On Trading Kipper and the Flames Goaltending Assets

Kent Wilson
April 20 2012 11:00AM

 

 

If I were asked to put money on which of the big names will be moved from Calgary this summer, I'd have to bet on Miikka Kiprusoff.

It makes sense to move Kipper from a number of angles - he's coming off his best season in years (so his stock is high), his contractual NMC ends July first and he's a bad bet to have a repeat performance next year (he's 36 years old). Finally, Kipper's real salary drops to $5M next season and then to just $1.5M in 2013-14, thereby reducing the actual, financial risk to any interested trading partner.

The primary barrier to dealing Miikka will be a mix of sentimentality and risk aversion. As I discussed for the Score last March, goaltenders can cause probability neglect in fans/managers - a psychological bias that causes people to overweight (and therefore overpay or to avoid) potentially high anxiety outcomes:

NHL GMs tend to be very willing to pay to lock-up a goalie who has seemingly proved to be effective, even if that proof is a fleeting spike in performance. Paying a little too much for a guy is certainly not an optimal use of cap space, but as Gardner notes, humans are more than willing to forgo efficiency of costs in the face of anxiety-inducing risk.
As such, it’s probable in many ways that GMs who make Mason or Leighton type overpayments are purchasing goalies who they perceive to be “not bad” rather than “good”. The distinction is a meaningful one: it means they are not necessarily seeking the most efficient solution, but merely looking to avoid the risk of the worst possible outcome. In this calculation, it’s much worse to be stuck with a terrible, bargain basement goalie than it is to be stuck with a average but over-priced one.

You see this sentiment expressed often amongst Flames fans - "Calgary would be 30th overall without Kipper" is a common refrain. This is an understandable, but hyperbolic, summation of things in reaction to Kipper's Hasek-like turn in the middle of the season when the club was being routinely outshot. The truth, of course, is that his actual talent level is closer to average at than to elite at this point and the team would only lose significant ground if they replaced him with a well below average puck stopper. 

There is certainly risk attached to moving Kipper - he's at least an average goalie (which is better than a bad one) and he remains highly athletic and durable. There's value there. So to move him, the Flames will not only have to be tempted by a nice offer, but they'll also need to identify potential replacements to avoid being Steve Mason'd to the bottom of the standings.

We'll start by looking at the organization's internal goaltending assets -

The Existing Options

Leland Irving

A good bet to move up to the big league no matter what happens with Kipper this summer, I personally continue to be rather conflicted about Irving. Aside from the Boston massacre, the kid showed pretty well when he was up with the Flames this year, including several 35+ save evenings.

That said, he has never managed an outstanding season in the AHL. In fact, this year his SV% fell to a wholly unimpressive .902 for the Heat, which is a below replacement level rate even in the NHL. In fact, journeyman back-up Danny Taylor is Abbotsford's starting goalie heading into their upcoming first round playoff series. For good reason too - the free agent's SV% was vastly superior to Irving's (.927). 

This is actually the second time in his pro career that Irving has been usurped by a no-name back-up at some point during the season. David Shantz took over as the Heat's starter in 2009-10 with Irving even spending some time in the ECHL that year.

Irving clearly has some skill and was a workhorse for the Heat just last season, appearing in 61 games. However, I can count the number of goalies on one hand who never crested a .920 SV% in the AHL and went on to become a meaningful starter in the NHL (Irving's highest SV% as a pro is .913).

As goalies go, Irving is still young at 24-years old, but it remains an open question whether he's ready to be anything more than an occasional back-up in the bigs.

Henrik Karlsson

The organization lost faith in Karlsson this season, and for good reason - he's not very good. Although huge, enthusiastic and capable of a highlight reel save or two, the overall game just isn't there for the Calgary Tower. Karlsson isn't terribly mobile, goes down too easily and stoppable pucks leak through him too often. His NHL SV% in 26 games so far is .905 and there's little evidence he'll evolve much beyond that range.

Karlsson has one more year left on his contract with Calgary, but I expect both parties will try to find a way for him to fly back across the pond this summer. If not, expect to see him sent down to the farm for the remainder of his deal.

Joni Ortio

It was a very rough North American debut for Ortio this year. Formerly a goalie who bounced around the various Finnish junior and pro leagues, Ortio was coaxed to join the Abbotsford Heat last off-season where he very promptly fell on his face. In nine appearances for Abbotsford, Ortio won only once and managed a ghastly .890 save rate. He was eventually sent back to Europe as a result. 

The former 6th rounder landed with TPS in the SM-Liiga (Finnish Elite League) where he has since played 14 games, garnering a .908 SV%.

Ortio is three years younger than Irving and obviously a long way from becoming a factor in the Flames plans. If Irving indeed  moves up to the parent club, Ortio might get another chance to prove himself at the AHL level.

Karri Ramo

Acquired in the Rene Bourque/Mike Cammalleri swap, Ramo is the closest thing the Flames have to a legitimately pro-ready puckstopper (aside rom Kipper). He will turn 26 in July and has been plying his trade in the KHL for the last three seasons, managing back-to-back .925 save rates in each of the last two years for Omsk Avangard.

Formerly a draft pick of Jay Feaster's in Tampa Bay, Ramo was a sub-.900 goalie in both the AHL and NHL for years after leaving Finland. It's only recently as a starter in Russia that he's become a goaltender of any notable value.

It's hard to say how well goaltending translates between the KHL and the NHL or the degree to which Ramo would have to re-adjust if he should ever come back to NA. In addition, Ramo has what is likely a pretty well-paying contract with Omsk that extends for one more season and has no NHL out-clause. If he plays well for that club again next season, they may choose to re-up him at rate that the Flames may be unable to compete with.

Given his performance in the KHL, Ramo would be a worthwhile gamble as at least a "1B" in the NHL. The problem is he may never abandon his Russian gig.

Laurent Brossoit

Calgary's youngest puckstopper, the 19-year old Brossoit was picked in the 6th round by the Flames last summer after a fairly underwhelming rookie season with the Edmonton Oil Kings.

Fast forward one year and Brossoit is the starting goalie for what is likely the favorite to win it all in the WHL. He finished with the 5th highest SV% in the league after the regular season (.914) and currently boasts the best numbers of any WHL 'tender in the playoffs (8 wins, .941 SV%).

Those are some nice early returns on a late draft pick. Of course, one good junior season does not an NHL goalie make, so we're many years away from knowing if Brossoit will be a capable pro or not. A guy to keep an eye on, but he's not factor in big league decision making right now.

Other Options - Free Agents

There are lot of goalies set to hit the market this July, but only a couple are worth mentioning as potential starters - Josh Harding and Tomas Vokoun.

Harding has labored as the Wild's back-up for years, but has consistently put up good performances in that role. He was a better than .920 goalie in the AHL as well and at 28-years old is already an accomplished pro (the Flames acquired Kipper at the same age by the way).

Minnesota has Niklas Backstrom locked-up to a big dollar deal, so there's little chance Harding is going to usurp him there. That means Harding is a near certainty to test free agency this summer in the hopes to final land his own starting gig.

Tomas Vokoun was an elite guy for years in Nashville and Florida, but he fell down a bit this season for the Capitals with a rather average .916 SV%. Like Kipper, Vokoun is also 36-years old, so he could be approaching that inevitable point where guys fall off a cliff at the end of their careers. His signing is also a risk because cap hits to players 35 years or older tend to stick to organizations like glue (assuming those rules remain the same in the upcoming CBA).

Vokoun is a risk for those reasons, but he will also likely be cheaper than Harding to acquire as a result. Vokoun also managed three straight seasons of .920 SV% or above before his down slide in Washington, so there's also a small chance he'll rebound.

Conclusion

As mentioned, there are lots of reasons the Flames should investigate the market for Kipper this off-season. However, his absence will certainly complicate things in the crease if they manage to move him, assuming the club still wants to compete for a playoff spot. Absent a Ramo defection or a giant step forward by Irving, the Flames would have to hope to land one of Harding or Vokoun to realistically fill the nets.

39d8109299a9795cb3b41a4e9b49d501
Former Nations Overlord. Current Fn contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
Avatar
#1 Geedub
April 20 2012, 11:17AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

So if the Flames have any hope of trading him, who becomes a potential destination? Washington? Philly? Florida?

And what would you get back in return?

Avatar
#2 SmellOfVictory
April 20 2012, 11:25AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Chicago is a possibility, and Tampa Bay also needs goaltending pretty badly.

Avatar
#4 suba steve
April 20 2012, 11:42AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Nice summary Kent.

Provided the Flames are wise enough to move both Kipper and Iggy, I really don't care who we have in net next season. Fred Brathwaite may be available, he was always popular in Calgary. As long as we don't end up with a kid getting "broken" due to the awfull team ahead of him, I don't care. I want a crack at that lotto pick, cause really-other then Sven, what else is there to look foreward to with this team next year. Enjoy you weekend.

Avatar
#5 Colin
April 20 2012, 11:45AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Harding/Irving Combo?

Or offer a 4th to Vancouver for Luongo, it's obvious he's played his last game for that team.

Avatar
#6 RossCreekNation
April 20 2012, 12:04PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I don't disagree with what you've written, but a (big) part of me thinks the Flames will keep him. I just have this feeling that he & Iggy will finish here, simply based on nostalgia & loyalty.

Would be nice to see them pull a major haul for him tho.

Avatar
#7 RKD
April 20 2012, 12:04PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Funny seeing Kipper in a fight.

It's a huge gamble, the question I ask, is the reward worth the risk?

It took this organization a decade to find a legitimate #1 goalie. I know a lot people want to argue you don't need great goaltending to win the Stanley Cup and point out that Chicago won with Niemi.

The return for Kipper would have to be solid, a first round pick, a roster player and/or prospect.

I would be more comfortable if Ramo/Irving were the tandem instead of just Irving and waiting until the end of summer for management to sign any backup that is available. Harding could be decent.

Avatar
#9 Dave
April 20 2012, 12:17PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

If louongo goes on the market it might benefit the flames. Gm's might see kipper as close to louongo skill wise but with a respectable contract. Lou's contract might make him harder to trade to some teams.

I've heard an interesting idea that Lou might want to go to Tampa. He played well in Florida and that's where his wife is from and he owns a couple houses there.

Avatar
#10 suba steve
April 20 2012, 12:18PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@RKD

What bothers me is having to explain this concept every time trading Kipper (or Iggy) comes up. The Flames will not be winning the cup in the next 3 to 5 years, no way. By the end of that period Kipper will be retired and the returns on a retiring player are zilch. So in looking at the Flames as a business (which they are) there is no reason in the world to keep either of our 2 ageing stars. Trade them at their peak value, which is to say...ASAP.

Avatar
#11 RKD
April 20 2012, 12:45PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
suba steve wrote:

@RKD

What bothers me is having to explain this concept every time trading Kipper (or Iggy) comes up. The Flames will not be winning the cup in the next 3 to 5 years, no way. By the end of that period Kipper will be retired and the returns on a retiring player are zilch. So in looking at the Flames as a business (which they are) there is no reason in the world to keep either of our 2 ageing stars. Trade them at their peak value, which is to say...ASAP.

I just can't see ownership allowing that, but maybe it might happen. From the owners view, Kipper and Iggy still make them money.

Our defence needs a lot of improving, we need a top 4 d-man at the bare minimum. Another top six forward just for starters.

Avatar
#12 suba steve
April 20 2012, 01:05PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@RKD

I'm betting the best selling jersey next season will have Baertschi's name on the back (whether #12 & #34 are back or not). Factoring in the $12 million the 2 stars are making next year in salary ($7 for Ig, $5 for Kip), and I am not so sure that these 2 will be "earning" as much for ownership as they might think. On top of that it seems that Sven is a really outgoing, press friendly personality, that can be immeasurably helpfull in selling this team (and jerseys)in the coming years. Might be different if he was an introvert like JBo (and myself).

So, those are some of my reasons for wanting to break with the past. Oh, and did I mention I want a lotto pick, perhaps 2 or 3.

Lastly, is it just me, or is that cougar-life chick really, really hot? (just saw her again on capgeek)

Avatar
#13 ALL THE WAY IN
April 20 2012, 01:10PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Mr. Wilson, I have been a citizen on the nations network for a couple of years now and have actively taken part in many discussions. My problem is that about 4 months ago I decided to take a (s)troll through oilers nation and verbally whoop them resulting in a IP ban placed by Brownlee. At no point did I swear or use improper language, I was however using an alias "canucklehead", which gave me leverage to bash on the oilers, since it was equally easy for them to come on here and bash the flames. I have now waited 4 months (patiently) for this ban to be lifted and am sick of waiting. Please rectify this issue for me. Thank you.

Avatar
#15 ALL THE WAY IN
April 20 2012, 01:30PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Gladly. Can I have your email address good sir?

Avatar
#17 ALL THE WAY IN
April 20 2012, 01:37PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

As per the current discussion, I see Al Montoya is a free agent and might be a worth while option if we were to part with the Kip. Between him, Irving and Ramo we might be OK.

Avatar
#18 Kevin R
April 20 2012, 02:04PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Well, I think after this 1st round, we may have a few more trading partners for Kipper. Read on a Chicago site they are talking about Kipper being a target if the Flames do some dynamite work & trade guys like Kipper & Iggy. One thing for sure, we have seen how many coaches & have heard how many times Kipper needs to play less & we need a backup playing more games. What happens every friggin year, we stink coming out of the block & every game becomes critical from October 25th on & Kipper plays 5 out of every 6 games. It will happen again next year too. Any takers on that bet if Kipper is with the Flames Oct 1?

Totally agree that Kipper & Iggy are in the same category. You "must" explore the trade value of these players, set an internal price & auction them off & see if you can get that return or better. If you do, then do it. We have 2 scenarios moving forward if Kipper & Iggy are traded for "acceptable to the Flames" returns (Im saying this because I'm sick & tired of debating what their value is).1/ our young & new guys that are brought in are not going to replace their production, no one else on the teams steps up their production & we suck & Steve gets his lottery pick.2/ The other thing that might happen is the new players & younger guys play pretty good & other players on this team step up their games & we finish similar to what we have done the last 3 years. Steve aint too happy, but here's the twist, we just moved in 2 players 12.8 million off of our cap, in addition to the other big contracts leaving this summer. It means Flames will have cap space coming out our ying yang & that creates opportunity for Feaster to pull some pretty sneaky trades to teams that have their genitals in a cap vice. That can potentially be as good as a lottery pick. So the fans, the management & the owners cant fear the reaper when it comes to trading Kipper & Iggy.

Avatar
#19 negrilcowboy
April 20 2012, 03:14PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

what is kipper's actual worth? the pending cba talks may influence the market place. seems like bobby lou wants to be in the sunshine state, must be vancouvers rains that effected his play.

Avatar
#20 keep it together
April 20 2012, 04:13PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Kippers actual worth is that he is worth more to us on the team than in a trade. Keep it all together and trust Feaster to make the right tweaks. If we didn't start so slow the last couple of years we would have been in the playoffs. Look what is happening in the playoffs right now, any team can win. How can they even think about breaking up our core.

Avatar
#21 DieHard
April 20 2012, 04:30PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
ALL THE WAY IN wrote:

Mr. Wilson, I have been a citizen on the nations network for a couple of years now and have actively taken part in many discussions. My problem is that about 4 months ago I decided to take a (s)troll through oilers nation and verbally whoop them resulting in a IP ban placed by Brownlee. At no point did I swear or use improper language, I was however using an alias "canucklehead", which gave me leverage to bash on the oilers, since it was equally easy for them to come on here and bash the flames. I have now waited 4 months (patiently) for this ban to be lifted and am sick of waiting. Please rectify this issue for me. Thank you.

Change your IP address.

Avatar
#22 Kurt
April 20 2012, 04:31PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
keep it together wrote:

Kippers actual worth is that he is worth more to us on the team than in a trade. Keep it all together and trust Feaster to make the right tweaks. If we didn't start so slow the last couple of years we would have been in the playoffs. Look what is happening in the playoffs right now, any team can win. How can they even think about breaking up our core.

I'm sure glad you aren't the GM. You just summed up the optimal worst strategy in the planet. We've been middling at best, and now are just older (worse).

Trade Kipper & Iggy ASAP. Let Sven come along slowly and start building pieces around him, hopefully including a top 3 pick next year.

If Feaster runs this team how you suggested I'll have to hang up my Flames jersey and start watching soccer. It'll be just as boring and way less frustrating.

Avatar
#23 RexLibris
April 20 2012, 04:32PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@KevinR

Come on, one more round of "what is he worth"? There are so many trade partners we haven't even explored yet.

Are you suggesting that the Flames attempt in Calgary, either next season or the one after, what Dale Tallon did this past summer via acquiring expensive contracts from desperate teams. Well, have I got a Horcoff for you!

Avatar
#24 DieHard
April 20 2012, 04:49PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Kent Wilson wrote:

There's a number of potential locations - CBJ, TOR, WSH, TBL, FLA. And I think we can safely say the return would have to significant to sway the Flames to part with him.

If they can get a bidding war going between a couple of suitors, a first and a decent prospect isn't an outrageous assumption.

THIS - sounds reasonable.

However, according to your article, Kipper's position is a problem. Not much in the pipeline. I get a chuckle regarding Brossoit. Are Flames fans actually cheering for the Oil Kings? He is several years away but you got to have some prospects and you never know. If you do manage to trade Kipper, the Flames might want to have a below average goal-tender next year to maximize lottery chances . I'm not sure if @steve wants 2 or 3 picks in lottery position next year or to pick second or third. I'd shoot for first.

Question for Kent. If the Flames made moves this summer that looked like they they weren't shooting for a playoff spot (I don't want to say "tank"), would it be best to put Sven in the AHL for his first ELC year?

Avatar
#25 everton fc
April 20 2012, 05:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I'd sign Taylor in Abbotsford. And dump Karlsson.

I have a feeling about Taylor... Ward likes him a lot. Comparable to Irving, as far a prospects go. At least in my opinion, based on this years statistics.

Avatar
#26 Justin Azevedo
April 20 2012, 05:32PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@everton fc

taylor's like 27. I'm not sure that counts as a "prospect".

Avatar
#27 Kevin R
April 20 2012, 06:31PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Rex: No I'm saying there are going to be more teams than you think that may be in the market for a durable, experienced, consistent goal tender. So unless someone like "keep it together" thinks we are going to have some planets lined up, once in 30 year Cup run with this group, pull the trigger if the price is right. I know you & I agree to disagree what is a reasonable return for aging star players in a very irrationale world of GM's in the NHL. Whatever, you're right & I'm right but if there is no trade, we'll never know I guess. I think the probability of Iggy & Kipper not getting traded is way higher than even one of them getting traded & that is a very depressing thought & I dont want to discuss those particular inner feelings until it happens. But expect me to be pissed & my language very raw.

Avatar
#28 Kevin R
April 20 2012, 06:32PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Sure we'll take your Horcoff contract & Omark & Parjarvi for Stajan:)

Avatar
#29 MC Hockey
April 20 2012, 06:35PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

What about trading with Washington...Kipper to them and Brooks Laich (to play with Iggy) and Holtby coming back. Maybe need to add in a pick (3rd or lower) to Wsh depending on how Holtby's playoffs finish. Recall Voloun is a UFA so we could sign him too!

Avatar
#30 MC Hockey
April 20 2012, 07:06PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

What about Conklin...ok not really I just like thinking about the dead clown logo of the company (Conklin) that runs the rides at the Stampede and most summer fairs in Canada.

Avatar
#31 Justin Azevedo
April 20 2012, 07:10PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Kevin R

haha I'd do that in a second

Avatar
#32 MC Hockey
April 20 2012, 07:16PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Kent...Would Flames make bids on RFAs like Schneider, Pavelec, or even Bachman with minmizing compensation kept in mind? I have heard the Schneider one a lot

Avatar
#33 Artax
April 20 2012, 10:05PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Next year I'd like to see Irving up with Karlsson or Ramo (if he could be coaxed away from the KHL). I like kipp a lot but this is about the last time we could trade him and actually get anything for him.

I def think Tampa, Washington and Chicago are the most in need of a decent starter and could see him ending up in one of those locations. He deserves a shot with a team that isn't about to go into a retool.

As for other goalies around the league I'd like to see in Calgary, Harding is a good choice, Lindback in Nashville could be an option, Canucks aren't giving up Schneider so he's not an option, Bernier from LA could work, Enroth from Buffalo showed fairly well this season.

One that may be good is if we could trade Kipper to Philly and pickup Bobrovsky and perhaps a pick/prospect. I don't trust Bryzgalov's psyche, he seems a bit weird and unstable, they could use a more dependable keeper like Kipper.

I don't see Winnipeg giving up Pavelec...or Washington giving up Holtby.

Avatar
#34 Doug
April 20 2012, 10:12PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
DieHard wrote:

THIS - sounds reasonable.

However, according to your article, Kipper's position is a problem. Not much in the pipeline. I get a chuckle regarding Brossoit. Are Flames fans actually cheering for the Oil Kings? He is several years away but you got to have some prospects and you never know. If you do manage to trade Kipper, the Flames might want to have a below average goal-tender next year to maximize lottery chances . I'm not sure if @steve wants 2 or 3 picks in lottery position next year or to pick second or third. I'd shoot for first.

Question for Kent. If the Flames made moves this summer that looked like they they weren't shooting for a playoff spot (I don't want to say "tank"), would it be best to put Sven in the AHL for his first ELC year?

not possible to put Sven in the AHL yet. And he doesnt need to go

Avatar
#35 Kenta
April 21 2012, 12:40AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Am I the only one who remembers the lean years between when the Flames had Mike Vernon and acquired Kipper? Do we not remember Trevor Kidd and Turek? To label Kipper as an average goalie is ridiculous. He kept us in many games last year and is going to be cheap for the next 2 years (which is good for us). Trading him makes no sense as keeping him will allow us to develop the other prospects while still having a chance to win some games. Iggy should go but Kipper needs to stay.

Avatar
#36 beloch
April 21 2012, 01:05AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

"his actual talent level is closer to average at than to elite"

Kipper's sv% has been close to league average since the lockout. The number of games he's played has been well above average. (e.g. This year, only Pekka Rinne played more games and maintained an above average sv%.)

Now consider this:

What is an "average" goal-tender in the NHL? Well, half the teams in the NHL don't have a goalie that good. This should tell you that average goalies aren't as easy to come by as you seem to think.

Is Irving good enough to be average? Possibly, but probably not. Ramo? The KHL is a tougher league than the AHL, so perhaps, but when will he be available, if ever? If the Flames want a free agent goalie good enough to be average they're going to have to outbid half the league.

Finally, some goalies do remain above average into their forties. Will Kipper be one of them?

The way I see it, Kipper is *not* going to be easy to replace. "Average" goalies are actually pretty hard to find. Kipper will likely still be "average" next season, but his talents might be wasted on a non-playoff team.

If Calgary trades Kiprusoff, they need to get a *large* return. Average goalies are undervalued at present so the return likely will not be worth taking. Barring a major surprise, I'd expect any trade involving Kipper to wind up as a big loss for the Flames.

Avatar
#37 RexLibris
April 21 2012, 01:11AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Kevin R

No worries. I'm not interested in going into that debate again either, I just thought I'd test that nerve that seems to be acting up again. ;-)

Kiprusoff will have a lot of suitors. In fact I'd expect 20 GMs to call Feaster and inquire about the pricetag. It doesn't mean that there will be 20 good offers, but a GM has to explore all his options. Where he lands remains to be seen, but if Flames fans want a decent return they had best hope for Luongo to be traded this summer as well, in the hopes of creating a desperate bridesmaid for the bidding war.

I get the frustration and anger that you are holding back, but here is what I can say about it. The Flames' window has closed. It sucks, but you had a run and some great memories. The Flames put together a great group of players and held them together during an economic period when most other "small-market" teams were selling just to stay alive.

The Flames also got further in the playoffs than any other Canadian team, save Edmonton, in the period between 1995 and 2010. Heck, the Flames came closer to the Cup than perennial favourites, San Jose.

Be proud of both those accomplishments.

So the time has come now for the team and the fans to close that chapter and start a new one. This can be the most traumatizing part because watching old, familiar faces leave and heading into uncharted waters with new and largely untested players is nerve wracking. But it has to start sometime and frankly the sooner the better.

I expect many Flames fans will go through a grieving period when Iginla and Kiprusoff leave either by trade or retirement. Then, you move on.

Believe me, I have been through this many, many, many times.

Avatar
#38 backburner
April 21 2012, 08:16AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I just cant see Calgary trading Kipper and then signing Vokoun... Harding maybe... but it would seem like it would make more sense to hold on to Kipper for at least another year or two until Irving takes over...

Avatar
#39 backburner
April 21 2012, 08:19AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Kippers return would have to be amazing... like Tampa's or Washington's first picks...

Avatar
#40 theartfuldodger
April 21 2012, 08:50AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Totally agree!

Avatar
#41 Kevin R
April 21 2012, 10:19AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@ Rex: Right on & well put my Oiler brother:) We had a good stretch where we had really no doubts we were playoff bound. You tend to take that for granted until you start missing the playoffs & my how the years of missing can quickly rack up when you fall into that pit. Once you get there, you can either enjoy the short ride & be prepared to go back into the line up or you have a really smart GM that makes the bold moves to ensure you stay on the ride longer. Thats where I'm bitter with Daryl & so jealous that Holmgren & the Philly organization has the right vision.Even if Philly cough up that series against Pitt, man what a future they have. Oilers turn to get on the ride is coming up soon. I think in 2 years they can be there, I know we are now heading to the back of the line & many of us are just hoping to find a way to bud in somewhere up closer. To many of us, if Feaster can pull off miraculous incredible overpayment trades, that might happen. But it seems that big gorilla of a security guard is scowling & pointing to head to the back of the line:-(

Avatar
#42 DieHard
April 21 2012, 05:28PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Kevin R wrote:

@ Rex: Right on & well put my Oiler brother:) We had a good stretch where we had really no doubts we were playoff bound. You tend to take that for granted until you start missing the playoffs & my how the years of missing can quickly rack up when you fall into that pit. Once you get there, you can either enjoy the short ride & be prepared to go back into the line up or you have a really smart GM that makes the bold moves to ensure you stay on the ride longer. Thats where I'm bitter with Daryl & so jealous that Holmgren & the Philly organization has the right vision.Even if Philly cough up that series against Pitt, man what a future they have. Oilers turn to get on the ride is coming up soon. I think in 2 years they can be there, I know we are now heading to the back of the line & many of us are just hoping to find a way to bud in somewhere up closer. To many of us, if Feaster can pull off miraculous incredible overpayment trades, that might happen. But it seems that big gorilla of a security guard is scowling & pointing to head to the back of the line:-(

I appreciate hearing this and wish the Flames a fast recovery. I truly long for the days of BOA playoffs.

Avatar
#43 2:00 AM
April 21 2012, 09:41PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I was thinking Chicago could be a trade partner for the flames@kipper, they need a veteran presence that is good, ala kipper

Avatar
#44 CA Flames Fan
April 21 2012, 09:57PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Interesting topic in terms of where Kipper could end up....after PIT beat PHI by a touchdown this week I thought man....with Kipper between the pipes the Flyers would really be deadly.

Bryz is one for the ages...as much as I think the Flames could get some great assets from PHI....that Bryz contract $$ and term is a boat anchor around the Flyers neck..tough for PHI to make a goalie deal with Bryz contract....but not the anchor that Luongo's contract is for the Cannots.....Schneider is for real....Gillis will really need to pull a rabbit out of the hat to move Luongo.

Go Kings!

Avatar
#45 Walter Sobchak
April 22 2012, 03:43AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Kent Wilson

I can't see what you would expect from CBJ, TOR and TBL? Certainly not there 1st overall. If I'm re-building I'm going for higher end pick's plus legit prospects. WASH might give you there pick but not the COL pick which is what the Flames would want but with Holtby playing some damn fine hockey what's the point in making that trade?

FLA has two good goalies and zero cash for a 5 million dollar goalie, there's no way your getting a draft pick or prospects out of Tallon. CBJ is in a complete re-build and have there own issues of trading players and TOR been stung by trading draft picks away. Think SJS, CHI or possible the NYI. If CHI doesn't get out of he first round you can bet somebody is going down, you know changes will happen SJS system very soon.

If I'm the Flames GM I want a 1st rounder, a prospect and a serviceable veteran.

Which the NYI have, the Islanders are in a really good position, almost a playoff team but they need a legit goalie, a package deal like Kipper and Player A for NYI 1st plus a prospect and a veteran player.

In reality " player A " might have to be Glencross to swing that deal.

NYI make more sense then the others you put up there.

Avatar
#46 11yomamen
April 22 2012, 10:46AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I will prefer trade with Pens. Everybody knows that M A Fleury sucks bid time, so its obvious that this team need a quality goalie. If Flames can get Jordan Staal from Pennsylvania in exchange plus 4 or 5 draft round I will be pleased. Win win situation for booth teams I think. Pens will have serious chance for Stanley cup for couple of seasons and Flames get big strong center and some young player.

Comments are closed for this article.