Flames Trade Deadline - Final Thoughts

Kent Wilson
April 04 2013 10:52AM

 

It's been a long, frustrating road leading to this low point. Some saw the iceberg ahead, miles out, and hollered warnings with increasingly hoarse voices. To no avail.

In some ways, the franchise's determination to stay competitive and relevant indefinitely was a noble one, but the execution lacked the same clarity and conviction of the objective. While the Flames haven't been shy about spending money or furiously shuffling various pieces around each season and off-season, they consistently shied away from making the difficult decisions until time and circumstance forced their hands.

So the rebuild is here. It should have begun earlier, much earlier, and unfolded more gradually, but instead the ship is felled and we have been thrust into icey, dark waters. Be ready for some long nights, cold nights Flames fans.

- Obviously my fearless prediction that the Flames would finish above the Oilers isn't going to come to pass. My guiding assumption was that Calgary's terrible goaltending up to that point would improve before the end of the season, but it has actually somehow gotten worse in the interim (with no help from the skaters of course). I also underestimated at the time the degree to which management would commit to the rebuild and, also, how utterly Miikka Kiprusoff would throw in the towel on the season. 

- Pragmatically speaking, that's all a good thing of course. Most of the time, below replacement level puck-stopping is a disaster, but the Flames are in such a position that it can only hope to improve their future chances of success. All that's left for the team right now is to pile up the losses and then decide on who amongst the top-5 they are going to draft in June. The last thing they need to close out the season is for someone in net to go on a hot streak.

- My anger at the conclusion of the Kipper saga yesterday was genuine, although it wasn't directed at the player. There have been indications for going on five years now that Kipper was no longer the elite goalie of yore and that trading him and his declining abilities/giant cap hit was the right move to make.

But, because of the way the team was managed and the way asset was perceived, there was literally no other way for his time in Calgary to end but the way it has. For years the Flames seemed utterly determined to run Kiprusoff into the ground. Well, they have. And yet another formerly elite, previous cornerstone player is rendered worthless.

The management team had one last, best chance to move Kiprusoff this past summer. His NTC was gone, he was coming off an a-typically good season he wasn't likely to replicate and his contract was nearing its end.

They didn't.

In fact, they didn't even bother to acquire a meaningful insurance policy should their 36 year old goalie fall off a cliff. It was a gross oversight from whatever angle you look at it and furthermore it was predictable.

It sucks that Kipper's time in Calgary has to end in such a fashion. As I suggested, though, it seems the management of the team was determined to hand onto Kiprusoff until he either broke or retired.

- I would grade the Flames activities this past week or so rather poorly. There's a sort of resigned relief that the management group didn't do something outrageously stupid like trade Backlund for magic beans or acquire "veteran leadership to push this group over the edge" or some such nonsense, but the returns on what they did move were completely underwhelming.

Particularly in light of some of the other swaps made yesterday. Minnesota and Washington both traded significant prospects for players like Jason Pominville and Martin Erat (!). In fact, the Pominville package alone (Matt Hackett, Johan Larsson, a first round pick in 2013 and a second round pick in 2014) almost completely outclasses what Feaster garnered for both Jarome Iginla and Jay Bouwmeester combined. It's also baffling to me that a prospect of Filip Forsberg's caliber was available and moved for middling scorer like Erat amidst the Flames taking bids on just about every guy on the roster, including former core skaters.

- Another area where Feaster came up short was pruning some of the dead wood. In this he suffers by comparison as well, this time to the Sharks Doug Wilson. Somehow the San Jose GM converted lackluster assets like Doug Murray (slow, third pairing defender), Michal Handzus (barely replacement level 4th line center) and Ryane Clowe (declining top-6 winger without a single goal this season until last night) into a bevvy of futures: four second round picks (two conditional), a third round pick and a fourth round pick. The Flames, with a number of similar guys on the books, moved Comeau for a 5th. That's it.

One has to admire Wilson's efforts. The Sharks are battling for a playoff spot and are committed to competing, but he cut against convention and sold off marginal depth players anyways, rather that desperately running around trying to add them down the stretch (when, in fact, their impact is going to be minimal at best). When I noted in my intro that the Flames have lacked the clarity to effectively follow through on their professed goal of staying competitive over the last few years, it's this type of management and decision making I'm referring to - how many trade deadlines have come and gone where Calgary has needlessly hung onto (or needlessly acquired) bit pieces because they were "going for it"?

- On a more general note, it was a fascinating deadline to watch unfold. We often talk about "the trade market" as it was a single cohesive (and open) exchange of information and bartering, but clearly it can actually fragment into a series of individual negotiations in various virtual antechambers across the league. It seems these then develop into temporary "micro-markets", like maelstroms in the ocean, that really don't bear much resemblance to the prevailing winds.

High-end prospects weren't available in general - until they were. Big contracts with remaining years were hard to move because of the dropping cap, until they weren't. Jay Bouwmeester wasn't even worth a firm first round pick in 2013. Jason Pomminville scored two picks, including a firm first rounder, and two quality prospects to boot. 

Obviously factors were are blind to exerted some degree of influence on the resultant deals yesterday (pro scouting of each team, their weighting of future value, risks, the to-and-fro of talks, etc.) but it goes to show that trying to pinpoint and determine "the market" for a given player heading into time and pressure compressed events like the deadline can be a fools errand.  

39d8109299a9795cb3b41a4e9b49d501
Former Nations Overlord. Current FN contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#1 Alt
April 04 2013, 12:44PM
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everton fc wrote:

Perhaps the best news is Edwards wanting the playoffs next season. This ensures we'll be rid of Feaster/Wesibrod/Hartley...

I'd be happy to hear that Edward's decide's to sell off his majority shares.His latest qoute about making the playoffs next year is a good sample of a meddling owner who needs to just shut-up and go away.The timing of that statement tells it all

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#2 icedawg_42
April 04 2013, 11:12AM
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Well written and measured response Kent - unlike my tirades and whines over the last week. I agree completely with you on all counts

I think the thing that cheeses me the most (though I have NO idea what was or wasn't in fact on the table) is that Feaster seemingly went into this with a boner for first round picks of any kind, and COMPLETELY ignored any intent to add SOLID prospects. It's like he didn't even try.

I had a *ahem* discussion with Vintage at the game last night over the return from St. Louis. I firmly believe that if Feaster was willing to be creative and eat some of JBo's salary, that a high end prospect could DEFINITELY be had. The name Rattie came up in our discussions, though there are other options there.

I would go so far as to say you're being overly generous saying "underwhelming" and I'd say "garbage". The only thing that has softened my stance is that Feaster DID clear up significant cap space.

At least I'll be able to afford season tickets in a couple years.

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#3 SmellOfVictory
April 04 2013, 11:24AM
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The Iginla return I do understand. His comparables (Jagr being a player who was previously better but is now older and slightly worse, Morrow being a player who is younger and carries similar intangibles but was never at the same level) weren't far off in value. Jagr's return was very similar, and Morrow's seems equivalent when you combine all parts of the Iginla return and compare them to J Morrow (and a pick downgrade).

Iginla *should* have garnered a better return than both those guys, and I think he kind of did. Maybe not as much as we wanted for Jarome Franchise Iginla, but fair enough value for a top 6 rental entering his late 30s, leadership qualities or not.

Bouwmeester is where I see the real failure. Position aside, he's probably a very good comparable to Pominville; same age, similar value to a club, etc. The only difference is 1.5-2 million in AAV, and that's something that 100%, absolutely, should've been retained by the Flames. Because then a more Pominvillesque return might've been available (note: not exactly that good necessarily, because Feaster would've been dealing with different GMs than Regier was). It should've involved a prospect like Rattie, a firm 1st in 2013, and maybe a second pick. Instead it contained garbage, which is very unfortunate (also, why is there this insistence on collecting every goalie outside of the NHL?).

And the inability to move the flotsam or depth guys was unfortunate, but I'm sure Feaster was trying. There were rumours that a Sarich trade was in the works, for example.

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#4 Vowswithin
April 04 2013, 11:48AM
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@icedawg_42

I guess I should have mentioned common sense... Oh well, just saying... I hope I put a tax one of the idiots chairs.

I vote kent for GM :D

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#5 danglesnipecelly
April 04 2013, 11:53AM
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mattyc wrote:

"I told you so"

No, but in all seriousness, the returns are pretty underwhelming, especially in light of what Pominville garnered, but I'm not sure I'd give the week an "F". They were screwed around with in the Iginla trade, and had trouble generating a market that could absorb Jbos cap hit. I know lots of people wanted the Flames to keep some cap hit, but it just wasn't going to be in the cards, and it would also hurt our flexibility to take on a Campbell type contract while we ease in some young players to keep us competitive.

Really, the more I think about it, if we had ended this week with Boston's Iginla package, we would have at least had one B+ -A prospect to go with two 1st rounders to complement our own, which is about all you can ask really. Would I have liked to see a better return for JBo? Of course, but by the same token, if you really are 'rebuilding' and decide to hold on to JBo, you better be darn sure you'll get more next year, otherwise you're delaying the rebuild and are staggering when your prospects start to peak.

As for Kipper - it's a little weak, but the more I think about it, and Feaster alluded to it, that the package they would have gotten for him was probably nominal. As such, is it really worth dealing with all the backlash of dumping another "Hero of '04", especially given the storm management has already generated this year.

In summary, it really could be a lot worse. As long as we can draft reasonably well, we should have Bouma, Horak, Baerschi and maybe our lottery pick in the lineup next year, as well as returners Brodie Backlund. They're not all going to stick - and it isn't an amazing 'new core', but it's a start.

I like your optimism... We need more of that around here, at least I certainly do. It's been a brutal week for Flames fans.

Hey Kent, what kind of trade activity do you expect from the Flames at the draft? They were much quieter yesterday than I was expecting. I know Babchuck will disappear and Sarich maybe bought out etc but do you think there will be a market for Cammie or Tangs at the draft?

Also interesting to note that Feaster did not mention Backlund on his list of "untouchables" yesterday. Why he would even mention such a list is beyond me...

Oh and one more thing - that whole joint Oiler/Flames game day blog thing from yesterday, can we never do that again? I'm not in AB so I like to read along and get a feel for the game when I can. 400 Feaster fat jokes from drunken rig pigs drags down the quality of this site IMO.

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#6 VK63
April 04 2013, 12:11PM
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@danglesnipecelly

LOL.

Im a patch guy. Not a drunken rig pig.. but do notice that feaster is not as fat as he was a year ago. Perhaps he realizes that he too is "post apex"..... one can hope.

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#7 Tach
April 04 2013, 12:23PM
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@thprop

"All negativity aside I do like John W's abillity to identify talent."

Just curious, but based on what?

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#8 borisnikov
April 04 2013, 12:28PM
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lol, lol, l.o.l. Good luck guys. You're going to need it.

edit
Sorry to be so petty but you forgot to update the score in the last game/next game thingy up in the corner. It was 8-2 for the Oilers if it, by chance, slipped your mind.

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#9 Michael
April 04 2013, 12:34PM
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"All negativity aside I do like John W's abillity to identify talent."

Based on the so called prospects that the Flames traded for over the past week or so, John W ability to identify talent isn't talent at the NHL level. These guys are mid level AHL talent at best, and will likely never play more than a call up roll in the NHL.

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#10 FireOnIce
April 04 2013, 12:48PM
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dotfras wrote:

On a sidenote, I read a ton of the commentary on last night's thread, and coupled with the game itself, proved to be entertaining!

Shout out to Rex from Oilers Nation, that dude is HILARIOUS.

Our team sucks, and I can appreciate/laugh at CLEVER remarks by rivals. Obviously there are some tools on there with really bad chirps, but some of them were really good haha.

I really do hate some of those people. Reading their comments reminds me of why I hate reading internet comments - it's just infuriating, especially when they're like "WTF, WHY ARE THE FLAMER A**HOLES POSTING ON OILERNATION".

Well, you half-wit, it's because sometimes posts are cross-posted on the Nation sites. Your own writers are doing that. It's infuriating. Trying to speak intelligently and they're like "FIST! I HATE THE FLAMERS! LOL! TOLDJA SO! PLAYOFFS! HURK HURK".

RE: overpaying UFAs to come to Calgary. I'm all for that, as long as the UFA looks and acts like Zach Parise and has similar stats. Dump truck full of money for that person. Just not for players like Hudler or Wideman.

Anyhow, the Flames are fairly awful. The firesale is not going in any way like say, the Senators, had done. This is not a team who will make the playoffs this year, next year, or anytime soon really. I don't even know what I have left. No love. Not for Feaster, or the owners, or even most of the players, who choose not to show up on a nightly basis.

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#11 MAC962
April 04 2013, 12:50PM
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From an Oilers Fan, i feel for the Flames fans, trust me, we know what terrible management is like, we cant rid ourselves of the "Old Boys Club" and our owner is a dingbat, a rich one, but a dingbat none the less. These guys didnt build what you saw last night, you or i could have picked those players. Yes, i enjoyed the beat down, been on the wrong end for a long time but, between both our teams, there is not anyone in a management position that could build a team.

You guys got hosed on the return for Iggy and J-Bo, Comeau as well. There really is only a few people to blame for that. We have their twins in Edmonton. Its gonna hurt guys.

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#12 FireOnIce
April 04 2013, 12:51PM
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Everyone says, "Okay, we'll just draft Barkov, and Jones, and some other good players".

That's great and all, but what if they don't want to play in Calgary because we keep signing aging vets to fill roster spots? Or because our biggest claim to fame was bungling the Jarome Iginla trade? The Flames are likely to end up getting screwed a la Tim Erixon. Or turning their top picks into an army of Dustin Boyds and Matt Lombardis - 3rd/4th line checkers with potential for 5g 10a per season.

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#13 danglesnipecelly
April 04 2013, 02:04PM
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There's an interview with Feaster on the Flames website today... I think this should make people feel at least a little bit better about the "playoffs" comments from yesterday...

Also there's a Gaudreau promo video for the Hobey Baker Award that is "*@#^ing Awesome"

I've only ever owned two Flames jerseys in my life. A #14 Fleury and a #12 Iginla. Here's hoping that in a few years I'll be sporting the missing number... #13

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#14 Emir
April 04 2013, 11:03AM
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We all wanted the changes. We tried to figure what we would get for our players. We were underwhelmed.

the dust is settling and the flames are burnt to the ground. All I can ask myself is this:

Do I see anything good in these ashes?

I don't think so. But I pray I'm wrong.

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#15 Colin.S
April 04 2013, 11:15AM
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I think the reason we took a lot of older prospects is Murray Edwards absolutely insane idea that we have to make the playoffs right away. I guess we passed on high upside younger prospects and went the older almost NHL guys so we can add them in and try again? I don't know but when you look at what Feaster said and what he did, that is exactly what it looks like.

Once again, Ownership and KK are WAY to involved in running this team and both have no idea what they are doing. My absolute worst fear now is that they truly are set on this Playoffs or bust course and they trade all the first rounders we acquire along with our next years first to get new assets whether through trade or offer sheets. This years UFA crop is about as bad as one I've ever seen, so I suspect that we will target RFA's on teams that can't afford them, so I suspect we will be seeing another offer sheet if we can't trade for them. That offer sheet is going to look worse than the time that Toronto gave Boston the 2nd overall.

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#16 vowswithin
April 04 2013, 11:18AM
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I Decided to take a screen cap of the poll today and send that to Feaster and Ken King just for fun.

Thought they would enjoy it, Jesus I would give my left nut for a semi competent person with knowledge of advanced stats to be running the show.

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#17 Fotiu's Ghost
April 04 2013, 11:21AM
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Great post.

The price of players - predictably, I think - went up as the deadline approached. I think it's a real problem that Feaster was an early seller. Any negotiation I've ever been involved in goes to the bitter, bitter end.

I really think he moved too soon, that negatively impacted the JBo return. Iginla - who it seems had only one team on list - is another matter.

The comparison to the Sharks is spot-on. Then again, the "marching orders" are to fight for 8th place next year ... surely they're only a couple of pieces and a bit of truculence away from that!

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#18 Sanintarious
April 04 2013, 11:22AM
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It absolutely terrifies me that Ownership "Expects" the team to make the playoffs next year and anything less would be a disappointing. Montreal this year had some very different circumstances. They lost absolutely no one since last year from their core. With the exception of Cammy who wasn't a trade off and was more of a "hockey trade".

This is going to take 2-3 year's if done correctly. The flames are not a desperate financial team who solely relies on the playoffs to get all their income. They can take that time to rebuild properly and build towards a solid future.

The ONLY reason I want to see 1 of the 2 picks from the first round acquired from St.Louis (if they get in this year), and Pittsburgh is if they can some how manage to package a roster player and pick to get another top 5 pick with their own.

The next month will be interesting. Anything less then a top 4 pick IMO would be a huge disappointment.

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#19 icedawg_42
April 04 2013, 11:26AM
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@vowswithin

It goes way beyond knowledge of advanced stats, straight into common sense territory. How can you mandate "Make the playoffs right away"..then trade for high picks instead of high end prospects? Their actions completely counter their words...complete lunacy.

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#20 mattyc
April 04 2013, 11:29AM
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"I told you so"

No, but in all seriousness, the returns are pretty underwhelming, especially in light of what Pominville garnered, but I'm not sure I'd give the week an "F". They were screwed around with in the Iginla trade, and had trouble generating a market that could absorb Jbos cap hit. I know lots of people wanted the Flames to keep some cap hit, but it just wasn't going to be in the cards, and it would also hurt our flexibility to take on a Campbell type contract while we ease in some young players to keep us competitive.

Really, the more I think about it, if we had ended this week with Boston's Iginla package, we would have at least had one B+ -A prospect to go with two 1st rounders to complement our own, which is about all you can ask really. Would I have liked to see a better return for JBo? Of course, but by the same token, if you really are 'rebuilding' and decide to hold on to JBo, you better be darn sure you'll get more next year, otherwise you're delaying the rebuild and are staggering when your prospects start to peak.

As for Kipper - it's a little weak, but the more I think about it, and Feaster alluded to it, that the package they would have gotten for him was probably nominal. As such, is it really worth dealing with all the backlash of dumping another "Hero of '04", especially given the storm management has already generated this year.

In summary, it really could be a lot worse. As long as we can draft reasonably well, we should have Bouma, Horak, Baerschi and maybe our lottery pick in the lineup next year, as well as returners Brodie Backlund. They're not all going to stick - and it isn't an amazing 'new core', but it's a start.

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#21 Kenta
April 04 2013, 11:31AM
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Well said Kent but you are being too generous to Feaster. He is a bumbling fool who must be the laughing stock of all other GMs. D. Sutter left a hell of a parting gift for this now sorry franchise. He and Ken King need to go.

M. Edwards doesn't care what the fans think because he now owns all the major sports franchises in Calgary (Flames, Stamps, etc). He will make money regardless of how mediocre the Flames will be going forward. That combined with an incredibly docile mainstream sports media in Calgary means these bozos can carry on with barely a worry and we have no choice but to reluctantly keep filling their pockets with our hard earned money.

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#22 BitGeek
April 04 2013, 11:46AM
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I'm glad I was able to enjoy the last few wins while they were happening rather than cheer for the meltdown.

I've posted before that even if we finally reached the tipping point, and mgmt was forced to do something, that we wouldn't necessarily like what they would be doing. Of course there were the reassurances from other posters... "surely management will make logical choices once they are forced to do so".

Well, evidence to this point has just reinforced the fact that no matter what you wish for, the reality will be something different than what you imagined it would be. Prepare yourselves for more mind boggling choices from management and riddicule from other fans. This will be our reality for the next while. Dark days are ahead, and it's going to get worse before it gets better.

On a side note, I wonder how many other GM's refused to play ball with Feaster as some sort of statement over his willingness to do up an offer sheet on ROR?? Perhaps it was their small form of retalliation? Maybe that's why Feaster didn't get what he wanted out Iggy and JBo? I dunno, it's a stretch for sure, but who knows how much Feasters hands were tied behind the scenes.

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#23 mslepp
April 04 2013, 11:48AM
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"- On a more general note, it was a fascinating deadline to watch unfold. We often talk about "the trade market" as it was a single cohesive (and open) exchange of information and bartering, but clearly it can actually fragment into a series of individual negotiations in various virtual antechambers across the league. It seems these then develop into temporary "micro-markets", like maelstroms in the ocean, that really don't bear much resemblance to the prevailing winds."

Great paragraph here. And it's quite something to look back at the "deadline" keeping this in mind. But, like everything else seems to do, it reminds me of how bad Jay Feaster played his hand over the last 10 days. Playoffs next year? That proclamation might allow them to hang onto a few on-the-fence season ticket holders, but that's all it is; another PR move in a series of failed efforts. This team, without a much stronger direction and leader, is heading towards another long-term drought.

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#24 icedawg_42
April 04 2013, 11:49AM
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Vowswithin wrote:

I guess I should have mentioned common sense... Oh well, just saying... I hope I put a tax one of the idiots chairs.

I vote kent for GM :D

x2

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#25 everton fc
April 04 2013, 11:52AM
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Perhaps the best news is Edwards wanting the playoffs next season. This ensures we'll be rid of Feaster/Wesibrod/Hartley...

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#27 VK63
April 04 2013, 12:03PM
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icedawg_42 wrote:

It goes way beyond knowledge of advanced stats, straight into common sense territory. How can you mandate "Make the playoffs right away"..then trade for high picks instead of high end prospects? Their actions completely counter their words...complete lunacy.

Oh.. c'mon... once they fix this "post apex" thing. They are in the clear. They are BRILLIANT after all.

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#28 thprop
April 04 2013, 12:09PM
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I wasn't really angry by the "make the playoffs next year" comment after I heard the context. It spoke more to an unwillingness to accept a losing environment, which I am okay with (might not be realistic but whatever) Feaster has to say that.

I do think I see a direction for next year...with some possibillity of success. If I can read between the lines Feaster and Co. plan to improve this team via the draft and salary cap flexibillity. If they listen John W. and target players "pre-apex" as opposed to avoiding "post-apex" players(new Flames buzz-word) and are careful not to overpay they could actually improve the hockey club significantly in a year the cap is reduced. (remember a reduced cap is somewhat new territory lately). All negativity aside I do like John W's abillity to identify talent.

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#29 CJT6
April 04 2013, 12:10PM
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So there is a bright spot to come out of the trade deadline: it's caused me drink a lot more and my girlfriend told me if I don't quit drinking so much she's going to leave me. So I'll have all the time in the world to watch the Flames rebuild and turn into a huge powerhouse over the next few seasons... on Dynasty Mode on my 360.

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#30 Eddie Shore
April 04 2013, 12:14PM
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thprop wrote:

I wasn't really angry by the "make the playoffs next year" comment after I heard the context. It spoke more to an unwillingness to accept a losing environment, which I am okay with (might not be realistic but whatever) Feaster has to say that.

I do think I see a direction for next year...with some possibillity of success. If I can read between the lines Feaster and Co. plan to improve this team via the draft and salary cap flexibillity. If they listen John W. and target players "pre-apex" as opposed to avoiding "post-apex" players(new Flames buzz-word) and are careful not to overpay they could actually improve the hockey club significantly in a year the cap is reduced. (remember a reduced cap is somewhat new territory lately). All negativity aside I do like John W's abillity to identify talent.

Problem is when you have a bad team you HAVE to overpay FA's to get them to come.

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#31 thprop
April 04 2013, 12:17PM
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@Eddie Shore

Yah I do get that....I was thinking (hopefully) somewhere along the lines of an RFA in line for a raise that a club would be willing to deal before the situation went all ROR on them.

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#32 Artax
April 04 2013, 12:18PM
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I'm just glad we got a bunch of 1st rounders.

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#33 mattyc
April 04 2013, 12:20PM
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@danglesnipecelly

I want to second the joint gameday blog thing. I think its a fun rivalry, but its one of the few articles where I never read the comments. Even the intelligent/insightful comments from the oilers are diluted by 100 other ones.

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#34 danglesnipecelly
April 04 2013, 12:21PM
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@VK63

Sorry roughneck, I didn't mean to offend!

You are right though, I think he looks a little skinnier as well... stress will do that to you.

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#35 Tach
April 04 2013, 12:21PM
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Vis-a-vis Kent's comments on the fragmented market, I am curious how much the no trade clauses play in this kind of thing. While it is easy to look at the returns on Pominville v. Bouwmeester and get a bit depressed, Bouwmeester (as I understand it) had a full no-trade. Pominville's (again, as I understand it) was somewhat more restricted in that he could only list 8 teams he could not be traded to.

From a game theory or negotiation perspective, imagine I am a GM of a team and Jay Feaster calls me and asks if I am interested in Jay Bouwmeester. Right away, I must know that Bouwmeester is willing to waive to come to my team, and it is probably unlikely the list of competing suitors is very long. Maybe I am the only team that Bouwmeester is willing to waive for (a la Iginla). This must have an impact on how much I am willing to offer. If I know that I am competing against 20 or 28 other potential suitors, my leverage is decidely diminished.

Interesting off season writing there.

I guess for the rest of the season we cheer for Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Colorado? I don't think I have it in me to actually cheer for the Flames to lose.

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#37 RickT
April 04 2013, 12:29PM
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Kent for GM.

x 3 (or, at the very least, Special Assistant to the Special Assisstant to the GM)

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#38 dotfras
April 04 2013, 12:31PM
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I'd give em a D.

They got two 1st round picks & a 5th. A couple prospects to boot.

Last night watching the Edmonton game, Millions took note of how many 1st & 2nd round players were in the lineup for the Oilers.

Hemsky, Dubnyk, Gagner, Paajarvi, Eberle, Hall, Nuge, Yakupov.

That's just the picks that they've drafted & developed.

We have Backlund.

So although we didn't get enough for Bouwmeester (especially considering what Pominville & Erat garnered), we are now able to address a glaring issue in the organization. We have 3 shots at some high end prospects.

I'm frustrated with the lack of vision our ownership & management have.

There is no way in hell we're making the playoffs next year. And if we try, I feel like we'll be right back to where we previously were. Everyone hates on Burke, but look at what he did in Toronto. He stayed the course, heck, he was fired, but the fruit of his leadership & decisions are now being actualized.

I have a feeling EVERYONE is going to be sellers at the draft, so I have NO idea how we'll get rid of Cammaleri & Tanguay. That's scary. I also hope Feaster doesn't make any retarded moves to stay "competitive" next year. That doesn't mean we have to suck, but they need to rid themselves of the bandaid solution mentality.

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#39 Eddie Shore
April 04 2013, 12:31PM
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thprop wrote:

Yah I do get that....I was thinking (hopefully) somewhere along the lines of an RFA in line for a raise that a club would be willing to deal before the situation went all ROR on them.

If I were a Flames fan, I'd hope Feaster:

A. Is Fired B. Resigns C. Is all of a sudden much smarter than he appears to be (now that hes being intellectually honest)

As an Oiler fan I hope and belive, none of the above will happen.

Oops, didn't mean to include the quote. My bad.

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#40 dotfras
April 04 2013, 12:33PM
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On a sidenote, I read a ton of the commentary on last night's thread, and coupled with the game itself, proved to be entertaining!

Shout out to Rex from Oilers Nation, that dude is HILARIOUS.

Our team sucks, and I can appreciate/laugh at CLEVER remarks by rivals. Obviously there are some tools on there with really bad chirps, but some of them were really good haha.

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#41 Michael
April 04 2013, 12:40PM
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Flames sign Brossoit to a three year deal. The competition to replace Kipper begins...

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#42 dotfras
April 04 2013, 12:46PM
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Michael wrote:

"All negativity aside I do like John W's abillity to identify talent."

Based on the so called prospects that the Flames traded for over the past week or so, John W ability to identify talent isn't talent at the NHL level. These guys are mid level AHL talent at best, and will likely never play more than a call up roll in the NHL.

I don't know. I'd say the verdict is still out.

And I wouldn't limit the AGM's ability to two trades.

I think the Flames drafted VERY well in 2011.

I'm afraid 2012 will prove to not be as solid, but like everyone's said, the real value in the deals made this year are found in the picks.

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#43 RickT
April 04 2013, 12:54PM
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@FireOnIce

If the Oilers can land Schultz after having another 1st round pick, I feel good about being able to convince some kids with some huge amounts of ice time to sign in Calgary.

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#44 SeanCharles
April 04 2013, 12:55PM
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Michael wrote:

"All negativity aside I do like John W's abillity to identify talent."

Based on the so called prospects that the Flames traded for over the past week or so, John W ability to identify talent isn't talent at the NHL level. These guys are mid level AHL talent at best, and will likely never play more than a call up roll in the NHL.

Have you seen any of these new prospects play?

I'm not gonna say any of them are with out a doubt future NHLers but we don't know what they will be within the organization.

Its funny how people complained over how Iginla and Bouwmeester were overrated and more detrimental to the team over the last few years.

Now they are gone and we are all crying about it.

I like the Iginla trade the more I learn about the players coming back. The Jbow deal could have been better, but most people wanted him bought out last year, he's played 30 games to the calibre we expected within a 3.5 year span.

I'm a fan as much as anyone, and part of being a fan is talking about your team weather it be positve or negative.

But there is so much negativity on this website. CalgaryPuck boards are refreshingly different in their opinions on the moves to date.

Im not against having an opinion and expressing it but I can't help but feel most people who are extremely negative lately don't even know all that much about the prospects we aquired.

Another thing to consider is we need to see who we draft, or what we do with these picks and capspace before we can fully understand the impact, positively or negatively, these moves have had on the organization.

I have my doubts and worries but I think whats best is to give it some time because only time will tell how dreadfull or descent these moves actually were....

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#45 dotfras
April 04 2013, 12:57PM
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@FireOnIce

For most players, their dream is to make it to the NHL. There are really only a select few idiots who will refuse to play somewhere.

I think any guy we draft in the first round will be honored that we chose them, excited to be a part of the organization, and determined to make the team/make a difference.

As much as our management/ownership is a mess - did you hear the comments from JBO, Iggy, Comeau? Nothing but great things to say about the team, city & overall environment.....

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#46 Scary Gary
April 04 2013, 12:58PM
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danglesnipecelly wrote:

I like your optimism... We need more of that around here, at least I certainly do. It's been a brutal week for Flames fans.

Hey Kent, what kind of trade activity do you expect from the Flames at the draft? They were much quieter yesterday than I was expecting. I know Babchuck will disappear and Sarich maybe bought out etc but do you think there will be a market for Cammie or Tangs at the draft?

Also interesting to note that Feaster did not mention Backlund on his list of "untouchables" yesterday. Why he would even mention such a list is beyond me...

Oh and one more thing - that whole joint Oiler/Flames game day blog thing from yesterday, can we never do that again? I'm not in AB so I like to read along and get a feel for the game when I can. 400 Feaster fat jokes from drunken rig pigs drags down the quality of this site IMO.

Yowza, you must not go to many games! I don't agree with your mentality of trading Cammalleri and/or Tanguay at the draft, we need players with talent (whom are actually entertaining to watch) to get us through the growing pains, we can't sell everything off for picks (which are a gamble). Also how are we going to sign free agents to our team if there's no one here to play with (Circa 2009 oil)? If there's a time to trade Cammalleri it's at the trade deadline for a prospoect and a pick. Hopefully he lights it up so we can get maximum value for him as a rental.

I don't think Tanguay is going anywhere with his contract so you'd might as have him setting up Baertchi goals for the next three years.

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#47 Eddie Shore
April 04 2013, 12:59PM
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@FireOnIce

One of the guys who talks like "FIST! I HATE THE FLAMERS! LOL! TOLDJA SO! PLAYOFFS! HURK HURK" is the same guy who created all these sites. The great Wanye.

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#48 etownman
April 04 2013, 01:07PM
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Good article Kent! Lot's of smoke screens being blown the fans way yesterday but I don't see Jay being in control too much longer! He did very poorly on trade returns!

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#49 Scary Gary
April 04 2013, 01:12PM
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Kent who should we target for UFAs?

Filppula (united with Hudler! and maybe Backlund) Cervenka Weiss Clarkson Ryder MacArthur/Bozak (I know how everyone feels about former leafs but...) Stalberg Yip (i've always like this guy, not sure why) Kennedy (He used to play NCAA; Weisbrod will love him!)

Not the deepest pool...the RFA pool however :)

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#50 RexLibris
April 04 2013, 01:15PM
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On the topic of Oilers fans' comments last night:

I tried to step in once or twice with regards to some of the chatter.

I'm not a trash-talker, it isn't in my nature. Then again, I refuse to boo at a game, and I have watched some very, very, very bad hockey over the years. Cheer as loud as you want for whomever you want, but booing is not a right, as I see it. I know many will disagree.

Fans seems to appreciate the chirping back and forth and it does represent something of the sports fan culture, so there is obviously room for it in forums such as these. There have been several years now of off-the-cuff remarks disparaging Edmonton, their fans, team, management, players and so on. I think much of the vitriol that Flames fans had to suffer through last night is the result of that.

I'm not defending it, merely explaining a relationship. Nor would I suggest that it should be entirely removed from the online comments. But just like a 3rd line energy winger, we all, everyone on the Nations, need to know the line and go up to it without crossing it.

P.S. to dotfras : Thank you, sir. I'll try to keep up the good work.

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