Flames acquire Smid for Horak

Kent Wilson
November 08 2013 05:34PM

 

 

The first ever trade between the Flames and Oilers involved an entirely mediocre defender (Steve Staios!). That's pretty much true of the second ever trade between the clubs as well, except this time at least the dude isn't completely over the hill.

Word came down this evening that the Flames have moved Roman Horak and G Laurent Brossoit for Ladislav Smid and G Olivier Roy.

Smid is 27 years old and one of the guys attained for Chris Pronger when he demanded a trade out of Edmonton started their downward spiral. He is entirely uninspiring as an NHLer - he has limited offense (career high 15 points) and doesn't do anything in particular well. Smid has spent a lot of time taking on tough minutes for Edmonton the last few years, but he's also spent most of the that time getting beat up. In fact, part of the Oilers on-going issues could be ably summed up by saying "Smid is a top-4 defender on this team".

Which isn't to say Smid is completely useless. At 27 he's near the peak age for NHLers. He's big at 6'3, 209 pounds and he can hold his own in most physical confrontations. If the Flames plan is to sub him at the end of the rotation in favor of O'Brien, Billins, Breen or Smith, then that's probably a step up. Otherwise, meh.

I was never as high as Roman Horak as some others, but I'm surprised the club moved him along for an eminently replaceable defender. Hartley clearly wasn't anywhere near as enamoured with the former Ranger draft pick as Brent Sutter, so maybe the organization figured he was never going to crack the big club anyways. 

Brossoit and Roy are a swap of netminding prospects. The success of Jon Gillies probably made Brossoit seem expendable to the Flames, but even then I'm guessing this part of the deal was executed at the request of the Oilers (since Roy is an inferior prospect).

UPDATE - here is JW's take for Oilersnation.

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Former Nations Overlord. Current FN contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#51 coachedpotatoe
November 09 2013, 04:51AM
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Renslip wrote:

be less drunk; post response in wrong thread less times

Not drunk, post game thread not up when I posted and opps like many others on this site I made a computer error, So very sorry.

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#52 STIXLER
November 09 2013, 06:54AM
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Burnward wrote:

Gio-Brodie Wideman-Smid

Pretty solid top four moving forward. Rebuiding through good trades and not tanking. Makes me very happy.

Kent Said "In fact, part of the Oilers on-going issues could be ably summed up by saying "Smid is a top-4 defender on this team".

I like Smid but Kent is kinda right

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#53 suba steve
November 09 2013, 06:57AM
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@Jeff In Lethbridge

Smid could easily be an attractive asset at the trade deadline as well. You may want to hold off on that jersey, or get the Velcro option for the name plate. If Feaster could swap him for a good prospect/picks at the deadline, that could be a nice short term flip for the organization. Smid will definitely have more value than Horak/Brossoit at the deadline.

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#54 coachedpotatoe
November 09 2013, 07:44AM
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How does the addition of Smid impact our defensive pairings? I suspect for most of us the initial response is move Butler away from TJ (based upon the Butler hate from earlier in the season and I admit I was part of that group)Butler has played his best hockey in two years playing with TJ and it has not seriously compromised TJ's game.When Butler and O'b played together they were both bad;Ob has played better with Smith or Billings but the problem is that grouping cannot play enough minutes to take the pressure off the Wides/ Russell or TJ/Butler pairing. So what to do with Smid? I would consider this for now; keep TJ/B together and break up the Russell/Wides pair and come up with this Wides/O'b and Russell/Smid. THis way you have three effective pairings.

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#55 SoCalFlamesFan
November 09 2013, 08:29AM
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Would this trade also be considered as an intervention or mercy trade for Smid?

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#56 HongKongHockeyFan
November 09 2013, 08:58AM
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I honestly do not not know what to think of this trade??? While the team who gets the best player typically wins the trade, I'm not 100% sure that applies in the salary cap world

Smid has always kind of impressed me but he is playing for the Oil, which is a crappy team (or poorly coached team). Admittedly from what I understand he signed a hometown discount but nonetheless I'm not sure he is worth 3.5 million for a 4/5/6th defensemen. Adding him to a line up that has SOB, who is also overpaid makes me wonder all he more!

At least the Flames did not bite on JML of the Leafs!

I have to admit I always liked Roman Horak because I think he has upside but obviously does not fit the new Brian Burke-led Flames mode, especially when you have potential/similar centres like Max Reinhart and Markus Granlund in the fold.

But it is clear Smid will upgrade Calgary's D temporarily

Anyways, I just wanna to say at the end of the day, didn't Backlund look great today (despite his penalty call)!!! I hope the Flames don't give up on this dude!

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#57 piscera.infada
November 09 2013, 09:19AM
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HongKongHockeyFan wrote:

I honestly do not not know what to think of this trade??? While the team who gets the best player typically wins the trade, I'm not 100% sure that applies in the salary cap world

Smid has always kind of impressed me but he is playing for the Oil, which is a crappy team (or poorly coached team). Admittedly from what I understand he signed a hometown discount but nonetheless I'm not sure he is worth 3.5 million for a 4/5/6th defensemen. Adding him to a line up that has SOB, who is also overpaid makes me wonder all he more!

At least the Flames did not bite on JML of the Leafs!

I have to admit I always liked Roman Horak because I think he has upside but obviously does not fit the new Brian Burke-led Flames mode, especially when you have potential/similar centres like Max Reinhart and Markus Granlund in the fold.

But it is clear Smid will upgrade Calgary's D temporarily

Anyways, I just wanna to say at the end of the day, didn't Backlund look great today (despite his penalty call)!!! I hope the Flames don't give up on this dude!

In my view, Horak was redundant in the organization, as you point out. The players he would be fighting for a spot with are either young than him, or bring more to the table in my opinion.

I find it every interesting that this trade is seen as a harbinger of a greater deal for Edmonton, which is likely, but as I see it, it also means something for the Flames in that regard. Butler/SOB/Smith now become expendable (with the return of Gio, of course). Not saying that either of those are worth much, but parceled with something (ie, cap space), I think you could see a pretty cushy deal being worked out.

In regards to Smid's contract, I agree with you that he will be an over-payed bottom pairing defenseman. That said, I think the contract is actually not that bad. We have cap space, and should have cap space for the remaining four seasons. As this team slowly crescendos and contracts thusly get more expensive, the Smid contract will be coming of the books - that is if we don't even look at the possibility that he plays well, and becomes a movable asset down the road.

Smid could also give us a great bottom pairing guy to play alongside Seiloff and/or Wotherspoon, as those kids begin to show they are ready. I mean, serious question: would you rather have Butler/SOB-Seiloff/WSpoon, or Smid-Seiloff/WSpoon? I think the answer is fairly clear...

As far as Brossoit, I'm not too happy that he moves out, but I understand that he's probably the guy in this trade that makes all of the above possible. I just hope it doesn't come back to continually bite us in the ass down the road.

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#58 Burnward
November 09 2013, 09:36AM
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@STIXLER

I respectfully disagree with Kent's assessment. I think he'll fit in very nicely. If I'm wrong, I will own that.

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#59 John
November 09 2013, 09:47AM
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I think Feaster basically made this trade because Giordano is out and that really hurts the Flames. Not that Smid can replace Gio but at least he's better at this point than our defense prospects. Too bad Brossoit didn't get a fair chance to show his stuff for the NHL club but I think he would have been eventually shuffled out aka like Leland Irving. Anyways, its obvious the Oilers need him more than we do, cause you'd have to be desperate to sign Brysgalov after his circus show in Philly.

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#60 piscera.infada
November 09 2013, 10:01AM
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@John

I would say with Brossoit, it was highly unlikely he would have developed properly in our system with the current logjam anyway. Ortio clearly beat him out in the AHL, so Brossoit ended up in the ECHL - which probably isn't the best place for him to ply his trade. With Ortio, Berra, Ramo, and that pesky McBackup still around, it's highly unlikely Brossoit would have been given the chance until next year, where he then has one year of backing up Ortio (likely) before Gilles comes in - and that likely the prospect you want to develop more than either of those guys.

That said, I wish we would have traded him outside the division, hell, out of the conference. But, he's not established enough at any level other than the WHL to really warrant worrying about it at this point, especially if he's going to be the reason a deal does, or doesn't get done.

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#61 BJ
November 09 2013, 10:11AM
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maybe going forward further into the season we are looking at something like:

Brodie/Gio Russell/Wideman Smid/Billins SOB/Breen

It is somewhat improved... hopefully slot Sieloff or Wotherspoon in to replace SOB next year... getting better but the top4 still needs some improvement

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#62 BJ
November 09 2013, 10:16AM
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Butler and Smith to Philly for Meszaros and a 4thRnd 2014

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#63 Baalzamon
November 09 2013, 10:47AM
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Hartley likes the Russell - Wideman pair, so that probably stays intact. I wonder if, when Giordano comes back, we're looking at something like this:

Giordano - Brodie

Russell - Wideman

Butler - Smid

Finally, all six defensemen will be players Hartley trusts for more than ten minutes per game.

And, as someone here mentioned, Smid may actually be trade deadline bait. Maybe. Teams are always looking for defensemen around that time..

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#64 coachedpotatoe
November 09 2013, 11:05AM
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Baalzamon wrote:

Hartley likes the Russell - Wideman pair, so that probably stays intact. I wonder if, when Giordano comes back, we're looking at something like this:

Giordano - Brodie

Russell - Wideman

Butler - Smid

Finally, all six defensemen will be players Hartley trusts for more than ten minutes per game.

And, as someone here mentioned, Smid may actually be trade deadline bait. Maybe. Teams are always looking for defensemen around that time..

I agree that this looks like a possible good use these guys when Gio gets back. What about now?

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#65 Jeff Lebowski
November 09 2013, 11:13AM
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This deal is great for both Horak and Brossoit. I believe both have upside. Horak will play his best position and Brossoit becomes valued higher in EDMs system.

Essentially it shows the quality of Calgary's 'acquisition of young players' ability. Who wins or loses will take time to flesh out.

In podcast, Steve Dangle had a pro scout talk about asset management/evaluation. How does a team influence the value of their assets?

Feaster has built up the prospect pool and it has raised the precieved value amongst other GMs.

People talking about what Horak/Brossoit are/ will be don't know what they are talking about. Everything is different for them now and they may turn out great (but Ortio Gillies will be better). Hard to predict future. I do agree that right now Calgary has better prospects at those positions

My only issue is given EDM gave up an NHL player in the deal could CGY gotten a better return elsewhere?

Apparently they really like Smid's game. From reading ON it seems he was at his best when he wasn't relied on to move puck but play physical and battle. Sounds like a great fit for TJ Brodie but who knows?

What I do love is that Max, Knight, Backlund, Baertschi, Granlund, Ortio or Gillies weren't moved.

Arnold, Agostino, Jooris all have upside too.

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#66 SeanCharles
November 09 2013, 11:16AM
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Baalzamon wrote:

Hartley likes the Russell - Wideman pair, so that probably stays intact. I wonder if, when Giordano comes back, we're looking at something like this:

Giordano - Brodie

Russell - Wideman

Butler - Smid

Finally, all six defensemen will be players Hartley trusts for more than ten minutes per game.

And, as someone here mentioned, Smid may actually be trade deadline bait. Maybe. Teams are always looking for defensemen around that time..

Smid is not gonna be trade deadline bait.

If anyone will be that out of our d it will be Butler.

I don't know why everyone is so critical of this deal. Smid was playing for the Oilers, remember the team that has been bottom feeding for years now.

Smid is a top-4. He was probably used as a top-2 and he didn't have much support.

Give him a chance before you chastise his so swiftly. I still remember a lot of people not overly liking Russell that much at the start of the year either.

I like the top-5 options we have now. We needed a shutdown guy, we have a lot of puck movers so he should be a perfect fit.

We are a better team today. We needed a top-4 and I think in time people will see we got just that.

The Flames have been winning a lot of trades lately. This was Feaster using his cap space to his advantage to a desperate team who needed to change things up.

Not many teams could have taken Smid's salary back without anything coming back so this is a big win. Gio, Brodie, Russell, Wideman and Smid gives us respectable defensive depth. You can play those 5 for big minutes instead of over working 4 players every night.

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#67 Michael
November 09 2013, 11:30AM
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Unfortunately for Horak, Backlund has turned into the player that many people thought Horak might be, a defensive minded center that can drive the play, but with little scoring potential. Playing with Cammy, might be the Backlunds last chance in Calgary to show that he is really a to six forward. The coaches don't seem to like him, so he might well get packaged off in a trade for a player like ROR

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#68 Burnward
November 09 2013, 11:34AM
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@SeanCharles

Yep. It also allows us to not rush the kids into the line-up and let them develop at the pace they need to in the AHL.

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#69 Kevin R
November 09 2013, 12:43PM
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SeanCharles wrote:

Smid is not gonna be trade deadline bait.

If anyone will be that out of our d it will be Butler.

I don't know why everyone is so critical of this deal. Smid was playing for the Oilers, remember the team that has been bottom feeding for years now.

Smid is a top-4. He was probably used as a top-2 and he didn't have much support.

Give him a chance before you chastise his so swiftly. I still remember a lot of people not overly liking Russell that much at the start of the year either.

I like the top-5 options we have now. We needed a shutdown guy, we have a lot of puck movers so he should be a perfect fit.

We are a better team today. We needed a top-4 and I think in time people will see we got just that.

The Flames have been winning a lot of trades lately. This was Feaster using his cap space to his advantage to a desperate team who needed to change things up.

Not many teams could have taken Smid's salary back without anything coming back so this is a big win. Gio, Brodie, Russell, Wideman and Smid gives us respectable defensive depth. You can play those 5 for big minutes instead of over working 4 players every night.

Yeah I agree to some extent Smid wont be dangled but if we are clear sellers at the deadline (which is pretty much a given), a playoff team badly needing reliable 4-5 Dman would probably cough up a 1st rounder + a prospect for Smid at the deadline. Next year cap going up that 3.5 for 3(? or 2) more years has value. Smid is only 27 right now. No one is giving that up for Brossoit & Horak.

We needed a bigger 3-4-5 dman who is capable of clearing the front of the net badly. I was kind of hoping we could of extorted Myers out of Buffalo but the price would have been steep & anti productive for our rebuild. This deal is a way better fit the more I'm thinking about it. Never ever considered Smid because I never thought we'd do a deal with the Oilers again. Thing is, not many teams could eat the salary with nothing going back the way the Flames have positioned themselves. I'm liking this deal more & more & we may like it even more once we see Smid play his game now that he has veteran D support to play with. I cant believe the Oilers did this.

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#70 Baalzamon
November 09 2013, 01:18PM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

I agree that this looks like a possible good use these guys when Gio gets back. What about now?

hmm. For now, I see Smid playing with Brodie, at least to start. Having large, physical Smid probably means Hartley is less inclined to keep O'Brien in. Maybe? I hope?

Anyway, I think Butler goes with Smith for the bottom pair. That puts a mobile dman who can't play with the puck (Butler) with a mobile dman who can't play without the puck (Smith). On the whole, I see that working better than putting Butler with another guy who can't handle the puck.

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#71 everton fc
November 09 2013, 02:20PM
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Both teams win here. The Flames get a d-man they desperately need. Now. And can hold onto in a bottom pairing down the road, though Smid may indeed become a component to a bigger trade come deadline-time.

Oilers unload a goalie prospect who'll never play in the NHL regularly, and get Brossoit, who I think will. But that's me. They also get Horak, who can fill a need on their bottom two lines. Horak will get ice time in Edmonton, me thinks. And I think he'll do well.

Obviously, the rumours of the Oilers making a big deal with the Flyers seem more real, not to mention imminent. Is Meszaros is better than Smid? Different type of player, for sure, but will fit in better in Edmonton. They may also have their eyes on another defencemen, as well. The Oilers are weak on the back-end, and in their bottom two lines. So they are addressing that need. Or so it seems.

If the Oilers get Simmonds somehow - great move. Would love to see Simmonds in a Flames jersey. Could Yakupov be the bait going the other way??

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#72 MangoTanker
November 09 2013, 03:30PM
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Michael wrote:

Unfortunately for Horak, Backlund has turned into the player that many people thought Horak might be, a defensive minded center that can drive the play, but with little scoring potential. Playing with Cammy, might be the Backlunds last chance in Calgary to show that he is really a to six forward. The coaches don't seem to like him, so he might well get packaged off in a trade for a player like ROR

I don't think ROR is leaving Colarado anytime soon, especially now that Roy is the head coach and Sakic is in charge of the Hockey OPs.

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#73 Justin Azevedo
November 09 2013, 04:14PM
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can we please stop talking about tyler myers? he hasn't been good for 3 years.

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#74 beloch
November 09 2013, 06:06PM
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@everton fc

If the oilers sold Smid only to replace him with Meszaros, I weep for Edmonton. Meszaros got his head bashed in on the flyer's bottom pair last year worse than Smid got his bashed in on Edmonton's top pair! He might have a bit more offense than Smid, but Edmonton is not a team that should be trading defense for offense right now!

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#75 loudogYYC
November 09 2013, 11:35PM
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I've totally warmed up to this deal. At first I was pissed cuz I like Horak and I didn't know much about Smid. The only think I don't like about Smid is the 3 years left at $3.5M, it makes me think of Sarich's last 3 years on his $3.6M/yr contract. Way too much money for such a limited player. I hope Smid turns out to be better than Sarich was.

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#76 beloch
November 10 2013, 03:51AM
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I watch the occasional Oilers game, so I'm accustomed to seeing the League's best and brightest utterly humiliate Smid pretty much every time he's out on the ice. As such, I was initially dismayed to see him acquired by the Flames. Some Oiler fans are pretty happy to write Smid off too, saying that he's been declining for years. However, the Oilers have such horrible depth in defense that Smid has been on their top pairing more often than not for years. He hasn't declined, he's been thrown out against tougher and tougher competition. He's faced the toughest combination of zone-starts and QoC of any oiler this season, and that's including Petry!

To sum up, the Flames just snatched one of the Oilers' top two defenders to play on their bottom pairing (once Gio is back), and all they had to give up were a pair of prospects who didn't look like they were likely to crack the Flames' roster any time soon. This is a minor win for the Flames, but if MacT doesn't use the cap-space he liberated to bring back a stud defender to replace Smid, this is a huge loss for the Oilers. It's nice to see Burke and Feaster pull off another heist!

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#77 coachedpotatoe
November 10 2013, 08:01AM
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Anyone in the nation going to his first practice to see who they pair him with? Feaster said the trade was made to take minutes away from the top two pairings.(create 3 sound pairings) Hopefully that means now and not until Gio gets back. Now if they would apply this same logic to the forwards and sit the guys who only play 5-8 minutes a game and bring up players from the farm that have earned another look or a first look.(Yes back to my favorite topic of rolling 4 lines)

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#78 MWflames
November 10 2013, 12:45PM
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Little late to the party, but here are my thoughts:

- Praise management for properly identifying areas of weakness. This team needed a stay at home defender badly. Smid will help spread the work load, and should be an improvement on the PK and in defending a lead type situations. Also, our top four was performing well with everyone healthy, but our abysmal depth was obvious when gio went down. Smid is much much better suited for top four when injuries occur than Butler.

- Praise management for identify areas of strength. Horak and Brossoit were redundant assets. We have lots of utility/depth guys like Horak coming through the ranks over the next few years and it would have been quite a crowded bottom 6. Also, everyone and their dogs are predicting Gillies to make a mark at the NHL level before Brossoit, so he probably would have been shoved down the depth chart barring major breakthroughs.

- Praise management for receiving value on the trade. Any who thinks Horak & Brossoit had much trade value is nuts. We got a quality depth defencemen (and I don't mean like an O'brien or Sarich type depth defencemen, Smid can play). We got a little lucky as Edm probably had a hard-on for their home grown fan favourite Brossoit, but from a VALUE perspective, this is a steal.

I don't even think this a knee-jerk reaction to Gio going down either. This is simply bolstering a defensive core, that desperatly needs it (with or without Gio), with expendable assets. Smid's contract is likely pretty respectable and I cannot see it hampering this team in any way. Will be decent trade bait in a year or two as well.

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#79 Deaner_
November 10 2013, 01:04PM
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So does this mean the Erixon trade breaks down to Smid, Wotherspoon and Granlund for Erixon...?? Clear flames win.

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#80 Baalzamon
November 10 2013, 01:32PM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

Anyone in the nation going to his first practice to see who they pair him with? Feaster said the trade was made to take minutes away from the top two pairings.(create 3 sound pairings) Hopefully that means now and not until Gio gets back. Now if they would apply this same logic to the forwards and sit the guys who only play 5-8 minutes a game and bring up players from the farm that have earned another look or a first look.(Yes back to my favorite topic of rolling 4 lines)

huh. Well, if they put Smid with, say, Derek Smith on the third pair, they could probably play about 15 per game. I say Smith because he can actually play with the puck, unlike O'Brien.

I still think they're probably thinking of playing Smid in Gio's spot until he comes back, but it's nice to know that they're not proclaiming that they just got the next great defenseman.

I'm still waiting for Feaster to preposterously over-sell Olivier Roy... they haven't really talked about expectations other than sending him to Alaska.

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#81 Kevin R
November 10 2013, 04:08PM
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loudogYYC wrote:

I've totally warmed up to this deal. At first I was pissed cuz I like Horak and I didn't know much about Smid. The only think I don't like about Smid is the 3 years left at $3.5M, it makes me think of Sarich's last 3 years on his $3.6M/yr contract. Way too much money for such a limited player. I hope Smid turns out to be better than Sarich was.

Smid is only 27 years old. Remember that so way younger than Sarich. He also didn't have the veteran dmen to play with to enable him to play within his strengths. I am looking forward to seeing him play & see how he does.

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#82 ChinookArch
November 10 2013, 05:25PM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

Anyone in the nation going to his first practice to see who they pair him with? Feaster said the trade was made to take minutes away from the top two pairings.(create 3 sound pairings) Hopefully that means now and not until Gio gets back. Now if they would apply this same logic to the forwards and sit the guys who only play 5-8 minutes a game and bring up players from the farm that have earned another look or a first look.(Yes back to my favorite topic of rolling 4 lines)

This. Yes!

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#83 Jeff In Lethbridge
November 10 2013, 06:40PM
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isnt the act of trading with the oilers akin to blasphame and colaborating with the enemy all rolled up in one?

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#84 Kevin R
November 10 2013, 09:37PM
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Jeff In Lethbridge wrote:

isnt the act of trading with the oilers akin to blasphame and colaborating with the enemy all rolled up in one?

These are dark days in Alberta. I think we may need to help each other to get out of the pit. Like Captain Jack Sparrow would say " Well mate, not trading with the enemy is really a guideline not a set rule" :-)

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