Kipper Staying in Calgary Highlights Flames Failures

Kent Wilson
April 03 2013 10:05AM

 

Kiprusoff

pic via Cats Five

TSN reporting this morning that Kiprusoff has opted to remain in calgary for the rest of the season and will likely retire in the off-season.

It's a disappointing end to the Kipper saga, even if we assume the return from Toronto was going to be marginal. When I was penning "trade Kipper" articles in the past, this was my ultimate fear - that the team would hang on until the asset was drained of all value. I'm not going to begrudge Kiprusoff this final stand, but it's astonishing how completely the Flames former cornerstones have crumbled with almost nothing to show for it. Right now, the best return for a former core player (aside from a couple of first round picks) is...Lee Stempniak.

Since 2010, the Calgary organization has shed Dion Phaneuf, Robyn Regher, Daymond Langkow, Jarome Iginla, Jay Bouwmeester and (soon) Miikka Kiprusoff and all they have to show for that collection of formerly high priced, high-valued players is a collection of middling prospects, the aforementioned picks, Lee Stempniak, Chris Butler and Matt Stajan. What a disaster.

The Flames inability to draft and groom their own players internally is a big reason they stand on the percipience of the abyss currently, but make no mistake - the club's almost total failure to appropriately leverage their high-end pieces is another big issue.

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Former Nations Overlord. Current Fn contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#1 jakeryley
April 03 2013, 10:08AM
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I love Kipper, and Iggy - but the last few weeks show just how poorly managed the Flames have been.

Miikka and Jarome had become "bigger" than the team. Even in small ways like Jarome having his own specific goal celebration on the big screen.

Miikka and Jarome had become the "brand", rather than the Flaming C - and this happened because of management's complete incompetence in bringing along other stars (which is also why the team failed on the ice).

Lots of respect for Miikka, but I sincerely hope he retires at the end of the season so that this disaster of an era can end.

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#4 the forgotten man
April 03 2013, 10:28AM
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BurningSensation wrote:

My quibble is with including the sins of the past regime in with the issues of the current.

Without a doubt the Phaneuf trade is one of the all-time worst trades in Flames history (up with Brett Hull for Walmsley and Ramage - and without the mitigation of a cup win), but that is hardly fair to smear Feaster with.

The Langkow trade isn't one that bothers me all that much. His value was in decline for sure, but we traded him after a catastrophic injury, and got a useful piece back. I think most reasonable people would call the return we got for him under those circumstances to be more than adequate.

Likewise, the NMC of J-Bo and Iggy are part of what hamstrung their trade value. That said, from the look of things so far this year the only team to land 1st rnd picks in deadline deals is...us. So I'm not exactly outraged by the return.

Lastly, the dearth of prospects and their development is directly tied to the former regime and not the current one. I would think that even the harshest critics of Feaster (of which there are no shortage around here) would concede that if he has done nothing else he has rebuilt the talent procurement side of the team, and had three solid to excellent drafts in a row. This is reason #1 that I am bullish on the returns we received for JBo and Iggy - the one thing our current regime has going for it is that they have been able to work the draft to produce quality prospects in a way that the previous regime never did.

What sort of cosmic bunny hole do you live in? Previous regime???? Last I looked, Ken King has been President through this whole debacle along with Tod(d) Button as head of scouting and for that matter Feaster has been an executive with he Org for almost 3 years. Your cognitive dissonance on this one is astounding.

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#5 danglesnipecelly
April 03 2013, 10:30AM
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So far this is miles from a "rebuild" this is a tear down. I'm yet to see one real building block coming back other than the picks. Kipper is just icing on the cake, how fitting... all of our best cards have been played other than maybe Glencross and we have almost nothing to show for it.

What's the point in firing Feaster and King? Edwards will just bring in two more puppets.

I'm teetering on the edge as a Flames fan. I've just about had enough...

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#6 Dino
April 03 2013, 10:35AM
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@BurningSensation

Are you Jay Feaster? BurningSensation is your pen name, isn't it?

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#7 bruins2011
April 03 2013, 10:40AM
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Why is there not a push to get Ken King out? He allowed Sutter to run a dictatorship and continue this awful legacy of drafting and developing. He's not a hockey guy, yet he's got his hands in everything. He brought in Feaster and the continuation of this mediocrity and lies. As president he is responsible for the hockey department and everything it entails. With these deals, I would have much preferred a quality prospect from another organization that was being developed since the Flames have not been able to draft or develop anyone of note in over 20 years. Obviously the ownership plays a huge part in this debacle also. Its a total mismanagement of assets. Even the Niuewendyk/Iggy deal was poor. All they got was a prospect and Corey Millen for one of the top players in the league. There was no guarantee Iggy would turn out the way he did. They've taken advantage of the fans for years. The whole young guns scenario was a fiasco because they just had to work hard and get out of the bottom 5 teams, even though they still missed the playoffs anyway. Even now, where are their European scouts? Does anyone scout the Q? I'm tired of the WHL and western mentality that they would be proud to wear the sweater and represent the city. Do they look like they have pride? Did they the last few years? Ownership should apologize for lying and King should be fired for incompetence. Sorry for the rant, but its been building for a while and I think fans are being fleeced, while being partly responsible for not standing up to the farce this organization has become.

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#8 the forgotten man
April 03 2013, 10:41AM
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Michael wrote:

The problem is that pretty well everyone outside the organization say this train wreck coming years ago. I'm at a loss to explain why the Flames front office buried their head's in the sand and did nothing for years. The buck stops on the GM desk, this is Feasters third trade deadline, so he is ultimately responsible. While their is plenty of blame to be shared (King, Sutter etc) Feaster is the GM in charge, this mess falls squarely on his shoulders.

What is even more appalling, is the hit that the organization has taken to its reputation. Feaster has dithered and bungled his tenure as GM. The conclusion to me is obvious....

The funniest part is that Feaster yesterday on the Fan960 issued a mea culpa for his last 3 years here..."no intellectual honesty"..."had a bad read on state of team".

One can not even make this stuff up if they tried...it sounded exactly like a guy who knew he would never get another sniff of the NHL once his gig in Calgary is up. The smell of desperation. He is apparently heading our rebuild....thanks Murray.

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#9 Scary Gary
April 03 2013, 10:47AM
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This is disappointing. Regardless of the whole threatening to retire if traded thing, two things remain:

1. He is under contract for 2013/2014 and until he retires his rights belong to the Calgary Flames to do with as they see fit (i.e. call his bluff and trade him, then make the picks entirely conditional).

2. His numbers have not warranted the number of starts he's been getting; he's been the number one this season on reputation alone.

Whether it's his knee, the off-ice distraction related to his family or his speculated impending retirement, it may be best for everyone if he retires now.

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#10 mcculb
April 03 2013, 10:53AM
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We are handcuffed by bad ownership. Edwards seems to have his hands deep in the operations pie. His loyalty to King is hard to understand.

Feaster has a bad rep with other GM's: ROR, Iggy last second switch, approving Kipper talks and his desperation move with JBow.

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#11 HongKongHockeyFan
April 03 2013, 10:56AM
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I think the Kipper and Iginla trades or lack thereof are simply the lessons that Flames ownership needs to be taught. These owners are simply not knowledgeable hockey people. It's unfortunately a painful lessen for us Flames fans but hopefully they will wake up and given the keys to the car to somebody who knows how to manage a hockey team in the new salary cap era!

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#12 TheRealPoc
April 03 2013, 11:01AM
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FauxRumors wrote:

I say the Flames do 1 of 2 things with Kipper...

1. SIT THE BUM...let him ride the pine the rest of the year...maybe even HEALTHY SCRATCH him the rest of the year.

Or...even better...

2. Put him on Waivers...when no one claims him assign him to Abbotsford...when he doesn't report...SUSPEND HIM!

GOOD RIDDANCE...nice loyalty to the team that grabbed you off the scrap heap in San Jose and gave you a career. Good to see you win ZILCH in Calgary. GOOD RIDDANCE! #CLASSLESS #OVERRATED

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen a Flames fan write on a message board. And that's saying something.

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#13 negrilcowboy
April 03 2013, 11:11AM
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TOXIC TOXIC TOXIC this organization is a two ring circus, what an EFFIN carnival. no wonder why they cant make the playoffs its a joke. the prisoners were running the asylum.

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#14 BurningSensation
April 03 2013, 11:12AM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

The state of the organization is tied to both regimes. Sutter screwed up the Phaneuf trade and drafting stunk in his epoch, but Feaster came in and opted to run Iginla, Kipper into the ground, moved Regehr for not all that much and recently rushed to trade Bouwmeester when he had a lot more time and leverage to maximize the return.

The Langkow trade ends up as the only win and even then Calgary didn't add a single future asset in that deal.

The disaster is culminating on Feaster's watch and it's not ALL his fault, but it's not like he's done anything to mitigate it.

I guess I see things differently on a couple of points;

- The Regehr trade netted us not just assets, but rid us of one of the most toxic contracts in the league, and Regehr hasn't been worth all that much in any way since we let him go. It was the first step away from the Sutter regime IMO (a conclusion reinforced by the fact it is Sutter's team that just took him on).

- I think the 'rush' on dealing JBo is totally justified. If we don't deal him now then the pressure of making the playoffs and doing well is alleviated, and every GM's primary concern becomes 'how do I get under the new cap'. Waiting to trade JBo would have seen his value decrease, rather than increase (I note here that he has garnered arguably the best return of any trade made near the deadline, with the chief competition for top spot being what Iginla brought in)

- I don't think Feaster opted to 'run Iginla and Kipper into the ground', I think that was ownerships call. I have said before that I thought Feaster was engaging in a slow-motion rebuild. Getting rid of bad contracts (Kotalik, Regehr, etc.), being more judicial with picks (he has used more 2nd rounders than Sutter did in his entire time here), and generally trying to clean up the mess that Sutter left in his wake - while at the same time trying to satsify ownership's desire to not do a full-scale meltdown.

I'd also argue that but for some bad luck (injuries mostly), he almost made it work.

- In terms of Feaster's priorities, I think he has them exactly right (where I thought Sutter had them exactly wrong). The Flames talent pipeline HAD TO BE FIXED for any long term success to ever happen. The 'rebuild' that everyone called for would go nowhere fast if the basic foundation of the team isn't solid (see: Edmonton - the high-end kids are fine, it's everywhere else that is in trouble). Sutter had obliterated the base of the team by jettisoning 2nd rnd picks in bad trades, and blowing his 1sts on 'farmer strong' kids who nevertheless couldn't skate. Feaster has completely retooled the system for talent aquisition - and it is from that base that any future success for the team is going to come.

Is Feaster totally blameless? No. I can't stand how he deals with the media, I have issues with the Wideman contract, and I'm still not sold on Hartley as coach (though I like him much more than Butter), but I think he has decided to turn into the skid and is getting the team back on track.

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#15 BurningSensation
April 03 2013, 11:24AM
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the-wolf wrote:

Even if Calgary insisted on moving JBo this year, not waiting until the last minute was stupid. Feaster is obviously a terrible poker player.

Name how many better D there are in the NHL. JBo is probably in the top 30. And we essentially moved him for a signle first round pick.

re: Kipper - mixed feelings. By rights he should be suspended, but imagine the PR nightmare. Not one media outlet would side with Calgary and they've had enough PR nightmares this season already. So just leave him alone.

Truth is, he should've been moved earlier, just like Iginla, and by not doing the rebuild earlier, the Flames have made their bed and now have to lie in it.

Still, you'd think Kipper would want one more playoff run and shot at glory. Also pretty sure he can afford to move his family out there. We're only talking 2-3 months.

Calgary is the only team to collect any high picks (1st rounders) in this trade deadline, and we didn't eat any salary, or even add any salary in return.

Waiting to get a better offer presumes that a better offer was to be had by waiting - and I don't see how that could be the case. Waiting an extra 24 hours to do the JBo wouldn't have likely changed anything, and could have made it worse.

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#16 BurningSensation
April 03 2013, 11:36AM
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the-wolf wrote:

If they'd eaten salary and I can't figure out why they didn't, than waiting would've made sense. Under the circumstance that existed (not eating salary), no, it would not have made a difference.

The only thing I can think of is that Feaster, once again smarter than everyone else on the planet, thinks he can use that cap space to buy his way out of trouble this summer. He's actually basically said that. I just have a hard time envisioning it to work for a number of reasons.

One other option to use that cap space is to take on a bad contract (say Komisarek) in order to get another pick or prospect.

In many ways, cap space is it's own reward.

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#17 Scott Lemieux
April 03 2013, 11:49AM
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The state of the organization is tied to both regimes. Sutter screwed up the Phaneuf trade and drafting stunk in his epoch, but Feaster came in and opted to run Iginla, Kipper into the ground, moved Regehr for not all that much and recently rushed to trade Bouwmeester when he had a lot more time and leverage to maximize the return.

Agreed with this with one exception. As I've said before I don't think that the Bouwmeester return was unreasonable, and doubt that more was available. Top prospects aren't being moved for anyone right now, let alone extremely expensive good but non-elite players. Before the season, just dumping his contract would have been a miracle, and while maybe he could have gotten more on draft day what if he played badly down the stretch or got hurt? A first rounder in a deep draft was a reasonable return.

But, otherwise, you're spot on. Whether they got a fourth-rounder for Kiprusoff or not doesn't really matter, but the mistake was not trading him when he had real value and it was clear the team wasn't going anywhere. And you're also right that while the worst errors were made by Sutter Feaster went along with a bad strategy and executed in poorly.

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#18 Scott Lemieux
April 03 2013, 12:28PM
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@the-wolf

Except that the pick is conditional and the Blues are in 8th. A couple of injuries and we're picking in 2014.

1)Well, the Blues have to be considered heavy favorites to make the playoffs as of now.

2)The worst-case scenario -- a 2013 fourth rounder, a 2014 rounder, a couple of C prospects -- is still a lot more than he would have commanded before the season. It's entirely possible that on draft day less would have been available, and not plausible that there would be a lot more.

3)The argument kind of collapses on itself. If you're seriously worried about the Blues missing the playoffs, it's pretty much a concession that Bouwmeester isn't a high-impact player. (And I agree he's not; he's a nifty second pairing guy but nothing more than that on a good team. The Blues obviously could miss the playoffs with him.) So why do you think that teams will be lining up to empty their farm systems to take him on at a $6.7 M cap hit next year?

Me, I'd take the money and run. You're not going to get much more and you could wind up with a lot less.

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#19 Purple Hazze
April 03 2013, 01:29PM
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A lot of angry and emotional fans in Calgary right now, which is understandable considering no one knows what to make of our beloved Flames anymore. We all knew it wasn't going to be pretty when this happened! There's a lot of reasons why we find ourselves where we are today:

1. The previous GM - this is the biggest reason, poor drafting and development record leaving our cupboards bare along with questionable signings and trades.

2. Iggy - A lot of people fail to recognize the fact that Iginla is one of the reasons why we toiled as a bubble team the last 3 years instead of starting the rebuild. He is the reason why we brought back Tanguay, Cammi, and Oli. He felt "the answers were in the dressing room" and refused to be part of any re-build so trading for prospects and picks became a non starter.

3. Ownership - For giving that kind of power to one player to control the direction of a team. But in all honesty I can't say I can blame em, for not wanting to trade Iggy, he made them a ton of money, has been the face of the franchise, in their eyes he earned the right to be a Flame for life. I can't think of any example of a franchise player being moved where both the player and ownership want him to remain ... usually one will want the trade, and when that finally happened this year, Iggy was traded. With Iggy gone I don't see Edwards interfering much with Hockey operations going forward.

I don't put much blame on Feaster, I think he's done a pretty decent job of navigating the minefield of being the GM of an organization that was already on a downward spiral. He's made good moves and questionable ones, as all GM's do! ... Mike Gillis traded away their future franchise centre for a bag of pucks and has since been desperately searching for a centre since the move, talk about LOL or how about Philly gutting their core to invest in a goaltender that just plain sucks.

Its going to be 4-5 years until this team is relevant again, expecting anything but was unrealistic on the part of the fans. LA, Chicago, Pittsburgh were bad for a number of years before they won the cup, they didn't just turn it around in 2 years with a simple re-tool. People will point to Philly and Ottawa as examples of a quick turn around, but neither team has won a cup or is a cup contender.

Maybe I'm just a glass half full kinda guy, but right now I'm looking forward to a lineup next year where we'll have Backlund/Glencross/Stempniak to play the tough minutes and Barkov or Mckinnon/Sven/tanguy as the 2nd line. We'll probably finish in lottery territory again, but that's just part of the slow process of building a team from scratch.

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#20 suba steve
April 03 2013, 01:31PM
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@Nick T

"I think you are giving Feaster a bit too much credit in many areas but let's start with the draft. In the mid 1990 through 2002,s primarily Craig Button regime Calgary had a period of unprecendented high picks due to poor season results; 1996-7 5th 1997-8 5th 1998-9 8th 1999-0 6th 2000-1 11th 2001-2 9th"

I know Flames have never drafted higher then 6th. In checking your info on Flame draft position from '97 to 2002, you had them all wrong, every single one. Thanks for coming out.

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#21 Casey
April 03 2013, 10:10AM
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They *REALLY* should have traded him when his NMC expired. We all knew it and ownership really dropped the ball. I don't begrudge him for retiring. That has always been the plan.

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#22 icedawg_42
April 03 2013, 10:10AM
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Agreed on the management failure part. I've accepted it wholeheartedly though. I don't know how anyone can really still believe this is going to be a 2-3 year "retool"...by the time the smoke clears, this will look more and more like an Oilers style demolition and reset from scratch.

That said - I don't understand the surprise, or the hostility towards Kipper. This guy has hidden so many holes in this roster for a long time. His numbers may have been sketchy, but I believe a lot of that was from playing behind a poor/shoddy team. I think if the guy wants to quietly ride off into the sunset, let him be.

That said, it would be really cool of him to honor that last year and backup/mentor whoever the next guy turns out to be.

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#23 clYDE
April 03 2013, 10:12AM
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With this rebuild starting too late to even get 1 prospect with a chance of playing next year, we are going to see some hockey over the next 5 years that makes us long for the Young Guns era. What a mess this organization is in.

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#24 Colin.S
April 03 2013, 10:14AM
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I said it in the other thread, if he wants to stay here, let him stay, but keep him on the bench, the management NEEDS to send a message.

With giving Iggy full run to decide what and where he wants to go that was acceptable but again shows management bending over to players.

In the Bouwmeester trade I listened to Overtime on the Fan for all of 5 secs before I had to turn it off, but Steinberg mentioned that the reason they traded Bouwmeester now rather than the offseason was cause he wasn't HAPPY here. Really, now we are just trading assests for marginal return cause they are a little unhappy?

And now we are not putting the foot to the floor and telling Kipper he has over a year left on his deal and he can be traded, if he doesn't like it Retire.

I say sit Kipper, bench him, give him the last home game of the season. If he feels like he doesn't want to compete or go to a team that really wants to acquire him, I don't want to see him getting starts here either. I want the team to ice the best possible team it can, if Kipper's family is most important to him, good let the other goalies that want to play, play.

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#25 Bean-counting cowboy
April 03 2013, 10:15AM
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My prediction: with the mental pressure off, Kipper goes on a tear the last games of the year vaulting the Flames to the 12th overall pick!!

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#26 BurningSensation
April 03 2013, 10:19AM
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My quibble is with including the sins of the past regime in with the issues of the current.

Without a doubt the Phaneuf trade is one of the all-time worst trades in Flames history (up with Brett Hull for Walmsley and Ramage - and without the mitigation of a cup win), but that is hardly fair to smear Feaster with.

The Langkow trade isn't one that bothers me all that much. His value was in decline for sure, but we traded him after a catastrophic injury, and got a useful piece back. I think most reasonable people would call the return we got for him under those circumstances to be more than adequate.

Likewise, the NMC of J-Bo and Iggy are part of what hamstrung their trade value. That said, from the look of things so far this year the only team to land 1st rnd picks in deadline deals is...us. So I'm not exactly outraged by the return.

Lastly, the dearth of prospects and their development is directly tied to the former regime and not the current one. I would think that even the harshest critics of Feaster (of which there are no shortage around here) would concede that if he has done nothing else he has rebuilt the talent procurement side of the team, and had three solid to excellent drafts in a row. This is reason #1 that I am bullish on the returns we received for JBo and Iggy - the one thing our current regime has going for it is that they have been able to work the draft to produce quality prospects in a way that the previous regime never did.

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#27 SeanCharles
April 03 2013, 10:19AM
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Can you imagine if we traded him last season?

He was by far our most valuable asset last season....

It doesn't overly matter now cause we wouldnt have gotten much for him today.

I think he has some mental hurdles to overcome this year (heard there were medical problems with his wife..?) and he wasnt able to overcome it.

I know the Flames havent played well in front of him this year but Kipper has continuously rotated a good year followed by a bad year.

It sucks that Kipper and Iggy were wasted assets, to a certain extent, but the new era of Flames has begun...

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#28 FauxRumors
April 03 2013, 10:26AM
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I say the Flames do 1 of 2 things with Kipper...

1. SIT THE BUM...let him ride the pine the rest of the year...maybe even HEALTHY SCRATCH him the rest of the year.

Or...even better...

2. Put him on Waivers...when no one claims him assign him to Abbotsford...when he doesn't report...SUSPEND HIM!

GOOD RIDDANCE...nice loyalty to the team that grabbed you off the scrap heap in San Jose and gave you a career. Good to see you win ZILCH in Calgary. GOOD RIDDANCE! #CLASSLESS #OVERRATED

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#29 SmellOfVictory
April 03 2013, 10:28AM
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icedawg_42 wrote:

Agreed on the management failure part. I've accepted it wholeheartedly though. I don't know how anyone can really still believe this is going to be a 2-3 year "retool"...by the time the smoke clears, this will look more and more like an Oilers style demolition and reset from scratch.

That said - I don't understand the surprise, or the hostility towards Kipper. This guy has hidden so many holes in this roster for a long time. His numbers may have been sketchy, but I believe a lot of that was from playing behind a poor/shoddy team. I think if the guy wants to quietly ride off into the sunset, let him be.

That said, it would be really cool of him to honor that last year and backup/mentor whoever the next guy turns out to be.

May be quicker than theirs, though. The Flames have a better supporting cast than the Oil have had over the past six seasons, and they have three, currently, first round picks in the 2013 draft as opposed to Edmonton's one pick in the 2010 draft.

As long as the Flames don't entirely crap the bed from a drafting perspective with a bunch of off-board picks (which is my greatest fear), they've got a good jump start to things.

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#30 clYDE
April 03 2013, 10:29AM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

The state of the organization is tied to both regimes. Sutter screwed up the Phaneuf trade and drafting stunk in his epoch, but Feaster came in and opted to run Iginla, Kipper into the ground, moved Regehr for not all that much and recently rushed to trade Bouwmeester when he had a lot more time and leverage to maximize the return.

The Langkow trade ends up as the only win and even then Calgary didn't add a single future asset in that deal.

The disaster is culminating on Feaster's watch and it's not ALL his fault, but it's not like he's done anything to mitigate it.

Totally agree Kent. I would like to add that if things appear to be better at the draft table with Feaster as many feel and I hope, when will we see even 1 of his drafts become a regular on the team? They have to start making it next year as we have no other options.

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#31 Michael
April 03 2013, 10:33AM
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The problem is that pretty well everyone outside the organization say this train wreck coming years ago. I'm at a loss to explain why the Flames front office buried their head's in the sand and did nothing for years. The buck stops on the GM desk, this is Feasters third trade deadline, so he is ultimately responsible. While their is plenty of blame to be shared (King, Sutter etc) Feaster is the GM in charge, this mess falls squarely on his shoulders.

What is even more appalling, is the hit that the organization has taken to its reputation. Feaster has dithered and bungled his tenure as GM. The conclusion to me is obvious....

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#32 icedawg_42
April 03 2013, 10:43AM
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@Kent Wilson

I'm seeing some.

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#33 bruins2011
April 03 2013, 10:45AM
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the forgotten man wrote:

What sort of cosmic bunny hole do you live in? Previous regime???? Last I looked, Ken King has been President through this whole debacle along with Tod(d) Button as head of scouting and for that matter Feaster has been an executive with he Org for almost 3 years. Your cognitive dissonance on this one is astounding.

You used cognitive dissonance. Just awesome. Kudos to you sir.

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#34 SmellOfVictory
April 03 2013, 11:01AM
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mcculb wrote:

We are handcuffed by bad ownership. Edwards seems to have his hands deep in the operations pie. His loyalty to King is hard to understand.

Feaster has a bad rep with other GM's: ROR, Iggy last second switch, approving Kipper talks and his desperation move with JBow.

How would him allowing the other team to talk directly to his player give him a "bad rep"? For being too cooperative?

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#35 the-wolf
April 03 2013, 11:13AM
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Even if Calgary insisted on moving JBo this year, not waiting until the last minute was stupid. Feaster is obviously a terrible poker player.

Name how many better D there are in the NHL. JBo is probably in the top 30. And we essentially moved him for a signle first round pick.

re: Kipper - mixed feelings. By rights he should be suspended, but imagine the PR nightmare. Not one media outlet would side with Calgary and they've had enough PR nightmares this season already. So just leave him alone.

Truth is, he should've been moved earlier, just like Iginla, and by not doing the rebuild earlier, the Flames have made their bed and now have to lie in it.

Still, you'd think Kipper would want one more playoff run and shot at glory. Also pretty sure he can afford to move his family out there. We're only talking 2-3 months.

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#36 BurningSensation
April 03 2013, 11:22AM
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Dino wrote:

Are you Jay Feaster? BurningSensation is your pen name, isn't it?

I'd certainly like to take a shot at an NHL GM job, but no, I'm not Jay Feaster.

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#37 the-wolf
April 03 2013, 11:23AM
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@BurningSensation

- Regehr netted 2 2nd rounders 2 years after we moved him. We moved Regehr WITH a 2nd round pick. Would it not have been wiser to merely eat the last year of that Kotalik contract? I say yes.

- Teams can sort out their cap spaces far better in the off-season. So why not wait? Even if you wanted to move him now, why not wait until today for the best offer? Why 2 days ago? And why not hold back salary for a better return? A 4M JBo, not dealt until today would've commanded a far better return as more teams would've been in it and more desperation accumualted.

- Feaster now admits he wasn't "intellectually honest." In other words, he told ownership what they wanted to hear in order to get the job. And it wasn't like other sources weren't telling the Flames it was time to rebuild. It wasn't some secret or anything. After missing the playoffs for the 3rd time last season, that should've been the last straw, but Feaster thought he was smarter than everyone else. Arrogance.

- Every team has bad luck and injuries. Ottawa is managing.

- Talent is collateral. The Oil can do any number of things now to fill in their holes BECAUSE they have star power.

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#38 BurningSensation
April 03 2013, 11:24AM
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the-wolf wrote:

Even if Calgary insisted on moving JBo this year, not waiting until the last minute was stupid. Feaster is obviously a terrible poker player.

Name how many better D there are in the NHL. JBo is probably in the top 30. And we essentially moved him for a signle first round pick.

re: Kipper - mixed feelings. By rights he should be suspended, but imagine the PR nightmare. Not one media outlet would side with Calgary and they've had enough PR nightmares this season already. So just leave him alone.

Truth is, he should've been moved earlier, just like Iginla, and by not doing the rebuild earlier, the Flames have made their bed and now have to lie in it.

Still, you'd think Kipper would want one more playoff run and shot at glory. Also pretty sure he can afford to move his family out there. We're only talking 2-3 months.

Calgary is the only team to collect any high picks (1st rounders) in this trade deadline, and we didn't eat any salary, or even add any salary in return.

Waiting to get a better offer presumes that a better offer was to be had by waiting - and I don't see how that could be the case. Waiting an extra 24 hours to do the JBo wouldn't have likely changed anything, and could have made it worse.

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#39 the-wolf
April 03 2013, 11:24AM
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mcculb wrote:

We are handcuffed by bad ownership. Edwards seems to have his hands deep in the operations pie. His loyalty to King is hard to understand.

Feaster has a bad rep with other GM's: ROR, Iggy last second switch, approving Kipper talks and his desperation move with JBow.

Actually, his loyalty to KK is one thing that's easy to understand. From no profits to enormous profits since KK came in.

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#40 the-wolf
April 03 2013, 11:28AM
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BurningSensation wrote:

Calgary is the only team to collect any high picks (1st rounders) in this trade deadline, and we didn't eat any salary, or even add any salary in return.

Waiting to get a better offer presumes that a better offer was to be had by waiting - and I don't see how that could be the case. Waiting an extra 24 hours to do the JBo wouldn't have likely changed anything, and could have made it worse.

If they'd eaten salary and I can't figure out why they didn't, than waiting would've made sense. Under the circumstance that existed (not eating salary), no, it would not have made a difference.

The only thing I can think of is that Feaster, once again smarter than everyone else on the planet, thinks he can use that cap space to buy his way out of trouble this summer. He's actually basically said that. I just have a hard time envisioning it to work for a number of reasons.

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#41 Rain Dogs
April 03 2013, 11:30AM
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Well said Kent. A once very good to great core turned into little to nothing.

What a shame.

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#42 BurningSensation
April 03 2013, 11:31AM
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Here is the 'bright side of where we are;

Pick one of the following (from Hockey's Future)

1 Seth Jones D 10/03/94 R 6.03.5 208 Portland WHL 1 2 Valeri Nichushkin C 03/04/95 L 6.04 196 Chelyabinsk RusS 3 Nathan MacKinnon C 09/01/95 R 6.00 182 Halifax QMJHL 2 4 Jonathan Drouin LW 03/27/95 L 5.10.75 185 Halifax QMJHL 5 Darnell Nurse D 02/04/95 L 6.03.5 189 Sault Ste. Marie OHL 6 Nikita Zadorov D 04/15/95 L 6.05.25 230 London OHL 9 7 Aleksander Barkov F 09/02/95 L 6.02 205 Tappara FinE 4 8 Sean Monahan C 10/12/94 L 6.02 186 Ottawa OHL 5 9 Elias Lindholm C 12/02/94 R 5.11.75 181 Brynas SweE 6 10 Rasmus Ristolainen D 10/27/94 R 6.04 207 TPS Turku FinE

(Personally, I'm hoping/praying for MacKinnon or Barkov)

Then with the StLouis #1, pick one of the following:

11 Curtis Lazar C 02/02/95 R 5.11.75 193 Edmonton WHL 11 12 Ryan Pulock D 10/06/94 R 6.00.5 211 Brandon WHL 17 13 Hunter Shinkaruk C 10/13/94 L 5.11 175 Medicine Hat WHL 14 14 Jason Dickinson LW 07/04/95 L 6.01.25 179 Guelph OHL 13 15 Valentin Zykov RW 05/15/95 R 6.00 210 Baie-Comeau QMJHL 16 16 Andre Burakowsky LW 02/09/95 L 6.01.5 176 Malmo SweAl 17 Josh Morrissey D 03/29/95 L 5.11.75 182 Prince Albert WHL 18 Alexander Wennberg C 09/22/94 L 6.01.5 174 Djurgarden SweJ 19 Kerby Rychel LW 10/07/94 L 6.01 200 Windsor OHL 27 20 Steve Santini D 03/07/95 R 6.01.5 207 USA Under-18 NTDP

(Hunter Shinkaruk would be AWESOME, but I like Zykov, Burakowsky, and Rychel too)

Then with the Pittsburgh #1 pick one of the following:

23 Bo Horvat C 04/05/95 L 6.00.25 200 London OHL 22 24 Madison Bowey D 04/22/95 R 6.00.75 200 Kelowna WHL 32 25 JT Compher C 04/08/95 R 5.10.5 184 USA Under-18 NTDP 26 Adam Erne F 04/20/95 L 6.01 195 Quebec QMJHL 15 27 Artturi Lehkonen LW 07/04/95 L 5.11 159 Kuopio FinE 24 28 Max Domi C 03/02/95 L 5.09.25 193 London OHL 28 29 Nic Petan C 03/22/95 L 5.08.5 163 Portland WHL 39 30 Keaton Thompson D 09/14/95 L 6.00.25 187 USA -18 NTDP

(For my tastes, Erne and Kehkonen stand out)

If my own tastes were followed we'd have; Barkov, Shinkaruk and Erne to rebuild around - and I'd say those are fine additions to Brodie, Baertschi, Gaudreau, and Brossoit as the teams foundation moving forward.

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#43 icedawg_42
April 03 2013, 11:34AM
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@the-wolf

- Teams can sort out their cap spaces far better in the off-season. So why not wait? Even if you wanted to move him now, why not wait until today for the best offer? Why 2 days ago? And why not hold back salary for a better return? A 4M JBo, not dealt until today would've commanded a far better return as more teams would've been in it and more desperation accumualted. - yes! this!

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#44 the-wolf
April 03 2013, 11:34AM
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@ Kent Wilson - couldn't agreew ith this article more, btw.

This is why players needed to be treated as cold, hard, assets. And no, that doesn't mean treating them like dirt. You treat them like gold when they're on your team.

What it means though, is a realistic evaluation of where your team really is, where they're likely to go with the current roster and a realistic, objective, unbiased evaluation of every player and prospect you have and other teams have. And if you think that moving one of your asset(s) for another teams' asset(s) needs to be done because of your current situation and that said move will bring you closer to the ultimate goal of winning a Cup and not just maybe hoping to scrap into 8th, than you do it.

Nostalgia has no place in running a team. The Boss and Glory Days and all that.

Iginla and Kipper really were made to be bigger than the teamitself.

Jay, btw, did absolutely ZERO to change that.

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#45 the-wolf
April 03 2013, 11:40AM
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BurningSensation wrote:

One other option to use that cap space is to take on a bad contract (say Komisarek) in order to get another pick or prospect.

In many ways, cap space is it's own reward.

It is, but that seems like a roundabout way of doing it.

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#46 mattyc
April 03 2013, 11:48AM
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This week as a flames fan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee925OTFBCA

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#47 Shredder
April 03 2013, 12:01PM
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mattyc wrote:

This week as a flames fan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee925OTFBCA

Oh my god that's funny.

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#48 Scary Gary
April 03 2013, 12:02PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Actually, his loyalty to KK is one thing that's easy to understand. From no profits to enormous profits since KK came in.

This probably had as much to do with the economy in Calgary than it did Ken King.

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#49 Captain Ron
April 03 2013, 12:03PM
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mcculb wrote:

We are handcuffed by bad ownership. Edwards seems to have his hands deep in the operations pie. His loyalty to King is hard to understand.

Feaster has a bad rep with other GM's: ROR, Iggy last second switch, approving Kipper talks and his desperation move with JBow.

When Edwards does an evaluation of King it would be based more on the success of $$$ for the franchise than it would be for on ice accomplishments.

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#50 Captain Ron
April 03 2013, 12:09PM
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the-wolf wrote:

@ Kent Wilson - couldn't agreew ith this article more, btw.

This is why players needed to be treated as cold, hard, assets. And no, that doesn't mean treating them like dirt. You treat them like gold when they're on your team.

What it means though, is a realistic evaluation of where your team really is, where they're likely to go with the current roster and a realistic, objective, unbiased evaluation of every player and prospect you have and other teams have. And if you think that moving one of your asset(s) for another teams' asset(s) needs to be done because of your current situation and that said move will bring you closer to the ultimate goal of winning a Cup and not just maybe hoping to scrap into 8th, than you do it.

Nostalgia has no place in running a team. The Boss and Glory Days and all that.

Iginla and Kipper really were made to be bigger than the teamitself.

Jay, btw, did absolutely ZERO to change that.

I completely agree with this!

*Rings Bell!*

Like the reference to "Glory Days".

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