Monday Random Thoughts - Iginla's Last Hurrah and Other Things

Kent Wilson
March 25 2013 11:45AM

 

We're less than a week away from the trade deadline and it's more than probable that Jarome Iginla will be elsewhere come April the 4th. Last night was a bittersweet moment for Flames fans, with the captain scoring the game winning goal and Miikka Kiprusoff putting together his first true "stolen game" performance of the season. Shades of 2004. 

Of course, last night was also a stark illustration of how far back the team is of the true contenders in the conference. Despite being the rested team on home ice, the Flames were handily outshot and outchanced at even strength and it was only a drastic difference in goaltending that preserved the win. On a more general note, after a very strong first 10-games the Flames possession numbers have steadily eroded to the degree they are now in the red and just clear of the bottom third of the league. 

- By the way, the Blues roster is about $12 million cheaper than the Flames in terms of cap space. Calgary's perpetually underwhelming results aren't the only reason things have to change around here - it's the fact that the budget space is being used in a grossly inefficient manner. Naturally, having next to no kids (outside of Backlund and Brodie) providing value during their cheap seasons has something to do with this.

- Related: it's remarkable the difference really good goaltending can make in the perception of a team's global performance. According to Justin Azevedo's chance count, Calgary gave up as many or more chances to the Blues as they did in each of their previous two losses to Columbus and Nashville, but they didn't seem even half as incompetent because the puck didn't end up in the net as often.

- Obviously the dominant topic this week is going to be whether or not Jarome is moved. Today fresh rumors and speculation are starting to crop up, saying Iginla has "other" teams on his list including Detroit, Anaheim and maybe the Rangers. Iginla's going to be the big deadline story not only here but throughout the league, so we can all expect a lot of stuff to be thrown at the wall until something happens. The return most often being bandied about, though, is a first round pick, a roster player and a prospect.

Here at FN we'll concentrate on the original 4 teams listed by Renaud and Dreger: Boston, Pittsburgh, Chicago and LA. It's less likely Iginla ends up as a Penguin now that Pittsburgh has acquired Morrow from Dallas, but I wouldn't say it's impossible: the Pens still have a lot of cap space, a spot beside Crosby on the first line and they didn't surrender a first rounder to Dallas for Morrow, which is going to be one of the key pieces in any Jarome deal I imagine. If they decide Morrow isn't enough or they want more firepower for the stretch, Pittsburgh still has a few assets to make it happen.

As for the other clubs, I am gathering intel from fans/writers in the know in each market. I will publish their thoughts on the manner in the next day or so.

- I've been asked who else I think the Flames should shop at the deadline. As most around here know, I'm not a proponent of simply liquidating the entire roster, so my list is probably shorter than expected...

I would shop marginal assets like Sarich, Babchuk, Butler and Comeau in the hopes of getting rid of at least one or two of them for picks. Roman Cervenka is another name I'd put up for auction, if only because the current coach doesn't seem to like him too much and I find it unlikely he'll choose to re-sign in Calgary given how little he's been used here. I would imagine at least Dallas would be willing to move a pick or two to reunite Cervenka with Jagr, especially since they now have a Morrow-sized hole in their lineup. 

- Sven Baertschi has started to put up points in Abbotsford again after a bit of a slow return (four in his last three games). He now has 22 in 27 games, for a point-per-game pace of 0.81. The closest behind him is Krys Kolanos (0.72) and team leading point getter Ben Walter, who has 38 points in 59 games (0.64 PPG). Things more or less fall off a cliff after that.

The Heat are struggling to remain in the playoff picture of late. Their league leading goaltending has come back down to earth, but their offense has never recovered after going in hibernation some time late in November. They currently sit in 11th place in the Western Conference with 69 points and every team behind them currently has at least one game in hand. Unless they hit a momentous hot streak to end the year, Abby will be golfing with the parent club in April.

- Probably the most ironic thing that can happen is the org deals Iginla but the goaltending finally recovers for the final 10 or so games and the club goes on its first extended winning streak. I don't consider this likely, but it's certainly possible - even though I expected Kipper to not be great this year, I'd be very surprised if he's actually way below replacement level as his numbers currently indicate. If he recovers at all before the season ends (like he managed last night) the Flames will win a few more games, even if Iginla has been auctioned off.

Of course, if that indeed happens it will not be evidence that "Iginla was the problem" or some other such nonsense.

Other Stuff - New Sponsor Giveaway!

On the site news front, we'd like to announce WebSim Hockey as a new sponsor. You'll see their banners popping up here and across the network for the next little while.

WebSim is kinda like the ultimate "Be a GM" mode - you get to make player and roster decisions, update coaching strategies and manage the business and financial aspects of running a team. They also include "player evolution" so rosters "develop" like real players rather than remain static.

Anyways, on top of buyng some banner ads here, WebSim also threw in 12 free one-season subscriptions for Nations readers. The first 12 folks to email wsh.info@websimhockey.com with "Nations promo" in the subject line or body of the email will claim a free season with WebSim. The give-away is first come, first-serve so don't wait around to grab it.

- On a personal note, I will be contributing "Sunday Ramblings" to Dobber Hockey once a week going forward. I used to write from a fantasy hockey perspective back in the day, so this outlet gives me an opportunity to do that again. Stop by and check it out every Saturday night/Sunday morning will you?

39d8109299a9795cb3b41a4e9b49d501
Former Nations Overlord. Current FN contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#1 icedawg_42
March 25 2013, 03:14PM
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OMG. Everyone is saying Feaster is targeting Malcolm Subban. I no longer want to see Boston as a trading partner. No No NO NO! Idiot.

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#2 Emir
March 25 2013, 03:24PM
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@icedawg_42

For the love of god I hope not. Yes. I'd rather see iggy walk as a ufa than trade him for subban.

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#3 jeremywilhelm
March 25 2013, 11:58AM
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I emailed them. We'll see how this sim software is.

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#4 mattyc
March 25 2013, 12:14PM
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Doug Murray to Pens for a pair of 2nds. Sounds like they're probably out of the Iginla market now... but they do still have their 1st round pick.

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#5 beloch
March 25 2013, 12:17PM
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I have a contract question re: Iginla.

Some teams may think they're a real contender and be willing to pay a lot for an edge, but a first-round pick plus change is still really steep if you have no assurance Iginla will return next season! Is there a way to structure a deal with Feaster such that Iginla does not have the option to return to Calgary? (I'm assuming that returning will be his preference, since he could potentially avoid uprooting his family if he's gone only until the end of the playoffs.)

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#6 icedawg_42
March 25 2013, 12:24PM
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Blah Blah - trade Iginla.

yadda yadda - first round pick

what we REALLY wanna know is, will WebSim's adverts feature hot chicks with big boobs??

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#8 dotfras
March 25 2013, 12:36PM
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Does Pittsburgh even have the cap to acquire Iginla now?

Was nice to see Iggy get the game winner last night - for so many years he's carried the team on his back - wherever he ends up - it'll be great to see that burden lifted off his shoulders. Definitely will be cheering for whatever team he ends up on.

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#9 Parallex
March 25 2013, 12:44PM
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dotfras wrote:

Does Pittsburgh even have the cap to acquire Iginla now?

Was nice to see Iggy get the game winner last night - for so many years he's carried the team on his back - wherever he ends up - it'll be great to see that burden lifted off his shoulders. Definitely will be cheering for whatever team he ends up on.

If a non-conditional pick is part of the equation I'll be cheering against whatever team he's on. Not that I wouldn't be happy to see him hoist the Cup (even with someone else) but I'd be happier to see the Flames get a better asset.

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#10 Scary Gary
March 25 2013, 12:47PM
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mattyc wrote:

Doug Murray to Pens for a pair of 2nds. Sounds like they're probably out of the Iginla market now... but they do still have their 1st round pick.

That seemed like an overpay IMO.

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#11 ?
March 25 2013, 12:56PM
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@Scary Gary

I totally agree. Doug Murray is no longer a top 4 defenceman in my book. Sure he's big and tough, but he has limited mobility and there's a lot of mileage on that 33 year old frame, especially when you consider all of the blocked shots, hits, elbows, sticks, etc. that the guy's taken. I don't see much difference between Murray now and the Robyn Regehr the Flames traded away a couple years ago. Is Murray a better option than a guy like Sarich? Probably, but he's not worth 2 second rounders.

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#12 icedawg_42
March 25 2013, 01:01PM
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Via Twitter: ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun More on Murray deal: the 2nd pick in 2014 based on Pitt winning 2 playoff rounds OR resigning him and if neither occurs, it's a 3rd in 2014

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#13 gotommygo
March 25 2013, 01:06PM
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Somebody mentioned in the last thread that Iginla's teammates saved the puck after his goal last night. I didn't see it and haven't noticed in mentioned in the media. Anyone else see that?

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#14 meat1
March 25 2013, 01:16PM
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Two things about these moves by the Pens:

1. This doesn't guarantee they are out of the Jarome sweepstakes, although I doubt now that he goes there.

2. I think this has really put pressure on teams like Boston, LA, Anaheim, Montreal, Chicago, St. Louis, etc to answer their moves.

Come on Feaster. The time is now.

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#15 mattyc
March 25 2013, 01:18PM
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@Scary Gary

Yeah, Murray's got no wheels left.

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#16 Ravage
March 25 2013, 01:25PM
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I think Pittsburgh is a long shot for Iginla now. Chicago and possibly Boston as they both have plenty of young NHL talent and it wouldn't be a huge issue if they let a good prospect or two go in order to add Iggy. At this point my selection is Chicago (though last week I was sure it would be the Pens).

I agree with those that think Shero's latest moves could kickstart more action on the trade front...and if Iggy goes it remains to be seen who else could be on their way out afterwards.

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#17 icedawg_42
March 25 2013, 01:30PM
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Kent - how does the value of the Morrow trade line up for you. Has Joe Morrow got the kind of ceiling that makes this move worthwhile for Dallas? I agree that the Murray trade was overpayment (the conditional pick notwithstanding) - im just trying to get a feel for the market and potential return for Iggy and JBo. I still think they both get moved.

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#18 backburner
March 25 2013, 02:04PM
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gotommygo wrote:

Somebody mentioned in the last thread that Iginla's teammates saved the puck after his goal last night. I didn't see it and haven't noticed in mentioned in the media. Anyone else see that?

From what I saw nobody collected the puck, that's bs... but I could be wrong.

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#19 beloch
March 25 2013, 02:06PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

The other team can make a pick conditional on Iginla re-signing with them.

So, if you were Feaster, would you prioritize an offer with the best picks/prospects conditional on Iginla resigning with the other team, or would you go for a deal without that condition? Can Calgary even hope to get an unconditional first rounder?

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#20 Robert Johnson
March 25 2013, 02:23PM
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Iggy to Hockey Town!

Kenny Holland is a shrewd GM and I am positive he can fleece this lame cast of characters in Calgary.

Still laughing at the Flickers fan who suggested the Wings are where Calgary was two years ago. One of the DUMBEST statements I have ever read.

The Drive is Alive for 22 straight playoff appearances and Iggy would certainly help the cause!

Let the fleecing begin.....

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#21 backburner
March 25 2013, 02:31PM
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Here are some recent trades that are comparable to Iggy... I'm not saying he's worth what Rick Nash is worth, but it should give you an idea..

Rick Nash - Erixon, Dubinsky, Anisimov, and a first.(the most)

Jeff Carter - Jack Johnson and a first.(more likely)

Brendan Morrow + 3rd - Joe Morrow and a 5th (the least)

Iggy is somewhere in the middle...

Jarome Iginla + 3rd - 2 prospects and a pick or prospect, and a first Flames might also have to take a contract back.

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#22 vowswithin
March 25 2013, 02:41PM
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I am feeling a little nervous with this one... Sure hope they can get it done, and make it a trade that doesn't come back to haunt us..

Time is now, before others are out of the race.

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#23 RKD
March 25 2013, 02:43PM
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I think Pittsburgh may not be the front runner but maybe the asking price is too steep. Feaster is asking for a minimum of 2 prospects plus a pick. It might come down to LA, Boston, or Chicago now.

Also, Feaster has made both Cory Sarich and Anton Babchuk available and are being actively shopped. There's gotta be a taker for the teams that don't land the big d names.

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#24 gotommygo
March 25 2013, 02:55PM
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backburner wrote:

From what I saw nobody collected the puck, that's bs... but I could be wrong.

Yeah, if that was the case, the press would have had a field day with it.

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#25 seve927
March 25 2013, 03:29PM
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@icedawg_42

Name one person who is saying that, and what are his/her credentials.

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#26 mk
March 25 2013, 03:29PM
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Kent - what are your thoughts on Tyler Myers?

There are rumours he's on the trading block. Is he worth his contract? What assets would he worth in a trade?

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#27 RKD
March 25 2013, 03:30PM
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icedawg_42 wrote:

OMG. Everyone is saying Feaster is targeting Malcolm Subban. I no longer want to see Boston as a trading partner. No No NO NO! Idiot.

If that's true, it might justify him trading Kipper or because Kipper has told the Flames he is retiring after this season. Then they would have Subban, Ramo, Ortio, and Taylor. I hope Feaster doesn't screw this trade up.

He traded Brad Richards for Mike Smith, Jeff Halpern, Jussi Jokinen and a 4th round selection in 2009. We all know he traded Reggie, Kotalik and a 2nd round pick for Paul Bryon and Chris Butler.

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#28 slambam
March 25 2013, 03:55PM
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Anyone else thinking the Penguins only picked up Morrow and Murray knowing they might be picking up Iggy too. Gotta have someone to fill the holes left by player(s) going to the flames... hmmmm... now theres a thought.

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#29 Colin
March 25 2013, 04:05PM
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I can see why the Flames wants are two prospects and a draft pick, because they have to many contracts (49) to make a deal otherwise, for the most part, adding anyone to the Iggy deal probably doesn't increase the value unless its a select group of players, so there is no way to realy lighten that contract amount.

Also, if Douglas Murry is some how worth almost 2 2nds, SURELY Babchuk or Sarich could be worth a 5th or 6th round pick and apparently both are available.

Also I think Iggy gets a Propsect, a first and a roster player, but a third liner with possible second line potential. I don't think the propsepect included in the deal will be a teams best either, maybe a high end prospect, but not a teams best.

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#30 SmellOfVictory
March 25 2013, 04:07PM
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slambam wrote:

Anyone else thinking the Penguins only picked up Morrow and Murray knowing they might be picking up Iggy too. Gotta have someone to fill the holes left by player(s) going to the flames... hmmmm... now theres a thought.

That is a good possibility. If they were offering a package including Kennedy, they'd want someone to fill his role in the bottom 6. I doubt it's related at all to Murray, however; Despres is the only roster defenceman that the Flames should realistically be interested in, and I don't think there's any way in hell he's being offered.

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#31 Justin Azevedo
March 25 2013, 04:15PM
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mk wrote:

Kent - what are your thoughts on Tyler Myers?

There are rumours he's on the trading block. Is he worth his contract? What assets would he worth in a trade?

not worth his contract. at this point, the defensive equivalent of steve mason.

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#32 Justin Azevedo
March 25 2013, 04:16PM
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seve927 wrote:

Name one person who is saying that, and what are his/her credentials.

gilbertson, dreger, haggerty, luedeke.

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#33 Scary Gary
March 25 2013, 04:17PM
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Robert Johnson wrote:

Iggy to Hockey Town!

Kenny Holland is a shrewd GM and I am positive he can fleece this lame cast of characters in Calgary.

Still laughing at the Flickers fan who suggested the Wings are where Calgary was two years ago. One of the DUMBEST statements I have ever read.

The Drive is Alive for 22 straight playoff appearances and Iggy would certainly help the cause!

Let the fleecing begin.....

ohhhh name calling, mature. Sir Robert can't argue with the facts that:

- Lidstrom has retired. You could make an arguement that, with the exception of the first year of their current streak, Lidstrom was the driving force behind the wings making the playoffs, it would only be fitting now that he'e retired for that streak to end.

- Datsyuk and Zetterburg have begun their inevitable production decline. At 34 and 32 respectively, they point per game average guys but are no longer the dominant forces night in night out that they were. Over the years the cumulative injuries from an 82 game regular season, then a fairly long playoff run have mounted.

- After those two big guns the talent level drops off. Franzen is 33 and Filpula is line for a nice raise. The more concerning fact should be their inability to land the big free agents they'd need to fill holes.

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#34 negrilcowboy
March 25 2013, 04:22PM
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malcom subban, yikes thats a turrible move. someone please alert Flyin J Feasta that its PK Subban that is the talent not Malcolm.

sarich and badchuk to the bentley Generals for a 6 pack of Boxer and some Claresholm 7 11 chicken strips.

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#35 Sobueno
March 25 2013, 04:24PM
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I wonder whether Cammalleri is on the trading block? I was listening to the team 1040 in Vancouver earlier, and they were discussing targets for the Canucks. As they figured Iginla would be too expensive and likely not going to a Western team, they did mention Cammi as a potential target. So sounds like he might be garnering some interest from teams unable to land a "big fish" like Iggy anyways.

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#36 Justin Azevedo
March 25 2013, 04:31PM
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@Sobueno

vancouver's pretty tight up against the cap the next couple of years - for that to work the flames would have to take back/eat about 4 million in salary for a guy who's at a .82 ppg rate. that'd be 3rd best on the nucks.

it's even worse next year - the nucks have 3.8 million in space and only 14 players under contract.

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#37 vowswithin
March 25 2013, 04:35PM
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What about something like Iggy for Tyler Toffoli and Jake Muzzin. No picks

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#38 schevvy
March 25 2013, 04:43PM
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Semin just got 5 years at 7M. Another name off the market.

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#39 Justin Azevedo
March 25 2013, 04:52PM
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schevvy wrote:

Semin just got 5 years at 7M. Another name off the market.

damn.

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#40 negrilcowboy
March 25 2013, 04:57PM
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schevvy wrote:

Semin just got 5 years at 7M. Another name off the market.

ufa class is dwindling fast, would have to say the canes do have some punch up front.

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#41 jeremywilhelm
March 25 2013, 05:01PM
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So i emailed this websim guys, probably the first one, and not even a reply email back. WTH KENT!!!??

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#42 the-wolf
March 25 2013, 05:25PM
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I've heard the asking price has changed to 2 prospects.

Hockey central at noon basically, in a non-direct but fairly obvious way to me, accused Edwards of continual interference. Ditto Dallas' owner.

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#44 SadFlamesFan
March 25 2013, 05:32PM
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I don't think the return on any Iggy trade will be that great. As a general rule, fans overvalue players that play for their own team. I think Iggy could help as a secondary scorer on some clubs but that isn't the sort of player that lands you what Uncle Feaster is apparently asking for. The time to trade Iggy was two years ago. Anyhow, here are a couple observations about the current trade climate.

The Pens went for Morrow largely because the asking price for Iggy was too high. I wonder if the Flames are asking for what they think Iggy should have been worth two years ago when he still had time on his contract and before we had started to see some erosion of his skill set?

If the list of potential teams that Iggy submitted is correct, it certainly isn't going to create some big trade war and escalation of price. I would assume that the Pens are likely out of it now. This reminds me of the situation Columbus faced when trying to trade Nash. That took many months to come together. The Flames have a week.

Say what you will but I see all signs pointing to diminished trade return for Iggy. He will always be remembered as a great player here in Calgary and I don't want to diminish him in any way. But Uncle Feaster is facing a card game with the deck stacked against him.

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#45 FireOnIce
March 25 2013, 05:50PM
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Fire sale down at the Saddledome!

EVERYONE! IS! AVAILABLE!

It appears that everything is going to hell from all the speculation. Everyone not named Baertschi, Brodie, Gaudreau, and GlenX is being traded. The only hope is that Uncle Feaster gets SOMETHING useful for them.

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#46 Jai Kiran
March 25 2013, 05:55PM
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Please don't trade Jarome for a goalie. I'd love to see Calgary get a young forward, and I'd be OK with trading Jarome for Dougie Hamilton straight up. But please please please...don't trade him for Malcolm Subban or Bernier.

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#47 Bean-counting cowboy
March 25 2013, 05:57PM
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@ Kent

I wonder what the return would be for Kipper. If it was decent, maybe that changes Feaster's thinkining and trying to get Bernier out of LA for Iggy to maximize returns.

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#48 loudogYYC
March 25 2013, 06:02PM
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@SadFlamesFan

As a general fact, teams overpay at the trade deadline when a premier player is available, so maybe its not just the fans that overvalue Iginla.

The fact that Pittsburgh acquired Morrow doesn't mean they won't go after Iginla, those are 2 different players that fill different roles so I wouldn't be surprised if Shero is still in talks with Feaster. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Pittsburgh is in on both Iggy and Giordano. Martin and his $5M salary would have to come back though :(

Regarding the Nash deal, that wasn't a UFA rental kinda deal, it was the equivalent of trading Iggy in 2011 so I don't think the 9 days till the deadline is a hindrance at all.

Don't be so negative, @SadFlamesFan.

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#49 dotfras
March 25 2013, 06:47PM
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Would love to see Kipper traded. That would almost guarantee us winning (by losing) a Top 5 Draft Pick.

Kipper for Jake Gardiner & a 3rd?

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#50 SadFlamesFan
March 25 2013, 08:31PM
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loudogYYC wrote:

As a general fact, teams overpay at the trade deadline when a premier player is available, so maybe its not just the fans that overvalue Iginla.

The fact that Pittsburgh acquired Morrow doesn't mean they won't go after Iginla, those are 2 different players that fill different roles so I wouldn't be surprised if Shero is still in talks with Feaster. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Pittsburgh is in on both Iggy and Giordano. Martin and his $5M salary would have to come back though :(

Regarding the Nash deal, that wasn't a UFA rental kinda deal, it was the equivalent of trading Iggy in 2011 so I don't think the 9 days till the deadline is a hindrance at all.

Don't be so negative, @SadFlamesFan.

Sounds like a lot of wishful thinking in my mind. This could happen or that could happen. I don't buy it and got tired of this kind of message also coming from the Flames a couple years ago. I'm not negative, I'm a realist.

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