Five things: Playing out the string

Ryan Lambert
April 18 2013 11:16AM

1. What does MacTavish mean for Calgary?

As I was watching the Oilers press conference the other day I had two things kicking around my head. One, obviously, was that Kevin Lowe seems almost unimaginably dumb, tone-deaf and destined to fail in all things. Two, though, was that we're going to be seeing this in more or less 52 weeks a couple hours farther south.

Is this not a wonderful preview of exactly how the organization seems poised to turf Jay Feaster once this team doesn't live up to Murray Edwards' mandate of making the playoffs next season? You can just tell this will be the exact format too: The guy who has overseen a disastrous attempt at continuing to compete long past the team's sell-by date (Ken King) sitting up there bulletproof while the stooge he brought in to clean up his mess (Feaster) is packing up his office, and the new guy (whomever) sits there parroting how important it is not to focus on the rather ugly past and instead focus on what may or may not be a better future.

Of course, with the Oilers, there's at least that promise given their talent up front, whereas despite all the efforts of the Flames front office to restock the farm everyone seems at least a few years off — Arnold, Gaudreau, Gillies, Sieloff, etc. all probably a ways away from being in any way helpful to the NHL roster.

Not that I'm opposed to firing Feaster insofar as he should never have been hired in the first place, and not that I think the Flames will lean on the kind of '80's Oiler cronyism typified by the MacTavish hire, but you wonder exactly how much will be allowed to change as long as King and Edwards are running things. Both teams have the same goal in mind: getting back to the playoffs and being competitive. The Oilers are obviously miles ahead of Calgary in this regard, if only because they have a collection of future stars on their hands. And yet, you get the feeling that these goals are somehow unachievable until the lunkheads running the show are given their walking papers.

2. The goaltending situation going forward

Saw something in the Herald the other day about how Joey MacDonald has earned another contract from the Flames and while I'm not sure I'd go quite that far under normal circumstances, I will say that given the current ones, I'm also not inclined to disagree.

MacDonald has been fine enough by 2013 Calgary goaltending standards, which is obviously the faintest praise one can dole out, and I'm not sure there are too many goaltenders hitting free agency this summer that you'd actually want to sign. Most UFA goalies seem underwhelming in general and those that might entice — your Anton Khudobins, perhaps — would also require a sizable financial and temporal commitment that I'm not sure the Flames should be making given how much they seem to love Karri Ramo's work in the KHL.

An insurance policy, sure, I get that. You can't enter next season with a Ramo/Irving battery, obviously (unless you want to go 0-80-2, which I guess is something you should want if you think this rebuild is all going sideways). But at the same time, how much better is MacDonald, or any Flames option, than a replacement-level goaltender?

Is he appreciably better than Jose Theodore? Would he come cheaper Mathieu Garon? Does any of it end up mattering? The answer to all three is probably no. So I don't know that MacDonald has earned anything, and if he didn't just happen to be the guy standing behind the guy when everything went south. Not a bad spot to be in, obviously, but the same could be said for the Flames as a whole.

3. Cervenka and so forth

As Kent noted yesterday, that little experiment is winding down and hey what do you know it didn't work out at all.

Just as Kent got to say "Told you so" earlier this week about Mikael Backlund being really good, I feel as though now is an appropriate time to point out that I was totally right about how totally ineffective this guy would be at the NHL level. Remember when he was being propped up by some as a potential No. 1 center for Jarome Iginla and Alex Tanguay? Wow does that seem naïve and short-sighted and appallingly optimistic.

First of all, let's not forget that he wasn't ever a natural center, and so trying him there in the best league in the world seemed rather a bad idea in the first place. But the facts speak for themselves. He had 14 points in 35 games headed into last night, having spent part of the year as a regular healthy scratch, and oh man if you ever wanted ammo in the anti-Cervenka vein, just go have a look at Behind the Net. Negative corsi relative against negative quality of competition. That's incredible, isn't it? The only other forwards to get more than 12 games and have negative corsi relatives against subaverage competition were Brian McGrattan and Blair Jones.

I will say once again that I didn't think it was a bad gamble, and obviously it didn't pay off in any way. He's been flat-out bad this season, but even in a best-case scenario he was only ever going to be okay. Anyone who expected him to be more than that was deluding themselves, but I guess there's a lot of that swirling around this team the last few years.

4. So they have three first-round picks

With St. Louis now looking very definitively in the playoffs, it looks like all those first-rounders will be Calgary's this year. So let's all say it together here: "Best player available."

I hope to god Feaster doesn't try to get cute again this year like he did last year. The Jankowski pick obviously still needs a lot of time to be judged but it's already not looking too good, and it was because he decided to try to outfox everyone. Saying Jankowski will be the best player from this draft in a decade was hilariously optimistic at best — and more likely an outright lie — but I swear I can absolutely envision a situation in which he starts trading these picks for two second-rounders and four thirds and a first next year because well heck they got the guy they wanted with their own pick and that was good enough for them.

I don't know if it says more about me or them that I don't trust them to screw up what is essentially a free lunch at this apparently very-deep draft, but I'm actually going to be shocked if they get good value for everything. Like, really shocked about it.

5. Well I guess that's it for Kipper

He had a good run, but it was time. Adios, bud.

Around the Nation

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Yer ol' buddy Lambert is handsome and great and everyone loves him. Also you can visit his regular blog at The Two-Line Pass or follow him on Twitter. Lucky you!
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#51 mattyc
April 18 2013, 02:04PM
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I don't understand how people can make all these blanket statements about draft picks. The reality is that none of us are scouts, and most of us haven't seen more than a couple prospects play once or twice (if even that). How we can say, 9 months after they were picked, that someone else was better flies in the face of all the fact-based analysis done on this site (and elsewhere).

Also related to this article: is the penguins pick (probably 25-30 overall) really any more valuable than 2 2nd round picks? Scott Cullen's work on draft pick probabilities suggests it probably isn't.

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#52 chillout
April 18 2013, 02:05PM
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@Justin Azevedo

hahaha I'll try and remember this then.

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#53 chillout
April 18 2013, 02:11PM
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@loudogYYC

I don't think it has anything to do with trying to be cunning. I think it has to do with seeing a little known player that blew some minds that they could just not do without. There is nothing wrong with that at all any GM in the league would do it.

Besides rating players a year out from the draft is stupid, no matter where they were ranked by other people. Our scouting staff took a fluke trip out to see this kid play and then felt they had found a hidden diamond. It'll pan out or it won't just like lots of first round picks. Worrying about it now is just silly. Calling Feaster out on it already is just dumb. In 3 or 4 years we'll have a better Idea of this draft and we'll maybe be able to say if we should have taken somebody else.

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#54 SeanCharles
April 18 2013, 02:16PM
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@the-wolf

I was arguing that Jankowski along with Sieloff is more valuable than Mattaa. (Sieloff and Mattaa both have top-4 potential)

-TT is still underdeveloped physically also, I'm not convinced he will be physically developed enough to play in 2yrs, at least not at a top level. He is small, and doesnt seem like he will grow, in height, anymore.

I wasnt happy about not taking TT either but like you say we will have to wait and see how this all shakes out

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#55 chillout
April 18 2013, 02:16PM
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@the-wolf

To me though projected length to reach the NHL means nothing. take the best player available every time. With your logic teams would always take possible mediocre talents over possible stars just because they aren't late bloomers. Say sidney crosby was 14 and getting drafted would you take him or somebody who's going to be a 3rd or 4th line plug just because they are physically developed enough to play in the upcoming season? Pretty sure I know what I would do.

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#56 shutout
April 18 2013, 02:22PM
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Feast will have two more years to make the playoffs and if they miss next year and the year after the middle of April 2015 will be a press conference saying that Feast and Hartley have not been retained and that they thank them for the tough job they did in "re-tooling" the organization, but that winning is the only thing that matters to our fans, players, management, and owners. As such, we need to bring in somebody that can make some bold moves to help correct the situation and make the Calgary Flames a competitive team in the league. A half dozen points make the difference between playoffs or not and we need to develop a plan to achieve this because after missing the playoffs for six years we are not going to stand by and miss a seventh. Then they will trot out some reference to 2003 and the changes made to the organization and how it helped reap many benefits.

They will go with a former player turned manager at that time and will talk about how his competitive nature on the ice will be brought to the organization through the dressing room and players and out onto the ice.

My guess is that if the Stars miss this year and next year with a new owner they may let go of Nieuwendyk and that he becomes our new general manager a year later.

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#57 shutout
April 18 2013, 02:36PM
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I dont have a problem with the Jankowski pick because of the player. I have a problem with the organization prioritizing a player that is five years away when they have so little skill and talent instead of picking a player that could be in the league in two years.

They would not have gotten the second round pick but they would have picked a player that has skill, would be able to make the team next year, and is higher ranked than Jankowski.

The problem arises if the Flames decide to trade down their own first round top eight pick for additional picks. Doing this adds quantity but they lose out on a prospect that will be able to make the team next year.

The next question is do the Flames try to grab more draft picks with the Blues pick and drop out of the balance of the first round and take a bigger gamble in the second and third rounds? Or do they stock up on the higher ranked available talent that will be available the middle of the first round?

Not sure which is the right call.

If you could draft with the Blues pick one of Gauthier, Lazar, Mantha, Zykov, or Ristolainen would you do that or would you trade that pick say it is late teens to the Montreal Canadiens along with the Penguins pick for the first and second round Canadiens picks along with the Flames and the Preditors second round picks. Give up two, and get back four.

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#58 SeanCharles
April 18 2013, 02:36PM
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@Kurt

Ok I need to be more clear with my points...

I meant we are better off rebuilding our own team because we have surrounding players that will be 2ndardy pieces, we arent better off overall because they have alot of Primary pieces that we do not have.

But you cant argue those Primary pieces, in EDM, not having solid bottom-6 talent and legit goaltending and defensive talent and veterans to surround them with hasnt hurt them.

We have a few guys solid guys to insulate the young guys.

I said JG could 'possibly' be a top end guy, he has along way to go still.

Having Sven and our top pick this year will go along way in helping our future.

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#59 RexLibris
April 18 2013, 02:40PM
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@Kurt

There are some similarities between where the Flames are now and the Oilers were in 2007. A collection of young players, a belief that the foundation was strong but needed only a quick infusion of talent, a management and ownership group focused solely on the playoffs.

However, each team has its own historical peculiarities. I would hope that the Flames find their own history rather than emulate what happened up here in Edmonton. It wasn't pretty and the heartbreak was crushing, although enlightening at the same time.

Right now Calgary sits 6th at the draft, Edmonton 7th. Looking at their relative schedules, I am fairly confident that this position could switch all too easily. If the Flames fall away from drafting any further than 7th or 8th overall the return on this year's pick is likely to drop substantially unless a prospect slides down the rankings like Couturier or Grigorenko.

In that sense, believe me when I tell you, I understand your prayer.

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#60 Kurt
April 18 2013, 02:43PM
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SeanCharles wrote:

Ok I need to be more clear with my points...

I meant we are better off rebuilding our own team because we have surrounding players that will be 2ndardy pieces, we arent better off overall because they have alot of Primary pieces that we do not have.

But you cant argue those Primary pieces, in EDM, not having solid bottom-6 talent and legit goaltending and defensive talent and veterans to surround them with hasnt hurt them.

We have a few guys solid guys to insulate the young guys.

I said JG could 'possibly' be a top end guy, he has along way to go still.

Having Sven and our top pick this year will go along way in helping our future.

I completely agree with you, the Oiler rebuild is flopping because they cut way too close to the bone. I'm happy we've kept some medium aged vets around to continue to build around instead of a nuclear tear down, Coiler style. Completely agree! Although if they ever got their stuff together, it shouldn't be too hard to add some depth around an elite core. Hopefully they keep floundering with Lowe spending his days reminiscing about his Stanley cup rings instead of finding a competent GM.

My fear is just that we have the opposite problem the Oilers have. We have depth and a good vet core, but no top end talent. It would seem easier to get some vets than it is to get elite talent. Merging teams would probably make a powerhouse!

I just hope Feaster and crew do this right, and don't rush us back to being a perpetual middling team.

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#61 Parallex
April 18 2013, 02:44PM
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Flames signed Ramage for those who are interested.

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=666536

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#62 the-wolf
April 18 2013, 02:44PM
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SeanCharles wrote:

Ok I need to be more clear with my points...

I meant we are better off rebuilding our own team because we have surrounding players that will be 2ndardy pieces, we arent better off overall because they have alot of Primary pieces that we do not have.

But you cant argue those Primary pieces, in EDM, not having solid bottom-6 talent and legit goaltending and defensive talent and veterans to surround them with hasnt hurt them.

We have a few guys solid guys to insulate the young guys.

I said JG could 'possibly' be a top end guy, he has along way to go still.

Having Sven and our top pick this year will go along way in helping our future.

I get your point, but you have to admit, getting that top end talent is the HARD part. Filling ou the bottom 6 should be the EASY part.

If MacT knows what he's doing, the Oil can be a solid middle tier playoff team next season. Not a Cup contender, but a 4th-6th place team.

The heavy lifting there is done. The only way Calgary is going to get 1st line talent is the way every single team since th elockout (and relly, even before then) has done it - draft it.

Otherwise, the Flames' ceiling will be somewhere between a Nashville (don't count this year) and St. Louis. Solid, but not enough of a threat to beat the elite teams.

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#63 mattyc
April 18 2013, 02:49PM
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@Parallex

I wonder if he gets the call to come audition for a few games... I'd also like to see Cundari get a few games up here...

Feels like training camp pt. 2

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#64 Lober
April 18 2013, 02:58PM
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Not a Feaster fan at all but the 2011 draft is probably our best draft (so far) in the last decade. If the draft was redone all of our picks would go higher then they went. Even though we only had 5 picks I think they are all great picks and 3-5/5 of them will be in the line up withen the next 2 years.

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#65 RexLibris
April 18 2013, 03:00PM
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Regarding the draft and the "Edmonton is closing on us" feeling.

This is for Flames fans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnP5iDKwuwk

Kind of surprised BoL didn't use it in his post-game.

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#66 SeanCharles
April 18 2013, 03:11PM
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@RexLibris

I agree 100% top talent is harder to aquire, and can mostly only be done through the draft.

And kudos to Feaster for not trading picks or prospects, cause you can, although unlikely, find a late round gem.

I don't things are all too shabby here though, we do have Baertschi, Backlund, Brodie and this years top pick as top-6/top4 players. They are young and enjoy playing here.

Nothing is set in stone, but its a start.

We agree top 6 talent(top4 also)are the hard ones to get. I feel we already have 4 pieces to those key areas that are young. Backlund is a 2nd line center, Brodie is a top 4 dman, and Sven is a top 6-who should be top line player, and our top pick this year, which should be a top line center, in theory.

Its not as grimm as some think, but we dont have the big names like EDM.

I hope both teams return to being playoff regulars, and battle for the cup year in and year out

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#67 beloch
April 18 2013, 03:25PM
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Re: #1. The Oilers and Flames are in very different positions.

The Oilers loaded up on #1 overall picks, burned most of their cheap ELC seasons. They now have some superstar players, like Hall and Eberle, who are probably nearing their peak. This was a season for them to put a competent supporting cast around their young stars and make a playoff push. Tambellini completely failed to do that. He didn't even try! Just look at how much cap-space sat unused in Edmonton this season. Maybe the owners wouldn't let him spend to the cap, but the fact remains that the Oilers' management made no attempt to get them into the post season beyond hoping the magic beans would finally sprout this year. They have every right to be upset at themselves and each other.

The Flames, on the other hand, have been completely mediocre since 2004. They've been in the bubble (or better) every year. They would have been in the bubble this year too with league-average goal-tending. Unfortunately, that consistent mediocrity was being sustained by trading picks and youth for overpaid veterans. Under Dutter the Flames' farm turned into such a barren wasteland that it produced no players currently on the roster until Backlund and Brodie came along, with a couple of years of nothing in between them. It's ridiculous for a NHL team to have just two roster players they actually drafted themselves!

That number could easily double as early as next October. There are at least 2-3 prospects who have good chances of making the team for good next season and more in the pipes who might be ready the season after that, and some more coming even later. A steady stream of rookie talent promises to turn the Flames into a producer of NHL talent rather than a consumer. This is huge. I cannot emphasize that enough. Drafting #1 overall is a pretty reliable way of getting a star player, but producing a steady stream of talent also gives you a chance of producing top talent. Look at how Brodie has surprised. If you have a system with lots of good prospects some are bound to perform above their draft position. Is Feaster responsible for this? Well, it started a bit under Dutter actually. I suspect the Flames ownership might have finally warmed up to the idea that, in a salary cap league, you can't just buy your way to championships!

One thing is clear though. The Flames current woes can largely be blamed on their near total failure to produce NHL talent over the last decade. Being a consumer of NHL talent limits a team to players who are neither elite or cheap! Change is here, but it has possibly come too late to save the Flames from a couple of rough years. Then again, add decent goal-tending back in and the Flames may be in the bubble again next year. Regardless the expectations for the Flames are completely different than for the Oilers, and canning Feaster for missing the playoffs next season will not be seen in the same light.

Don't get me wrong, I find some of Feaster's moves highly questionable. I think the ownership should be on the lookout for a better GM. However, even if Feaster was walking on water I'd say the same thing. The owner's job is to make sure the best man available is running the team, so they should *always* be on the lookout for a better GM.

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#68 rubbertrout
April 18 2013, 04:06PM
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@beloch

Three years in the league and nearing their "peak"? Good grief.

How long did it take the Sedins to mature? suggesting that the Oilers young guns (even some of them) are nearing a peak is ludicrous.

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#69 mattyc
April 18 2013, 04:23PM
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@beloch

I agree on 1, 2, and 3 (except maybe that Eberle, Hall and RNH are at their peaks yet).

Next year we could have a few draftees will be on the team. I have to think Bouma will be on the 4th line, Baertschi for sure, but that could leave us at just 4. I'm assuming Horak will be hanging around too, but he wasn't technically drafted.

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#70 beloch
April 18 2013, 04:46PM
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@rubbertrout

He was initially expected to go in the second round, so his ranking rising to the first round in the re-draft is definitely a step in the right direction. I guess your point is that he still might have been taken with a later pick, which is certainly possible.

Still, given the Flames track record with first round picks (*cough* Chucko *cough*), it's nice to see a prospect headed in the right direction at least.

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#71 rubbertrout
April 18 2013, 04:51PM
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beloch wrote:

He was initially expected to go in the second round, so his ranking rising to the first round in the re-draft is definitely a step in the right direction. I guess your point is that he still might have been taken with a later pick, which is certainly possible.

Still, given the Flames track record with first round picks (*cough* Chucko *cough*), it's nice to see a prospect headed in the right direction at least.

He's no Rico Fata. Or Steve Kelly for that matter.

Or maybe he is.

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#72 Kurt
April 18 2013, 04:57PM
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beloch wrote:

Eberle and Hall are both on a roughly 80 point pace for a full season. As a Flames fan, I refuse to entertain the notion that this might not be "close to peak". It's just too scary otherwise.

P.S. I agree that RNH still has some developing to do, and I never said otherwise.

I hear ya... I live in Edmonton and most of my good buddies are Coiler fans. The potential for ridicule could be unbearable and IS scary. I feel like this year was one last chance to laugh at them. Mid season they started to get mouthy, then quieted right down...

I can tell you from close up that the WORST thing would be for their team to turn things around. Over the past 4-5 years these people have turtled and just taken it right up the backside as everyone ridiculed them. Its a ball of hate just ready to explode.

I believe Yakupov has 10pts in the last 10 games even though they have lost 6 in a row and scored hardly any goals. It is truly scary what they could do with competent coaching and mgmt.

Thats why we need to do this rebuild thing right, not just half a$$ed back to middling.

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#73 Kent Wilson
April 18 2013, 06:01PM
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Well I see this thread blew up. Nice work everyone!

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#74 beloch
April 18 2013, 06:40PM
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Mentioning the Oilers here three times is similar to saying "Beetlejuice" three times, with the notable difference that the problem will remain even if you say Oilers three more times.

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#75 Mike Vernon's ghost
April 18 2013, 06:47PM
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Re: The goaltending situation. It actually really bugs me that Irving hasnt really been given a fair shot. He has succeeded at every level he has played at. He was told to win the job going into camp he did that. Then he was dumped for having a bad period. The guy has played less than 20 NHL games. I mean come on what the hell do you expect? Instead of chasing rainbows(Ramo and Berra) why dont they give Irving a chance. I think this kid has been sort of screwed over by the Flames. I'd be really pissed if he turned into another St Louis, Giguere or worse. The Flames have a long history dumping guys and giving up on them too early........

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#76 Wizard22
April 18 2013, 07:14PM
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I agree Irving got the short end of the shaft. Anybody know what happened with the goalies on the farm team at the wend of the season?

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#77 Kent Wilson
April 18 2013, 07:42PM
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@Wizard22

They came back down to earth. Plus the team bled a lot of talent to the parent club.

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#78 Wizard22
April 18 2013, 08:04PM
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@Kent Wilson

Who was playing? Taylor's name had an "x" beside it recently.

I wonder how Kipper is in the locker room? Could he help in mentoring Ramo? I think we need a Ramo/Skilled veteran tandem next year.

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#79 McRib
April 18 2013, 09:33PM
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rubbertrout wrote:

He went "up" to rated 25th overall and was selected 21st overall. That seems to me to be going in the wrong direction. He went up from where he was initially rated but is still below where he was picked. Olli Matta on the other hand, picked at 22 by the Penguins, moved up to 14.

This is the same guy who was an untouchable by the Pens when the Flames wanted to trade Iggy.

THN's re-draft is here .

Did you by chance look at the redraft for the players everyone wanted the flames to take?!?!?!? Cody Ceci, Radek Faksa, Zemgus Girgensons are all falling and Jankowski is rising.... Not to mention The Hockey News is really being generous about those three who completely plateaued or dropped off! Not a good sign for any prospect! Faksa, Girgensons had terrible years!!! Ceci peaked. Yet Jankowski is still ridiculously under developed!!! I think he adds 20-30 pounds of muscle in the off season makes the World Junior Team and shuts up all the naysayers this year!! Haha. Anyway lets see where Jankowski is after next year before writing him off. Teuvo Teravainen would have been nice though...

During the draft Olli Matta fell over concerns of conditioning and intelligence, he is also playing in an unbelievable situation in London. I was in Pittsburgh at the draft and honestly Matta's whole family was there and to put it mildy they weren't small people, scared scouts big time. Would not be surprised if Calgary actually turned him down in an offer for Iginla, honestly everyone in his family is 300+ Pounds. Girgensons couldn't even pass the NCAA clearing house for the University of Vermont... I repeat the University of Vermont, not Harvard or Yale.. Vermont, Hahah. Worst pick goes to Tampa Bay taking Slater Koekkoek at 10th, am told some scouts didn't even have him in the first round because of injury concerns... Then he had a season ending injury this year. Anyway more goes into drafting kids than just "Talent", Calgary wants character and potential, I am okay with that because lets face it once these kids start making millions it matters.

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#80 T&A4Flames
April 18 2013, 10:43PM
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@Colin.S

Re: BPA, Cody Ceci was BPA at #14 when CGY was supposed to pick. He wasn't even on that THN redo of the 2012 draft. You just never know.

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#81 Baalzamon
April 18 2013, 10:48PM
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@T&A4Flames

According to the Flames, they considered Jankowski the bpa at 14. If you can take anything Feaster says seriously.

Of course, the 2012 draft was notable for its complete lack of consensus regarding anything but the top 3.

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#82 T&A4Flames
April 18 2013, 11:35PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

According to the Flames, they considered Jankowski the bpa at 14. If you can take anything Feaster says seriously.

Of course, the 2012 draft was notable for its complete lack of consensus regarding anything but the top 3.

There seems to be a similar pattern with this ones well. Beyond the top 3, guys are everywhere depending on what report you read.

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#83 Baalzamon
April 18 2013, 11:40PM
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@T&A4Flames

Indeed. It makes my eyes pop out of my head when I see people brazenly declare it a deep draft, and yet rank Curtis Lazar in the top 10. I'm sorry, but if he's a top 10 player, it ain't a deep draft.

Needless to say, I have him around 20th.

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#84 Scary Gary
April 18 2013, 11:45PM
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@McRib

I definitely wouldn't write Faksa or Girgensons off. Faksa was injured but still managed six points in ten playoff games (i'm a fan). And Girgensons was in the AHL, a little tougher than college. They're both likely three years ahead of Jankowski's development.

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#85 Colin.S
April 19 2013, 01:53AM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

Re: BPA, Cody Ceci was BPA at #14 when CGY was supposed to pick. He wasn't even on that THN redo of the 2012 draft. You just never know.

That's kinda what I was saying I think, forget what TSN or someone is saying is "BPA", draft for what we need using our best knowledge and ability. We need forwards and as I've shown, players in the top 30 for scoring are more often than not first rounders. Load up like hell on forwards in the first round and find D later.

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#86 Mike Vernon's ghost
April 19 2013, 03:20AM
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@Baalzamon

I suppose I was generalizing. What I meant to say was at every level Irving has had success. He was a good Junior Goalie. In the AHL (his first full year in the AHL) in 2010-11 he led the league in Shutouts. Now he is down in Abbotsford he isnt even being given a chance. I find all this crap about intellectual honesty really frustrating. Irving simply put is a better goalie than MacDonald and is still young enough to be a potential starter. MacDonald is a known quantity and the question has to be asked if he will even be on the team next year.

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#87 Scary Gary
April 19 2013, 08:44AM
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stretch14 wrote:

You idiots do realize that once u finally manage to acquire some semblance of primary talent by toiling around the basement for the next 3-5 years all of your complimentary pieces will be gone.

Glencross, Camillerea, Stempniak, Tanguay, Stajan, Giordiano...whoever else you think is decent will either have declined "post apex" or moved on to greener pastures by the time you get any sort of a legit nucleus to build around.

Have fun flamers, time to get more "intellectually honest" with yourselves

Classic oiler fan, projecting his or her resentment and bitterness to others in an attempt to justify/deflect their own teams inadequacies.

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#88 beloch
April 19 2013, 08:59AM
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@backburner

Well, the Oilers did go into their rebuild without a lot in the way of assets, so it's not too surprising the current team is rookies and not much else. although that represents a pretty big failure on the part of Tambo.

The Flames could find themselves in a similar situation if the Flames' management completely cocks up and rides every last current asset into the ground instead of trading them when they have value. This too would represent a huge failure. Here's hoping it doesn't happen!

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#89 SmellOfVictory
April 19 2013, 09:03AM
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stretch14 wrote:

You idiots do realize that once u finally manage to acquire some semblance of primary talent by toiling around the basement for the next 3-5 years all of your complimentary pieces will be gone.

Glencross, Camillerea, Stempniak, Tanguay, Stajan, Giordiano...whoever else you think is decent will either have declined "post apex" or moved on to greener pastures by the time you get any sort of a legit nucleus to build around.

Have fun flamers, time to get more "intellectually honest" with yourselves

Oh no, the complimentary players might have declined? Do you mean to say that management might have to acquire more at some point in the next 3-5 years?

I realize you're unfamiliar with the concept of acquisition of useful UFA veterans as an Oilers fan, but it is a task that the GMs of most teams perform on a regular basis, the Flames included.

P.S. How's that playoff run going? LOLOL

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#90 Willi P
April 19 2013, 09:49AM
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SmellOfVictory wrote:

Oh no, the complimentary players might have declined? Do you mean to say that management might have to acquire more at some point in the next 3-5 years?

I realize you're unfamiliar with the concept of acquisition of useful UFA veterans as an Oilers fan, but it is a task that the GMs of most teams perform on a regular basis, the Flames included.

P.S. How's that playoff run going? LOLOL

SoV,

The bitter Oiler fan most likely doesn't understand the concept of signing useful UFA veterans because any useful UFA veteran they targeted wouldn't sign to go to Edmonton. After watching KLowe's presser, I can understand why. Maybe next year they can get out of the Coilet.

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#91 Captain Ron
April 19 2013, 12:13PM
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stretch14 wrote:

You idiots do realize that once u finally manage to acquire some semblance of primary talent by toiling around the basement for the next 3-5 years all of your complimentary pieces will be gone.

Glencross, Camillerea, Stempniak, Tanguay, Stajan, Giordiano...whoever else you think is decent will either have declined "post apex" or moved on to greener pastures by the time you get any sort of a legit nucleus to build around.

Have fun flamers, time to get more "intellectually honest" with yourselves

Nice of you to drop in and let US know what our problems will be with complimentary talent moving forward. Your speaking from experience and all with the lamest of management in all of hockey, not to mention the least desirable place next to maybe Long Island (that might soon pass you) for free agents to land. I thought I should mention the Islanders to you since they are currently in a playoff position

Seems to me we have not had any problems bringing in complementary players here in Flames land. Our high end talent is questionable but mostly because we haven't sucked as badly as the Oilers had to in order to bring in any kind of talent whatsoever. Nick (six pack) Khabibulin being an exception of course.

Like it or not Calgary is a more desirable destination for free agent players. We were also recently rated as the NO. 1 city in the country to live in. Thats right NO. 1 in the COUNTRY!

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