FN Weekend Open Thread - What Should the Flames Do To Move Into the Top-4?

Kent Wilson
May 11 2013 10:14AM

 


 

There's no question that at 6th overall a pretty good player is going to available when the Flames approach the podium in June. We can't know the team's draft board, but at 6th at least one of Elias Lindholm, Sean Monahan, Valery Nichushkin, Darnell Nurse or Hunter Shinkaruk will be around. 

Those are fine options. Nuchushkin and Lindholm are in the conversation with guys like Drouin and Barkov on some draft boards, for instance.

That said, there's a clear upper tier in this draft class where one is more or less guaranteed a future high-end to elite player: the top four - the aforementioned Jonathan Drouin, Aleksandr Barkov as well as Seth Jones and Nathan MacKinnon.

As we discussed yesterday, the Flames are flush with assets heading into the draft, ranging from three first round picks to gobs of cap space. In addition, given the team is just now embarking on a rebuild, pretty much any roster player over 24 years old may be up for grabs as well (and probably many of them under that threshold as well).

Which is a long way of saying the Flames have the will and perhaps the wherewithal to move up, assuming price is no object. The teams picking ahead of them are Colorado (1), Florida (2), Tampa Bay (3), Nashville (4) and Carolina (5). The Flames have 6th overall, 21st overall (Blues eliminated last night ) and PIT's first rounder (25th or higher). They also have some worthwhile roster players (Giordano, Wideman, Hudler, Glencross, Bouwmeester, Kiprusoff, Tanguay) and, if you want to go nuclear, some quality youngsters (Brodie, Backlund, Gaudreau, Gillies). Finally, Calgary can also accept an ugly salary dump if required (Vinny Lecavalier?).

I personally wouldn't advocate moving any of the Flames high-end guys under 24 to move up a couple places, but they are nevertheless an option. You can bet if the Flames make inquiries those are the names other teams will bring up.

So what would you do to move up to 4th or better?

Sample packages:

Giordano + 6th + 21st?

Brodie + 6th?

Backlund + 6th + other asset?

Baertschi + 6th?

Gaudreau + 6th + other asset?

6th + 21st + accept Leacavalier's contract?

21st+25th-30th+2014 first rounder+Giordano/Glencross/Backlund?

Submit your best offer in the comments.

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Former Nations Overlord. Current Fn contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#101 RexLibris
May 12 2013, 10:01PM
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Derzie wrote:

The less rope we give Feaster and Co. the less likely they are to hang themselves. Keep the 3 picks and do your homework. No fancy footwork. We don't need boat anchor contracts and players. The negative impact on team morale is not worth it. Keep your drafting feet moving, crash the podium and keep it simple. Simmer-101.

Slow clap for the Draft Simmerism. Thank heavens he isn't doing colour commentary on the Sportsnet draft panel.

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#102 RexLibris
May 12 2013, 10:05PM
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@clYDE

If that offer is true, and Feaster hung himself on wanting a 1st round pick ahead of Jarnkrok or Jurco and Oulette, then I am both disgusted that he still has a job and thankful that, as an Oilers fan, he was so stubborn as to not take that deal.

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#103 clYDE
May 12 2013, 10:28PM
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@RexLibris

I agree. I asked flat out and was told the offer. My contact could not believe he was not working with JBO as he was familiar with what the Blues gave up too. Feaster must feel a 5'9 def and a 27 year old goalie are better. As a Flames fan after only the Pens, I do hope he is right but I just don't think so.

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#104 FireOnIce
May 12 2013, 11:22PM
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I had an off-topic thought watching the DET/ANA game tonight.

Didn't see much of Bobby Ryan, wondered if he was hurt or something. Looked up his stats for the series and found he had 7GP and went 2-2-4, +1, with 14 shots. Nothing spectacular. His season stats weren't especially terrible, with 46GP and going 11-19-30, +3, with 101 shots.

There was previous talk of Ryan being traded. What do people think it would take to pry him out of Anaheim?

His cap hit is $5.1M. According to CapGeek, ANA will have ~$4.7M in cap space with numerous contracts needing to be signed/re-signed. Perhaps something like the STL 1st + Stajan for Bobby Ryan + ANA's 2nd rounder? Anaheim gets a centre with only a year left on his deal (and about $1.6M in cap space), as well as another first. Calgary gets a second rounder (we don't have one) and a good winger. Would probably require another asset going from CGY -> ANA to make it work.

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#105 Baalzamon
May 12 2013, 11:52PM
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@FireOnIce

"STL 1st + Stajan for Bobby Ryan + ANA's 2nd rounder... about $2.6M in cap space"

5.1 - 3.5 = 1.6

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#106 FireOnIce
May 13 2013, 01:36AM
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Baalzamon wrote:

"STL 1st + Stajan for Bobby Ryan + ANA's 2nd rounder... about $2.6M in cap space"

5.1 - 3.5 = 1.6

My apologies, I was looking at his actual salary instead of the cap hit. Fixed.

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#107 BJ
May 13 2013, 06:29AM
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@clYDE

@ Clyde

That is interesting. I can't imagine why JBO would want to nix a deal to a franchise that hasn't missed the playoffs in 20+ years. Only thing I can think is that Weisbrod really sees something in either Cundari or Berra.

If Boston's first wasn't conditional then that means that Iginla nixxed that deal just to play with Crosby. Boston has a great team so it makes no sense to me. - Feaster claims he took the best deal. Chiarelli claims what he claims - TSN reported something different that day.

Someone should write a tell-all book about the post lockout Flames era...Iggy, Phaneuf, Kipper etc. it would explain some things.

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#108 JTB
May 13 2013, 09:04AM
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Question - with Detroit winning & possible that Rangers beat Cap's & or Leafs beat the Bruins, could the St Louis pick turn into a 17th or 18th overall?

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#109 T&A4Flames
May 13 2013, 09:13AM
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JTB wrote:

Question - with Detroit winning & possible that Rangers beat Cap's & or Leafs beat the Bruins, could the St Louis pick turn into a 17th or 18th overall?

I think the best they can do is 21st as they had the 2nd best reg. season record of any non-divisional winning team. BOS was the highest non div. winning team.

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#110 Rockmorton65
May 13 2013, 09:26AM
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I don't understand all this "if we don't get into the top 4, we're SCREWED!" talk. I think that even if we don't make a move, we have the opportunity to get three great players. Looking at the last few years, there were very good players chosen where we will be picking. Couturier 8th, Hamilton 9th, Forsberg 11th, Karlson 15th, Del Zotto 20th, Johannsen 24th, Carlson 27th, Saad 43rd If this draft is as deep as people think, its exciting to think that we could come out of this draft with a Couturier, Del Zotto, and a Saad.

I think we're going to get better than that. There will be moves at the draft (*cough*Tanguay*cough*)

Stay positive, my friends.

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#111 Kevin R
May 13 2013, 10:02AM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

I think the best they can do is 21st as they had the 2nd best reg. season record of any non-divisional winning team. BOS was the highest non div. winning team.

Bro St Louis has the 2nd best record of non division winning teams. Division winning teams got home ice advantage in the playoffs, but that drops their seeding in the draft order. Is that incorrect? If what you are trying to say is true about best record, then St Louis pick best case scenario is 23, the 5 teams with better records & the 2 potential Stanley Cup finalists if they had less points than the Blues who would automatically get 30th & 29th. Many people are throwing out scenarios, and none make any sense. Like I've heard how Pitts best case was 25th. How could that be if the SC finalists are 29th & 30th & then its based on best record? Where are you getting best case of 21st from for St louis?

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#112 piscera.infada
May 13 2013, 10:18AM
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@Kevin R

Ok.

SC Winner gets 30, SCF loser get 29. Conference finals losers get 28 & 27 (depending on who finished higher/lower in the regular season).

26-15 are seeded by regular season standings REGARDLESS of how they finish in the first two rounds of the playoffs.

(For example, If Chicago had lost in the first round, they would pick 26th)

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#113 T&A4Flames
May 13 2013, 10:24AM
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Kevin R wrote:

Bro St Louis has the 2nd best record of non division winning teams. Division winning teams got home ice advantage in the playoffs, but that drops their seeding in the draft order. Is that incorrect? If what you are trying to say is true about best record, then St Louis pick best case scenario is 23, the 5 teams with better records & the 2 potential Stanley Cup finalists if they had less points than the Blues who would automatically get 30th & 29th. Many people are throwing out scenarios, and none make any sense. Like I've heard how Pitts best case was 25th. How could that be if the SC finalists are 29th & 30th & then its based on best record? Where are you getting best case of 21st from for St louis?

Here is the info I have found:

Draft Order

•The 14 teams that missed the playoffs during the previous NHL season are awarded the first 14 picks. They draft in order of fewest points to most points, subject to the results of the draft lottery. •The current Stanley Cup champion picks last (30th). •The Stanley Cup runner-up picks 29th. •The other two Conference Finalists pick 28th and 27th. •Regular-season division winners hold the other lowest positions. •Remaining teams draft in order of fewest points to most points from the previous regular season.

So lets say by the end of the 2nd rnd only CHI & PIT are left standing as div champs. They get #30 and #29. #28 & #27 go to the other 2 conf. finalists. After that the divisional winners get the next lowest picks according to reg season pnts. So that is 4 div winner getting picks #26-#23. BOS had the highest point totals of non div winners so they would get #22 (again, assuming they get elimated tonight or next series). St Louis had the next highest point totals and would get #21.

The reason the highest pick that PIT could have been was #25 is because if they get eliminated right away, 4 non div winnning teams would have had to make the conf. finals. CHI would get #26 because they had higher reg season point totals.

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#114 Kevin R
May 13 2013, 10:41AM
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@Piscera& T&A

Ok thanks. So really, these division winners being eliminated really don't impact that St Louis pick. All we can hope for is that Pitt/Boston/Chicago or any team with more regular season points than St Louis don't get by the next round, then that St Lou pick is 21 but right now its shaping up to probably look like 23rd.

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#115 T&A4Flames
May 13 2013, 10:54AM
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@Kevin R

Actually, I think we can still get #19 if CHI, PIT, WSH & BOS get eliminated bu the end of rnd 2. Man, this can get confusing sometimes.

VAN, MTL, and ANA are all div winners that are now gone. I think the worst we can do at the moment is #23.

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#116 KH44
May 13 2013, 11:30AM
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Baalzamon wrote:

... what exactly is scary about Lindholm?

Lindholm is projected, for example, by the Hockey News as a character two-way forward, never scoring 80 points but instead being a solid 2nd/3rd line center. He didn't make the WJC team, and overall seems like less than an optimal pick for the Flames. That is not what I want from the 6th overall pick in what is considered a very good draft, especially after drafting jankoskwi last year. We have a center that needs lots of seasoning and may not pan out already. Monahan has a higher ceiling, projects as a No. 1 center. Nurse has big, strong, and nasty used together as descriptors. Both project as better players.

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#117 the-wolf
May 13 2013, 11:32AM
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clYDE wrote:

Hi BJ, Good points. Very good. The Boston GM says there was no condition on the 1st round pick. So, is Feaster fabricating here or not? The original offer for JBO was this: Jurco, Oulette, 2nd. My buddies involved in Detroit said Feaster did not come back at them. They offered Jarncrok, Oulette and a 1st for Kulikov after JBO was gone and he said since JBO was their 1st choice, they would have gone there with the Flames too.

Interesting, I postulated that exact trade scenario for JBo (Jarnkrok, Oulette, 1st). If true, Feaster is dumber than I thought.

Agree with Derzie. Keep our picks, don't get fancy.

We should get a great pick at #6 reagrdless, no point in giving up more assets.

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#118 Baalzamon
May 13 2013, 12:57PM
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@KH44

"Lindholm is projected, for example, by the Hockey News as a character two-way forward, never scoring 80 points but instead being a solid 2nd/3rd line center"

Corey Pronman has him as a potential allstar. Scouts who see him as a 2nd liner tops (or, more specifically, inferior to Monahan) are in the minority.

"He didn't make the WJC team"

Yes he did.

"Monahan has a higher ceiling"

According to practically no one (except fans, like yourself).

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#119 JJ
May 13 2013, 01:23PM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

Actually, I think we can still get #19 if CHI, PIT, WSH & BOS get eliminated bu the end of rnd 2. Man, this can get confusing sometimes.

VAN, MTL, and ANA are all div winners that are now gone. I think the worst we can do at the moment is #23.

Close, but Detroit winning last night means that the worst it can be is actually 22 since it guarantees one of SJ or LA to make the conference finals and bump the St. Louis pick up one

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#120 Mabell
May 13 2013, 04:33PM
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Not sure exactly what Feaster is looking for - but I can't believe that he would not take the best available player, Flames are not realistically going to be a playoff team for a couple of years and need to compile as many blue chip assets as possible.

If Nuchushkin falls and is available to the Flames - how do you not take him? He may not be available for two years - but is that really a factor? It's not like with the new divisions the Flames will be competing for a playoff spot.

And beyond that there is a reason that Lindholm is ranked above Monahan on almost every draft board...trying to out think everyone may just result in another miss - and even thought I'm no Flames fan - I don;t think they can afford to miss with this pick.

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#121 Kevin R
May 13 2013, 07:42PM
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Ok! So it looks like the worst the pick can be is now 21. Go Ottawa & Detroit :)

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#122 Baalzamon
May 13 2013, 07:54PM
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@Mabell

Ah but whether the Flames take the BPA or not isn't really the question now, is it? The question is who they consider the BPA. Last draft proved they're not afraid to go against consensus (though in this draft, and this close to the top, you have to think they're not too far away)

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