FGD: NEW BEGINNINGS

Byron Bader
December 12 2013 01:29PM

 

 

- stick tap to @Notbaertschi for grabbing this beauty.

The Flames are two days removed from an emotional game against the Bruins on Tuesday, that saw the return of Jarome Iginla to the Saddledome for the first time since he was traded last Spring. After the emotions settled after a raucous ovation to start things off, the Bruins eventually got their game going in the 3rd period, beating the Flames 2-1.

Tonight, hoping to get back into the win column, the Flames (11-15-4) host the Brothers Staal and the Hurricanes (13-13-6).  The game is the first in the post-Jay Feaster era, after he was let go of the Flames GM role this morning.  Brian Burke has taken over as Interim GM for now.  While the impact won’t be felt tonight, player movements will certainly ramp up in the coming months.

As for the match up tonight, the Flames and Hurricanes play in different conferences and have only played each other a handful of times. As a result, the rivalry is essentially non-existent. However, one thing to watch tonight is to see how Elias Lindholm performs for the Hurricanes. At the 2013 draft, Lindholm and Sean Monahan were both considered high-calibre prospects that would go early in the draft. In fact, both prospects were estimated to go between 5th  and 7th overall in the first round of the draft.  The two prospects were so close in their skill sets that the Flames fans were not sure who they would rather the Flames choose come draft day. 

The Hurricanes made the decision easy for the Flames by choosing Lindholm in the 5 spot, leaving Monahan to the Flames at the 6 spot.  As of today, Monahan’s leading the votes for who got the better prospect with strong two-way play and 15 points in 24 games. Lindholm, although looking more comfortable lately, had a slow start with the Canes and hasn’t looked nearly as good.  He has registered only 7 points in 20 games.  Nevertheless, with Monahan out with an injury, many eyes will be on the Hurricane’s prospect tonight to see what the Flames might have missed out on.

THE LINE-UPS

As always, thanks to our dudes at dailyfaceoff.com for the combos.  Here we go...

  • Cammalleri –Stajan –Stempniak

  • Galiardi –Backlund – D. Jones

  • Baertschi Glencross – Colborne – Hudler

  • B. Jones – Byron – McGrattan
  • Smid –Giordano

  • Russell – Brodie

  • Butler – O’Brien
  • Ramo

TJ Galiardi is going to get back in the line-up after being out a couple weeks with back problems.  It looks like he’ll line up with Backs and D.Jones while Lance Bouma will come out of the line-up. Also there’s a chance that Glen-X is going to be back in the line-up tonight as well.  As a result, Blair Jones, Paul Byron or most probably Sven Baertschi (I hope not) will come out and the lines will be completely different.  As such, the above will be irrelevant. We will adjust as we get more news this afternoon.

That D, I don’t hate it. The Russell – Brodie pairing has looked good for the most part.  Gio and Smid as the shutdown duo ain’t too shabby.  Butler and O’Brien rounding out the bottom pairing isn’t the worst thing I’ve ever seen either.  Once Wideman returns we'll really have a nice looking group.

Ramo appears to be getting the start tonight. 

Note: Alrighty then.  Looks like Sven's heading to Abby.  So there's that. Gonna guess Glencross is back in.

THE OPPONENTS

  • Skinner – E. Staal – Ruutu

  • Gerbe – J. Staal – Lindholm

  • Tlusty – Nash – Dwyer Semin

  • Westgarth – Dwyer  – Malholtra – Dvorak
  • Faulk – Sekera

  • Murphy – Hainsey
  • Gleason – Harrison
  • Ward

The Hurricanes top six, even without the always talented and rarely engaged Semin, who’s out with an injury, looks pretty good. That being said, the Staal brothers don’t appear to be their usual selves this year, offensively speaking. Jordan Staal, who came to Carolina to play with big brother Eric a few years ago, is on pace for 33 points this year.  That would be his worst total since his sophomore year.  Conversely, Eric Staal, usually good for 70-80 points, is on pace for 62 points. That would be his worst total of his entire NHL career. 

Note: I spoke too soon.  Looks like Semin will be in the line-up tonight after missing 12 games.

Carolina’s D looks pretty mediocre. Faulk and Murphy are young with significant upside and Sekera brings some good things.  Other than that it’s pretty rough. The Flames, while not having quite the offensively gifted forwards as the Canes, certainly appear to have them beat on the backend. 

 

SUM IT UP

The Flames are looking to get back on the winning side of things and continue their decent run of late, having won three of their last five games. Based on Burke's comments this morning, to get in his good books, the Flames would be best served to not give up a late lead tonight. The teams are relatively equal. They stand only six points apart. 

The Hurricanes might have more offensive weapons but the Flames have a superior defense core so it should be an even match up. The Flames and the Hurricanes have not met too many times but in the past two games between the two teams, both very close games, there were 23 goals scored in total. Hopefully we’re in for a night of old school river hockey!

Fb039371a1a1b706383cb72243cb4446
Byron has a background in psychology, economics and business and is a business researcher/data analyst by day. His love for hockey is as deep as the ocean is wide. Tell him your questions and let him into your heart. Twitter: @Baderader; Email: byron.bader@gmail.com
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#1 Graham
December 12 2013, 02:58PM
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Does this mean that Feaster is the best GM not in the NHL?

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#2 Kent Wilson
December 12 2013, 02:53PM
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Baertschi was playing some pretty good hockey recently. He and Hudler could have had 3 points each versus Boston.

Im scared Burke's already decided Baertschi doesn't play "Burke" (now, "Flames") hockey.

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#3 Spaceman Spiff
December 12 2013, 01:57PM
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Listen, from this Oiler-fan’s perspective … this is a bit of a scary move. We can all make fun of Burke and his bombastic, truculent style, but the guy’s won in this league and I think he knows how to build a team.

He made Vancouver a contender (his legacy is still there) and he won a Cup in Anaheim. The Leafs, although up-and-down a bit this year, turned a corner last year and it was largely with players he drafted or acquired. He drafted (and later traded for) Chris Pronger and pulled a bunch of complex strings to get the Sedin twins together. His career as a GM makes many others pale in comparison nowadays (which is probably a bit sad, but that’s not his fault). He’s not Cliff Fletcher, obviously, but he’s been pretty damn good at the job for a long time.

We all knew this was coming, of course – although who knew it would take this long? Feaster couldn’t bring himself to even utter the word “rebuild” until sometime last year and that’s obviously set the franchise back at least two years. The O’Reilly almost-signing was an almost-disaster of epic proportion. In the first round of the draft, he took a high school kid from a hockey country where high school hockey has ZERO upside (Canada). He dithered on Iginla for too long and got little in return. He got nothing for Kiprusoff, who probably could have helped two or three playoff teams last year.

And all of the above in the last 12 months!

No doubt, it will certainly be entertaining as Burkie squabbles with the Calgary media. But, from up here, you’ll hear no crowing from me. A spinoff of Burke’s Calgary takeover is that it further turns up the heat on Oilers management which hasn’t accomplished anything close to what Burke’s done in this league. As far as I’m concerned, MacT and the Oilers are now REALLY on the clock. I’m just hoping Burke doesn’t pick it up and hit them over the head with it.

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#4 clyde
December 12 2013, 02:07PM
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I thought Feaster did very poorly in way too many areas. Getting nothing at the deadline 2 years ago for guys like Jokinen when 1st rounders were being thrown around, jumping at a deal for Jbo way before the deadline when the Detroit package was better, the Iginla trade mix up, chasing ROR which could have had long term negative results and the Brad Richards chase to name a few.I had no faith in his ability to move the assets we have now for an acceptable haul when the trades this year will be so important. Hope Burke can do a good job in getting some assets.

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#5 MonsterPod
December 12 2013, 03:39PM
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Ahhh, this site is so wonderful. I've been wasting time on the NHL.com boards today being called all kinds of names by juveniles. It's so school yard and boring. Love the genuine discussions here.

My take? Feaster made us small and wimpy. I'm excited to watch BB turn this ship around.

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#6 AngryFlamesFan
December 12 2013, 02:18PM
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Soo ya if sven gets traded would anyone like to join me in an angry mob and force burke to quit? I'll supply pitchforks and torches!

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#7 Graham
December 12 2013, 02:57PM
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Wonder if Burke will revisit Monahan to the World Juniors?

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#8 TRAV
December 12 2013, 03:03PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Baertschi was playing some pretty good hockey recently. He and Hudler could have had 3 points each versus Boston.

Im scared Burke's already decided Baertschi doesn't play "Burke" (now, "Flames") hockey.

I have tons of respect for your opinion but not sure I agree on this one.

Ken Holland talked recently about the importance of developing players in the minors. (with a few exceptions) Based on his usage and play I think that sending Sven to the minors to develop and gain confidence makes sense. I would argue that Burke thinks that Sven is too important to have up here playing limited minutes and ruining his confidence/ development.

I also am leery of spending too much time worrying about things that may or may not happen.

Based on Hartley's usage/ Sven's play, if you were GM would you send him down?

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#9 negrilcowboy
December 12 2013, 01:50PM
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burkie apparently just purchased a 2 bedroom cardboard box beneath the flyover, complete with 2 shopping cart garage, and a collection of 3 aces 2013 wines. brian starting to dial in the gerry busey look.

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#10 kittensandcookies
December 12 2013, 01:40PM
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Prairie Chicken by-the-Sea wrote:

Is it just me or is Burke looking a little crazier than usual?

WTF? Did he stay at the Drop-In Centre last night??

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#11 Dave
December 12 2013, 02:24PM
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@AngryFlamesFan

Depends on the return of the trade.

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#12 ChinookArch
December 12 2013, 02:34PM
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@Spaceman Spiff

Burke deserves very little credit for Anaheim's cup, and you should look no further than Brian Murray for 90% of the credit. He left Vancouver in shambles and again credit for righting the ship goes to some nice moves by Nonis and a very good coach that they mistakenly fired in Vigneault. As for Toronto, last years playoff appearance was temporary voodoo. The Leafs are a terribly overrated team that will not make the playoffs.

I didn't like Feaster much, but I HATE Brian Burke. I'm really mad now. Year 1 of a rebuild and now thanks to Burke 7 Years of rebuilding to go.

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#13 TRAV
December 12 2013, 02:56PM
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AngryFlamesFan wrote:

Soo ya if sven gets traded would anyone like to join me in an angry mob and force burke to quit? I'll supply pitchforks and torches!

I hate absolute statements like this. If SVEN gets traded for an amazing return then pitchforks out is ridiculous. Seriously we are in a rebuild and all chips are on the table. Now if Sven gets traded for a bag of pucks (Orr) I'm with ya. I just never understand when people on here talk about, "if this guy ever gets traded I'm losing my mind". How bout we wait and evaluate the return... I actually think this was a mistake by Feaster. Glencross is the one untouchable on this team. Really why. If GM's call and ask about him then it's your job to listen, ask for the moon and hope you get it. To take a player off the table is absurd.

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#14 Prairie Chicken by-the-Sea
December 12 2013, 01:38PM
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Is it just me or is Burke looking a little crazier than usual?

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#15 Bilman
December 12 2013, 02:12PM
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Just heard Baertschi got sent down. I'm not overly upset with this as I think his confidence is in the toilet, and Troy Ward is a good development coach.

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#16 ?
December 12 2013, 03:26PM
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TRAV wrote:

I have tons of respect for your opinion but not sure I agree on this one.

Ken Holland talked recently about the importance of developing players in the minors. (with a few exceptions) Based on his usage and play I think that sending Sven to the minors to develop and gain confidence makes sense. I would argue that Burke thinks that Sven is too important to have up here playing limited minutes and ruining his confidence/ development.

I also am leery of spending too much time worrying about things that may or may not happen.

Based on Hartley's usage/ Sven's play, if you were GM would you send him down?

I really hope that you are right, but I agree with Kent. I personally believe that Burke doesn't like SVEN one bit, and with the stuff he said about him at the start of the year, its easy to see that. Some people will chalk that up to him wanting "more" out of Sven, but I just see a guy who screams "PLAY WITH SOME @$%@$N TESTOSTERONE". He seems to have his mind pretty much made up about Sven, and I believe that a reason Feaster and Weisbrod are currently unemployed is that sometime recent, there was an internal discussion about trading Sven Baertschi, with Feaster and JW against it, and Burke pushing for it. Ownership sided with Burke

The one thing I am now VERY skeptical about is the Flames future drafting and their handling of the draft picks themselves, particularly in the next 2 years, as its now 100% clear who's running the asylum. The Flames are probably gonna finish bottom-5 both this season and in 2015, and if Burke trades those picks for #PHANEUF or some other established NHLer, I will probably lose it. Not to mention the fact that he might be more inclined to ignore smaller, more skilled players to focus on bigger, stronger players.

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#17 Parallex
December 12 2013, 04:06PM
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@Kevin R

The problem is that of the three aspects you mentioned (Big, Strong, Talented) the most important one is talented and I wouldn't say with any degree of confidence that Burke would say the same and consequently if he had to choose between big or talented that he'd pick talented.

Size is nothing without the skill.

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#18 backburner
December 12 2013, 03:36PM
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I don't like sending Baertchi down to Abby either.. but Ward is a great coach, and it's not necessarily a bad thing, look what it did for Kadri..

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#19 Kevin R
December 12 2013, 03:51PM
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MonsterPod wrote:

Ahhh, this site is so wonderful. I've been wasting time on the NHL.com boards today being called all kinds of names by juveniles. It's so school yard and boring. Love the genuine discussions here.

My take? Feaster made us small and wimpy. I'm excited to watch BB turn this ship around.

Thumbs high Monster! The dastardly BB wants big, talented, skilled forwards to physically dominate hockey games. What a horrendous thing!!!! How on Earth can you be big, strong & talented? Anyone see Backlund take a run at Lucic & literally bounce off him. I don't think Lucic even realized he was hit. But who would want guys like Lucic on your team???

I have no problem with what Burke wants, getting what he wants, well that's a different matter.

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#20 mk
December 12 2013, 04:07PM
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@Kevin R

The problem isn't that people don't want big, tough players - its that they don't want player evaluations to be based on size/toughness alone.

One way to look at it: results matter. I'd rather have a smaller player if the results show that they produce more offense and play better defense than a big player with potential and grit who does not.

Chicago's 2 Cups in 5 years didn't care about the size of their impact players, and nor do I (if the results are good).

Of course Parallex beats me to it...

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#21 Matt
December 12 2013, 05:13PM
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One thing the Flames have that neither the Oilers nor the Maple Leafs have had through their rebuilds is a solid defensive group. Teams can do a lot worse than a top-4 of Giordano, Brodie, Wideman, and Smid.

If Burke can bring in a couple of legit top-six players and their young guys keep developing well (and they get some league-average goaltending!) the Flames could be back in the playoff picture sooner (a year or two) rather than later.

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#22 RexLibris
December 12 2013, 08:51PM
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Iginla has scored in Edmonton (2-0).

Some fans giving him the Bronx cheer.

Thought you'd all like to know he was keeping up with old habits.

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#23 ChinookArch
December 12 2013, 03:06PM
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Graham wrote:

Wonder if Burke will revisit Monahan to the World Juniors?

Who do you think made the decision to keep Monahan here in the first place? He is staying.

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#24 ChinookArch
December 12 2013, 04:18PM
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@Frank Miron

The same Joe Nieuwendyk that traded James Neal for Goligoski. God help us.

Loved him as a player, but as a GM he was no good!

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#25 everton fc
December 12 2013, 04:42PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Baertschi was playing some pretty good hockey recently. He and Hudler could have had 3 points each versus Boston.

Im scared Burke's already decided Baertschi doesn't play "Burke" (now, "Flames") hockey.

Possibly obvious. But I honestly believe the best thing for Sven Baertschi is a dose of Troy G. Ward. Look what Ward's done for B. Jones.

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#26 RexLibris
December 12 2013, 10:08PM
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Burke is an upgrade on Feaster. At least when Burke makes a trade it can be a coin toss as to whether the Flames win or lose the trade.

With Feaster sometimes they didn't even get the coin.

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#27 the-wolf
December 12 2013, 02:07PM
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When is it going to dawn on BBB and some others out there that Calgary doesn't have a "penchant" for blowing late leads because of something they're doing......

The team is not very good (not surprising given it's year 1 of a rebuild) and when the competition, especially teams like Chicago and Boston, turn it on, the Flames are simply no match.

Here's hoping desperately that the new GM is Paul Fenton and not Nieuwy (though I'll always love him as a player and will take him as Ast. GM) or that French dude from the Leafs.

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#28 danglesnipecelly
December 12 2013, 06:53PM
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I agree with those in favour of Sven to Abby... get him some big minutes, a healthy dose of Troy Ward, and a winning environment. Calgary is gonna be a mess the rest of this season... even more so with players being shipped out etc... get him out of the limelight, let him develop and hopefully have some fun along the way...

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#29 Keith Fredlund
December 12 2013, 06:54PM
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I'm ok with size. He's right. I'm tired of watching the flames get pushed of pucks constantly. Backlund bouncing off lucic is the perfect example of us needing to be bigger. Go Burke.

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#30 Colin.S
December 12 2013, 07:42PM
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nieuwendyk-not-interested-in-flames-gm-job/

Looks like it won't be Nieuwendyk, no surprise really, unless he knew his job was in jeopardy in Dallas why would he jump ship? After the horrendous Neal trade I thought his last few bigger trades have been alright. However why would he take the GM job in Calgary when you have Burke looming over you as the guy who wants to be GM. Always having to get any of your trades/signings be approved by him, and if he doesn't like it, it won't happen.

Like I said in a previous post, it's either gonna be an assistant type guy that Burke has known from his time in another Org, or another GM recently fired who needs a job. A young up and comer is going to want a GM position where he has the freedom to make his own decisions, he won't have that here. As well a good established GM isn't going to want to move where he reports to the guy who wants to be the actual GM.

I think it needs to be stated, the actual structure of the Flames org is a great model, having a President of Hockey Ops who can be a guiding hand or word of wisdom is a great idea, but they hired the absolute worst person. They hired the most hands on guy who always wants to be involved, IMO it's going to really hamper the new GM search.

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#31 ChinookArch
December 12 2013, 08:11PM
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EugeneV wrote:

WHY DOES EVERYONE SAY THIS?

WHY CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT BIG,SKILLED AND TRUCULENT IS BETTER THAN SMALL AND SKILLED, OR EVEN SMALL, SKILLED AND TRUCULENT.

BURKE DOES NOT WANT A TEAM FULL OF 20 FACE PUNCHERS, UNLESS THOSE FACE PUNCHERS ARE ALSO SKILLED PLAYERS!!!!!!!!

Stop with the absolute either ors.

Why not the best of both worlds.

Please stop yelling at everyone.

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#32 ChinookArch
December 12 2013, 08:28PM
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Today of all days and the truculent dancing bear scores.

Pretty nice work - full credit to McGrattan.

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#33 Lordmork
December 12 2013, 08:28PM
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McGratton scores? Burke is right! Grit and size and truculence!

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#34 Parallex
December 12 2013, 09:15PM
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@EugeneV

Because Burke never adds the part about skill... ever. He never says Big and Talented just Big.

Because he gave Colton Orr a huge amount of money for a goon, and Beauchemin and Komisarek far more then they were worth.

Because Burke assigns value to things that he should not, or at least more then is due.

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#35 Andy7190
December 12 2013, 09:57PM
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Just a thought on the goaltending battle so far, I can see the potential in both Berra and Ramo, but I think Ramo "fights for the play" a bit better at this point. He never gives up on the puck.

Kind of like a bigger Vernon that way. Whereas Berra commits too soon, I think. He goes to his knees to quickly, and can't adjust.

He has great potential, but so far, I like Ramo better.

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#36 the-wolf
December 12 2013, 03:02PM
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Graham wrote:

Does this mean that Feaster is the best GM not in the NHL?

Har! I love it.........but, no.

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#37 EugeneV
December 12 2013, 06:05PM
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Parallex wrote:

The problem is that of the three aspects you mentioned (Big, Strong, Talented) the most important one is talented and I wouldn't say with any degree of confidence that Burke would say the same and consequently if he had to choose between big or talented that he'd pick talented.

Size is nothing without the skill.

Power to weight ratio.

A small, weak, skiled player can only fill one role.

A small strong skilled player can fill many roles.

If 2 players were equal in skill, but one was 5'10 & 210lbs and one was 6'2 & 210 lbs they are still equal.

If 2 players were equal in skill, but one was 5'10 & 180lbs and one was 6'2 & 210 lbs they are NOT equal.

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#38 beloch
December 12 2013, 07:31PM
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Most NHL players spend a fair bit of time in the AHL before transitioning to the NHL, but Baertschi came up to the NHL direct from the WHL. To date, he's played just 32 AHL games in his career and is still just 21. The only flame who has played more than 5 games this season and is younger than Baertschi is Monahan. Baertschi's been averaging just 12:50 TOI/60, which simply isn't enough.

It's time to admit the short-cut isn't working out and get back on the main road. Namely, leave him in the AHL for a lengthy stretch until he's developed a taste for the bitter tears of his opponents. Bring him back only once he has some swagger. Fortunately, anyone playing with the Heat this season should develop swagger in a reasonably short period of time!

I apologize to Sven's fan-club, but I do hope he stays down for a solid stretch of 10 or more games, not just one or two. Once he starts chasing goalies in the AHL he's going to be a good call-up.

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#39 beloch
December 12 2013, 07:56PM
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In the first period intermission interview Burke said the #1 qualification for the new GM will be his commitment to size (no mention of truculence). Later in same interview, he said Gaudreau is very small but very skilled. Ruhroh.

You can't deny that size helps, but skill trumps all. For me, Gaudreau is a litmus test for Burke and the future GM. They will be failures in my eyes if they flip Gaudreau before he's gotten a solid look in the NHL. Gaudreau is a player who could thrive on a line with a couple of bigger, slower players.

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#40 MichaelD
December 12 2013, 08:27PM
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McGratton baby! haha, thats awesome

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#41 mattyc
December 12 2013, 09:13PM
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everton fc wrote:

Here's my take:

Baertschi.

Jankowski.

Jury's out on Sieloff. And Wotherspoon. Eric Roy may turn out to be one of Feaster's best finds.

you're saying the Baertschi pick is a negative? Who would you have rather they picked? To me it still seems like they made the right choice.

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#42 RexLibris
December 12 2013, 09:37PM
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@Parallex

I don't know that it will be that bad, but I do suspect that Backlund and/or Baertschi could be gone to address some other roster need.

More than anything I would guess that Burke will want to make moves that will improve the Flames quickly, without the more patient developmental process for which some may argue.

I suspect that the Flames will become relevant sooner rather than later. Whether they ever become more than that during his tenure is debatable, but this is just day one, there are so many decisions ahead that worrying too much over this or that possibility is just going to give you a headache - and you've already got Berra to do that for you.

;)

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#43 piscera.infada
December 12 2013, 01:47PM
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@kittensandcookies

He's trying to give Brent Burns a run for his money.

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#44 Lordmork
December 12 2013, 02:10PM
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Which isn't to say it's a bad move, because I think Hartley has destroyed Sven's confidence, but I also worry that it means Sven is going to be gone, and soon.

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#45 ?
December 12 2013, 03:16PM
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LOL at the people who thought Burke was just gonna come in, sit in the background, and let Feaster go about his business. This move was destined from the day negotiation talks with Burke started. The guy is power hungry/an alpha-male, depending on whether you like him or not, and he'll never be happy with being the second in command.

May the force be with the Flames, we will need it lol.

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#46 Craig
December 12 2013, 04:03PM
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Burke is going to ruin this franchise.

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#47 ?
December 12 2013, 05:24PM
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Matt wrote:

One thing the Flames have that neither the Oilers nor the Maple Leafs have had through their rebuilds is a solid defensive group. Teams can do a lot worse than a top-4 of Giordano, Brodie, Wideman, and Smid.

If Burke can bring in a couple of legit top-six players and their young guys keep developing well (and they get some league-average goaltending!) the Flames could be back in the playoff picture sooner (a year or two) rather than later.

But is that really where they want to be back? Sure Murray Edwards would probably like to see playoff hockey again, but I don't wanna see the team spend a ton on some vets just to get back to mediocrity again.

Now if Burke were bringing in young top 6 guys that will still be around and playing when Monahan is a few years older, that's a little different. :)

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#48 coachedpotatoe
December 12 2013, 08:29PM
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When I first heard the news I had to check and see if it was Aprils Fools day. Once I realized that it was not I was livid. It's not because I think Feaster has been great, heck there are plenty of reasons to fire him. However I do believe that he had a plan for the rebuild based upon both skill and size and i was on board for this. I do not like Burke and his belief that size and grit will win; this reminds me to much of the Sutter plan and we did that for year with a great goalie and one stud forward and spent more times missing the playoffs than in. Burke is bully who is overvalued. This might make me want to cheer for someone else. Yuk

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#49 RexLibris
December 12 2013, 09:13PM
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@Andy7190

I stopped counting at "lots".

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#50 wot96
December 12 2013, 09:17PM
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Good to see the Flames turning it around on that whole closing out teams in the third thing.

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