Flames acquire Smid for Horak

Kent Wilson
November 08 2013 05:34PM

 

 

The first ever trade between the Flames and Oilers involved an entirely mediocre defender (Steve Staios!). That's pretty much true of the second ever trade between the clubs as well, except this time at least the dude isn't completely over the hill.

Word came down this evening that the Flames have moved Roman Horak and G Laurent Brossoit for Ladislav Smid and G Olivier Roy.

Smid is 27 years old and one of the guys attained for Chris Pronger when he demanded a trade out of Edmonton started their downward spiral. He is entirely uninspiring as an NHLer - he has limited offense (career high 15 points) and doesn't do anything in particular well. Smid has spent a lot of time taking on tough minutes for Edmonton the last few years, but he's also spent most of the that time getting beat up. In fact, part of the Oilers on-going issues could be ably summed up by saying "Smid is a top-4 defender on this team".

Which isn't to say Smid is completely useless. At 27 he's near the peak age for NHLers. He's big at 6'3, 209 pounds and he can hold his own in most physical confrontations. If the Flames plan is to sub him at the end of the rotation in favor of O'Brien, Billins, Breen or Smith, then that's probably a step up. Otherwise, meh.

I was never as high as Roman Horak as some others, but I'm surprised the club moved him along for an eminently replaceable defender. Hartley clearly wasn't anywhere near as enamoured with the former Ranger draft pick as Brent Sutter, so maybe the organization figured he was never going to crack the big club anyways. 

Brossoit and Roy are a swap of netminding prospects. The success of Jon Gillies probably made Brossoit seem expendable to the Flames, but even then I'm guessing this part of the deal was executed at the request of the Oilers (since Roy is an inferior prospect).

UPDATE - here is JW's take for Oilersnation.

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Former Nations Overlord. Current FN contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#1 Chris
November 08 2013, 07:11PM
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If Brossoit lives up to his potential, then in ten years, Smid will be the answer to a trivia question: who did the Oilers trade to get Laurent Brossoit?

The Flames win this one for the short term, but the Oilers for the long. Which is a bit odd for a Flames team that is allegedly in the first two years of a rebuild.

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#2 oilers suck
November 08 2013, 05:39PM
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#boldmoves

Lol

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#3 Walter White
November 08 2013, 07:28PM
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So since Burke arrived we have acquired;

9th overall pick, 27 year old, big d man

16 overall pick, 23 year old, big center

For just about nothing........decent start, Burke!!!

WW

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#4 Burnward
November 08 2013, 09:50PM
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It's going to become evident very quickly that we destroyed the Oilers in this trade.

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#5 BJ
November 09 2013, 10:16AM
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Butler and Smith to Philly for Meszaros and a 4thRnd 2014

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#6 schevvy
November 08 2013, 05:52PM
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@RexLibris

Just wait Rex for the Eberle for Simmonds trade that will so happen :)

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#7 Justin Azevedo
November 09 2013, 04:14PM
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can we please stop talking about tyler myers? he hasn't been good for 3 years.

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#8 BurningSensation
November 08 2013, 06:21PM
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The easy way to look at this is the way Sam Pollock did. Who got the best player in the trade?

Calgary. Smid is an NHL defenseman. He may be bottom pair, or #4 on a weak blue like ours, but no matter how you cut it, the guy can play the game.

Edmonton recieved exactly zero NHL caliber players in the deal, with Horak being a fringe 3rd 4th liner, and Brossoit a few years away from challenging for even a backup role.

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#9 coachedpotatoe
November 08 2013, 09:49PM
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What a great effort wasted because our 11/12 forwards can't play. McG wins his fight but what was the purpose of it? We had an offensive zone face off after an icing he gets into a needless fight allowing the AV's to rest and replace a tired guy with a new guy. Boom the Av's take of and score.

We cut the lead to one and McG gets on the ice (Why coach?) and he's sloppy in the D end and the Av's are up 3-1 and we lose 3-2. Would this team not be better off playing more kids? Backlund/Hudler /Cammi not a bad night? Monahan/Sven/Rhino played well and so did the other group with Stajan. You need to have 12 forwards who can play and that means McG and others need to paying for tickets.

At first I was not excited about the Smid deal but it is clear we can use a bigger body in the back end and could have 3 sound pairings on the back end.

Ramo was fine. It should be fun to watch him and Berra battle it out.

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#10 Jeff In Lethbridge
November 09 2013, 12:24AM
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what the heck am I supposed to do with my Horak Jersey now?????

Maybe I'll go ahead and put SMID on the brand new third Jersey i bought last week.

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#11 coachedpotatoe
November 09 2013, 04:51AM
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Renslip wrote:

be less drunk; post response in wrong thread less times

Not drunk, post game thread not up when I posted and opps like many others on this site I made a computer error, So very sorry.

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#12 coachedpotatoe
November 09 2013, 07:44AM
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How does the addition of Smid impact our defensive pairings? I suspect for most of us the initial response is move Butler away from TJ (based upon the Butler hate from earlier in the season and I admit I was part of that group)Butler has played his best hockey in two years playing with TJ and it has not seriously compromised TJ's game.When Butler and O'b played together they were both bad;Ob has played better with Smith or Billings but the problem is that grouping cannot play enough minutes to take the pressure off the Wides/ Russell or TJ/Butler pairing. So what to do with Smid? I would consider this for now; keep TJ/B together and break up the Russell/Wides pair and come up with this Wides/O'b and Russell/Smid. THis way you have three effective pairings.

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#13 Kevin R
November 09 2013, 12:43PM
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SeanCharles wrote:

Smid is not gonna be trade deadline bait.

If anyone will be that out of our d it will be Butler.

I don't know why everyone is so critical of this deal. Smid was playing for the Oilers, remember the team that has been bottom feeding for years now.

Smid is a top-4. He was probably used as a top-2 and he didn't have much support.

Give him a chance before you chastise his so swiftly. I still remember a lot of people not overly liking Russell that much at the start of the year either.

I like the top-5 options we have now. We needed a shutdown guy, we have a lot of puck movers so he should be a perfect fit.

We are a better team today. We needed a top-4 and I think in time people will see we got just that.

The Flames have been winning a lot of trades lately. This was Feaster using his cap space to his advantage to a desperate team who needed to change things up.

Not many teams could have taken Smid's salary back without anything coming back so this is a big win. Gio, Brodie, Russell, Wideman and Smid gives us respectable defensive depth. You can play those 5 for big minutes instead of over working 4 players every night.

Yeah I agree to some extent Smid wont be dangled but if we are clear sellers at the deadline (which is pretty much a given), a playoff team badly needing reliable 4-5 Dman would probably cough up a 1st rounder + a prospect for Smid at the deadline. Next year cap going up that 3.5 for 3(? or 2) more years has value. Smid is only 27 right now. No one is giving that up for Brossoit & Horak.

We needed a bigger 3-4-5 dman who is capable of clearing the front of the net badly. I was kind of hoping we could of extorted Myers out of Buffalo but the price would have been steep & anti productive for our rebuild. This deal is a way better fit the more I'm thinking about it. Never ever considered Smid because I never thought we'd do a deal with the Oilers again. Thing is, not many teams could eat the salary with nothing going back the way the Flames have positioned themselves. I'm liking this deal more & more & we may like it even more once we see Smid play his game now that he has veteran D support to play with. I cant believe the Oilers did this.

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#14 Gussey
November 08 2013, 06:12PM
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This trade is great. Not earth shattering but a good gritty dman in the prime of his career is a good return. I never liked horak and I don't think the organization was big on him anymore. I have some oiler fan buddies and they all love smid. Nothing better than beating the oilers.

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#15 Steve
November 08 2013, 06:20PM
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Is this the cap relief that were using to our advantage that feaster was referring to during the off season? If so, we just gave up 2 decent prospects to take advantage of it.... Not sure if that's what we had in mind....?

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#16 Jeff In Lethbridge
November 08 2013, 07:11PM
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Smell Burke all over this one. Feaster who???

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#17 beloch
November 08 2013, 09:19PM
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With Monahan and Colborne both sticking, Horak probably doesn't have much chance of playing center for the big team any time soon. The Flames just traded an AHL forward for a possibly top four, but more likely bottom pairing defender who is signed for $3.5M for 3 more years. Aside from the ugly contract, it's a clear win for the Flames. If he doesn't step up and play well on the second paring though, this is going to be remembered as a bad trade.

Roy is older, smaller and experienced enough that he's probably close to his potential. Unfortunately, it appears to be in the same ballpark as MacBackup from the looks of his numbers. Brossoit is a big question mark this early in his career, and I'd take a question mark over an emerging mediocrity any day. Loss for the Flames.

Overall, the Flames won, but not very big. Smid is... Eck. He's an upgrade on the SOB trio of suck, but still... Yuck. I honestly hope they isolate him in a soundproof booth away from the rest of the team until the Flames' shrink can find a way to deprogram the oiler out of him. Whatever malaise has settled in over the bench in Edmonton, the Flames want no part of it!

The only way this trade makes sense for Edmonton is if they're about to unload one of their rookie centers for a stud defender. They were already so desperately short on defence that they were playing Smid as their top pairing shut-down defender! They simply have to bring a defender back before they're done. Fortunately, cap hit is not a concern since their kids are all overpaid already anyways.

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#18 SmellOfVictory
November 08 2013, 09:43PM
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I'd be interested to see how Smid does when he's not being a fake top pairing dman. Yes, he got killed in Edmonton, but that's because he was their de facto #1 when he had no business being in that position. And it's not like they had a champion lineup of guys to pair with him.

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#19 Renslip
November 09 2013, 01:28AM
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@coachedpotatoe

be less drunk; post response in wrong thread less times

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#20 Steve
November 08 2013, 06:16PM
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I'm curious why we would give up brossoit? Definitely more upside then Roy....

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#21 the-wolf
November 08 2013, 06:51PM
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Oh yeah......and TRUCULENCE!!!!!

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#22 Victoria Flames Fan
November 08 2013, 08:46PM
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If that means Butler's gone, it's worth it!

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#23 STIXLER
November 09 2013, 06:54AM
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Burnward wrote:

Gio-Brodie Wideman-Smid

Pretty solid top four moving forward. Rebuiding through good trades and not tanking. Makes me very happy.

Kent Said "In fact, part of the Oilers on-going issues could be ably summed up by saying "Smid is a top-4 defender on this team".

I like Smid but Kent is kinda right

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#24 suba steve
November 09 2013, 06:57AM
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@Jeff In Lethbridge

Smid could easily be an attractive asset at the trade deadline as well. You may want to hold off on that jersey, or get the Velcro option for the name plate. If Feaster could swap him for a good prospect/picks at the deadline, that could be a nice short term flip for the organization. Smid will definitely have more value than Horak/Brossoit at the deadline.

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#25 SoCalFlamesFan
November 09 2013, 08:29AM
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Would this trade also be considered as an intervention or mercy trade for Smid?

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#26 everton fc
November 09 2013, 02:20PM
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Both teams win here. The Flames get a d-man they desperately need. Now. And can hold onto in a bottom pairing down the road, though Smid may indeed become a component to a bigger trade come deadline-time.

Oilers unload a goalie prospect who'll never play in the NHL regularly, and get Brossoit, who I think will. But that's me. They also get Horak, who can fill a need on their bottom two lines. Horak will get ice time in Edmonton, me thinks. And I think he'll do well.

Obviously, the rumours of the Oilers making a big deal with the Flyers seem more real, not to mention imminent. Is Meszaros is better than Smid? Different type of player, for sure, but will fit in better in Edmonton. They may also have their eyes on another defencemen, as well. The Oilers are weak on the back-end, and in their bottom two lines. So they are addressing that need. Or so it seems.

If the Oilers get Simmonds somehow - great move. Would love to see Simmonds in a Flames jersey. Could Yakupov be the bait going the other way??

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#27 schevvy
November 08 2013, 05:39PM
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Smid's a top 4 on the Flames right now with Gio hurt..

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#28 Colin.S
November 08 2013, 05:42PM
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Time to dump SoB and go with Smid along with either Butler or Smith on the third pairing once Giordano is back and healthy.

The trade is a salary dump for Oilers and not really going to affect the outcome of the season for the Flames.

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#30 BJ
November 08 2013, 05:48PM
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I've been waiting for these two teams to turn to one another for help... Flames must have soured on Brossoit a little

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#31 clyde
November 08 2013, 05:50PM
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O REALLY NOW wrote:

Me thinks Edmonton is offloading cap size for another deal, otherwise it doesn't really make all that sense to me as aren't they hurting on defense as it is???

I think Smid will turn out to be a solid pickup for the Flames. Plays with grit, something that will definitely make our blue line a little tougher. I also think he's a guy who will buy into Hartley's putting forth effort every game type mentality.

Does anyone know much about Roy?

Rumor of a Philly/Edm deal but only if Edm takes Mezeros so cap space is needed.

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#32 Mangotanker
November 08 2013, 05:59PM
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Shrewd move by Feaster. Gets an NHL defenceman just entering his prime years whose also signed for the next number of years. And with the cap going up, 2.8 million becomes a whole cheaper in terms of cap percentage.

I liked Horak, but I don't think he ever really did enough during his time with the big club to warrant more offensive situations. If he werent headed to edm, I'd wish him all the best lol

I'm a fan of brossoit, but with gillies dominating in Providence and ortio also being in the system I guess brossoit simply became expendable.

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#33 SeanCharles
November 08 2013, 06:14PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

BTW, Smid is signed for the next 4 years at about 2.8M/year.

Also, of note of course is the fact that Burke drafted Smid and was pretty high on him. Hell, he said the second best on-ice awareness after Scott Niedermayer (add that the sizable file that reads 'disregard anything GM's say about prospects soon after they draft them.'

Cap hit isn't 2.8 its closer to 3.5.

2.8 is what is remaining for this season.

Also wasn't Smid drafted when Burke was still in Vancouver...?

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#34 Spoils
November 08 2013, 06:29PM
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@oilers suck

apparently Smid was a cap move and the bold one is coming. We'll see - for now the boldest move you can try is this -

"SCHMEEEEEED"

try saying it.

schmeeeeeeed - use a lower comical tone.

He is a tough SOB and will battle hard for you.

congrats.

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#35 BJ
November 08 2013, 06:54PM
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Sucks to lose Horak... I think having one of those guys in the lineup is important... he reminded me of Marcus Nilson a little

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#36 Michael
November 08 2013, 06:56PM
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Decent depth signing for the Flames, the last few games without Gio have clearly shown that they need some NHL caliber 'depth' on the blue line. Smid is a decent defensive d man, good size with what looks to be a reasonable contract.

Didn't give up much, Horak didn't really show much more than replacement / 4th line talent and recent signing have bumped him down the depth chart, making him expendable. Edmonton got the better goalie prospect.

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#37 piscera.infada
November 08 2013, 07:35PM
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Chris wrote:

If Brossoit lives up to his potential, then in ten years, Smid will be the answer to a trivia question: who did the Oilers trade to get Laurent Brossoit?

The Flames win this one for the short term, but the Oilers for the long. Which is a bit odd for a Flames team that is allegedly in the first two years of a rebuild.

Not to take a big dump on the kid's head (because I really do like Brossoit), but in the words of one Kent Wilson: "goalies are voodoo". I hardly think you can look at this in the long term at all, let alone with any modicum of certainty.

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#38 coachedpotatoe
November 08 2013, 09:49PM
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What a great effort wasted because our 11/12 forwards can't play. McG wins his fight but what was the purpose of it? We had an offensive zone face off after an icing he gets into a needless fight allowing the AV's to rest and replace a tired guy with a new guy. Boom the Av's take of and score.

We cut the lead to one and McG gets on the ice (Why coach?) and he's sloppy in the D end and the Av's are up 3-1 and we lose 3-2. Would this team not be better off playing more kids? Backlund/Hudler /Cammi not a bad night? Monahan/Sven/Rhino played well and so did the other group with Stajan. You need to have 12 forwards who can play and that means McG and others need to paying for tickets.

At first I was not excited about the Smid deal but it is clear we can use a bigger body in the back end and could have 3 sound pairings on the back end.

Ramo was fine. It should be fun to watch him and Berra battle it out.

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#39 coachedpotatoe
November 08 2013, 09:50PM
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What a great effort wasted because our 11/12 forwards can't play. McG wins his fight but what was the purpose of it? We had an offensive zone face off after an icing he gets into a needless fight allowing the AV's to rest and replace a tired guy with a new guy. Boom the Av's take of and score.

We cut the lead to one and McG gets on the ice (Why coach?) and he's sloppy in the D end and the Av's are up 3-1 and we lose 3-2. Would this team not be better off playing more kids? Backlund/Hudler /Cammi not a bad night? Monahan/Sven/Rhino played well and so did the other group with Stajan. You need to have 12 forwards who can play and that means McG and others need to paying for tickets.

At first I was not excited about the Smid deal but it is clear we can use a bigger body in the back end and could have 3 sound pairings on the back end.

Ramo was fine. It should be fun to watch him and Berra battle it out.

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#40 ed wailin'
November 08 2013, 11:06PM
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I like it. Smid will be stoked to escape the toxic sludge to the north I would imagine and has a rep as a hard worker.

Decent dollars for a decent 4-5 slot guy to bridge the next few rebuild years, after that you upgrade to a shinier newer model.

Patience and cap space is a beautiful thing. If we keep doing this for the next 2 years I'll be a happy man.

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#41 Burnward
November 09 2013, 09:36AM
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@STIXLER

I respectfully disagree with Kent's assessment. I think he'll fit in very nicely. If I'm wrong, I will own that.

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#42 BJ
November 09 2013, 10:11AM
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maybe going forward further into the season we are looking at something like:

Brodie/Gio Russell/Wideman Smid/Billins SOB/Breen

It is somewhat improved... hopefully slot Sieloff or Wotherspoon in to replace SOB next year... getting better but the top4 still needs some improvement

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#43 Jeff Lebowski
November 09 2013, 11:13AM
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This deal is great for both Horak and Brossoit. I believe both have upside. Horak will play his best position and Brossoit becomes valued higher in EDMs system.

Essentially it shows the quality of Calgary's 'acquisition of young players' ability. Who wins or loses will take time to flesh out.

In podcast, Steve Dangle had a pro scout talk about asset management/evaluation. How does a team influence the value of their assets?

Feaster has built up the prospect pool and it has raised the precieved value amongst other GMs.

People talking about what Horak/Brossoit are/ will be don't know what they are talking about. Everything is different for them now and they may turn out great (but Ortio Gillies will be better). Hard to predict future. I do agree that right now Calgary has better prospects at those positions

My only issue is given EDM gave up an NHL player in the deal could CGY gotten a better return elsewhere?

Apparently they really like Smid's game. From reading ON it seems he was at his best when he wasn't relied on to move puck but play physical and battle. Sounds like a great fit for TJ Brodie but who knows?

What I do love is that Max, Knight, Backlund, Baertschi, Granlund, Ortio or Gillies weren't moved.

Arnold, Agostino, Jooris all have upside too.

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#44 Michael
November 09 2013, 11:30AM
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Unfortunately for Horak, Backlund has turned into the player that many people thought Horak might be, a defensive minded center that can drive the play, but with little scoring potential. Playing with Cammy, might be the Backlunds last chance in Calgary to show that he is really a to six forward. The coaches don't seem to like him, so he might well get packaged off in a trade for a player like ROR

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#45 beloch
November 10 2013, 03:51AM
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I watch the occasional Oilers game, so I'm accustomed to seeing the League's best and brightest utterly humiliate Smid pretty much every time he's out on the ice. As such, I was initially dismayed to see him acquired by the Flames. Some Oiler fans are pretty happy to write Smid off too, saying that he's been declining for years. However, the Oilers have such horrible depth in defense that Smid has been on their top pairing more often than not for years. He hasn't declined, he's been thrown out against tougher and tougher competition. He's faced the toughest combination of zone-starts and QoC of any oiler this season, and that's including Petry!

To sum up, the Flames just snatched one of the Oilers' top two defenders to play on their bottom pairing (once Gio is back), and all they had to give up were a pair of prospects who didn't look like they were likely to crack the Flames' roster any time soon. This is a minor win for the Flames, but if MacT doesn't use the cap-space he liberated to bring back a stud defender to replace Smid, this is a huge loss for the Oilers. It's nice to see Burke and Feaster pull off another heist!

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#46 bookofloob
November 08 2013, 05:41PM
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Gio's coming back eventually, and Russell has learned how to be an NHL defenseman, so when you look at it as Smid being the 5th D, this is a pretty good deal. The Flames backend is better, and while I loved Horak, he was never going to be a regular Flame, certainly not in a Bob Hartley era.

I'll miss that dude, but this is a good deal for Calgary in the end.

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#47 Cowtown 1989
November 08 2013, 05:43PM
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Good on Jay (Burkie?). One advantage of stockpiling prospects is to flip some for actual NHLers. Our D is small so this helps. Sad to see Brossoit go but the Oil must have seen him a ton right under their nose at Rexall. Good luck with that D Bryz.

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#49 O REALLY NOW
November 08 2013, 05:46PM
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Me thinks Edmonton is offloading cap size for another deal, otherwise it doesn't really make all that sense to me as aren't they hurting on defense as it is???

I think Smid will turn out to be a solid pickup for the Flames. Plays with grit, something that will definitely make our blue line a little tougher. I also think he's a guy who will buy into Hartley's putting forth effort every game type mentality.

Does anyone know much about Roy?

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#50 Gilaeth
November 08 2013, 06:38PM
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It's an interesting trade. I feel that Brossoit, what with Gillies and Ortio, was entirely expendable. The odds of Brossoit being better than one of those two seems a slim bet by anyone guessing here. Granted, goalie development seems a bit of a crap-shoot, as the Leland Irving's of the world are plentiful...

It looks like Feaster decided that after Brossoit's two-game shutout that his apparent value now was higher than his likely future value and used it to sweeten the deal to shed a redundant contract in Horak and pick up a defender that may help reduce the pain our backend has been causing us. I liked Horak too, but lets face it, he is imminently replaceable and well down the chart of our current prospects... He seemed a lot better last year given the dearth of legitimate hope we had.

To me, we win this trade in every possible scenario unless Brossoit eventually becomes a legitimate starting goaltender in the NHL. As long as he doesn't exceed replacement level/career backup, then we effectively won this trade by utilizing our salary cap space to help teams in need, while addressing a sore weakness of our team. Sort of sounds like what Feaster was getting at last summer.

Sure, we gave up prospects rather than getting them back, but we need to be able to field a hockey team if we want our prospects to develop at the NHL level. I feel that this may help us a bit in that.

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