Breaking - Flames FInally Offer Sheet O'Reilly

Kent Wilson
February 28 2013 03:56PM

 

 

According to Darren Dreger on twitter.

We've covered why this is a good idea here.

More as this develops.

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Former Nations Overlord. Current FN contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#101 Franko J
February 28 2013, 05:59PM
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Bold approach by Feaster.

Desparate times mean desparate measures.

What a day!

Giving up potential picks in a deep draft.

Pretty risky. Like I said earlier there is no guarantee where Calgary will place in the 2013 draft, but I feel Flames management must feel Ryan O'Reilly is the type of sandpaper player this team is in dire need of maybe that is why the offer sheet was made.

By signing O'Reilly there might be the belief of signing Iginla and Kiprusoff, I'm playing devils advocate and saying that they are bigger trade bait. If I was Feaster I would want to recoup those picks, because after all Flames wouldn't be drafting until the 4th round.

Maybe Feaster and management have finally realized with this current group of players are not good enough to take it the next level. Especially down the middle. Maybe this will be the kickstart needed to change some things up with this team.

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#102 Baalzamon
February 28 2013, 06:01PM
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@?

That would be because he hasn't played this year. Last season, his numbers ranged from good to very good across the board.

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#103 beloch
February 28 2013, 06:03PM
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ROR is going to be *pricey* to re-sign in two years. With the cap going *down* this contract is going to hurt. Let's take a quick look at what ROR is worth to the Flames versus the Avs.

Flames:

The Flames top two centers are Backlund (who appears to be legitimately good, but is apparently made out of glass) and Matt freakin' Stajan. The former might be a legitimate first-line center, but probably not a very high-end one. While two (long) injuries don't necessarily prove he's made out of glass the concern is definitely there. Is Backlund going to be another Moss? The Flames need a quality #1C like Paris Hilton needs a boot to the head. Even if the Flames get crazy lucky and pick a legitimate #1C in this year's draft, that player will most likely be a few years away from being ready. If the Flames really want some lottery picks, banking it all on Backlund staying healthy and relying on Stajan as their #2C for the next few seasons offers them a very high probability of getting some.

Avs:

The Av's top two are probably Matt Duchene (22) and Stastny (27) even if you count RoR. If you have these two guys, do you really want to throw >10% of the salary cap at a guy who might wind up as your #3C? A team that is *not* able to spend to the cap obviously cannot afford to do this.

TL;DR
RoR's contract is going to be ugly unless he really turns out to be the shizzle. This is a gamble, but the Flames are so weak down the middle that it's an even bigger gamble for them to let this fish swim away and try their luck at the draft. The Av's on the other hand probably won't gamble on RoR when they have Duchene, Stastny and an chronically overdrawn bank account. I predict the Avs will take the picks and run, unless...

...unless they can find some other way to dump RoR without giving him up to a division rival. This, I'm fuzzy on. My understanding of NHL offer sheets is that, once signed, they are binding contracts that can only be nullified if the team being sheeted' matches the offer. i.e. If I'm correct, no other team can waltz in and say, "Hey, we'll pay that plus a buck", and Bogart the player. At this point, either the Flames get RoR or Colorado does. If I'm wrong, then the next few days could be legitimately interesting.

Emotional Spin:
Beyond offering the best odds of procuring the #1C this team so desperately needs, I feel this move might also close a schism in the fanbase. Personally, I feel this season is the closest the team has been to rock bottom in a while, and it's brevity makes it a good one to pick up a lottery pick in. While I can't bring myself to cheer against the Flames, I've felt conflicted when they win. If Feaster pulls this off things will get a lot simpler for us Flames fans again!

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#104 Baalzamon
February 28 2013, 06:04PM
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John Chambers wrote:

Although after thinking about it I really can't see why the Avs wouldn't match unless they were hell-bent on rebuilding through the draft.

Like, why wouldn't Stan Bowman offer Seabrook and his 1st rounder in exchange for ROR and say Jan Hejda. There are tons of teams who can match the value of Cgy's 1st and 3rd and who could use a top-2 C. The Islanders could offer up Niedereiter and a 1st, Winnipeg could offer up Scheifele and a 1st, Ottawa could put together a package.

Also, I thought there was only a 20% difference allowed between different years on a contract. How cam Calgary offer 3.2 then 6.8?

The salary for the 1st year is probably so much lower because the season is part-way finished. He's only being paid for the rest of the season rather than the whole season.

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#105 RexLibris
February 28 2013, 06:05PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

The only way a first and third is worth more to the Flames than O'Reilly down the road is if they finish in the lottery this year and the kid they could have picked becomes a Tavares or better level superstar.

I won't argue that adding O'Reilly makes the Flames a better team immediately. However, in the long run I am less enthusiastic.

At the very least this will allow the Flames to run O'Reilly, Cervenka, Backlund and Stajan down the middle, which is far and away a better option than, well, whatever it is they have now.

Also, I have to disagree that anything short of a Tavares-level player is equal compensation for O'Reilly. That seems like a bit of a stretch.

For the record, I would have offered up Gagner and a 2nd round pick for O'Reilly, so by no means am I saying that he is a bad player.

However, I see in this move, and the potential repercussions, some troubling signs for the organization. Namely, despite their stated desire to focus on the draft they have knowingly now forfeit their three first picks in what is widely considered to be a deep draft.

The cap hit for O'Reilly is $5 million, when the club has to re-sign Backlund, Cervenka, presumably Iginla, Brodie, Byron, and a host of AHL players and graduating prospects. The team is committed to $48 million out of a projected $64 million next season.

Spending $5 million on a 22 year old centre is hardly a bad move, but taken in concert with the contractual obligations and the fact that the team is at the maximum contract limit should this go through, it foreshadows some problems down the road.

All in all, a good move by Feaster, in light of the organization's refusal to consider other long-term options.

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#106 Q
February 28 2013, 06:12PM
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@Big Cap

Who cares what u think!

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#107 ?
February 28 2013, 06:12PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

That would be because he hasn't played this year. Last season, his numbers ranged from good to very good across the board.

But I can't see his advanced stats from last year either :(

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#108 Captain Ron
February 28 2013, 06:13PM
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Great job by Feaster and the rest of the Flames management for having the balls to do this and time it the way they did. After thinking about it I would be very surprised if we don't see O'Reilly in a Flames uniform soon. When Backlund comes back and with O'Reilly in the fold it will instantly make the team significantly better in the position they struggle at the most.

If the defence and goaltending hold up the possibility of being in the playoffs escalates a little from a pipe dream to maybe.

I can't express enough how much I like the possibility of this happening.

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#109 T&A4Flames
February 28 2013, 06:13PM
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@beloch

"...unless they can find some other way to dump RoR without giving him up to a division rival. This, I'm fuzzy on. My understanding of NHL offer sheets is that, once signed, they are binding contracts that can only be nullified if the team being sheeted' matches the offer. i.e. If I'm correct, no other team can waltz in and say, "Hey, we'll pay that plus a buck", and Bogart the player. At this point, either the Flames get RoR or Colorado does. If I'm wrong, then the next few days could be legitimately interesting."

That sounds about right. Although, I think CGY and COL can still come to an agreement on a trade. But I'm pretty sure only those 2 teams can create a transaction together.

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#110 RexLibris
February 28 2013, 06:15PM
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@Q

I'm more or less in agreement with Big Cap.

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#111 FireOnIce
February 28 2013, 06:16PM
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I don't know why everyone assumes that this means Iginla and Kipper are on the move. If anything, this solidifies Feaster & Co.'s belief that they're "one piece away" from a Cup.

ROR is the mythical 1C that Iginla has ALWAYS needed. I think, in this case, Iginla is not moving, this is for him and Kipper.

While this is exciting, I really hope it's just to screw over Colorado. Short term this is good, but long term it won't be good if the stars don't align. Plus, how will other Flames (like the notably pouty GlenX) when ROR is brought in (AN OUTSIDER!) for $6.5M?

They won't like it one bit.

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#112 ?
February 28 2013, 06:19PM
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@Real_ESPNLeBrun: I canvassed execs on 5 NHL teams. 4 believed Colorado would match, 1 figured Avs would take the picks...

Well that's not too encouraging, but at the end of the day, it only matters what 1 GM (and mostly 1 owner) thinks.

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#113 T&A4Flames
February 28 2013, 06:21PM
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RexLibris wrote:

I won't argue that adding O'Reilly makes the Flames a better team immediately. However, in the long run I am less enthusiastic.

At the very least this will allow the Flames to run O'Reilly, Cervenka, Backlund and Stajan down the middle, which is far and away a better option than, well, whatever it is they have now.

Also, I have to disagree that anything short of a Tavares-level player is equal compensation for O'Reilly. That seems like a bit of a stretch.

For the record, I would have offered up Gagner and a 2nd round pick for O'Reilly, so by no means am I saying that he is a bad player.

However, I see in this move, and the potential repercussions, some troubling signs for the organization. Namely, despite their stated desire to focus on the draft they have knowingly now forfeit their three first picks in what is widely considered to be a deep draft.

The cap hit for O'Reilly is $5 million, when the club has to re-sign Backlund, Cervenka, presumably Iginla, Brodie, Byron, and a host of AHL players and graduating prospects. The team is committed to $48 million out of a projected $64 million next season.

Spending $5 million on a 22 year old centre is hardly a bad move, but taken in concert with the contractual obligations and the fact that the team is at the maximum contract limit should this go through, it foreshadows some problems down the road.

All in all, a good move by Feaster, in light of the organization's refusal to consider other long-term options.

I disagree somewhat, Rex. Feaster has shown some creativity in his tenure here, this offer being a fine example. I'm sure he has a plan to cover the basis and I wouldn't be surprised if somehow the McGratton trade is involved.

I hate losing any draft picks but if ROR pans out then we've added another young top 6 player. That prolonges our need for prospects to develop. I also wouldn't be at all surprised to see CGY trade for a 1st or at least a 2nd. At the very latest I can see JBo moving at the draft.

If COL walks away we will have to move salary. It is just a matter of when and how.

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#114 Veggie Dog
February 28 2013, 06:23PM
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Finally. Given our ability to pick stinkers in nearly every draft, I don't care if this costs picks. Even if the draft is deep, there is no guarantee Feaster and company don't go off the rails and select an unknown/ under-aged long term project. I don't trust this management to select quality in the draft, so I am thrilled with the ROR move.

Now as long as he doesn't turn out to prefer being a winger................

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#115 Chris Fairfield
February 28 2013, 06:26PM
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Yesssssssssssssssss!!!!!

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#116 Chris
February 28 2013, 06:31PM
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From the Denver Post: "Former Avalanche executive Michel Goulet, who is now a scout with the Flames, played a role in the deal. Goulet is a Hockey Hall of Famer who spent the majority of his playing career with the Quebec Nordiques."

"Goulet was fired by Avs president Pierre Lacroix in 2009. Goulet was in line to succeed Francois Giguere, who was fired as Colorado's general manager earlier in 2009, but Lacroix instead hired current general manager Greg Sherman."

If you read between the lines, the Post thinks it's a case of revenge best served cold.

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#117 ChinookArch
February 28 2013, 06:36PM
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QUESTION: it appears that the Avs will not be able to trade ROR until after next years (2014) trade deadline. Is this true?

If this is true, then the Flames have done their very best in attempting to handcuff the AVs into accepting the deal. By matching the offer sheet, means the AVS keep A player they don't want for the entire season next year , plus accepting that fact that ROR's trade value is lowered. 2 reasons: his $6.5M salary in year 2 may sour a lot of potential suitors and therefore lowering ROR trade value for the 2015 season, plus they will be unable to use the trade deadline to extract a willing overpayment.

Excellent strategy, since the worst case scenario is the Avs match the offer and then limits there potential return for a player they would definatley want to unload.

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#118 backburner
February 28 2013, 06:47PM
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ChinookArch wrote:

QUESTION: it appears that the Avs will not be able to trade ROR until after next years (2014) trade deadline. Is this true?

If this is true, then the Flames have done their very best in attempting to handcuff the AVs into accepting the deal. By matching the offer sheet, means the AVS keep A player they don't want for the entire season next year , plus accepting that fact that ROR's trade value is lowered. 2 reasons: his $6.5M salary in year 2 may sour a lot of potential suitors and therefore lowering ROR trade value for the 2015 season, plus they will be unable to use the trade deadline to extract a willing overpayment.

Excellent strategy, since the worst case scenario is the Avs match the offer and then limits there potential return for a player they would definatley want to unload.

And... correct me if I'm wrong... but at the end of the two year contract, either the Flames or the Aves will have to offer him for at least 6.5 mill for the first year of the next contract, I believe..

It will be definitely interesting how this turns out, personally, I think the Aves should take the picks... but then again, they strike me as a very proud organization that would rather match then loose ROR to the Flames..

I can't see ROR wanting to play for the Aves next year..

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#119 Kypreos
February 28 2013, 07:15PM
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Great signing by the flames.

I cannot see Colorado walking away from a player like ROR. He is proven in this league and for a first and a third he would be a steal.

Here is for hoping though......

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#120 Danger
February 28 2013, 07:20PM
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I'm so happy about this, I could nearly forget all about this morning's dancing bear news.

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#121 backburner
February 28 2013, 07:30PM
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Kypreos wrote:

Great signing by the flames.

I cannot see Colorado walking away from a player like ROR. He is proven in this league and for a first and a third he would be a steal.

Here is for hoping though......

But at the same time, they won't want to qualify him for 6.5 mill, keep him around for a year, which he obviously doesn't want to be there, and it is a deep draft.

Aves were asking too much for ROR, now they have the option to pay him more?? No, he'll walk...

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#122 ALL THE WAY IN
February 28 2013, 07:30PM
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I bet the parade will start on bow trail and end somewhere in Inglewood lol. Love the design of this maneuver. A for effort.

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#123 Jai Kiran
February 28 2013, 07:41PM
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If this goes through, then I don't believe for a second that the wheeling-and-dealing is done. There are too many wingers: one of Stempniak, Glencross or Cammaleri is on the move. These are quality players playing well right now: there will be a real return for them, whether draft picks or young players.

And, Rex Libris: like Big Cap you believe the Flames with O'Reilly finish bottom 10?

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#124 FireOnIce
February 28 2013, 07:44PM
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Being reported that Avs matched the offer sheet.

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#125 Willi P
February 28 2013, 07:45PM
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The Avs match

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#126 beloch
February 28 2013, 07:49PM
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Well, color me surprised and disappointed. ROR would have been a great addition. At least Feaster showed some stones in the attempt.

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#127 Veggie Dog
February 28 2013, 07:49PM
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Sigh. I got too excited. Should have known better. :'(

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#128 Jai Kiran
February 28 2013, 07:51PM
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Well that's a letdown that the Avs matched. I got real excited for a few hours. I do believe the Flames have put the Avs in serious salary disorder come the end of next season. Not even close to as good as having a great centre in Flames colours next week, but it's something.

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#129 FireOnIce
February 28 2013, 07:53PM
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@Jai Kiran

Avs are right near the salary floor. They have plenty of room to pay for their young guys, the ownership is just cheap. Salary disorder is not an issue I don't think.

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#130 Subversive
February 28 2013, 07:54PM
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Nice that they did it. Kind of lame that they made it so easy to match. If you're going to do this, I think you need to make an offer that you don't think Colorado will match. 2 years is easy to match.

Another Brad Richards "we tried really hard" smoke screen?

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#131 Jai Kiran
February 28 2013, 07:58PM
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@FireOnIce:

You're right, but that cheap owner is going to have to pay O'Reilly 6.8 mill and pay Duchene and Landeskog and Stastny (who's gotta be trade bait right now)...

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#132 MC Hockey
February 28 2013, 08:47PM
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Scary Gary wrote:

That's what I had heard due to the Olympics pushing back the deadline but I may be wrong. Trying to find clarification.

I guess next year's trade deadline could be late Feb as Avs matching offer already indicates.

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#133 SadFlamesFan
February 28 2013, 09:06PM
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A completely stupid move by the Flames. It reeks of desperation on the part of the team and only serves to piss off every other GM in the league except in Phili. Unbelievable!!! The Flames ship is taking on water damned fast.

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#134 MC Hockey
February 28 2013, 09:09PM
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FireOnIce wrote:

Avs are right near the salary floor. They have plenty of room to pay for their young guys, the ownership is just cheap. Salary disorder is not an issue I don't think.

Does anyone really know if the Avs are a money-losing team? If they are really bleeding money, which I doubt, then they may refuse but obviously not the case

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#135 Fleury4pm
February 28 2013, 09:18PM
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Why does everyone want McKinnon..druin is twice the player

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#136 RKD
February 28 2013, 09:27PM
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Just heard Feaster during the first intermission, he first tried to acquire ROR via a trade but Colorado's asking price was so steep it apparently would have jeopardized the Flames future.

My guess is Colorado was looking for a first round pick, and then some combo of at least two with Baertschi, Backlund, Irving, Taylor, Brodie etc.

Are we shocked Colorado matched, no. LaCroix matched the offer sheet Joe Sakic signed with NYR back in 1999. Why would they let ROR go for nothing and especially to division rival. BTW offer sheets aren't necessarily the way to rebuild your team, keep developing your prospects and improve your scouting.

Yes, Ottwawa got Kyle Turris in a trade but really it's guys like Zibanejad and Silfverberg stepping up.

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#137 Q
February 28 2013, 09:41PM
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Implosion time! 3-0 leads are so helpful!

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#138 clYDE
February 28 2013, 09:43PM
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Q wrote:

Implosion time! 3-0 leads are so helpful!

Glad to see this foolishness end. As we are seeing, this is a lottery team.

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#139 Q
February 28 2013, 09:46PM
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@clYDE

Got that right!

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#140 clYDE
February 28 2013, 09:47PM
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I am so glad the Oil took RNH and not this beast we can't handle tonight.

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#141 Q
February 28 2013, 09:58PM
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Everyone's giving jay props for being so aggressive yet he's still signed no one significant! Barf! Up 3-0 and a loss! EVERY GAME MATTERS my A$$!

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#142 McRib
February 28 2013, 10:05PM
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Brutal game, lets just get a lottery pick already!!! We can't win this game we can't win anything!!! Best thing that could have happened to us was the Avs matching that offer sheet, time to rebuild!! Stop kidding yourselves. What a horrid effort tonight!! Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Thats the closest the Flames are getting to the Playoffs this season. Now time to go play Vancouver and get hammered again.

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#143 Q
February 28 2013, 10:12PM
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LOTTERY! LOTTERY! Time to take a break from this team til next October! HORRID HORRID TEAM! Re-hashing old crap players and zero heart!

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#144 McRib
February 28 2013, 10:15PM
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@Q

ZZEERROO HHHEEAARRTTT!!!!!

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#145 clYDE
February 28 2013, 10:15PM
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I hope the last 6 hours was enough to convince everyone including management that the flames will have to do some tearing down before building up. This team cannot compete and we still tried to mortgage a Jones/Mckinnon/Drouin for a 22 year old with one season of over 50 points but under 20 goals.

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#146 McRib
February 28 2013, 10:18PM
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@clYDE

I was a firm believer that we could just retool before the season started, but after the last 15+ games I no longer think so. Today hopefully taught the Flames how hard it is to get good young talent these days. Colorado showed us tonight that we just cannot complete with the young talent that is all over the league. We were outworked, outmatched, out skilled and out played tonight period!!

Everyone keeps saying the Flames deserve better results so far this season, but at the end of the day the one common denominator is good teams get bounces, old no effort teams do not.

Trade Iggy while his value is up please!!

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#147 Chris Fairfield
February 28 2013, 10:23PM
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Kicked in the nuts twice today, losing after having a 3-0 lead and the avaldouche matching the Flames offer sheet.

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#148 McRib
February 28 2013, 10:29PM
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@Chris Fairfield

The Flames have been kicking us in the nuts for three/four years!! Time to lower expectations at least it is bearable, the hope of maybe making the players every year is killing me.

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#149 Chris Fairfield
February 28 2013, 10:35PM
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I don't know how to understand this crap anymore. Two good pieces of news, offer sheet O'Reilly, a chance to immediately address their center ice woes and what happens, offer sheet matched, Calgary blows a lead and slip into complacency and inconsistency, yet again, nothing to show after starting the game like they actually gave a sh@#t. It was from being on a high to an extreme low.

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#150 clYDE
February 28 2013, 10:58PM
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Chris Fairfield wrote:

I don't know how to understand this crap anymore. Two good pieces of news, offer sheet O'Reilly, a chance to immediately address their center ice woes and what happens, offer sheet matched, Calgary blows a lead and slip into complacency and inconsistency, yet again, nothing to show after starting the game like they actually gave a sh@#t. It was from being on a high to an extreme low.

That is what you get from this group. They are consistently inconsistent.

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