Post-Game: Kane Enabled

Taylor McKee
November 27 2013 11:50PM

The Flames took on the NHL-best Chicago Blackhawks tonight and, well, provided fans with the illusion that they could beat them in regulation before collapsing in the third period again, this time with no chance of extra-time heroics.

On the strength of two third period goals from Patick Kane, one of which coming with 18 seconds left, the Hawks overcame a 2-0 third period lead and stunned the dome crowd whom had seen Sean Monahan score a beauty early in the third to give the Flames that same 2-0 lead.

GAME SUMMARY

The game started with a couple early Hawks power-plays which the Flames killed off despite the Hawks having two or three grade A scoring chances including Marian Hossa undressing two defenders before being stopped with an unorthodox save by Berra. Early on, the Flames didn't have anything resembling offense aside from a few chances from Matt Stajan while the Hawks completely controlled play. The two early Hawks power-plays seemed to stunt any early momentum that the Flames would have looked to harness from home-ice. The Flames were largely unable to generate any offense towards the front of the net and had virtually no sustained pressure on the Hawk’s Raanta.

Of note, Brian McGrattan beat the tar out of Brandon Bollig in a staged fight with four minutes left in the first. The scrap, if one is inclined to believe in the value of punching faces, seemed to spark the Flames for the rest of the period as they were able to push back a little. The Flames got to the dressing room with a scoreless draw and were likely pleased with that result as the shots were 10-10 but the Hawks held the edge in scoring chances 8-3 and shot attempts 30-13.

The second started with the Hawks controlling play again with the vast majority of the offensive zone time and the Hawks would have taken the lead if not for Patrick Sharp misfiring on a wide open net and Patrick Kane drilling the inside of the post. Reto Berra, though fond of hair-raising slides through his crease, made some key stops in the first half of the second that kept the Flames from being blown out early.

Seemingly out of nowhere, Matt Stajan hammered home a pass from Jiri Hudler in a soft spot in the Hawks d-zone coverage to put the Flames up 1-0. The Hawks then returned to completely controlling play, prompting Cuthbert to ask someone to “cue the Globetrotters music” during one particularly dominant by Kane, Toews and co. However, the Flames left the second up 1-0 and outshot the Hawks 10-5 in the Second. As far as shot attempts are concerned, the Flames managed to claw back a few more but trailed the Hawks 47-31 through two.

Early in the third, Jiri Hudler broke down the right wing and put a beautiful pass to Monahan who roofed it on Raanta to give the Flames a two goal lead. After the Monahan goal, Berra made a few key saves including a point blank shot from Versteeg. However, the seemingly requisite Reto Berra bad angle goal game mid-way through the third off a bit of a weird bounce off Russell’s stick from a Patrick Kane pseudo-shot. Then, as things have gone for Berra and the Flames this season so far, bad things came in bunches. Patrick Sharp chipped in the tying marker of a great play from Hossa 56 seconds after the Kane goal and all the hard work to gain and maintain the lead had vanished. From the Monahan goal on, the Flames went over 14 minutes without a shot on goal.

Then, with 18 seconds left off a mishandled faceoff win, Patrick Kane lifted a backhand over Berra’s glove and broke the hearts of the Flames faithful. Ultimately, another goal that Berra would like to have back

WHY THE FLAMES LOST

Despite having to play from behind, the Hawks were the better team for the majority of the game and outchanced the Flames 17-9 overall in the game. The Hawks were and are, by every conceivable metric, the better team and the Flames are simply a defensively porous club. It looked as though some opportunistic scoring might mask that deficiency tonight but alas, Patrick Kane proved otherwise.

Also, the final goal was a bit of a groaner from Berra who, again, was solid except for lapses in the third period. The Bob Hartley/Reto Berra bromance of lo these many weeks must surely come to an end soon enough as the Flames might as well see what they have in Ramo. He is getting the Curtis McElhinney treatment right now and it is surely not a recipe for success when he does start.

I understand that the Flames are going to lose a whole lot more games this season but this trend of imploding in the third period really does have to stop. These kinds of losses stick with fans.  

SCORING CHANCES

Team Period Time Note Home Away State
Away 1 19:01 Sharp PP 3 11 17 29 44   2 10 19 31 65 88 4v5
Away 1 16:55 Pirri 3 13 23 24 29 44 4 26 27 31 37 88 5v5
Home 1 15:41 Stajan 6 13 18 27 29 54 4 8 16 28 31 52 5v5
Away 1 13:27 Hossa 3 17 19 29 44   7 8 20 23 31 81 4v5
Away 1 9:42 Smith 6 23 24 27 29 47 4 16 27 28 31 52 5v5
Away 1 9:38 Smith 6 23 24 27 29 47 4 16 27 28 31 52 5v5
Home 1 7:28 Cammalleri 3 13 18 29 44 47 2 7 10 19 31 65 5v5
Away 1 5:15 Shaw 6 23 24 29 44 47 4 23 27 31 37 65 5v5
Away 1 4:45 Versteeg 6 23 24 29 44 47 4 23 27 31 37 65 5v5
Home 1 2:55 Cammalleri 3 4 13 18 22 29 2 7 10 19 31 81 5v5
Away 1 2:09 Versteeg 3 6 23 24 29 47 8 23 31 32 37 65 5v5
Away 2 16:29 Leddy 4 7 8 17 29 54 8 23 31 32 37 65 5v5
Home 2 14:25 Stajan 4 13 18 22 29 44 2 7 16 28 31 52 5v5
Away 2 13:15 Kane 6 8 17 24 29 44 8 20 26 31 32 88 5v5
Away 2 11:29 Keith 4 7 13 18 22 29 2 7 10 19 31 81 5v5
Away 2 11:25 Sharp 4 7 13 18 22 29 2 7 10 19 31 81 5v5
Home 2 6:28 Stajan goal 3 23 24 29 44 47 2 7 23 31 65 81 5v5
Away 2 5:35 Hossa 3 6 8 13 24 29 2 23 31 32 65 81 5v5
Home 2 0:28 rebound 4 6 13 18 22 29 8 10 19 31 32 81 5v5
Home 2 0:22 Stempniak 4 7 13 18 22 29 4 16 27 28 31 52 5v5
Away 3 18:55 Kane 3 8 17 29 44 54 4 20 26 27 31 88 5v5
Home 3 17:55 Monahan goal 3 11 16 19 29 44 2 7 20 26 31 65 5v5
Away 3 15:16 Hossa 3 4 23 24 29 47 2 10 19 31 32 81 5v5
Home 3 13:47 Baertschi 3 23 24 29 44 47 8 20 31 32 65 88 5v5
Away 3 12:10 Versteeg 3 8 17 29 44 54 2 7 23 31 37 88 5v5
Away 3 9:23 Sharp goal 3 23 24 29 44 47 4 10 19 27 31 81 5v5
Away 3 4:00 Hossa 4 7 13 18 22 29 4 10 19 27 31 81 5v5
Away 3 1:27 Sharp 3 7 13 18 22 29 4 10 19 27 31 81 5v5
Away 3 0:18 Kane goal 6 7 13 18 22 29 4 16 26 27 28 31 5v5
# Player EV     PP     SH    
3 SMID, LADISLAV 22:04 5 8 00:00 0 0 02:10 0 2
4 RUSSELL, KRIS 19:56 4 5 01:24 0 0 00:48 0 0
6 WIDEMAN, DENNIS 18:34 2 8 00:36 0 0 01:50 0 0
7 BRODIE, TJ 18:39 1 6 00:28 0 0 01:02 0 0
8 COLBORNE, JOE 16:18 0 5 00:58 0 0 00:00 0 0
11 BACKLUND, MIKAEL 07:32 1 0 00:00 0 0 01:47 0 1
13 CAMMALLERI, MIKE 16:59 6 7 01:32 0 0 00:32 0 0
16 MCGRATTAN, BRIAN 05:44 1 0 00:00 0 0 00:00 0 0
17 BOUMA, LANCE 16:40 0 4 00:17 0 0 01:21 0 2
18 STAJAN, MATT 17:07 6 5 00:00 0 0 01:16 0 0
19 JONES, BLAIR 08:03 1 0 00:00 0 0 00:45 0 1
22 STEMPNIAK, LEE 13:38 4 5 01:02 0 0 01:55 0 0
23 MONAHAN, SEAN 13:19 2 8 01:02 0 0 00:12 0 0
24 HUDLER, JIRI 15:53 2 10 01:15 0 0 00:12 0 0
27 SMITH, DEREK 06:04 1 2 00:00 0 0 00:00 0 0
29 BERRA, RETO   9 18   0 0   0 2
44 BUTLER, CHRIS 22:54 5 7 00:00 0 0 02:10 0 2
47 BAERTSCHI, SVEN 15:09 3 7 00:28 0 0 00:00 0 0
54 JONES, DAVID 15:32 1 3 00:58 0 0 00:00 0 0
Period Totals EV PP 5v3 PP SH 5v3 SH
1 3 8 3 6 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0
2 4 5 4 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
3 2 7 2 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

 

THE RED WARRIOR

Well, the end of this game kind of soured the whole thing but let's go with the much maligned Chris Butler. He played nearly 23 minutes of non-descript, solid defending. Jiri Hudler made two nice passes to set up the Flames' goals but I feel like Mr. Butler might not be getting recognized for not being abjectly horrid these past few games and what is this season if not one to appreciate small victories?

As of late, 44 has been drastically less pepto-inducing so I feel like Butler, an avid reader I am sure, could use the pick-me-up.

SUM IT UP

The Flames, now 8-12-4, dropped a game that they inexpiably should have won despite being pretty heavily out-chanced and against superior opposition. They now head off to Anaheim to play an exceedingly rare weekday afternoon game in a rink where they haven’t won since Canada existed.

The puck drops at 2pm MT on Friday for the Flames and Ducks.

112039ec99211abeba03b81d364735ec
Taylor splits time between UVIC and Calgary studying history. Taylor likes the Flames, the Cannons, Buckshot, and the Oxford comma. Taylor scored on his own net on dome ice when he was 8. Twitter: @TaylorMcKee_
Avatar
#1 jeremywilhelm
November 27 2013, 11:51PM
Trash it!
10
trashes
+1
12
props

@Burnward

How can you not blame him? He isn't making saves NHL goaltenders make, not just tonight, on a regular basis.

Avatar
#2 Carlizzle
November 28 2013, 12:13AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
10
props

I have lost track with how many times Berra has been out of position, sliding across the crease, and most of all, not hugging the post.Kane's first goal tonight was BS luck, Perron's from the corner, was piss poor positioning, and he has still not made any kind of an adjustment. Berra said in an interview earlier in the week that in Europe, "When the puck is in the corner, the opposition will never shoot from the corner, which means that that I can relax in my net, because 99% of the time it is pass, never shoot." Frustrating to see Baertschi have a wide open net and shoot it on an angle back through the crease at Raanta and Raaanta of course makes the save. It could have easily been 4-0, if you factor in Cammy's whiff on the one timer. Lastly, how can Seabrook drive Bouma's head into the boards from behind, have Bouma down on the ice, in front of the ref, with the ref looking right at the play and nothing! Ramo, come on down!! eh Bob?

I hate Patrick Sharp!!

Avatar
#3 jeremywilhelm
November 27 2013, 11:47PM
Trash it!
10
trashes
+1
9
props

I hate Bob Hartley...

Avatar
#4 Burnward
November 27 2013, 11:49PM
Trash it!
13
trashes
+1
9
props

This one isn't on Berra to me.

That first goal was a fluke, the second was a no-chancer, the third did beat him...but it should have been out already.

I thought he played well and battled all night.

Avatar
#5 piscera.infada
November 28 2013, 07:54AM
Trash it!
4
trashes
+1
9
props

@Double Dion

"Why were Bartschi, Monahan, Hudler and Butler on the ice for the final shift? The player usage decisions are baffling me right now. The only answer I can come up with is we were trying not to get a point. Those 3 forwards should be on the PP, not out for the last shift to try to stem the Hawks momentum."

I'm not going to sweat that at this point. I mean, how many times have people on this blog posted something along the lines of "Hartley's player deployment is baffling to me, we're in a rebuild, and we aren't playing our young players, come on Hartley, it's called development". You can't have it both ways.

In my mind, it wasn't a horrible idea at all. You have a young centre in Monahan, that you hope will turn into the kind of centre that you put out there in just that situation. Therefore, you try it based on where that particular game was - a minute left in a tie game, that you really have no business even being in. Either way it goes, it's a learning experience for Monahan and Baertschi. If these are going to be players that you rely on down the road, they need to learn how to win, or how to get a point out of those situations - it's great film room fodder.

Avatar
#6 Double Dion
November 28 2013, 02:11AM
Trash it!
6
trashes
+1
8
props

Why were Bartschi, Monahan, Hudler and Butler on the ice for the final shift? The player usage decisions are baffling me right now. The only answer I can come up with is we were trying not to get a point. Those 3 forwards should be on the PP, not out for the last shift to try to stem the Hawks momentum. Some combination of Stajan, Backlund, Stempniak and Bouma would have been fine. With 2 of Smid, Brodie or Russell. Hartley's system is great, but his player usage is going to get him a ticket back to the Swiss league. I'm getting tired of watching plays die on the sticks of Colborne and Jones (David) too. Put those big bodies with McGratton.

Avatar
#7 ChinookArch
November 28 2013, 06:14AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
7
props

There' no shame in the loss last night. Chicago is elite and Calgary err . . . is not. The team battled with few lapses in energy, but were simply outmatched by a clearly better skilled team.

I hope Berra turns in to something, but taking my Flames bias out Berra has a lot to work on. I'd prefer splitting the starts between Ramo and Berra, and hopefully Marchuck can work on both ther technical games.

Thanks for bringing back Live Chat!!

Avatar
#8 suba steve
November 28 2013, 10:07AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
6
props

Going into the game, we all knew that the Flames had no business winning this game. They did managed to put up a good fight, while being outplayed (my opinion), and had a two goal lead before the roof fell in on them. That (the loss while competing) is the best result for this team (again, my opinion).

This rebuild is going to see a lot of losses, and the sooner we all get used to/accept that, the better off we will all be.

If Berra continues to learn and improve, then we are in decent shape. He does not need to be a finished product this year (or next), but if he is at his peak in 2 years time, then great. Same with Ramo.

Patience, please.

Avatar
#9 cccserg
November 28 2013, 11:39AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
5
props
Burnward wrote:

This one isn't on Berra to me.

That first goal was a fluke, the second was a no-chancer, the third did beat him...but it should have been out already.

I thought he played well and battled all night.

Agree completely with this assessment. Berra was one of the best flames on the night, anyone who thinks otherwise either didn't see the game or perhaps is so enamored with stats and %s that they can't see the forest from the trees.

Although the Hawks were the dominant team on the night, the flames actually played a pretty good game, keeping them mostly to the outside and actually pinning them in several times. Both teams had some great scoring chances, and both teams had some near misses, posts, etc. Its unfortunate that that last scramble popped right onto Kane's stick and the goalie was screened so little chance on the goal. That happens, especially when you out pucks on the net and drive to the net.

The Hawks get full credit for the win, and actually reminded me of the exact opposite of the Oilers, who won't shoot and wait for the perfect set-up. Flames had some excellent plays and chances and unfortunately missed a couple gimmes but that again, happens.

I'm disappointed in the overall tone of the article, as it seemed very, very negative, sarcastic and didn't really reflect the game/effort of the Flames on the night. I can understand the disappointment but you're not going to win them all. It was a great game and very enjoyable to watch...

Avatar
#10 Johnnydapunk
November 28 2013, 11:53AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
5
props

I will start by saying I'm an Oiler fan first and foremost but I'm not here to flame (no pun intended) or be a dick in any way.

I'm also a huge fan of Berra so every game I have to fight my natural instinct and weirdly hope the flames win when he plays, it is a very awkward feeling admittedly.

Thing with Berra, and I'm sure many will disagree, he needs a lot of game time to get to be a high caliber NHL starter which he has the ability to. He is very much similar to an old school goalie, like a Tim Thomas type who will try to save the puck in any way possible and not just stay in that butterfly robot stance that every goalie is into nowadays. He will get a lot better in time, which sucks when he is relied on with a struggling team. The goals that he has been beat on, have been confusingly common this year for a lot of goalies, these weird angle how-did-that-go-in kind of goals as Luongo had said.

I think a part of it still is getting used to the speed of the NHL compared to the Swiss league, the amount of traffic in front of the net which is a result of the smaller ice surface, and a big one for European goalies coming over, the angles are quote different as the ice is a lot wider in European rinks. I guessing those are the reasons you may see him "out of position" and relying on acrobatic moves to make saves.

Saying all of this, doesn't make anything much better, but perhaps it may give you a bit of hope in the season and seasons after that as the Flames seem to be hoping he will be the new Kipper.

The thing that I think a lot of Flames are forgetting is that Kipper had 2 seasons in the AHL and his first season with the Sharks was nothing to write home about.

Perhaps it would have been better to keep Berra in the AHL for a season or two before calling him up to play? The crap part now is that because Berra is above 25 and has played one NHL game, if the Flames try to send him down, I think he is considered good enough that someone would pick him up as he would need to clear waivers before being sent down. Not saying this to be cruel but playoffs are gonna be very hard to make this year with this format, so maybe it is best to get your goalies playing a lot and just enjoy the season as much as you can. It can hopefully only get better ( though I have been saying that as an Oil fan and look where it has gotten me :-P )

Avatar
#11 Ryan Pike
November 28 2013, 01:26AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
4
props

@Lober

Missed wide-open net that could've extended Flames lead. Iced the puck late that led to game-winning Hawks goal.

Avatar
#12 Primo
November 28 2013, 07:04AM
Trash it!
5
trashes
+1
4
props
Burnward wrote:

This one isn't on Berra to me.

That first goal was a fluke, the second was a no-chancer, the third did beat him...but it should have been out already.

I thought he played well and battled all night.

Not sure what game you were watching?? 3 weak goals by Berra.

Not all is lost...Berra + Ramo = McDavid 2015!

Avatar
#13 Burnward
November 28 2013, 09:54AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
+1
4
props
Primo wrote:

Not sure what game you were watching?? 3 weak goals by Berra.

Not all is lost...Berra + Ramo = McDavid 2015!

Not a chance.

First one he went to poke check the pass across and the deflection off Russell's stick caught him.

Second one was a great passing play that would have beat most anyone.

Third one he probably should have had. It was a weird off-speed backhand that might have messed him up. Still should have had it.

But to say all three were on him is ridiculous.

Avatar
#14 SmellOfVictory
November 28 2013, 10:03AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
4
props
Ryan Pike wrote:

Missed wide-open net that could've extended Flames lead. Iced the puck late that led to game-winning Hawks goal.

I don't think a lot of guys would've gotten the puck in from that angle. It was a 50/50 shot at best.

He did make some glaring mistakes defensively; he was also really unlucky. He was behind Sharp on the second goal, so partially at fault for that one, iced the puck leading to the dzone faceoff prior to the third goal, and additionally when they got possession of the puck after that faceoff, Baertschi had it and couldn't clear the puck, directly leading to that goal.

That said, he looked very good in the offensive zone, and he was aggressive on the backcheck for the most part. Other guys (Stempniak and Cammalleri, to name two off the top of my head) made much worse defensive mistakes than Sven did, but they were lucky enough to get bailed out by Berra or one of their other teammates.

Avatar
#15 piscera.infada
November 28 2013, 10:11AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
4
props
SmellOfVictory wrote:

I don't think a lot of guys would've gotten the puck in from that angle. It was a 50/50 shot at best.

He did make some glaring mistakes defensively; he was also really unlucky. He was behind Sharp on the second goal, so partially at fault for that one, iced the puck leading to the dzone faceoff prior to the third goal, and additionally when they got possession of the puck after that faceoff, Baertschi had it and couldn't clear the puck, directly leading to that goal.

That said, he looked very good in the offensive zone, and he was aggressive on the backcheck for the most part. Other guys (Stempniak and Cammalleri, to name two off the top of my head) made much worse defensive mistakes than Sven did, but they were lucky enough to get bailed out by Berra or one of their other teammates.

Agreed. I actually thought he played pretty well. Hartley must have too, or he wouldn't be out at the end of the game like that.

The icing is simply just growing pains. That happens with young players. He knows he can't do that, but you learn and move on. I mean, off the resulting faceoff, you'd hope Monahan ties up his centre up a little bit better, or wins the draw cleanly (obviously). But I honestly don't see it as anything more than a teaching/learning experience.

Avatar
#16 T&A4Flames
November 28 2013, 10:25AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
4
props

"I understand that the Flames are going to lose a whole lot more games this season but this trend of imploding in the third period really does have to stop. These kinds of losses stick with fans. "

Its going to take time to learn to win for this younger group. Patience. Its a rebuild. Afterall.

Avatar
#17 DoubleDIon
November 28 2013, 10:34AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
4
props
piscera.infada wrote:

While I agree with the need to maintain consistency, it has to be difficult to be consistent as a coach in a situation that is inherently in-flux (see, rebuild). Everything has to be assessed game-to-game, day-to-day. Thus, I don't see the scratchings and the idea to put your best line (in a given game) out in the last minute as being parallel. I won't argue with you if see it that way though. It's a team in a tough situation, and the decisions often reflect that.

As we preach patience for the young players, I believe we should extend patience to the coaching staff. It's a new situation with a lot of new players and moving parts.

That's a fair reply. I don't want to leave the impression that I hate the coaching staff because I definitely don't. I love the system and the way players are being taught a 200 foot game. That's how you win, just look at the Hawks, Blues, Sharks, Kings and Bruins. People say the common denominator is size, but it's really a 200 foot game.

My only issue with the coaching staff is player usage. Has Berra really been so good that he should have played 7 in a row? The Backlund/Bartschi thing has been discussed to death, but it's an issue for me. We bury Backlund, which we should since he's a great defensive player and then expect production. We give Colborne prime real estate and then laud similar production to Backlund.

Overall, I'm for keeping Hartley, but the player usage thing needs to be addressed IMO.

Avatar
#18 Kevin R
November 28 2013, 12:29PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
4
props

I'm in the camp of telling everyone to relax. Rebuild is also spelt as Z A N T A C.

Kids are going to make mistakes, bad ones to boot that costs us games. Is anyone losing sleep over the losing of 1 or 2 points last night? I'm not, something deep down made me feel relieved because I know Monahan is not enough to get us out of the pit. We need 2 more drafts of Monahan type of pedigree players.

Goaltending was going to be interesting. Seems to be a guy by the name of Price has had a few years of just stinking out the joint & being run out of Montreal(remember the Halak trade?) & years of Vezina like invincibility. Guess what, he's a prime candidate for Team Canada. I am a little baffled why Ramo hasn't had a start for a while, I guess they like paying guys 2.8mill to sit on the bench & open the gate.

Welcome to beautiful sunny Alberta, home of the "Rebuild".

Avatar
#19 loudogYYC
November 28 2013, 12:48AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
+1
3
props

@Carlizzle

I'm curious about that too, but I have a feeling it was Backlund for Ruutu or something like that. Carolina is really looking to get rid of 2 or 3 contracts.

That was a painful game to watch, but I really can't be surprised that the best team in the league flipped the game on one of the worst. That still stings, but Baertschi and Monahan probably learned the importance of burying your chances, and hopefully Hartley learned....something. I give up.

Avatar
#20 Gee I wonder...
November 28 2013, 02:45AM
Trash it!
5
trashes
+1
3
props
Double Dion wrote:

Why were Bartschi, Monahan, Hudler and Butler on the ice for the final shift? The player usage decisions are baffling me right now. The only answer I can come up with is we were trying not to get a point. Those 3 forwards should be on the PP, not out for the last shift to try to stem the Hawks momentum. Some combination of Stajan, Backlund, Stempniak and Bouma would have been fine. With 2 of Smid, Brodie or Russell. Hartley's system is great, but his player usage is going to get him a ticket back to the Swiss league. I'm getting tired of watching plays die on the sticks of Colborne and Jones (David) too. Put those big bodies with McGratton.

See the post RIGHT above yours... I suspect it contains the answer to your question...

Avatar
#21 negrilcowboy
November 28 2013, 08:48AM
Trash it!
5
trashes
+1
3
props

the flames goaltending is simply un berra bull. best goalie not playing in the nhl, okay flyin j feaster wheres the intellectual honesty.

Avatar
#22 Graham
November 28 2013, 09:20AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
3
props

Our goaltending so far has been sub par at best, but it is a perfect season for the Flames to play NHL rookie goalies. We don't have much to lose (except points), so give them both plenty of games and let see what, if anything develops. I'm not sure that either of these guys are NHL caliber, but by giving them plenty of opportunities, their futures are in their hands.

Avatar
#23 DoubleDIon
November 28 2013, 10:19AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
3
props
mattyc wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, but the MSM and Hartley keep talking about how great Berra's been playing - I just don't see it. He's always sliding out of position, over-committing, and going down too early. I won't say he cost us the game tonight, because, frankly we were lucky to be leading the way it was going, but he certainly didn't do any favours.

You've hit the nail on the head. I think Berra has really good tools. Good size, quickness and gumby-like. But he is constantly sliding 2 feet outside his crease, dropping well before shots and over-committing to pass lanes. Teams just fire where his shoulder should be, shoot in passing situations and hold the puck until he's slid well past the net. He needs to be coached up and get rid of some bad habits if he's ever going to be an NHL level goaltender. I like his tools though and wouldn't give up on him.

Start Ramo for 5 games and let Berra work with the goalie coach each day.

Avatar
#24 piscera.infada
November 28 2013, 10:50AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
3
props
DoubleDIon wrote:

That's a fair reply. I don't want to leave the impression that I hate the coaching staff because I definitely don't. I love the system and the way players are being taught a 200 foot game. That's how you win, just look at the Hawks, Blues, Sharks, Kings and Bruins. People say the common denominator is size, but it's really a 200 foot game.

My only issue with the coaching staff is player usage. Has Berra really been so good that he should have played 7 in a row? The Backlund/Bartschi thing has been discussed to death, but it's an issue for me. We bury Backlund, which we should since he's a great defensive player and then expect production. We give Colborne prime real estate and then laud similar production to Backlund.

Overall, I'm for keeping Hartley, but the player usage thing needs to be addressed IMO.

I agree with you on the Backlund-Colborne situation. I don't understand burying Backlund, I won't stomp my feet too much about it though, and I really don't mind giving Colborne his fair shake (if you see it that way).

Baertschi seems to be working his way out of Hartley's bad-books. He's being played in more situations and he generally looks good. The way he handled himself through 'sit-gate' probably showed the organization a great deal as well - he handled it as a professional.

I don't see the Berra thing as a situation where he's handily won the starting role. It's not really pragmatic to be oscillating between goalies, playing one or two games at a time. Let one run with the ball for a bit, see if he can get in a groove, and adjust accordingly. Although, I will agree he shouldn't be lauded for his sterling play, because it's been far from sterling. But I mean really, what did we honestly expect out of the goaltending this year? It's fair to say "league average" but, this is a first year guy. At least MacDonald's gone...

"That's how you win, just look at the Hawks, Blues, Sharks, Kings and Bruins. People say the common denominator is size, but it's really a 200 foot game."

Couldn't agree more with that statement.

Avatar
#25 Burnward
November 28 2013, 12:24AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
2
props

@jeremywilhelm

I guess we just saw it differently.

Avatar
#26 beloch
November 28 2013, 04:45AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
2
props

Berra has some great tools, but some huge flaws in his game too.

- He consistently leaves space between himself and the post that sharp-angle shots keep finding.
- He often gets caught out of position.
- He frequently generates turnovers when playing the puck, although he's certainly not the worst of the Flames net-minders for this.
- Finally, he seems to suffer from brief mental lapses in otherwise quality starts.

Is Berra a gem in the rough? There's certainly some polishing that can be done in practice now that the weaknesses in his game are clear. Ramo's been on the shelf for a while now. It's time to dust him off and see if he's picked up anything in practice or if he's just plain hungry enough to produce some quality starts.

Avatar
#27 Primo
November 28 2013, 08:17AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
2
props
Jeff In Lethbridge wrote:

wouldnt it be nice... Ekblad AND McDavid? which means we wouldnt even be competing for a playoff spot for.... 4 years?

Sorry not with Mr. Burke here. No Oiler rebuild model in effect as you suggest. Burkie will build around McDavid, Monahan, Johnny etc within 1-2 years max!

Avatar
#28 DoubleDIon
November 28 2013, 10:13AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
+1
2
props
piscera.infada wrote:

"Why were Bartschi, Monahan, Hudler and Butler on the ice for the final shift? The player usage decisions are baffling me right now. The only answer I can come up with is we were trying not to get a point. Those 3 forwards should be on the PP, not out for the last shift to try to stem the Hawks momentum."

I'm not going to sweat that at this point. I mean, how many times have people on this blog posted something along the lines of "Hartley's player deployment is baffling to me, we're in a rebuild, and we aren't playing our young players, come on Hartley, it's called development". You can't have it both ways.

In my mind, it wasn't a horrible idea at all. You have a young centre in Monahan, that you hope will turn into the kind of centre that you put out there in just that situation. Therefore, you try it based on where that particular game was - a minute left in a tie game, that you really have no business even being in. Either way it goes, it's a learning experience for Monahan and Baertschi. If these are going to be players that you rely on down the road, they need to learn how to win, or how to get a point out of those situations - it's great film room fodder.

I have no issue with player development being the priority. In fact, I'd love it if that was the direction we went. It just doesn't jive with healthy scratching Backlund and Bartschi. I'd like a consistent approach. If you're trying to be competitive and win games that's not a move you make. If you're trying to develop players you don't healthy scratch Bartschi and Backlund. I maintain that Hartley is trying to be competitive in which case it's stupid having that line out in that situation.

Avatar
#29 stumblintrucker
November 28 2013, 10:14AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
2
props

Berra scares the bejesus out of me. His patented body lunge save will only work for so long.

I think unless he starts to remember where the net is situated in the rink teams are going to learn that they have to just be more patient until he slides or lunges into the corner.

Ramo hasn't shown me he is any better but I think he has the tools to be solid if only he gets a shot.

Avatar
#30 DoubleDIon
November 28 2013, 10:15AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
2
props
Gee I wonder... wrote:

See the post RIGHT above yours... I suspect it contains the answer to your question...

No it doesn't. The puck was iced with 31 seconds left. That means they were the line he chose for the final minute of the game.

Avatar
#31 suba steve
November 28 2013, 10:21AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
2
props

One more thing on the line on the ice for the final goal. As @Gee I wonder tried to point out...an iceing preceded that goal, so Hartly did not get to choose his line, he was not putting any extra trust/responsibility on the young guns. The players on the ice for the call simply had to stay on the ice. And I guess that is why Sven will probably be in the press box vs. the Ducks on Friday afternoon.

Avatar
#32 piscera.infada
November 28 2013, 10:26AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
2
props
DoubleDIon wrote:

I have no issue with player development being the priority. In fact, I'd love it if that was the direction we went. It just doesn't jive with healthy scratching Backlund and Bartschi. I'd like a consistent approach. If you're trying to be competitive and win games that's not a move you make. If you're trying to develop players you don't healthy scratch Bartschi and Backlund. I maintain that Hartley is trying to be competitive in which case it's stupid having that line out in that situation.

While I agree with the need to maintain consistency, it has to be difficult to be consistent as a coach in a situation that is inherently in-flux (see, rebuild). Everything has to be assessed game-to-game, day-to-day. Thus, I don't see the scratchings and the idea to put your best line (in a given game) out in the last minute as being parallel. I won't argue with you if see it that way though. It's a team in a tough situation, and the decisions often reflect that.

As we preach patience for the young players, I believe we should extend patience to the coaching staff. It's a new situation with a lot of new players and moving parts.

Avatar
#33 MonsterPod
November 28 2013, 10:30AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
2
props

I love when this happens -- teams trying to protect leads blow it. TO was up two goals yesterday against Pitt and Pitt came out in the third and out shot the Leafs 17-0, tying it up and winning in the SO.

Flames did the same thing being outshot 15-2 in the third and also blew it. Players and coaches need to learn to counter-punch, not just lay against the ropes.

Avatar
#34 Carlizzle
November 28 2013, 12:24AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
+1
1
props

I know this has been beaten to death, but, any insight on who was offered in return from Carolina for Backs?

Avatar
#35 Byron Bader
November 28 2013, 09:06AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
1
props

Nice job, Taylor!

That Baertschi combo of missing the open net, icing the puck and then failing to get it out of the zone at the end of the game was a crying shame. Hartley might have already penciled him in for the press box after that.

Avatar
#36 mattyc
November 28 2013, 09:23AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
1
props

Maybe I'm missing something, but the MSM and Hartley keep talking about how great Berra's been playing - I just don't see it. He's always sliding out of position, over-committing, and going down too early. I won't say he cost us the game tonight, because, frankly we were lucky to be leading the way it was going, but he certainly didn't do any favours.

Avatar
#37 Burnward
November 28 2013, 10:08AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props

@suba steve

Preach.

Avatar
#38 cccsberg
November 28 2013, 11:55AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props
DoubleDIon wrote:

I have no issue with player development being the priority. In fact, I'd love it if that was the direction we went. It just doesn't jive with healthy scratching Backlund and Bartschi. I'd like a consistent approach. If you're trying to be competitive and win games that's not a move you make. If you're trying to develop players you don't healthy scratch Bartschi and Backlund. I maintain that Hartley is trying to be competitive in which case it's stupid having that line out in that situation.

I think overall Sven payed pretty decent. Having that line out at the end perhaps not the best, but they were definitely one of the best lines on the night, plus I do believe the top line had just gone off previously. In the mad scramble of the last several minutes of the game you can't necessarily get your ideal match-up out the last shift. Relax, that last goal was another Hawk's lucky bounce off a skate right to Kane, with Berra blocked on the other side because he was covering the initial shot.

Avatar
#39 exsanguinator
November 28 2013, 06:46PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props
piscera.infada wrote:

"Why were Bartschi, Monahan, Hudler and Butler on the ice for the final shift? The player usage decisions are baffling me right now. The only answer I can come up with is we were trying not to get a point. Those 3 forwards should be on the PP, not out for the last shift to try to stem the Hawks momentum."

I'm not going to sweat that at this point. I mean, how many times have people on this blog posted something along the lines of "Hartley's player deployment is baffling to me, we're in a rebuild, and we aren't playing our young players, come on Hartley, it's called development". You can't have it both ways.

In my mind, it wasn't a horrible idea at all. You have a young centre in Monahan, that you hope will turn into the kind of centre that you put out there in just that situation. Therefore, you try it based on where that particular game was - a minute left in a tie game, that you really have no business even being in. Either way it goes, it's a learning experience for Monahan and Baertschi. If these are going to be players that you rely on down the road, they need to learn how to win, or how to get a point out of those situations - it's great film room fodder.

This is exactly what I was going to post.

Avatar
#40 Lober
November 28 2013, 12:37AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Missed the game, I heard Sven didn't have a good game. Anyone fill me in?

Avatar
#41 Burnward
November 28 2013, 12:56AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
0
props

@Lober

Brutes.

Avatar
#42 Jeff In Lethbridge
November 28 2013, 07:43AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
+1
0
props

@Primo

wouldnt it be nice... Ekblad AND McDavid? which means we wouldnt even be competing for a playoff spot for.... 4 years?

Comments are closed for this article.