Flames acquire Smid for Horak

Kent Wilson
November 08 2013 05:34PM

 

 

The first ever trade between the Flames and Oilers involved an entirely mediocre defender (Steve Staios!). That's pretty much true of the second ever trade between the clubs as well, except this time at least the dude isn't completely over the hill.

Word came down this evening that the Flames have moved Roman Horak and G Laurent Brossoit for Ladislav Smid and G Olivier Roy.

Smid is 27 years old and one of the guys attained for Chris Pronger when he demanded a trade out of Edmonton started their downward spiral. He is entirely uninspiring as an NHLer - he has limited offense (career high 15 points) and doesn't do anything in particular well. Smid has spent a lot of time taking on tough minutes for Edmonton the last few years, but he's also spent most of the that time getting beat up. In fact, part of the Oilers on-going issues could be ably summed up by saying "Smid is a top-4 defender on this team".

Which isn't to say Smid is completely useless. At 27 he's near the peak age for NHLers. He's big at 6'3, 209 pounds and he can hold his own in most physical confrontations. If the Flames plan is to sub him at the end of the rotation in favor of O'Brien, Billins, Breen or Smith, then that's probably a step up. Otherwise, meh.

I was never as high as Roman Horak as some others, but I'm surprised the club moved him along for an eminently replaceable defender. Hartley clearly wasn't anywhere near as enamoured with the former Ranger draft pick as Brent Sutter, so maybe the organization figured he was never going to crack the big club anyways. 

Brossoit and Roy are a swap of netminding prospects. The success of Jon Gillies probably made Brossoit seem expendable to the Flames, but even then I'm guessing this part of the deal was executed at the request of the Oilers (since Roy is an inferior prospect).

UPDATE - here is JW's take for Oilersnation.

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Former Nations Overlord. Current Fn contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#1 bookofloob
November 08 2013, 05:41PM
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Gio's coming back eventually, and Russell has learned how to be an NHL defenseman, so when you look at it as Smid being the 5th D, this is a pretty good deal. The Flames backend is better, and while I loved Horak, he was never going to be a regular Flame, certainly not in a Bob Hartley era.

I'll miss that dude, but this is a good deal for Calgary in the end.

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#3 Cowtown 1989
November 08 2013, 05:43PM
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Good on Jay (Burkie?). One advantage of stockpiling prospects is to flip some for actual NHLers. Our D is small so this helps. Sad to see Brossoit go but the Oil must have seen him a ton right under their nose at Rexall. Good luck with that D Bryz.

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#4 schevvy
November 08 2013, 05:39PM
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Smid's a top 4 on the Flames right now with Gio hurt..

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#5 suba steve
November 09 2013, 06:57AM
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@Jeff In Lethbridge

Smid could easily be an attractive asset at the trade deadline as well. You may want to hold off on that jersey, or get the Velcro option for the name plate. If Feaster could swap him for a good prospect/picks at the deadline, that could be a nice short term flip for the organization. Smid will definitely have more value than Horak/Brossoit at the deadline.

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#6 Burnward
November 09 2013, 09:36AM
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@STIXLER

I respectfully disagree with Kent's assessment. I think he'll fit in very nicely. If I'm wrong, I will own that.

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#7 Baalzamon
November 08 2013, 07:44PM
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@O REALLY NOW

"Does anyone know much about Roy?"

Well, let me put it this way: I'll be astonished if, one day, Roy becomes half the goalie Joey MacDonald is.

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#8 Burnward
November 08 2013, 08:34PM
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Gio-Brodie Wideman-Smid

Pretty solid top four moving forward. Rebuiding through good trades and not tanking. Makes me very happy.

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#9 Colin.S
November 08 2013, 05:42PM
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Time to dump SoB and go with Smid along with either Butler or Smith on the third pairing once Giordano is back and healthy.

The trade is a salary dump for Oilers and not really going to affect the outcome of the season for the Flames.

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#10 Sapp
November 08 2013, 05:46PM
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Kent, I think we can safely put Smid ahead of Chris 'can I assist you with a goal against' Butler as well.

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#11 the-wolf
November 08 2013, 06:46PM
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Mind blowing pick up for the Flames? No, but it's hard to look at this from any angle other than as a win. Agree Smidgen is a 3rd pairing guy on a great team, but I also cut him slack given the almost zero back checking support from the Oilers forwards combined with mediocre goaltending. 2 mediocre prospects for a real, actual NHL D and another mediocre prospect back. Solid trade in Flames' favor.

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#12 ChinookArch
November 08 2013, 06:20PM
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Interesting in that Calgary unloads a centre since there are plenty of centres (especially if you count Galliardi and Reinhardt).

I don't get this from an Oiler perspective, they needed 3 more NHL d-men, with Smid in the line up. They must be working a deal for at least another defensemen.

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#13 Parallex
November 08 2013, 07:09PM
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I like this trade a bunch. Smid was one of the few defenders on Edm that I have time for and this trade makes the Oilers worse (bonus). and Horak... well I said at the beginning of the year that he seemed tweenerish ala Dustin Boyd and I haven't seen anything to change that assessment. Goalie Prospect for Goalie prospect I'm guessing Brosseit is probably the better one but evs... goalies take forever before you know what you've got.

I like this deal a lot, hard not to considering the depth (or lack there of) of quality D.

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#14 Walter White
November 08 2013, 07:28PM
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So since Burke arrived we have acquired;

9th overall pick, 27 year old, big d man

16 overall pick, 23 year old, big center

For just about nothing........decent start, Burke!!!

WW

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#15 Victoria Flames Fan
November 08 2013, 08:45PM
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If that means Butler's gone, it's worth it!

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#16 O REALLY NOW
November 08 2013, 05:46PM
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Me thinks Edmonton is offloading cap size for another deal, otherwise it doesn't really make all that sense to me as aren't they hurting on defense as it is???

I think Smid will turn out to be a solid pickup for the Flames. Plays with grit, something that will definitely make our blue line a little tougher. I also think he's a guy who will buy into Hartley's putting forth effort every game type mentality.

Does anyone know much about Roy?

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#17 Spoils
November 08 2013, 06:29PM
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@oilers suck

apparently Smid was a cap move and the bold one is coming. We'll see - for now the boldest move you can try is this -

"SCHMEEEEEED"

try saying it.

schmeeeeeeed - use a lower comical tone.

He is a tough SOB and will battle hard for you.

congrats.

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#18 RexLibris
November 08 2013, 05:48PM
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Two Edmonton Calgary trades in my lifetime. Never thought I'd live to see one.

Oilers have signed Bryzgalov.

ugh...

On the other hand, the reporters are toasting the quotes they'll expect to get.

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#19 Michael
November 08 2013, 06:56PM
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Decent depth signing for the Flames, the last few games without Gio have clearly shown that they need some NHL caliber 'depth' on the blue line. Smid is a decent defensive d man, good size with what looks to be a reasonable contract.

Didn't give up much, Horak didn't really show much more than replacement / 4th line talent and recent signing have bumped him down the depth chart, making him expendable. Edmonton got the better goalie prospect.

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#20 Chris
November 08 2013, 07:11PM
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If Brossoit lives up to his potential, then in ten years, Smid will be the answer to a trivia question: who did the Oilers trade to get Laurent Brossoit?

The Flames win this one for the short term, but the Oilers for the long. Which is a bit odd for a Flames team that is allegedly in the first two years of a rebuild.

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#21 SeanCharles
November 09 2013, 11:16AM
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Baalzamon wrote:

Hartley likes the Russell - Wideman pair, so that probably stays intact. I wonder if, when Giordano comes back, we're looking at something like this:

Giordano - Brodie

Russell - Wideman

Butler - Smid

Finally, all six defensemen will be players Hartley trusts for more than ten minutes per game.

And, as someone here mentioned, Smid may actually be trade deadline bait. Maybe. Teams are always looking for defensemen around that time..

Smid is not gonna be trade deadline bait.

If anyone will be that out of our d it will be Butler.

I don't know why everyone is so critical of this deal. Smid was playing for the Oilers, remember the team that has been bottom feeding for years now.

Smid is a top-4. He was probably used as a top-2 and he didn't have much support.

Give him a chance before you chastise his so swiftly. I still remember a lot of people not overly liking Russell that much at the start of the year either.

I like the top-5 options we have now. We needed a shutdown guy, we have a lot of puck movers so he should be a perfect fit.

We are a better team today. We needed a top-4 and I think in time people will see we got just that.

The Flames have been winning a lot of trades lately. This was Feaster using his cap space to his advantage to a desperate team who needed to change things up.

Not many teams could have taken Smid's salary back without anything coming back so this is a big win. Gio, Brodie, Russell, Wideman and Smid gives us respectable defensive depth. You can play those 5 for big minutes instead of over working 4 players every night.

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#22 Justin Azevedo
November 09 2013, 04:14PM
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can we please stop talking about tyler myers? he hasn't been good for 3 years.

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#24 SeanCharles
November 08 2013, 06:14PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

BTW, Smid is signed for the next 4 years at about 2.8M/year.

Also, of note of course is the fact that Burke drafted Smid and was pretty high on him. Hell, he said the second best on-ice awareness after Scott Niedermayer (add that the sizable file that reads 'disregard anything GM's say about prospects soon after they draft them.'

Cap hit isn't 2.8 its closer to 3.5.

2.8 is what is remaining for this season.

Also wasn't Smid drafted when Burke was still in Vancouver...?

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#25 Steve
November 08 2013, 06:16PM
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I'm curious why we would give up brossoit? Definitely more upside then Roy....

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#26 Jeff In Lethbridge
November 08 2013, 07:11PM
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Smell Burke all over this one. Feaster who???

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#27 Kevin R
November 08 2013, 07:14PM
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Horak couldn't crack the lineup this year, what chances would he have next year with Arnold, Gaudreau, Klimchuk & Porrier in the fold. May as well move him but he probably will surface & maybe even make it for a while in the bottom 6 of the Oilers. Brossoit had lots of potential but with Berra & Ramo not going anywhere soon & Ortio outplaying him, not surew good of a chance Brossoit would have had with us. He has better career opportunities with the Oilers. Ok deal for both teams. Smid will be harder to play against than Butler or Smith, he may even push Russell down to #5 once Gio gets back.

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#28 beloch
November 08 2013, 09:19PM
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With Monahan and Colborne both sticking, Horak probably doesn't have much chance of playing center for the big team any time soon. The Flames just traded an AHL forward for a possibly top four, but more likely bottom pairing defender who is signed for $3.5M for 3 more years. Aside from the ugly contract, it's a clear win for the Flames. If he doesn't step up and play well on the second paring though, this is going to be remembered as a bad trade.

Roy is older, smaller and experienced enough that he's probably close to his potential. Unfortunately, it appears to be in the same ballpark as MacBackup from the looks of his numbers. Brossoit is a big question mark this early in his career, and I'd take a question mark over an emerging mediocrity any day. Loss for the Flames.

Overall, the Flames won, but not very big. Smid is... Eck. He's an upgrade on the SOB trio of suck, but still... Yuck. I honestly hope they isolate him in a soundproof booth away from the rest of the team until the Flames' shrink can find a way to deprogram the oiler out of him. Whatever malaise has settled in over the bench in Edmonton, the Flames want no part of it!

The only way this trade makes sense for Edmonton is if they're about to unload one of their rookie centers for a stud defender. They were already so desperately short on defence that they were playing Smid as their top pairing shut-down defender! They simply have to bring a defender back before they're done. Fortunately, cap hit is not a concern since their kids are all overpaid already anyways.

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#29 Burnward
November 08 2013, 09:50PM
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It's going to become evident very quickly that we destroyed the Oilers in this trade.

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#30 Deaner_
November 10 2013, 01:04PM
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So does this mean the Erixon trade breaks down to Smid, Wotherspoon and Granlund for Erixon...?? Clear flames win.

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#31 BJ
November 08 2013, 05:48PM
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I've been waiting for these two teams to turn to one another for help... Flames must have soured on Brossoit a little

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#32 schevvy
November 08 2013, 05:52PM
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@RexLibris

Just wait Rex for the Eberle for Simmonds trade that will so happen :)

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#33 Gussey
November 08 2013, 06:12PM
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This trade is great. Not earth shattering but a good gritty dman in the prime of his career is a good return. I never liked horak and I don't think the organization was big on him anymore. I have some oiler fan buddies and they all love smid. Nothing better than beating the oilers.

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#34 Steve
November 08 2013, 06:20PM
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Is this the cap relief that were using to our advantage that feaster was referring to during the off season? If so, we just gave up 2 decent prospects to take advantage of it.... Not sure if that's what we had in mind....?

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#35 Gilaeth
November 08 2013, 06:38PM
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It's an interesting trade. I feel that Brossoit, what with Gillies and Ortio, was entirely expendable. The odds of Brossoit being better than one of those two seems a slim bet by anyone guessing here. Granted, goalie development seems a bit of a crap-shoot, as the Leland Irving's of the world are plentiful...

It looks like Feaster decided that after Brossoit's two-game shutout that his apparent value now was higher than his likely future value and used it to sweeten the deal to shed a redundant contract in Horak and pick up a defender that may help reduce the pain our backend has been causing us. I liked Horak too, but lets face it, he is imminently replaceable and well down the chart of our current prospects... He seemed a lot better last year given the dearth of legitimate hope we had.

To me, we win this trade in every possible scenario unless Brossoit eventually becomes a legitimate starting goaltender in the NHL. As long as he doesn't exceed replacement level/career backup, then we effectively won this trade by utilizing our salary cap space to help teams in need, while addressing a sore weakness of our team. Sort of sounds like what Feaster was getting at last summer.

Sure, we gave up prospects rather than getting them back, but we need to be able to field a hockey team if we want our prospects to develop at the NHL level. I feel that this may help us a bit in that.

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#36 the-wolf
November 08 2013, 06:51PM
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Oh yeah......and TRUCULENCE!!!!!

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#37 SmellOfVictory
November 08 2013, 09:43PM
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I'd be interested to see how Smid does when he's not being a fake top pairing dman. Yes, he got killed in Edmonton, but that's because he was their de facto #1 when he had no business being in that position. And it's not like they had a champion lineup of guys to pair with him.

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#38 coachedpotatoe
November 10 2013, 08:01AM
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Anyone in the nation going to his first practice to see who they pair him with? Feaster said the trade was made to take minutes away from the top two pairings.(create 3 sound pairings) Hopefully that means now and not until Gio gets back. Now if they would apply this same logic to the forwards and sit the guys who only play 5-8 minutes a game and bring up players from the farm that have earned another look or a first look.(Yes back to my favorite topic of rolling 4 lines)

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#39 MWflames
November 10 2013, 12:45PM
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Little late to the party, but here are my thoughts:

- Praise management for properly identifying areas of weakness. This team needed a stay at home defender badly. Smid will help spread the work load, and should be an improvement on the PK and in defending a lead type situations. Also, our top four was performing well with everyone healthy, but our abysmal depth was obvious when gio went down. Smid is much much better suited for top four when injuries occur than Butler.

- Praise management for identify areas of strength. Horak and Brossoit were redundant assets. We have lots of utility/depth guys like Horak coming through the ranks over the next few years and it would have been quite a crowded bottom 6. Also, everyone and their dogs are predicting Gillies to make a mark at the NHL level before Brossoit, so he probably would have been shoved down the depth chart barring major breakthroughs.

- Praise management for receiving value on the trade. Any who thinks Horak & Brossoit had much trade value is nuts. We got a quality depth defencemen (and I don't mean like an O'brien or Sarich type depth defencemen, Smid can play). We got a little lucky as Edm probably had a hard-on for their home grown fan favourite Brossoit, but from a VALUE perspective, this is a steal.

I don't even think this a knee-jerk reaction to Gio going down either. This is simply bolstering a defensive core, that desperatly needs it (with or without Gio), with expendable assets. Smid's contract is likely pretty respectable and I cannot see it hampering this team in any way. Will be decent trade bait in a year or two as well.

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#40 BurningSensation
November 08 2013, 06:21PM
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The easy way to look at this is the way Sam Pollock did. Who got the best player in the trade?

Calgary. Smid is an NHL defenseman. He may be bottom pair, or #4 on a weak blue like ours, but no matter how you cut it, the guy can play the game.

Edmonton recieved exactly zero NHL caliber players in the deal, with Horak being a fringe 3rd 4th liner, and Brossoit a few years away from challenging for even a backup role.

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#41 piscera.infada
November 08 2013, 07:35PM
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Chris wrote:

If Brossoit lives up to his potential, then in ten years, Smid will be the answer to a trivia question: who did the Oilers trade to get Laurent Brossoit?

The Flames win this one for the short term, but the Oilers for the long. Which is a bit odd for a Flames team that is allegedly in the first two years of a rebuild.

Not to take a big dump on the kid's head (because I really do like Brossoit), but in the words of one Kent Wilson: "goalies are voodoo". I hardly think you can look at this in the long term at all, let alone with any modicum of certainty.

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#42 Burnward
November 08 2013, 08:04PM
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Nice. Confused about what Edmonton's doing though, must be something else about to go down up north.

Always liked Smid's game. I imagine the change of scenery will do him well.

Does anyone here even trade with Edmonton in EA's NHL or EHM or anything?!?!?!? That's the craziest part about this for me.

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#43 coachedpotatoe
November 08 2013, 09:49PM
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What a great effort wasted because our 11/12 forwards can't play. McG wins his fight but what was the purpose of it? We had an offensive zone face off after an icing he gets into a needless fight allowing the AV's to rest and replace a tired guy with a new guy. Boom the Av's take of and score.

We cut the lead to one and McG gets on the ice (Why coach?) and he's sloppy in the D end and the Av's are up 3-1 and we lose 3-2. Would this team not be better off playing more kids? Backlund/Hudler /Cammi not a bad night? Monahan/Sven/Rhino played well and so did the other group with Stajan. You need to have 12 forwards who can play and that means McG and others need to paying for tickets.

At first I was not excited about the Smid deal but it is clear we can use a bigger body in the back end and could have 3 sound pairings on the back end.

Ramo was fine. It should be fun to watch him and Berra battle it out.

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#44 ed wailin'
November 08 2013, 11:06PM
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I like it. Smid will be stoked to escape the toxic sludge to the north I would imagine and has a rep as a hard worker.

Decent dollars for a decent 4-5 slot guy to bridge the next few rebuild years, after that you upgrade to a shinier newer model.

Patience and cap space is a beautiful thing. If we keep doing this for the next 2 years I'll be a happy man.

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#45 Renslip
November 09 2013, 01:28AM
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@coachedpotatoe

be less drunk; post response in wrong thread less times

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#46 HongKongHockeyFan
November 09 2013, 08:58AM
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I honestly do not not know what to think of this trade??? While the team who gets the best player typically wins the trade, I'm not 100% sure that applies in the salary cap world

Smid has always kind of impressed me but he is playing for the Oil, which is a crappy team (or poorly coached team). Admittedly from what I understand he signed a hometown discount but nonetheless I'm not sure he is worth 3.5 million for a 4/5/6th defensemen. Adding him to a line up that has SOB, who is also overpaid makes me wonder all he more!

At least the Flames did not bite on JML of the Leafs!

I have to admit I always liked Roman Horak because I think he has upside but obviously does not fit the new Brian Burke-led Flames mode, especially when you have potential/similar centres like Max Reinhart and Markus Granlund in the fold.

But it is clear Smid will upgrade Calgary's D temporarily

Anyways, I just wanna to say at the end of the day, didn't Backlund look great today (despite his penalty call)!!! I hope the Flames don't give up on this dude!

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#47 Baalzamon
November 09 2013, 10:47AM
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Hartley likes the Russell - Wideman pair, so that probably stays intact. I wonder if, when Giordano comes back, we're looking at something like this:

Giordano - Brodie

Russell - Wideman

Butler - Smid

Finally, all six defensemen will be players Hartley trusts for more than ten minutes per game.

And, as someone here mentioned, Smid may actually be trade deadline bait. Maybe. Teams are always looking for defensemen around that time..

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#48 loudogYYC
November 09 2013, 11:35PM
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I've totally warmed up to this deal. At first I was pissed cuz I like Horak and I didn't know much about Smid. The only think I don't like about Smid is the 3 years left at $3.5M, it makes me think of Sarich's last 3 years on his $3.6M/yr contract. Way too much money for such a limited player. I hope Smid turns out to be better than Sarich was.

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#49 oilers suck
November 08 2013, 05:39PM
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#boldmoves

Lol

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#50 Mangotanker
November 08 2013, 05:59PM
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Shrewd move by Feaster. Gets an NHL defenceman just entering his prime years whose also signed for the next number of years. And with the cap going up, 2.8 million becomes a whole cheaper in terms of cap percentage.

I liked Horak, but I don't think he ever really did enough during his time with the big club to warrant more offensive situations. If he werent headed to edm, I'd wish him all the best lol

I'm a fan of brossoit, but with gillies dominating in Providence and ortio also being in the system I guess brossoit simply became expendable.

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