Flames Fall to Vancouver: A few Steps Back

Kent Wilson
February 09 2013 11:11PM

Both the Flames and Canucks entered this game with winning streaks, but that ended with a thud for Calgary. With both teams missing a bug chunk of their second lines, this evening was about how the hopefuls like Schroeder and Street would perform as well as the battle between the top lines.

Advantage: Canucks.

The Rundown

The first period was relatively close, with the Canucks enjoying a marginal edge in territorial play and chances, but with the Flames being the only team to score when Lee Stempniak banged home a Blake Comeau rebound. The tide turned in the second, however, when Alex Burrows and Jordan Schroeder scored back-to-back markers in rapid succession. A Kevin Bieksa shot glanced off of Blair Jones later in the period, capping Vancouver's 3 goal period.

Vancouver added to their lead early in the second when Higgins fired home a shot from the high slot. After that it was mostly cruise time for the Canucks who were happy to dump the puck deep and trap in the neutral zone. Bob Harlety tried mixing up his lines, in part to get Jarome Iginla away from the Sedin trio, but it was all for naught. Jordan Schroeder added his second of the game off a big rebound with about 4 minutes left, capping the rout.

Why the Flames Lost

Because, for the first time this year, they were fundamentally outplayed for most of the evening. Calgary's scorers had a hard time generating consistent pressure at even strength and the Canucks were much more effective at getting and keeping the puck. Jarome Iginla generated a couple of chances in the slot, but continues to be snakebitten, which didn't help things. Poor Leland Irving made a couple of highlight reel saves in the first half of the contest, but was eventually overrun.

Final chacee count was 20-13 for Canucks.

Firestarter

Hard to choose a Flames star for this one. Let's go with Lee Stempniak, who added his team leading 5th goal and was at least occasionally dangerous throughout the night.

Sum it Up

Calgary had their first true stinker of the year, which was bound to happen eventually. Calgary's top line couldn't get much going against the Sedin twins and the lack of a guy like Backlund elsewhere in the roster was painfully obvious. Irving did everything he could to keep the team in it through the early going, but it wasn't enough.

39d8109299a9795cb3b41a4e9b49d501
Former Nations Overlord. Current Fn contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#1 cLYDE
February 09 2013, 11:22PM
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The first of many stinkers I believe. As someone who would like to see our aging core moved for a younger, new direction, I'm ok with tonight but the fan in me was hopeful this year could be different.

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#2 Bikeit
February 09 2013, 11:30PM
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Why do the flames wingers constantly try to bring it down the boards,only to get pinched off by the centre and even then if they did get by the de-men mopped them up. For god sakes glencross has two georgeous shot opportunities in the first and whoosh by the net. I gave up on this one early.

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#3 cLYDE
February 09 2013, 11:30PM
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I would love to see Iggy and Tanguay waive and see what numbers they could still put up with Tavares as their center. More importantly, I would love to see what the Isles would give to get Tavares these 2? I know it won't happen but that would be ideal.

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#4 FireOnIce
February 09 2013, 11:33PM
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Can't really tell if Irving is worth his salt, if the rest of the team doesn't do their job. Iginla, it's time to score man. Our leaders need to lead and our scorers need to score. The dressing room needs passion and some crazy yelling, perhaps some good bitch slapping, to get them going it seems.

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#5 Scary Gary
February 09 2013, 11:43PM
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FireOnIce wrote:

Can't really tell if Irving is worth his salt, if the rest of the team doesn't do their job. Iginla, it's time to score man. Our leaders need to lead and our scorers need to score. The dressing room needs passion and some crazy yelling, perhaps some good bitch slapping, to get them going it seems.

Canucks are 4-1-1 at home and have won five straigh, the flames have won two games on this road trip and mailed it in against a hot team.

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#6 Vintage Flame
February 09 2013, 11:45PM
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@FireOnIce

I don't think Hartley is going to give them a pep talk tonight.

Going to be some tough love dished out I would think.

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#7 Vintage Flame
February 09 2013, 11:46PM
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Can't hang tonight's loss on Irv. He played a hell of a game.

Same old story tonight when the Flames hung the back up out to dry. Too many faceless jersies skating out there tonight.

Except Brodie, he was good

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#8 Scary Gary
February 09 2013, 11:48PM
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Vintage Flame wrote:

Can't hang tonight's loss on Irv. He played a hell of a game.

Same old story tonight when the Flames hung the back up out to dry. Too many faceless jersies skating out there tonight.

Except Brodie, he was good

VF What sort of contract do you figure Brodie will get this off-season provided he keeps this up?

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#9 schevvy
February 09 2013, 11:52PM
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If you look at it in the big picture, I think most people would be happy getting 4 out of 6 points on the 3 game road trip. But man, tonight SUCKED. Anyone who thought the Flames were a contender got a serious reality check tonight.

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#10 ChinookArch
February 09 2013, 11:54PM
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"Calgary had their first true stinker of the year, which was bound to happen eventually."

Glad I missed this one. How did Street do tonight?

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#11 Scary Gary
February 09 2013, 11:57PM
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schevvy wrote:

If you look at it in the big picture, I think most people would be happy getting 4 out of 6 points on the 3 game road trip. But man, tonight SUCKED. Anyone who thought the Flames were a contender got a serious reality check tonight.

I thought 4-2 Van but the flames were even worse than I'd thought. If they go .500 over their next eight I'd be shocked. Irving was pretty decent tonight all in all, I wonder who will start Monday, As much as I'd like to see Taylor I'd say Irving.

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#12 Scary Gary
February 09 2013, 11:58PM
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ChinookArch wrote:

"Calgary had their first true stinker of the year, which was bound to happen eventually."

Glad I missed this one. How did Street do tonight?

Brutal -2 on the night, looked a bit lost.

He won some faceoffs though!

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#13 redricardo
February 09 2013, 11:59PM
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I know, this team is crazy bad. We totally need to blow it up right now. Maybe literally, attach some C4 to the bus. They deserve it due to them being the worst team in the history of the world, due to their loss tonight.

I mean, that requires you to ignore the fact that they've been in EVERY other game this year, they've been outplaying most of their opponents, they've been playing a more exciting brand of hockey, they've been trending up as the season goes on, and that before the road trip if you'd asked most fans, they would have said taking 4 out of 6 points would be a great result.

I especially loved the comment about how the leaders need to yell. Because that worked so well for Sutter the past three years.

It was one game. Like Kent said, first stinker of the year. If they play like this for a few games in a row it's a trend. Until then... Pump the brakes guys.

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#14 schevvy
February 10 2013, 12:03AM
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@Scary Gary

Next 8 games are: Wild, Stars, Blues at home, on the road in Dallas and Phoenix, then back at home for LA, Minnesota and Phoenix.

It's not actually that horrid, and if they want to be a playoff team they need to go 5-2-1 or something similar in my opinion. Play like they did tonight over those 8 games and they're on the path for Seth.

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#15 Scary Gary
February 10 2013, 12:05AM
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redricardo wrote:

I know, this team is crazy bad. We totally need to blow it up right now. Maybe literally, attach some C4 to the bus. They deserve it due to them being the worst team in the history of the world, due to their loss tonight.

I mean, that requires you to ignore the fact that they've been in EVERY other game this year, they've been outplaying most of their opponents, they've been playing a more exciting brand of hockey, they've been trending up as the season goes on, and that before the road trip if you'd asked most fans, they would have said taking 4 out of 6 points would be a great result.

I especially loved the comment about how the leaders need to yell. Because that worked so well for Sutter the past three years.

It was one game. Like Kent said, first stinker of the year. If they play like this for a few games in a row it's a trend. Until then... Pump the brakes guys.

Ummm I think cLYDE was the only one talking along those lines. I was stating me expectations for tonight were tempered based on the opponent, the injuries and the schedule.

Iggy's had 6 shots but couldn't bury one. He went 1 for 9 on faceoffs though.

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#16 Scary Gary
February 10 2013, 12:10AM
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schevvy wrote:

Next 8 games are: Wild, Stars, Blues at home, on the road in Dallas and Phoenix, then back at home for LA, Minnesota and Phoenix.

It's not actually that horrid, and if they want to be a playoff team they need to go 5-2-1 or something similar in my opinion. Play like they did tonight over those 8 games and they're on the path for Seth.

Yeah I'm thinking we'll win Monday but With two back to backs? Phoenix usually owns us without that advantage. St. Louis will bore us into submission, Sutter will have his boys ready for his old team and Dallas have been decent this year.

Backlund being out is a bigger loss than people realize.

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#17 schevvy
February 10 2013, 12:15AM
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@Scary Gary

I agree that the Backlund injury is huge (as I said in the FGD, give him deer antler spray!)

The fact though is Minny, Dallas and Phoenix are NOT elite teams, they are teams vey similar to the Flames. Back to backs I think are overrated, especially the 2nd one (both at home vs Minny/Phoenix). Shouldn't be used as an excuse.

We'll see though, hope the boys can pull it out!

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#18 T&A4Flames
February 10 2013, 12:36AM
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Needed a physical edge tonight. 'Nucks players were just skating around the Flames. would like to have seen Sarich drop someone.

Leland could have gotten the player of the game; Hell he should get something since the rest of the team didn't show up. Maybe just the last goal by Schroeder could have been some blame on Irving for letting such a big rebound but seriously, where the H was the D?

I sooooo miss Backs

This game really showed our lack of depth. But, it our guys just didn't look interested in this game. TJ was good again tonight, though.

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#19 Clay
February 10 2013, 01:19AM
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Flames looked slow tonight. They want to play with pace, but it is amazing how much speed is lost with Backlund out of the lineup. Hopefully Baertschi is ready soon.

On another note, Glencross was awful. I hate him on the top line. He has it in his head that he is a top line player. When he is on the top line, all he worries about is offense. This team needs his grit and work ethic to succeed. He should be playing on the third line where he can take over games and play against top lines.

Glencross hasn't exactly been a good soldier. He didn't seem pleased with the size of Cervenka's contract, Bourque being traded away, etc. Part of me thinks we need to use his recent production and good contract to see just what kind of return he could get.

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#20 beloch
February 10 2013, 01:43AM
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I wasn't able to watch the game, but the boxscore shows that the Flames outshot the Canucks by a margin of 4 shots. Was shot quality tremendously unequal, or was Irving just not the better goalie? I wonder if Taylor will get the next start...

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#21 Vintage Flame
February 10 2013, 01:56AM
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Scary Gary wrote:

VF What sort of contract do you figure Brodie will get this off-season provided he keeps this up?

Good question.

I think he gets offered a 3-5 year deal, probably at about $1.5 Mil per.

I wouldn't hold stock on my cap prediction, that I have no idea about, but I think the Flames would be interested in seeing him locked up for awhile.

A three year deal takes him to 25, 5 years to 27, so that still gives him the chance to develop for the big contract.

At 1.5 M, I would expect a 3 year deal.

...IMO

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#22 Kurt
February 10 2013, 06:00AM
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Are the new rules for the draft lottery out yet?

#NateMckinnon

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#23 Stockley
February 10 2013, 07:16AM
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Shouldn't we let them play a few more games before it's full blown panic mode and we declare to everyone that the sky is falling? It was one bad game, the first game after losing our best puck possession forward. Everyone might be right, it could be the beginning of the end; it could just as easily be an aberration, the first real stinker of the year. Every team has an off game now and again, even the really good ones.

This 'blow it up, trade everything with value!" talk is getting old. They don't seem inclined to listen to the rebuild chatter. For better or worse this is our team and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon barring a major philosophical change in ownership and management. I don't know whether it's more sad or amusing how fickle we all are. The last few days has been generally more optimistic, only one in ten posts on here was about a rebuild. One loss later we're standing on the edge of the abyss again.

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#24 negrilcowboy
February 10 2013, 08:05AM
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beloch wrote:

I wasn't able to watch the game, but the boxscore shows that the Flames outshot the Canucks by a margin of 4 shots. Was shot quality tremendously unequal, or was Irving just not the better goalie? I wonder if Taylor will get the next start...

the shot count is completely misleading. the facts are the flames were dominated. irving played very well and was the flames best player. picture this, one side skates the other plods. for those who believe the flames are a contender, i would like to know if there is coloured tv in the world you live in.

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#25 Kurt
February 10 2013, 08:17AM
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Stockley wrote:

Shouldn't we let them play a few more games before it's full blown panic mode and we declare to everyone that the sky is falling? It was one bad game, the first game after losing our best puck possession forward. Everyone might be right, it could be the beginning of the end; it could just as easily be an aberration, the first real stinker of the year. Every team has an off game now and again, even the really good ones.

This 'blow it up, trade everything with value!" talk is getting old. They don't seem inclined to listen to the rebuild chatter. For better or worse this is our team and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon barring a major philosophical change in ownership and management. I don't know whether it's more sad or amusing how fickle we all are. The last few days has been generally more optimistic, only one in ten posts on here was about a rebuild. One loss later we're standing on the edge of the abyss again.

I'm not sure people are fickle. I just think the various camps speak up or quiet down based on the trending pattern. Personally I'm cheering for 40 more losses in a row so we can once and for all get an elite player to change this team and lead it for the next decade. So when the team wins a few games I get quiet and sad. I assume the anti lottery/don't want a superstar draft pick crowd speak up more after wins. I don't think people are fickle, from what I've seen most fans have made up their mind one way or the other. Many are fed up and want dramatic change and a superstar draft pick. Many just think we are fine and want to grind it out with Iggy and some middling draft picks forever with the hope that a miracle will happen... Only time will tell who is right.

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#26 Craig
February 10 2013, 08:39AM
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As I watched this game it became apparent just how crucial Backlund is to this team. His ability to drive possession wouldn't have won this game, but we may have seen it a little more competitive. Sucks we didn't get to see Backs on the Czech line for an extended period of time. Leland was ok but he is a step behind where he needs to be to really stick around in the NHL. I think there is still a chance that he's a late bloomer and that in a couple of years he turns out to be pretty good, but I'm not overly optimistic.

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#27 Scary Gary
February 10 2013, 08:45AM
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Vintage Flame wrote:

Good question.

I think he gets offered a 3-5 year deal, probably at about $1.5 Mil per.

I wouldn't hold stock on my cap prediction, that I have no idea about, but I think the Flames would be interested in seeing him locked up for awhile.

A three year deal takes him to 25, 5 years to 27, so that still gives him the chance to develop for the big contract.

At 1.5 M, I would expect a 3 year deal.

...IMO

Gracias. That's about what I was thinking, by year three he might be a steal.

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#28 suba steve
February 10 2013, 08:57AM
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@Kurt

Kurt, I think you're 100% correct. The people who post (about how terrible the Flames are) after a loss like this are largely different then those that post after a win over Columbus. There were some really upbeat posts about this team after they beat last year's worst squad, so I would say to Stockley that it goes both ways.

Also to Stockley, what is "getting old" for a lot of us is passing the trade deadline and being in contention, reaching the last 10 games of the season being within reach of the last playoff spot, sputtering to end the season, then drafting in the 13th-14th range. Believe me, there is frustration in my camp too.

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#29 SmellOfVictory
February 10 2013, 09:02AM
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Scary Gary wrote:

VF What sort of contract do you figure Brodie will get this off-season provided he keeps this up?

Depends what he wants to go for, but I think they go for a bridge contract in the 2-3 million dollar range.

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#30 negrilcowboy
February 10 2013, 09:09AM
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lost in all the buzz surrounding the kippa and micky backczech injuries are the dissappearance of gio, and the blatantly glaring lack of true nhl calibre depth. the organization is void of young capable replacements. as mentioned on hnic your front line centre is actually a winger. sad commentary.on the upside stajan hits the score sheet again. seriously folks tangs centring the first unit, street the 2nd stajan 3rd and jones with 3 career goals the 4th unit is pitiful. ellerby was picked up for a 5th rd pick, feaster has gotta work the phones and find some nhl level talent. as for igglatowskis 6 shots he was robbed by a goalie who had a great crest last light.

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#31 clYDE
February 10 2013, 09:09AM
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redricardo wrote:

I know, this team is crazy bad. We totally need to blow it up right now. Maybe literally, attach some C4 to the bus. They deserve it due to them being the worst team in the history of the world, due to their loss tonight.

I mean, that requires you to ignore the fact that they've been in EVERY other game this year, they've been outplaying most of their opponents, they've been playing a more exciting brand of hockey, they've been trending up as the season goes on, and that before the road trip if you'd asked most fans, they would have said taking 4 out of 6 points would be a great result.

I especially loved the comment about how the leaders need to yell. Because that worked so well for Sutter the past three years.

It was one game. Like Kent said, first stinker of the year. If they play like this for a few games in a row it's a trend. Until then... Pump the brakes guys.

It's a trend that has been over 3 years. When is enough enough?

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#32 Franko J
February 10 2013, 09:11AM
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For the first time this season I saw the Flames play with little or no emotion. Overall their level of competiveness was lacking. After the first goal by the Canucks the Flames appeared to me intimidated and overwhelmed. Last night just wasn't their night. The team has to regroup and concentrate on their game. I think last night the Canucks proved to be the better team and Hartley was outcoached in this one.

The reality with the Flames is until they have a legit # 1 center games like last night will occur for this team. With Backlund being injured the Flames at this moment don't have the centers to dominate the game. I'm not saying Backlund is or isn't that center, but he especially helped to solidify the roster down the middle for the Flames.

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#33 Subversive
February 10 2013, 09:17AM
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First really poor effort of the season. What worries me is they have been trending downward the last few games, to my eye. Really sucks about losing Backlund, I was honestly starting to believe in this team. Now I'm back on the fence, but I fear last nights game might be the beginning of a major slide.

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#34 Ryan Pike
February 10 2013, 09:31AM
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Brodie will AT LEAST get Butler money.

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#35 Alt
February 10 2013, 09:38AM
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And to add salt to the wound we had to listen to PJ Stock (little man syndrome)yakking about the Flames being the worst team in the league.The little 4th liner for a year, really does need to get over himself

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#36 Jeff In Lethbridge
February 10 2013, 09:46AM
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it isn't that the flames lose a game - 2 of 3 on the roads just fine.

the problem is they totally quite skating when it became 2-1, and just put in time after that... if they leave it all out their and lose - no problem, but to mail it in, and even worse, shaft their backup goalie who is trying to make the most of his possibly last shot - this shows some serious team character issues, doesn't it? I really feel for Leeland in this case - he really played hard... one of the few.

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#37 Trevy
February 10 2013, 09:56AM
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Mr. Feaster, your window of opportunity to rebuild this team is closing fast. Surely you must know that even with a shorten season, if you do not make the playoffs and worst yet, finish at the bottom of the standings, your 3yr tenure is pretty much up. Time to let go of the likes of Iggy, Tanguay, Cammaleri, Boumeester and Kipper. They're the only constant that remains in the past few years and have tasted defeat so many times, that they are now use to it. Please slowly get rid of all these once prime time players and get an infusion of youth, size and energy. We already have a small, young stable rising up the ranks, so why not add to it and secure the next decade. When you look around the league, there is no way that any man could believe the current Flames lineup could compete with the likes of several top tier teams. Therefore, quit procrastinating and do something now!

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#38 Baalzamon
February 10 2013, 10:02AM
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beloch wrote:

I wasn't able to watch the game, but the boxscore shows that the Flames outshot the Canucks by a margin of 4 shots. Was shot quality tremendously unequal, or was Irving just not the better goalie? I wonder if Taylor will get the next start...

I'm just about 100% certain that they miscounted the 1st and 3rd periods.

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#39 negrilcowboy
February 10 2013, 10:11AM
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Trevy wrote:

Mr. Feaster, your window of opportunity to rebuild this team is closing fast. Surely you must know that even with a shorten season, if you do not make the playoffs and worst yet, finish at the bottom of the standings, your 3yr tenure is pretty much up. Time to let go of the likes of Iggy, Tanguay, Cammaleri, Boumeester and Kipper. They're the only constant that remains in the past few years and have tasted defeat so many times, that they are now use to it. Please slowly get rid of all these once prime time players and get an infusion of youth, size and energy. We already have a small, young stable rising up the ranks, so why not add to it and secure the next decade. When you look around the league, there is no way that any man could believe the current Flames lineup could compete with the likes of several top tier teams. Therefore, quit procrastinating and do something now!

ease your pain, read the captains quotes. gee schucks, we need a bounce back game or they wanted it more than us, or we need to capitalize on our chances. what is amazing is that no matter what the systems the coach employs, the captain is the last one to buy in. the core as they are known is the problem, they have a country club attitude. i don't see the fire and the we refuse to lose attitude that truely competitive organizations possess. the roster is a group of 30 something over the hills and a collection of ahl talent with not much in between. also there is no true team identity. as for feaster, its time he grows a set and takes a bold aggressive approach, work the phones. lombardi, tallon and others continually upgade and tweak the rosters. in flamesland roster moves are shuttling career minor leaguers up to the show for short funfilled durations. being a chaitable organization and making fantasies and dreams come true are wonder, however there is no place for them in the nhl. if you want to be charitable then open the saddledome up to less fortune in society, put a smile on an underprivelged kids face, dont fleece the fan base.

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#40 Kevin R
February 10 2013, 10:50AM
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Stockley wrote:

Shouldn't we let them play a few more games before it's full blown panic mode and we declare to everyone that the sky is falling? It was one bad game, the first game after losing our best puck possession forward. Everyone might be right, it could be the beginning of the end; it could just as easily be an aberration, the first real stinker of the year. Every team has an off game now and again, even the really good ones.

This 'blow it up, trade everything with value!" talk is getting old. They don't seem inclined to listen to the rebuild chatter. For better or worse this is our team and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon barring a major philosophical change in ownership and management. I don't know whether it's more sad or amusing how fickle we all are. The last few days has been generally more optimistic, only one in ten posts on here was about a rebuild. One loss later we're standing on the edge of the abyss again.

Hey Bro I hear you! Going on this road trip I expected 1-2. Seriously. going 2-1 is way better than I thought. I have been preaching February is going to make or break this team. Here's the thing, healthy & a favorable schedule this Flames edition has every chance to make the playoffs. We are as good as 2/3rds the teams on a normal given night. But the other 1/3rd is better. Why? They have franchise players in their mid twenty's. These guys make many players look way better just being around them. These Flames, God bless them, our big money players are in around 30 & greater. Iggy doesnt make players look good anymore but he is still a good player. But Iggy needs to realize this team is not a Cup contender but a fringe playoff team if all goes right. Backlund was the one player so far that was making other players on his line look better. Thats what skilled youth will do for you. We have some pieces coming, but its not quick enough. I dont like hearing fire sale, I dont think thats neccessary. But we have some big decisions coming, & I know guys like Ipoc despise anyone saying this, but the core has got to get younger. You can only do it by drafting & drafting is like throwing darts at a board, thats why you need as many darts as you can get & to get as close to the bullseye as possible.

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#41 Kevin R
February 10 2013, 11:10AM
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Ryan Pike wrote:

Brodie will AT LEAST get Butler money.

Disagree. If Brodie continues to play the way he is, he'll be just slightly under PK & Delzotto. I would say a 3 year deal for 6.0 to 6.6 mill (around 2.0mill per) is a fair & rewarding deal for both sides & it still gives him incentive to get even better for a much better payday. JMO. Cerevenka, I think we still have to wait before we can talk any kind of #'s for him. He has skills but not dominating or I just havent seen him dominate a game yet. I too am in the bring Horak up camp & let him complete the Chekkar line. It almost makes too much sense.

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#42 RexLibris
February 10 2013, 11:36AM
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Kurt wrote:

Are the new rules for the draft lottery out yet?

#NateMckinnon

As I understand it, the same lottery odds apply but the restriction on how high the winning team moves is removed. Therefore, under the old system you won the lottery and moved up four places, now you win the lottery you move to 1st overall. Your chances diminish significantly with each step back in the ranking, but the reward has been greatly improved.

Here is the breakdown, starting from 30th place and moving up to 17th the percentages run thus - 25%, 18.8, 14.2, 10.7, 8.1, 6.2, 4.7, 3.6, 2.7, 2.1, 1.5, 1.1, 0.8, 0.5. I would argue that ideally, for a team to have a strong chance at 1st overall you'd like to be no further than 27th overall. After that the chances really start to drop off significantly.

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#43 Kurt
February 10 2013, 12:04PM
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RexLibris wrote:

As I understand it, the same lottery odds apply but the restriction on how high the winning team moves is removed. Therefore, under the old system you won the lottery and moved up four places, now you win the lottery you move to 1st overall. Your chances diminish significantly with each step back in the ranking, but the reward has been greatly improved.

Here is the breakdown, starting from 30th place and moving up to 17th the percentages run thus - 25%, 18.8, 14.2, 10.7, 8.1, 6.2, 4.7, 3.6, 2.7, 2.1, 1.5, 1.1, 0.8, 0.5. I would argue that ideally, for a team to have a strong chance at 1st overall you'd like to be no further than 27th overall. After that the chances really start to drop off significantly.

Hmmmm... So if I understand this it really actually hurts the 30th place team more than it helps anyone move up. Before if you had 30th the only way to move down was if 2-5 won the lottery. So 30th 'wins' if they win or anyone not in 29-26 place. Now 30th place has a 75% of moving down to 2nd.

I guess what his really tells me is that you should assume the lotto teams will move down instead of thinking it as bad luck to move down like Columbus did last year.

So to secure McKinnon or Seth jones you really need to get dead last.

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#44 RKD
February 10 2013, 12:11PM
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The Flames are not in Vancouver's league, the Canucks have now beaten us 12 times in the last 15 meetings. The top 3 talent isn't good enough, this team looks better on paper than Nashville or Phoenix but still cannnot play consistently. Nashville and Phoenix elevate their game to another level, the Flames don't do this enough which is why they cannot make the playoffs.

This team is one of the least penalized in the league, they shouldn't take stupid penalties but they should be a lot more physical regardless of adding skilled players.

So far the most consistent Flame players have been Stempniak, Hudler and Tanguay.

A lot of people said Irving looked pretty good despite giving up 5 goals.

Some have suggested for sometime now Iginla has become comfortable, he likes living here and his kids go to school here. A lot of his post game comments are "We weren't good enough" and "it was a bad game" This might be trickling to the rest of the team. Even if Iggy is a step or two behind, he doesn't get fired up as he used to. He doesn't need to fight, we just want to see that bull awake inside of him. None of this resignation to losing, the Flames doesn't push back anymore they go away quietly which is most disturbing.

We are on pace for 48 points, my guess is 52-56 points to get in. The Flames would need to go something like 23-12-4 to hit 56, above .600+ or better to get in.

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#45 T&A4Flames
February 10 2013, 12:12PM
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Stockley wrote:

Shouldn't we let them play a few more games before it's full blown panic mode and we declare to everyone that the sky is falling? It was one bad game, the first game after losing our best puck possession forward. Everyone might be right, it could be the beginning of the end; it could just as easily be an aberration, the first real stinker of the year. Every team has an off game now and again, even the really good ones.

This 'blow it up, trade everything with value!" talk is getting old. They don't seem inclined to listen to the rebuild chatter. For better or worse this is our team and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon barring a major philosophical change in ownership and management. I don't know whether it's more sad or amusing how fickle we all are. The last few days has been generally more optimistic, only one in ten posts on here was about a rebuild. One loss later we're standing on the edge of the abyss again.

This is hardly a "fickle" attitude, at least for me. I've been on here for a while nod the "blow it up" camp has been building for 3 years. I don't think we to blow it all to bits but we do need to make some hard decisions. I started falling into that camp last year just prior to the deadline.

For me it's actually more about situations than wins or losses; although it all has to be taken as a whole. This is our absolute last chance to move Iggy for something, hopefully watch him win a cup somewhere, and then, again hopefully, sign a retirement contract here. If Iggy signs that contract right now it's done. He won't get a cup and we are on the slow path to a rebuild.

We can keep Tangs, GlenX, Hudler, Gio and Wideman as a strong vet core. Add a couple FA to Backs, Sven, Cervenka and TJ, and we are still competitive and exciting under Hartley's system. Move Iggy, Cammi and maybe Jbo and Kipper and we have the best possible situation. Iggy has a chance at a cup, we've quickened the rebuild and we remain competitive. We may also get Iggy back this summer or next if he wins the cup. Heck we could make trading Iggy st the deadline an annual event a la Keith Tckachuk.

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#46 Brad
February 10 2013, 12:31PM
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For all the people who say they have to blow it up or tank thseason, etc, has anyone saying this actually played competitive sports at a serious level? Players. Won't just stop winning because the organization needs a top pick. They have careers and contracts on the line.

Anyone willing to accept being the worst isn't someone you really want to build a team around.

Aside from the total uncertainty of the outcome of picking near the top of the draft (NYI, Fla, CBJ) the human element doesn't make sense to expect players to lose. That is poor management when you have the resources that this franchise has.

If the Oilers miss the playoffs again, will the media stop with the rhetoric that the rebuild is a conscious decision and not the forced outcome from inept ability?

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#47 SmellOfVictory
February 10 2013, 12:36PM
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RexLibris wrote:

As I understand it, the same lottery odds apply but the restriction on how high the winning team moves is removed. Therefore, under the old system you won the lottery and moved up four places, now you win the lottery you move to 1st overall. Your chances diminish significantly with each step back in the ranking, but the reward has been greatly improved.

Here is the breakdown, starting from 30th place and moving up to 17th the percentages run thus - 25%, 18.8, 14.2, 10.7, 8.1, 6.2, 4.7, 3.6, 2.7, 2.1, 1.5, 1.1, 0.8, 0.5. I would argue that ideally, for a team to have a strong chance at 1st overall you'd like to be no further than 27th overall. After that the chances really start to drop off significantly.

Ideally the Oilers would finish 30th again, but the Flames would win the lottery, having finished 17th, and snag that delicious first overall right from under their noses.

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#48 Brad
February 10 2013, 12:37PM
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Note - the first paragraph isn't intended as a shot at anyone, I just would like to pose that as a point to think about

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#49 suba steve
February 10 2013, 12:42PM
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@Brad

No one is going to be asked to lose a single game. Fact is, the Flames may not be all that good. Add to that the subtraction of a #1 goaltender, a first pairing D-man, and a future HOF R-winger (all via trade for quality youth/picks) and this team is likely to sink close to the bottom of the standings (where they currently reside anyway) by seasons end.

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#50 T&A4Flames
February 10 2013, 12:49PM
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Brad wrote:

For all the people who say they have to blow it up or tank thseason, etc, has anyone saying this actually played competitive sports at a serious level? Players. Won't just stop winning because the organization needs a top pick. They have careers and contracts on the line.

Anyone willing to accept being the worst isn't someone you really want to build a team around.

Aside from the total uncertainty of the outcome of picking near the top of the draft (NYI, Fla, CBJ) the human element doesn't make sense to expect players to lose. That is poor management when you have the resources that this franchise has.

If the Oilers miss the playoffs again, will the media stop with the rhetoric that the rebuild is a conscious decision and not the forced outcome from inept ability?

I agree, no one is theoretically going to stop winning or trying to be competitive. The problem is some players just don't have the same level of compete or skill that others do. As a team, some just don't have enough of the latter type players and to much of the former.

No one is saying ask the players to lose, they're doing that on their own.

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