Flames Deadline Trade Targets

Kent Wilson
March 19 2013 11:18AM

 

 

Although we don't currently know if the Flames are going to be sellers or buyers at the deadline, we do know what the organizational needs are: younger guys, quality prospects, possession forwards (particularly centers) and draft picks. And future stars, of course.

Whether buy or sell, "go for it" or "burn it down", the club should be targeting worthwhile targets in the above categories as much as possible given organizational needs. Naturally, it's more likely the team will be selling but that certainly doesn't mean they can't be looking at NHL ready bodies coming back in some of their deals, on top of futures.

With that in mind, here's some guys I'd like to see the Flames asking about come April 3:

Michael Frolik - CHI - RW

I've been banging the drum for Frolik for a few years. He's one of those players whose SH% has cratered for whatever reason after scoring 21 goals per season as a rookie and sophomore in Florida. As a Blackhawk Frolik has scored just 9 goals on 266 shots for a personal shooting percentage of just 3.3% (!!), which is about what you could expect someone like Cory Sarich to average over his career -  so either Frolik has been grossly unlucky over the last couple seasons or he has a worse shot than a defensive-minded blueliner. 

The lack of production has seen him drift to the bottom of the rotation in Chicago, which is fair given their other options. The reason Frolik is of interest isn't just because he's a "buy low" candidate, but because his possession rates are consistently top-notch. This year, for example, he is third amongst regular Chicago forwards in terms of corsi (+16.53/60) despite the second lowest zone start ratio on the club. 

Frolik may never recover his scoring tough, although I'd be stunned if his SH% stays in the toilet forever. Even without the scoring he's a useful middle-tier forward thanks to his ability to push the play in the right direction. His lackluster point totals means he could be had (and kept) for cheap and he's only 25 years old.

Sean Couturier - C - PHI

The 8th overall pick from the 2011 entry draft has been thrown into the deep end of the pool with weights tied to his ankles by the Flyers organization. Couturier is seeing "Malhotra-like" minutes in Philly this year with an offensive zone start ratio of just 36.6%. Those are circumstances that would bury even seasoned NHLers, but Courturier is sawing off possession (-0.58 corsi/60). Unfortunately for the kid his percentages stink, particularly his on-ice SV% of 86.4%, so his counting stats are ugly resulting in steadily declining ice time. Last night, for example, he played just 8:10 against the Tampa Bay Lightning - two minutes less than tough guy Zac Rinaldo.

Couturier is only 20 years old, a capable two way forward with high-end pedigree (he scored 96 points in just over 50 games in his draft year) and a guy who could significantly improve the Flames center depth both now and for the foreseeable future. Even with his current usage Courturier probably wouldn't come cheap, but it's possible the Flames could pry him out of Philly by dangling one of their own high-end vets.

Jake Gardiner - D - TOR

The #freegardiner story has been a big one the last week or so, with the young defenders agent famously  tweeting that message last Tuesday, suggesting the player might be available in the near future. The Leafs under Carlyle have made some bizarre decisions this year, elevating marginal replacement level guys like Korbin Holzer while pushing Gardiner - who held his own in the show as a rookie last year - to the periphery.

Gardiner is 22 and a former first round pick by the Ducks back in 2008. He has 31 points in just 43 AHL games this season and projects to be a capable top-4, two defender in the NHL. Aside from TJ Brodie, the Flames lack kids on the blueline who could contribute sooner rather than later, particularly at both ends of the ice.

The Leafs organization may still be high on Gardiner despite the recent kerfuffle with his representation, but it would be worth inquiring at the very least. Besides, Toronto owes Calgary a few lopsided trades in the Flames favor at this point...

Alex Burmistrov - C - WPG

Another kid getting the stink-eye from his current team is the Jets Alex Burmistrov. Despite the second best possession rate amongst forwards on Winnipeg this year, Burmistrov has been a healthy scratch since March 10. Burmistrov isn't big, isn't a high volume shooter and can tap dance with the puck sometimes, which can drive button-down coaches a little nuts, especially when the production isn't there to justify it, which is probably why he's found his way into the dog house.

This is Burmistrov's third season in the league even though he's only 21 years old. He's never really put up big numbers in the show, but then he was rushed out of junior by the Thrashers and has never really landed in a scoring role with the club. At this point he's finally finding his legs at the NHL level, but a lack of ice time and opportunity is sinking his stock in Winnipeg.

Burmistrov might be had relatively cheaply as a result.

Other Targets

Carl Hagelin - The 24 year old Swedish winger came out of nowhere to become a top-6 forward for the Rangers last year and this season he has continued to put up good surface stats and great underlying numbers. Hagelin is an established piece in New York at this point and would be hard to pry away from the Rangers. We know that Glen Sather can be somewhat mesmerized by big names and flashy resumes, though, so if the blueshirts are looking to add a big piece for a playoff push at the deadline, maybe Feaster could get Hagelin included as the main guy coming back.

Mikhail Grabovski - Recently signed to a 5-year deal worth $5.5M year, his ice time has nevertheless fallen to just 16:42/game under Randy Carlyle. Grabovski's stats line is unappealing this season in light of his pay check, but it's mostly due to circumstances: he faces some of the toughest opposition in the league and starts in the offensive zone just 36% of the time. He is also only getting less than 2 minutes of PP time per night.

Grabs has been the Leafs best possession driver/two-way center for years and can put up better than average offense when he isn't being deployed like Sammy Pahlsson. His age (29) and 5-year contract make him more of a long-term risk, but he'd instantly fill the Flames need for another quality, top-6 pivot.

39d8109299a9795cb3b41a4e9b49d501
Former Nations Overlord. Current FN contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#101 Sobueno
March 19 2013, 11:55PM
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The first paragraph of this article is rather depressing, with this little sentence in particular in regards to what we need: "younger guys, quality prospects, possession forwards (particularly centers) and draft picks. And future stars, of course."... aka everything except maybe immediate defensive help. Which, if the game plan goes according to how many of us hope, will shortly be depleted. i.e. the future does not look very bright.

Not that this is all a revelation by any means, but seeing the long list of what we need just reminds me of our sad state.

And in general, I agree that it's likely not very feasible/realistic that we will be able to poach much in the way of high end prospects from other teams for our one or two useful vets. However, supply and demand definitely plays a role, and if the market is just right we could end up getting a steal of a deal (I'm thinking JBo on this one, seems like several teams are high on the demand side, with not many top 2 D's on the market). I also think all of the prospects listed here have the potential for being overlooked and undervalued by their respective clubs, thus making some of the proposals to acquire them more realistic if this is true.

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#102 Franko J
March 20 2013, 12:29AM
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_DBG_ wrote:

kent what do you think of JBo to Pittsburgh for Bennet and Despres? I know everyone thinks there looking at Iggy but they don't seem to have a problem with scoring and I think it would be a great fit for JBo's speed.

Bennett is the prospect / roster player I have been following all season. I truly think Bennett has superstar written all over him. Getting Bennett would surely ease the burden of replacing Iginla next season. While everyone under the sun clamoures for a top center (which I think the draft should help) he would be a compliment to Baertschi going forward.

Despres is another prospect who is just now realizing his potential. Learning to play a little nastier with good puck moving skill.

Last night I'm impressed with Dillion on Dallas and Despres plays are similar style. If the Flames could trade for these 2 young players would be coupe.

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#103 Franko J
March 20 2013, 01:24AM
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I know it is a little early to talk draft prospects and possibilities, but I say trade for picks. Especially if Calgary can pick up a couple of 2nd rounders.

As I'm no scout, but the two players who if given the opportunity the Flames should draft are: Sean Monahan (1st round) and Hudson Fasching (2nd round). Maybe I will eat my words but {mark my words } which ever team drafts these guys will be talking about them as much as Couturier has been. The Flames need size and skill and both players would definitely provide that.

Watch out for Tyler Hill (Dark horse pick). Barring injury and is able to develop further he will be sought after. I also like Jerrett Smith (D). Like TJ Brodie a player who is flying somewhat under the radar, but in a few seasons could be a very good 4 or 5 defensive player.

Going forward with the best intentions, Feaster might not be able to make the trades at the deadline which will appease the fans 100 %, at the very least planting the seeds for future trades during or before the draft will be imperative.

Trading JBO, Iggy, Kipper, etc at the deadline would make for great banter on the airwaves and fan sites, but the reality is the GM's are trading under a new context of rules in the CBA and what happened with the ROR fiasco Feaster might be a little reluctant to make major moves until he has a better idea of the trading landscape.

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#104 seve927
March 20 2013, 08:31AM
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Franko J wrote:

Bennett is the prospect / roster player I have been following all season. I truly think Bennett has superstar written all over him. Getting Bennett would surely ease the burden of replacing Iginla next season. While everyone under the sun clamoures for a top center (which I think the draft should help) he would be a compliment to Baertschi going forward.

Despres is another prospect who is just now realizing his potential. Learning to play a little nastier with good puck moving skill.

Last night I'm impressed with Dillion on Dallas and Despres plays are similar style. If the Flames could trade for these 2 young players would be coupe.

Funny. I was just coming to post about Beau Bennett. His underlying numbers look very good. He's played quite a bit with Sutter, and Sutter's been much better with him. 6 foot 2 207. I can't imagine that they'd give him up, in addition to another piece or two, but I think that would be a very good deal.

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#105 seve927
March 20 2013, 08:50AM
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The Kings have 5 very good RFA's to either sign or trade this year. I don't know how many they can keep, but any of Voynov, Martinez or Muzzin would be a nice addition to the Flames D corps.

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#106 backburner
March 20 2013, 08:59AM
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shutout wrote:

I think that you might have a better chance at getting Schenn than Couturier. Especially if you were to do something that brought back both Schenn's because Luke has a $4M price tag that too expensive for what he brings.

Bouwmeester, swap first round draft picks for Brayden and Luke Schenn. Offer to eat $1.6M of the cap hit from Bouwmeester to give the Flyers so flexibility next year when the cap is going to drop.

Iginla to Chicago for Frolik and the 2013 first round pick would need to include a prospect like McNeil who will never be a first line center but has size and will probably slot in on the third line with second line upside.

Gardiner is available in Toronto but it is going to take a type of player that the Leafs are in need of and that would be somebody like Glencross, who I do not think would want to waive his NMC to go there since he took a discount to stay here. I dont see anybody else on our roster than gets you a prospect like Gardiner.

There is no way that Pittsburgh moves Despres or Bennett. These are two young players that can already fill offensive style roles on their team and the margin of difference between them and what Iginla would bring would be fairly small. A deal for Iginla will only include a roster player if the player is a inconsequential third line player, in which case it would be better for the Flames to take two prospects and the first round pick instead of a player, prospect, and pick.

I think you're right on the money with this...

I like that J Bo for two Schenn's trade.. but I would think the Flames first pick this year would be something that they should hold on to at all costs, at least until the draft..

I still think J Bo and Ferland for Couturier and a 2nd makes sense.. I know Philly has some Cap issues but it could work..

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#107 backburner
March 20 2013, 10:07AM
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RexLibris wrote:

Okay. I. Am. Not. A. Troll.

Trust me on this. I have no desire to insult Flames fans or make them feel inferior (that's Ken King's job - ba-dum-ching!). Nor do I have any patience for those who troll on any site against any team. That includes fellow Oilers' fans who come to FN to talk trash.

And I take my Oilers' fan hat off when I post suggestions about Flames movements. I'll never tell fans here that they should just do what the Oilers did. Don't believe me, read the How-To-Rebuild series I did. It may not have been the best way to go about it, but it was an exercise in avoiding a burn-it-to-the-ground rebuild that many here feel represents the Oilers' way.

So here is where I'm coming from when I say that it would take Baertschi + to pique Holmgren's interest.

Holmgren has no urgent need to move Couturier. Kent is absolutely right to suggest targeting him based on the Flames needs. However, what do the Flames have that would interest Holmgren. If you say Iginla you are wrong. Bouwmeester? Not enough.

Iginla is a rental. The team that gets him gets him for, what, six weeks at best? Flames fans value Iginla based on what he has done. Past tense. I get that, but it means something between diddly and squat to the purchasing GM. He only cares what Iginla will do. Future tense, and a short-term future at that.

Bouwmeester is a terrific #2 defenseman. He is exemplary at taking the puck and moving it up ice efficiently. He is what many had hoped Ryan Whitney would become. He is not Ryan Suter, nor Shea Weber. Not Drew Doughty, nor Ekman-Larsson, nor Keith or Seabrook. He has one year left on a large contract and that limits the buyers. St. Louis is a great place for him to land, but if St. Louis is one of the only buyers, and Jay Feaster is interested in selling, ask yourself: how much leverage does Feaster really have there?

As Kurt has already noted, there is a strong tendency on comment boards to suggest that a team need simply acquire the young stud prospects of another team by way of trade. The details are murky and the suggestions almost always overvalue the assets of the home side. Sadly the nadir of the logic provided is usually summed up with the words "get 'er done".

Let's use the case of Iginla again. On nearly any team that has a really good chance of winning a Stanley Cup, their lines are so deep and talented that Iginla would likely be playing 2nd line, or in one or two cases even 3rd line, minutes. Not because he doesn't have talent, but because the talent that is ahead of him on that team is there for a reason. How much would any of those teams give up to add a 35 year old scoring winger who is going to slot in at a depth position? Would any Flames fan be happy if their GM emptied the cupboard for that player as a rental? I suspect not.

Now here is the part that will really offend you all, but it comes from a place of personal experience that I feel needs to be passed on. It was only after seeing what a talented team actually looked like that I realized just how bad things had gotten for the Oilers. I'd watch Chris Pronger play and say "oh, so that's how its supposed to be done". And afterwards it made all of the deficiencies in the roster that much more apparent. This is why outside observers are often so critical of struggling teams: because they can see the best and the rest, and the contrast can be stark.

I've been watching the Flames games for a few seasons now and I've seen a recurring theme: things have to go just right for a win. The big guns have to fire, the goaltending needs to be solid, and the game plan played to a tee, in order to beat all but the worst teams in the league (yes, like the Oilers).

I've seen that before. When a team relies on that many factors to go their way, they are living on borrowed time.

So then back to the trade proposals. If Philadelphia is loitering in the bottom of the standings, looking at acquiring a top prospect this draft, why on earth would they want to give away a future building block for one year of Bouwmeester? Couturier would garner a far bigger package from other teams if Holmgren were to ask around, especially if he becomes part of a larger roster changeover that would complement the addition of a Darnell Nurse or other such prospect.

The Flames don't have the assets to offer aside from Baertschi and a whole lot of enticing 1st round picks in the future. That is what other GMs will ask for, because they foresee a bleak future for the Flames and would gladly take a piece of the draft rewards. So, the options then become to either a.) trade futures for 20-somethings and risk giving up high draft picks or b.) stick it out and collect your very own group of 20-something prospects that other teams may come to covet.

The veteran angle is largely a non-starter, outside of a potential Iginla return or Bouwmeester move. In either case, I'd ballpark a Dustin Penner-esque return in a 1st round pick, a conditional depth pick, and a half-decent NHL prospect as reasonable.

Remember when the rumours flew that the Kings were offering Brayden Schenn and, perhaps, a 1st round pick for Iginla. Iginla was two years younger and had two more years on his contract. Why would he be worth more today?

Now, as has been mentioned earlier, let's revisit what it took to get Schenn (and Simmonds) out of L.A. It meant giving up Mike Richards. The Flames don't have a Mike Richards to offer up. Baertchi + is as close as you come.

For what it is worth, I think Flames fans would be better served if Iginla just re-signed and saved the city the trauma of seeing him leave. I'd love to see him do what Fleury ought to have; play every game of his career in that one jersey.

There, I had to go back to an old-school manifesto post to cover it all, but I hope I've explained my reasoning.

I just want to say Rex, that your opinion is reasonable, and I know that your not trolling.. but I do disagree on a few points. Mainly J Bo's worth, but also a little on Iggy's.

Let's get a few things straight about J Bo's value and put it to rest:

1) J Bo's contract is pricey, it's not great, but its comparable, HE IS NOT OVERPAID. (Dan Boyle, Dion Phaneuf, Kimmo Timonen, Brian Campbell, Mike Green, Brent Burns) all have comparable cap hits for their skill levels, #1/2 Defenseman.

2) Blues, Flyers, Kings, Wings and Pens are all Contenders (with the exception of maybe Flyers) who are looking for a legit #1/2 Defenseman, so the value for J Bo will be slightly higher then what would be the norm, (as there is a shortage of them available). An elite NHL ready prospect, or more likely a late 1st rounder and a top prospect is the asking price. (period) no matter what you think he should be worth.

3) Any team can do a patch job if they don't want to risk losing there youth, and the Flames DON'T have to move J Bo. However, a team like the Blues, who have a plethora of young talent, and can go deep in the playoffs, would easily take the risk and pay the asking price.

On Iggy..

The Mike Richards comparable is quite honestly, offensive.

Iggy is six years older, but I wouldn't put them in the same ball park.

a)Mike Richards will never get close to 500 career goals, even with the help of Carter or Kopitar, Iggy has never had a legit #1 Center.

b)Even now, they have the same amount of points... Iggy is not the same player he was at 29 years old, but he can still be a game changer just as much if not more than Mike Richards.

c)Just because Iggy has been on a slumping team over the last few years doesn't make it completely his fault. I doubt Mike Richards has ever had to deal with that kind of pressure. Penner? Please.

I would say that a fair comparable would be Daniel Alfredsson, who is 5 years older than Iggy and still going strong.

What would Alfredsson have been worth 5 years ago?

Iggy is not just a typical "rental" player. I think he is being WAY UNDERVALUED!!!

An elite prospect and a 1st round pick minimum, no question.

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#108 T&A4Flames
March 20 2013, 10:51AM
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@backburner

Very nice. Don't forget to, that a lot of Iggy's production was achieved during the 'dead puck' era.

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#109 the-wolf
March 20 2013, 10:58AM
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backburner wrote:

I just want to say Rex, that your opinion is reasonable, and I know that your not trolling.. but I do disagree on a few points. Mainly J Bo's worth, but also a little on Iggy's.

Let's get a few things straight about J Bo's value and put it to rest:

1) J Bo's contract is pricey, it's not great, but its comparable, HE IS NOT OVERPAID. (Dan Boyle, Dion Phaneuf, Kimmo Timonen, Brian Campbell, Mike Green, Brent Burns) all have comparable cap hits for their skill levels, #1/2 Defenseman.

2) Blues, Flyers, Kings, Wings and Pens are all Contenders (with the exception of maybe Flyers) who are looking for a legit #1/2 Defenseman, so the value for J Bo will be slightly higher then what would be the norm, (as there is a shortage of them available). An elite NHL ready prospect, or more likely a late 1st rounder and a top prospect is the asking price. (period) no matter what you think he should be worth.

3) Any team can do a patch job if they don't want to risk losing there youth, and the Flames DON'T have to move J Bo. However, a team like the Blues, who have a plethora of young talent, and can go deep in the playoffs, would easily take the risk and pay the asking price.

On Iggy..

The Mike Richards comparable is quite honestly, offensive.

Iggy is six years older, but I wouldn't put them in the same ball park.

a)Mike Richards will never get close to 500 career goals, even with the help of Carter or Kopitar, Iggy has never had a legit #1 Center.

b)Even now, they have the same amount of points... Iggy is not the same player he was at 29 years old, but he can still be a game changer just as much if not more than Mike Richards.

c)Just because Iggy has been on a slumping team over the last few years doesn't make it completely his fault. I doubt Mike Richards has ever had to deal with that kind of pressure. Penner? Please.

I would say that a fair comparable would be Daniel Alfredsson, who is 5 years older than Iggy and still going strong.

What would Alfredsson have been worth 5 years ago?

Iggy is not just a typical "rental" player. I think he is being WAY UNDERVALUED!!!

An elite prospect and a 1st round pick minimum, no question.

Define "elite" prospect. No chance does Iginla get you that. And Mike Richards plays a 200' game. Iginla doesn't even know what his goaltender looks like.

I stand by JBo as a #2 D.

I stand by going after 2nd tier prospects who have great upside but who aren't considered elite or sure bets. Jarnkrok and Nyqvist, hopefully, are still available.

Sadly, I must admit Shutout is correct and that Bennett would probably have to be struck from my list. At this point moving him for Iginla would be counter productive given age and contract.

In fact, I'm not sure where Iginla would even fit in Pittsburgh anymore. Their lines are all rolling so well. Whre do you put him? Too bad, because they're so loaded with D prospects that getting one of them would be our best bet (Pouliott straight up and I'd be happy).

I fear that Calgary has simply waited too long in moving Iginla. Largely due to the same mentality that has fans thinking a 1-dimensional soon to be 36 year old is worth an elite prosepct and 1st round pick. Besides, remember that there's no guarantee Iginla re-signs with the team that trades for him.

I also wish management and fans alike would get away from focusing on quantity (too often a large pile of nothing) and focus on just getting one quality prospect who is close to stepping in. That's the problem with getting Bennett, he's already made the jump.

Btw, when Rex made the Penner comparison I'm pretty sure he was talking about the return itself and not comparing the 2 players in their respective primes. Penner wasn't 35 when that trade was made.

The end is nigh. Next year we go over the cliff and the year after we're the Oilers.

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#110 RexLibris
March 20 2013, 11:30AM
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@Baalzamon

lol, yeah, that was a bad one, and I rightly took it on the chin for the suggestion.

But then take my experience as a cautionary tale.

I overvalued the market worth of the Oilers' assets and overestimated the position of weakness of Don Maloney.

Fan bias does indeed strike us all. Knowing that, though, and trying to make allowances for it is the point I'm trying to get across.

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#111 backburner
March 20 2013, 12:15PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Define "elite" prospect. No chance does Iginla get you that. And Mike Richards plays a 200' game. Iginla doesn't even know what his goaltender looks like.

I stand by JBo as a #2 D.

I stand by going after 2nd tier prospects who have great upside but who aren't considered elite or sure bets. Jarnkrok and Nyqvist, hopefully, are still available.

Sadly, I must admit Shutout is correct and that Bennett would probably have to be struck from my list. At this point moving him for Iginla would be counter productive given age and contract.

In fact, I'm not sure where Iginla would even fit in Pittsburgh anymore. Their lines are all rolling so well. Whre do you put him? Too bad, because they're so loaded with D prospects that getting one of them would be our best bet (Pouliott straight up and I'd be happy).

I fear that Calgary has simply waited too long in moving Iginla. Largely due to the same mentality that has fans thinking a 1-dimensional soon to be 36 year old is worth an elite prosepct and 1st round pick. Besides, remember that there's no guarantee Iginla re-signs with the team that trades for him.

I also wish management and fans alike would get away from focusing on quantity (too often a large pile of nothing) and focus on just getting one quality prospect who is close to stepping in. That's the problem with getting Bennett, he's already made the jump.

Btw, when Rex made the Penner comparison I'm pretty sure he was talking about the return itself and not comparing the 2 players in their respective primes. Penner wasn't 35 when that trade was made.

The end is nigh. Next year we go over the cliff and the year after we're the Oilers.

Well, I could define "elite" in a number of different ways.. but I think we could just use our imaginations. I'm not saying "Yakupov", but Sven Baertchi, Tyler Toffoli, Ty Rattie, Ryan Spooner, Morgan Reilly, Brayden Schenn, Sean Couturier, or Ryan O'Reilly...

A 20 yo who's on the Cusp of being an NHL regular, put up great numbers in Junior, and has potential to be a 30+ goal scorer...

The draft pick would most likely be conditional on re-signing or a Stanley Cup...

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#112 RexLibris
March 20 2013, 01:26PM
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@the-wolf

Correct. I was definitely not comparing Penner to Iginla. I may be critical here, but I'm not suicidal.

Interesting twist of history though that Penner, for all his faults, has managed to be around for two Stanley Cup rings.

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#113 backburner
March 20 2013, 01:45PM
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@the-wolf

Sorry just had to add your comparison with Richards and Iginla is weak... you should provide some advanced stats to make your point, because as far as I've seen, their HARD Qoc stats are 4.1 for Iggy, and -5.8 for Mike Richards... although I don't claim to really know anything about advanced stats..

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#114 backburner
March 20 2013, 01:58PM
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RexLibris wrote:

Correct. I was definitely not comparing Penner to Iginla. I may be critical here, but I'm not suicidal.

Interesting twist of history though that Penner, for all his faults, has managed to be around for two Stanley Cup rings.

Same with Cory Stillman... bastard.

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#115 RexLibris
March 20 2013, 02:58PM
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@backburner

Mike Richards isn't in the same category as Iginla. My mentioning him is in relationship to the trade that saw Brayden Schenn go the other way.

If we were debating whether a 29 year old Iginla were worth more or less by trade than a similarly-aged Richards, well, we wouldn't really be debating. But as I have said before, Iginla's value in the eyes of fans and some media is in what he has done.

Let's put it this way, if you are looking at buying a car, does it increase or decrease the value of the vehicle when the mileage is high? Iginla's odometer is climbing awfully high, and given his predilection for Calgary many GMs may be leery of a chance to re-sign him.

I think the-wolf is on to something when he says that the Flames would be best in asking for one very good thing rather than a basket of really good things. It may provide more leverage in negotiations, though it does place an immense amount of pressure on that one prospect or player coming to the Flames. Not sure that is Feaster's modus operandi, though.

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#116 Purple Hazze
March 20 2013, 03:28PM
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A lot of talk here about how we have nothing to offer Philly to pry Couturier out of there, well how about if we agree to take that monkey off their back named bryzgalov.

Philly is totally regretting that deal, yes they could buy him out this summer but thats still going to cost them big dough. So how about a trade along the lines of:

Couturier/Bryzgalov for Kipper/Jbo/and any prospect other than Baertschi or Johnny hockey, lets say Bill Arnold, Reinhart, or Granlund.

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#117 backburner
March 20 2013, 03:42PM
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RexLibris wrote:

Mike Richards isn't in the same category as Iginla. My mentioning him is in relationship to the trade that saw Brayden Schenn go the other way.

If we were debating whether a 29 year old Iginla were worth more or less by trade than a similarly-aged Richards, well, we wouldn't really be debating. But as I have said before, Iginla's value in the eyes of fans and some media is in what he has done.

Let's put it this way, if you are looking at buying a car, does it increase or decrease the value of the vehicle when the mileage is high? Iginla's odometer is climbing awfully high, and given his predilection for Calgary many GMs may be leery of a chance to re-sign him.

I think the-wolf is on to something when he says that the Flames would be best in asking for one very good thing rather than a basket of really good things. It may provide more leverage in negotiations, though it does place an immense amount of pressure on that one prospect or player coming to the Flames. Not sure that is Feaster's modus operandi, though.

You have to go by performance and experience also, not just mileage.. although I see your point.

Look at the demand for Shane Doan last year as a UFA... Feaster has to hit this one out of the park to justify trading the Captain.

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#118 Baalzamon
March 20 2013, 03:57PM
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@RexLibris

"I think the-wolf is on to something when he says that the Flames would be best in asking for one very good thing rather than a basket of really good things."

And this is where the true question lies. The idea of looking for a package that includes this, this, this, this etc. works in theory. but a lot of people were underwhelmed with the return Columbus got for Nash. They asked for two top 6 forwards, a 1st rounder, and a top prospect. They got that, but probably not what they were expecting/hoping. (related: Feaster is, thankfully (apparently) looking for less for Iginla than Howson was for Nash. Which is possibly a sign that the Flames' brass aren't completely out of their minds).

Theoretically, targeting a specific piece is more likely to net you what you want... but you also run the risk (as Rex said) of that player not living up to expectations--and where do you go from there? You also run the risk of missing on some of the value of your player.

So. What do you do? My vote would be for targeting, actually--though I'd likely want a 1st round pick too. You know, because the Flames have basically never had 2 1sts in the same draft before.

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#119 the-wolf
March 20 2013, 04:42PM
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Purple Hazze wrote:

A lot of talk here about how we have nothing to offer Philly to pry Couturier out of there, well how about if we agree to take that monkey off their back named bryzgalov.

Philly is totally regretting that deal, yes they could buy him out this summer but thats still going to cost them big dough. So how about a trade along the lines of:

Couturier/Bryzgalov for Kipper/Jbo/and any prospect other than Baertschi or Johnny hockey, lets say Bill Arnold, Reinhart, or Granlund.

Inventive, I like that. Not sure I want that contract or player per se, but definitely a clever way to get what you really want (SC).

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#120 Kevin R
March 20 2013, 11:09PM
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Purple Hazze wrote:

A lot of talk here about how we have nothing to offer Philly to pry Couturier out of there, well how about if we agree to take that monkey off their back named bryzgalov.

Philly is totally regretting that deal, yes they could buy him out this summer but thats still going to cost them big dough. So how about a trade along the lines of:

Couturier/Bryzgalov for Kipper/Jbo/and any prospect other than Baertschi or Johnny hockey, lets say Bill Arnold, Reinhart, or Granlund.

Was talking about that with buddies last night. Bryz really isnt that bad of a goalie, he was good in Phoenix, could be worth a shot. Thing one fellow brought up which I never really thought of is that the chances JBO waive to go to Philly when their playoff chances are worse than Calgarys this year may not happen. He wants playoffs & may be as hard assed as Iggy about where he will waive to go to play to.

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