Five things: A look at the trade bait

Ryan Lambert
March 14 2013 09:37AM

 

 

Okay so we can all acknowledge the Flames are finished this season. Not technically, not officially, but the clock is ticking very, very fast. Prior to last night's game they could, mathematically, only lose eight more games in regulation all season before they were locked out of getting to the fabled 55-point mark that most believe will be the cutoff for the playoffs this season. It seems very likely they'll do that by the end of the month, at least at this rate.

And so the attention turns to whether the Flames will trade any of the guys on the team they should have traded a year or two ago at least, so let's have a look at what I think are the five most obvious trade targets for other teams, in no particular order.

1. Mike Cammalleri

The argument for: Trading Cammalleri comes with the obvious and immediate help of offloading a guy who's slated to earn $6 million against the cap and $7 million in actual money and, in theory, someone is going to want that 17 points in 21 games for a guy who can play a number of forward positions. He's currently on pace for a 35-goal season, and that's some not joking around type stuff from a guy most people weren't exactly thrilled to have coming back, even if he did score 11 in 28 last year.

The argument against: There is the theoretical possibility that the team would want him to stick around next season because, while he's on the wrong side of 30, he's just barely so, and again he is obviously a fairly useful player when utilized in the right way. I would argue that Bob Hartley hasn't really utilized him the right way, and he's still on a 35-goal pace, so that's obviously a positive for him. Further, you wonder exactly how many teams would clamor to get him given the finances of the deal, and what the return would be.

Chance he gets traded, in my opinion, and based on nothing: 50 percent. 

2. Jay Bouwmeester

The argument for: It seems likely that he would fetch a fairly significant return given the paucity of quality defensemen on the market, and while the numbers still aren't really there for him, this is also shaping up to be his best offensive season in Calgary. He's still good in his own end, he's still an excellent transition defenseman, and it's likely that his value will never be higher than it now.

The argument against: He's not exactly affordable, and he's signed at that famous $6.68 million against the cap for next year as well. Teams might be scared off somewhat by the idea that he could turn into the not wholly accurate "most overpaid defenseman in the league" version of Jay Bouwmeester rather than the one we're looking at right now. I think there will probably be significant interest, but as with the Cammalleri situation, I don't know that the return would be significant enough to make Calgary want to ship him out.

Chance he gets traded, in my opinion, and based on nothing: 70 percent.

3. Miikka Kiprusoff

The argument for: He's been absolutely crap this season in almost every single game he's played. I can't remember the exact stats I saw the other day but he, and the rest of the Flames' goaltenders this year, are all considerably below replacement level, and that doesn't seem likely to change any time soon. Getting rid of him might be something you end up regretting next season if he rebounds, but at this point that seems like a gigantic "if," and there's a reason you hear way more about buyer's remorse than seller's remorse. Plus, those who do want to acquire him will have him making just $1.5 million next season in real money, even as he continues to pull $5.833 million against the cap. New York Islanders, I'm lookin' at you.

The argument against: Who's going to want him with these numbers for anything resembling a quarter-decent return?

Chance he gets traded, in my opinion, and based on nothing: 25 percent.

4. Tim Jackman no just kidding Mark Giordano

The argument for: He's relatively cheap and though he hasn't been very good this season the reputation of Mark Giordano in his better days likely still lingers. Again, this is one of those situations where I don't think the Flames would get much of a return just because they'd be kind of over the barrel if they tried shopping him, but at the same time, if someone gets desperate enough, particularly in the days just before the deadline, I can see him getting shipped out.

The argument against: He's signed through 2015-16, which is no joke, and it's not often you see someone with that many years left on their deal traded at or near the deadline unless Scott Howson is involved. Teams might need the help of a 29-year-old defenseman with a goodish reputation in the offensive zone, but this too is a case of my belief that someone would need to blow Feaster's doors off with an offer, which I doubt will happen.

Chance he gets traded, in my opinion, and based on nothing: 10 percent.

5. Jarome Iginla

The argument for: He's old, he's slowing down, he would probably fetch the biggest haul of anyone on the current roster, and you can go on and on like this. The argument for trading Iginla is that it should have happened so long ago it's difficult to remember a time when they shouldn't have traded Iginla. PLUS!!!! there's the speculation Elliotte Friedman put forth earlier this week that Murray Edwards might be able to convince Iginla to accept a trade to help the team, then come back in the summer; ideal for both sides, and the fans who might kill themselves over the prospect of the Flames without Iginla.

The argument against: Someone might literally burn down the Saddledome. Also, the risk of losing Iginla as a gimmick to sell tickets to idiots who think he's still 29. Also, if you never want him to win a Stanley Cup. Also he'd have to waive his no-movement, clause, but that's true of literally half the team so there you have it!

Chance he gets traded, in my opinion, and based on nothing: 85 percent.

686dfac3780611cb7acad6ce5166c6c1
Yer ol' buddy Lambert is handsome and great and everyone loves him. Also you can visit his regular blog at The Two-Line Pass or follow him on Twitter. Lucky you!
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#1 icedawg_42
March 14 2013, 10:34AM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Comeau never had any value. The Flames plucked him off waivers.

That said, with Hartley playing him as much as he does and Comeau kicking in points here and there he probably looks okay from a 50k foot level.

I was wondering why Hartley had him playing with Backs and Hudler last night. Maybe there was a secret conversation between the two

Feaster: "Do ANYTHING you can to make this guy look good - we gotta offload some flotsam"

Hartley: "Oui!"

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#2 the-wolf
March 14 2013, 10:58AM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Stajan a lot. He's gone from probable buy-out to decent enough top-six center.

Let's be reasonable. Stajan is a #3 center on any team of any merit. NOT a #2, regardless of where Calgary plays him.

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#3 the-wolf
March 14 2013, 11:03AM
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Trade: Iginla, JBo, Cammi, Gio, Tanguay.

These will bring the most back in both quality and quantity. Calgary lacks blue chip prospects, but they also lack depth in prospects.

Keep: Stajan, Stempniak, Kipper, Glencross.

These are all serviceavle to decent vets on affordable deals who can help the team transition.

I see JBo going to Detroit, Iginla to the Pens, Gio to the Flyers. Unless Couturier is offered, but I still have trouble accepting that rumor.

I'd like to get Jarnkrok out of Detroit and the Pens have so many quality D prospects it's sickening. One of them and Bennett would be awesome.

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#4 the-wolf
March 14 2013, 11:11AM
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As an aside:

Calgary signs Cervenka who has been mediocre.

Detroit signs Brunner who has been stellar.

Now, didn't Hartley work in Switzerland last year? And isn't Brunner from there? So how did we not have the scoop on Brunner?

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#5 Kent Wilson
March 14 2013, 11:52AM
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@NateBaldwin

He scratches him, doesn't him play him when the game is on the line and doesn't play him against good players. Cervenka is 9th amongst regular Flames forwards in terms of ES ice time per game and Im guessing Blake Comeau will soon pass him on that list.

By "doesn't like him", I mean "doesn't rate him as very useful". I don't know how he feels about Cervenka personally, but as an NHL player, Hartley doesn't really think Cervenka can help him win hockey games. We can see that clearly in how he chooses to deploy him.

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#6 Sincity1976
March 14 2013, 01:03PM
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There was a couple. They loved each other. Enjoyed each others company. They wanted to stay together. The only issue is that the when they were 'togeter' she couldn't have an orgasm.

They tried ointments, coaches, equipment, etc. But nothing worked.

They didn't want to break up. But neither wanted to. So the man came up with a solution.

The woman would leave for a short while and have her orgasm with another guy. Then come back.

Does anyone really think that this chick is returning to the lower after some stud rocks her world?

Do you really think Iginla is going to return to a losing team after making a run to the cup with a real team?

If he goes he goes.

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#7 Kent Wilson
March 14 2013, 01:05PM
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@NateBaldwin

It might be a contributing factor, but mostly it just looks like he doesn't think he's useful. Cervenka gets sat in third periods a lot, particularly when the Flames have a lead. He got scratched last night in favor of Comeau, McGrattan and Begin. That doesn't strike me as just "this guy isn't quite in shape".

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#8 shutout
March 14 2013, 01:32PM
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Sincity1976 wrote:

There was a couple. They loved each other. Enjoyed each others company. They wanted to stay together. The only issue is that the when they were 'togeter' she couldn't have an orgasm.

They tried ointments, coaches, equipment, etc. But nothing worked.

They didn't want to break up. But neither wanted to. So the man came up with a solution.

The woman would leave for a short while and have her orgasm with another guy. Then come back.

Does anyone really think that this chick is returning to the lower after some stud rocks her world?

Do you really think Iginla is going to return to a losing team after making a run to the cup with a real team?

If he goes he goes.

So you are saying that Iginla has been getting $#!*@% by the Flames organization and has not been getting any pleasure from it.

Making $7M a year in this sort of arrangement means that he has to be one of the best paid prostitutes in the history of the entire world.

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#9 meat1
March 14 2013, 02:02PM
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Without a doubt, major changes need to take place in the coming days. How about this....

Jarome, Tim Jackman and Cory Sarich to Pittsburgh for their first rounder this season. Plus, after they protect any three players under the age of 22, our choice of any two players that remain. And...a conditional pick in 2014 that is dependant on: a)how deep they go in these playoffs, and b)if Iggy re-signs.

Lee Stempniak to St. Louis. He enjoyed good scoring success there in the past, and the Blues could use his help. In return Calgary gets a 2nd round pick this year.

Mike Cammalleri to Boston for prospect Ryan Spooner OR their first round pick in this draft. The Bruins won't have forgotten the Cammy that lead the Habs in the playoffs a couple years back. And they won't be happy about missing out on Jarome.

Kipper to the highest bidder. I think the time has come to cut bait with the best goalie we maybe have ever had. If a contender has their goalie go down to injury prior to the deadline, I think we can get a nice return for #34.

Jaybo to one of two places: Detroit or Philly. If its Philly, we also send Akim Aliu and Roman Horak. In return, we get Sean Couturier and their 2nd round pick this year. If it's Detroit, we send only J-bo and receive their first round pick this year, as well as centre Calle Jarnkrok. J-bo would be a fixture on their blueline for many years.

As well, anyone that wanted Nemisz, Irving, Babchuk, and Comeau...would be obliged.

Alex Tanguay becomes captain, with Glencross and hopefully the old Giordano as assistants.

These are just some thoughts I had...

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#10 Veggie Dog
March 14 2013, 02:13PM
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I just saw that Lecavalier is on the IR indefinitely. Now we are safe from Feaster doing something nutty on that front. Phew.

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#11 Rockmorton65
March 14 2013, 04:02PM
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I think trading Iggy at this point becomes less about hockey and more about decency. He's been drinking the Flames' kool aid for almost 20 years. He deserves to drink champagne.

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#12 Chris
March 14 2013, 10:40PM
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> Prior to last night's game they could, mathematically, only lose eight more games in regulation all season before they were locked out of getting to the fabled 55-point mark that most believe will be the cutoff for the playoffs this season

The Flames may be in tough, but that particular stat doesn't indicate much. As of tonight, fourth-place St. Louis can only lose 9 games in regulation if they want to get to 55 points (they'd be 26-19-3). To get to 25-18-5, the Wings can only lose 8 in regulation. Columbus must lose no more than 5 in regulation to get to 24-17-7. Using that stat, the Flames (can only lose 7) are in the middle of the playoff-hunting pack.

The more worrying stat is that, if we concede the games against the Hawks and Ducks, the Flames have to go 15-4-1 against the rest to get to 55 points. Even if we were to claim the Flames are the third best team in the Conference, they only get 4 off nights.

Ouch.

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#13 the-wolf
March 15 2013, 06:34AM
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SeanCharles wrote:

@ Ryan Lambert

Why is there this notion within some Flames fans that we should have traded Iginla long ago?

You don't trade your Franchise Player especially when he's on the verge of breaking organizational records ( he couldn't have done so if traded years ago). You don't trade him when he is your best player and most marketable player on the team, with no one in the wings to replace him.

This team supposedly almost relocated, it may have been an empty threat but still the team had issues just before the cup run.

So why on earth should we have traded him years ago? If we are gonna go back in time to change something why not change for 1 the Phaneuf trade? Or the drafts over years past?

The real thing we should have done years ago is get Iggy a top centre to play with. Phaneuf was the piece that could have gotten that.

I agree maybe it is time to trade him. But I'm sorry I'm just sick of hearing we should have traded him years ago.

There's a lot of things we should have done years ago.

Trading Iginla is not one of them...

All of those reasons are exactly why you do trade him. Esepcially this one:

"You don't trade him when he is your best player and most marketable player on the team, with no one in the wings to replace him."

You do it because there is no one else and guess what? You need someone else's.

When I first suggested moving Iginla after his 50 goal season I was essentially booted off of that butt-kissing site of 12 year old fan boys called CalgaryPuck.

Called every name in the book. Because, you know, I was the idiot for suggesting that Jeff Carter, Giroux and a 1st was the way to go. "Those players suck. They're not even close to Iginla. Giroux will never make it." Add in Sbisa? Threats to kill me, I kid you not. "You'd have to trade half of Philly to make it happen, etc., etc."

Well, imagine if Calgary had made that deal. They'd look like geniuses now, wouldn't they? As far as I know, the first person to ever use the Iginla/Sundin comparison was me. Because I saw it already back then. One superstar and a bunch of crap that was never going to go anywhere and here was a chance to get a king's ransom and rebuild.

So, you know what I hate? Short-sighted fan boys who put hero-worshipping a guy making 7 million dollars a year over and above the crest on the front of the jersey. I find it offensive and I find it repulsive and I find it disgusting and it makes me sick.

I hope you've enjoyed watching Iginla set some records. I also hope that you've enjoyed once past the first round in 24 years. Not sure how anyone can cheer for individual player records over the success of the team, but good for you, you're definately a fan of the right team.

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#14 suba steve
March 15 2013, 07:12AM
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@the-wolf

I was at the game where Iggy became the all time leader in points (or goals, don't remember which) as a Flame. The Flames were behind in the 3rd, so my son and I left with something like 10-15min remaining as he had school in the morning. When we got to the car we learned that Iggy had scored and we missed a silver stick presentation. We couldn't have cared less. Would have rather stayed for a TEAM victory. That event is representative of Iggy's time in Calgary, lot's of individual achievment with little team success. Of course, 2004 was glorious, but what else do we have to show for Iggy's tenure, as a team?

Not sure that I would have been on board to trade Iggy after his first 50 goal season, but I have been a supporter of that strategy for at least 3-4 years now. The missed LA deal will forever be a sore point with me.

I'm completely with you, I see a long dry spell ahead, and the best way to shorten that spell is to move the "captain". Don't even get me started on his true value as a "leader".

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#15 bookofloob
March 14 2013, 09:45AM
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It's insane, given the team's spot in the standings, how many of guys on the team we can say "well he's playing way better than last year, he's really upped his trade value"

You can throw (at times) Glencross and Stajan on that list. Maybe Stempniak too

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#16 Kent Wilson
March 14 2013, 09:54AM
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@bookofloob

Stajan a lot. He's gone from probable buy-out to decent enough top-six center.

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#17 icedawg_42
March 14 2013, 10:04AM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Stajan a lot. He's gone from probable buy-out to decent enough top-six center.

Agree. Stempniak too, to a certain degree. Comeau has destroyed any value he once had. Glencross needs to stay - I know he's probably got the most trade-friendly contract on the team, but the guy is money.

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#18 Baalzamon
March 14 2013, 10:09AM
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St. Louis is a very good team with a ridiculous amount of cap space--the most in the league, in fact. I could definitely see them taking on Bouwmeester (the caveat being they have to re-sign Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, and Berglund after this season... along with 11 other players).

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#19 Colin.S
March 14 2013, 10:12AM
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There's more than enough trade bait on the Flames current roster that we could end up with a slew of draft picks/prospects if Feaster plays his cards right, and if we trade enough it will all but guarantee us the #1 draft slot as well.

Bouwmeester IMO gets us the most, cause he has that extra year that a team that gets him as a deadline rental could either re-trade him or have a very serviceable Dman for the entirety of next season. Next is Iggy. Both of them could get us 1st round picks, though very late ones, but whatever, with our very high pick plus some late ones we can stock the cupboards.

Stajan is good trade bait for depth, he's looked like a top 6 forward for a lot of time this year, a team looking for depth could slot him in as a good 3rd line center. Camms is really good trade bait as well, depending on trading Iggy/Bouwmeester, Camms salary would most likely need to come of the books if the first two are not traded, and with the pace of his play, he is could possibly net us a first as well.

But imagine if we traded all of Stagan/Bouwmeester/Iginla/Camms, would we win a single game for the rest of the season?

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#20 T&A4Flames
March 14 2013, 10:24AM
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I've been reading a lot of the comments on the post-game thread. It seems that people are still split on whether or not to trade Iggy.

Bottom line is this, the Flames will have to make moves if they want to fit under the cap and still sign Iggy and our FA like TJ, Butler, Backs etc.

Perhaps they can do it but then we will be looking at basically the same "swinging for the fence but chipping into the infield" team we have had for 4 years now.

I'm not asking for a tear down or blow up, but I am willing to suffer one last year of angst to get help going forward. This is a terribly built team; we have no center depth. I want 2 things:

1. For Jarome to win a cup. It won't happen in CGY if he stays. However, if we move him and a couple of others, re-sign Iggy in the summer or next, he may still be able to get that cup here because now we have attained pieces that can get it done in a few year instead of waiting to start in 2-3 years.

2.For this team to create long lasting success. We have our best opportunity to start that this season.

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#21 Kent Wilson
March 14 2013, 10:31AM
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@icedawg_42

Comeau never had any value. The Flames plucked him off waivers.

That said, with Hartley playing him as much as he does and Comeau kicking in points here and there he probably looks okay from a 50k foot level.

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#22 T&A4Flames
March 14 2013, 10:39AM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Stajan a lot. He's gone from probable buy-out to decent enough top-six center.

Top 6?! Maybe top 9, IMO. He can fill in 0n the 2nd but I still say he is better suited to 3rd line duties.

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#23 Colin.S
March 14 2013, 10:39AM
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TIL: So while looking for Comeaus's stat line to see if he has ANY trade value, I found out that Stajan is the player with the highest +\- on the Flames, LOL WUT! That stat itself is stupid, but looks good to incompetent GMs(so trade to Edmonton then).

Also I found out that Comeau has no trade value, but that was to be expected.... although theres always the chance he's waiver bait to free up a contract slot.

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#24 Kent Wilson
March 14 2013, 10:43AM
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@T&A4Flames

Ideally, yeah, but he's been playing other team's best players recently and not getting killed so...

that said, Glencross and Stempniak have been really good this season and think they have a lot to do with that. If they put Backs on that line it could be a decent shut-down type unit I think, but it's been operating well enough with Stajan as the pivot.

Either way, Stajan looks functional at the NHL level after being ground into the dirt by Sutter. His contract suddenly seems reasonable too.

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#25 Casey
March 14 2013, 10:43AM
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They need to cash in on Bouwmeester now. I like how he is playing, but his contract is up in 2014, he has never had higher value, and there is no way that he is resigning here. The dude has never played a playoff game. When his contract is up he is going straight to LA, PIT, BOS, CHI, or some other *guaranteed* playoff team. His trade value only declines moving forward.

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#26 Rubberbadger
March 14 2013, 10:55AM
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bookofloob wrote:

It's insane, given the team's spot in the standings, how many of guys on the team we can say "well he's playing way better than last year, he's really upped his trade value"

You can throw (at times) Glencross and Stajan on that list. Maybe Stempniak too

I wonder if this would be the case if we did not play back up goalies every night.

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#27 Casey
March 14 2013, 11:02AM
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Can we *ALL* acknowledge that the Flames are finished this season? I wonder if ownership believes it? The schedule between now and and the deadline is actually not too bad. It is mostly against non-playoff teams, and 50% of the games are at home. I have a bad feeling that the Flames are going to go on a streak here, once again fooling the "powers that be" into believing that the Flames are 1-2 players away from being contenders. Yikes.

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#28 Alt
March 14 2013, 11:05AM
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IMO The best opportunity coming back in any trade will be prospect,s in the 22-23 year old range.Draft picks are good ,but 3-4 years away.

That,s what makes this so difficult for management, we need both.

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#29 Colin.S
March 14 2013, 11:07AM
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Rubberbadger wrote:

I wonder if this would be the case if we did not play back up goalies every night.

Hey, don't be so mean to Kipper. :P

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#30 the-wolf
March 14 2013, 11:07AM
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Casey wrote:

Can we *ALL* acknowledge that the Flames are finished this season? I wonder if ownership believes it? The schedule between now and and the deadline is actually not too bad. It is mostly against non-playoff teams, and 50% of the games are at home. I have a bad feeling that the Flames are going to go on a streak here, once again fooling the "powers that be" into believing that the Flames are 1-2 players away from being contenders. Yikes.

Well, the Flames beat a back-up goalie last night who stunk and the teams they're fighting may be largely out of the playoffs, but they're also ahead of Calgary and fighting for the playoffs. But your fear is everone's fear. Just suck it up and do it already.

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#31 redricardo
March 14 2013, 11:09AM
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Not a fan of an Oilers style rebuild. Draft picks don't pay dividends for years, and it doesn't always work. Yeah, the Blackhawks did it. But look at the Islanders, Oilers, Blue Jackets. Sometimes you just suck for the sake of sucking.

Personally, I'm in support of doing something closer to the Senators a couple years ago, or Montreal last year. Call it a retool vs rebuild if you're a big fan of the buzzwords.

Follow a business model. Trade your expiring assets before they walk away for nothing. Sell high, a la Bouwmeester. If there's a market for a player, or a bidding war, take it. The best part about the game last night was intermission's quiz, debating who got Iggy, Pittsburgh or Boston. Music to my ears. "Team X will get him because they don't want Team Y to". Perfect. Outbid each other, make an offer.

But as fans, don't start thinking that we'll see the Flames hold a fire sale and stockpile first round draft picks. That's not their style, and nothing the Flames Mgmt has ever said indicates that a possibility. Which is fine with me, since just to tie back to my first paragraph, I'm not a fan of blowing it up anyways. What we will see is players moved out, potentially a 1st or two coming back, but the centre pieces of the trades will be prospects and young players that Mgmt believe can step in and make us competitive again next year. That's my guarantee based on team philosophy.

I just wanted to make this point, because I see a lot of fans saying "Blow it up, get draft picks, this year is a deep draft". I don't realistically believe that'll happen. 2 weeks ago our 1st was in play with O'Reilly, we're not going to suddenly start adding picks.

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#32 icedawg_42
March 14 2013, 11:17AM
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@the-wolf

Do you attribute any of Brunner's success and Cervenka's mediocre play to the situations they've been put into by their respective coaches? (just asking..I have my opinions on Cervenka ie:not convinced he's an NHL'er) but I've never really watched Brunner.

*EDIT: Cervenka not a HIGH END NHL'er

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#33 Kent Wilson
March 14 2013, 11:24AM
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To be fair to Cervenka, he suffered through a blot clot issue which wiped out his conditioning. As wolf points out as well, Brunner has been playing with Zetterberg/Datsyuk and getting PP minutes in Detroit.

Cervenka looks like a serviceable middlie-tier player, albeit a guy who needs to up his conditioning to stay in the line-up. Hartley doesn't like him though, so he's probably not going to get much of a chance to adjust and prove himself.

The Flames should see if there is any market at all for Cervenka at the deadline and trade him for anything they can get.

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#34 joey joe joe jr shabadoo
March 14 2013, 11:27AM
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This was eluded to last night on TSN, but it seems reasonable to think that there may be a bidding war brewing between boston and pittsburg for Iggy. One of the talking heads had mentioned that off the record a few boston players (Ference included) were lobbying for bruins management to push hard to get a deal done.

Also couldn't help but notice during the first Kings-Flames game of the year at the Saddledome Iggy fired 9 shots on goal and had a nice assist.....coincidence?

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#35 icedawg_42
March 14 2013, 11:37AM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

To be fair to Cervenka, he suffered through a blot clot issue which wiped out his conditioning. As wolf points out as well, Brunner has been playing with Zetterberg/Datsyuk and getting PP minutes in Detroit.

Cervenka looks like a serviceable middlie-tier player, albeit a guy who needs to up his conditioning to stay in the line-up. Hartley doesn't like him though, so he's probably not going to get much of a chance to adjust and prove himself.

The Flames should see if there is any market at all for Cervenka at the deadline and trade him for anything they can get.

Thats a good point - I suppose to be fair, his medical issues and newness to the NA game may contribute to his reluctance to get into puck battles

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#36 T&A4Flames
March 14 2013, 11:40AM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Ideally, yeah, but he's been playing other team's best players recently and not getting killed so...

that said, Glencross and Stempniak have been really good this season and think they have a lot to do with that. If they put Backs on that line it could be a decent shut-down type unit I think, but it's been operating well enough with Stajan as the pivot.

Either way, Stajan looks functional at the NHL level after being ground into the dirt by Sutter. His contract suddenly seems reasonable too.

Sure, I just wish he could put the puck in the net. MAybe his possessions are decent but he is taking shots that Backlund was taking last year; fluff

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#37 NateBaldwin
March 14 2013, 11:44AM
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@Kent Wilson

How do you know Hartley doesn't like him? It can't just be a narrative to explain ice time, that seems too un-Kentian for you. Is there a press pass scoop that I missed out on, I've noticed you've said this before.

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#38 T&A4Flames
March 14 2013, 11:49AM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

To be fair to Cervenka, he suffered through a blot clot issue which wiped out his conditioning. As wolf points out as well, Brunner has been playing with Zetterberg/Datsyuk and getting PP minutes in Detroit.

Cervenka looks like a serviceable middlie-tier player, albeit a guy who needs to up his conditioning to stay in the line-up. Hartley doesn't like him though, so he's probably not going to get much of a chance to adjust and prove himself.

The Flames should see if there is any market at all for Cervenka at the deadline and trade him for anything they can get.

I would give him another year. Maybe he has been sitting because he is feeling effects from the blood clot/lack of conditioning. I would like to see him on the PP. He is patient with the puck and makes good passes. I think he can still be a top 6 NHL'r.

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#39 RexLibris
March 14 2013, 11:55AM
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@the-wolf

A lot of teams courted Brunner. The Flames were probably there as well. Can't blame him for going to Detroit.

And as has been mentioned, playing behind Detroit's forward depth has helped a lot of player's careers: Cleary, Fleischmann, Samuelsson, Hudler, and so on.

There is some reasonable scuttlebutt about Omark becoming a Red Wing sometime soon. Probably for a late pick, but he was playing in Zug with Brunner and Zetterberg this season so I suspect they've seen enough to feel he has some salvageable talent. Wouldn't be the first Oiler to find traction there (Maltby and Cleary).

Saw something suggested about Hemsky and Smid or Whitney to St. Louis. Surprisingly, most observers feel the Blues need a little of everything, offense and defense. I'd be surprised if it happened, but it raises the question, if the two Alberta teams are both shopping puck-moving defensemen, what happens to the so-called buyers' bidding war? And do the Oilers or the Flames have the more attractive offer? Bouwmeester is by far a better defenseman, but the Oilers could add scoring depth in the deal. Be strange to see two teams trying to outsell each other at the trade deadline.

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#40 icedawg_42
March 14 2013, 11:56AM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

He scratches him, doesn't him play him when the game is on the line and doesn't play him against good players. Cervenka is 9th amongst regular Flames forwards in terms of ES ice time per game and Im guessing Blake Comeau will soon pass him on that list.

By "doesn't like him", I mean "doesn't rate him as very useful". I don't know how he feels about Cervenka personally, but as an NHL player, Hartley doesn't really think Cervenka can help him win hockey games. We can see that clearly in how he chooses to deploy him.

Plus he called him a stupid gunky head. Ok no he didn't

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#41 the-wolf
March 14 2013, 11:56AM
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icedawg_42 wrote:

Do you attribute any of Brunner's success and Cervenka's mediocre play to the situations they've been put into by their respective coaches? (just asking..I have my opinions on Cervenka ie:not convinced he's an NHL'er) but I've never really watched Brunner.

*EDIT: Cervenka not a HIGH END NHL'er

Oh, absolutely. Not trying to knock Cervenka, I have nothing against him, not his fault Feaster hyped him into the best player in the world outside of the NHL. And made him a center.

Just curious if anyone has any insight as to how Calgary was so focused on a player in the KHL when Brunner should've been right under their nose.

Holland stated on the Fan there were 3(?) teams after him, I don't know if Calgary was one or not. But there was lots of talk pre-hand regarding Cervenka, nothing on Brunner.

I also would offer Cervenka another 1 year. May still be something there. Can't see getting anything for him on the trade market.

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#42 RexLibris
March 14 2013, 11:57AM
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@Kent Wilson

So what is your opinion of Cervenka? Is it similar to Hartley's or do you think that he is being improperly deployed?

I haven't had a chance to see him much this year, but from what I have heard the talent is there, but conditioning is a question.

Is he an average 2nd line offensive forward on most NHL teams?

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#43 T&A4Flames
March 14 2013, 11:59AM
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the-wolf wrote:

Trade: Iginla, JBo, Cammi, Gio, Tanguay.

These will bring the most back in both quality and quantity. Calgary lacks blue chip prospects, but they also lack depth in prospects.

Keep: Stajan, Stempniak, Kipper, Glencross.

These are all serviceavle to decent vets on affordable deals who can help the team transition.

I see JBo going to Detroit, Iginla to the Pens, Gio to the Flyers. Unless Couturier is offered, but I still have trouble accepting that rumor.

I'd like to get Jarnkrok out of Detroit and the Pens have so many quality D prospects it's sickening. One of them and Bennett would be awesome.

Trading all of those that you suggest, to me, means full rebuild. I think you keep a couple. I personally would keep Tanguay and one of Gio or Jbo.

I to would keep GlenX and Stempniak; great 3rd liners. But, if the price is right you move them.

Trading Iggy, Cammi and Jbo should bring back enough to load up our future but still keep us competitive and with cap space to add actual top 6 centers. If we can't aquire centers in those trades then go hard after a guy like Flipper (Filpulla).

Tanguay- Backlund- ? Hudler- Flipper- Cervenka GlenX- Stajan (unless you find a good return for him)- Stempniak Bouma- ?- Jackman

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#44 BurningSensation
March 14 2013, 12:00PM
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Personally I would;

Target teams with prospects in the 19-22 age range, especially in the Eastern Conference. Philly, St Louis, Rangers, Pittsburgh, Washington and Detroit probably offer the most in terms of potential return.

Among the players/prospects I would target;

Couturier, B.Schenn, Kreider, JT Miller, St. Croix, Maata, Morrow, Despres, Pouliot, Bennett, Kuznetsov, Forsberg, Alzner, Tatar, Nyqvist, Brunner, Pulkinnen.

1. Trade J-Bo, in part because he brings us the most in return.

2. Trade Kiprusoff. Though it will be on reputation alone that we get anything for him.

3. Keep Iginla. At this point he's our Alfreddson, unless the offer is huge AND gives Iggy the chance to win, why bother? He wants to stay, Mgt wants him to stay, so sign him to a two year extension for $3.5M and stay. As long as he isn't making franchise player money to play on the 2nd and 3rd line, I'd rather have him than not have him.

Here's the problem though, unless you make a deal with Philly for one of B.Schenn or Couturier, there is not likely to be a future top line center prospect out there to trade for. The guys on the Rangers don't project to be 1st liners, Kuznetsov is a wing, and Pittsburgh's best prospects are on D (except Bennett). Washington might be convinced to give up Forsberg (who also plays a lot of wing), but they are currently out of the playoffs themselves and probably aren't looking to add vets for prospects. Tatar might fit the bill, but he has taken FOREVER to develop his game in the minors (that said, Detroit does this to a lot of their prospects, just not typically for as long as Tatar), and I'm not convinced his ceiling is all that much higher than where Cervenka is at for Calgary right now.

The good news is that dealing J-Bo and Kipper probably guarantees us one of; MacKinnon, Barkov, or Lindholm, all of whom project to be future top line pivots (please be Barkov, please be Barkov, please, please....)

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#45 BurningSensation
March 14 2013, 12:08PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Oh, absolutely. Not trying to knock Cervenka, I have nothing against him, not his fault Feaster hyped him into the best player in the world outside of the NHL. And made him a center.

Just curious if anyone has any insight as to how Calgary was so focused on a player in the KHL when Brunner should've been right under their nose.

Holland stated on the Fan there were 3(?) teams after him, I don't know if Calgary was one or not. But there was lots of talk pre-hand regarding Cervenka, nothing on Brunner.

I also would offer Cervenka another 1 year. May still be something there. Can't see getting anything for him on the trade market.

My understanding was Calgary went after Brunner as well as Cervenka. Apparently the Flames brass were very active in trying to find guys playing overseas who might be able to come over and help right away.

Detroit actually has a track-record of doing this going back a few years. They went hard after Fabian Brunnstrom (and lost out to Dallas, but still managed to trade for/sign/pluck off waives Brunnstrom at a later date), as well as being the team that originally brought Ville Leino over. It;s a lot easier to fit a guy into your system when your system is built around two Selke candidate centerman.

Hartley hasn't deployed Cervenka with much imagination, but I suspect that the biggest obstacle is still Cervenka's conditioning, especially with a compressed season playing so many games in a week, and coming off his injury, he just can't keep up.

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#46 NateBaldwin
March 14 2013, 12:15PM
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@Kent Wilson Oh i didn't mean to key on Hartley's measure of Cervenka's character. I just mean, couldn't it be equally likely that his usage is entirely being determined by his conditioning,

I suppose you could say 'he doesn't see him as useful' and I could say "he's limiting his use because of his poor conditioning", and were both still saying the same thing.

It's just that saying Hartley doesn't 'like' him reminded me of the loving relationship that Stajan and Sutter had.

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#47 Kent Wilson
March 14 2013, 01:08PM
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@RexLibris

He looks just okay to me. There's some skill there, but he's not that fast and isn't great defensively or in puck battles. He's probably a third line winger + 2nd unit PP guy in the NHL.

That said, he's only played 20 or so games at the NHL level. There's a chance he could improve.

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#48 the-wolf
March 14 2013, 01:16PM
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Sincity1976 wrote:

There was a couple. They loved each other. Enjoyed each others company. They wanted to stay together. The only issue is that the when they were 'togeter' she couldn't have an orgasm.

They tried ointments, coaches, equipment, etc. But nothing worked.

They didn't want to break up. But neither wanted to. So the man came up with a solution.

The woman would leave for a short while and have her orgasm with another guy. Then come back.

Does anyone really think that this chick is returning to the lower after some stud rocks her world?

Do you really think Iginla is going to return to a losing team after making a run to the cup with a real team?

If he goes he goes.

Agreed. Wishful thinking and frankly, I think the team is better off without him (not sure if I've ever mentioned that before). The team, the org, the fans, the city - they all need to move on.

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#49 Justin Azevedo
March 14 2013, 01:26PM
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Rubberbadger wrote:

I wonder if this would be the case if we did not play back up goalies every night.

wrong. once this year has a team started their backup without their starter being injured or without the opposing team being on a back to back. that goalie was bernier, who would be a starter many places in the league.

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#50 shutout
March 14 2013, 01:27PM
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redricardo wrote:

Not a fan of an Oilers style rebuild. Draft picks don't pay dividends for years, and it doesn't always work. Yeah, the Blackhawks did it. But look at the Islanders, Oilers, Blue Jackets. Sometimes you just suck for the sake of sucking.

Personally, I'm in support of doing something closer to the Senators a couple years ago, or Montreal last year. Call it a retool vs rebuild if you're a big fan of the buzzwords.

Follow a business model. Trade your expiring assets before they walk away for nothing. Sell high, a la Bouwmeester. If there's a market for a player, or a bidding war, take it. The best part about the game last night was intermission's quiz, debating who got Iggy, Pittsburgh or Boston. Music to my ears. "Team X will get him because they don't want Team Y to". Perfect. Outbid each other, make an offer.

But as fans, don't start thinking that we'll see the Flames hold a fire sale and stockpile first round draft picks. That's not their style, and nothing the Flames Mgmt has ever said indicates that a possibility. Which is fine with me, since just to tie back to my first paragraph, I'm not a fan of blowing it up anyways. What we will see is players moved out, potentially a 1st or two coming back, but the centre pieces of the trades will be prospects and young players that Mgmt believe can step in and make us competitive again next year. That's my guarantee based on team philosophy.

I just wanted to make this point, because I see a lot of fans saying "Blow it up, get draft picks, this year is a deep draft". I don't realistically believe that'll happen. 2 weeks ago our 1st was in play with O'Reilly, we're not going to suddenly start adding picks.

Very good points. The deals that we would like the Flames to make tend to all have first round draft picks in them. If I am the Flames then I am sending these draft picks to other teams to bring in some more young prospects. Need to look at filling a lineup and some cupboard space with prospects and young players (19-25). First rounders from Pittsburgh, Boston, Philadelphia, or Detroit would go to teams like Islanders (Neiderreiter), Oilers (Paajarvi), Capitals (Kuznetsov), or Lightning (Connolly). These young players plus the players you get in the actual trades like Spooner, Bennett, Nyquist, and Schroeder would fit in with Backlund, Brodie, and Baertschi to jump start the franchise.

Not rebuilding from the ground up just restructuring and renovating with younger players.

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