Five things: Playing out the string

Ryan Lambert
April 18 2013 11:16AM

1. What does MacTavish mean for Calgary?

As I was watching the Oilers press conference the other day I had two things kicking around my head. One, obviously, was that Kevin Lowe seems almost unimaginably dumb, tone-deaf and destined to fail in all things. Two, though, was that we're going to be seeing this in more or less 52 weeks a couple hours farther south.

Is this not a wonderful preview of exactly how the organization seems poised to turf Jay Feaster once this team doesn't live up to Murray Edwards' mandate of making the playoffs next season? You can just tell this will be the exact format too: The guy who has overseen a disastrous attempt at continuing to compete long past the team's sell-by date (Ken King) sitting up there bulletproof while the stooge he brought in to clean up his mess (Feaster) is packing up his office, and the new guy (whomever) sits there parroting how important it is not to focus on the rather ugly past and instead focus on what may or may not be a better future.

Of course, with the Oilers, there's at least that promise given their talent up front, whereas despite all the efforts of the Flames front office to restock the farm everyone seems at least a few years off — Arnold, Gaudreau, Gillies, Sieloff, etc. all probably a ways away from being in any way helpful to the NHL roster.

Not that I'm opposed to firing Feaster insofar as he should never have been hired in the first place, and not that I think the Flames will lean on the kind of '80's Oiler cronyism typified by the MacTavish hire, but you wonder exactly how much will be allowed to change as long as King and Edwards are running things. Both teams have the same goal in mind: getting back to the playoffs and being competitive. The Oilers are obviously miles ahead of Calgary in this regard, if only because they have a collection of future stars on their hands. And yet, you get the feeling that these goals are somehow unachievable until the lunkheads running the show are given their walking papers.

2. The goaltending situation going forward

Saw something in the Herald the other day about how Joey MacDonald has earned another contract from the Flames and while I'm not sure I'd go quite that far under normal circumstances, I will say that given the current ones, I'm also not inclined to disagree.

MacDonald has been fine enough by 2013 Calgary goaltending standards, which is obviously the faintest praise one can dole out, and I'm not sure there are too many goaltenders hitting free agency this summer that you'd actually want to sign. Most UFA goalies seem underwhelming in general and those that might entice — your Anton Khudobins, perhaps — would also require a sizable financial and temporal commitment that I'm not sure the Flames should be making given how much they seem to love Karri Ramo's work in the KHL.

An insurance policy, sure, I get that. You can't enter next season with a Ramo/Irving battery, obviously (unless you want to go 0-80-2, which I guess is something you should want if you think this rebuild is all going sideways). But at the same time, how much better is MacDonald, or any Flames option, than a replacement-level goaltender?

Is he appreciably better than Jose Theodore? Would he come cheaper Mathieu Garon? Does any of it end up mattering? The answer to all three is probably no. So I don't know that MacDonald has earned anything, and if he didn't just happen to be the guy standing behind the guy when everything went south. Not a bad spot to be in, obviously, but the same could be said for the Flames as a whole.

3. Cervenka and so forth

As Kent noted yesterday, that little experiment is winding down and hey what do you know it didn't work out at all.

Just as Kent got to say "Told you so" earlier this week about Mikael Backlund being really good, I feel as though now is an appropriate time to point out that I was totally right about how totally ineffective this guy would be at the NHL level. Remember when he was being propped up by some as a potential No. 1 center for Jarome Iginla and Alex Tanguay? Wow does that seem naïve and short-sighted and appallingly optimistic.

First of all, let's not forget that he wasn't ever a natural center, and so trying him there in the best league in the world seemed rather a bad idea in the first place. But the facts speak for themselves. He had 14 points in 35 games headed into last night, having spent part of the year as a regular healthy scratch, and oh man if you ever wanted ammo in the anti-Cervenka vein, just go have a look at Behind the Net. Negative corsi relative against negative quality of competition. That's incredible, isn't it? The only other forwards to get more than 12 games and have negative corsi relatives against subaverage competition were Brian McGrattan and Blair Jones.

I will say once again that I didn't think it was a bad gamble, and obviously it didn't pay off in any way. He's been flat-out bad this season, but even in a best-case scenario he was only ever going to be okay. Anyone who expected him to be more than that was deluding themselves, but I guess there's a lot of that swirling around this team the last few years.

4. So they have three first-round picks

With St. Louis now looking very definitively in the playoffs, it looks like all those first-rounders will be Calgary's this year. So let's all say it together here: "Best player available."

I hope to god Feaster doesn't try to get cute again this year like he did last year. The Jankowski pick obviously still needs a lot of time to be judged but it's already not looking too good, and it was because he decided to try to outfox everyone. Saying Jankowski will be the best player from this draft in a decade was hilariously optimistic at best — and more likely an outright lie — but I swear I can absolutely envision a situation in which he starts trading these picks for two second-rounders and four thirds and a first next year because well heck they got the guy they wanted with their own pick and that was good enough for them.

I don't know if it says more about me or them that I don't trust them to screw up what is essentially a free lunch at this apparently very-deep draft, but I'm actually going to be shocked if they get good value for everything. Like, really shocked about it.

5. Well I guess that's it for Kipper

He had a good run, but it was time. Adios, bud.

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Yer ol' buddy Lambert is handsome and great and everyone loves him. Also you can visit his regular blog at The Two-Line Pass or follow him on Twitter. Lucky you!
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#51 SmellOfVictory
April 18 2013, 03:17PM
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Justin Azevedo wrote:

pit drafted the guy who's rated 14th ov with the next pick.

feaster is not the genius many make him out to be - looking at his draft picks through two seasons I see one legit nhler right now, with three more potentially.

he has bungled trades in exchange for cap space, which, on a team like this, is useless.

he's not a good gm and he has no track record here or in tampa that can dispute that.

Remember, it's primarily Weisbrod and the scouts making these decisions; I don't think anyone is going to accuse Feaster of being a genius in hockey terms.

And in the 2011 draft (and 2012 draft as well, I believe) the Flames consistently picked guys who were rated substantially higher by the various predraft lists than where they went. I did the math for one of the drafts and they ended up drafting the equivalent of +50-100 spots, overall (if I get the urge again I might end up doing the actual math). So, assuming we decide that the predraft lists by ISS, Bob MacKenzie, etc. are good references, the Flames effectively moved up their average draft position by multiple spots per round.

Inside information aside, I can't think of a better way to rate a draft than effective draft position in relation to predraft scouting lists, until you're at least a couple of years out (more like 3-4). By that measure, the Flames have done quite well. Additionally, Jankowski moving up to 25th in the current ranking of 2012 draftees is quite good, given that multiple first rounders ended up dropping out of the top 30 entirely. Maatta wasn't one of them, but nevertheless, it's evidence of a decent choice at that draft position.

Edit: Never mind, The Hockey Writers did it and I just pulled some specifics from it (2012 draft):
Effective draft position by player (negative numbers meaning moving "down" the draft order, not a higher draft position, so positive numbers are better):
Jankowski: -13
Sieloff: -33
Gillies: -28
Kulak: +76
Culkin: +12
Gordon:+87
DeBlouw: +38
Total: +139

Granted, the improvements in effective draft position are all in the lower rounds where you're less likely to get an NHLer in the first place, but it's still good to see. This was also done directly post-draft, so Jankowski would no longer be -13; he'd be a -4 at this point, for example. Gillies also likely would have moved up.

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#52 beloch
April 18 2013, 03:25PM
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Re: #1. The Oilers and Flames are in very different positions.

The Oilers loaded up on #1 overall picks, burned most of their cheap ELC seasons. They now have some superstar players, like Hall and Eberle, who are probably nearing their peak. This was a season for them to put a competent supporting cast around their young stars and make a playoff push. Tambellini completely failed to do that. He didn't even try! Just look at how much cap-space sat unused in Edmonton this season. Maybe the owners wouldn't let him spend to the cap, but the fact remains that the Oilers' management made no attempt to get them into the post season beyond hoping the magic beans would finally sprout this year. They have every right to be upset at themselves and each other.

The Flames, on the other hand, have been completely mediocre since 2004. They've been in the bubble (or better) every year. They would have been in the bubble this year too with league-average goal-tending. Unfortunately, that consistent mediocrity was being sustained by trading picks and youth for overpaid veterans. Under Dutter the Flames' farm turned into such a barren wasteland that it produced no players currently on the roster until Backlund and Brodie came along, with a couple of years of nothing in between them. It's ridiculous for a NHL team to have just two roster players they actually drafted themselves!

That number could easily double as early as next October. There are at least 2-3 prospects who have good chances of making the team for good next season and more in the pipes who might be ready the season after that, and some more coming even later. A steady stream of rookie talent promises to turn the Flames into a producer of NHL talent rather than a consumer. This is huge. I cannot emphasize that enough. Drafting #1 overall is a pretty reliable way of getting a star player, but producing a steady stream of talent also gives you a chance of producing top talent. Look at how Brodie has surprised. If you have a system with lots of good prospects some are bound to perform above their draft position. Is Feaster responsible for this? Well, it started a bit under Dutter actually. I suspect the Flames ownership might have finally warmed up to the idea that, in a salary cap league, you can't just buy your way to championships!

One thing is clear though. The Flames current woes can largely be blamed on their near total failure to produce NHL talent over the last decade. Being a consumer of NHL talent limits a team to players who are neither elite or cheap! Change is here, but it has possibly come too late to save the Flames from a couple of rough years. Then again, add decent goal-tending back in and the Flames may be in the bubble again next year. Regardless the expectations for the Flames are completely different than for the Oilers, and canning Feaster for missing the playoffs next season will not be seen in the same light.

Don't get me wrong, I find some of Feaster's moves highly questionable. I think the ownership should be on the lookout for a better GM. However, even if Feaster was walking on water I'd say the same thing. The owner's job is to make sure the best man available is running the team, so they should *always* be on the lookout for a better GM.

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#53 beloch
April 18 2013, 03:34PM
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Re: #2

The newspaper and telecast announcers always blow smoke up the fans's collective butts about how good whatever mook in net is, even if all quantifiable evidence indicates they suck hard.

MacBackup is just 3 years younger than Kipper and has a career NHL average Sv% of 0.903. This year he's improved from a rocky start to 0.900. That's bad, even for a backup. He's likely on the decline and in no way can be considered a NHL starter. In no way can his numbers be described as "fine" unless you're a color commentator whose had one too many pucks to the head. With Reto Berra inked, there is absolutely no reason to keep MacDonald around. Yes, he's a known quantity, but what is known that he stinks. If the team has to rely on him they're going to be playing for lottery picks anyways! There's no reason to burn a contract on him that could be put to better use.

Hell, I wouldn't have bothered to sign Berra either, but apparently the Flames scouts see something in him that is not reflected in his stat sheet.

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#54 beloch
April 18 2013, 03:39PM
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Re: #3

Cervenka is a colossal failure as a $4M cap hit #1 Center brought in to anchor the Flames scoring line. Is he a failure as a depth winger who actually earned just $1M though?

I've seen some flashes of brilliance from Cervenka this season. If he works on his defensive play (something we knew he was weak on coming into this season) and learns enough English to communicate with people other than the Czech-mates he could improve a lot. He has upside. Signing him to a short, cheap contract could be a smart move.

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#55 rubbertrout
April 18 2013, 04:06PM
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@beloch

Three years in the league and nearing their "peak"? Good grief.

How long did it take the Sedins to mature? suggesting that the Oilers young guns (even some of them) are nearing a peak is ludicrous.

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#56 rubbertrout
April 18 2013, 04:21PM
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Purple Hazze wrote:

"The Jankowski pick obviously still needs a lot of time to be judged but it's already not looking too good"

I don't know how you can make that statement. When the hockey news did a re-draft of the 2012 class, Jankowski moved up to be rated 25th overall. I'd say things are moving in the right direction with him so far.

He went "up" to rated 25th overall and was selected 21st overall. That seems to me to be going in the wrong direction. He went up from where he was initially rated but is still below where he was picked. Olli Matta on the other hand, picked at 22 by the Penguins, moved up to 14.

This is the same guy who was an untouchable by the Pens when the Flames wanted to trade Iggy.

THN's re-draft is here .

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#57 mattyc
April 18 2013, 04:23PM
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@beloch

I agree on 1, 2, and 3 (except maybe that Eberle, Hall and RNH are at their peaks yet).

Next year we could have a few draftees will be on the team. I have to think Bouma will be on the 4th line, Baertschi for sure, but that could leave us at just 4. I'm assuming Horak will be hanging around too, but he wasn't technically drafted.

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#58 beloch
April 18 2013, 04:38PM
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mattyc wrote:

I agree on 1, 2, and 3 (except maybe that Eberle, Hall and RNH are at their peaks yet).

Next year we could have a few draftees will be on the team. I have to think Bouma will be on the 4th line, Baertschi for sure, but that could leave us at just 4. I'm assuming Horak will be hanging around too, but he wasn't technically drafted.

Eberle and Hall are both on a roughly 80 point pace for a full season. As a Flames fan, I refuse to entertain the notion that this might not be "close to peak". It's just too scary otherwise.

P.S. I agree that RNH still has some developing to do, and I never said otherwise.

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#59 beloch
April 18 2013, 04:46PM
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@rubbertrout

He was initially expected to go in the second round, so his ranking rising to the first round in the re-draft is definitely a step in the right direction. I guess your point is that he still might have been taken with a later pick, which is certainly possible.

Still, given the Flames track record with first round picks (*cough* Chucko *cough*), it's nice to see a prospect headed in the right direction at least.

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#60 rubbertrout
April 18 2013, 04:51PM
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beloch wrote:

He was initially expected to go in the second round, so his ranking rising to the first round in the re-draft is definitely a step in the right direction. I guess your point is that he still might have been taken with a later pick, which is certainly possible.

Still, given the Flames track record with first round picks (*cough* Chucko *cough*), it's nice to see a prospect headed in the right direction at least.

He's no Rico Fata. Or Steve Kelly for that matter.

Or maybe he is.

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#61 Kurt
April 18 2013, 04:57PM
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beloch wrote:

Eberle and Hall are both on a roughly 80 point pace for a full season. As a Flames fan, I refuse to entertain the notion that this might not be "close to peak". It's just too scary otherwise.

P.S. I agree that RNH still has some developing to do, and I never said otherwise.

I hear ya... I live in Edmonton and most of my good buddies are Coiler fans. The potential for ridicule could be unbearable and IS scary. I feel like this year was one last chance to laugh at them. Mid season they started to get mouthy, then quieted right down...

I can tell you from close up that the WORST thing would be for their team to turn things around. Over the past 4-5 years these people have turtled and just taken it right up the backside as everyone ridiculed them. Its a ball of hate just ready to explode.

I believe Yakupov has 10pts in the last 10 games even though they have lost 6 in a row and scored hardly any goals. It is truly scary what they could do with competent coaching and mgmt.

Thats why we need to do this rebuild thing right, not just half a$$ed back to middling.

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#62 beloch
April 18 2013, 05:25PM
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@Kurt

I do watch the occasional Oiler game and I do root for them. I'd love to see Alberta to return to it's former status as the league's "Death Valley".

However, Oiler fans and those horrible announcers they have do make it hard. Honestly, some games it sounds like the announcers at Rexall fantasize about taking after-game showers with the rookies. It's just creepy.

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#63 Kent Wilson
April 18 2013, 06:01PM
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Well I see this thread blew up. Nice work everyone!

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#64 RexLibris
April 18 2013, 06:07PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Well I see this thread blew up. Nice work everyone!

Let the Oilers fans into the thread and the whole neighbourhood goes to hell in a handbasket.

;-)

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#65 RexLibris
April 18 2013, 06:07PM
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@beloch

Technically Alberta is Death Valley. Although it might be more appropriately named Valley of the Dead.

Semantics.

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#66 clYDE
April 18 2013, 06:26PM
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Eberle, Hall, Nuge and Schultz completely disappeared when the meaningful games started and it looked like they were in a playoff race. Each had 0 points in their 5 most important game. They put up numbers on the pp and in meaningless games where the physicality and intensity is diminished.

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#67 beloch
April 18 2013, 06:40PM
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Mentioning the Oilers here three times is similar to saying "Beetlejuice" three times, with the notable difference that the problem will remain even if you say Oilers three more times.

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#68 Mike Vernon's ghost
April 18 2013, 06:47PM
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Re: The goaltending situation. It actually really bugs me that Irving hasnt really been given a fair shot. He has succeeded at every level he has played at. He was told to win the job going into camp he did that. Then he was dumped for having a bad period. The guy has played less than 20 NHL games. I mean come on what the hell do you expect? Instead of chasing rainbows(Ramo and Berra) why dont they give Irving a chance. I think this kid has been sort of screwed over by the Flames. I'd be really pissed if he turned into another St Louis, Giguere or worse. The Flames have a long history dumping guys and giving up on them too early........

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#69 Baalzamon
April 18 2013, 07:12PM
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@Mike Vernon's ghost

technically, Irving hasn't succeeded at every level he has played at. He was merely a league-average goalie in the AHL. For years.

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#70 Wizard22
April 18 2013, 07:14PM
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I agree Irving got the short end of the shaft. Anybody know what happened with the goalies on the farm team at the wend of the season?

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#71 Kent Wilson
April 18 2013, 07:42PM
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@Wizard22

They came back down to earth. Plus the team bled a lot of talent to the parent club.

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#72 beloch
April 18 2013, 07:52PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

technically, Irving hasn't succeeded at every level he has played at. He was merely a league-average goalie in the AHL. For years.

Over 195 WHL games Irving posted a 0.919 Sv%, which was promising. That didn't translate into the AHL unfortunately. Over 193 AHL games his Sv% was 0.899, which is probably below league average (I'm not sure what the AHL league average is actually...)

Irving's AHL Sv% did translate into the NHL unfortunately. Over 13 NHL games (a small sample admittedly) his Sv% was 0.891.

For comparison, when MacBackup was 26 (similar to Irving's 25), had played 164 AHL games to Irvings 193 and was starting to get light duty with the Red Wings, his AHL Sv% was 0.915.

In short, Irving is on a similar career path as MacBackup, only his AHL numbers are worse. He was given ample opportunity, but just isn't good enough to be a NHL starter at present. It's always possible he could figure things out late (some goalies do this), take a big step forward and become a great goalie but, with the other goalie prospects the Flames have, is there really room for Irving and such hopes?

Irving was given a fair shot and he blew it. He might not be done yet, but it makes no sense to waste tears on a guy who hasn't lived up to his draft position since he left the WHL. Honestly, the best thing Feaster can do for Irving might be to let him walk. Abbotsford may well have no use for him, but maybe he can resurrect his career elsewhere.

On the other hand, Irving is a marginally better tanking-for-picks option than MacDonald, and the Flames honestly can't expect to do anything else if they do actually play MacBackup, so it makes more sense to keep Irving around than MacBackup. Irving will probably work for cheaper, be willing to mop out the locker-room after games, and there's a tiny glimmer of upside there, unlike MacBackup who is well into decline.

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#73 Alt
April 18 2013, 07:54PM
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As fans we can only speculate about who makes the decisions and at what level.I agree with Smell of Victory, that Weisbrod and the scouts are responsible for recent picks,and Feaster has delegated that responsibility.Also no-one has ever mentioned what influence Conroy may have.He is a successful US player and we do seem to be chasing a lot of American players.

Edward's and King are all business,and should stay out of hockey decisions.I doubt that's the case.Ego's won't allow it.

Edmonton is run from owner to GM by EGO.

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#74 loudogYYC
April 18 2013, 08:03PM
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@Mike Vernon's ghost

You sound like Irving's agent. The guy was drafted in 2006 and has yet to make an impact in the pros. He's had good games completely ruined by his lack of focus and when he's bad, he's terrible. Don't see a reason to keep him when there are 4 goalies in the system who deserve a chance to prove themselves just like Irving had.

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#75 Wizard22
April 18 2013, 08:04PM
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@Kent Wilson

Who was playing? Taylor's name had an "x" beside it recently.

I wonder how Kipper is in the locker room? Could he help in mentoring Ramo? I think we need a Ramo/Skilled veteran tandem next year.

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#76 McRib
April 18 2013, 09:33PM
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rubbertrout wrote:

He went "up" to rated 25th overall and was selected 21st overall. That seems to me to be going in the wrong direction. He went up from where he was initially rated but is still below where he was picked. Olli Matta on the other hand, picked at 22 by the Penguins, moved up to 14.

This is the same guy who was an untouchable by the Pens when the Flames wanted to trade Iggy.

THN's re-draft is here .

Did you by chance look at the redraft for the players everyone wanted the flames to take?!?!?!? Cody Ceci, Radek Faksa, Zemgus Girgensons are all falling and Jankowski is rising.... Not to mention The Hockey News is really being generous about those three who completely plateaued or dropped off! Not a good sign for any prospect! Faksa, Girgensons had terrible years!!! Ceci peaked. Yet Jankowski is still ridiculously under developed!!! I think he adds 20-30 pounds of muscle in the off season makes the World Junior Team and shuts up all the naysayers this year!! Haha. Anyway lets see where Jankowski is after next year before writing him off. Teuvo Teravainen would have been nice though...

During the draft Olli Matta fell over concerns of conditioning and intelligence, he is also playing in an unbelievable situation in London. I was in Pittsburgh at the draft and honestly Matta's whole family was there and to put it mildy they weren't small people, scared scouts big time. Would not be surprised if Calgary actually turned him down in an offer for Iginla, honestly everyone in his family is 300+ Pounds. Girgensons couldn't even pass the NCAA clearing house for the University of Vermont... I repeat the University of Vermont, not Harvard or Yale.. Vermont, Hahah. Worst pick goes to Tampa Bay taking Slater Koekkoek at 10th, am told some scouts didn't even have him in the first round because of injury concerns... Then he had a season ending injury this year. Anyway more goes into drafting kids than just "Talent", Calgary wants character and potential, I am okay with that because lets face it once these kids start making millions it matters.

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#77 McRib
April 18 2013, 09:54PM
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@beloch

Hahah, When the Flames drafted Matt Pelech in the first round I am told some NHL teams didn't even have him ranked period of 210 Players!!! Matt Niskanen or James Neal would have been nice instead. At least Jankowski was on peoples radar, Haha.

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#78 T&A4Flames
April 18 2013, 10:43PM
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@Colin.S

Re: BPA, Cody Ceci was BPA at #14 when CGY was supposed to pick. He wasn't even on that THN redo of the 2012 draft. You just never know.

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#79 Baalzamon
April 18 2013, 10:48PM
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@T&A4Flames

According to the Flames, they considered Jankowski the bpa at 14. If you can take anything Feaster says seriously.

Of course, the 2012 draft was notable for its complete lack of consensus regarding anything but the top 3.

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#80 T&A4Flames
April 18 2013, 11:35PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

According to the Flames, they considered Jankowski the bpa at 14. If you can take anything Feaster says seriously.

Of course, the 2012 draft was notable for its complete lack of consensus regarding anything but the top 3.

There seems to be a similar pattern with this ones well. Beyond the top 3, guys are everywhere depending on what report you read.

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#81 Baalzamon
April 18 2013, 11:40PM
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@T&A4Flames

Indeed. It makes my eyes pop out of my head when I see people brazenly declare it a deep draft, and yet rank Curtis Lazar in the top 10. I'm sorry, but if he's a top 10 player, it ain't a deep draft.

Needless to say, I have him around 20th.

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#82 Scary Gary
April 18 2013, 11:45PM
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@McRib

I definitely wouldn't write Faksa or Girgensons off. Faksa was injured but still managed six points in ten playoff games (i'm a fan). And Girgensons was in the AHL, a little tougher than college. They're both likely three years ahead of Jankowski's development.

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#83 stretch14
April 19 2013, 01:51AM
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You idiots do realize that once u finally manage to acquire some semblance of primary talent by toiling around the basement for the next 3-5 years all of your complimentary pieces will be gone.

Glencross, Camillerea, Stempniak, Tanguay, Stajan, Giordiano...whoever else you think is decent will either have declined "post apex" or moved on to greener pastures by the time you get any sort of a legit nucleus to build around.

Have fun flamers, time to get more "intellectually honest" with yourselves

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#84 Colin.S
April 19 2013, 01:53AM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

Re: BPA, Cody Ceci was BPA at #14 when CGY was supposed to pick. He wasn't even on that THN redo of the 2012 draft. You just never know.

That's kinda what I was saying I think, forget what TSN or someone is saying is "BPA", draft for what we need using our best knowledge and ability. We need forwards and as I've shown, players in the top 30 for scoring are more often than not first rounders. Load up like hell on forwards in the first round and find D later.

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#85 Mike Vernon's ghost
April 19 2013, 03:20AM
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@Baalzamon

I suppose I was generalizing. What I meant to say was at every level Irving has had success. He was a good Junior Goalie. In the AHL (his first full year in the AHL) in 2010-11 he led the league in Shutouts. Now he is down in Abbotsford he isnt even being given a chance. I find all this crap about intellectual honesty really frustrating. Irving simply put is a better goalie than MacDonald and is still young enough to be a potential starter. MacDonald is a known quantity and the question has to be asked if he will even be on the team next year.

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#86 backburner
April 19 2013, 08:22AM
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stretch14 wrote:

You idiots do realize that once u finally manage to acquire some semblance of primary talent by toiling around the basement for the next 3-5 years all of your complimentary pieces will be gone.

Glencross, Camillerea, Stempniak, Tanguay, Stajan, Giordiano...whoever else you think is decent will either have declined "post apex" or moved on to greener pastures by the time you get any sort of a legit nucleus to build around.

Have fun flamers, time to get more "intellectually honest" with yourselves

I sense a little bitterness in this post... you speak from experience? It must really suck being an Oiler's fan.

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#87 Scary Gary
April 19 2013, 08:44AM
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stretch14 wrote:

You idiots do realize that once u finally manage to acquire some semblance of primary talent by toiling around the basement for the next 3-5 years all of your complimentary pieces will be gone.

Glencross, Camillerea, Stempniak, Tanguay, Stajan, Giordiano...whoever else you think is decent will either have declined "post apex" or moved on to greener pastures by the time you get any sort of a legit nucleus to build around.

Have fun flamers, time to get more "intellectually honest" with yourselves

Classic oiler fan, projecting his or her resentment and bitterness to others in an attempt to justify/deflect their own teams inadequacies.

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#88 beloch
April 19 2013, 08:59AM
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@backburner

Well, the Oilers did go into their rebuild without a lot in the way of assets, so it's not too surprising the current team is rookies and not much else. although that represents a pretty big failure on the part of Tambo.

The Flames could find themselves in a similar situation if the Flames' management completely cocks up and rides every last current asset into the ground instead of trading them when they have value. This too would represent a huge failure. Here's hoping it doesn't happen!

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#89 SmellOfVictory
April 19 2013, 09:03AM
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stretch14 wrote:

You idiots do realize that once u finally manage to acquire some semblance of primary talent by toiling around the basement for the next 3-5 years all of your complimentary pieces will be gone.

Glencross, Camillerea, Stempniak, Tanguay, Stajan, Giordiano...whoever else you think is decent will either have declined "post apex" or moved on to greener pastures by the time you get any sort of a legit nucleus to build around.

Have fun flamers, time to get more "intellectually honest" with yourselves

Oh no, the complimentary players might have declined? Do you mean to say that management might have to acquire more at some point in the next 3-5 years?

I realize you're unfamiliar with the concept of acquisition of useful UFA veterans as an Oilers fan, but it is a task that the GMs of most teams perform on a regular basis, the Flames included.

P.S. How's that playoff run going? LOLOL

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#90 Willi P
April 19 2013, 09:49AM
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SmellOfVictory wrote:

Oh no, the complimentary players might have declined? Do you mean to say that management might have to acquire more at some point in the next 3-5 years?

I realize you're unfamiliar with the concept of acquisition of useful UFA veterans as an Oilers fan, but it is a task that the GMs of most teams perform on a regular basis, the Flames included.

P.S. How's that playoff run going? LOLOL

SoV,

The bitter Oiler fan most likely doesn't understand the concept of signing useful UFA veterans because any useful UFA veteran they targeted wouldn't sign to go to Edmonton. After watching KLowe's presser, I can understand why. Maybe next year they can get out of the Coilet.

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#91 Captain Ron
April 19 2013, 12:13PM
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stretch14 wrote:

You idiots do realize that once u finally manage to acquire some semblance of primary talent by toiling around the basement for the next 3-5 years all of your complimentary pieces will be gone.

Glencross, Camillerea, Stempniak, Tanguay, Stajan, Giordiano...whoever else you think is decent will either have declined "post apex" or moved on to greener pastures by the time you get any sort of a legit nucleus to build around.

Have fun flamers, time to get more "intellectually honest" with yourselves

Nice of you to drop in and let US know what our problems will be with complimentary talent moving forward. Your speaking from experience and all with the lamest of management in all of hockey, not to mention the least desirable place next to maybe Long Island (that might soon pass you) for free agents to land. I thought I should mention the Islanders to you since they are currently in a playoff position

Seems to me we have not had any problems bringing in complementary players here in Flames land. Our high end talent is questionable but mostly because we haven't sucked as badly as the Oilers had to in order to bring in any kind of talent whatsoever. Nick (six pack) Khabibulin being an exception of course.

Like it or not Calgary is a more desirable destination for free agent players. We were also recently rated as the NO. 1 city in the country to live in. Thats right NO. 1 in the COUNTRY!

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