fans will be all that enthused about his reign and any failures of his may only serve to buy Ken King more time at the helm.
Time will tell, but I agree that this summer is a significant opportunity for Feaster to display some GM talent and proactively alter the look of the team.
Hey Flames Fans, Have a read on the following article -
http://oilersnation.com/2012/4/13/the-mirage-of-contention
I wanted to post this in hopes that someone in Flamesville will try and talk some sense in Mr.Feaster because he's putting a good ol' Edmonton by Iginla in a hard spot. Iginla is far too classy a player to ask for a trade. With Feasters grand plan to do absolutely nothing - Jarome will sadly spend his last days as a Flame floundering in mediocrity. Trust me Flamers fans, Ther Oilers did nothing for years too stubborn to rebuild. We know now that DID NOT work. All the best!
The article was posted on FN as well.
It certainly is a good read, and as a fellow Oiler fan it strikes to the heart of why Oiler fans, in my opinion, are so patient and excited about the current state of the team, despite what those outside the city may feel.
@suba steve
I expect to see very little change in the status quo if the Flames keep Kipper or Iginla, that's why I'm a big proponent of trading both of them.. now.
Absolutely not. Even if the Flames were dumb enough to trade Bärtschi, there is no way they are a playoff contender next season. Why mortgage the next 10-15 years of Bärtschi's career to give Kipper and Iginla another 1 or 2 years on a team that is going nowhere with them?
Amen!
I make it a point to not read Brownlee's articles.
Once again though I feel it necessary to defend Feaster a bit. Realistically there was very little expectation that Jay was going to turn this team around this passed season. he was severely handcuffed with contracts and NTC's.
As I said this off-season he is going to be under the microscope by fans and I'm sure by ownership. I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now, but if the Flames go into next season without significant change, then people are going to be finding the closest flag pole to hang Jay from.
@MC Hockey
Thankyou :)
There is the room to re-tool with Iginla and Kipper still on the roster if you look at the room they have under the cap.. then again it's like your grandpa getting new dentures.. You really going to celebrate with a big ol' steak? Not likely.
Everyone loves Iggy for what he has done for this city, the same goes for Kipper. I can't see any one true fan holding a grudge if they go play for another team (unless it's Vancouver). There is no logical reasoning where Iggy and a Flames re-build coexist. It would be nice, but I prefer to remember the Iggy of 2004 than to see him toil away here while the team continues to get younger and the fans get more and more bitter.
Hey Vf and all, Don't you thnk Iggy would actually fit well either in Vancouver but even moreso in Edmonton given his St. albert birthplace and his family's likely wish to stay in low-tax Alberta? Can't you see Iggy scoring 80-90 points again playing with some of Edmonton's young studs? So how about the #1 overall pick plus something else for Iggy? I know it will never happen with Edmonton but me can wonder!
@Vintage Flame
I think your right in saying that Feaster's hands were largely tied last off season, and I will also be waiting for the end of the season before I judge his performance. That said, one thing that has been bugging me is Feaster's assertion that he would build a winning team differently. He claimed that the Flames would remain competive every year and continue to improve. While, I believe this can be true and some teams have had success (ie San Jose and Detroit), this line of thinking scares me where the Flames are concerned. I say this because, Flames management may be willing to perpetually sell the future for the current campaign, in the false belief that they can win. So, a rewind of 2009 to today.
I agree with you. Don't read Brownlee's articles.
Sutter is a good coach but if he did not agree with the direction of the team then move on.
As far as moving players out because they are on the backside of their NHL careers at this point, don't agree. The return for Iginla and Kipper is not attractive enough to move them. History has shown in the past you do not win a trade by moving star players out. Besides the Joe Niewendyk trade name who we got for Macinnis, Suter, Gilmour, Fluery, Vernon, Hull, St Louis, etc. Most times it doesn't work out.
If management is taking this approach I completely support it. Calgary liquidated those stars in the early 90's that should have set Calgary up for years to come instead it amounted to sevens dark years of missing the playoffs.
I can't say I blame the owners for not wanting to get burned again.
Yeah he would probably be a fit in either of those teams... He would probably be a fit on most teams in the NHL, but there is no way Edm gives up that 1st pick overall for Iggy when he's 35 years old... But I like your thinking
@ChinookArch
You know CA, I was thinking of that possibility as well but the way I look at it, there is no scenario where the Flames can have their cake and eat it too. Not this time.
If Feaster wants to build this team in a different way, then logically that means that most things have to change. With so many UFA's, again if he chooses a new direction, I can't see him being able to bring everyone along, even if he wanted to; it would just grind everything to a halt.
He can call it a re-tooling if he makes only a few deals, but if they include Iggy and/or Kipper, that's a re-build for sure. There's no one foot in the water this summer.
Good post VF. Any opinions on what Ferland can possibly do in Abby this post-season? Maybe our youth ain't so bad. We NEED to do something other than get a new coach this season. Iginla/Kipper has to be dealt. Mind you, not both because we're not looking to throw ourselves back into the pre- 2003-2004 Dark Ages of No Playoffs for Eternity, but at least one of them needs to go.
Kipper is the one that holds the most value for a team on the brink of the playoffs such as Washington who needs an actual goalie. Or Winnipeg or someone like that. We need to try and get another first rounder at this year's draft. By the way it's highly unlikely that the Flames will send Iggy to Vancouver because I just don't think he wants to play for that team. I could actually see him in Edmonton quite possibly because he was born somewhere aroudn there. Cheers to a good 2012 draft.
Iggy for Edmonton's 1st, Hall and RNH. Good deal ... What ... Not enough... OK plus next year's first. How delusional can you get.
That was quite the bold article VF. I think we need to trade Iggy and NOT Kipper to change the leadership in the locker room. No shots on goal in a must win game in the last week of the season is not leading by example!
The fear is that what we might get back is a top 6 forward and a first round pick but very low in the first round cause Iggy will want to go to a contender. I don't know about you but that is not good enough in return. That leaves Kipper as our best asset and will probably bring the most return. Considering how many years Kipper has stood on his head and given all he has for the Flames it would be sad to see him go. On the other hand I don't want to see Kipper lower his goals against average in games we still lose because this team can't score goals!
It is time the Flames start addressing the real issues with an "inconsistent" team instead of throwing the coaches under the bus. The players and management need to shoulder much of the responsibility. It is time for change and big changes. Hopefully Feaster has the fortitude to make the bold changes!
If the intent of this article is to make me furious with Ken King, mission accomplished. Nothing worse than a suit telling the GM how to build a hockey team. Grrrr. Shame on all you season ticket holders who renewed.
@Austin
Thanks Austin;
I am curious to see how Ferland does in Abby, he is a bigger body at 6'2" and 208 lbs, coming off his best offensive output. Considering the kid didn't start playing hockey until the age of 14, I am skeptical to say just what his ceiling is yet. The call up to Abby is no doubt going to benefit him in that he gets a jump on spending time with Troy Ward. Reinhart got 2 goals in his first game and by no means am I comparing the two, but I am anxious to see what he does with the Heat.
Sorry Derzie..
It's not so much to make you angry with King, though I suspect it doesn't take much to get the fans going when it comes to the President. More-so, it was a plea to Feaster to show the fans he can put his money where his mouth is and if he can stand up to the ownership group, King included, for what is best for this team and ultimately the organization. ;)
Its been a long time since I have posted, but I read all the time! I am more active in the off season because its more bouncing ideas wheras in the regular season i'm repeating the same message over and over.
I like the article, but a large part of me believes that us fans will be disappointed. I don't think the ownership is smart enough to re-build. I think they go for it one more time, draft in the middle, get nothing in return for out major assets. Its a bleak picture in my mind.
But I did put in a RTO for the draft, I hope, and hope so hard, that I see us trading Iggy & kipper. I like all flames fans love them, but tis time to move on. Just because I believe its bleak doesn't mean i don't wish its better!
Dude, why are you always trolling around here? Go read Brownlee's articles at Oilers Nation. And enjoy finishing behind the Flames again next year
Ken King and Murray Edwards are the puppet masters and Jay Feaster is the puppet.
I believe Feaster has gone to King and Edwards with a presentation outlining one scenario in which the Flames would trade Iginla and the other scenario in which they keep them.
Edwards and King have probably shot this down before many times and probably will again whenever Jay makes his next pitch to them in a scenario without Iginla.
If he resigns Jokinen for multiple years with a NTC and other players we could do without then you know it will be more of the same.
If he lets Jokinen, Moss, Sarich, Hannan, Stempniak, etc. all walk then it might be a different story. It also depends on who he adds in the offseason. I would love to get a top 2 d-man, but would be happy if they sign another top 4 d-man. I do want to see another top six forward or two.
If Feaster can get players to compliment guys like Irving, Baertschi, Brodie, etc., then I feel this team would be moving in the right direction.
A lot 'if's', but time will tell.
Please let's not cry Feaster a river. He is doing exactly what he was brought in to do. I'm always suspect of promoting assistant coaches or assistant GMs. It's never a clean break or fresh start. Feaster got his job in TB the same way he did in YYC, except w/ the Lightning the team was stacked from the get go so he had success. When it came time to actually put his stamp on the Lightning he failed miserably to the point they were eventually drafting #1 a couple of years later. It was quite swift too...and that was before OK Hockey too over. Whenever Flames ownership decides to do the right thing and bring in the right hockey people, the team will be on the right track. Unfortunately, that is not likely to happen anytime soon.
Oh Reinhart is out of the playoffs in the WHL as well? I'd like to see an Abby line of Ferland, Reinhart, and another decent center prospect. Well it looks like Darryl Sutter may have been exceptionally skilled at drafting future NHLers....just not top 9 players hahaha. I still hope to see them crack the top 9 in the next coming 3 years.
The #1 pick PLUS something for Iggy?!?!!! This is the problem, people put Iggy's value unrealistically high.
The Oilers wouldn't trade the #1 pick for Iggy and Baertschi. You want their #1 AND something else for Iggy... Wow. You obviously have no idea how hard it is to get a #1 overall pick. It takes a solid year of pure sucking, and then some luck to win or hold the lottery.
There is no combination of players on the Flames that the Oilers would trade that #1 for.
Thats my problem here. We have 2 assets that ownership won't trade, but even if they do they won't get us much. Kipper might, but Iggy is getting us draft picks and prospects (and not a top 10 pick never mind the #1 overall!!)
Which leaves us with UFAs. What if Feaster strikes out? Why would Parise or Suter come here? The league is so even that money doesn't matter anymore, so it comes down to a flashy city and more importantly contention. Calgary isn't NYCity or LA, and we just aren't anything close to a contender. So I'd say the chances of getting Suter OR Parise are less than zero.
Feaster needs to gets some cahones, trade Iggy for a few middling draft picks (late 1st rounder + 2nd rounder). Same with Kipper. Then bunker down and ride it out for a few years while we wait for our current prospects to come along, and hopefully one of the new draft picks to be a diamond in the rough.
So I just read Brent's comments in today's Sun...
Apparently, Brent wanted to make some wholescale changes to the dressing room... Long-term moves... And Feaster seems to have wanted to stay the course more. Did anyone else get this impressions rather strongly?
So... Do we all think there should be wholescale changes in the room (I think most do), or, are we all like Feaster, who apparently still thinks we are not far off the mark??
Hearing all the comments about Brent from Lowe and others at Team Canada... Makes me wonder if we got rid of the wrong guy - if Feaster should have been punted, and Brent retained, with an emphasis on moving Jarome, as I don't think Brent would have agreed on moving Kipper now. Thoughts?
Seems the professional hockey world has a high regard for Brent. And look what Darryl's doing w/the Kings.
Perhaps Brent should have become GM here, and Feaster kicked to the curb?
I am just rambling... For I think when Brent lands on his feat, back behind and NHL bench, he will do quite well, like Darryl has done thus far. I think Nelson gets the Oilers job if Tenney is 86'd... But I also think Brent would do well in that current situation, and has a much better room w/Smyth and Horcroff in there, then we do down here w/Jarome.
@ KingJafi
Spot on. Never forget the damage Feaster did to the Bolts with the insance contract to Richards, which he planned to duplicate here, and the out-of-bounds contract for Lecavlier. Feastger put all his salary in three players (St. Louis the third), and the Bolts were hamstrung.
Feaster's continued reliance on players he worked w/in the past (Modin, almost-Richards, Jones), quite frankly scares me. I wonder if Brent could have got this team into the playoffs if the GM was more supportive? Clearly, from today's article, it seems Feaster was not going to support Sutter, so he could find his own coach. Which I guess makes sense, if you're Feaster and want to put your stamp on this team.
Trouble is, what does a Feaster team look like? He inherited a good team in Tampa. Not so good here, and he did nothing to imprive it (Reinhart and Ferland being Darryl picks - seems we drafted awful small last summer).
@Vintage
I think Ferland will prove his worth in Abby. Hopefully we keep our eye on his teammate in Brandon, defenceman Eric Roy, whose draft-eligible in 2013. Brandon is producing some nice players.
As far as UFA's go, Feaster has shown w/the Richards offer, he is willing to pay outrageous money to players who may not deserve it. He won't get Parise or Suter, but he'll offer something obsence to some second tier UFA and maybe get one, albeit at an inflated price.
See Babchuk's contract, if you need more evidence of the direction I think we're headed. Clearly, Brent didn't want Babchuk. And seems to have wanted Iggy moved, as did Darryl (wonder what would have became of Darryl here if he could have actually moved Iginla for a decent return?)
I should add I have no faith in Feaster's next coaching choice. If it's Ward, who I like... it won't work w/Feaster as GM.
Rant over.
Brent at least kept a team of also-rans and minor leaguers close. When the vets came back from injury, and the youngsters sent back to Abby and Portland... We tanked. Plain and simple.
(Anyone have any idea how Brent felt about Jokinen?)
Oiler fan or not, diehard was simply pointing out that the thought of trading Iggy straight up for Nail Yakupov is completely nutts. Iggy plus Sven might get the conversation going. And no, I am not advocating that trade, just making a point.
@Kypreos
Agreed that SOME of the Flames past experience at trading stars has been bad. Phaneuf was bad, Gilmour was the worst.
But some of the players moved in the past worked out well for this team. As you mentioned Iggy for Niewy was a home run. Fleury gained us Regehr and more. Suter gained us an underperforming Nylander as well as James Patrick. Moving Hull (ouch) gained us Walmsley and Rob Ramage, who had a direct hand in winning the cup in 1989. Would the Flames have won with Hull? Impossible to say.
My point is that some of the stars traded away still leave their mark on the organization in the assets they were traded for. Kent Nilson begat Niewy who begat Iggy. Nilson made the move from Atlanta, and his legacy lives on in Iggy,30 years later. Lets keep that ball rolling, while we still have the opportunity.
@Kurt
Agreed. I offer my opinion on FN about the value of Iginla because I value the opinions of those outside the Oilers sphere of influence in order to balance expectations. For many years Oiler fans overvalued players like Smyth, Horcoff, Hemsky, and others. The influx of real elite talent as well as the utter collapse of the previous roster has helped to temper those expectations.
Many Flames fans will cite Iginla as a great leader, an elite power forward, a first-ballot hall of fame candidate, and repeat Trevor Linden's comment about him being the best player in the game or how it was he who helped Crosby score the winning goal. I know where all those comments come from and that many of them are based on a combination of fact, circumstance, and anecdote.
The value of a player on the trade market is hardly concrete and varies widely depending on the buyer and their needs and the time of year.
From where I sit, Iginla's age, shortened contract length, and recent inability to be a difference maker are all strikes against him.
His perennial point production, relative health against injury, and size are all in his favour.
It seems like many Flames fans are treating the trade of Iginla as though he were ballast to be tossed aside or can simply be foisted off on another team for their drafted and developed youth. That is an outdated model and one that fans are only hurting themselves by believing in.
Iginla, were he moved at the 2013 deadline, would probably return a 1st round pick and either a good prospect or a good young roster player. Not a Jordan Staal, but more like a 1st from a team expecting to draft in the bottom 10 that year and a prospect in the range of Nazem Kadri. And sure as heck not a 1st overall and a prospect.
As for the type of city FAs go to, if they pick their destination based on the buzz of the city, are those really the kinds of players that you want on your team? Every player has their own criteria and while many were quick to slander Edmonton when free agents chose not to come here, I wouldn't return the favour. The truth is the only free agents a team should want are those that want to win and enjoy the city for what it is. The Flames will need to put a team together that entices players with the chance to win, the rest will take care of itself. If a player wanted to sign in Edmonton because of the potential we're accumulating but decided against it because he doesn't like the snow or the shopping then it shouldn't really matter. If a team needs the player that badly then they haven't done enough internally to improve their roster.
@everton fc
re: Brent and getting rid of the wrong guy, unfortunately the GM usually picks the coach and there was no way that Feaster was going to be gone while Brent Sutter stayed. As for Darryl, he is showing why he is a good coach, and the Flames showed why he was a bad GM.
I still say that the Flames would be best served by hiring MacTavish as their next coach, but I don't see Feaster going in that direction.
Given Feaster's love of Tampa Bay retreads, if I were a Flames fan, at this point I'd be praying that Feaster doesn't decide to hire Barry Melrose.
@everton fc
Feaster never should have been hired in the first place. The moment I saw the press release he was hired as AGM, I was like "uh-oh, this is no bueno". He was desperate for a job considering he had no traction in the 2+ years since TB let him go, so imo he came on under the condition he follow orders from above (ie King and/or Edwards) and that's what he's doing. It's for this reason Daz was canned and that's why it was Butter to go and not Feaster (and also probably why Iron Mike was fired). Those who put up the less resistance to Big Brother will survive. It's power politics at play unfortunately and in those instances hockey decisions do not reign. A guy like Feaster was lucky he ever had a GM job in the first place (ditto to Weisbrod w/ the Orlando Magic btw); he's better suited in the radio booth or the TV studio like another guy who should have never had a hockey ops job, Mike Milbury.
@Rex: See Rex, that is why you just cant put a trade return for a complicated player like Iginla because this guy has many different trade values to different teams. I agree, Iggy for the Oilers #1 is ludicrous. Oilers are just not a trade partner. The only one they may want to target, & dont laugh, would be JBO & I dont even want to get into returns, obviously the 1st overall is not even in the discussion. Iggy will have significantly higher value to the right trade partner & that should be Feasters job to find out who & what that return is. Yourself & other Oiler fans share opinions on our trade expectations as Flames fans but from a point of view that is sckewed with what the Oilers would do or even would want the player period. I think it's pretty obvious that if its a late 1st rounder and marginal prospect, the Flames will probably find more value in keeping Iggy & find a coach that knows how to properly utilize a player like him. Obviously Brent Sutter couldnt figure it out in 3 years. If the return is like Torontos 5th overall & take your pick of Kadri or Schenn "if by chance Burke is desperate enough & Iggy agrees to go", big if's, a package like that has to be considered & deemed worthwhile making this bold move. Too many people on this site either overvalue or under value him, there is just no set value on this issue. That is probably why Feaster couldnt assure Brent Iggy would be just jettisoned out this summer. That right return may take until the 2013 trade deadline.
OK, yes I'm an Oiler fan but I don't hate Calgary. Best case is trade Kipper this summer for some good assets, keep Iggy until trade deadline and if you're out of it (could be close to lottery) see if he wants to go to a contender for a cup run. A contender could use Iggy's grit and strength for a run and would give a first and a good prospect. It would also be with the understanding that he would be welcome back with 1 year contracts with bonuses until he hangs 'em up. You never know you may be in the running for Mackinnon (sp) next year. Just a thought.
Hate to say it Diehard (I loved the first 2 movies, the rest of them, meh) but I think we are headed that way but it wouldnt be such a bad thing for Flames fans & ownership. Once the decision is made that we are about to move on from the last bastion of the Iggy/Kipper era, well I guess you just have to cross the bridges as you get there. I sure the Oil didnt want to have the 1st overall this year but oh well, you're there & just embrace it & move forward.
What part didn't you like: the part where Iggy comes back? Because it's the only other part. The lottery part is not a hockey decision its just what may or may not happen. Will be a very interesting summer for both teams.
I think you are right in believing Iggy's best value comes at the trade deadline, but there are two things that still concern me in that regard.
1.) As much as I love Iggy and hope someday to see him retire as a Flame, holding onto him for basically another year is a gamble I don't think the Flames can afford. There are just too many variables that could derail the whole scenario.
A.] What if Iggy gets hurt during the season and the Flames are unable to trade him, we all know the issues he had with the back last season.
B.] What if Iggy has a really bad year. When a player has 11 straight 30+ goal seasons and then in season 12 when teams know the Flames are looking to deal him but he is sitting somewhere around the 10 goal mark, how much does his value then plummet. Of course this can be off-set by what if he has a great year, but I'm not banking on that likelihood.
2.) I'm not sure as to why it has to be a one or the other when it comes to dealing Iggy and/or Kipper. Wouldn't logic dictate that if you trade one, you might as well deal the other because in both cases you are writing off a franchise player and perhaps that season. So what is it you are trying to salvage at that point.
I said before the Flames can't look at this with one foot in the pool. If you deal one or the other you are basically in it for the long haul and you might as well jump in the deep end full boar.
Kevin R
Agree with most of what you are saying, but... I would think if Toronto wanted to move up to the first pick in this summer's draft they would dangle something like their #5 and Kadri or Schenn (or both?). We have agreement that Iggy isn't worth the #1 pick, so I would suggest he is not worth #5 plus one of those 2 youngsters either. But, you never know.
@Steve: Yeah, using Toronto for Iggy was a bad example after I hit post comment. If I put Kipper in there instead, maybe Burke is desperate enough if he's feeling enough pressure. But I was just trying to show hypothetically what might sway Feaster to pulling the trigger on an Iggy trade. It must be an impressive offer for him to do it.
@Diehard: If we trade Iggy to a contender to persue a cup, chances are the retire contract wont be for about 3 years. If Iggy & Kipper are responsible for 25% of our wins & the new guys only get about 10% back, then we will be lottery picking.
Well aren't we all experts when it comes to shooting down my Iggy + something for the #1 overall pick? .... have you looked at which players are more consistent over the past 3 to 5 years in scoring vs Iggy (maybe 3-5 guys) and all the "big stars" he outscores every year (check the basic G+A). I've heard sillier things on here than my idea and Edmonton could use him to score with the young guys and sell tonnes and tonnes of tickets and merchandise (it's a business after all)....but anyhoooo... What's the chance we can run a open thread about "what can we get for Iggy" and see what other ideas we get? Here's a few ideas for Iggy trades based on teams who may want is veteran reliability to improve to make playoffs or go much deeper (so ideas depend on playofffs in part)? Also keeping I. Ind Flames less likely to trade him in the West in reality. 1) To Phil for Couterier Or Schenn (perhaps with other players each way to balance salaries) so they go further in playoffs next year 2) To NYR with another player for two of Stepan, Boyle, Zuccarello, Hagelin, or a d-man (but not Erixon) to put them deeper in next year playoffs 3) To Dal for Glennie 4) To NYI with 3rd rounder for Neiderreiter or for Okposo and F Neilsen so they get closer to playoffs 5) To Pit with 2nd rounder for J Staal and 4th rounder
I think you are WAY overvaluing Iggy's worth at this time.
Well isn't that special...did you have any facts to back you up? Thought so....
@Mchockey
If I were looking at trading for Iggy, I would be less swayed by what he has done in the last 5 years then what I project from him over the next 5. The time to swap Iggy for Schenn was last year. Why would anyone trade Schenn or Couturier for a 35 year old Iginla? They could both potentially score more points then Iggy within the next 2 years. Both could also lift the cup this year if the Flyers keep flying.
Oh, you mean FACTS, like "maybe 3-5 guyes". Why need I provide facts to counter your opinions?
I agree with you, people are wayyyyyyyyyyyyy over-valueing Iggy. 1st round pick+roster player, that's it. But honestly I don't see Schenn or Couturier getting more points then Iggy next year.
Thats why I said 2 years. May happen/may not. I would take either one over Iggy right now.