Flames acquire Smid for Horak

Kent Wilson
November 08 2013 05:34PM

 

 

The first ever trade between the Flames and Oilers involved an entirely mediocre defender (Steve Staios!). That's pretty much true of the second ever trade between the clubs as well, except this time at least the dude isn't completely over the hill.

Word came down this evening that the Flames have moved Roman Horak and G Laurent Brossoit for Ladislav Smid and G Olivier Roy.

Smid is 27 years old and one of the guys attained for Chris Pronger when he demanded a trade out of Edmonton started their downward spiral. He is entirely uninspiring as an NHLer - he has limited offense (career high 15 points) and doesn't do anything in particular well. Smid has spent a lot of time taking on tough minutes for Edmonton the last few years, but he's also spent most of the that time getting beat up. In fact, part of the Oilers on-going issues could be ably summed up by saying "Smid is a top-4 defender on this team".

Which isn't to say Smid is completely useless. At 27 he's near the peak age for NHLers. He's big at 6'3, 209 pounds and he can hold his own in most physical confrontations. If the Flames plan is to sub him at the end of the rotation in favor of O'Brien, Billins, Breen or Smith, then that's probably a step up. Otherwise, meh.

I was never as high as Roman Horak as some others, but I'm surprised the club moved him along for an eminently replaceable defender. Hartley clearly wasn't anywhere near as enamoured with the former Ranger draft pick as Brent Sutter, so maybe the organization figured he was never going to crack the big club anyways. 

Brossoit and Roy are a swap of netminding prospects. The success of Jon Gillies probably made Brossoit seem expendable to the Flames, but even then I'm guessing this part of the deal was executed at the request of the Oilers (since Roy is an inferior prospect).

UPDATE - here is JW's take for Oilersnation.

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Former Nations Overlord. Current Fn contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#51 Parallex
November 08 2013, 07:09PM
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I like this trade a bunch. Smid was one of the few defenders on Edm that I have time for and this trade makes the Oilers worse (bonus). and Horak... well I said at the beginning of the year that he seemed tweenerish ala Dustin Boyd and I haven't seen anything to change that assessment. Goalie Prospect for Goalie prospect I'm guessing Brosseit is probably the better one but evs... goalies take forever before you know what you've got.

I like this deal a lot, hard not to considering the depth (or lack there of) of quality D.

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#52 Kevin R
November 08 2013, 07:14PM
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Horak couldn't crack the lineup this year, what chances would he have next year with Arnold, Gaudreau, Klimchuk & Porrier in the fold. May as well move him but he probably will surface & maybe even make it for a while in the bottom 6 of the Oilers. Brossoit had lots of potential but with Berra & Ramo not going anywhere soon & Ortio outplaying him, not surew good of a chance Brossoit would have had with us. He has better career opportunities with the Oilers. Ok deal for both teams. Smid will be harder to play against than Butler or Smith, he may even push Russell down to #5 once Gio gets back.

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#53 Burnward
November 08 2013, 08:04PM
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Nice. Confused about what Edmonton's doing though, must be something else about to go down up north.

Always liked Smid's game. I imagine the change of scenery will do him well.

Does anyone here even trade with Edmonton in EA's NHL or EHM or anything?!?!?!? That's the craziest part about this for me.

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#54 Victoria Flames Fan
November 08 2013, 08:45PM
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If that means Butler's gone, it's worth it!

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#55 beloch
November 08 2013, 10:30PM
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Additionally, we now know one of the stories of the next night the Flames play the Bruins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdrBRaSq1us

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#56 HongKongHockeyFan
November 09 2013, 08:58AM
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I honestly do not not know what to think of this trade??? While the team who gets the best player typically wins the trade, I'm not 100% sure that applies in the salary cap world

Smid has always kind of impressed me but he is playing for the Oil, which is a crappy team (or poorly coached team). Admittedly from what I understand he signed a hometown discount but nonetheless I'm not sure he is worth 3.5 million for a 4/5/6th defensemen. Adding him to a line up that has SOB, who is also overpaid makes me wonder all he more!

At least the Flames did not bite on JML of the Leafs!

I have to admit I always liked Roman Horak because I think he has upside but obviously does not fit the new Brian Burke-led Flames mode, especially when you have potential/similar centres like Max Reinhart and Markus Granlund in the fold.

But it is clear Smid will upgrade Calgary's D temporarily

Anyways, I just wanna to say at the end of the day, didn't Backlund look great today (despite his penalty call)!!! I hope the Flames don't give up on this dude!

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#57 SeanCharles
November 09 2013, 11:16AM
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Baalzamon wrote:

Hartley likes the Russell - Wideman pair, so that probably stays intact. I wonder if, when Giordano comes back, we're looking at something like this:

Giordano - Brodie

Russell - Wideman

Butler - Smid

Finally, all six defensemen will be players Hartley trusts for more than ten minutes per game.

And, as someone here mentioned, Smid may actually be trade deadline bait. Maybe. Teams are always looking for defensemen around that time..

Smid is not gonna be trade deadline bait.

If anyone will be that out of our d it will be Butler.

I don't know why everyone is so critical of this deal. Smid was playing for the Oilers, remember the team that has been bottom feeding for years now.

Smid is a top-4. He was probably used as a top-2 and he didn't have much support.

Give him a chance before you chastise his so swiftly. I still remember a lot of people not overly liking Russell that much at the start of the year either.

I like the top-5 options we have now. We needed a shutdown guy, we have a lot of puck movers so he should be a perfect fit.

We are a better team today. We needed a top-4 and I think in time people will see we got just that.

The Flames have been winning a lot of trades lately. This was Feaster using his cap space to his advantage to a desperate team who needed to change things up.

Not many teams could have taken Smid's salary back without anything coming back so this is a big win. Gio, Brodie, Russell, Wideman and Smid gives us respectable defensive depth. You can play those 5 for big minutes instead of over working 4 players every night.

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#58 Burnward
November 09 2013, 11:34AM
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@SeanCharles

Yep. It also allows us to not rush the kids into the line-up and let them develop at the pace they need to in the AHL.

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#59 Baalzamon
November 09 2013, 01:18PM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

I agree that this looks like a possible good use these guys when Gio gets back. What about now?

hmm. For now, I see Smid playing with Brodie, at least to start. Having large, physical Smid probably means Hartley is less inclined to keep O'Brien in. Maybe? I hope?

Anyway, I think Butler goes with Smith for the bottom pair. That puts a mobile dman who can't play with the puck (Butler) with a mobile dman who can't play without the puck (Smith). On the whole, I see that working better than putting Butler with another guy who can't handle the puck.

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#60 MangoTanker
November 09 2013, 03:30PM
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Michael wrote:

Unfortunately for Horak, Backlund has turned into the player that many people thought Horak might be, a defensive minded center that can drive the play, but with little scoring potential. Playing with Cammy, might be the Backlunds last chance in Calgary to show that he is really a to six forward. The coaches don't seem to like him, so he might well get packaged off in a trade for a player like ROR

I don't think ROR is leaving Colarado anytime soon, especially now that Roy is the head coach and Sakic is in charge of the Hockey OPs.

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#61 MWflames
November 10 2013, 12:45PM
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Little late to the party, but here are my thoughts:

- Praise management for properly identifying areas of weakness. This team needed a stay at home defender badly. Smid will help spread the work load, and should be an improvement on the PK and in defending a lead type situations. Also, our top four was performing well with everyone healthy, but our abysmal depth was obvious when gio went down. Smid is much much better suited for top four when injuries occur than Butler.

- Praise management for identify areas of strength. Horak and Brossoit were redundant assets. We have lots of utility/depth guys like Horak coming through the ranks over the next few years and it would have been quite a crowded bottom 6. Also, everyone and their dogs are predicting Gillies to make a mark at the NHL level before Brossoit, so he probably would have been shoved down the depth chart barring major breakthroughs.

- Praise management for receiving value on the trade. Any who thinks Horak & Brossoit had much trade value is nuts. We got a quality depth defencemen (and I don't mean like an O'brien or Sarich type depth defencemen, Smid can play). We got a little lucky as Edm probably had a hard-on for their home grown fan favourite Brossoit, but from a VALUE perspective, this is a steal.

I don't even think this a knee-jerk reaction to Gio going down either. This is simply bolstering a defensive core, that desperatly needs it (with or without Gio), with expendable assets. Smid's contract is likely pretty respectable and I cannot see it hampering this team in any way. Will be decent trade bait in a year or two as well.

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#62 Jeff In Lethbridge
November 10 2013, 06:40PM
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isnt the act of trading with the oilers akin to blasphame and colaborating with the enemy all rolled up in one?

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#63 Sapp
November 08 2013, 05:46PM
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Kent, I think we can safely put Smid ahead of Chris 'can I assist you with a goal against' Butler as well.

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#64 RexLibris
November 08 2013, 05:48PM
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Two Edmonton Calgary trades in my lifetime. Never thought I'd live to see one.

Oilers have signed Bryzgalov.

ugh...

On the other hand, the reporters are toasting the quotes they'll expect to get.

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#66 SeanCharles
November 08 2013, 06:19PM
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Actually I think Burke was in between Vancouver and Anaheim at the time Smid was drafted and was a TSN/CBC analyst...?

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#67 ChinookArch
November 08 2013, 06:20PM
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Interesting in that Calgary unloads a centre since there are plenty of centres (especially if you count Galliardi and Reinhardt).

I don't get this from an Oiler perspective, they needed 3 more NHL d-men, with Smid in the line up. They must be working a deal for at least another defensemen.

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#69 the-wolf
November 08 2013, 06:46PM
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Mind blowing pick up for the Flames? No, but it's hard to look at this from any angle other than as a win. Agree Smidgen is a 3rd pairing guy on a great team, but I also cut him slack given the almost zero back checking support from the Oilers forwards combined with mediocre goaltending. 2 mediocre prospects for a real, actual NHL D and another mediocre prospect back. Solid trade in Flames' favor.

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#70 Baalzamon
November 08 2013, 07:44PM
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@O REALLY NOW

"Does anyone know much about Roy?"

Well, let me put it this way: I'll be astonished if, one day, Roy becomes half the goalie Joey MacDonald is.

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#71 Burnward
November 08 2013, 08:34PM
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Gio-Brodie Wideman-Smid

Pretty solid top four moving forward. Rebuiding through good trades and not tanking. Makes me very happy.

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#72 piscera.infada
November 09 2013, 09:19AM
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HongKongHockeyFan wrote:

I honestly do not not know what to think of this trade??? While the team who gets the best player typically wins the trade, I'm not 100% sure that applies in the salary cap world

Smid has always kind of impressed me but he is playing for the Oil, which is a crappy team (or poorly coached team). Admittedly from what I understand he signed a hometown discount but nonetheless I'm not sure he is worth 3.5 million for a 4/5/6th defensemen. Adding him to a line up that has SOB, who is also overpaid makes me wonder all he more!

At least the Flames did not bite on JML of the Leafs!

I have to admit I always liked Roman Horak because I think he has upside but obviously does not fit the new Brian Burke-led Flames mode, especially when you have potential/similar centres like Max Reinhart and Markus Granlund in the fold.

But it is clear Smid will upgrade Calgary's D temporarily

Anyways, I just wanna to say at the end of the day, didn't Backlund look great today (despite his penalty call)!!! I hope the Flames don't give up on this dude!

In my view, Horak was redundant in the organization, as you point out. The players he would be fighting for a spot with are either young than him, or bring more to the table in my opinion.

I find it every interesting that this trade is seen as a harbinger of a greater deal for Edmonton, which is likely, but as I see it, it also means something for the Flames in that regard. Butler/SOB/Smith now become expendable (with the return of Gio, of course). Not saying that either of those are worth much, but parceled with something (ie, cap space), I think you could see a pretty cushy deal being worked out.

In regards to Smid's contract, I agree with you that he will be an over-payed bottom pairing defenseman. That said, I think the contract is actually not that bad. We have cap space, and should have cap space for the remaining four seasons. As this team slowly crescendos and contracts thusly get more expensive, the Smid contract will be coming of the books - that is if we don't even look at the possibility that he plays well, and becomes a movable asset down the road.

Smid could also give us a great bottom pairing guy to play alongside Seiloff and/or Wotherspoon, as those kids begin to show they are ready. I mean, serious question: would you rather have Butler/SOB-Seiloff/WSpoon, or Smid-Seiloff/WSpoon? I think the answer is fairly clear...

As far as Brossoit, I'm not too happy that he moves out, but I understand that he's probably the guy in this trade that makes all of the above possible. I just hope it doesn't come back to continually bite us in the ass down the road.

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#73 John
November 09 2013, 09:47AM
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I think Feaster basically made this trade because Giordano is out and that really hurts the Flames. Not that Smid can replace Gio but at least he's better at this point than our defense prospects. Too bad Brossoit didn't get a fair chance to show his stuff for the NHL club but I think he would have been eventually shuffled out aka like Leland Irving. Anyways, its obvious the Oilers need him more than we do, cause you'd have to be desperate to sign Brysgalov after his circus show in Philly.

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#74 piscera.infada
November 09 2013, 10:01AM
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@John

I would say with Brossoit, it was highly unlikely he would have developed properly in our system with the current logjam anyway. Ortio clearly beat him out in the AHL, so Brossoit ended up in the ECHL - which probably isn't the best place for him to ply his trade. With Ortio, Berra, Ramo, and that pesky McBackup still around, it's highly unlikely Brossoit would have been given the chance until next year, where he then has one year of backing up Ortio (likely) before Gilles comes in - and that likely the prospect you want to develop more than either of those guys.

That said, I wish we would have traded him outside the division, hell, out of the conference. But, he's not established enough at any level other than the WHL to really warrant worrying about it at this point, especially if he's going to be the reason a deal does, or doesn't get done.

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#75 Baalzamon
November 09 2013, 10:47AM
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Hartley likes the Russell - Wideman pair, so that probably stays intact. I wonder if, when Giordano comes back, we're looking at something like this:

Giordano - Brodie

Russell - Wideman

Butler - Smid

Finally, all six defensemen will be players Hartley trusts for more than ten minutes per game.

And, as someone here mentioned, Smid may actually be trade deadline bait. Maybe. Teams are always looking for defensemen around that time..

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#76 coachedpotatoe
November 09 2013, 11:05AM
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Baalzamon wrote:

Hartley likes the Russell - Wideman pair, so that probably stays intact. I wonder if, when Giordano comes back, we're looking at something like this:

Giordano - Brodie

Russell - Wideman

Butler - Smid

Finally, all six defensemen will be players Hartley trusts for more than ten minutes per game.

And, as someone here mentioned, Smid may actually be trade deadline bait. Maybe. Teams are always looking for defensemen around that time..

I agree that this looks like a possible good use these guys when Gio gets back. What about now?

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#77 beloch
November 09 2013, 06:06PM
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@everton fc

If the oilers sold Smid only to replace him with Meszaros, I weep for Edmonton. Meszaros got his head bashed in on the flyer's bottom pair last year worse than Smid got his bashed in on Edmonton's top pair! He might have a bit more offense than Smid, but Edmonton is not a team that should be trading defense for offense right now!

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#78 loudogYYC
November 09 2013, 11:35PM
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I've totally warmed up to this deal. At first I was pissed cuz I like Horak and I didn't know much about Smid. The only think I don't like about Smid is the 3 years left at $3.5M, it makes me think of Sarich's last 3 years on his $3.6M/yr contract. Way too much money for such a limited player. I hope Smid turns out to be better than Sarich was.

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#79 coachedpotatoe
November 10 2013, 08:01AM
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Anyone in the nation going to his first practice to see who they pair him with? Feaster said the trade was made to take minutes away from the top two pairings.(create 3 sound pairings) Hopefully that means now and not until Gio gets back. Now if they would apply this same logic to the forwards and sit the guys who only play 5-8 minutes a game and bring up players from the farm that have earned another look or a first look.(Yes back to my favorite topic of rolling 4 lines)

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#80 Deaner_
November 10 2013, 01:04PM
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So does this mean the Erixon trade breaks down to Smid, Wotherspoon and Granlund for Erixon...?? Clear flames win.

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#81 Baalzamon
November 10 2013, 01:32PM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

Anyone in the nation going to his first practice to see who they pair him with? Feaster said the trade was made to take minutes away from the top two pairings.(create 3 sound pairings) Hopefully that means now and not until Gio gets back. Now if they would apply this same logic to the forwards and sit the guys who only play 5-8 minutes a game and bring up players from the farm that have earned another look or a first look.(Yes back to my favorite topic of rolling 4 lines)

huh. Well, if they put Smid with, say, Derek Smith on the third pair, they could probably play about 15 per game. I say Smith because he can actually play with the puck, unlike O'Brien.

I still think they're probably thinking of playing Smid in Gio's spot until he comes back, but it's nice to know that they're not proclaiming that they just got the next great defenseman.

I'm still waiting for Feaster to preposterously over-sell Olivier Roy... they haven't really talked about expectations other than sending him to Alaska.

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#82 Kevin R
November 10 2013, 04:08PM
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loudogYYC wrote:

I've totally warmed up to this deal. At first I was pissed cuz I like Horak and I didn't know much about Smid. The only think I don't like about Smid is the 3 years left at $3.5M, it makes me think of Sarich's last 3 years on his $3.6M/yr contract. Way too much money for such a limited player. I hope Smid turns out to be better than Sarich was.

Smid is only 27 years old. Remember that so way younger than Sarich. He also didn't have the veteran dmen to play with to enable him to play within his strengths. I am looking forward to seeing him play & see how he does.

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#83 ChinookArch
November 10 2013, 05:25PM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

Anyone in the nation going to his first practice to see who they pair him with? Feaster said the trade was made to take minutes away from the top two pairings.(create 3 sound pairings) Hopefully that means now and not until Gio gets back. Now if they would apply this same logic to the forwards and sit the guys who only play 5-8 minutes a game and bring up players from the farm that have earned another look or a first look.(Yes back to my favorite topic of rolling 4 lines)

This. Yes!

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#84 Kevin R
November 10 2013, 09:37PM
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Jeff In Lethbridge wrote:

isnt the act of trading with the oilers akin to blasphame and colaborating with the enemy all rolled up in one?

These are dark days in Alberta. I think we may need to help each other to get out of the pit. Like Captain Jack Sparrow would say " Well mate, not trading with the enemy is really a guideline not a set rule" :-)

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