Flames Fan Ask - October 12, 2013

Christian Roatis
October 12 2013 10:44AM

 

 

Our popular (it's popular right?) segment Fan Ask is back for another week! This week we'll talk 4 goal celly's, Monahan and the Flames' hot start - nothing really out of left field. If you want to submit a question that will appear in this weekly feature, submit something here.
 
So let's start with Jumbo Joe:

What are your thoughts on Botchford publishing Thornton's quote?
 
Ok, so before I answer this, for the six of you that don't know what happened, here's a little back story:
 
San Jose Sharks captain Patrick Marleau was partaking in a media scrum in the Sharks locker room and was inevitably asked about teammate Tomas Hertl's 4 goal night and the between the legs shot he used on his fourth goal. Thornton overheard the question and was probably sick and tired of his teammates having to answer the same asinine question about it threw in his two cents.
 
Note: Since we here at FN are a family friendly website and my mom is looking over my shoulder as a type this, I've replaced any expletive words with "Jumbo Joe". Also because it's more fun this way.
 
He first hollers at the reporters to "Shut up" and when the scrum turns to him, he tastefully adds “I’d have my Jumbo Joe out if I scored four goals. I’d have my Jumbo Joe out, Jumbo Joe-ing it.” Interesting. How do I do that celly in NHL 14?
 
Now, I've been in locker rooms as a player and this doesn't even come close to touching the type of stuff said in there. After all, boys will be boys and there isn't a time we show it more than in the locker room. Nothing is off limits, however it's said with the expectation it stays within the confines of the room. Obviously the minor hockey I played didn't come with the media parade that accomponies NHL teams but every single reporter in every single NHL city has heard these types of remarks from players and no one has reported it - obviously because they realize that, like Vegas, what happens in the locker room stays in the locker room.
 
So you can plant me firmly in the, "Botchford published the quote for the page hits and attention" group because that's exactly why I think he did it. He's undoubtedly heard this stuff thousands of times during his career so why did he choose to go public with this particular one? I don't know, maybe his views have been down recently but point is, he shouldn't have done it.
 
Sean Monahan, keep him or send him down?
 
Keep him. Not because he leads the team in scoring or because he's a good sell for the fans, but because he's ready to play in the NHL and he'll develop better in the NHL than the OHL. Looking at his game through 5 games, there are only two things I can pick out as weaknesses in his game: One being face-offs and the other being the occasional slip up in the defensive zone - whether it be a lost assignment or puck battle.
 
Starting on the faceoff front, he won't get better at facing off against NHL calibre centerman in the OHL, plain and simple.
 
The defensive zone issue should also be viewed in the same manner, in my opinion. He was praised for his effort in his own third of the ice last year in the OHL so sending him back will only yield the same result and stagnate his development. Yeah, it won't hurt him but it won't benefit him either. Defending against, again, NHL calibre forwards and learning on the fly in the show is the best way of going about it for a physically mature Monahan. I'm also willing to bet that the Flames will let him go to the World Junior's in December either way so he won't be missing out on that opportunity.
 
Are you surprised about the Flames' start?
 
I was surprised about the Washington game but after seeing the way they played and that they were keeping the work ethic and commitment to the system consistent, I really wasn't surprised about the outcomes of the other games. Sometimes hard work beats out skill and the 3-0-2 Flames have proved just that.
 
Do you think the hot start puts a damper on the rebuild and the quest for a top pick?
 
Ok, so I'll answer this in two parts,
 
1) The hot start accelerates the rebuild rather than hurts it because they've established an identity and culture, and thankfully in the process have avoided being caught in the situation the Oilers find themselves in of being so used to losing without consequence that when it comes time to actually win, they can't really find it in them to compete. At the end of the day the Flames will more than likely find themselves outside of the playoff picture, but at least they something really tangible to build off of.
 
2) Technically collecting points hurts their odds of finishing last but who cares?! They're winning games and putting on a heck of a show doing so.

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Christian Roatis is a European by birth, Calgarian by heart. Other than writing at FlamesNation, he writes about and scouts NHL Draft Prospects at Future Considerations. Follow him on Twitter @CRoatis!
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#51 Peter
October 12 2013, 12:16PM
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2) Technically collecting points hurts their odds of finishing last but who cares?! They're winning games and putting on a heck of a show doing so.

I agree. I have always liked the fact that the Flames are the only NHL team (?) in the last 40 years to finish no worse than 6th from the bottom. That may happen this year but fortunately they're hard work in the early going provides proof that they can have a decent year. A little history repeating?...40 years ago the Flames again had the sixth selection, traded it to Montreal to move up to #2 and took Tom Lysiak, a center who led them to respectability. Hopefully Monahan (and astute drafting) can help them accomplish the same thing again.

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#52 Kevin R
October 12 2013, 12:26PM
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Captain Ron wrote:

I know that what we are watching is a bit of a mirage and they will no doubt have a losing streak creep up on them that last for a few games, and they will probably lose a lot more than they win when all is said and done.

But what is most inspiring about this group is that they are all pulling in the same direction, they seem to genuinely care about each other and their results on the ice. So the culture change we have been wanting for a long time is unfolding in front of us right now. The fans is the stands can see it and feel it. I don't ever remember being in the building this early in a season and witnessing the paying customers stand up and cheer this loudly after a successfully defended flurry by the opposition, a blocked shot or two, a great save, or after some sustained pressure in the other teams end of the rink like I am seeing this year. It is fun to go to the games again. Win or lose this is so much better than that crap we were subjected to for a few years. (culprits names withheld)

The coaching staff and management has their attention. The leaders on the team are leading and the early results are impressive.

Well said my fellow Golden Retriever fan. What I have started to notice these last few games is that Monahan & Sven are starting to get that chemistry. I think Sven is feeding off of Monahan's electricity that he had during that emergency call up, & seemed to have lost it. Monahan is not only scoring & providing a thrill for fans but he may very well be bringing out the best of our next biggest asset in Sven. I for one am totalling starting to embrace the change of the crappy culture we have endured for far too long. This is so exciting & I am sure it is not lost on Ownership & upper management.

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#53 exsanguinator
October 12 2013, 11:59PM
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Liking Monahan so far, even if his SH% falls back to earth, somewhere in the 8% region, he would still be good for 17 goals. I hope he stays. He's not going to develop in junior and if he falls off the boat then he will be eligible for the AHL next season.

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#54 everton fc
October 13 2013, 12:34AM
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Baalzamon wrote:

Big saves does not equal good goalie.

He's kept us in games and made clutch saves at key points of games we've won. So far. That's all I'm saying. And all I'm saying MacDonald deserves credit for, at this point.

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#55 Kevin R
October 13 2013, 11:30AM
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Walter white wrote:

@ Clyde

Stop insinuating that he IS a Worthwhile prospect....much too early to tell.

I'm a big fan of all of our prospects, and hope they all make the show, but that should not get in the way of looking at the stats........albeit only 6 games in. WW

Then stop judging them with small sample sizes. Also what are you comparing to & evaluating on? Obviously this kid is a shut down dman, those stats you spewed should say that's fantastic. If he was 1st PP & all OS maybe you might expect different numbers. I love how stats compliment discussing players. I think as time goes by you will really be able to make reasonable profile & predictions of performance. Right now, its starting to be looked at more by Joe fan but it ticks me off when many quickly judge & pigeon hole young players like you seem to be. There are going to be players that score top of the class on all the numbers & stats one year only to see them crap the bed the next year. When you deal with human behavior you just cannot ignore environmental factors in performance. This is true in sports & in the workplace. It is also in health, we call it stress.

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#56 Baalzamon
October 13 2013, 06:30PM
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Jeff Lebowski wrote:

To sing the praises of David Jones vs You.

Hey now. I haven't said anything negative about Jones for days. Literally. Days.

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#57 jason knapp
October 13 2013, 07:17PM
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I love this porier kid he make flames next year guarantee

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#58 beloch
October 13 2013, 08:53PM
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jason knapp wrote:

I love this porier kid he make flames next year guarantee

Poirier had a great camp and showed a ton of promise, but I'm betting on at least a year in the AHL first. It's a looooong way from the QMJHL to the NHL! He's a couple months younger than Monahan and, if the QMJHL has the same agreement with the AHL as the CHL, would actually be ineligible to play in the AHL *next* season were he just two weeks older! He's undoubtedly ready for the AHL now though. Those AHL age agreements really seem to delay the occasional prospect.

Kanzig is a player who has a lot of raw tools, size, hockey intelligence, and an elite work ethic. However, he just hasn't put it all together yet, plus his skating is currently a bit of an impediment. Even shut-down defenders usually put up respectable offensive stats in the WHL, so his lack of offense up until now has been a concern. He really looked better offensively in the preseason than his stat-sheet indicated though. I'm willing to wager he will put up some offense this season and his skating will improve substantially by next summer's camp. He's a bit of a high-risk/long-term project, like Janko was when he was drafted, but there is definitely upside far beyond an enforcer there.

Speaking of Jankowski... 2 goals in 2 games so far this season. Promising!

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#59 SmellOfVictory
October 14 2013, 01:48AM
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Jeff Lebowski wrote:

What you enjoy winning is the argument that Feaster sucks. It's clear you don't want to acknowledge Flame success because that means giving Feaster credit.

This Feaster bashing is the extent of your 'content'.

As for advanced stats? You don't bring anything interesting. Re hashing stats over and over, regression to mean.

You don't add anything to 'stats'. When you do try to innovate we get..... Icing differential.

Trust me, I know about the value of AS in sports. Hockey is more complex than the stats here can explain.

Corsi. The shot is the loudest signal you can look for. Counting it, and turning into a stat around which most content is generated is weak. No info about nuance of game.

CGY V MTL 15 scoring chances 29 total shots

15 scoring area shots, 14 non scoring chance shots

Corsi differentiates between those shots used in its calculation? Nope. Yet you guys tell us what's happening underneath? You have no clue.

Jesus Christ. It's been discussed countless times that there is no statistically significant difference in shot quality, long term, between teams. That means that, for the purposes of determining which team is better than the other offensively or defensively, a shot is a shot.

On the individual level this probably doesn't hold, but it's still a lot better than people arguing anecdotal nonsense and coming to no agreement.

There's also the fact, as per usual, that Corsi is a measurement of possession time. Possession time doesn't depend on how high the quality of a shot is. It just means your team has the puck, which means the other team doesn't, which is a good thing.

There is absolutely nuance to hockey that is not captured in any statistics, but the long and short of it is: shot differentials are a very good indicator of ability level given a proper sample size.

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#60 Jeff Lebowski
October 14 2013, 01:18PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

"Getting really sick of the negativity, Feastser bashing going on here. Let it go!"

Please show me where, on this thread, anyone has bashed Feaster. Just one example. Because I'm having tremendous difficulty finding one.

The only bashing going on is Jeff Lebowski lunging at anything that moves.

Look, I respect you and your opinions. The Feaster bashing may not be on THIS particular thread but it IS a constant theme. Lambert- to be fair, he has improved in this regard.

Perhaps even you have had some, less than flattering statements about Feaster.

The larger point I was hinting at was that there is a never ending search to be negatively critical about all things Flames.

While it is enjoyable to look at ways to improve, should we also not celebrate the successes?

It comes down to balance.

By clicking on the past articles one could do an experiment to judge such balance.

When the focus is on being critical, seeking the negatives aren't we just doing what the late, great Townes Van Zandt (If you've never heard of him...Steve Earle called him the greatest songwriter in history)sang,

"Waitin around to die"?

This fanbase wants to celebrate the successes, however ultimately fleeting.

Why crush that? I guess it's just a matter of personality and taste.

-Why do you take things so seriously? Were you really hurt? Why is it ok for people to be harsh on individuals not able (or don't care) to defend themselves on a forums like these (David Jones) and when they are scrutinized (to such a relatively minor way) its

Whaaaaaaa somebody call the whambulance!

In short, stop being such a crybaby.

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#61 T&A4Flames
October 12 2013, 11:16AM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

More updates on prospects, Jankowski scored twice for Providence in opener, also Johny Hockey had an assists. Poirier player of the the month in the Q.

I had a gut feeling about Janko this weekend. Hope those 2 goals translate to some quickly acquired confidence and rolls along throughout the season.

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#62 Jeff In Lethbridge
October 12 2013, 02:29PM
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piscera.infada wrote:

This is exactly what I was trying to get at. I think for the most part the fan base is fairly realistic about what this team is. While outsiders might want to peg the buzz around this team as a product of winning, I think it's more so about a team finally playing like a team - a team that wants to be there.

OK, you have been assigned the duty of informing the main stream media.

while this is true for me at least, is the media sophisticated enough to report something so abstract? I think not.

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#63 TRAV
October 12 2013, 02:33PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

My favourite thing about the whole Hertl trickshot fiasco is that Adam Oates flamed him for it, then said he "made a mistake". In what way did Hertl make a mistake? He was alone in front of the net, attempted to score, and succeeded. Where was the mistake made?

Talk about things being blown out of proportion for no reason.

TotAlly agree that this was a legit move. I think that Oates may have been a bit upset about the big celebration after. I think that this was like the ninth goal. Some (Oates) would say that you don't give a huge celebration to go up by seven with a few minutes left. In junior this would get you punched in the face for showing up an opponent.

If I scored four goals I would be excited too. I agree with you that Oates and others should be thrilled for some creative fun in hockey. Mountain out of a mole hill!

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#64 HongKongHockeyFan
October 12 2013, 08:48PM
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@beloch

Some very good points. In particular, it's been great to see that Hudler is assuming a leadership role, which shows that he may really want to stay in Calgary for the long-haul.

Personally, I was really worried that with the loss of Tanguay (despite all his flaws), that the Flames would see a steep drop off in playmaking skill. I think the Flames really need his vision and puck handling skills, whether he plays on the 1st or 3rd line.

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#65 ChinookArch
October 13 2013, 09:27AM
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beloch wrote:

Re: The Flames likely performance this season

The Flames are in the top third of the league for PDO, but their PDO is about the same as Toronto's was last season. The Flames' shooting percentage is in the top ten but goal-tending is bottom-ten. Calgary sh% is currently higher than Toronto's was last season, which was the highest in the league. We can expect it to regress a little. However, the goal-tending isn't likely to improve with MacBackup in net.

In short, Calgary has been good so far, but also lucky. For this team to keep winning when their luck turns, Ramo needs to play and he needs to be good.

I've been curious about Calgary's PDO so far, so thanks. It's reflective of exactly what I suspected. I don't have clear read on Bob Hartley at this point, so it's difficult to see what he is doing with his clear preference for MacDonald in net.

It's a stretch I know, but the only thing that makes logical sense is that the team is auditioning MacDoald for a trade. I say logical, because you would expect Hartly's number one concern is winning and MacDoanld cannot be viewed as his best chance of doing so. As I see it, there are 3 interchangeable goalies (Ramo, Berra, and MacDonald) in the stable plus 3 longterm projects (Brossoit, Gillies, and Ortio). This team does not need MacDonald and may want to get some asset back.

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#66 Clyde
October 13 2013, 06:35PM
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Walter white wrote:

@ Clyde

Stop insinuating that he IS a Worthwhile prospect....much too early to tell.

I'm a big fan of all of our prospects, and hope they all make the show, but that should not get in the way of looking at the stats........albeit only 6 games in. WW

Have you seen him or are you just trying to fit in with what was the popular opinion in July? As a 17 year old, he was the top pairing shutdown def. He comes to flames camp in amazing condition and does tremendously well. He is now back in the whl playing 25 minutes a game as an 18 year old and is a plus player playing an intimidating brand of hockey plus appears to be developing some offense. He is a very Worthwhile prospect

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#67 beloch
October 13 2013, 08:33PM
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@Jeff Lebowski

I didn't just show up. I've commented on Monahan's play after pretty much every game, and it's been positive. The stats say he's still sheltered but doing well, adapting to the NHL at a fantastic pace, and taking on more responsibility every game. You obviously haven't read a thing I've said and are just attacking me because I unwittingly gave you a target.

Well, that's enough feeding the trolls from me. You can have the last word now.

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#68 coachedpotatoe
October 14 2013, 09:24AM
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Kypreos wrote:

Wow

Getting really sick of the negativity, Feastser bashing going on here. Let it go!

Who really care if Monahan is playing protected minutes, he is 19 years old and played 5 games. Personally I don't care if he has all points on a open net, we have not had this much excitement about a Flames draft pick in a long time.

How about endorsing the flames mini run and how the team has pulled together to play like a team.

You watch the team play and you would swear you are watching the playoffs by how they are playing.

Going to the dome to watch a game has not been this exciting in a long time.

Just enjoy it!

Indeed.

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#69 Jeff Lebowski
October 14 2013, 02:06PM
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SmellOfVictory wrote:

Jesus Christ. It's been discussed countless times that there is no statistically significant difference in shot quality, long term, between teams. That means that, for the purposes of determining which team is better than the other offensively or defensively, a shot is a shot.

On the individual level this probably doesn't hold, but it's still a lot better than people arguing anecdotal nonsense and coming to no agreement.

There's also the fact, as per usual, that Corsi is a measurement of possession time. Possession time doesn't depend on how high the quality of a shot is. It just means your team has the puck, which means the other team doesn't, which is a good thing.

There is absolutely nuance to hockey that is not captured in any statistics, but the long and short of it is: shot differentials are a very good indicator of ability level given a proper sample size.

I truly do appreciate the rigor involved in such analysis. I'm really not trying to bash per se, I'm just 'demanding' better analysis.

Now, I could be luddite in this regard but corsi is not a proxy for possession for me.

In the example I used: 15 scoring chance shots, 14 non scoring chance shots, where are those 14 non scoring chance shots coming from? Think of it as 2 buckets of shot type.

When corsi is then tabulated is it taking from the dangerous bucket exclusively?

From what I gather from 'experts' corsi would indicate 'likely' possession.

So, scoring chance shots comprise 52% of total shots 48% non scoring chance.

Is this what likely means?

When you look at corsi (and I'm talking about per game - that was the point, using corsi for an n=1, not n=82) and its some positive number what bucket from above do the shots come from?

I understand the point you are making. It doesn't matter where the shot comes from. Fine. But wouldn't we see this strategy used in a game to the same degree?

I ask myself, what is the goal of the players on the ice - to shoot from anywhere OR to increase their likelihood of scoring by shooting at a closer proximity to the net and from the middle of the ice?

Do you see a large % of shots coming neutral zone (if shot location doesn't matter?)

Do you see teams trying to enter the offensive zone, make plays, POSSESS THE PUCK and create chances from prime locations? What % of the time?

To use an example, what is indicative of true, unquestionable possession:

A foray into the offensive zone, where the puck is cycled, sent low to high and shot on net (scoring chance shot) OR A player, heading for a change, crosses centre and fires a wrister on net (non scoring chance shot)

The problem I'm trying to have answered is, if 52% are indicative of the first example can we justifiably assume that is the likely nuance that brought about the shot? Doesn't the 48% show up ever? Yes, yes over the course of the season but that isn't how the stat is used.

Furthermore, FN seems to wait for the numbers (example of 23 first 4 games) to say things like:

'It looked to me like he was be out possessed and corsi (for 4 games) confirms this'

OR put another: I can use confirmation bias with this stat to support my point a posteriori. The opinion, or what you see during the game is shaped AFTER the data is crunched.

IF you used only scoring chance shots for corsi calculations that would be descriptive of who is really controlling the play.

The intention matters. The intention is to create scoring chances. The intention is not to hop over the boards, get the puck on your stick and shoot it from anywhere.

Now, I've seen enough hockey to know about 'shoot from anywhere' (perhaps there are a stat significant amount of goals scored from outside the scoring area - seems wrong though) but the statement that shot location doesn't matter is extremely hard to reconcile when you are watching games (at any level).

I truly do see the value. Just refine it.

PS-The key phrase in your response (to me) is statistically significant. What does that mean exactly? Does the implication lead one to think that there are equal number of goals scored from high % to low % shots OR there is just enough low % shot goals scored that we can 'scientifically' conclude significance? Lets say 10% of total goals are scored from low % shots. Depending on the threshold, you can say that is statistically significant. How you seem to use it is equal probability to score.

OK enough from me. I'M tired of my comments now haha.

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#70 Ryan Pike
October 12 2013, 11:19AM
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The team still has holes and warts - goaltending, their face-offs, their penalty kill, getting generally out-shot at even-strength. But their commitment to structured play and some luck is getting them points.

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#71 Walter white
October 12 2013, 12:20PM
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would Any of you flames fans still trade Monahan for any of the 3 first overall picks from the oilers? WW

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#72 coachedpotatoe
October 13 2013, 07:43AM
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While most of us are very happy with the results so far I doubt that many of us expect these results to continue, however we should all expect that the work ethic and team effort continues. I here in the media that we are a young team yet when I look at the line up I see the following players as young TJB, Bouma, Street, Monahan, Sven and one could include back's in this list. The rest are players who have been pros elsewhere and are new to the Flames. We still need to see how more of the prospects develop. The Heat lost last night scoring only one goal; Horak and lost in shoot out.(Evidence of a lack of the highly skilled forwards we will need at some point)It seems like some of our prospects need to pick their game up in Abbotsford, Ferland for one played quite well at the rookie tournie and in preseason here but has not seemed to have found his game at the AHL level. He is one guy that I have high hopes for in filling a key roster spot on the big club in a couple of years; power forward who has skills but play a physical game. Much like Bouma but with a higher top end. I also see Poirier in the same light but with his speed and finish at a higher end( he keeps scoring in Q and also takes penalties suggesting he is either physical or taking bad penalties)

I'm glad the big club is playing well and getting some results but in many ways I am more interested in the future and how the kids are developing; especially the forwards. On D I really think we have some prospects who will help fill out the top 6 in the not so distant future.

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#73 Walter white
October 13 2013, 08:25AM
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@Baalzamon

@ Clyde

Stop insinuating that he IS a Worthwhile prospect....much too early to tell.

I'm a big fan of all of our prospects, and hope they all make the show, but that should not get in the way of looking at the stats........albeit only 6 games in. WW

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#74 please cancel acct
October 13 2013, 10:50AM
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@ChinookArch

Hope you're right.A 4th round pick for Macdonald would be a WIN for management.

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#75 Nick24
October 14 2013, 01:50AM
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Mangotanker wrote:

Don Cherry saying that he didn't like what Hertl did, and since Herti's from the Czech Republic he didn't know hockey players aren't supposed to play the game like that. Gimme a break, it's a freaking game. If Hertl wants to embarrass Biron, Lundqvist, or whoevers in net with a move, I as a fan want to see it. It's what sells the game, and I loved Hertl's move. Sick of Cherry.

I agree that Cherry suggesting Hertl's play in the Czech Republic is why he didn't understand what to do in this situation, is a load of crap.

However there is a bit of truth to the notion that you shouldn't be trying to embarrass the other team. I think that the between the legs move he pulled is a legitimate move these days and that any NHL forward worth his salt could probably pull it off. That being said, celebrating in the way he did, especially when the score is 9-1 or whatever it was, is something that a hockey player should try not to do.

I was completely okay with the whole play until I thought how I'd feel if that was my goalie in net when that happened and I would have been pretty mad.

I mean good for Hertl for having a four goal night, but its not the first time he has scored and he is going to score again, so show a little respect.

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#76 kittensandcookies
October 14 2013, 10:36AM
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Hell I'm totally enjoying that they're winning. They're playing as a team, the young guys are doing things, I'm not watching a bunch of old players float around... I think things will start to tail off eventually but man this is the best Flames hockey in YEARS.

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#77 Baalzamon
October 14 2013, 10:52AM
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@Kypreos

"Getting really sick of the negativity, Feastser bashing going on here. Let it go!"

Please show me where, on this thread, anyone has bashed Feaster. Just one example. Because I'm having tremendous difficulty finding one.

The only bashing going on is Jeff Lebowski lunging at anything that moves.

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#78 kittensandcookies
October 14 2013, 02:15PM
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Hockey AS is in its infancy. Yes, you should demand better. I don't think right now it's extremely useful, the self-admitted correlation is too low for my liking (2/3... Blech).

But there are some interesting trends, and progress continues. Sure as hell beats GRITCHART.

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#79 Kypreos
October 14 2013, 10:44PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

"Getting really sick of the negativity, Feastser bashing going on here. Let it go!"

Please show me where, on this thread, anyone has bashed Feaster. Just one example. Because I'm having tremendous difficulty finding one.

The only bashing going on is Jeff Lebowski lunging at anything that moves.

Pathetic....

I rest my case...

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#80 Teamsupreme
October 12 2013, 11:19AM
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@coachedpotatoe

And Gilmour also had two goals, including the game winner.

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#81 Walter white
October 12 2013, 12:47PM
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More on prospects: Keegan Kanzig: 6 games, 0 points, 19 penalty minutes, +3 (I guess that is an improvement...). WW

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#82 BurningSensation
October 12 2013, 03:08PM
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TRAV wrote:

TotAlly agree that this was a legit move. I think that Oates may have been a bit upset about the big celebration after. I think that this was like the ninth goal. Some (Oates) would say that you don't give a huge celebration to go up by seven with a few minutes left. In junior this would get you punched in the face for showing up an opponent.

If I scored four goals I would be excited too. I agree with you that Oates and others should be thrilled for some creative fun in hockey. Mountain out of a mole hill!

Sure sounded like sour grapes to me from Oates.

Especially ironic given he was the setup man for one of the biggest goofs in NHL history.

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#83 Baalzamon
October 13 2013, 10:25AM
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@coachedpotatoe

Your opinion of who is "young" is... interesting. Ben Street is older than Backlund (2 years), Galiardi (1 year), and Russell (~3 months). And yet, Backlund is only an honourable mention, and Galiardi and Russell are ignored completely.

Is it possible you meant inexperienced?

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#84 please cancel acct
October 13 2013, 10:53AM
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In other news ,sure glad we didn't trade Iginla for Bernier last year.

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#85 Walter white
October 13 2013, 12:54PM
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@ Kevin R

Settle down Kevin, leave your work baggage at work, this is a hockey blog, the stress you are referring to comes from bringing your work home with you... Hockey and other sports are meant to take your mind off work stress.

Look at the bright side; has one goal already this year, that's one more than he had the 2 previous years combined!!

On a related note; I'm actually a big Kanzig fan...and a realist.

W

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#86 Walter white
October 13 2013, 07:14PM
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@Clyde

What part of "I'm a big Kanzig fan" don't you guys get?? I like the guy and hope he does well! I hope all flames prospects make the show (ok, except Max Reinhart; I can't stand that arrogant , lazy goof living off his last name, minus 26 in Abby last year!! Come on. Maybe we are holding on to him in case Sam comes into play next year??) WW

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#87 coachedpotatoe
October 14 2013, 08:05AM
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everton fc wrote:

Keep us posted on things in Abby. I, too, an pulling for Ferland. Has Horak looked good? And has Ferland looked bad?

I don't live in Abby but I frequently check their website especially after they play. I also spend some time trying to find out how our other prospects are doing. Unfortunately the Flames in the system is not as user friendly as I would like so it ends up being some work especially with the NCAA kids. It would be great if we had a contact who watches the kids in the various places and share with us their insights. Horak scored in the last game and it seems like Berra is playing well. Grandlund appears to be hurt but I have not found out what type of injury it might be. I like to think into the future and see what might be.

My observations using the most basic of stats is that we have some very good prospects outside the AHL. WE need to see them play more games before we assess them properly. Obviously Poirier is playing exceptionally well 17 points in 10 games. The college kids have not played enough games to get to excited about their stats yet. Do we have anyone in Flames Nations who is in Abby or contacts there.

As for all the discussion about advanced stats and Monahan playing protected minutes. I wonder how many other first year players who have been successful as rookies had the same experience; I suspect many. I would also suggest that this is good coaching. Again I believe that good coaching has many of these insights without all the stats; they may even have other stats that they use to confirm their insights. I am not against all the stats on this sight but they can and do lead to some disturbing discussions that distract from the bigger picture.

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#88 Captain Ron
October 14 2013, 11:45AM
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Nick24 wrote:

I agree that Cherry suggesting Hertl's play in the Czech Republic is why he didn't understand what to do in this situation, is a load of crap.

However there is a bit of truth to the notion that you shouldn't be trying to embarrass the other team. I think that the between the legs move he pulled is a legitimate move these days and that any NHL forward worth his salt could probably pull it off. That being said, celebrating in the way he did, especially when the score is 9-1 or whatever it was, is something that a hockey player should try not to do.

I was completely okay with the whole play until I thought how I'd feel if that was my goalie in net when that happened and I would have been pretty mad.

I mean good for Hertl for having a four goal night, but its not the first time he has scored and he is going to score again, so show a little respect.

I think that when he scored on that move his excited celebration was just as much from surprise that it actually went in the net. Youthful exuberance if you will.

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#89 kittensandcookies
October 14 2013, 01:41PM
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@Jeff Lebowski

Crazy CP posters have the cheering up to 11, FN can't even come close to dragging that down.

Are they still in denial over there that Iginla didn't fetch 15 first round picks and a re-incarnated Jesus back?

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#90 everton fc
October 13 2013, 10:40PM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

While most of us are very happy with the results so far I doubt that many of us expect these results to continue, however we should all expect that the work ethic and team effort continues. I here in the media that we are a young team yet when I look at the line up I see the following players as young TJB, Bouma, Street, Monahan, Sven and one could include back's in this list. The rest are players who have been pros elsewhere and are new to the Flames. We still need to see how more of the prospects develop. The Heat lost last night scoring only one goal; Horak and lost in shoot out.(Evidence of a lack of the highly skilled forwards we will need at some point)It seems like some of our prospects need to pick their game up in Abbotsford, Ferland for one played quite well at the rookie tournie and in preseason here but has not seemed to have found his game at the AHL level. He is one guy that I have high hopes for in filling a key roster spot on the big club in a couple of years; power forward who has skills but play a physical game. Much like Bouma but with a higher top end. I also see Poirier in the same light but with his speed and finish at a higher end( he keeps scoring in Q and also takes penalties suggesting he is either physical or taking bad penalties)

I'm glad the big club is playing well and getting some results but in many ways I am more interested in the future and how the kids are developing; especially the forwards. On D I really think we have some prospects who will help fill out the top 6 in the not so distant future.

Keep us posted on things in Abby. I, too, an pulling for Ferland. Has Horak looked good? And has Ferland looked bad?

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#91 Captain Ron
October 14 2013, 11:55AM
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Jeff In Lethbridge wrote:

nobody even coments on Botchford - hahaha what a loser.

i hope he gets blackballed

If I was looking for a reason to ignore Botchford more that I already do now I have one. The guy really comes across as an arrogant moron. Reporting on that (hilarious) exchange with Thornton in the dressing room is inexcusable. Absolutely can't stand the man. I hope TSN gets rid of that lame studs and duds segment for good and I never see that A holes face on TV again.

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#92 Baalzamon
October 14 2013, 11:12PM
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Kypreos wrote:

Pathetic....

I rest my case...

Real mature.

So I take it you couldn't find that example.

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#93 Kypreos
October 15 2013, 08:24PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

Real mature.

So I take it you couldn't find that example.

You know what is pathetic is your knit picking of everyone's comments.

Unreal

FYI

You should really go back and have a look yourself and you will find it...

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