Five things: Not a great start

Ryan Lambert
April 05 2013 11:43AM

 

1. The R-Word

The exact quote of what Jay Feaster said the other day in his post-deadline presser doesn't really matter, but what does is how nimbly he moved around use of the word "Rebuild" in describing what it means when Jarome Iginla and Jay Bouwmeester and Blake Comeau are traded and it seems for all the world that Miikka Kiprusoff will shuffle off into retirement at the end of this season.

I think he used "retool," and I think he used "getting younger," and I know for sure he used "intellectual honesty" when describing what he lacked in thinking this team was ever going to be any good at all. Darcy Regier also apparently said he didn't want to say "rebuild" to describe the dismantling of his pathetic roster, which by the way was and is still better than Calgary's.

I wonder about the aversion to using the word rebuild, because again, if intellectual honesty is something Feaster is so suddenly all in favor of leaning on, then call it what it is. This is a rebuild, and any rational person watching this team knows it was a long-ass time coming.

And so now everything, from the roster to the entire organizational philosophy, is different. 

2. Bouwmeester gone

I was surprised they actually did this so far out from the deadline, but then they were very intent on keeping his ironman streak intact for some reason. This was, to me, the real sign that they were serious about the rebuild. Stockpiling picks over the last two seasons is one thing, and so too is moving the face of the franchise, but offloading a minutes-eating defenseman who's below 30 and has more time on his deal actually made me say, "Ah yes, this is all really happening now."

Of course, the return they got for him was underwhelming. Moreso than the Iginla trade. Which was itself legendarily underwhelming. The simple fact is that getting two middling prospects with minimal chance of making an impact in the NHL isn't a great return, but I think even Calgary acknowledged that. The real thing that mattered here — and Feaster said as much in the presser — is the first-round pick. So why on earth have it be conditional?

The thing Feaster said was how good the Flames would feel entering this draft, deep as it is, with three first-round picks, but hey buddy, if the Blues don't make the playoffs, you gotta wait until next year. And then you gotta hope they tank hard. Which they probably won't.

So I don't know what the approach is. Assuredly this is the best offer they got for Bouwmeester, and rumors of the Red Wings' interest seemed to be predicated upon not giving up the first, so I suppose you'd rather they got one with the goofy conditions than not at all. But at the same time, you trade your best forward and best defenseman and get two mid-to-late first-round picks and four marginal prospects.

Great stuff.

3. Kiprusoff not

Which I guess brings us to Miikka Kiprusoff, who is still a Calgary Flame mostly because he didn't want to go anywhere what with his new baby and all. I get his reasoning. But when guys are literally being traded while their wife was in labor today, and given that the organization actually realizes it's rebuilding, that excuse doesn't really hold water.

I guess it boils down to the old "This is a business" vs. "These players are people too" argument, and I get that. But Feaster's reasoning — that Kiprusoff did a lot for this organization in the past, and the team would have finished less-than-30th without him the past few years — doesn't hold water. Iginla did a lot for the organization. Theo Fleury did a lot for the organization. They both got moved (though obviously for reasons other than "they're old and bad now," which would have been the motivation for dumping Kiprusoff on the Leafs).

This, I think, lends support to the Mike Keenan espousal of the standing agreement that Kiprusoff will retire at the end of the season, and that might even have been something Feaster hinted at if you wanna read way into some of the comments he made. But with that in mind, don't you just trade him and see what happens? Maybe he doesn't report, ah well. You tried.

But to not do it at all, and then lose him to retirement for the sake of nostalgia seems antithetical to committing to the not-a-rebuild rebuild.

4. Going For It, Part 2

Which brings us to the most insane-o crazy awful development from that Jay Feaster presser. The quote goes like this and is, I swear to god, 1 trillion percent real:

"Murray Edwards told me to have this team in the playoffs next year...that's my marching order."

Good heavens. I can't even begin to imagine what the effort to do that, which assuredly will either allow him to keep his job or, y'know, not do so. Maybe that's why he keeps talking so vehemently about retooling and not rebuilding. Maybe that's why he keeps bringing up cap space as though anyone cares about that beyond him since he's trying not to get fired. It's all so terrible. this team is doomed until Edwards smartens up (not happening) or sells the team (also unlikely). Great stuff outta ownership.

So okay, cap space. Guys who are on the right side of 30 — since Feaster has stated he'd like to get players who are not yet past their prime — whom the Flames might be able to pursue in unrestricted free agency include: Nathan Horton, Clarke MacArthur, Valtteri Filppula, Ian White, David Clarkson, Mason Raymond, Tyler Bozak, and a few other guys you've heard of but probably couldn't tell anyone a thing about their games (Mike Santorelli, Mark Fistric, etc.). Who of those players is a difference-maker that Calgary would want in an effort to make the playoffs? It's a real short list.

We can all agree, I think, that this team is absolutely not making the playoffs next year, even if they sign, say, half of those players. Which they won't because UFA's don't often pick bottom feeders.

5. A gross miscalculation

So maybe we've made a terrible mistake. Not that anyone should have ever trusted Jay Feaster with an NHL team in any way, but believing in him with respect to being able to pursue a rebuild while that garbage is coming down from the top seems unfair. No one could do that job. Not one general manager alive could turn whatever mess this is, sans Iginla, sans Bouwmeester, and get it into the playoffs.

686dfac3780611cb7acad6ce5166c6c1
Yer ol' buddy Lambert is handsome and great and everyone loves him. Also you can visit his regular blog at The Two-Line Pass or follow him on Twitter. Lucky you!
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#1 the-wolf
April 05 2013, 11:57AM
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Since Edwards became majority owner the team has gone just one way and that's down.

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#2 jason
April 05 2013, 11:57AM
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I just love how everyone wanted a rebuild and now you all whine about it. I say sit back enjoy losing and the next three years at or near bottom. Light at end of tunnel Conner mcdavid!

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#3 Casey
April 05 2013, 12:03PM
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We all wanted the rebuild. Now we've got it. We were never going to get the next Iggy or Bouwmeester in addition to first round picks. Now we hope that Weisbrod and the scouts know what they are doing. It would appear that we drafted pretty well in 2011 and 2012 (with an obvious * next to Jankowski). I feel a lot more confident in our ability to draft talent than I did under the Sutter regime. That is good... right?

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#4 Michael
April 05 2013, 12:09PM
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The Oilers rebuild may have taken five years and is still ongoing, but they didn't have a GM of Feasters capabilities, standing & "intellectual honesty".

I'm sure Feaster can turn our first round picks into lots of 'middling prospects with minimal chance of making an impact in the NHL', and can sign a bunch of middling over priced UFA with generous no movement / trade clauses. Naturally, if Kipper retires he will magic up a first string goalie from some parallel universe.

Isn't "intellectual honesty" telling Edwards that while the team will try next year, they have little to no chance of making the playoffs.

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#5 beloch
April 05 2013, 12:39PM
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I've been mostly happy with Feaster's moves in the past and recognize that his refusal to admit to the necessity of a rebuild may actually have been dictated to him by the owners. However, it's time for the dude to go.

First, the return for players dealt at the deadline has not been acceptable, especially for Bouwmeester. The mishandling of Kipper is almost comedic. If it was understood that he was going to retire next season, then he should have been moved last season, without question. That was probably the plan when the contract was inked with, for once in Flames history, a NTC that expired at an appropriate time.

Second, if Feaster's lack of intellectual honesty about rebuilding comes from Feaster himself, he needs to go. If it comes down from on high, he still needs to go because a GM has to be able to stand up to the ownership when their meddling is damaging the team.

During his tenure Feaster made some good changes. The stats-team and drafting look to have improved, although it's probably too early to tell for sure. Feaster might even redeem himself with some smart acquisitions over the summer since, if nothing else, his deadline trades have freed up some cap-space. Still, his hypocritical lack of intellectual honesty and/or inability to stand up to the owners indicates he is simply not the man for the job. The next few years are going to be tough and will require brutally honest assessment, hardball negotiating, and some very tough decision-making. The evidence indicates Feaster isn't up to any of that.

Fire Feaster.

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#6 JayD
April 05 2013, 12:46PM
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I have held seasons tickets since the inaugural 80-81 campaign, so have seen the ebbs and flows of this franchise.

Would still rank Cliff Fletcher as the best GM we've had here. But that was a different, totally different hockey era.

But then we had Doug Risebrough, Al Coates, Craig Button, Darryl Sutter and now Jay Feaster. Coatsy had a tough go due to the Canadian dollar and having to deal with our better players having contract demands (and probably realistic for the time) that we couldn't viably give.

But Feaster did win a Cup in Tampa. And yes, he inherited some of the foundation players, but he did bring in the final pieces. Drafting Brad Richards was one. And I think we've witnessed in the last couple of drafts, the only ones that he's had his people in control of, that the talent level at the entry level has increased. Weisbrod is a piece of that. Also turning Todd Button loose to pick the best player available without handcuffing him by trading first rounders, second rounders, or up and down, might just be now starting to be reflected in the system.

The Flames went through a 7 year playoff drought, a drought that some guy named Iginla developed in. And I think they really screwed up first round drafts in those 7 years, years when they were drafting more players in more rounds than they do today. I look at the Beartschis, the Brodies, the Gillies, the Gaudreaus, the Brossoits as being significant draft additions and want them in Flames silks in the next 2-3 seasons.

In the meantime, with the cap space created, I figure that the Flames will be selectively active in the free agent market, looking to add players in the 23-27 year old age group, maybe on their second or third contracts, guys who might have some upside. If St. Louis does not make the playoffs and we end up with a second first rounder next year, I would not be surprised if we saw an offer sheet to a high profile, high ceiling RFA similar to that tendered to O'Reilly (without the waiver question!).

The challenge that Edwards gave to Feaster, to make the playoffs next year, is not totally without precedent. Witness the huge turnaround in Montreal. Yes, it involved a fresh outlook brought in by a new GM and coach, but I think the Flames now have a GM and coach who are not tethered by some of the errors made by their predecessors.

Yes there are risks. Yes its gonna be tenuous and an emotional roller coaster for the next couple seasons. But, as a true hockey fan and one who has paid the freight in a lot leaner times, I like whats on the horizon now better than I did 12 months ago! The glass is half full. . .

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#7 Casey
April 05 2013, 12:48PM
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beloch wrote:

I've been mostly happy with Feaster's moves in the past and recognize that his refusal to admit to the necessity of a rebuild may actually have been dictated to him by the owners. However, it's time for the dude to go.

First, the return for players dealt at the deadline has not been acceptable, especially for Bouwmeester. The mishandling of Kipper is almost comedic. If it was understood that he was going to retire next season, then he should have been moved last season, without question. That was probably the plan when the contract was inked with, for once in Flames history, a NTC that expired at an appropriate time.

Second, if Feaster's lack of intellectual honesty about rebuilding comes from Feaster himself, he needs to go. If it comes down from on high, he still needs to go because a GM has to be able to stand up to the ownership when their meddling is damaging the team.

During his tenure Feaster made some good changes. The stats-team and drafting look to have improved, although it's probably too early to tell for sure. Feaster might even redeem himself with some smart acquisitions over the summer since, if nothing else, his deadline trades have freed up some cap-space. Still, his hypocritical lack of intellectual honesty and/or inability to stand up to the owners indicates he is simply not the man for the job. The next few years are going to be tough and will require brutally honest assessment, hardball negotiating, and some very tough decision-making. The evidence indicates Feaster isn't up to any of that.

Fire Feaster.

I get what you're saying about the handling of Kipper. It does seem pretty clear that they should have moved him last summer when the NTC expired.

Not sure that I'm buying the "standing up to ownership" part. All he can do is strongly advise ownership on the right path to take. He can't force Murray Edwards and his billionaire buddies to do anything. Were you sitting in the management meetings last year? We have no idea what has gone on behind closed doors. I have a very difficult time believing that Murray Edwards has been wanting to trade Iggy & Kipper for the last two years, with Jay being the guy dragging his feet...

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#8 dotfras
April 05 2013, 01:03PM
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Like what Feaster & co have been able to do at the draft. Hoping they can continue to make things happen in that area of the team.

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#9 JF
April 05 2013, 01:08PM
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The pick for Bouwmeester isn't really conditional... we get a first round pick firmly the only question is whether it's this year or next year (and if it's next year then it turns into a 2014 1st round pick and a 2013 fourth round pick).

I think the value of the Bouwmeester trade won't be apparent for a bit because we also get 6.8M off the cap by moving him. If the Flames actually use the cap space (as opposed to just pocketing the savings or blowing it on replacement level assets that it can't convert into future value) it adds an extra layer of value onto the deal.

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#10 the-wolf
April 05 2013, 01:10PM
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Can we please get over these "you all wanted a rebuild, now everyone's complaining about it" statements?

No one is complaining about a rebuild, just the people we have in charge of it and the fact that it looks like they're going to try and shortcut it back to a team whose max potential is fighting for 8th.

Just because fans wanted a rebuild, doesn't mean they have to sit silently while it's handled poorly.

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#11 the-wolf
April 05 2013, 01:15PM
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JayD wrote:

I have held seasons tickets since the inaugural 80-81 campaign, so have seen the ebbs and flows of this franchise.

Would still rank Cliff Fletcher as the best GM we've had here. But that was a different, totally different hockey era.

But then we had Doug Risebrough, Al Coates, Craig Button, Darryl Sutter and now Jay Feaster. Coatsy had a tough go due to the Canadian dollar and having to deal with our better players having contract demands (and probably realistic for the time) that we couldn't viably give.

But Feaster did win a Cup in Tampa. And yes, he inherited some of the foundation players, but he did bring in the final pieces. Drafting Brad Richards was one. And I think we've witnessed in the last couple of drafts, the only ones that he's had his people in control of, that the talent level at the entry level has increased. Weisbrod is a piece of that. Also turning Todd Button loose to pick the best player available without handcuffing him by trading first rounders, second rounders, or up and down, might just be now starting to be reflected in the system.

The Flames went through a 7 year playoff drought, a drought that some guy named Iginla developed in. And I think they really screwed up first round drafts in those 7 years, years when they were drafting more players in more rounds than they do today. I look at the Beartschis, the Brodies, the Gillies, the Gaudreaus, the Brossoits as being significant draft additions and want them in Flames silks in the next 2-3 seasons.

In the meantime, with the cap space created, I figure that the Flames will be selectively active in the free agent market, looking to add players in the 23-27 year old age group, maybe on their second or third contracts, guys who might have some upside. If St. Louis does not make the playoffs and we end up with a second first rounder next year, I would not be surprised if we saw an offer sheet to a high profile, high ceiling RFA similar to that tendered to O'Reilly (without the waiver question!).

The challenge that Edwards gave to Feaster, to make the playoffs next year, is not totally without precedent. Witness the huge turnaround in Montreal. Yes, it involved a fresh outlook brought in by a new GM and coach, but I think the Flames now have a GM and coach who are not tethered by some of the errors made by their predecessors.

Yes there are risks. Yes its gonna be tenuous and an emotional roller coaster for the next couple seasons. But, as a true hockey fan and one who has paid the freight in a lot leaner times, I like whats on the horizon now better than I did 12 months ago! The glass is half full. . .

Feaster did not draft Brad Richards.

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#12 beloch
April 05 2013, 01:21PM
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@Casey

I believe you should worry more about *doing* your job than *keeping* your job, no matter what your job is.

If indeed Feaster saw the rebuild coming (and I'm not convinced he did) he should have told the owners, "Look, I can see what the job is, but you're not letting me do it. Either let me do the job or let me walk." We know this conversation never took place because the job didn't get done and Feaster is still employed.

The Kipper situation really clears the picture up. There's no way Feaster didn't know Kipper intended to retire in the last season of his contract. Feaster may be required to play dumb so that the league doesn't come down on the Flames, but knowing the intent behind his players' contracts is a basic part of his job. He had to know Kipper would be worthless by this year's deadline, so he basically blew an Iginla/Bouwmeester level asset by not selling Kipper off no later than last summer. If all this is true, then there are plenty of five-year-olds out there who can delay gratification better than Jay Feaster!

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#13 JayD
April 05 2013, 01:31PM
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@the-wolf

If it was done by Rick Dudley or Jacques Demers, then I stand corrected, but I had understood that he was drafted on Feaster's watch. Regardless, he was the curator for 3 seasons in the run up to the Lightning winning a Stanley Cup. He was responsible for Dan Boyle, Darryl Sydor, Cory Stillman (hmmmm, who drafted him?) being there, players who all played significant roles in the cup win (even Ruslan Fedotenko!). I am not saying hes a genius, but hes been there and he knows what players it takes to win--that's my point.

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#14 the-wolf
April 05 2013, 01:34PM
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JayD wrote:

If it was done by Rick Dudley or Jacques Demers, then I stand corrected, but I had understood that he was drafted on Feaster's watch. Regardless, he was the curator for 3 seasons in the run up to the Lightning winning a Stanley Cup. He was responsible for Dan Boyle, Darryl Sydor, Cory Stillman (hmmmm, who drafted him?) being there, players who all played significant roles in the cup win (even Ruslan Fedotenko!). I am not saying hes a genius, but hes been there and he knows what players it takes to win--that's my point.

Yup, fair enough.

It's my understanding he did get hired in 1998, but that was Assistant GM. It'd be about 3 years later when he took over.

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#15 Robert Johnson
April 05 2013, 01:36PM
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Cheer Up!

At least your Calgary Flames are getting attention on the International sports betting scene. Found this article today:

National Hockey League Handicapping Tips: California Cruising

Calgary made a lot of trade deadline noise as they shipped their beloved Captain Jerome Iginla to Pittsburgh and top defenseman Jay Bowmeister to St. Louis – in return for a bunch of hopes and dreams. Coming off an 8-2 beat down on Wednesday night, at home and to their Provincial rivals the Edmonton Oilers, the Flames are barley flickering. Playoffs are a pipe dream in Cowtown once again this season as Calgary is on a 4-10 recent run and have lost ten straight road games.

Sharks vs Flames: Bovada Betting Lines and Sportsbook Review Prediction

Checking in at the bovada.lv sportsbook we find that San Jose is huge home chalk at -1.5 (EVEN) ATS and -260 straight up. The Flames are road pups at +1.5 (-130) on the puck line and +210 S/U while the Over/Under is set at 5.5 goals (O -105 U -125). The only hope for Calgary, and it’s a slim one, is if Miikka Kiprusoff has one of his “I’ll win this one alone” games. We’ll swim with the Sharks in San Jose and the -1.5 (EVEN) puck line at the Bovada sports wagering website.

sportsbookreview.net

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#16 FireOnIce
April 05 2013, 01:38PM
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Regarding Kipper, I understand the whole "he's put in time, let him go" argument, and I understand the whole "he didn't win sh*t and now he's screwing us" argument.

Put it this way. At most jobs, whether you make $20K per year or $150K, if you showed up in the last year of your work contract, performed horribly below expectations, and then told them you were peacing out a year early, they'd fire your ass. No compensation. No benefits. No golden handshake. You'd be out the door with a crappy recommendation.

Playing in the NHL is like any other job. Better, because you're playing a freakin' SPORT that you supposedly LOVE and would play for nothing, but making $675K per year (minimum). In this case, $6M per year, to not make the playoffs in 4 of those 5/6 years. That's the same as getting paid $150K in a tech job and never actually creating a final product, just making some bullcrap prototypes that may or may not ever work.

Also, I never complain about the rebuild. I was one of the first people wanting to show Iginla/Kipper the door. I just complain about the complete mishandling of the situation by a bunch of talking heads just trying to please the robber-baron oil magnates at the top. Building a good hockey team WILL bring in the money, especially in Calgary.

"Build it, and they will come"

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#17 Peter
April 05 2013, 01:51PM
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Casey wrote:

We all wanted the rebuild. Now we've got it. We were never going to get the next Iggy or Bouwmeester in addition to first round picks. Now we hope that Weisbrod and the scouts know what they are doing. It would appear that we drafted pretty well in 2011 and 2012 (with an obvious * next to Jankowski). I feel a lot more confident in our ability to draft talent than I did under the Sutter regime. That is good... right?

Bang on. We got a bad break in circumstances and timing; last year the CDA was coming up which severely limited the value of big cap players like Jay, Jerome and Miikka. Now that the dust has cleared on that, the value went up a little but you were never going to get a huge return; the cap is 10% smaller now after all. I think you can add the 2010 draft to the "good" side of the ledger even though we had no 1st or 2nd round picks. This is zero hour for management and scouts in every sense of the term. (1)You have big cap room, (2)teams that will shed/buyout high end and mid teer players to meet the cap for next year and years to come,(3) a great draft year (4) still a couple of players to trade that could add what you need if the right opportunity presents itself.

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#18 BurningSensation
April 05 2013, 02:02PM
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beloch wrote:

@Casey

I believe you should worry more about *doing* your job than *keeping* your job, no matter what your job is.

If indeed Feaster saw the rebuild coming (and I'm not convinced he did) he should have told the owners, "Look, I can see what the job is, but you're not letting me do it. Either let me do the job or let me walk." We know this conversation never took place because the job didn't get done and Feaster is still employed.

The Kipper situation really clears the picture up. There's no way Feaster didn't know Kipper intended to retire in the last season of his contract. Feaster may be required to play dumb so that the league doesn't come down on the Flames, but knowing the intent behind his players' contracts is a basic part of his job. He had to know Kipper would be worthless by this year's deadline, so he basically blew an Iginla/Bouwmeester level asset by not selling Kipper off no later than last summer. If all this is true, then there are plenty of five-year-olds out there who can delay gratification better than Jay Feaster!

A few years back now (what seems a life-time ago) I headed up a small division of a much larger media corporation. I had been there for a decade, working in various departments of the division, until I was finally given the keys to the thing.

Shortly after I was put in control I had a meeting with my boss, who was a VP, but not a senior VP. In it he expressed that we were going to expand into Quebec, and I was to draw up plans and analysis for making it happen.

I told him in no uncertain terms this was a disaster waiting to happen. Margins were too thin, competition too strong, and our supply chain wasn't capable of handling the specific language requirements to make it work. We had avoided going there for years for just those reasons.

He said, 'You know what, I agree. But it doesn't matter. This comes from the top, we are going into Quebec.'

So I had a choice. I could quit knowing this was a bad business decision that would cost us money (and my bonus was based entirely on us MAKING money), or I could man-up and do the job I was being asked to do.

So we went to Quebec. And we lost money there. In the meantime, the parent Corps also expanded into Quebec (and I suspect, also lost money there). But it wasn't about whether any specific division lost or made money on the venture, it was about extending the presence of the parent corps into every province, and gaining leverage for it's other ventures by doing so.

Edwards/KK don't want Feaster to say 'rebuild', because they think it will hurt the bottom line - not just for the Flames, but elsewhere as well. As much as owners say 'it's about winning cups', it isn't.

Like it or lump it, It's about making money.

It's all fine and dandy to say that Feaster should tell Edwards and King to go-to-hell. It's quite another when it's your own livelihood on the line. Feaster may get another shot at a GM's chair if he walked from this one, but he could just as, if not more likely, end up the next Neil Smith.

So we are all 'going to Quebec' now. Buckle up.

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#19 ned
April 05 2013, 02:07PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Can we please get over these "you all wanted a rebuild, now everyone's complaining about it" statements?

No one is complaining about a rebuild, just the people we have in charge of it and the fact that it looks like they're going to try and shortcut it back to a team whose max potential is fighting for 8th.

Just because fans wanted a rebuild, doesn't mean they have to sit silently while it's handled poorly.

…amen to that.

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#20 beloch
April 05 2013, 02:10PM
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@BurningSensation

Well, at least the beer should improve then.

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#21 FireOnIce
April 05 2013, 02:17PM
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Completely unrelated topic. But holy crap, Joffrey Lupul is made of glass. Dude's been injured like 4 times this season.

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#22 Dave
April 05 2013, 02:20PM
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Lots of people saying fire Feater. Anyone have any ideas on who to bring in if he were fired? Some people say bring in Burke, but I don't think Burke would because of how involved Edwards is.

I'm not really a burke fan but it's funny that the team he built in Toronto is doing well now. Nonis is going to get all the credit for it... I guess that's how these things go.

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#23 BurningSensation
April 05 2013, 02:23PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Can we please get over these "you all wanted a rebuild, now everyone's complaining about it" statements?

No one is complaining about a rebuild, just the people we have in charge of it and the fact that it looks like they're going to try and shortcut it back to a team whose max potential is fighting for 8th.

Just because fans wanted a rebuild, doesn't mean they have to sit silently while it's handled poorly.

Complaining is what you are really good at.

The 'rebuild' has been underway since Feaster took over, but nobody pays attention until it's Iggy and Bouwmeester out the door.

All that has happened is that instead of screaming about the need to deal Iggy and Bouwmeester you are now screaming about the return they got.

You recognize that ownership handcuffs Feaster on the one hand, but exorciate him on the other.

Scream, whine, wash, rinse, repeat.

I'll be the first to join in screaming if Feaster swaps our 1sts for low-grade immediate return (Valteri Filppula!), or drafts unheard of College kids in the top 5.

But I don't see that happening. I think that the team is going ahead with it's plans to rebuild on the fly, they'll draft three players in the 1st (because StLouis is going to make the playoffs, and the Oilers aren't), and top the roster off with some vet signings to keep us competitive and attempt to make the playoffs.

Scream, whine, wash, rinse, repeat. Will be the response.

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#24 If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin
April 05 2013, 02:37PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

A few years back now (what seems a life-time ago) I headed up a small division of a much larger media corporation. I had been there for a decade, working in various departments of the division, until I was finally given the keys to the thing.

Shortly after I was put in control I had a meeting with my boss, who was a VP, but not a senior VP. In it he expressed that we were going to expand into Quebec, and I was to draw up plans and analysis for making it happen.

I told him in no uncertain terms this was a disaster waiting to happen. Margins were too thin, competition too strong, and our supply chain wasn't capable of handling the specific language requirements to make it work. We had avoided going there for years for just those reasons.

He said, 'You know what, I agree. But it doesn't matter. This comes from the top, we are going into Quebec.'

So I had a choice. I could quit knowing this was a bad business decision that would cost us money (and my bonus was based entirely on us MAKING money), or I could man-up and do the job I was being asked to do.

So we went to Quebec. And we lost money there. In the meantime, the parent Corps also expanded into Quebec (and I suspect, also lost money there). But it wasn't about whether any specific division lost or made money on the venture, it was about extending the presence of the parent corps into every province, and gaining leverage for it's other ventures by doing so.

Edwards/KK don't want Feaster to say 'rebuild', because they think it will hurt the bottom line - not just for the Flames, but elsewhere as well. As much as owners say 'it's about winning cups', it isn't.

Like it or lump it, It's about making money.

It's all fine and dandy to say that Feaster should tell Edwards and King to go-to-hell. It's quite another when it's your own livelihood on the line. Feaster may get another shot at a GM's chair if he walked from this one, but he could just as, if not more likely, end up the next Neil Smith.

So we are all 'going to Quebec' now. Buckle up.

As a fellow business exec, all I can say is, 'Well put'.

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#25 Parallex
April 05 2013, 02:39PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Can we please get over these "you all wanted a rebuild, now everyone's complaining about it" statements?

No one is complaining about a rebuild, just the people we have in charge of it and the fact that it looks like they're going to try and shortcut it back to a team whose max potential is fighting for 8th.

Just because fans wanted a rebuild, doesn't mean they have to sit silently while it's handled poorly.

No, because this is what a rebuild looks like and after hearing people whine and moan about wanting a burn it down rebuild It's really annoying to see those same people whine and moan about it and pre-determine that it's being "poorly handled" five bloody seconds after it's started.

The people who made obnoxious use of the caplock button demanding a rebuild got their wish and they should shut up for a minute or two before whining about it some more and let everyone else have some peace and quiet.

They got what they wanted. Be happy instead of being misanthopic because it looks more like they didn't want a rebuild and instead just want some perpetual axe to grind so they can whine and complain in perpetuity.

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#26 Peter
April 05 2013, 02:42PM
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@the-wolf

We lucked out. If the Flames had won 2 out of 3 games against the Kings and Ducks in early March, with a planeload of Flame VIPs watching, the rebuild might not have got off the ground.

Unfortunately some people have to be humiliated in front of their peers and friends before they understand that you can't compete in the NHL with just 8 solid players (Jerome, Mike, Jay, Mark, Jiri, Alex, Curtis, Lee, (honourable mention TJ, Sven)), inadequate goaltending, and a pretty terrifying drop in quality after that.

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#27 Parallex
April 05 2013, 02:44PM
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@Peter

You forgot the name Mickis in there.

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#28 Avalain
April 05 2013, 02:53PM
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Parallex wrote:

You forgot the name Mickis in there.

Was Backlund playing in those games in California?

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#29 the-wolf
April 05 2013, 02:56PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

Complaining is what you are really good at.

The 'rebuild' has been underway since Feaster took over, but nobody pays attention until it's Iggy and Bouwmeester out the door.

All that has happened is that instead of screaming about the need to deal Iggy and Bouwmeester you are now screaming about the return they got.

You recognize that ownership handcuffs Feaster on the one hand, but exorciate him on the other.

Scream, whine, wash, rinse, repeat.

I'll be the first to join in screaming if Feaster swaps our 1sts for low-grade immediate return (Valteri Filppula!), or drafts unheard of College kids in the top 5.

But I don't see that happening. I think that the team is going ahead with it's plans to rebuild on the fly, they'll draft three players in the 1st (because StLouis is going to make the playoffs, and the Oilers aren't), and top the roster off with some vet signings to keep us competitive and attempt to make the playoffs.

Scream, whine, wash, rinse, repeat. Will be the response.

Whatever. You're the type of person who will get behind whatever the company line is.

Posters are you are exactly why this site has declined. "Oh, that person has a differnt opinion than me, I'd better insult them."

Edwards does handcuff his hockey ops in terms of direction.

Feaster, when he does make moves, tends to screw them up. He's still the one making the trades and saying stupid crap everyone time there's a mike in his face.

2 different things and not at all hard to understand. For most people.

I notice btw, that you don't knock the mods when their opinions/articles happen to agree with mine.

Why is that?

Whatever, your opinions are full of half-truths and faulty logic that's twisted to justify whatever the team is doing regardless of how bad it is.

Of course, looking at the results, whether under Feaster or the last 24 years, would support my opinions and not yours. But then, there's that thing called logic again.....better to live in fantasy land.

Sorry if I choose not to be a sycophant. And why you have this OCD need to constantly attack me is weird. And creepy too. I obviously get under your skin. People who don't tow the company line tend to do that with sycophants such as yourself.

I mean, what did I really say in my comment that deserved your response? You're just a trash talker. No reasoned argument, just personal attacks on whoever disagees with you. Except the mods because that would require a set of balls which you obviously don't have, other than the ones in your mouth.

Seriously, when have you ever been right? What were your predictions under Sutter? I'm sure you were a huge fan. Under Feaster? 1 year ago?

You're continually wrong and the team keeps getting worse and you were against a rebuild (until it happened at it was time to haul the company line) and yet you post like the Feaster is the 2nd coming of Sam Pollock. You're never right and when it's pointed out you attack those who pointed it out.

I've predicted the Flames to be out in the first and to miss the playoffs with exact precision the last several years. Along with many other. But you're right and I'm wrong? You're the most useless poster on here.You have about 2 or 3 other posters who ever agree with anything you say.

What "rebuid?" Man, you are stupid. Hudler and Wideman are part of a "rebuid?"

"Scream, whine, wash, rinse, repeat."

Whatever. "Scream, kiss the team's ass, wash, winse, repeat."

The team is never wrong in your books, which is why you always are. CP posters look intelligent next to you.

Normally I hate the personal insults on here, in fact I just posted on it. But in your case, the gauntlet was thrown.

Btw, you should get that "burning senstaion" looked at, I've heard it usually indicates a venereal disease.

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#30 Avalain
April 05 2013, 02:57PM
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Regarding the point about not trading Kipper, well, it's all well and good to just trade him anyway and call his bluff on retiring early. Except who would you trade with? If you didn't have concessions with the man himself that he was actually going to report then no one would accept a trade.

That being said, I think I would assign him down to the Heat and bring up Taylor if I wanted to call his bluff.

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#31 Dave
April 05 2013, 03:03PM
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Re: the-wolf VS Burning Sensation

I guess this is what happens when your team sucks for so long... I'm not looking forward to the next few years

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#32 the-wolf
April 05 2013, 03:11PM
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Parallex wrote:

No, because this is what a rebuild looks like and after hearing people whine and moan about wanting a burn it down rebuild It's really annoying to see those same people whine and moan about it and pre-determine that it's being "poorly handled" five bloody seconds after it's started.

The people who made obnoxious use of the caplock button demanding a rebuild got their wish and they should shut up for a minute or two before whining about it some more and let everyone else have some peace and quiet.

They got what they wanted. Be happy instead of being misanthopic because it looks more like they didn't want a rebuild and instead just want some perpetual axe to grind so they can whine and complain in perpetuity.

But it's faulty logic. I have never once complained that we were starting the rebuild. Not once!

I've also stated several times that I can live with the Iginla return due to the circumstances.

I'm glad Iginla is gone. There, me being positive.

Happy with the return on him. There, me being positive.

But why am I not entitled to have an opinion that the JBo return was poor? Because it was.

Or to worry about Feaster trying to shortcut the rebuild after hearing his comments re: what Edwards told him?

Those are legit concerns. I'm for a rebuild that establishes a young base of talent that can eventaully compete for a Cup. Not to spend that money on vets that will have us scratching for 8th again. And according to Feaster, it very much sounds like that is a real possibility. Various MSM types have expressed the same concerns. But what, no one is allowed to talk about that?

You write intelligent posts. I disagree with a lot of them, but you write well and make reasoned arguments. But I can't abide by this communist attitude that inhibits free speech. Disagree all you want, but don't tell me I don't "have the right" to post what I think.

Instead, based off of what Feaster has done and said, tell me why the Flames are on the right track. Why is it a sound strategy? Why was the JBo return good? Why was it proper that we didn't eat cap space? Tel me, why is that good? Why did we not go after Forsberg? How is Erat better than what we had to offer? Tell me, please. Tell me why Feaster was right in not waiting until deadline day to move JBo.

And I don't mean this as an offense to you, but there's a few people on here who think "if you don't agree with me, you have no right to post."

I've never once told someone they don't have the right to post their opinion. I may argue hat opinion vehemently, but I never whine and cry like BS (fitting initials) about "shut up, you dont't have the right to post, your opinion isn't valid because it differs from mine."

Free speech baby!

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#33 backburner
April 05 2013, 03:15PM
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I don't know what to think about Calgary's current situation, but one thing that has cheered me up a little it that I realized, If Calgary is able to draft one of Jones, Mackinnon, or Drouin, they will have 5 or 6 prospects that played in the Canada-USA semi-finals at this years WJC... not too bad.

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#34 Monaertchi
April 05 2013, 03:24PM
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Dave wrote:

Lots of people saying fire Feater. Anyone have any ideas on who to bring in if he were fired? Some people say bring in Burke, but I don't think Burke would because of how involved Edwards is.

I'm not really a burke fan but it's funny that the team he built in Toronto is doing well now. Nonis is going to get all the credit for it... I guess that's how these things go.

I think someone LIKE Burke would definitely be a better choice. Someone like that would have the truculence to stand up to ME&KK and tell them that their idea is terrible and that we're not going to do it that way, and if they insist, quit.

Not knowing Feaster personally, i feel confident in saying that there is no way he has the cohones or grey matter to do that.

@jason

Like the-wolf said, most aren't complaining that we're rebuilding, but that they are doing it wrong.

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#35 sincity1976
April 05 2013, 03:31PM
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I am as upset as anyone that it took the organization this long to realize the team wasn't very good. If they would have sold assets the last two deadlines and made the trade of their stars a year or two earlier we would be miles ahead of where we are. Shame on them. If Feaster gets the axe tomorrow then I won’t be shedding any tears.

But I don't read too much into the "must make the playoffs next season" comments. They just traded Iginla and Bouwmeester for prospect/picks and tried to trade Kipper for the same. They have said that everyone but a small list is for sale and they expect to be busy. They are rebuilding. They might not be talking it but they are certainly walking it.

I think the comments are more about getting the rebuild done quickly and not buying into a losing mentality. And I can appreciate that.

Now if they all of a sudden start trading picks for older roster players or if they refuse to trade players like Cammalleri then I will start worrying about offhand comments. If we get involved in a Heatly trade fiasco I might march down to the dome torch in hand.

But I don’t think we will. I am sure they will try and cash in their cap space by monopolizing on league wide cap dumps and by taking advantage of a free agency period where most teams are at the cap. But I don’t have a problem with them doing that. That is probably a smart strategy as long as we don't shackle ourselves to 4-year contracts we will regret.

Spend to the cap if you want to. Get as many warm bodies as you want to. I don’t think you have to intentionally suck to get a top 5 pick. Just keep focusing on accumulating prospects and draft picks and I am happy.

As for Kipper, I think most of that mess is on him. After the ‘I won’t report’ debacle nobody was going to trade for him without assurance from the player. And he didn’t give it. Not much Feaster could have done there.

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#36 sincity1976
April 05 2013, 03:39PM
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Anyone think Colorado is kicking themselves for matching the O'Reilly offer? They could be sitting pretty with two top 3 picks right now.

Between that offer sheet, the attempt at Richards, etc we are actually pretty fortunate that we aren't worse off.

Thank goodness Kipper sucked this season.

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#37 beloch
April 05 2013, 03:45PM
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@Avalain

I actually view Kipper's self-imposed NTC in a different light now. If indeed the understanding was always that he was going to retire in the final season of his back-diving contract, and Feaster knew this, then Feaster was trying to pull a fast-one on some other GM. Imagine the stink that would have ensued if Kipper had kept quiet, been traded to Toronto, and then retired in the summer! Kipper evidently didn't want the blame for Feaster's shenanigans so he let the truth be known.

I'm not saying that Toronto doesn't deserve to be fleeced a bit after what they've done to the Flames, but I can't fault Kipper for not wanting to be a part of a dishonest deal.

I can, however, fault Kipper for evidently retiring before Hartley has even stopped playing him.

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#38 the-wolf
April 05 2013, 03:48PM
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sincity1976 wrote:

I am as upset as anyone that it took the organization this long to realize the team wasn't very good. If they would have sold assets the last two deadlines and made the trade of their stars a year or two earlier we would be miles ahead of where we are. Shame on them. If Feaster gets the axe tomorrow then I won’t be shedding any tears.

But I don't read too much into the "must make the playoffs next season" comments. They just traded Iginla and Bouwmeester for prospect/picks and tried to trade Kipper for the same. They have said that everyone but a small list is for sale and they expect to be busy. They are rebuilding. They might not be talking it but they are certainly walking it.

I think the comments are more about getting the rebuild done quickly and not buying into a losing mentality. And I can appreciate that.

Now if they all of a sudden start trading picks for older roster players or if they refuse to trade players like Cammalleri then I will start worrying about offhand comments. If we get involved in a Heatly trade fiasco I might march down to the dome torch in hand.

But I don’t think we will. I am sure they will try and cash in their cap space by monopolizing on league wide cap dumps and by taking advantage of a free agency period where most teams are at the cap. But I don’t have a problem with them doing that. That is probably a smart strategy as long as we don't shackle ourselves to 4-year contracts we will regret.

Spend to the cap if you want to. Get as many warm bodies as you want to. I don’t think you have to intentionally suck to get a top 5 pick. Just keep focusing on accumulating prospects and draft picks and I am happy.

As for Kipper, I think most of that mess is on him. After the ‘I won’t report’ debacle nobody was going to trade for him without assurance from the player. And he didn’t give it. Not much Feaster could have done there.

Excellent post, very well put.

It's not so much the "make the playoffs comments (though they do worry me)" as it is when Feaster outlined his plan and talked about how much they wanted the cap space in order to go after players other teams supposedly won't be able to keep when the cap goes down.

I absolutely agree with Feaster's comments about now wanting players to have an excuse or be let off the hook. It sounded like backtrackign and some PR control, but I agree with it philosophically. A winning culture must be instilled.

If Calgary was a competitve team regardless of Jbo and Iginla and Kipper and made those moves for that reason I'd be all behind it.

But to prefer cap space over better returns in terms of prospects seems like an odd choice when the team is where it is.

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#39 the-wolf
April 05 2013, 03:50PM
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Sorry, typo, that should be "not" rahter than "now" in terms of accountability.

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#40 RexLibris
April 05 2013, 03:58PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Feaster did not draft Brad Richards.

But he did find a way for the Lightning to draft Stamkos and Hedman, back-to-back! That counts for something right?

Maybe he's bringing that formula to Calgary.

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#41 backburner
April 05 2013, 04:00PM
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sincity1976 wrote:

Anyone think Colorado is kicking themselves for matching the O'Reilly offer? They could be sitting pretty with two top 3 picks right now.

Between that offer sheet, the attempt at Richards, etc we are actually pretty fortunate that we aren't worse off.

Thank goodness Kipper sucked this season.

Ave's could have drafted Drouin and Mackinnon this year!

Just out of curiosity.. I wonder what they would offer up for our first?

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#42 Nolan Moore
April 05 2013, 04:09PM
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I'm still trying to figure out what John Weisbrod has done? I know he was the Collegiate scout for Boston during their run but there are none on the team and very few drafted. He was a pro scout in South Florida, i guess theres lots of talent in that part of the world. As for Feaster can we have a full analysis of his moves? i'm trying to think what hes done good so far and the bad far out weighs the bad.

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#43 everton fc
April 05 2013, 04:21PM
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Dave wrote:

Lots of people saying fire Feater. Anyone have any ideas on who to bring in if he were fired? Some people say bring in Burke, but I don't think Burke would because of how involved Edwards is.

I'm not really a burke fan but it's funny that the team he built in Toronto is doing well now. Nonis is going to get all the credit for it... I guess that's how these things go.

Jason Botterill, Asst GM with the Pens.

Paul Fenton, Asst GM of the Predators.

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#44 the-wolf
April 05 2013, 04:26PM
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backburner wrote:

Ave's could have drafted Drouin and Mackinnon this year!

Just out of curiosity.. I wonder what they would offer up for our first?

ROR??!!! HAR!

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#45 Chris
April 05 2013, 04:28PM
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Cheer up. It could be worse.

At least our GM wasn't plucked out of the ranks of backup goalies.

And, we don't have to buy out Kiprusoff this summer with a compliance buyout, like they'll have to do with Luongo in Vancouver.

Competition is tough enough in the West that Calgary won't be able to make the playoffs for a few years. Without Iggy and Kipper, the Flames will be unable to avoid high draft picks during that time.

The team will go through a full rebuild whether or not that's the stated strategy.

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#46 Parallex
April 05 2013, 04:50PM
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@the-wolf

I didn't say that you didn't have the "right" to say what you think (although as a private space you don't actually have that right the Nation overlords can prevent you from saying anything they want... they won't but they can). Ultimately the idea of free speech is a delusion both here and in the United States where it's trumpated most. It's more of a privalege then a right, and if you doubt that go say the word "FIRE!" in a crowded theater or loudly talk about explosives in an airport (and that's without getting into Hate Speech Legislation) and get back to me on how much of a right you had to your speech. it's just gratting to see people complain endlesslessly about something and then the second they get it start complaining endlesslessly about the how of their getting it, if you won a car would you instantly start complaining that it didn't come in red and talk about how bad the contest was? There are things that you can do and then there are things that you should do... CAN you whine and complain loudly about the Calgary rebuild? Sure you can... the question is should you. And IMO no you should not, not until you have some actual tangible idea how it is going and you (nor I, nor anyone else) do not. Your metaphorically sitting in a theater talking about how a movie sucks before the opening credits are even done. If I were watching the same movie and sitting in the row behind you I'd find that irritating.

And ultimately it wasn't directed solely at you hense why I didn't single you out specifically. Sure you and others can whine and complain all you want... and I can find all of your and their whining irritating and annoying all I want. As far as I'm concerned I have just as much right to say that I think they should all shut up for awhile as they do to not shut up for while. Free Speech Baby! ;)

"Instead, based off of what Feaster has done and said, tell me why the Flames are on the right track. Why is it a sound strategy?"

I don't know if it's a sound strategy and neither do you. Ultimately all Feaster said was that the Calgary Flames as an Organization are always going to try and win. Which is something that professional athletic organizations are supposed to do. So what are people upset about? that he didn't go out and declare that their going to throw games?

"Why was the JBo return good?"

Why was it bad? Did Feaster call you guys and tell you what was other offers if any were on the table? Frankly, I find it annoying that many of the same people (I don't know if you were one of them, I personally always appreciated what Bo brought to the team) that wanted Jay traded for peanuts or bought out are now complaining about the return. The Blues took a huge contract with no money back and gave up a 1st round draft pick and a couple of longshot prospects.

"Why was it proper that we didn't eat cap space? Tel me, why is that good?"

Now your getting into high level analytics (dollar valuation) that I'm not sure have been formulated for hockey (take a lesson from baseball hockey!) with a high degree of unknowns, fill in the blanks for me...

1: Were we asked to eat salary? 2: If we were, what was the exact difference between the offers? 3: What is the difference in value between the two? 4: Does one exceed the other

These are unknown unknowns and I fail to see how someone can claim that the return was bad when they don't know what the alternative offers were and when they don't know how or if the cap space created will be used or who will be available at the draft.

"Why did we not go after Forsberg? How is Erat better than what we had to offer? Tell me, please."

I personally think that was a dumb trade by the Caps. But what I do know is that the Flames have no one on their roster that is a easy comparable to Erat after you take everything into consideration. I don't see how it's at all fair to to somehow allude that as a failing of the Flames... presumably if the Caps wanted someone on the Flames more then Erat they would have called the Flames and offered Forsberg for it since it was obvious that we were, by then, sellers. "Tell me why Feaster was right in not waiting until deadline day to move JBo."

Wanted to get ahead of the Market? Why did it have to wait until deadline day? I didn't see anyone else forking over 1st round picks for defensemen on deadline day, which was apparently what Feaster wanted most. So when should he have waited until? Until the draft? Maybe the deal isn't there anymore? After the Draft? When teams can buy UFA's that cost less then Bouwmeester in an uncertain cap environment? What difference does it make... Ultimately with those two deals (Iggy and Bouw) I think they were probably the best deals out there (considering that he nixed the deal to Bos and would thus apparently only go to Pitt if was definetly the best/only deal available for Iggy) and as for Bouwmeester I've yet to see anyone demonstrate that there was a better deal to be had.

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#47 Nolan Moore
April 05 2013, 04:53PM
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Yes Feaster was brought in here for one reason, hes a YES man. He was to be the media guy for Darryl but when he was punted, they had no one else so he was given the reigns. He doesnt have a hockey back ground and i bet doesnt know much about the game. When he was in Tampa, his drafting OUCH. From the time he came to the org to when he left only 3 guys have gone on to have good careers, Lecavalier, Richards and Stamkos. With the first 2 in the first summer and Stamkos his last. Those Lecav and Stamkos were also #1 picks. The moves he made, some were decent but some were people who caught lightning in a bottle for one year (no pun intended). Forced Conroy out (arguably one of the most popular Flames) then gave him a job he didnt even know what he did. Overall i think hes done a below average job. He doesnt have hockey sense which this position hockey sense is the first qualification.

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#48 Nolan Moore
April 05 2013, 04:53PM
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Yes Feaster was brought in here for one reason, hes a YES man. He was to be the media guy for Darryl but when he was punted, they had no one else so he was given the reigns. He doesnt have a hockey back ground and i bet doesnt know much about the game. When he was in Tampa, his drafting OUCH. From the time he came to the org to when he left only 3 guys have gone on to have good careers, Lecavalier, Richards and Stamkos. With the first 2 in the first summer and Stamkos his last. Those Lecav and Stamkos were also #1 picks. The moves he made, some were decent but some were people who caught lightning in a bottle for one year (no pun intended). Forced Conroy out (arguably one of the most popular Flames) then gave him a job he didnt even know what he did. Overall i think hes done a below average job. He doesnt have hockey sense which this position hockey sense is the first qualification.

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#49 Nolan Moore
April 05 2013, 04:59PM
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Oh forgot to add, he took the job here because this was the only job he was offered for 2 years. Kinda makes you wonder, a guy wins a cup then cant find a job for 2 years? I think the hockey world knew he wasnt all that good to begin with.

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#50 the-wolf
April 05 2013, 06:24PM
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Parallex wrote:

I didn't say that you didn't have the "right" to say what you think (although as a private space you don't actually have that right the Nation overlords can prevent you from saying anything they want... they won't but they can). Ultimately the idea of free speech is a delusion both here and in the United States where it's trumpated most. It's more of a privalege then a right, and if you doubt that go say the word "FIRE!" in a crowded theater or loudly talk about explosives in an airport (and that's without getting into Hate Speech Legislation) and get back to me on how much of a right you had to your speech. it's just gratting to see people complain endlesslessly about something and then the second they get it start complaining endlesslessly about the how of their getting it, if you won a car would you instantly start complaining that it didn't come in red and talk about how bad the contest was? There are things that you can do and then there are things that you should do... CAN you whine and complain loudly about the Calgary rebuild? Sure you can... the question is should you. And IMO no you should not, not until you have some actual tangible idea how it is going and you (nor I, nor anyone else) do not. Your metaphorically sitting in a theater talking about how a movie sucks before the opening credits are even done. If I were watching the same movie and sitting in the row behind you I'd find that irritating.

And ultimately it wasn't directed solely at you hense why I didn't single you out specifically. Sure you and others can whine and complain all you want... and I can find all of your and their whining irritating and annoying all I want. As far as I'm concerned I have just as much right to say that I think they should all shut up for awhile as they do to not shut up for while. Free Speech Baby! ;)

"Instead, based off of what Feaster has done and said, tell me why the Flames are on the right track. Why is it a sound strategy?"

I don't know if it's a sound strategy and neither do you. Ultimately all Feaster said was that the Calgary Flames as an Organization are always going to try and win. Which is something that professional athletic organizations are supposed to do. So what are people upset about? that he didn't go out and declare that their going to throw games?

"Why was the JBo return good?"

Why was it bad? Did Feaster call you guys and tell you what was other offers if any were on the table? Frankly, I find it annoying that many of the same people (I don't know if you were one of them, I personally always appreciated what Bo brought to the team) that wanted Jay traded for peanuts or bought out are now complaining about the return. The Blues took a huge contract with no money back and gave up a 1st round draft pick and a couple of longshot prospects.

"Why was it proper that we didn't eat cap space? Tel me, why is that good?"

Now your getting into high level analytics (dollar valuation) that I'm not sure have been formulated for hockey (take a lesson from baseball hockey!) with a high degree of unknowns, fill in the blanks for me...

1: Were we asked to eat salary? 2: If we were, what was the exact difference between the offers? 3: What is the difference in value between the two? 4: Does one exceed the other

These are unknown unknowns and I fail to see how someone can claim that the return was bad when they don't know what the alternative offers were and when they don't know how or if the cap space created will be used or who will be available at the draft.

"Why did we not go after Forsberg? How is Erat better than what we had to offer? Tell me, please."

I personally think that was a dumb trade by the Caps. But what I do know is that the Flames have no one on their roster that is a easy comparable to Erat after you take everything into consideration. I don't see how it's at all fair to to somehow allude that as a failing of the Flames... presumably if the Caps wanted someone on the Flames more then Erat they would have called the Flames and offered Forsberg for it since it was obvious that we were, by then, sellers. "Tell me why Feaster was right in not waiting until deadline day to move JBo."

Wanted to get ahead of the Market? Why did it have to wait until deadline day? I didn't see anyone else forking over 1st round picks for defensemen on deadline day, which was apparently what Feaster wanted most. So when should he have waited until? Until the draft? Maybe the deal isn't there anymore? After the Draft? When teams can buy UFA's that cost less then Bouwmeester in an uncertain cap environment? What difference does it make... Ultimately with those two deals (Iggy and Bouw) I think they were probably the best deals out there (considering that he nixed the deal to Bos and would thus apparently only go to Pitt if was definetly the best/only deal available for Iggy) and as for Bouwmeester I've yet to see anyone demonstrate that there was a better deal to be had.

I absolutely appreciate your well-thought out reply.

I think, however, that those that you think are now complaining about a rebuild are actually complaining about the possible LACK of a rebuild. Iginla was leaving anyways and after that we basically just traded JBo for a middle 1st rounder. Btw, I strongly supported JBo many times on here.

Get your point on Erat, but remember my point is also predicated on eating some salary.

And I know we don't know everything. we never will. All we have to go on are other trades and to compare them. As well as Feaster's statements. Freeing cap space was obviously part of the strategy, no so sure I like where it's headed though.

By the end of the summer we will know far better. The rest we can go back and forth on forever, we obviously disagree and my time is short. Sorry.

I guess I just don't like it when someone give a blanket dismissal without really bothering to even try and see what it is they're saying.

But I wanted to say thank you for the reply and the intelligence behind it. I did read it all.

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