POST GAME: Serious JuJu

Vintage Flame
February 03 2013 01:24AM

 

 

So here we go again.

Tonight the Flames were facing a team playing in their third game in four nights, and their back-up in net. Granted the Chicago Blackhawks are a far superior opponent than the Avalanche were, afterall, they are still one of the few to lose in regulation. However, they were coming off back to back shoot-out losses and the goal for Calgary was still the same; dominate a weary opponent, bide your time and capitalize on mistakes without giving up any.

Easy right?

The Rundown

Normally, after what happened in the Flames last outing, it would be a no-brainer to say the team needed to come out with some jump and take it to Hawks early. Not so in this case because there was a high probability that they would get burned by a team like Chicago.

Add to the fact that despite this only being Ray Emery's second start of the year, the Flames have historically had problems getting pucks past the tender, and you have the makings for a cautious, fairly low-event first period.

And that's exactly what we got. No scoring in the first, a powerplay for each team, and a pretty good tilt between Jackman and Bollig. Calgary out-shot Chicago 10-6 but the Hawks took the slight edge in scoring chances 4-3.

In the second period, the tempo started to pick up. The Hawks came out swinging first, dominating the Flames for the first five minutes or so by out-chancing Calgary 3-0. But the Flames weathered the early storm and the game stayed tied. For the rest of the period you could see Calgary start to put the game plan in motion. Moving their feet and subsequently moving the play down the ice, they started to generate some quality chances of their own. In fact, despite the score remaining in a scoreless tie at the end of forty, Calgary out-chanced the Hawks 6-5 while out-shooting them again 10-6.

At some point during the second intermission, someone mocked the hockey Gods so badly, that this game was only going to result in one way. Whether Joel Quenville had a voodoo doll stashed somewhere, Emery sacrificed a live chicken beneath the depths of the Saddledome, or if Patrick Kane beat someone up because they tried to offer their two cents... I don't know.

But the only way to describe what happened next was Bad JuJu!!

The third period began with a big push by the Flames, in fact, the first quarter of the period was all Calgary. Despite that it would be the Hawks to get on the board first, when Patrick "Mr. Cab Driver" Kane" would bat a bouncing puck at Kipper. Miikka got a piece of it with his pad as he came sliding across, but not enough as the puck would trickle into the net as Kipper hugged Shaw's stick.

To the Flames credit, they did not let the goal get them down, nor did it stem their play; if anything it amplified it.

After the goal by Kane, the Flames threw wave after wave after wave at the Hawks. They were relentless in their assaults and had Chicago reeling by the midpoint of the period. Only no one told Emery. With every wave and every assault, Emery seemed to make more and more unlikely saves. Even the announcers said, "Glencross is going to need therapy after this game!" And it was true. Curtis alone was stopped on several chances that were almost certain goals, but with Quenville's voodoo doll and the bad juju and all... Chicago kept their lead.

FINALLY!!! At 13:23 of the third, Dennis Wideman... with the patience of Job, the nerves of a sniper, and the forethought that they just couldn't put the puck past Emery.... Waited, waited and then put the puck in off Brent Seabrook's skate. Whatever, we'll take it! 1-1. It was a power play goal against a team that was 23 for 23 on the road with their PK, and it circumvented the voodoo sh...tuff, so it was all good.

Then the improbable and unimaginable happened. The high flying, goal scoring, Jay Bouwmeester joined the rush late and snapped a beauty past Emery with only 35 seconds left in regulation. Like money in the bank, 2 points were coming the Flames way; no way this one could go south right?

Yeah, well Quenville bent over and picked up his doll that he had tossed down the hall after Wideman cheated fate, and gave the little guy a jab. Bang, Marian Hossa ties the game with 2.8 seconds left on the ticker, and all Flames fans thought their tickers had just stopped.

The Flames did everything right in the third. They out-shot Chicago 24-6, 20... yes TWENTY of those shots were scoring chances (so were all 6 of the Hawks shots). They went 1 for 2 on the PP, yet were still tied and the teams were going to overtime.

The extra frame didn't help Chicago at all, but Emery did. The Flames dominated, and I mean Dominated the Hawks in OT, out-shooting them 3-1 and out-chancing them 6-0. Emery stopped all three and on 26 different occassions, the Hawks players blocked shots from Calgary. Despite a power play for the Flames, they were going to a shoot-out. It was a travesty, it was robbery, it was unfair. Whatever you wanna call it, that's what it was. Even CBC's Elliotte Friedman commented on twitter... 

The shoot-out was less exciting and quite frankly predictable. Even though it was nice to see Hudler and Cervenka join Tanguay as the trio, all three were unsuccessful, while ol' "Mr. Cab Driver" was able to tuck the puck between Kipper's pads for the win. Game over.

Why the Flames Lost...

Been over this... Picture says a thousand words!

Red Warrior

I'm going to go with a couple of guys tonight. Sharing the honour will be Mikael Backlund and Curtis Glencross.

In the first period, Calgary's top 2 lines had zero shots; Backs had three on his own. Once again he was flying tonight and making things happen, creating chances in the offensive zone.

His line continued to dominate in the second as Stempniak taking the lead in shots taken by Flames players.

In the third, it was the Curtis Glencross show, unfortunately minus an appearence from Scoreface. In the waves of assaults thrown at Emery, it was Glencross that should have benefitted the most. He hit the crossbar, tipped two more directly at the net and could have two more from each side of the net. All denied by Emery and the iron.

Sum it up

This is going to be a tough one for the boys to take. It's not going to be enough to say at least they took a point away from the Chicago Blackhawks.

They dominated, they deserved the win and they were denied. But hey, it is what it is and they have to move on from this.

I'm not going to take any pot-shots tonight or assign any blame. Kipper looked miles ahead of how he played two nights ago and the defense was pretty solid holding the Hawks to 6 shots each period and then shutting them down in OT.

Despite the loss, it was clearly the best game the Flames have played this season. Many fans commenting on just how entertaining the team looks. That's a plus isn't it?

And DID YOU SEE THAT CRAZY PASS CERVENKA MADE FROM BETWEEN HIS LEGS??? This guy has some sick skills with the puck.

They have two days to be pissed and then get over this one. Leave it in Calgary as they now embark on a three game road trip... they don't need the extra bagage.

Things get under way in Detroit on Tuesday. Game time is 5:30 on SNET-W

E42f2ca09dfb26046c3060ff46473aff
Vintage Flame is a Calgary based sports junkie that prefers to call hockey a "religion" rather than an addiction. He believes there are two types of hockey fans. Those who cheer for the Flames, and those who don't understand the sport yet. Follow Vintage_Flame on Twitter
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#1 Ryan Pike
February 03 2013, 01:48AM
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I like Roman Cervenka.

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#2 beloch
February 03 2013, 01:59AM
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While this game is the most egregious case, the Flames entire season to date, 1/8 of the full season, has been one long sequence of bad puck luck. They have consistently outplayed their opposition and only once have they been rewarded with 2 points. Over a long enough season this kind of luck should even out, but 1/8th of the season is gone and they're dead-last in the West. That's going to be very hard to recover from.

I thought it was frustrating to watch the uninspired performances of a mediocre Flames team last year, but this is even worse. This iteration of the Flames has played their hearts out and the end results are *worse*. No justice indeed!

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#3 Ryan Pike
February 03 2013, 02:01AM
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The Flames are shooting 7.9% collectively. That will not continue for the entire season.

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#4 Jonathan Happy
February 03 2013, 02:02AM
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Tough one to swallow, but they honestly couldn't have done much more to win this game. Ran into a hot goalie.

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#5 seve927
February 03 2013, 02:24AM
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beloch wrote:

While this game is the most egregious case, the Flames entire season to date, 1/8 of the full season, has been one long sequence of bad puck luck. They have consistently outplayed their opposition and only once have they been rewarded with 2 points. Over a long enough season this kind of luck should even out, but 1/8th of the season is gone and they're dead-last in the West. That's going to be very hard to recover from.

I thought it was frustrating to watch the uninspired performances of a mediocre Flames team last year, but this is even worse. This iteration of the Flames has played their hearts out and the end results are *worse*. No justice indeed!

I think a lot of people have a misconception about this short season. A bad start may not be desirable, but it is not a killer. If what now looks like a much worse Flames team last year could go on a hot streak like they did, what was it 10-3-4, while not playing particularly well, I just don't see why so many people think they can't climb out of a 1-3-2 hole.

Really, isn't is just reasonable to believe that playing like this will result in a lot of wins? Of course, they may just be playing over their heads right now, but if you just base your opinion on what we've seen so far a run of 7-1-2 or something seems not only plausible, but likely. Would we be out of it at 8-4-4? We're only 6 games in. It's still a miniscule sample.

"It is always darkest just before the dawn"

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#6 CDB
February 03 2013, 02:26AM
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Warning, this is long. This team has some exceptionally poor luck. Over the course of a regular 82 game season, a stretch like this would be concerning but not uncommon. Unfortunately this is a 48 game season, and could prove fatal to playoff hopes. However, all is not lost.

The flames are missing points from awful luck, as well as some exceptionally poor goaltending. The latter is more of an issue and will have worse consequences. Yes kipper was a lot better tonight (he provided NHL goaltending). Their awful luck has to rebound eventually. However points lost as a result of some terrible goaltending is less likely to correct itself

Part of me will not be horrified if averages dont work out.This is a team that looks to be moving in the right direction, finally (and it didn't take 3 first overall picks). For all the criticism, how do the hudler and cervenka signings look now? If the flames, which look considerably more formidable, and exciting, somehow continue to tank they are likely to receive a high pick in a strong draft class.

With a team that cannot continue to fail to convert the abundance of chances they are creating, with an older Sven, plus another strong prospect (hopefully) and Johnny hockey coming eventually, this is a team that could turn a corner sooner rather than later.

This corner could be turned even quicker with iggy and kipper trades (just saying). But regardless, while disheartened with the loss, i am more optimistic about the state of the current roster despite the result.

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#7 suba steve
February 03 2013, 07:26AM
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Great to see Kipper bounce back tonight because:

A. He's Kipper and we all love to see him stand on his head.

B. He did it against a team whose current goaltending makes them a possible trade partner (at least in a lot of fans minds).

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#8 cLYDE
February 03 2013, 08:24AM
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It has been good to see the team playing with heart but let's be serious here. The Flames have played the majority of their games at home against opponents coming off back to back or 3 in 4 situations. The last 2 games have been against the other team's back ups as well. As a result of this very favorable schedule the Flames sit in 30th. This is not a team that is going to bounce back. As the schedule starts to get tough, it will get worse. Moving Kipper and Iginla for a combination of good young players/prospects/high draft choices are the only option for a team trying to get better.

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#9 Willi P
February 03 2013, 08:50AM
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suba steve wrote:

Great to see Kipper bounce back tonight because:

A. He's Kipper and we all love to see him stand on his head.

B. He did it against a team whose current goaltending makes them a possible trade partner (at least in a lot of fans minds).

I thought Kipper played better last night but certainly no better than an average NHL tender. The Kipper from last year stops at least one of those two goals AND he still sucks in the shoot out.

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#10 Willi P
February 03 2013, 08:55AM
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cLYDE wrote:

It has been good to see the team playing with heart but let's be serious here. The Flames have played the majority of their games at home against opponents coming off back to back or 3 in 4 situations. The last 2 games have been against the other team's back ups as well. As a result of this very favorable schedule the Flames sit in 30th. This is not a team that is going to bounce back. As the schedule starts to get tough, it will get worse. Moving Kipper and Iginla for a combination of good young players/prospects/high draft choices are the only option for a team trying to get better.

The Flames have outplayed their opponent in just about every game. At some point this Karma turns around and they win games they deserve to win and a few they don't. I won't write them off quite yet as I see more try/effort to win in this team than I have in many years.

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#11 negrilcowboy
February 03 2013, 08:56AM
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yep, somebody pissed off the hockey gods. however, upon further reveiw, the hawks stars outperformed the flames stars. iggy and cammi were not elite, kippa was mortal. emery was outstanding , if iggy would have buried the breakaway chance the tide may have turned significantly. highly impressed with cheddar and huds, they have ragin stajan playing at an elevated level, leading to questions of butter's ability to communicate effectively with pro level players. chances are the flames would have been bag skated after last nights outcome. anyhow its a much more exciting style of play this year, so maybe last night was a pergetory moment.

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#12 ChinookArch
February 03 2013, 08:59AM
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@beloch

"I thought it was frustrating to watch the uninspired performances of a mediocre Flames team last year, but this is even worse. This iteration of the Flames has played their hearts out and the end results are *worse*. "

I don't agree that it's worse than last year. The last 3+ seasons of Flames hockey have been uninspirering, boring and frustrating. A team that was fostering a malaise among many of their own fans. Win or loose the 2013 Flames are a joy to watch, and from the 'fanatical' perspective are easier to gravitate toward. Everyone remembers the 2004 cup run, and may forget the .500 team that got them there, but that team was fun to watch. The 03/04 season was far more entertaining than the seasons between 1986 and 1990, even with all the winning. Maybe it's true familiarity does breed contempt. Fans just expected to win every game back then. (And yes, I was there.)

While no one likes to loose, fans love watching players pour their hearts out on the ice and earn their paychecks. The frustration this year comes from wishing their team were rewarded for their hard work.

Sorry, I didn't mean to rant.

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#13 Willi P
February 03 2013, 09:03AM
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ChinookArch wrote:

"I thought it was frustrating to watch the uninspired performances of a mediocre Flames team last year, but this is even worse. This iteration of the Flames has played their hearts out and the end results are *worse*. "

I don't agree that it's worse than last year. The last 3+ seasons of Flames hockey have been uninspirering, boring and frustrating. A team that was fostering a malaise among many of their own fans. Win or loose the 2013 Flames are a joy to watch, and from the 'fanatical' perspective are easier to gravitate toward. Everyone remembers the 2004 cup run, and may forget the .500 team that got them there, but that team was fun to watch. The 03/04 season was far more entertaining than the seasons between 1986 and 1990, even with all the winning. Maybe it's true familiarity does breed contempt. Fans just expected to win every game back then. (And yes, I was there.)

While no one likes to loose, fans love watching players pour their hearts out on the ice and earn their paychecks. The frustration this year comes from wishing their team were rewarded for their hard work.

Sorry, I didn't mean to rant.

+10

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#14 cLYDE
February 03 2013, 09:08AM
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negrilcowboy wrote:

yep, somebody pissed off the hockey gods. however, upon further reveiw, the hawks stars outperformed the flames stars. iggy and cammi were not elite, kippa was mortal. emery was outstanding , if iggy would have buried the breakaway chance the tide may have turned significantly. highly impressed with cheddar and huds, they have ragin stajan playing at an elevated level, leading to questions of butter's ability to communicate effectively with pro level players. chances are the flames would have been bag skated after last nights outcome. anyhow its a much more exciting style of play this year, so maybe last night was a pergetory moment.

That's the whole thing. Iggy is no longer elite yet we continue to build around him as well as give him elite minutes. Moving Kipper and Iggy for the future is what is needed but doesn't seem to be on the agenda.

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#15 cLYDE
February 03 2013, 09:17AM
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Imagine if we had moved Iggy and Kipper 2-3 years ago. Add 3-5 of the following players with what we have and the young prospects they would have got us. (I say up to 5 because we would have received 1st rounders to go with our high picks) 2010- Granlund/Skinner/Gormley/Seguin 2011 - Huberdeau/Hamilton/Baertschi/Couturier 2012 - Galchenyuk

I think we would be not that far away from a very good up and coming team. The Flames instead hold on to their aging stars while their value declines and the team declines.

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#16 negrilcowboy
February 03 2013, 09:33AM
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cLYDE wrote:

Imagine if we had moved Iggy and Kipper 2-3 years ago. Add 3-5 of the following players with what we have and the young prospects they would have got us. (I say up to 5 because we would have received 1st rounders to go with our high picks) 2010- Granlund/Skinner/Gormley/Seguin 2011 - Huberdeau/Hamilton/Baertschi/Couturier 2012 - Galchenyuk

I think we would be not that far away from a very good up and coming team. The Flames instead hold on to their aging stars while their value declines and the team declines.

you are preachin to the choir, i have said it for years. blow the thing up. what i notice is iggy seems to think captain means coach. he and hartley appeared to be in a confab, chit the hnic clowns picked up on it, but then said its 2 guys wanting to win. name one nhl personnell that wants to lose. personally, i think iggy isnt a leader, just the highest paid aka sundin.

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#17 Primo
February 03 2013, 09:51AM
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Plain and simple the Flames don't have the individual player skill/scoring touch to finish. They continue to make back-up goaltenders first stars as they have done the last couple of years. The effort is there but you need goals to win.

Hudler, Cervenka, Sven, Goodreau, Backlund, Granlun are first steps in correcting the problem. We need to have patience and this may be an ideal year to grab a Nathan McKinnon in the draft to compliment the above 'skills'list.

Move some of the againg vets for some prospects and perhaps more importantly toughness as the current Flames are easy to play against and scare no one.

If there is one past learning from our Darryl Sutter days is that we need to establish an identity of somekind before we can move forward.

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#18 seve927
February 03 2013, 09:58AM
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Primo wrote:

Plain and simple the Flames don't have the individual player skill/scoring touch to finish. They continue to make back-up goaltenders first stars as they have done the last couple of years. The effort is there but you need goals to win.

Hudler, Cervenka, Sven, Goodreau, Backlund, Granlun are first steps in correcting the problem. We need to have patience and this may be an ideal year to grab a Nathan McKinnon in the draft to compliment the above 'skills'list.

Move some of the againg vets for some prospects and perhaps more importantly toughness as the current Flames are easy to play against and scare no one.

If there is one past learning from our Darryl Sutter days is that we need to establish an identity of somekind before we can move forward.

So go for MacKinnon. And establish an identity. So that identity would be do whatever it takes to lose?

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#19 backburner
February 03 2013, 10:05AM
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You can put it in the loose column.

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#20 Alt
February 03 2013, 10:19AM
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Well said VF.Bad JUJU it is!Hope they find a way too push through it.Hudler Baclund,Glencross,Servenka have all been playing some exciting hockey,and definetely are fun to watch.

To all those who said Hudler was overatrd and overpaid,What say thee now.

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#21 negrilcowboy
February 03 2013, 10:21AM
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hows iggy to the blues for rattie,dagostini, and a first. send butler the other way if need be. send kippa washington's way for some of the wealth of youthful forwards. the short sprint to the playoffs is becoming a marathon of sorts for the flames.

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#22 Kent Wilson
February 03 2013, 10:32AM
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@Primo

Plain and simple the Flames don't have the individual player skill/scoring touch to finish.

Calgary can't seem to score through the early going, but this isn't true. Alex Tanguay sports one of the highest career SH% in the league. Glencross and Hudler were league leaders in that category last year. Roman Cervenka was a KHL scoring leader. Dennis Wideman is one of the better scoring defenders in the NHL. Jarome Iginla is an 11-time 30 goal scorer. Mike Cammalleri scored 11 goals in just 28 games for the team after his trade last year and has managed 20+ goals in 7 seasons.

The team has had it's issues over the last few years and its future is murky for a number of reasons...but the early low SH% of the club overall isn't indicative of its talent.

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#23 Baalzamon
February 03 2013, 10:34AM
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If the Flames play like this all year, it bodes well for the future. This is how a team without a threatening top end needs to play in order to be competitive: 4-line attack. Never quit. Great game to watch, but frustrating as hell when nothing went in. But the entertainment value? off the charts.

Counter that with last season. They were unbearable to watch, even when they won.

I know which iteration of the Flames I prefer. (so far, at least).

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#24 hairhelmet
February 03 2013, 10:42AM
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Hawks Fan here. Besides consoling y'all for losing a point that should never have had any chance of being lost, I went through the trouble of signing up here for one incredibly burning question: What was up with Kiprusoff's pants? It seemed that they were untied and flapping open like your uncle's pants after Boxing Day dinner. Was he just wanting someone to ring the doorbell?

Consolation: Ugh. We mostly got no joy out of those 2 points. On the other hand, we have been dreaming of Iginla for a few years now. Will trade you any player whose name starts with "Emer". See how good he is? See?

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#25 @Gingras34
February 03 2013, 10:46AM
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cLYDE wrote:

Imagine if we had moved Iggy and Kipper 2-3 years ago. Add 3-5 of the following players with what we have and the young prospects they would have got us. (I say up to 5 because we would have received 1st rounders to go with our high picks) 2010- Granlund/Skinner/Gormley/Seguin 2011 - Huberdeau/Hamilton/Baertschi/Couturier 2012 - Galchenyuk

I think we would be not that far away from a very good up and coming team. The Flames instead hold on to their aging stars while their value declines and the team declines.

Wasting your breath. Tired of reading comments like this. This team isn't going to enter a rebuilding stage. Get over it. I know plenty of Oil fans who have said "enough is enough, it's time to win." I have no issue with this team being a competitive team every night, while injecting youth into the line up. Finishing 9th or 10th is better then 30th.

We have lots of prospects to look forward to and the Flames have done a great job in the past few years of putting more effort into the draft and finding talent.

1- Sven Baertschi 2- John Gaudreau 3- Markus Granlund 4- Mark Jankowski 5- Tyler Wotherspoon 6- Pat Sieloff 7- Jon Gillies

Just to name a few. Stop saying we need to trade Iggy and Kipper, and blow this team up. That isn't necessarily the answer. I really have no issue paying to go watch the Flames play and finish in 9th 10th or wherever. It's a sport. It's about entertainment, and it's about winning.

Stay the course, these games have been fun.

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#27 hairhelmet
February 03 2013, 10:57AM
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@Vintage Flame

Yes, I know. I was being facetious. For one, Emery wasn't even wanted by any other NHL team when we picked him up last year (oddly enough we won him in a claw machine game in the lobby of an Ontario Denny's). And for another: as a Hawks fans I'd be thrilled to have Iginla as he'd likely convert us to strong Cup challengers, but as a hockey fan I'd hate to see him play anywhere else but Calgary.

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#28 schevvy
February 03 2013, 10:58AM
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Vintage Flame wrote:

There is absolutely no chance I would trade Iginla for Emery, and I don't think there is many people around here that would.

Even if there were, the Flames would never make that deal either.

I think he's sarcastic about the Emery part.

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#29 schevvy
February 03 2013, 10:59AM
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And he beat me to it. Damn haha

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#30 RKD
February 03 2013, 11:17AM
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The between the legs attempted pass by Cervenka was sick. He is skilled but I think because of his blood clot issue it still may take him a while to get back to NHL conditioning level.

Glencross was a beast so many chances I was screaming at my TV at how the Flames could not buy a goal. Backlund had some great chances too.

Somehow Cammy and Iggy have got to get it going, we would have more than one win if we had two lines scoring.

Clyde, Murray Edwards and Jarome are very good friends off the ice. Probably conflict of interest, but being buds with Jarome probably means he isn't getting moved unless he asks for a trade or signs elsewhere in the summer. Edwards and the rest of the brass are still in the win now mode and a very slow transition to developing younger players.

Kipper is the more interesting story, next season he's only going to make 1.5 million which is very attractive to some teams who are dying for a solid goalie-Toronto, Philadelphia, etc. I think Cammy and Kipper would more likely be moved before Jarome would be.

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#31 seve927
February 03 2013, 11:30AM
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@cLYDE

cLYDE, your post from the FGD thread:

"After a very very favorable schedule to start, the Flames are done. No one can actually think any differently. Please start looking at making the deals needed to move this franchise forward."

I had to look a little deeper, because I couldn't figure out what you were talking about. Now I see. The combined records of the Flames opposition is 26-9-7. That is not including their records against the Flames. Very, VERY favourable schedule indeed. Should have been automatic points.

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#32 jason knapp
February 03 2013, 11:40AM
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I am so sick of trade JI crap he is a flame forever and if you got a problem with that stop watchin. He is one of the best players all time and all I here is trade him did det trade stevey y no did col trade sakic no I don't understand what you half ass fans think he owes us.let him retire as the best flame ever whatever the outcome.and yes this team is way better than their record so far.

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#33 Kevin R
February 03 2013, 12:03PM
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I really have noticed a trend. Stajan was thrown to centre Iggy, didnt work. Joker was acquired to centre Iggy, didnt work. We sacrificed our secondary scoring & future to get our #1 line untracked. Our identity is a team with no distinguished #1 line. Suddenly, Cheddar & Hudler & Backlund are starting to provide a secondary scoring threat we havent seen around here for some time. Stajan is a player again(1st 6 games anyway) We have to change this rut. As good as Hartley is, its like a pro swimmer getting pulled under the currents of the Bow river in the spring. Personally, right now we could trade Iggy & Cammi & this team would provide the same results & entertainment as we have seen so far this year & really not miss these guys whose cap hits are $14mill. In fact, I have been an advocate of trading JBO & now that I have seen the Hartley game, JBO, GIO, Wideman & Brodie are perfect for his system. We just need a rock solid, net clearing stay at home nasty shutdown dman & groom the next nastiest mean shutdown dman in our system (Wotherspoon or Seiloff I see in the future). Not sure what Cammis value is but get a 1st & the best possible NHL kid we can get for Iggy. We have to keep Kipper until we know Ramo can come or we have someone capable of playing regularly.

Regardless of how we do in Feb, Feaster must move on from these players & with Sven & Johnny on the cusp, this thing can turn for us without the nuclear waste of a blowup. Right now, moving Iggy & Cammi does not even come close to constituting a blowup. In fact, if we stay healthy, our chances for playoffs would be the same. Sorry for the ramble but there are a lot of things I like what I have seen so far. Lets see if we feel this way March 1 when the heat the kitchen gets cranked up.

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#34 Willi P
February 03 2013, 12:03PM
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@Gingras34 wrote:

Wasting your breath. Tired of reading comments like this. This team isn't going to enter a rebuilding stage. Get over it. I know plenty of Oil fans who have said "enough is enough, it's time to win." I have no issue with this team being a competitive team every night, while injecting youth into the line up. Finishing 9th or 10th is better then 30th.

We have lots of prospects to look forward to and the Flames have done a great job in the past few years of putting more effort into the draft and finding talent.

1- Sven Baertschi 2- John Gaudreau 3- Markus Granlund 4- Mark Jankowski 5- Tyler Wotherspoon 6- Pat Sieloff 7- Jon Gillies

Just to name a few. Stop saying we need to trade Iggy and Kipper, and blow this team up. That isn't necessarily the answer. I really have no issue paying to go watch the Flames play and finish in 9th 10th or wherever. It's a sport. It's about entertainment, and it's about winning.

Stay the course, these games have been fun.

Totally agree.

Iginla moves ONLY if he wants to. I think he has earned the right to choose and will be fine with his choice either way.

I think Kipper would retire if he gets traded as well and he deserves to decide too.

So what, the Flames have with what they have now and their future prospects.

I am also tired of hearing about trading these two players. They have earned their right to choose and will (should) have their numbers retired. I am fine with both retiring as Flames instead of a few picks and prospects that MIGHT pan out.

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#35 Kevin R
February 03 2013, 12:16PM
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jason knapp wrote:

I am so sick of trade JI crap he is a flame forever and if you got a problem with that stop watchin. He is one of the best players all time and all I here is trade him did det trade stevey y no did col trade sakic no I don't understand what you half ass fans think he owes us.let him retire as the best flame ever whatever the outcome.and yes this team is way better than their record so far.

Sorry Jason, I love Iggy, have his jersey but I want to win a cup. Iggy has made more money than most on this planet from plying his trade in the City of Calgary. He & his family are set for life. I do not feel we owe him anything. I have paid big $$$ as a Season Ticket holder & have witnessed how Iggy has played these last few years. His passion is not the same as 7-8 years ago. Its time for change. If he's willing to sign for 4.0mill per & take his retirement contract provide 2nd-3rd line depth scoring & groom the kids, fine. But if we have to pay 6-7.0 mill a year for 4-5 years & watch what I have witnessed the last number of years, no thankyou. If we are in cap hell (remember the cap) because we are paying a guy 7.0mill to play a 3rd line & we cant sign up & coming young stars like Sven & Gaudreau & Brodie & Backlund & Cerevenka, then enjoy yourself & send me a postcard, as I will walk away from my tickets.

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#37 seve927
February 03 2013, 12:29PM
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@Kevin R

Hey Kevin, nice to hear some arguments backed up with decent logic. I don't know if I necessarily agree with everything - I think the key for this team to be successful (and no, the wins have not come yet), is having three lines that can score. You'll never have all three scoring, but you work from the premise that you can have two lines scoring at any time. Cammy and Iginla haven't scored yet, but they will and in bunches. They'll need to because the other lines won't always be scoring. But I do agree that cap space is going to be a problem and that 13M is not well spent. And yep, I love our top 4D and agree there's a good chance of not only good players coming up, but good fits in the lineup. And yep, Kipper get gradually usurped by Ramo. Good post.

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#38 jason knapp
February 03 2013, 01:13PM
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Agreed our defence I love don't look that good yet but it will. I still would never trade iggy because no matter what we do we will not win lottery. No matter what happens this season our team IS on the right track. A lot of you fans bitched about feaster,well apologize. I hope no I know with a few minor tweaks and a little luck we could get as high as sixth but it also could reverse and we get tenth,either way no Jones or nate.all we can do as fans is watch buy and attend,but I will say this flames are very fun to watch because no team NO team has worse luck!

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#39 suba steve
February 03 2013, 01:15PM
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And why exactly can we not afford to move Kipper before his full time replacement has arrived and proven himself worthy? Kipper won't play forever, and he will need to be replaced at some point soon, with or without a proven heir apparent. Would it have been terrible if Feaster had moved Kipper last year and we ended up drafting 5th instead of dealing down from 14th? I personally, would have loved that. Might also have given Iggy that extra nudge he needs to get him to accept the reality that this franchise will not be competing for a championship before he is retired, encouraging him to ask to be traded to a contender.

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#40 TheRealPoc
February 03 2013, 01:18PM
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For the love of Christ...we should have a mod here auto-nuking any post that contains "Jarome doesn't have the same passion anymore." Trying to think why else a veteran in his mid-30's continually destroys his teammates in preseason fitness testing, but I'm drawing blanks.

We already have to digest enough mindless rhetoric from the mainstream media that doesn't stay up late enough to watch us play, I don't think we to propagate awful, lazy narratives ourselves.

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#41 Alt
February 03 2013, 01:21PM
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Primo wrote:

Plain and simple the Flames don't have the individual player skill/scoring touch to finish. They continue to make back-up goaltenders first stars as they have done the last couple of years. The effort is there but you need goals to win.

Hudler, Cervenka, Sven, Goodreau, Backlund, Granlun are first steps in correcting the problem. We need to have patience and this may be an ideal year to grab a Nathan McKinnon in the draft to compliment the above 'skills'list.

Move some of the againg vets for some prospects and perhaps more importantly toughness as the current Flames are easy to play against and scare no one.

If there is one past learning from our Darryl Sutter days is that we need to establish an identity of somekind before we can move forward.

Could we possibly rent Iginla to Pittsburgh for there first and than resign him in July to a 3 years at 3.5 per

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#42 Captain Ron
February 03 2013, 01:45PM
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Kevin R wrote:

Sorry Jason, I love Iggy, have his jersey but I want to win a cup. Iggy has made more money than most on this planet from plying his trade in the City of Calgary. He & his family are set for life. I do not feel we owe him anything. I have paid big $$$ as a Season Ticket holder & have witnessed how Iggy has played these last few years. His passion is not the same as 7-8 years ago. Its time for change. If he's willing to sign for 4.0mill per & take his retirement contract provide 2nd-3rd line depth scoring & groom the kids, fine. But if we have to pay 6-7.0 mill a year for 4-5 years & watch what I have witnessed the last number of years, no thankyou. If we are in cap hell (remember the cap) because we are paying a guy 7.0mill to play a 3rd line & we cant sign up & coming young stars like Sven & Gaudreau & Brodie & Backlund & Cerevenka, then enjoy yourself & send me a postcard, as I will walk away from my tickets.

I agree with what you are saying on Iginla and a potential future contract with the Flames. I don't necessarily have much of a problem with him staying here as long as his contract price is cap friendly for the future of the team. I would have to think/hope that management and ownership know this too. Any contract talks regarding Iginla would certainly involve ownership and management in a combined effort. Whatever the result I don't think I will walk away from my tickets over it in protest though.

A big problem for Iginla personally playing elsewhere might be knowing that he would no longer be "the guy" on another team such as Pittsburg for example. I can imagine this may not be an easy transition for someone like him to comprehend. It is certain to be in his decision process at some point if given the opportunity to move on.

On another note I am thrilled to be watching some of the most entertaining hockey I have seen in the Dome in a long time. Last nights loss was heartbreaking but an entertaining affair none the less. There are some good things coming on the horizon.

R.I.P Brent Sutter era and don't ever come back with your boring snooze fests disguised as hockey games. I used to sometimes dread going to your games. Your hockey sucks badly on the entertainment scale.

Welcome Bob Hartley! Your hockey style is waaaaaay more fun to watch and your positive nature is infectious. I hope you are able to keep it up for a long time to come. Your communication skills are so obviously better than that group we were subjected to for the last 9 or 10 years.

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#43 Captain Ron
February 03 2013, 01:50PM
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@Kevin R

I posted this a couple of days ago but not sure if you were able to read it so here it is again.

I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I had heard some things about Iggy that I would share. The source was a buddy of mine who's job puts him shoulder to shoulder with sports and entertainment people from time to time. While at my place over the holidays he relayed to me some things he was told by one former Flame coach who eagerly bent his ear for a while over a couple of beers. Showed me a picture another buddy of his took while the two were talking to back it up. With regards to Iggy the ex coach did not think the Flames would win the cup with him on the team. He said that Iggy would often tell the team they were going to do things differently once he left the room. There were confrontations with him from time to time. He also said that he did not think the Flames would move Iginla and they would do what they could to try to keep him here for the rest of his career. My buddy did caution that he was also told by someone that night that what this particular ex coach said when he is having a couple of brew should be taken with a grain of salt. With regard to personal issues my buddy was also told by someone else that lockout life at home may not have been the best of times for Iginla and he was pretty happy to get back to playing again. Maybe there is something to that story. When looking at Iginla's career here he really hasn't had a lot of adversity to deal with that I can remember.

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#44 Jerconjake
February 03 2013, 01:51PM
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I'm an Oilers fan, but I have to say that based on the start the Flames have had, they're bound to turn this around. They're second in the league in shots per game at 33.8, and second in shots against per game as well, allowing only 25 per night. Over the long haul the team has issues due to the age of the core, but right now they are playing at a very high level. It's a hard thing for me to say, but if the Flames keep this up all year they're in the playoffs.

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#45 Captain Ron
February 03 2013, 02:04PM
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I know I am probably stating the obvious but Jiri Hudler is a much better hockey player than I had ever thought. He has been very well coached by the Wings. You could isolate this guy on camera and show it to others in a "this is how you should play" video. So much for the theory of him playing in the Datsuk or Zetterburg shadows. From my point of view he is totally legit on his own. Anyone who can come here and make Stajan look good has to have some good things going for him.

Cervenka looks like a keeper too. Given some time to adjust this guy may well turn into an above average player in this league.

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#46 Captain Ron
February 03 2013, 02:14PM
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Jerconjake wrote:

I'm an Oilers fan, but I have to say that based on the start the Flames have had, they're bound to turn this around. They're second in the league in shots per game at 33.8, and second in shots against per game as well, allowing only 25 per night. Over the long haul the team has issues due to the age of the core, but right now they are playing at a very high level. It's a hard thing for me to say, but if the Flames keep this up all year they're in the playoffs.

Thanks for stopping by. There are a few others around here who agree with you. I think right now the losses are teaching more than wins would have. This may be a good thing. Having the puck more than the opposition for a change won't hurt their cause either. Eventually the wins will come. I can also see them being a healthier team too in the long run with this style of play.

BTW your team looks better this year than it has in a while too.

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#47 internuncial
February 03 2013, 02:28PM
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I just tuned in for the third period and all I have to say is that I never saw that much good, exciting, fast, dangerous, all-around hockey goodness from the Flames in any game (any month?) the entire time Butter was coach. I know, I know, the Hawks were tired and all that, but the Flames have played some tired teams in the past 3 years and they NEVER dominated a period like that. I don't know what Hartley has changed, but, like, holy sh!t.

Sometime last night I stopped thinking about the draft lottery...

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#48 Kevin R
February 03 2013, 02:29PM
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TheRealPoc wrote:

For the love of Christ...we should have a mod here auto-nuking any post that contains "Jarome doesn't have the same passion anymore." Trying to think why else a veteran in his mid-30's continually destroys his teammates in preseason fitness testing, but I'm drawing blanks.

We already have to digest enough mindless rhetoric from the mainstream media that doesn't stay up late enough to watch us play, I don't think we to propagate awful, lazy narratives ourselves.

Get the goggles off buddy or put down that bong because I go to these games & the last 3 years I have never seen Iggy float at centre ice and fail to back check as much as I have seen him in the last 3 years. The odd thing is, if you read them at all, is that Kent & other writers on this site have statistics to prove Iggy isnt playing like the dominating player he used to be. Just because he is into the fitness side does not equate into passion on the ice. If you dont like what I have to say, I really could care less. If you prefer to bury your head in the sand, go fill your bucket.

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#49 Primo
February 03 2013, 02:35PM
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seve927 wrote:

So go for MacKinnon. And establish an identity. So that identity would be do whatever it takes to lose?

Play to lose and draft Mackinnon?? Not part of my DNA and clearly would not be professional conduct....BUT I watch the young top 5 superstar Oilers and can't help but think how bright the Oiler future looks. Did they play to lose and secure 1st overall draft picks?? hmmmm..I'll let you decide?

As a long time Flames fan I am getting tired of this boring act of relying on overpaid aging players and finishing middle of the pack, out of the playoffs and no chance of drafting decent prospects!

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#50 T&A4Flames
February 03 2013, 02:35PM
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Vintage Flame wrote:

The only problem with those analogies is that neither Colorado nor Detroit were in re-bilding situations when Sakic and Yzerman were entering the twilights of their careers.

The closest analogy to the Flames and JI would be the Leafs and Sundin.

I would LOVE to see Iggy retire as a Flame, I really would. But I think I'd like to see him come back to the team after a year or two elsewhere, where he had a legit shot at winning the Cup.

It's a win for the Flames because of the assets they could potentially get in return for him and it's a win for Iggy because after all he deserves a Cup.

Now, that being said, he also deserves the respect to allow him to rfetire wherever he wants. If it's in Calgary, then so be it.

Exactly how I feel.

Also with Stevey Y and Sakic, they had won their championships. I want to see Iggy get one. I just can't see it happening in CGY if he stays. Maybe in a couple years with some trade acquisitions maturing at that point.

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