FLAMES UFA PROFILE: David Moss

Vintage Flame
June 19 2012 09:23AM

 

For the most part, the idea of which UFA’s the Flames should re-sign has been pretty black and white. The consensus has Calgary needing to pursue a drastically different course of action that will take them off the dead end path that they have been blindly plodding for the better part of the last decade.

Where that discussion sees a little more grey area is when we discuss the future of David Moss.

 

THE ROLLERCOASTER

There is no doubt that Moss has been a work-in-progress for the Flames over his six year career and the organization has invested a lot in the 30 year old American winger. If there is one attribute that has always stuck out about Moss to the fans and to the team, it’s confidence.

Both fan and management have for the most part felt that David has always been an asset on the ice rather than a liability and if the Flames were ever in situations that are oft described as “crunch-time”, that Mosser is one of the guys you immediately look to.

Season Team   GP G A PTS +/- PPG PPA PPP PTS/G SHG GWG PIM SH
2011 Calgary NHL 32 2 7 9 -3 0 0 0 0.3 0 0 12 82
2010 Calgary NHL 58 17 13 30 +9 5 2 7 0.5 0 3 18 127
2009 Calgary NHL 64 8 9 17 -9 3 1 4 0.3 0 2 20 133
2008 Calgary NHL 81 20 19 39 -5 8 3 11 0.5 0 4 22 194
2007 Calgary NHL 41 4 7 11 -4 0 0 0 0.3 0 0 10 60
2006 Calgary NHL 41 10 8 18 +5 3 1 4 0.4 0 1 12 70
  Total NHL 317 61 63 124 -7 19 0 19 0.4 0 10 94 666

Unfortunately for both team and player, that when that search was on, more often than not, Moss’ stall was empty. Other than 2008-09, when he managed to play 81 games, Moss has been injured for significant chunks of time, leaving the Flames searching for answers and alternatives. With Moss now being a UFA, it’s a status that might be more detrimental to his future as a Flame rather than the leverage most players would use to their advantage.

THE MATH

When we examine the table above, it’s easy to jump to the conclusion that the 2008-09 season what Moss’ most productive season based on the fact that it generated his highest point totals and, well, he finished the season - and you’d be right. From the point of view of the Flames, it was also the most rewarding season financially in the value they got out of him. According to NHLnumbers.com, Moss’ 39 pts in 81 games at a cap hit of $550k, gave him a spending efficiency value of 70.909 pts for every million dollars. It was a no brainer for the Flames to give him a significant raise the following season and a three year deal.

Unfortunately, again, that would be the apex of his value in part because he has yet to play a complete season since. Over the next three years, his games-played totals would slide and only in the middle season (2011), would his point totals rebound.

From the on-ice perspective, 2010-11 was his most effective season. Even though he finished with three less goals and nine less points than his best totals, he also did so in 23 less games. During that time he was an integral part of the line-up and his loss was thought by many to be the key contributors to the Flames missing the playoffs.

What Moss brings to the Flames goes beyond his offensive production. While he may not register on the score sheet every night, when he is in the line-up, he definitely has an impact. Over the last three seasons, David has seen his offensive zone starts go down from 53.4 – 53.8 – 47.9; while his Corsi Relative has gone up from 3.0 – 7.1 – 10.3. He is a smart player that is capable of driving the play out of his own zone. An argument can be made that Moss’ absence might have had something to do with that problematic aspect of the Flames seasons, particularly last year.

One has to wonder that if David could actually played a full 82 games, would he show dividends for all the hard work and invested time that Calgary has put into him. The only problem is that now that his contract is up, has time run out for the right-winger? The uncertainty of his ability to stay healthy enough to help the team when they have most needed him forced the team to search for other options. With the new direction of the team and a focus on getting younger, has the alternative now become the more desirable choice?

THE ALTERNATIVE

The way I see it, the Flames are down to a two-horse race when it comes to their UFAs. Do they re-sign David Moss, someone they have invested so much in and know what they get out of him, on a hope that he can finally have a healthy season? Or, do the Flames re-sign their alternative option, Lee Stempniak, who happens to be a year younger and brings more offensive potential than David?

I don’t see Calgary re-signing both and given the talk that new head coach Bob Hartley is going to focus more on the offense, my belief is that the sand in the hour glass has just about run out for Moss. It’s not a knock against him or even that he doesn’t fit in with the style of game the Flames are looking to play. His smarts on the ice would still be an asset for the team going forward, but at the same time, it’s pretty hard to get past the injuries.

Going forward there has to be a lot of guessing work going on around Moss: how good is his foot? Is he even now 100%, because the talk last year is that they didn’t even really know what was wrong with his foot, and why his injury wouldn’t heal according to any schedule, even after he had surgery on it.

I had the chance to talk to Craig Conroy during the World Junior Championships and when I asked about Moss, he replied with, “The problem with David is that he just takes so long to heal. He’s a very slow healer.” That sort of recuperation timetable has to have management a little nervous to risk another new contract on, when realistically they have a younger, speedier, more offensive option already in front of them.

Personally, I have always liked Moss. I have said for years that with his tenacity, the Flames should be spending the entire off-season with him planted in front of a net, learning to tip pucks. Teach him to do it so well that when the fans see the Flames play in their vintage jerseys, that they think they are watching Joe Nieuwendyk on the ice. That being said, there is a little voice in the back of my head that thinks the only way they choose to re-sign Moss, is if they can’t get Stempniak inked to a contract or they are both re-signed and one is packaged in a deal come July 1st.

E42f2ca09dfb26046c3060ff46473aff
Vintage Flame is a Calgary based sports junkie that prefers to call hockey a "religion" rather than an addiction. He believes there are two types of hockey fans. Those who cheer for the Flames, and those who don't understand the sport yet. Follow Vintage_Flame on Twitter
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#1 Colin.S
June 19 2012, 09:30AM
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I'm not against signing him, I'm just on the side of the team on this one, I'd rather re-sign a Stempniak or a Comeau rather than Moss at this point. He's not going to get any better than what we've seen, and he is injury prone(I know the term is a bit silly).

Will I be upset if the team resigns him, no. Would I rather they try to find a bit of an upgrade on him, sure, I think they have one in Stempniak, though he's also going to cost a bit more.

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#2 Stockley
June 19 2012, 09:36AM
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I've always liked Moss as well. How much can they afford to invest in him, however? This isn't a one-off fluke season where he got hurt. He's missed at least 20 games in three consecutive seasons, a disheartening trend.

I wish him well and hope he gets back to being healthy and productive. I just hope it's in another jersey because it just doesn't seem to be working out in Calgary for him or the team.

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#3 Bikeit
June 19 2012, 09:46AM
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I always got the feeling this guy could be a 30 goal scorer. Then poof he would disappear offensively or disappear from injury. Moss has shifted from 2nd 3rd line player to a 3rd 4th liner and will probably be in the future. Always liked him and his play, but it may be time to walk away.

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#4 Mitch2
June 19 2012, 10:08AM
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The problem with Moss this year is that he will be very replaceable.

He is a career Flame, certainly has some sentimentality with the Fan base but do you keep a 30 going on 31 year old 3rd line player? Or do you go younger?

Moss has done his job over the years but the fact is he will sign on min cost or the Flames will go younger for his role. Sentimentality is what drives the resign Moss bus not facts.

30 going on 31 year old serviceable 3rd line player with an injury history? You would not even hesitate to cut him loose VF, if he was not a career Flame.

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#5 Domebeers.com
June 19 2012, 10:08AM
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Moss would be fine at 500K on the fourth line. Good option to play third or more if injuries happen.

Too bad the organization gave away that spot to 80 year old Tim Jackman.

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#6 Ravage
June 19 2012, 10:10AM
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Time to let Moss go. With the emergence of Glencross as a significant scoring threat and the fact that Moss' injuries tend to be piling up I don't think it's possible to get decent value for what he can bring to the team.

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#7 rubbertrout
June 19 2012, 10:11AM
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Staios is still available . . .

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#9 Kent Wilson
June 19 2012, 10:36AM
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@Mitch2

Actually, the reason Moss isn't a slam dunk to let walk is that he remains one of the few skaters on the team who moves the puck forward efficiently in all circumstances.

Im as pragmatic and unsentimental a fan that exists I'd say. Which is what drives me to value Moss - dude gets the job done for very cheap.

The injuries and age are not insignificant issues, however.

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#10 Mitch2
June 19 2012, 10:42AM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Actually, the reason Moss isn't a slam dunk to let walk is that he remains one of the few skaters on the team who moves the puck forward efficiently in all circumstances.

Im as pragmatic and unsentimental a fan that exists I'd say. Which is what drives me to value Moss - dude gets the job done for very cheap.

The injuries and age are not insignificant issues, however.

As with many players, my view comes down to the Bob Barker bottom line.

"If the Price is Right"

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#11 Ryan Pike
June 19 2012, 10:44AM
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Honestly, cheapness/usefulness is one of the reasons I'd re-sign him. Same with his injury status. Moss is usually useful or he's hurt. If he's hurt, it gives somebody else a chance to do his job. If he's healthy, he's doing his job on the cheap.

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#12 Bean-counting cowboy
June 19 2012, 11:34AM
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Moss may end up being a victim one of the only strengths of the current Flames team - that being depth & having a number of quality players on the 3rd & 4th lines.

Moss is great 3rd liner, but we have lots of those (including what is currently our "2nd line")

It's top 2 line players we need. We have enough Moss's. And to me that's unfortunate because I really like Moss & what he brings (when he is playing).

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#13 everton fc
June 19 2012, 11:51AM
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I'd take Moss over Jackman on the 4th line, RW.

Most would take Comeau over Moss on the 4th line, RW, if Jackman's excluded. Comeau's younger, more durable, "has potential"... Or so it seems...

I'd take Moss over Comeau. But it's close...

A 4th line of Bouma-Jones-Moss would score some goals while being difficult to play against, on both ends of the ice... I think a 4th line of Bouma-Jones-Comeau would have the same potential, but Moss on RW would have more offencive potential, if Moss could stay healthy.

Moss/Comeau/Jones are servicable - can play 2nd/3rd line minutes in an emergency. Jackman can't. This also is part of my reasoning above...

If they can move Stajan, Moss can play centre. I believe Comeau's played centre, as well. Again, more useful than Jackman...

I think Aliu and Desbiens could also provide mroe offence than Jackman. I like Jackman. But he's over 30. Hands of concrete. And so forth.

Stempniak can play here on the 3rd line, RW, even if Feaster and Hartley want to win "now". But he may also want to head home, back east... Where he's from.

Moss would be great with the Red Wings. 3rd/4th line role, cheap, closer to his roots. So would Comeau. 4th line w/the Wings, if there was room.

This is where these guys slot. 4th liners on a winning team....

(By the way, Moss has always been one of my favourite Flames)

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#14 marty
June 19 2012, 12:00PM
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if moss is not resigned looked for hime to be scooped up by la i would imagine. he would thrive there. im a moss supporter as well i wouldn't mind if they resigned him for the right price. maybe he needs a different local too.

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#15 KetchupKid
June 19 2012, 12:13PM
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Positionally, Moss gives the team flexibility as well. He's strong on the PK and able to cover a variety of positions in the case of injuries (that aren't his own). I think the team should absolutely pursue re-signing him. Of course, as always, it's about the price tag...

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#16 Baalzamon
June 19 2012, 12:42PM
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@everton fc

wow, you managed to do a whole post about 4th liners without mentioning Derek Dorsett!! lol

for me, I've always liked Moss as a do-it-all play-any-position forward. If they re-sign him, great. If they don't... Nemisz is turning into a similar player.

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#17 JumpJet
June 19 2012, 12:54PM
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Completely off topic, but did anyone else see Josh Harding has resigned with the Wild? With him and Tomas Vokoun no longer headed to free agency, should that increase Miikka Kiprusoff's trade value?

I hope Feaster is making phone calls to Columbus, NYI and Toronto.

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#18 MangoTanker
June 19 2012, 01:03PM
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While I want Mosser to be resigned, I doubt that management will re-up him, and I can see why they might not. He's a 30 year old guy who is injured often and contributes minimally offensively. While he's a player that for sure makes a difference when he's in the lineup, he's not in the lineup altogether too often. The Flames brass still might re-ink him because he'll come cheap and give the club an option against talented forwards, so I guess there is a possibility he'll be back.

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#19 MC Hockey
June 19 2012, 01:27PM
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Like others, I am on the fence, but again his Corsi stats show he does drive play to the offensive zone with a Corsi On stat of 6.85i only 32 games. Notably, the options of Stempniak (4.62) and Comeau (less so at -0.55)also have good Corsi On stats.

For Moss, I think you give a low-risk offer of $1M to him for 1 year (down from 1.3M over last 3 years) to see how it works out. If he wants more, walk away and leave a roster space open for young guys or potential "add-ons" that come in a big trade to balance salaries.

However, if you have to choose between Moss and Stempniak in order to leave roster spots open for young guys like Horak, Baertschi, Bouma, Nemisz (?), Reinhart (?) and others to win, then I think the better option due to his age and scoring upside is Stempniak, given the other 3rd to 4th line talent we have who may do what Moss can do.

Comeau is another complication in the mix, but perhaps his low counting stats and just decent Corsi stats will render him less likely to be offered a deal given other young options that Feaster wants to have on the Flames.

Basically the price matters on Moss as does the Flames plans for brining in more competition and leaving spaces open for draft choices.

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#21 RossCreekNation
June 19 2012, 01:57PM
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No thanks. Move on.

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#22 RossCreekNation
June 19 2012, 01:59PM
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Domebeers.com wrote:

Moss would be fine at 500K on the fourth line. Good option to play third or more if injuries happen.

Too bad the organization gave away that spot to 80 year old Tim Jackman.

Uh... Jackman's only a month and a half older than Moss... :)

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#23 Kent Wilson
June 19 2012, 02:02PM
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@JumpJet

Me too.

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#24 gussey
June 19 2012, 02:26PM
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Id like to see moss resigned, for very cheap. I dont see how he could really demand that much and if he goes to july 1, I cant see anyone going more than 1.5 mil per. Flames could resign him at around 1 mil I would think. If he asks for more, see ya later David. I would also resign stempniak as well if he would stay arund 1.5 (and again why wouldn't he, brutal year). I think we are buying low for both players. Resign Comeau for under 2 as well and you have 3rd and 4th lines of the following:

Bartshi - Backlund - Stempiak Comeau - Jones - Moss

Jackman and Bouma are for depth

I think that is a good bottom six with speed, grit, scoring potential and there is the depth for a couple of those guys go into the top six when injuries occur.

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#25 everton fc
June 19 2012, 02:45PM
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@Baalzamon

Indeed! I still like Dorsett in a Flames jersey. Always will.

If we move JBo to Columbus... I'd demand Dorsett as part of the deal (I'd try and move Jackman, too, of course!)

Alas... We are stuck with what we've got.

I don't think Nemisz will be like Moss. But if he can be, that'd be great, because that's his ceiling, in my opinion. Which isn't too bad.

As for Harding, I never thought he'd leave Minnesota. He didn't want to leave. I doubt he ever considered leaving.

(Kipper to Columbus... Dorsett comes the other way as part of a good package for the Flames!!)

@Gussey - I'd take that 4th line of Comeau-Jones-Moss. I'd also like to see Nemisz get a look on this fantasy 4th line, right side, if Moss is let go.

Perhaps that's the plan. Give Nemisz a go. Nemisz seems like a really good kid. I'd be okay w/Nemisz and Bouma getting a look on either side of Jones.

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#26 negrilcowboy
June 19 2012, 02:49PM
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adios david, thats but we have no more room for 30 something injury prone ham n eggers that cant score in a cathouse. the flames third line is full of fourth liners and the fourth line is full of ahlers.

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#27 Ryan Pinder
June 19 2012, 02:51PM
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Moss is listed as a right winger in the Flames Media Guide... not a LW as indicated in the article.

ed .. Thanks Ryan. Corrected.

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#28 ChinookArch
June 19 2012, 02:59PM
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Ryan Pike wrote:

Honestly, cheapness/usefulness is one of the reasons I'd re-sign him. Same with his injury status. Moss is usually useful or he's hurt. If he's hurt, it gives somebody else a chance to do his job. If he's healthy, he's doing his job on the cheap.

My sentiments exactly.

I also belileve Moss will be signed as a result of Stempniak finding a job elsewhere for more money than the Flames will offer.

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#29 Domebeers.com
June 19 2012, 03:07PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

Uh... Jackman's only a month and a half older than Moss... :)

ARGH MALARG!

DO NOT WANT!

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#30 FireOnIce
June 19 2012, 05:08PM
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@JumpJet

Unfortunately, the only teams needing a goalie are also terrible and don't have much to give. That's why they're in that position in the first place.

What would we get from Columbus? Dorsett + ? Brassard? If Kipper is involved, do we get Mason? If JBo is involved, do we get Wisniewski or someone else on D?

What about NYI? Neiderreter? Hamonic?

Don't even get me started on the Leafs. Point is, these teams don't seem to have much, at least that they can afford to part with.

And holy crap, Karlsson signs for $6.5M per year over 7 years. That's like, Jay Bouwmeester money! Good for the kid, but if that sets the bar for $6.5M defencemen, consider Jay Bouwmeester a permanent Calgary resident.

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#31 Kevin R
June 19 2012, 05:35PM
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Hearing Oilers looking at JBO. Whats this world coming to Rex. I can see them dumping Mr hurter Ryan Whitney, 2nd rounder, which is almost like a 1st & someone else. If its Parjarvi, then I dont give a crap if its the Oilers, pull the trigger on that puppy. Also saw Bob Mackenzie tweet Bobby Ryan may be available. Howson & Nash may find themselves alone on the dance floor here pretty quick.

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#32 JumpJet
June 19 2012, 07:09PM
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@FireOnIce

My thinking with those teams is getting their top 5 pick. You would have to ask Kipper to waive his no trade clause, of course, since it hasn't expired yet. If the Flames were to include their #14 pick they could get a nice return.

Neiderreiter and Hamonic from NYI would be good options. Hamonic has put up some pretty good numbers in his first two years from what I've seen.

From Columbus I would look into Nikita Nikitin. He's an RFA but played pretty well after being traded, I believe.

With the Leafs, you would also have to look more at prospects than there current roster players. I don't think you could pry Jake Gardiner away, but maybe Nazim Kadri, Joe Colborne or Stuart Percy. Maybe consider Nicolai Kulemin? He's also an RFA an shouldn't cost much more than his last contract of $2.350M given his poor season last year.

Those are only a few ideas, and that's not including J-Bo.

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#33 Baalzamon
June 19 2012, 07:29PM
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@JumpJet

"With the Leafs, you would also have to look more at prospects than there current roster players."

Jesse Blacker. He isn't anything special, but he's easily better than any defenseman currently in the Flames' system (unless you still count Brodie as a prospect, of course). He also has a right handed shot. If the Flames were to target a Leafs prospect, I think Blacker would be the most likely choice (at least out of players the Leafs would be open to trading)

although, a trade involving Kiprusoff should likely include a goalie for the Flames' interests. The 5th and Gustavsson (and more?)?

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#34 Alt
June 19 2012, 09:08PM
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21 lost time incidents since Dec/07.Can,t seem to stop the shoulder and ankle injuries.That will end up being the deciding factor in retaining his services

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#35 Franko J
June 19 2012, 10:13PM
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While healthy Moss is a good energy guy. I think he is probably going to see what the interest for his services are with free agency. Like Babchuk, the Flames will play the wait and see game with a few of the free agents that they would like to retain. Moss maybe one of them.

I could see Detroit, Dallas and Buffalo maybe looking at him in free agency. Outside chance with Florida.

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#36 Sincity1976
June 19 2012, 10:38PM
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The Flames have cap space and RW is one of the few positions with a number of players available via free agency. I wouldn't limit the choices to the players the Flames have in the system.

Of the Flames free agents I like Comeau and Stempniak over Moss. Both have more upside without the injury risk.

If Moss is willing to sign at around a million then I don't mind putting him on the fourth line as a depth option. But I wouldn't count on him in the top 9.

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#37 JumpJet
June 19 2012, 11:57PM
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@Baalzamon

I hadn't heard of Jesse Blacker before you mentioning him, but he seems to be regarded as one of the best defenceman in the OHL right now.

I'm not sure the Flames would need to trade for a goaltender if they could convince Kari Ramo to sign and come over. Trading Kipper should be more than enough reason for Ramo to leave the KHL, since he has stated he doesn't want to be playing backup for a goalie who's going to play 60-70 games a year. I would be content with Ramo and Irving in net for the coming year, but I also don't believe in the "going for it" mentality the actual Flames management seem to have. If one of those two don't emerge as a solid #1 option, not saying they would have to be Vezina candidates, then you pursue something in the next off-seaon.

Also, Jonas Gustavsson is a UFA this July, and I haven't seen any indication that the Leafs are going to re-sign him.

Dan Ellis, Andrew Raycroft, Scott Clemmensen, Martin Biron, Alex Auld and Michael Leighton could also be available in free agency and have all had at least some success in past. So there are options in net.

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#38 I'm Just Sayin'
June 20 2012, 03:45AM
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Domebeers.com wrote:

Moss would be fine at 500K on the fourth line. Good option to play third or more if injuries happen.

Too bad the organization gave away that spot to 80 year old Tim Jackman.

If Moss is on the fourth line, instead of Jackman, who's gonna drop the mitts? If we had more guys with jam like Tim, we'd be in a far better place.

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#39 I'm Just Sayin'
June 20 2012, 03:54AM
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The problem with David is, he has the worst luck (almost) of anybody on the team, when he gets on a roll he falls (tripped) into the boards and sprains his ankle or breaks his foot blocking a shot. I like him, but he is getting older and we need to get some younger UFA's signed.

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#40 everton fc
June 20 2012, 01:58PM
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@I'm just sayin;

Move Jackman w/Kipper to the Jackets. Pickup Dorsett, put him on the left side. That's one option. And he's a better fighter than Jackman, not to mention a better player. And younger.

If we had a guy like Engelland replacing Sarich... That's be another option.

Neither likely to happen, of course!

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#41 Baalzamon
June 20 2012, 07:11PM
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@JumpJet

"I hadn't heard of Jesse Blacker before you mentioning him, but he seems to be regarded as one of the best defenceman in the OHL right now."

he was, until he moved on to the Marlies (AHL). He had an okay first season.

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