Post-Game: Blood in the Water

Justin Azevedo
November 12 2013 10:42PM

Via the NHL

This was a game the Flames were never really in. 

Nor should they have been, really. San Jose's one of the best teams in the league, and the Flames, while not god awful, are nowhere near "good". The Sharks controlled the pace of the game literally the entire time. Despite all of that, the Flames were able to make it to overtime but ultimately lost 3-2 on former Flame Brad Stuart's OT winner.

The Rundown

The First period was not as quick as the Flames would've liked it to be, methinks. Less than 2 minutes in, the Sharks already had 5 shots. One of those shots was from Logan Couture, and it found the back of the net just 1:32 in. The Flames weren't able to reel the game in throughout the course of the period, giving up 14 EV shots (17 shots in total) while only mustering 3 themselves. Patrick Marleau would increase the Sharks lead with about 40 seconds to go in the period on a PP strike. 

The second was more of the same for the Flames, but without the goals against. Calgary did do a better job in keeping shots towards the outside in the second, bringing Reto Berra's workload down a little. The totals didn't come down, though, as the Sharks would add 11 more shots on the period compared to the Flames' 3.

Calgary would look a lot better in the third, keeping the Sharks at bay until a couple of questionable calls shifted the balance in their favour. Kris Russell would score the first of the game for the Flames less than 10 seconds into the Flames' second PP of the night to cut the lead to one. The goal also broke an 0-for-30 drought the Flames were having on the PP. The second goal for the Flames came off the stick of Mike Cammalleri (first round pick!), who in turn got his 8th of the year with less than 10 to go in the period. The remainder was back-and-forth, but a horrific giveaway at the end of the 3rd by TJ Brodie almost resulted in a goal against until Reto Berra and Lee Stempniak bailed him out. Shots were 6-6 in the period.

Overtime was short and not very sweet - just 1:19 in, Brad Stuart tipped a Joe Thornton shot past Reto Berra for the win.

Red Warrior

I'm going to go with Kris Russell, who has looked mighty good out there the past few games. He and Wideman are getting the high ground, but even with that in mind he has looked good. Could he be a legit top-4 defenseman? Let's hope so. 

Scoring Chances

Team Period Time Note Home Away State
Away 1 18:28 Couture goal 3 22 23 27 29 47 5 8 9 27 32 83 5v5
Away 1 15:44 Demers 7 18 29 39 44 54 5 19 27 32 48 57 5v5
Away 1 12:23 Pavelski 3 22 23 27 29 47 8 9 22 32 44 83 5v5
Away 1 10:26 Hertl PP 7 18 29 39 44   5 9 32 48 57 61 4v5
Away 1 8:47 Marleau 3 11 13 24 27 29 10 15 22 32 43 44 5v5
Away 1 7:17 Wingels 4 6 8 16 17 29 19 22 32 44 48 57 5v5
Away 1 7:06 Thornton tip 4 6 8 16 17 29 19 22 32 44 48 57 5v5
Away 1 5:30 Couture re-direct 4 6 11 13 24 29 5 12 27 32 39 81 5v5
Home 1 4:57 Jones 4 6 18 29 39 54 7 8 9 32 61 83 5v5
Away 1 0:56 Marleau PP goal 7 11 13 24 29 44 7 10 15 32 43 61 5v5
Home 2 17:07 Jones 7 18 29 39 44 54 5 19 27 32 48 57 5v5
Away 2 14:13 re-direct 3 6 8 16 17 29 5 19 27 32 48 57 5v5
Away 2 9:12 Couture 4 6 22 23 29 47 12 27 32 39 61 81 5v5
Away 2 7:03 Sheppard 3 18 27 29 39 54 5 10 15 27 32 83 5v5
Away 2 6:23 Kennedy 4 6 11 13 24 29 7 12 32 39 61 81 5v5
Away 2 3:42 Couture 7 18 29 39 44 54 5 12 27 32 39 81 5v5
Away 2 1:55 McCarthy 2on1 4 6 18 29 39 54 10 15 22 32 43 44 5v5
Away 2 0:47 Wingels 3 18 27 29 39 54 7 8 9 32 61 83 5v5
Home 3 19:27 Cammalleri 7 13 18 22 29 44 19 22 32 44 48 57 5v5
Home 3 13:10 Russell goal PP (screened) 4 13 22 23 24 29 7 12 19 27 32   5v4
Home 3 11:05 Stempniak tip PP 7 13 22 23 24 29 10 27 32 43 44   5v4
Away 3 9:58 Couture 6 7 22 23 29 54 12 22 32 39 44 81 5v5
Home 3 9:35 Cammalleri goal 3 6 23 24 29 47 5 8 9 27 32 83 5v5
Away 3 4:47 Stajan 6 13 18 22 29 44 19 22 32 44 48 57 5v5
Away 3 3:22 Marleau 4 6 13 18 22 29 7 12 15 32 39 61 5v5
Away 3 1:03 Wingles 7 23 24 29 44 47 7 19 32 48 57 61 5v5

 

# Player EV     PP     SH    
3 SMID, LADISLAV 16:50 1 6 00:00 0 0 00:00 0 0
4 RUSSELL, KRIS 19:46 1 7 01:45 1 0 00:37 0 0
6 WIDEMAN, DENNIS 23:56 2 10 00:07 0 0 00:37 0 0
7 BRODIE, TJ 22:40 2 5 00:24 1 0 01:29 0 1
8 COLBORNE, JOE 11:04 0 3 00:07 0 0 00:00 0 0
11 BACKLUND, MIKAEL 10:16 0 4 00:00 0 0 00:30 0 0
13 CAMMALLERI, MIKE 16:38 1 6 02:02 2 0 00:24 0 0
16 MCGRATTAN, BRIAN 06:54 0 3 00:00 0 0 00:00 0 0
17 BOUMA, LANCE 06:36 0 3 00:00 0 0 00:30 0 0
18 STAJAN, MATT 18:52 3 7 00:00 0 0 01:12 0 1
22 STEMPNIAK, LEE 18:33 1 6 02:02 2 0 00:24 0 0
23 MONAHAN, SEAN 16:27 1 5 02:02 2 0 00:00 0 0
24 HUDLER, JIRI 16:03 1 5 02:02 2 0 00:00 0 0
27 SMITH, DEREK 10:21 0 5 00:00 0 0 00:00 0 0
29 BERRA, RETO   4 19   2 0   0 1
39 GALIARDI, TJ 15:41 2 5 00:07 0 0 01:12 0 1
44 BUTLER, CHRIS 20:31 2 5 00:00 0 0 01:29 0 1
47 BAERTSCHI, SVEN 16:42 1 4 00:00 0 0 00:00 0 0
54 JONES, DAVID 15:47 2 6 00:07 0 0 00:00 0 0

 

Period Totals EV PP 5v3 PP SH 5v3 SH
1 1 9 1 8 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0
2 1 7 1 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
3 4 4 2 4 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Sum It Up 

An ugly effort tonight. Move on, boys.

The Flames play next on Thursday, as Dallas visits the 'Dome at 7.

A9d138d0e612f28cd46f9b7057ed715d
Justin is a 23-year-old Flames fan who also happens to be pursuing a double major at the University of Calgary. He has played hockey at high levels, enjoys wearing shorts and tends to drink far too much Grasshopper. Please don't hate him.
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#1 Baalzamon
November 12 2013, 11:00PM
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Stuart.

The Sharks definitely deserved to win this one. Who would have thought that the weak goaltending would have come from the other side for once?

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#2 SmellOfVictory
November 12 2013, 11:07PM
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Absolutely brutal. Not their worst loss on the scoresheet, but I'd say that was their worst game this season that I watched.

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#3 beloch
November 12 2013, 11:36PM
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I missed this one (I saw the new Thor flick instead). How did Smid look? He played almost 7 more minutes than Smith, so I assume he was moved up from the third pairing?

Edit: I just looked at the statsheet a little more... Yikes! Bad game! Looks like the Flames were lucky to steal a point! Forget I asked about Smid. I bet everyone looked bad tonight.

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#4 Burnward
November 13 2013, 12:24AM
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@beloch

We got our heads beat in for much of the game, but found some life in the third and escaped with a point.

To my eyes, Smid was solid. Showed some poise breaking it out of our zone and was pretty physical. All in all, a solid debut.

Oh, and it's super weird seeing a #3 patrolling our blue line again. Messed with my head all game.

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#5 cunning_linguist
November 13 2013, 01:02AM
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Perhaps I just keep fixating on him or only looking for the positives, but Sven always seems to me to have jump. Hartley mentioned in the post game that none of the players had jump in the first 2 periods, but I can remember multiple rushes where Sven looked like he was busting his hump to drive the puck up the ice. Am I crazy? Anyone else have an opinion on his game?

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#6 yomamen11
November 13 2013, 01:54AM
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The shortes characteristic of this match from Flames perspective is: Somehow...

Berra was solid today. I see him for the first time in last year world championship and he was one of the top (if not the top) goalie in tourney and he keeps to impress me again this year.

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#7 Rubberbadger
November 13 2013, 06:23AM
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Joe Thornton didn't take a single shot in this game. Strange. 2 assists though.

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#8 Jeff In Lethbridge
November 13 2013, 07:39AM
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cunning_linguist wrote:

Perhaps I just keep fixating on him or only looking for the positives, but Sven always seems to me to have jump. Hartley mentioned in the post game that none of the players had jump in the first 2 periods, but I can remember multiple rushes where Sven looked like he was busting his hump to drive the puck up the ice. Am I crazy? Anyone else have an opinion on his game?

love svens confidence and stick handling but for all his energy and try, he still seems to have a lot of "jr." in his game. too many high risk passes and attempts to put the puck between defenders legs resluting in turnover. he sure is exciting to watch when he is going though.

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#9 Jeff In Lethbridge
November 13 2013, 07:44AM
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Cammi really is a pro. Maybe not "elite" but only slightly below. He really can be a difference maker. his attitude and work ethic are exemplary. He will definitely have high trade value to a contender as is. Id almost rather keep him around. almost.

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#10 TRAV
November 13 2013, 08:02AM
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Jeff In Lethbridge wrote:

Cammi really is a pro. Maybe not "elite" but only slightly below. He really can be a difference maker. his attitude and work ethic are exemplary. He will definitely have high trade value to a contender as is. Id almost rather keep him around. almost.

I Would say that Cammi is a guy that you look at trading depending cost to keep himand offers that you receive for him. If you aren't offered much and it's cheap to keep him maybe you do.. But if you get a solid offer I think you have to turn that asset into valuable younger assets. Clearly you need to keep som quality vets in the room for leadership and so that rookies aren't over faced thus losing their confidence. It's needs to be the right vets with a good mix of leadership,skill and desire to be part of rebuild...

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#11 Dave
November 13 2013, 08:32AM
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I believe that cammy is one of those vets you keep around. His ability to win games, his work ethic, attitude, leadership. There are so many qualities in him that young players need to see first hand in order to learn. I say you gotta keep him.

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#12 Michael
November 13 2013, 09:01AM
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'and the Flames, while not god awful, are nowhere near "good". '

I was at the game, the Flames were 'god awful' in the first two periods, one of the weaker performances I've seen this year. You can't show up for ten minutes in the third period and expect to win a game, they were VERY lucky to get the point.

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#14 MichaelD
November 13 2013, 09:31AM
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@TRAV

What's a solid offer though? First round pick? Prospect and a roster player?

To me, I agree with most that he brings valuable leadership and will be a great vet to have around. So the asker price better be high, and hopefully a bidding war could make it higher if they choose to move him.

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#15 Primo
November 13 2013, 09:32AM
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Dave wrote:

I believe that cammy is one of those vets you keep around. His ability to win games, his work ethic, attitude, leadership. There are so many qualities in him that young players need to see first hand in order to learn. I say you gotta keep him.

I think opposite. Great guy but is UFA with large overpaid contract. Also greater than 30 yrs old. Keep him productive, happy and healthy and get potentially huge return in the trade market. Key is the timing where you ideally get 2-3 teams bidding for his services. Most likely closer to trade deadline when his salary will not be an factor and teams are competing and positioning for Stanley.

.

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#16 piscera.infada
November 13 2013, 09:37AM
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Dave wrote:

I believe that cammy is one of those vets you keep around. His ability to win games, his work ethic, attitude, leadership. There are so many qualities in him that young players need to see first hand in order to learn. I say you gotta keep him.

While I agree that keeping him around would be a great idea, I don't see any reason Cammy would want to stay here. As such, the pragmatic thing would be to move him at the dealine. If he's going to stay, the Flames need to get a good extension (both $ and term, which I doubt Cammy would want) done before the trade deadline. But if it happens, then yeah, he would be a good guy to keep around the younger guys. As I said, I don't see it happening, and I don't think you can blame Cammy at all if he does want to go somewhere else. With the way he's playing, it's likely win-win either way.

@MichaelD

The asking price is besides the point, the only thing keeping his value high at all is production this season - any trade involves the Flames being bent over a barrel, unless there's a big time bidding war (which again, will only be because of production). If he truly doesn't want to be here for the twilight of his career, then he simply leaves at the end of this season and we get nothing.

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#17 RustyStrombone
November 13 2013, 09:41AM
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It's fun when you have to read the post-game blog to find out what happened....despite the fact that you attended the game. Good ol' dome beers.

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#18 backburner
November 13 2013, 09:43AM
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MichaelD wrote:

What's a solid offer though? First round pick? Prospect and a roster player?

To me, I agree with most that he brings valuable leadership and will be a great vet to have around. So the asker price better be high, and hopefully a bidding war could make it higher if they choose to move him.

I still think Cammy could net a return similar to what Buffalo got for Vanek... I think those players are some-what comparable.. especially if Cammy keeps playing this well.

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#19 MichaelD
November 13 2013, 09:52AM
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@piscera.infada

True I wasn't thinking about him being a UFA. I would still be disappointed if we only got a second or something like that. I guess more disappointed if we lost him for nothing though.

@backburner

I don't know, that deal seemed like a robbery. Plus there will be different circumstances with teams

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#20 Kevin R
November 13 2013, 10:12AM
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Year one of declared rebuild, gonna be more tough nights like this but we need to take the positives out of every win & every loss. This last one, Berra. What a positive, to have a goalie that literally stole us a point in that fashion who is young & this early in the rebuild, well that's huge. The other positive, Cammi. We couldn't have written a better start for this guy. This early in the rebuild should be all about getting young assets. All 3 of our veteran UFA's need to be shined & polished up for the trade deadline. This team can ill afford to overpay to keep them in a rebuild environment nor can they let them walk away come July. The time will come where we will need to part with assets to acquire players to get us in the playoffs again. Injuries this week alone have not only decimated my hockey pools but some pretty good teams are going to be scrambling. Wonder what Tampa would part with to replace Stamkos goals this year, cough.,.Cammi... cough.

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#21 SmellOfVictory
November 13 2013, 10:52AM
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cunning_linguist wrote:

Perhaps I just keep fixating on him or only looking for the positives, but Sven always seems to me to have jump. Hartley mentioned in the post game that none of the players had jump in the first 2 periods, but I can remember multiple rushes where Sven looked like he was busting his hump to drive the puck up the ice. Am I crazy? Anyone else have an opinion on his game?

He does always have jump when he's got the puck or is about to get it.

I don't think this justifies the way Hartley has dealt with him, but I will say I noticed some of the negatives with his game (understandable, given his age). He does tend to circle a little too lazily when going from point A to point B, and he tends to hold onto the puck too much when he's got it in the offensive zone. Sometimes going for a drive or a deke is great, but doing it every time will not work. He has to learn how to pick his spots a little better.

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#22 SmellOfVictory
November 13 2013, 12:19PM
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backburner wrote:

I still think Cammy could net a return similar to what Buffalo got for Vanek... I think those players are some-what comparable.. especially if Cammy keeps playing this well.

I don't think he's considered to be quite at Vanek's level, but there's no reason the Flames shouldn't be able to get a first for him at the deadline, at least.

Vanek's a bit younger, a bit more of a goal scorer, and a little sturdier from an injury perspective. He was also considered the central pillar of Buffalo's offence, whereas Cammalleri has generally not been "the guy" for any given team.

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#23 TRAV
November 13 2013, 12:40PM
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Dave wrote:

I believe that cammy is one of those vets you keep around. His ability to win games, his work ethic, attitude, leadership. There are so many qualities in him that young players need to see first hand in order to learn. I say you gotta keep him.

Do you keep him if you are offered a First and a top young prospect? What if you are offered a first this year and a first next? Management needs to be listening to offers on all of their vets. I don't think that there are any vets on this team that I wouldn't make available "for the right price."

I do agree with you though that Cammy is playing well and is setting the kind of example that we need. I would love to see him stick around (on a contract that makes sense) but if the return was great enough, I think that I could live with him being moved....

Also let's not forget that we really don't want to lose him for nothing at end of the season. If he indicates to management that he wants a move to a contender and that he will not resign here it would be crazy not to move him at the deadline.

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#24 TRAV
November 13 2013, 12:49PM
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MichaelD wrote:

What's a solid offer though? First round pick? Prospect and a roster player?

To me, I agree with most that he brings valuable leadership and will be a great vet to have around. So the asker price better be high, and hopefully a bidding war could make it higher if they choose to move him.

Well I would love to keep him around or I would love to get some valuable assets for him. What I would hate to see is us lose him for nothing at the end of the season. Let's not forget that while we may want to have him here he may not want to be part of rebuilding for the next several years.

Also we can ask all we want but we need teams that are willing to pay that price. I think that the wise move is to have contract conversations with Cammy's agent now so that we know what he is looking for in his next contract. This is a must as we get closer to the deadline and teams start to look to add help.

I agree a bidding war for his services would be fantastic. Sportak suggested that the Bolts might be looking to add scoring with the injury to Stamkos. Would you move him for a first and a prospect, or two prospects? To be honest I am not sure what a fair price would be. I'll leave that to others on here who are far more knowledgeable about prospects and past trades than myself.

Should we be looking to move him early while he is hot? (I personally don;t think so but just throwing it out there...)

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#25 SmellOfVictory
November 13 2013, 12:53PM
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TRAV wrote:

Do you keep him if you are offered a First and a top young prospect? What if you are offered a first this year and a first next? Management needs to be listening to offers on all of their vets. I don't think that there are any vets on this team that I wouldn't make available "for the right price."

I do agree with you though that Cammy is playing well and is setting the kind of example that we need. I would love to see him stick around (on a contract that makes sense) but if the return was great enough, I think that I could live with him being moved....

Also let's not forget that we really don't want to lose him for nothing at end of the season. If he indicates to management that he wants a move to a contender and that he will not resign here it would be crazy not to move him at the deadline.

I think the Flames could survive without Cammy and Stempniak, although they might have a tougher time of it next season. That said, even if both were traded, there should be enough veteran leadership going around with the other vets that their loss wouldn't destroy the team. And they could both net valuable assets at the trade deadline.

So I guess I'm saying I agree with you. Either way, the re-signing aspect should be dealt with prior to the trade deadline. Either Stemps and Cammy have new contracts before the end of February, or they're trade bait.

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#26 piscera.infada
November 13 2013, 12:55PM
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@TRAV

"For the right price" no one on this team is immovable. I think what Dave's getting at though is: what's the real value in assets for Cammalleri as a playoff rental versus what he could bring to this club in terms of "intangibles" down the road?

I agree with you, I think he's gone at the trade deadline, but we all need to realize that he's unfortunately not going to net the gigantic return some of us might think he's worth.

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#27 SmellOfVictory
November 13 2013, 01:00PM
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@TRAV

"Should we be looking to move him early while he is hot? (I personally don;t think so but just throwing it out there...)"

His contract is too big for that. Most teams that would want him can't take on that much cap or salary.

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#28 EddyBeers
November 13 2013, 01:30PM
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@SmellOfVictory

Couldn't they retain some salary to sweeten the return and increase the number of interested teams?

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#29 SmellOfVictory
November 13 2013, 02:07PM
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EddyBeers wrote:

Couldn't they retain some salary to sweeten the return and increase the number of interested teams?

Theoretically they could, although most teams don't even have 3 mill in cap space to work with, and Flames ownership hasn't really shown any willingness to eat salary if they can avoid it. It would probably be easiest to just wait until the trade deadline, and as long as Cammy's not injured there should be a decent return available for him. The auction-style atmosphere can really boost a guy's value, as well.

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#30 beloch
November 13 2013, 02:08PM
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Cammalleri has been on an 80 point pace so far this season, but he has seldom finished that high. His top three point totals are 80 (with the Kings), 82 (with the Flames), and 55 (Kings). That's quite the drop-off for the #3 spot! He was a 40-50 point player for the two seasons he played in Montreal and the one he split between Montreal and Calgary. In short, Cammalleri is hot right now, but odds are he won't stay hot. For some reason Calgary seems to only see Cammalleri when he's hot...

In terms of advanced stats, Cammalleri isn't exactly a possession fiend. He's been given scoring line minutes (Read: somewhat sheltered, but not too sheltered) in both Calgary and Montreal, but his Corsi is neither bad nor good. Cammalleri is basically what he appears to be: a scoring specialist.

He's 31, he's having a great season so far, and he hasn't won the cup yet. Resigning in Calgary is probably not his preference so he'd likely be expensive. Also, his performance while auditioning for a cup-contender (i.e. His play this season) might not be the same as his performance once he has a long contract on a rebuilding team stretching out in front of him.

Verdict: Trade. He might have made a good mentor, but that role is unlikely to be where his heart is leading him. The Flames will certainly miss him, but that's a requirement for any player who is going to bring back something of worth.

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#31 Dave
November 13 2013, 02:27PM
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I get what most people are saying. But I still think that as long as he would like to stay the Flames should try to resign him. He's a very talented hockey player and I believe that it's easier to keep good vets around than it is to try and pluck them from other teams or from free agency.

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#32 NHL93
November 13 2013, 02:29PM
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After Christmas, ask Cammy if he wants to stay. If so, discuss an extension. If not, move him to the highest bidder. Done. Move on.

I imagine this team would rather keep him as a mentor with a team friendly contract rather than testing the waters. He seems to be a good teammate. He likes Calgary. He's a popular player. Just look north to see what happens to a team when they gut everything down to the bone and press the reset button.

But he'll probably move on. Maybe we'll get a high first for him (20th or better?). Depends on the market at the time.

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#33 Dave
November 13 2013, 03:25PM
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I was strolling through Oilersnation (it's fun these days) and I came across this comment.

"Interesting comment from a fan made on TSN.ca...In Ken Dryden's book 'The Game'...there is a symmetry between the 1970s Leafs and the current Oilers..The Leafs had Sittler, McDonald, etc..young and promising but as Dryden points out that promise fades without being reinforced by winning. The current Oilers need strnog veteran leadership...Sidney Crosby had Lemieux, Stamkos had (and has) St. Louis, etc.. Players who have not had those strong role models (OV for example) struggle on how to make the playes around them better. Bottom line is that the Oilers need to get vets that know how to win and they need to do it quickly before the like of Hall and Eberle are ruined."

I'd have to agree with what this guy said and that is why I believe the Flames should resign cammy (only if he wants to).

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#34 T&A4Flames
November 13 2013, 03:46PM
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Kevin R wrote:

Year one of declared rebuild, gonna be more tough nights like this but we need to take the positives out of every win & every loss. This last one, Berra. What a positive, to have a goalie that literally stole us a point in that fashion who is young & this early in the rebuild, well that's huge. The other positive, Cammi. We couldn't have written a better start for this guy. This early in the rebuild should be all about getting young assets. All 3 of our veteran UFA's need to be shined & polished up for the trade deadline. This team can ill afford to overpay to keep them in a rebuild environment nor can they let them walk away come July. The time will come where we will need to part with assets to acquire players to get us in the playoffs again. Injuries this week alone have not only decimated my hockey pools but some pretty good teams are going to be scrambling. Wonder what Tampa would part with to replace Stamkos goals this year, cough.,.Cammi... cough.

I agree with this especially the point about shining up the 3 vet UFA's. The only guy I can see keeping would Stempniak because we are SO weak on the right side. Also, he has been fantastic with the kids and has found his own level of consistency while playing for CGY. Still, my best case scenario would be to move him for assets and try to resign him in the summer.

As for Cammi, I would love to see a move to PHX for Rundblad and a 1st. We could add Butler or something but based on the return BUF got for Vanek, that seems fair.

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#35 T&A4Flames
November 13 2013, 03:59PM
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Dave wrote:

I was strolling through Oilersnation (it's fun these days) and I came across this comment.

"Interesting comment from a fan made on TSN.ca...In Ken Dryden's book 'The Game'...there is a symmetry between the 1970s Leafs and the current Oilers..The Leafs had Sittler, McDonald, etc..young and promising but as Dryden points out that promise fades without being reinforced by winning. The current Oilers need strnog veteran leadership...Sidney Crosby had Lemieux, Stamkos had (and has) St. Louis, etc.. Players who have not had those strong role models (OV for example) struggle on how to make the playes around them better. Bottom line is that the Oilers need to get vets that know how to win and they need to do it quickly before the like of Hall and Eberle are ruined."

I'd have to agree with what this guy said and that is why I believe the Flames should resign cammy (only if he wants to).

Vets at the moment are not an issue. Moving Stajan, Stempniak and Cammi will not hurt this team in the long run. We still have Gio, Wideman, GlenX (despite his poor start), Hudler and now guys like Smid and Jones to carry on the vet responsibilities. I think Feaster and his group have done a great job in setting up the next few years by insuring we have competent vets to mentor and then trade in yearly succession as their contracts expire. JMO.

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#36 piscera.infada
November 13 2013, 04:17PM
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@T&A4Flames

As for Cammi, I would love to see a move to PHX for Rundblad and a 1st.

If that were to happen, I will streak at the next home game.

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#37 T&A4Flames
November 13 2013, 04:45PM
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piscera.infada wrote:

As for Cammi, I would love to see a move to PHX for Rundblad and a 1st.

If that were to happen, I will streak at the next home game.

Rundblad will likely get moved as they have no room for him. And PHX needs scoring. Seems like a good match. If a trade doesn't happen until closer to the deadline then I doubt CGY would get both. However, if something could happen soon and PHX has all season to work him into their system and try to resign, why not.

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#38 dan
November 13 2013, 05:46PM
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beloch wrote:

Cammalleri has been on an 80 point pace so far this season, but he has seldom finished that high. His top three point totals are 80 (with the Kings), 82 (with the Flames), and 55 (Kings). That's quite the drop-off for the #3 spot! He was a 40-50 point player for the two seasons he played in Montreal and the one he split between Montreal and Calgary. In short, Cammalleri is hot right now, but odds are he won't stay hot. For some reason Calgary seems to only see Cammalleri when he's hot...

In terms of advanced stats, Cammalleri isn't exactly a possession fiend. He's been given scoring line minutes (Read: somewhat sheltered, but not too sheltered) in both Calgary and Montreal, but his Corsi is neither bad nor good. Cammalleri is basically what he appears to be: a scoring specialist.

He's 31, he's having a great season so far, and he hasn't won the cup yet. Resigning in Calgary is probably not his preference so he'd likely be expensive. Also, his performance while auditioning for a cup-contender (i.e. His play this season) might not be the same as his performance once he has a long contract on a rebuilding team stretching out in front of him.

Verdict: Trade. He might have made a good mentor, but that role is unlikely to be where his heart is leading him. The Flames will certainly miss him, but that's a requirement for any player who is going to bring back something of worth.

Wheb healthy he's a 60 point guy. U convenienly forgot to mention that injuries are the only thing holding yhis guy back from netting cgy a solid return

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#39 coachedpotatoe
November 13 2013, 06:12PM
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Just wanted to start my comments by first discussing the game last night. Probably the worst 30 minutes of the season but not to be unexpected on occasion. Now what should Hartley do in response? One choice would be to bag skate and yell at them for such a poor effort and bench players he was unhappy with (if he did that he would need to recall most of the Heat as few players played well or very hard last night) or He could go in a say something like this "boys you played like .... last night and you know it. You also know you are better than that so go out and prove it by having a great practice. Then start the same lineup and lines and see if they bounce back. I would prefer the later. We will see tomorrow.

Discussion on what they should do with Cammi and the vets is interesting. They need to have some and the right vets moving forward. We have 3 UFA's two are playing quite well(Stemp/Cammi) and the other is what he is(Stajan). After that lets look at the rest of the NHL vets: Hudler, GlenX, TJG, Djones, Backs(yes he is a vet now, McG,and Jackman. Pick 4 maybe 5 from both lists to have back as your veteran presence. You could also pick up the right free agent if needed. So I would move Cammi(although reluctantly and Stajan) I would take Hudler, TJG, Backs, Stemp if he wants to stay and GlenX based upon how I think Hartley wants them to play. Djones if Stemp does not to return. Add Monahan, Sven, Bouma, and Colborne and you have your returning forwards (8 or 9 of 13)Add three guys from the farm (Knight, Rhino, Granlund, Ferland,Jooris, Hankowski) and two from the other prospects and you are in year two of the rebuild(Poirier and JOhny G).

On the backend there is not much to do considering what we have; you have 2 30 year core defensemen Gio and Wides, you have Russle and Smid in the next age group 26/27 and TJB in the younger age group. You need to decide if any of the younger Dmen are ready, Billings,Ramage, Spoon and you need at least 1 of them to be ready. Or one of the real young kids. You may need to find another free agent in the 27 year old range. Which means you have Butler, Smith and OB to move. I have intentionally left Sieloff off my list because over the last two seasons he has played very few games and we are unsure of what his recent injury is. Others like Cundari seem to have fallen out of favour.

In net the debate will go on all season between three Europeans and I don't have enough evidence to have an opinion yet about goalies. I suspect Gilles will paly at least 1 more season of NCAA.

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#40 loudogYYC
November 13 2013, 06:47PM
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I agree with those of you who say a positive veteran presence will be be important in the rebuild, I just don't think it'll be Cammalleri. He has a nose for the net and a pit bull attitude when it comes to scoring goals. That's exactly what winning teams look for close to the deadline. That's a luxury the Flames won't need yet IMO.

I do hope they dip into the UFA for a C and a few wingers next season. They'll have to overpay but on a short term that's ok.

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#41 Jeff In Lethbridge
November 13 2013, 07:03PM
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SmellOfVictory wrote:

I think the Flames could survive without Cammy and Stempniak, although they might have a tougher time of it next season. That said, even if both were traded, there should be enough veteran leadership going around with the other vets that their loss wouldn't destroy the team. And they could both net valuable assets at the trade deadline.

So I guess I'm saying I agree with you. Either way, the re-signing aspect should be dealt with prior to the trade deadline. Either Stemps and Cammy have new contracts before the end of February, or they're trade bait.

If by survive, you mean like Edmonton has survived, then I start to worry

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#42 Walter White
November 13 2013, 08:03PM
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Trade Cammy to the bolts NOW for a couple of high draft picks, while they still have the cap space and the delusion that they have a shot at a playoff run..... WW

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#43 SmellOfVictory
November 13 2013, 10:23PM
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Jeff In Lethbridge wrote:

If by survive, you mean like Edmonton has survived, then I start to worry

Haha not in the slightest. Even if they traded all three of the impending UFAs (Stajan, Cammalleri, Stempniak) the Flames would still have Glencross, Hudler, Giordano, and Wideman as effective older vets who have displayed some leadership qualities (according to MSM and the Flames website, anyway), in addition to guys like Backlund, Brodie, Bouma, Galiardi, Smid, and Jones, who all have a decent amount of NHL experience and should provide a stabilizing presence.

This isn't the Oilers where the entire top 6 was comprised of guys under the age of 23 (and Hemsky, when he wasn't injured), and all of the vets kept around were bad at hockey. Not to mention the crapbag of a coach that Kruger was, and the somewhat disappointing performance of Eakins so far. It's not the Oilers who had a defensive core where Smid was their de facto #1 defenceman; the Flames have at least three guys ahead of him, and I'd argue for a fourth in Russell.

I understand the consternation when the possibility of becoming like the Oilers arises, but make no mistake: these are two very different teams, so don't let geographical and Internautical proximity to them freak you out too much.

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#44 bundy
November 13 2013, 10:49PM
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Walter White wrote:

Trade Cammy to the bolts NOW for a couple of high draft picks, while they still have the cap space and the delusion that they have a shot at a playoff run..... WW

Totally got to agree. They may be ripe for the picking. Like it or not Cammy wont be around long term. I don't even think he can stay healthy till the trade deadline. Got to maximize return. Lets just hope he can stay healthy till then

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#45 Burnward
November 13 2013, 11:20PM
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Just pondering this today.

I think we move Stajan and DJones and keep Cammi.

We may not get the return we want but might be the space we need to remain a solid team and further the kids development.

That would give us, if healthy...

Cammi-Mickis-Ninja - Can play tough minutes and still drive offense.

Sven-Monahan-Hudler - Give them the sheltered/PP minutes.

Galliardi-Colborne-GlenX - Solid energy third line.

Bouma-Knight-Reinhart/Face-Puncher - Knight has earned a fourth line shot with his play. Gets him used to playing NHL competition.

That's not too shabby of a team. Also, allows us to max out our cap space to take on some salary if we have a chance to accelerate the re-build through a deal or two.

Anyhoo, my 18 game analysis. Ha!

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#46 ianberg1
November 14 2013, 11:05PM
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It's unfortunate how Berra kept the Flames in the Sharks game then turned was rocked by the Stars 2 days later

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