Random Thoughts - Flames Aren't Dead Yet

Kent Wilson
April 09 2013 11:26AM

 

 

Prior to the 8-2 Shellacking at the hands of the Oil, I'd thought the Flames had reached the nadir of their season at least one or two times already. I was wrong. Gutted and disillusioned, the Flames shuffled into the Dome that night and had their lunches fed to them by the upstarts from up the road. It's was grotesque and humiliating, but somehow an appropriate punctuation to the events that had proceeded it.

It felt like the team would never win again in the aftermath of that defeat, but the Flames have actually put together a handful of decent games since then, including the loss in Vancouver (entirely goaltender based) and the win last night in Colorado. Calgary was outshot by the Avs, but the bad guys were chasing for most of the game which I think inflated their possession and shot totals. The Flames still outchanced them in aggregate and that is despite icing a rookie heavy line-up.

I'll reiterate the general sentiment of the positvity post: the Flames aren't completely hopeless. They bottomed out, as was expected, but the low point isn't as pitiful nor as desperate as, say, the Oilers a few years ago. There are salvagable pieces here and, despite the near total lack of elite young talent, a base to build on if things are done right and the club gets a break once in a while. If the worst the Flames get is about 20th overall in terms of possession, then the rebuild shouldn't be as painful nor as long as some expect.

- TJ Brodie. Yeah we've lathered him with superlatives this year, but the kid just keeps getting better. Brodie's minutes and responsibilities have increased in Jay Bouwmeester's absence and his underying numbers just stay sterling. He has been in the black in terms of chances and corsi the last two or three games at least, a not insignificant achievement for a 22-year old sophomore suddenly thrust into a top pairing role on a rebuilding team.

I don't know if he'll ever score a lot of points even with his mobility and vision (still has problems getting shots through on the point), but his ceiling in terms of defensive responsibility keeps climbing. Brodie will be 24 for the 2014-15 season and it will surprise me if he's not anchoring the club's top pairing by then.

- If the Flames really want to turn things around and be a playoff contender sooner rather than later (throw out what Feaster said at the press conference about next year), then the 2014-15 season should be circled. At that point, Backlund and Brodie will be peaking, Baertschi should have his legs, whatever wunderkind they pick this summer should be a useful sophomore and the various vets they have kept around - from Giordano to Glencross - should still be functional. If the club has fixed its goaltending and hit on at least one or two more gambles in the Glencross/Bourque sense (be it via free agency or trade) then the team could be challenging for the post-season and be on the upswing at the same time.

- Somewhat related (and worrying): Steve Mason being acquired and signed by the Flyers proves that GM's as a class just don't understand goaltending. They can't seem to project it and they certainly can't read the market for it. Jonathan Willis and Tyler Dellow wrote on Mason recently - a guy who has been a shining example of how poorly goaltending is understood at even the highest levels in the league since his rookie season. 

To be fair, goaltending is really, really hard to predict or understand given the current state of knowledge. They seem to have different career arcs than shooters, it's very hard to separate their contributions from that of the team and even the "advanced" stats we have for them seem to point more randomness than skill, especially on the 82-game season scale. In addition, there is no single guy that can have a more profound effect on a club's goal differential than a goalie, which is why you see GM's running out and spending more than a perfectly rational actor in a usually saturated market would on occassion.

It's hard to make really good bets on goalies as a result (ie; a bet that is likely to deliver better than average puck-stopping consistently), but it's really easy to make bad ones. This is why you've seen the Detroit Red Wings settle for cheap, average goaltending for so long.

- Although he failed to act in time to prevent the goaltending implosion this season, Feaster has been active in collecting potential puckstoppers for down the road in Ramo and Berra. The Flames may get a chance to grab a decent starter who shakes loose in the next year or two thanks to their abundance of cap and budget space (like, say, the Senators did with Craig Anderson, who has been a big reason the Senators rebuilding phase seems so mercifully short), which could improve the redundancy in the organization and chance the team has at least a .920 ES SV% by the time they are ready to compete again.

Flames fans just have to hope Feaster bets on an Anderson and not a Steve Mason.

39d8109299a9795cb3b41a4e9b49d501
Former Nations Overlord. Current FN contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#51 suba steve
April 09 2013, 03:01PM
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@Mac962

I have a feeling you're right, Backlund won't be holding RNH's jock in a year or two...I would guess that Mac962 will be holding RNH's jock for the forseeable future. You may want to spray it with some Tinactin before you get into bed with it though.

Thanks for your interest in FlamesNation Mac962. You're in over your head.

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#52 Shredder
April 09 2013, 03:09PM
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Sean Bennett wrote:

Are you guys being sarcastic? lol. There is no way in hell Backlund has more potential than RNH, and although he may be better right now, that will not be the case in 2 years time. This is from a die-hard flames fan.

Thank you. I knew there were some sensible Flames fans out there. I know how biased this post will sound coming from an Oilers fan but...

Backlund (24 years old) has 6 goals, 5 assists and is minus 6. Nuge (19 years old) has 3 goals, 19 assists and is plus 2. Nuge had 5 less points in his first year than Backlund did in his whole career.

I don't want to knock Backlund, because he's a good NHL'er...but there's a reason everyone thought RNH was the consensus #1 overall.

I'm guessing you're hoping for the same from whoever you get in this draft, and I've seen a few comments that suggest you'll all think he's a better player than anyone the Oilers draft...Jones and MacKinnon are the only ones who I think have a chance of being in the same class as any of the Oilers #1 overall picks.

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#53 T&A4Flames
April 09 2013, 03:12PM
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@piscera.infada

'Scuze me... Troll, how is year 4 working out for you guys? Making the PO? OOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhh, so close.

Now you get to pick in the 10-14 range. Your GM actually has to GM now and not take the #1 ranked prospect. Good luck with that.

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#54 clyde
April 09 2013, 03:12PM
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RexLibris wrote:

How many games have you watched Justin Schultz play this season?

Brodie looks to me like a better-skating version of Jeff Petry and as a second-pairing puck-moving defenseman I think he is absolutely a key piece for the Flames future.

Suggesting that Justin Schultz is an overall inferior player sounds a lot like home bias, though.

Many. And last year. So between college, AHL and NHL about 40 in the past year. Schultz is a better pp player and as long as the game does not get physical is fine too. Otherwise, Brodie is much better. Schultz stops competing when it gets rough in his own zone 5 on 5 and is very soft.

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#55 SmellOfVictory
April 09 2013, 03:13PM
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Sean Bennett wrote:

Are you guys being sarcastic? lol. There is no way in hell Backlund has more potential than RNH, and although he may be better right now, that will not be the case in 2 years time. This is from a die-hard flames fan.

RNH certainly has a higher offensive ceiling than Backlund, and it's very possible (even likely) that he ends up being a better overall player in the near future. That said, the dude was talking present time, and at present time Backlund is better than RNH.

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#56 T&A4Flames
April 09 2013, 03:17PM
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Shredder wrote:

Thank you. I knew there were some sensible Flames fans out there. I know how biased this post will sound coming from an Oilers fan but...

Backlund (24 years old) has 6 goals, 5 assists and is minus 6. Nuge (19 years old) has 3 goals, 19 assists and is plus 2. Nuge had 5 less points in his first year than Backlund did in his whole career.

I don't want to knock Backlund, because he's a good NHL'er...but there's a reason everyone thought RNH was the consensus #1 overall.

I'm guessing you're hoping for the same from whoever you get in this draft, and I've seen a few comments that suggest you'll all think he's a better player than anyone the Oilers draft...Jones and MacKinnon are the only ones who I think have a chance of being in the same class as any of the Oilers #1 overall picks.

Wow, fiction can be fun. I hate to break it to you, I don't think RNH, Yakopov or Hall would crack the top 5 in this draft.

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#57 Shredder
April 09 2013, 03:20PM
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SmellOfVictory wrote:

RNH certainly has a higher offensive ceiling than Backlund, and it's very possible (even likely) that he ends up being a better overall player in the near future. That said, the dude was talking present time, and at present time Backlund is better than RNH.

Nuge plays bigger than he is, (ex: knocking Morrow out of the lineup last year), he's awesome defensively and on the backcheck, he's a plus player, springs Hall and Eberle on offense, and has more points now than Backlund. Backlund doesn't even compare now, or in the future.

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#58 clyde
April 09 2013, 03:20PM
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season not played wrote:

You forgot to point out that Backlund is better than RNH, Baertschi is better than Eberle and whoever the Flames draft this spring will be better than Taylor Hall.

No, RNH playing every pp and 20 minutes a night with the top offensive players and wowing the world with his 3 goals and whopping physical play is the next Gretzky of course. I do like Eberle and Hall has some real hot spells but his style of play COULD be a problem if he doesn't get that head up.

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#59 piscera.infada
April 09 2013, 03:20PM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

'Scuze me... Troll, how is year 4 working out for you guys? Making the PO? OOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhh, so close.

Now you get to pick in the 10-14 range. Your GM actually has to GM now and not take the #1 ranked prospect. Good luck with that.

I have no idea why this was addressed to me.. I'll take it though

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#60 season not played
April 09 2013, 03:29PM
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@T&A4Flames

Interesting. And I mean that.

What are you basing your opinion on?

Also, I don't believe piscera.infada should have been the target of your troll attack. That would be either Mac962 or myself.

Thanks

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#61 Shredder
April 09 2013, 03:29PM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

Wow, fiction can be fun. I hate to break it to you, I don't think RNH, Yakopov or Hall would crack the top 5 in this draft.

Ok, I'll stop reading your comments and trolling your site, because I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince a biased fan base...

Just a couple comments though...Hall won MVP of the Mem. Cup 2 years in a row on the most stacked team in the CHL for a long long time...who else can boast that? I can go on about Nuge and Yakupov, but I'm not going to bother.

"Arguing with a fool proves there are two..."

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#62 T&A4Flames
April 09 2013, 03:35PM
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piscera.infada wrote:

I have no idea why this was addressed to me.. I'll take it though

Oops, my apologies. It was meant for Mac962.

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#63 Will
April 09 2013, 03:40PM
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Kind of a boring day over at ON, so I figured I'd throw my two cents in over here.

Good luck with the retool. It will be interesting to see what Feaster does with all that cap room. But by next year your team loses your top forward, defenceman, and goal tender. Even with the cap room, to think you replace all three of those pieces, or better yet upgrade on those to actually make the playoffs seems a bit short sighted.

Dubnyk is pretty good this year at 6th in the league amongst tenders with a good chunk of games, but he's not the allstar Kipper once was.

Hall is a phenomenal young talent and is going to be a great superstar in this league. But even with my rose coloured glasses I'm not convinced he'll be a multiple 50 goal scorer, or have an 11 year streak of 30 + goals.

J Schultz leads our team in ice time and is like 6 or 7 points off the rookie scoring lead... as a defenseman. Again, he's going to be something else. But will he ever be the hard to play against calming back end presence? we'll say maybe.

I say this not to bad mouth the Oilers future but to demonstrate just what the Flames lost and how even with those pieces the flames have been at best a bubble team in a traditionally weak division. With realignment and both the Oilers and Minny getting much better, I'd be terrified as a flames fan for the next few years. Hell, even Colorado could just be a Jones away from being a serious team.

In short I truly wish the team the best with the rebuild and I hope it doesn't take as long as the Oilers. However, as someone who just went through it with a team, I would try and temper any expectations.

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#64 T&A4Flames
April 09 2013, 03:41PM
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season not played wrote:

Interesting. And I mean that.

What are you basing your opinion on?

Also, I don't believe piscera.infada should have been the target of your troll attack. That would be either Mac962 or myself.

Thanks

I assume you are replying to my "top 5" comment. I base that off the many reports I've read that guys listed in the 10-15 range would have had a shot at top 3 in any other draft. I may be wrong my assesment but it certainly wouldn't be the locks they were in their respective draft years.

and yes the "troll attack" was for Mac962. Your comments are fine; just good ol' debating.

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#65 Chris Fairfield
April 09 2013, 03:44PM
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Mac962 wrote:

Lol - ok. Backlund wont hold RNH's Jock in a year or 2. You suck Flames - admit it... go for the quick fix, no really , do it...

Come on Jay Cheeseburger, trade that pick...lol

enjoy it Calgary. Looks good on you.

Die Hard..

LOL

Hey Mac962, Shaddup!

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#66 dotfras
April 09 2013, 03:46PM
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Nuge has more points than Backlund, can anyone compare their advanced stats?

I love Backlund, and he is turning into a great player, but how is he better than RNH?

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#67 Will
April 09 2013, 04:01PM
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On another note, any flames fan that doesn't think we have five future superstars is just eating sour grapes. Hall is ninth this year, Nuge would have won the calder if he didn't get injured. Eberle was drafted 22nd overall and was selected for the all-star team in his sohpmore year. Yak had a better record than Stamkos and already shows flashes of the gifted offensive player he's going to be. Finally J Schultz is like 7 points off the rookie scoring lead, he leads our team in ice time, and he's a defenseman.

To think the flames after trading Iginla have something in their system or on their team that can compare to these kids is insane. Your top scorer now is Tanguy and Camellari, both with 27 points respectively and are at minus 13 and 15, and are seasoned vets.

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#68 Captain Ron
April 09 2013, 04:04PM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

I believe Steinberg said it on The Fan 960, "there is no right or wrong way to be a good fan." Maybe Kent said it, not sure. In the end we all just want what we see is best for our team.

At this moment in time, losses are the biggest benefit. Although losses with strong work ethic and continued efforts to win is the absolute best for our kids.

I agree. Well put.

Watching the game last night I certainly experienced some contradicting thoughts as the game was being played. Won't be the last time that happens this year either.

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#69 piscera.infada
April 09 2013, 04:06PM
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Will wrote:

On another note, any flames fan that doesn't think we have five future superstars is just eating sour grapes. Hall is ninth this year, Nuge would have won the calder if he didn't get injured. Eberle was drafted 22nd overall and was selected for the all-star team in his sohpmore year. Yak had a better record than Stamkos and already shows flashes of the gifted offensive player he's going to be. Finally J Schultz is like 7 points off the rookie scoring lead, he leads our team in ice time, and he's a defenseman.

To think the flames after trading Iginla have something in their system or on their team that can compare to these kids is insane. Your top scorer now is Tanguy and Camellari, both with 27 points respectively and are at minus 13 and 15, and are seasoned vets.

Look, I don't think anyone is arguing against you having some very good players up there.

In fact, Eberle is one of my favorite players in the league to watch.

I just wouldn't go planning any parades or statues or hall of fame inductee speeches quite yet.

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#70 Baalzamon
April 09 2013, 04:12PM
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dotfras wrote:

Nuge has more points than Backlund, can anyone compare their advanced stats?

I love Backlund, and he is turning into a great player, but how is he better than RNH?

Backlund's underlyings are significantly better pretty much across the board (especially when you consider he spent a LOT of time with Blake Comeau).

But he's also 4 years older than Ryan Nugent-Hopkins.

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#71 seve927
April 09 2013, 04:14PM
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Will wrote:

On another note, any flames fan that doesn't think we have five future superstars is just eating sour grapes. Hall is ninth this year, Nuge would have won the calder if he didn't get injured. Eberle was drafted 22nd overall and was selected for the all-star team in his sohpmore year. Yak had a better record than Stamkos and already shows flashes of the gifted offensive player he's going to be. Finally J Schultz is like 7 points off the rookie scoring lead, he leads our team in ice time, and he's a defenseman.

To think the flames after trading Iginla have something in their system or on their team that can compare to these kids is insane. Your top scorer now is Tanguy and Camellari, both with 27 points respectively and are at minus 13 and 15, and are seasoned vets.

I didn't know 'Yak' or Stamkos made a record. I'm sure it was very good, but he still sucks at playing hockey. Good to know he has a music career to fall back on.

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#72 Captain Ron
April 09 2013, 04:26PM
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Will wrote:

Kind of a boring day over at ON, so I figured I'd throw my two cents in over here.

Good luck with the retool. It will be interesting to see what Feaster does with all that cap room. But by next year your team loses your top forward, defenceman, and goal tender. Even with the cap room, to think you replace all three of those pieces, or better yet upgrade on those to actually make the playoffs seems a bit short sighted.

Dubnyk is pretty good this year at 6th in the league amongst tenders with a good chunk of games, but he's not the allstar Kipper once was.

Hall is a phenomenal young talent and is going to be a great superstar in this league. But even with my rose coloured glasses I'm not convinced he'll be a multiple 50 goal scorer, or have an 11 year streak of 30 + goals.

J Schultz leads our team in ice time and is like 6 or 7 points off the rookie scoring lead... as a defenseman. Again, he's going to be something else. But will he ever be the hard to play against calming back end presence? we'll say maybe.

I say this not to bad mouth the Oilers future but to demonstrate just what the Flames lost and how even with those pieces the flames have been at best a bubble team in a traditionally weak division. With realignment and both the Oilers and Minny getting much better, I'd be terrified as a flames fan for the next few years. Hell, even Colorado could just be a Jones away from being a serious team.

In short I truly wish the team the best with the rebuild and I hope it doesn't take as long as the Oilers. However, as someone who just went through it with a team, I would try and temper any expectations.

The Oilers future looks bright for sure.

A good deal of the trouble the Flames are having this year is tied to poor goaltending. We won't truly know where we are until that is corrected. What I am trying to say is that while we are bad, we are not reaaaaaaallllyyy bad.

There are enough embers still glowing in the fire that the Flames should get to full burn sooner than some other teams of the past that fell on hard times.

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#73 Eddie Shore
April 09 2013, 04:28PM
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SmellOfVictory wrote:

RNH certainly has a higher offensive ceiling than Backlund, and it's very possible (even likely) that he ends up being a better overall player in the near future. That said, the dude was talking present time, and at present time Backlund is better than RNH.

Based on what exactly?

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#74 SmellOfVictory
April 09 2013, 04:38PM
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Shredder wrote:

Thank you. I knew there were some sensible Flames fans out there. I know how biased this post will sound coming from an Oilers fan but...

Backlund (24 years old) has 6 goals, 5 assists and is minus 6. Nuge (19 years old) has 3 goals, 19 assists and is plus 2. Nuge had 5 less points in his first year than Backlund did in his whole career.

I don't want to knock Backlund, because he's a good NHL'er...but there's a reason everyone thought RNH was the consensus #1 overall.

I'm guessing you're hoping for the same from whoever you get in this draft, and I've seen a few comments that suggest you'll all think he's a better player than anyone the Oilers draft...Jones and MacKinnon are the only ones who I think have a chance of being in the same class as any of the Oilers #1 overall picks.

I think Bergeron is a better player than the Sedins, too. Points are nice, but it depends what's coming back as well; RNH barely holds his own in terms of outshooting, while Backlund does quite well at it. That's the primary mark of a good player, in my opinion. Being able to put up gaudy point totals is secondary to outshooting your opponents (the unfortunate +/- being the result of the Flames having the worst goaltending in the NHL this season).

I recognize that's an unpopular opinion to have, and that the average person is going to disagree with me, but that's where I stand. And this doesn't mean better passer, better scorer, better whatever, but just an overall more effective presence on the ice.

Again, I'm sure you give RNH another year and he'll be better, but he currently is not by my standards. And that's not a knock on him; he's doing incredibly well for a teenager.

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#75 Kurt
April 09 2013, 04:38PM
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SmellOfVictory wrote:

RNH certainly has a higher offensive ceiling than Backlund, and it's very possible (even likely) that he ends up being a better overall player in the near future. That said, the dude was talking present time, and at present time Backlund is better than RNH.

Hahahaaaaa... Oh man, talk about home bias blinders. I overvalue our guys like all fans. But man, you are on crack. I've got Coiler buddies so I've had to watch a bunch of games this year. I can confidently say, as a diehard flames fan, that you are wrong. Not opinion, but just plain wrong. There is no world where Backlund even is in the same discussion as RNH. Not this year, last year or any year. Thy guy is dazzling withthe puck and possesses such unique poise and vision that its unbelievable. We have no player like him. not Bcklund, not anyone... Until Taylor Halls recent explosion I always told my Coiler buddies RNH is the one player they have that I am the most jealous about... Sorry but Backlund isn't even in his galaxy. I wish he was....

It's exciting to think we should be getting a true elite prospect his year. I think when we do we will realize how guys like Backlund and Sven really are 2nd tier prospects. But when we have nothing better we tend to project higher expectations on guy like that which is not only setting ourselves up for disappointment but also putting unfair pressure on our kids.

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#76 SmellOfVictory
April 09 2013, 04:44PM
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@Kurt

You like flashy, offensively gifted players. I understand that.

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#77 T&A4Flames
April 09 2013, 04:47PM
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@Eddie Shore

On any and all #'s this year. Backlund plays a lot of tough minutes. Does RNH play any?

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#78 Eddie Shore
April 09 2013, 04:53PM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

On any and all #'s this year. Backlund plays a lot of tough minutes. Does RNH play any?

Backlund is having a career year, according to his boxcars and is on pace for 39 points in an 82 game season. I think it's fair to say RNH has had a tough year and is still on pace for 50 points over 82 games. I'm not sure if those are the numbers your speaking of.

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#79 T&A4Flames
April 09 2013, 04:55PM
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Kurt wrote:

Hahahaaaaa... Oh man, talk about home bias blinders. I overvalue our guys like all fans. But man, you are on crack. I've got Coiler buddies so I've had to watch a bunch of games this year. I can confidently say, as a diehard flames fan, that you are wrong. Not opinion, but just plain wrong. There is no world where Backlund even is in the same discussion as RNH. Not this year, last year or any year. Thy guy is dazzling withthe puck and possesses such unique poise and vision that its unbelievable. We have no player like him. not Bcklund, not anyone... Until Taylor Halls recent explosion I always told my Coiler buddies RNH is the one player they have that I am the most jealous about... Sorry but Backlund isn't even in his galaxy. I wish he was....

It's exciting to think we should be getting a true elite prospect his year. I think when we do we will realize how guys like Backlund and Sven really are 2nd tier prospects. But when we have nothing better we tend to project higher expectations on guy like that which is not only setting ourselves up for disappointment but also putting unfair pressure on our kids.

Actually, dude, your "opinion", and that is ALL it is, is not supported by #'s Don't tell anyone that their opinion is wrong unless you have facts to back it up. You like Nuge, great. I would rather have RNH over Backs as well but for his potential. If we are looking at this year alone, for a player that will help win this year, I take Backlund.

Edit: This is just MY opinion.

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#80 piscera.infada
April 09 2013, 04:58PM
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There was some great, intelligent hockey discussion going on not too long ago.

Enter a few rogue Oiler's fans.

Now we're comparing un-comparable players under (largely) un-comparable circumstances.

Awesome...

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#81 T&A4Flames
April 09 2013, 04:59PM
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Eddie Shore wrote:

Backlund is having a career year, according to his boxcars and is on pace for 39 points in an 82 game season. I think it's fair to say RNH has had a tough year and is still on pace for 50 points over 82 games. I'm not sure if those are the numbers your speaking of.

Fair enough, I spoke too soon. I'm pretty sure Backs possesion rates would be better especially with the fact that he takes on much tougher comp.

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#82 Will
April 09 2013, 05:04PM
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piscera.infada wrote:

Look, I don't think anyone is arguing against you having some very good players up there.

In fact, Eberle is one of my favorite players in the league to watch.

I just wouldn't go planning any parades or statues or hall of fame inductee speeches quite yet.

Well no actually several people are arguing that our prospects don't stack up against some of the Flames prospects, like this Backlund v RNH thread. It's just nonsense. Then there was the comparing of J schultz. And I distinctly remember the "parade" held for Bartschi this year (sorry for spelling).

Furthermore, I am not planning parades. I think Oiler fans in general have been too happy for too long with not making the playoffs. My comment was pointed at those thinking the pieces are there for the Flames. Then Comparing those pieces to the Oilers to show how the flames rebuild will take less time because their prospects are somehow better then what the Oilers have.

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#83 Will
April 09 2013, 05:06PM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

Fair enough, I spoke too soon. I'm pretty sure Backs possesion rates would be better especially with the fact that he takes on much tougher comp.

Where are you getting this idea that Nuge doesn't play against tough competition? Our top line has lined up against the opposition top line night after night. not to mention we've currently played more road games than home meaning most nights this year have allowed other teams to get the last change and line match against Nuge with whomever they see fit.

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#84 T&A4Flames
April 09 2013, 05:10PM
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Will wrote:

Well no actually several people are arguing that our prospects don't stack up against some of the Flames prospects, like this Backlund v RNH thread. It's just nonsense. Then there was the comparing of J schultz. And I distinctly remember the "parade" held for Bartschi this year (sorry for spelling).

Furthermore, I am not planning parades. I think Oiler fans in general have been too happy for too long with not making the playoffs. My comment was pointed at those thinking the pieces are there for the Flames. Then Comparing those pieces to the Oilers to show how the flames rebuild will take less time because their prospects are somehow better then what the Oilers have.

I'll reiterate what has already been said. I don't think ANY Flames fan here is saying that what we have is better long term. Obviously you guys have better players going forward; you should after 3 1st overalls in a row. It's just the battle that's raged for 4 years now; 2 teams going in different directions. For this season only, our young guys are arguably- I repeat arguably, as good or better.

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#85 Will
April 09 2013, 05:10PM
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Captain Ron wrote:

The Oilers future looks bright for sure.

A good deal of the trouble the Flames are having this year is tied to poor goaltending. We won't truly know where we are until that is corrected. What I am trying to say is that while we are bad, we are not reaaaaaaallllyyy bad.

There are enough embers still glowing in the fire that the Flames should get to full burn sooner than some other teams of the past that fell on hard times.

Fair point. But last year Kipper had a career year numbers wise, and the Flames didn't even make the playoffs.

As a fan who has had to watch Habby for the last three years, I am no stranger to what even mediocre goal tending can do for a team. But is that guy there right now?

I mean Dubnyk is no peach but the kid has played a majority of the games as our number one, and has some good numbers to show for it.

Is there someone in the system that can handle the number one job better than Kipper?

I see the Flames as a team of role players, without the super stars. Maybe that's just biased, but looking at point totals from the team I think that's accurate. It's not like Tampa bay that has one or two legitimate stars with a crappy team around them.

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#86 Will
April 09 2013, 05:12PM
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seve927 wrote:

I didn't know 'Yak' or Stamkos made a record. I'm sure it was very good, but he still sucks at playing hockey. Good to know he has a music career to fall back on.

Ha! nice one. I really want to hear that record now. Like in a morbid sort of way cause that would truly be the worst sounding thing ever created.

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#87 Kurt
April 09 2013, 05:13PM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

Fair enough, I spoke too soon. I'm pretty sure Backs possesion rates would be better especially with the fact that he takes on much tougher comp.

First off, I am anything but a Coiler fan.

2nd, the numbers do back up my 'opinion' which in this case is fact. Comparing RNH to Backlund is a fools errand. This year, every year.

RNH plays #1 competition since Hprcoff was hurt all year. His shooting % is 5% or so which logically is an aberration. His defensive play is arguably his greatest asset outside of his PP quarterbacking.

It's a laugh to compare these players.

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#88 season not played
April 09 2013, 05:18PM
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piscera.infada wrote:

There was some great, intelligent hockey discussion going on not too long ago.

Enter a few rogue Oiler's fans.

Now we're comparing un-comparable players under (largely) un-comparable circumstances.

Awesome...

It was actually Smell of Victory that started the ridiculous RNH v. Backlund thread.

I just threw out a sarcastic comment to the fellow who was saying he would take Brodie over JSchultz.

and then it was on.....

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#89 T&A4Flames
April 09 2013, 05:19PM
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Will wrote:

Where are you getting this idea that Nuge doesn't play against tough competition? Our top line has lined up against the opposition top line night after night. not to mention we've currently played more road games than home meaning most nights this year have allowed other teams to get the last change and line match against Nuge with whomever they see fit.

Just an assumption. If you tell me he starts most of his shifts in the defensive zone, I'll believe you.

Seriously, though, this is a Flames thread and I would like to get back to the Flames future, I really don't care too much about what the Oilers are doing right now. Good luck with your continued rebuild. See you guys in 4 years.

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#90 season not played
April 09 2013, 05:23PM
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Kurt wrote:

First off, I am anything but a Coiler fan.

2nd, the numbers do back up my 'opinion' which in this case is fact. Comparing RNH to Backlund is a fools errand. This year, every year.

RNH plays #1 competition since Hprcoff was hurt all year. His shooting % is 5% or so which logically is an aberration. His defensive play is arguably his greatest asset outside of his PP quarterbacking.

It's a laugh to compare these players.

Well done Kurt.

It's always more effective from one Flames fan to another.

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#91 DieHard
April 09 2013, 05:24PM
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Kurt wrote:

Hahahaaaaa... Oh man, talk about home bias blinders. I overvalue our guys like all fans. But man, you are on crack. I've got Coiler buddies so I've had to watch a bunch of games this year. I can confidently say, as a diehard flames fan, that you are wrong. Not opinion, but just plain wrong. There is no world where Backlund even is in the same discussion as RNH. Not this year, last year or any year. Thy guy is dazzling withthe puck and possesses such unique poise and vision that its unbelievable. We have no player like him. not Bcklund, not anyone... Until Taylor Halls recent explosion I always told my Coiler buddies RNH is the one player they have that I am the most jealous about... Sorry but Backlund isn't even in his galaxy. I wish he was....

It's exciting to think we should be getting a true elite prospect his year. I think when we do we will realize how guys like Backlund and Sven really are 2nd tier prospects. But when we have nothing better we tend to project higher expectations on guy like that which is not only setting ourselves up for disappointment but also putting unfair pressure on our kids.

Finally some insight. Which is WHY you guys need to LOSE. sorry but true.

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#92 T&A4Flames
April 09 2013, 05:25PM
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@Kurt

If you say so.

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#93 Will
April 09 2013, 05:25PM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

I'll reiterate what has already been said. I don't think ANY Flames fan here is saying that what we have is better long term. Obviously you guys have better players going forward; you should after 3 1st overalls in a row. It's just the battle that's raged for 4 years now; 2 teams going in different directions. For this season only, our young guys are arguably- I repeat arguably, as good or better.

Okay, your wording is fair enough to make your point.

But speaking of points, Hall: 41 points, ninth in the league Gagner: 35, more than Daniel Sedin (though his plus minus is terrible) Eberle: 28 Nuge: 22 Yak: 20 Schultz: 20, with the highest average ice time on the team, 24th in points for a defenseman, as a rookie.

Tangay: 27 Camellari: 25 Giardano: 11 Backlund: 11 Bertchi: 1

I understand this doesn't tell the entire story as Backlund has played like 12 less games than the Nuge. But do you really think he could double his point totals in 12 games? He's also minus 6 and the Nuge is plus 2. I hate to be the guy cherry picking stats, but I think these numbers are pretty convincing.

Having said that, the Flames goalie pool does look very deep.

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#94 DieHard
April 09 2013, 05:26PM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

On any and all #'s this year. Backlund plays a lot of tough minutes. Does RNH play any?

Nothing but.

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#95 lionlager
April 09 2013, 05:30PM
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So... less about the Oilers then...

Let's hope Giguere calling out his team last night is actually effective and the Avs go on a tear. Somehow. I don't think I'd mind that at all at this point in the year...

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#96 DieHard
April 09 2013, 05:34PM
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While you are all here. Quickly now; if you had the fist overall would you take a Centre, Winger or Defenseman.

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#97 Will
April 09 2013, 05:39PM
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Sorry about the Oilers talk,

Like I said, kind of boring over there today. I did initially start talking about the Flames and relating to the above article.

If I'm the Flames, how can you not take Jones. Sure you still don't have that forward presence left by Iginla, but teams with solid tending, and a deep D core are really tough teams under the right coach. Plus there always seems to be that high profile free agent winger that is looking for an overpayment the Flames could afford with all their cap room.

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#98 SmellOfVictory
April 09 2013, 05:53PM
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season not played wrote:

It was actually Smell of Victory that started the ridiculous RNH v. Backlund thread.

I just threw out a sarcastic comment to the fellow who was saying he would take Brodie over JSchultz.

and then it was on.....

It was, because you were going for an basically a reducto ad absurdum that wasn't really absurd. People who care more about the team actually winning rather than a dude who looks fancy would at least understand that Backlund and RNH are comparable in their usefulness to their teams at this point (albeit RNH is 4 years younger).

Similarly, Brodie and Schultz are comparable. Baertschi and Eberle are not comparable at the moment, but it's not unreasonable to think that Baertschi may become Eberle-like.

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#99 piscera.infada
April 09 2013, 05:55PM
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DieHard wrote:

While you are all here. Quickly now; if you had the fist overall would you take a Centre, Winger or Defenseman.

If you had read the earlier posts, instead of this Oilers-Flames prospect mumbo-jumbo, then you would know the answer is largely a mixed bag.

I would prefer a centre, as in my opinion it's easier to create a defensive core of players that aren't "elite" but are very good (see, The Rangers).

It truly is difficult - and as a Flames fan I know this far too well - to have consistent offensive production (and thus, wins) without at least a few "elite" forwards, typically starting up the middle.

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#100 DieHard
April 09 2013, 06:20PM
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piscera.infada wrote:

If you had read the earlier posts, instead of this Oilers-Flames prospect mumbo-jumbo, then you would know the answer is largely a mixed bag.

I would prefer a centre, as in my opinion it's easier to create a defensive core of players that aren't "elite" but are very good (see, The Rangers).

It truly is difficult - and as a Flames fan I know this far too well - to have consistent offensive production (and thus, wins) without at least a few "elite" forwards, typically starting up the middle.

Thanks. Hadn't seen it and was wondering. I agree with you on Centre.

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