Flames Picks Round 5-7

Kent Wilson
June 23 2012 10:49AM

 

 

Ryan Culkin, D - 124th overall

Culkin is a defender from the Quebec Ramparts of QMJHL. He's the third defenseman picked by the Flames in this draft, making Jankowski the only forward chosen in the top-125 by Calgary. Culkin is a 6'1", 175 pound blueliner who scored 6 goals and 25 points in 60 games. Like many other Flames picks in this draft, he's described as a player with good hockey sense. Boucher scouting has an in-depth one game scout report and even summary on Culkin here.

 Coda Gordon, LW - 165 overall

Flames go back to their WHL roots with the Gordon pick. A winger with the Swift Current Broncos, Gordon scored 30 goals and 53 points in 66 games, good for second on the team. He's described as a forward who has a great shot and good physical play, but below average skating.

Matthew Deblouw, C - 186 overall

The Flames rounded things out with a 6', 185 pound center out of the UHSL, Deblouw put up 11 goals and 34 points for Muskegan. He was the 51st ranked NA skater by Central scouting at the end of the year.

Thus concludes the Flames 2012 entry draft. Calgary went heavy on defenders and players from Quebec and United States leagues/development systems, which is a big departure from previous habits under the former regime. Jankowski was the Flames lone high reward type choice in this draft, while the rest of the choices were defensible, but far more middle of the road.

It's apparent the Flames think there is some value in scouting Quebec and relatively minor feeder leagues like the USHL right now. We'll see if their intuition proves correct. 

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Former Nations Overlord. Current FN contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#51 If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin
June 23 2012, 10:09PM
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Where the hell did all this hype for Girgensons come from???? Man, I guess in a weak draft some people will talk up third line grinders. A lot of scouts have questioned his ability to put up offense at the NHL level. And remember folks, he plays in the USHL, a gentlemans' league if there ever was one. A tough, gritty guy in that league is an average Joe in the CHL. Yes, there is a very, very small chance he may turn into Ryan Getzlaf, but more likely he will just be a third-line center, albeit a good one.

We already got a guy like him in Arnold and a better player, imo, in Reinhart. We need to take risks on top line talent, not bottom six forwards, who may play on the second line if everything goes well. (I am a bit upset over Teravainen. Kid sounds like another Baertshi)

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#52 nolan moore
June 23 2012, 11:35PM
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@BurningSensation

Hey buying, do u work for the Flames? Gotta say based on the question "did the Flames improve this weekend?" No. This failing grade

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#53 Baalzamon
June 23 2012, 11:40PM
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@I'm Just Sayin'

u mad bro? BurningSensation is one of the most positive people around here about the draft.

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#54 Franko J
June 24 2012, 12:22AM
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@ I'm just Saying Sorry I offended you with my opinion. I find this to be great forum with excellent dialogue and feedback from fellow fans of the Flames. That all I was looking for. As a fan my passion to see this team succeed runs deeper than most. So if I came across negative I apologize. Sorry but I've been through it all with this team I really don't care to cheer for any other team but the one with the flaming C.

Hey all I was asking was Jankowski their #1 choice? Where did you hear that his name was sewn on the jersey? I missed that point. As well, I had on my mock draft in the 7th round Ryan Culkin only with curiosity it would like to see how close my picks were with the Flames scouting staff. I thought Pouliot might have been their 1st choice and when the Penquins made the move at 8 that is when I thought Calgary might be trading down. I didn't see Jankowski as a pick, even with all the rumblings and the rumors which started earlier in the week. I really thought it was going to be Gaunce. When it wasn't I was quite relieved.

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#55 Kevin R
June 24 2012, 01:32AM
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Burning Sensation: Know what, its my right to not like whats going on just as much as your right to drink the cool-aid. If you read my post, my annoyance isnt about the picks that were made, its about the coke machines who dont finish as per your words, that are still there that maybe we could have gotten a few quarters back. Ceci & Teravanian were plums that fell to us & we should have scooped one of them & gave up one of the coke machines to get go after Jankowski. Had we done that, you would see a lot more happy campers posting on this site.

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#56 If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin
June 24 2012, 01:55AM
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Kevin R wrote:

Burning Sensation: Know what, its my right to not like whats going on just as much as your right to drink the cool-aid. If you read my post, my annoyance isnt about the picks that were made, its about the coke machines who dont finish as per your words, that are still there that maybe we could have gotten a few quarters back. Ceci & Teravanian were plums that fell to us & we should have scooped one of them & gave up one of the coke machines to get go after Jankowski. Had we done that, you would see a lot more happy campers posting on this site.

And what makes you so confident that both of the players you mention are destined for greatness? You read a few scouting reports on the internet; watched a couple of mock drafts like the rest of us. There must have been pressing issues with both that they went in the middle of the first round, as oppossed to being selected in the top ten.

Neither guy is a lock to be an NHLer. The fact they fell to the middle of the round in a pretty weak draft says it all. In fact, given the history of the NHL draft, the percentages are working against both in terms of their chances of making it to the big show at all, let alone as stars. Few outside the top ten are a lock traditionally, and that applies to Jankowski, as well. I can respect the fact that multiple scouts from the org. chose him after their viewings rather than taking their cues from media types or fans like us who follow the latter.

In my book, all of them have great upside, but whether it is realized will be revealed in the next few years. So lets sit back, relax, and see how this thing plays out before getting a lynching party together. Or at the very least tell me how you definitively know that the aforementioned will be NHL stars, as the scouting staff of the top ten drafting teams surely didn`t and history shows that the bulk of superstars usually come from the first 5-10 picks.

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#57 I'm Just Sayin'
June 24 2012, 05:13AM
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@Franko J

It was shown on Flames TV and also on Fan960, Boomer mentioned it. Weisbrod is a smart guy (Harvard grad) and so is Feaster (Law Degree}. If people would look beyond his appearance and listen to what he says, he is putting people in place to make the process more science than luck. The problem with other drafts is, we have not got lucky like some other teams (Detroit) and had star players come out of the woodwork. Look at Detroit's first round draft record and it is not a glowing endorsement for their scouting department either.

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#59 Alt
June 24 2012, 09:56AM
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Teravanein,s name on the board at 14 seemed a gift.The Flames chose to not accept that gift,so the comparisons Teravanien for Jankowski/Sielloff will be made for years to come.Hope they got it right,as it,s a huge gamble

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#60 Franko J
June 24 2012, 10:03AM
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I'm Just Sayin' wrote:

It was shown on Flames TV and also on Fan960, Boomer mentioned it. Weisbrod is a smart guy (Harvard grad) and so is Feaster (Law Degree}. If people would look beyond his appearance and listen to what he says, he is putting people in place to make the process more science than luck. The problem with other drafts is, we have not got lucky like some other teams (Detroit) and had star players come out of the woodwork. Look at Detroit's first round draft record and it is not a glowing endorsement for their scouting department either.

For the most part, Calgary for some reason struggles with their # 1 pick becoming an impact player on the team. I find they do better drafting players from rounds 3 - 6. Maybe because of the expectations aren't as high and they are given the time to develop.

Listening to the FAN 960 yesterday and hearing the draft analysis from Wiesbrod and Button it was interesting to know that they have a plan in place and a mandate in mind to follow. With a previous blog I initially thought there was a power struggle between Wiesbrod and Button, after hearing them yesterday I couldn't be more wrong.

Drafting players is the first step in the process. The key is how you develop them. Returning back to a point you made about Detroit, why do the picks they make look so good when they make the team - they understand that drafting a player is only 10% of the process and 90% is development.

Whether it is Jankowski @ pick 21 or Deblouw in the 7th round, they all develop at a different pace and it is up to player development now to give them the proper tools to succeed.

For example, Ryan Howse was struggling with his overall fitness and what did the Flames management do, hire a nutritionist and fitness coach exclusively for the Heat. By the end of the season and prior to his injury he was making strides. I don't if he will or won't make the big club come next season, but what I do like when I heard this story is that the Flames are placing an emphasis on development. Akeem Aliu is another example.

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#61 Colin
June 24 2012, 10:57AM
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For anyone in favour of a rebuild this draft should be a shinning become of hope to them. Pretty well all except for the two WHL defenders are probably all 4-5 years away from even playing the NHL.

With the Flames pretty well not going to be very good for the foreseable future, we may get some more high draft picks in the coming years, add that to Jankowski and Sieloff who may take 4 years, but may be top end guys, and in 4-5 years you may have a great young nucleous and emerge from a 3-4 year rebuild vs taking 5-7 or more years.

There is a lot to not like, but there is also a lot to like and a lot of intrigue in this years draft. Last year got us a nice bunch of players from very few picks and even last year there were bitchers and complainers we took a small swiss kid over the big western Canadian kid Mark McNeil(drafted by Chicago oddly enough, like this year with Teravainen). That picked worked out fantastically and this Jankowski pick in 3-4 years may work out better than that. Course it could also end up like the hindenburg, sure, but the draft is a reason for optimism and for now, thats how I will remain.

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#62 RexLibris
June 24 2012, 12:40PM
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@ Kent

"Feel free to continue the debate, but let's make sure things don't get too personal."

http://yourmotherwasahamster.com/

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#63 RexLibris
June 24 2012, 12:54PM
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With regards to the Jankowski "reach", the trading down and so on:

I break down the Flames first round into three issues. The first is the trading down. I have no problems here really, as it is good asset management. Passing on some skilled players isn't the best, but under the circumstances it was a good option.

*as a quick aside I believe that Feaster was trying to move up when Grigorenko began to fall. Failing that he moved down.

My real problem with the Flames first round comes in the circumstance I alluded to. Feaster needed to recoup a 2nd round pick. The same one he traded away. His poor asset management at last year's draft (compounded by Regehr's refusal to waive) was redeemed only partially by the improved management this June. That is a saw-off in my opinion.

Next, I feel that Jankowski is a reach. More than Lindholm? Not by a country mile, but a reach nonetheless. Jankowksi would likely have been around in the 2nd round and the Flames, as I have said before, cannot afford to gamble with their first round picks. If the Flames had selected Maatta at #21 they would very likely have still been able to come out with Jankowski in round 2.

If the draft is a mixture of quality and quantity then the Flames have put all of their 2012 eggs into one proverbial basket in Jankowski. Feaster's comments on him being the best player of the draft ten years from now are, in my opinion, irresponsible and reminiscent of the "Vincent Lecavalier is the Michael Jordan of hockey" comments from two decades ago. They set unrealistc expectations and tranlate too easily as false bravado.

As for the Oilers, they certainly did reach in taking Moroz. I had him pegged for the 3rd round. I'm not a fan of the pick. Not with Thrower, Frk, and others still available. That being said, it wasn't a "cutting off one's arm" length of reach. Moroz was predicted as a late-2nd early-3rd round pick by many sources.

I like the Coda Gordon pick for the Flames. He is one I think fans should watch.

Our rush to judge this draft only 24 hours after its completion though isn't going to get us very far. I will say, though, that I believe this draft was underwhelming when compared to more recent years.

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#64 Baalzamon
June 24 2012, 12:56PM
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there's also a good mix in this draft class. Not nationality wise, since they're all NA players, but league wise. With Sieloff heading for Windsor, and Culkin playing for Quebec, the Flames now have prospects in all three CHL leagues. Add a couple WHL kids (Kulak and Gordon) and some guys headed for NCAA (Jankowski, Gillies, DeBlouw), this draft shows the Flames' widening scouting scope.

No Euros though... surprising. Would've liked Bystrom in round 2.

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#65 Alt
June 24 2012, 01:32PM
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Rex you allude to Feaster poor management skills last year in the Regher trade.The second round pick in that deal was the result of the player taking his time in waving his NTF.What is it you think Feaster should have done to improve that situation.There was also a second dynamic in play here ,as Buffalo took Kotalik off the Flames roster

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#66 RexLibris
June 24 2012, 02:34PM
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@Atl

Sorry in advance for this rant. It isn't directed at you, but more so at the Flames management and some of their media apologists.

I know that Regehr really put the boots to the Flames in delaying his decision and this resulted in the inclusion of a 2nd in order to find balance in the trade (Kotalik's inclusion taken into account as well). But I honestly feel that Kotalik, a player with whom Buffalo had some familiarity, could have been dumped for far less than a 2nd round pick. It was a poor sweetener to that deal. Or Feaster might have downgraded the pick and instead taken fewer prospects in return. Would the Flames have been better off with that pick rather than Byron or Butler?

I know that Kotalik's contract was akin to the toxic mortgages in the market and that the Flames had to pay to make it go away, but if dealing that pick was looked upon so quickly in hindsight as a poor move, then why the eagerness to do so again for 2013?

I'm not being critical here because I like picking on Feaster or the Flames. He isn't an upper echelon GM, in my opinion, but there are certainly worse options around. And I don't troll the Flames.

My criticism comes from experience. I've seen this before and it was during an extended period of ownership-fueled idiocy. A team chasing it's tail moving picks and assets around the chessboard without any clue as to their continually diminishing returns.

If the Flames and Feaster have the patience to continue this pattern for the next five years that is perfectly within their rights. And I know that I may well be wrong about all of this, but as yet I have not seen a clear indication of a pattern of prioritizing one kind of asset above another in a way that indicates this management group has a clear grasp of their situation and the hurdles ahead.

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#67 Alt
June 24 2012, 02:57PM
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I,ve been trying hard to figure out this management and all it,s assistant management.A team chasing it,s tail may very well be what we,re witnessing here in Calgary.

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#68 suba steve
June 24 2012, 03:14PM
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Rex

What would YOU rather have, a 2nd round draft pick (#43) or $2,000,000.00? I guess Feaster decided to keep the cash. Seems to me the Flames were going to have to pay Kotalik, one way or the other. So, what is the actual cash value of that 2nd round pick? Seems it is approximately $2 million.

That whole trade was very disapointing at the time. After hearing the speculation that we would probably be getting Buffalo's 1st (#16), along with roster player(s). Looking back, it doesn't sting quite so bad. It was certainly an interesting trade, one that would not have happened pre-cap.

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#69 BurningSensation
June 24 2012, 04:05PM
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@RexLibris

"My criticism comes from experience. I've seen this before and it was during an extended period of ownership-fueled idiocy. A team chasing it's tail moving picks and assets around the chessboard without any clue as to their continually diminishing returns."

I agree to a point. There was definitely a hangover between Sutter and Feaster that took a season to clear up (with Feaster's reign really starting when Weisbrod and Chris Snow were hired).

I think the Regehr deal worked out well for the Flames on two levels; Butler is cheaper and (IMO) played better than Regehr, and Kotalik + 2nd for Byron cleared out one of the worst contracts in franchise history and brought back a solid AHL vet who can lead the kiddie corps and sub in when injuries hit. The only downside for me in the deal wa.s the 2nd, and as mentioned that wasat least partly the fault of Regehr dragging his feet. So a good deal, with the downside being that we dealt away an asset in the pick our plan would normally be to keep.

Since that deal we heard repeatedly from Feaster that he wanted to recoup the pick. So it wasn't like the bad ole days where assets moved in and out without purpose, more like some housecleaning that had to be done before taking he car out for a spin.

As it stands the majority of Feaster's moves have made us younger, brought in talent from otherwise unsourced locales (the KHL), and trimmed our cap hits. I certainly think he's got a plan in place, and with the exception of a few hiccups (Erixon), they look to be executing it.

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#70 BurningSensation
June 24 2012, 04:20PM
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@Franko J

"For the most part, Calgary for some reason struggles with their # 1 pick becoming an impact player on the team. I find they do better drafting players from rounds 3 - 6. Maybe because of the expectations aren't as high and they are given the time to develop."

Certainly true for the previous two GM regimes, as the only pick we really hit extra bases with in the last 10 years was Phaneuf (in an absolutely LOADED draft - where we should have taken Getzlaf).

I don't think its an accident that Feaster's first real draft saw us land an impact player.

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#71 RexLibris
June 24 2012, 05:04PM
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@steve

Small, non-sequential, unmarked bills please.

;-)

Seriously, what I think Feaster ought to have done (and yes, I know this is a conceited thing to do at times) was to focus: if you want to move Regehr, then move Regehr. If you want (need) to move Kotalik, then move Kotalik.

Why couldn't he have leveraged Regehr's value against the Kotalik contract? It would have meant taking less from Buffalo in return, but retaining more of the franchise's internal assets (picks).

Breaking down the trade it looks almost like Feaster started crafting a deal and it just grew and grew until he was sending out good money (picks) after bad.

I guess much of my criticism over that (and by extension the Cammalleri trade) comes from my own opinion on the state of the team. Feaster and his team believe that the Flames are one or two pieces away and he wanted to clear the cap space in order to sign Richards.

In my estimation the Flames are indeed only two players away, but from an entirely different outcome than the one Feaster imagines.

Based on that, Feaster would be of the opinion that a 2nd round pick is a small price to pay for the cap space needed to sign Richards. Whereas, a team that has the kinds of holes that the Flames do, and in the state that I believe it to be, needs those picks much more than cap space for whale hunting.

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