FN Weekend Open Thread - Flames Other Draft Darkhorses

Kent Wilson
May 18 2013 11:19AM

 

 

Yesterday we discussed Taylor Cammarata as a potential mid-round target of the Flames this coming draft. We'd like to profile all of the org's targets, but of course that's not possible.

Instead, share in the comments who you think the Flames will be looking at after the first round this year and we'll try to cover them here at FN. Keep in mind the franchise has started to fish for prospects in college and USHL a lot more these days, although they have still been very active in the CHL as well. Six of the Calgary's 12 picks under Jay Feaster have come from the WHL and QMJHL, while the rest is almost completely drawn from USHL and HS/college development programs (5 picks), with the notable exception of Markus Granlund (SM-Liiga).

With those habits in mind, take a look at some draft rankings and determine who you think the Flames have on their draft chart.

 

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Former Nations Overlord. Current FN contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#51 Jeff Lebowski
May 20 2013, 11:45AM
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If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin wrote:

Man, I was mulling over whether I should put in the time to do what you did. I`m glad you did it instead. You`re my new best friend. In regards to the Canadian thing, I myself am inclined to believe that when everything else is equal or when in doubt, you draft the Canadian. However, if the Euro has the higher ceiling, take him for the love of everything sane. That being said, I don`t think there is anything wrong with Eugene preferring fellow Canadians on his favorite Canadian NHL team. Secondly, those stats from 2011-12 show a very good ES ratio when it comes to Monahans`points. I think it demonstrates how terrible the 2012-13 iteration of the 67`s was at ES. I`ve said it a million times before, and I`ll say it again: Monahan has the higher NHL upside IMO. Lindholm will just be a good consolation prize.

Monahan is playing against 16-20 year olds. Lindholm is 18 and playing against professional players all older than him.

When you think of quality of opposition, think not only of the stats. These are fully developed men who train like pros.

How many young players have come up to only learn the hard lessons of being a pro? Or they go to AHL to learn them.

There are plenty if examples of juniors who can step right in so I'm not 'hating' on Monahan as the pick. I just think you have to consider EVERYTHING.

What was Monahan's avg TOI compared to Lindholm? If Lindholm got more out of less then that is compelling.

Essentially you have to see them play. Stats at these levels have much grey area.

Lindholm was called the next Forsberg by some Swedish scout. Regardless of hyperbole, this was an 'expert'. That excites me.

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#52 EugeneV
May 20 2013, 04:28PM
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please cancel acct wrote:

Canadian boys are near the top when it comes to passion.Problem is Eugene, that skill and skating are more important,which makes your comment totally yeeehhh silly.

Just saying I would prefer the Canadian over the Swede. Sue me. We have ALL played with skillful players who could skate like the wind, and looked like worl beaters, but never went to the areas you need to in order to win a Stanley Cup. For every Forsberg, there has been how many others who weren't Forsberg? Of course Canadians have failed in the NHL.

How difficult is the Swedish Elite League?

2012-13 MVP George "Bud" Holloway March 1, 1988 (age 25) Wapella, SK, CANADA Drafted; 3rd Round 2006 LA Kings

Season Team League GP G A Pts

2004–05 Seattle WHL 67 4 11 15

2005-06 Seattle WHL 72 21 13 34

2006-07 Seattle WHL 71 27 38 65

2007-08 Seattle WHL 70 43 40 83

2008–09 Manchester AHL 38 7 5 12

2009–10 Manchester AHL 75 19 28 47

2010–11 Manchester AHL 78 28 33 61

2011–12 Skellefteå SEL 55 21 28 49

2011–12 Skellefteå SEL 55 20 51 71 MVP

A fringe prospect from Canada is MVP and leading scorer of the Swedish Elite League and we are going to say that we should pin our dreams on a kid (Lindholm) that can "play against men" in this "TOP LEAGUE" because some scouts say he is the next Forsberg against a star (Monahan) in the OHL? You HAVE to be kidding me.

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#53 EugeneV
May 20 2013, 04:39PM
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@Jeff Lebowski

See my query on how good the Elitserin truly is above.

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#54 EugeneV
May 20 2013, 04:49PM
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@Jeff Lebowski

Who is the next Peter Forsberg anyway?

Gabriel Landeskog?

Filip Forsberg?

Elias Lindholm?

All can be googled as the "next Peter Forsberg" in the just the last 3 years.

Seems like a bit of HYPERBOLE, but if that is what gets you excited, then feel free. I, however am looking for the Flames next great center. (first one in 15 years)

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#55 If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin
May 20 2013, 07:33PM
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EugeneV wrote:

Just saying I would prefer the Canadian over the Swede. Sue me. We have ALL played with skillful players who could skate like the wind, and looked like worl beaters, but never went to the areas you need to in order to win a Stanley Cup. For every Forsberg, there has been how many others who weren't Forsberg? Of course Canadians have failed in the NHL.

How difficult is the Swedish Elite League?

2012-13 MVP George "Bud" Holloway March 1, 1988 (age 25) Wapella, SK, CANADA Drafted; 3rd Round 2006 LA Kings

Season Team League GP G A Pts

2004–05 Seattle WHL 67 4 11 15

2005-06 Seattle WHL 72 21 13 34

2006-07 Seattle WHL 71 27 38 65

2007-08 Seattle WHL 70 43 40 83

2008–09 Manchester AHL 38 7 5 12

2009–10 Manchester AHL 75 19 28 47

2010–11 Manchester AHL 78 28 33 61

2011–12 Skellefteå SEL 55 21 28 49

2011–12 Skellefteå SEL 55 20 51 71 MVP

A fringe prospect from Canada is MVP and leading scorer of the Swedish Elite League and we are going to say that we should pin our dreams on a kid (Lindholm) that can "play against men" in this "TOP LEAGUE" because some scouts say he is the next Forsberg against a star (Monahan) in the OHL? You HAVE to be kidding me.

Hmmm...very interesting. I`ve always laughed when someone says so and so is better because he plays against men in some Euro league.

A couple of years ago it was Joel ARmia, last year it was Filip Forsberg, this year it is Lindholm.

My question has always been: are those adults any good?

I mean look at Jankrok; the guy absolutely sucked in the AHL, accumulating only 3 assists in 9 games as a top prospect, but he tears it up in the Swedish elite league upon his return.

And that ain`t a knock on Jankrok, but on those who consider the Swedish Elite league to be the European version of the NHL.

Plus, when somebody says player A is playing against men, my question, aside from the obvious question of whether he is actually steering the boat or along for the ride when he is thrown out there, is, `Does that mean he is playing with other teens?` Yeah, it`s obviously predominantly men that are playing on his own team, as well, and if the opposition in the Swede league is substantially better than the CHL, then, as a corollary, so too is the quality of teammates.

I, for one, think the circumstances that make up the raw data for advanced stats are way more important than the minor difference in quality of leagues. For example, if Lindholm is getting shielded with 70% O zone starts and playing against the other teams` bottom rotation, does that mean he is better than, for example, Monohan who had to face the other teams`top lines, especially in the defensive zone, with mediocre to poor teammates?

Now that is not to say Lindholm may be better than Monohan, but don`t throw around statistics without context or declare that some Euro league is a better guage of a young teen`s talent than the CHL or NCAA, cuz that is absolute crap. There is a reason that CHL prospects have historically made up a majority of the NHL`s players.

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#56 the-wolf
May 21 2013, 07:30AM
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If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin wrote:

Hmmm...very interesting. I`ve always laughed when someone says so and so is better because he plays against men in some Euro league.

A couple of years ago it was Joel ARmia, last year it was Filip Forsberg, this year it is Lindholm.

My question has always been: are those adults any good?

I mean look at Jankrok; the guy absolutely sucked in the AHL, accumulating only 3 assists in 9 games as a top prospect, but he tears it up in the Swedish elite league upon his return.

And that ain`t a knock on Jankrok, but on those who consider the Swedish Elite league to be the European version of the NHL.

Plus, when somebody says player A is playing against men, my question, aside from the obvious question of whether he is actually steering the boat or along for the ride when he is thrown out there, is, `Does that mean he is playing with other teens?` Yeah, it`s obviously predominantly men that are playing on his own team, as well, and if the opposition in the Swede league is substantially better than the CHL, then, as a corollary, so too is the quality of teammates.

I, for one, think the circumstances that make up the raw data for advanced stats are way more important than the minor difference in quality of leagues. For example, if Lindholm is getting shielded with 70% O zone starts and playing against the other teams` bottom rotation, does that mean he is better than, for example, Monohan who had to face the other teams`top lines, especially in the defensive zone, with mediocre to poor teammates?

Now that is not to say Lindholm may be better than Monohan, but don`t throw around statistics without context or declare that some Euro league is a better guage of a young teen`s talent than the CHL or NCAA, cuz that is absolute crap. There is a reason that CHL prospects have historically made up a majority of the NHL`s players.

Thank you for all of this. I too am tired of the whole "against men" thing.

The motivational and compete levels are completely different between the CHL and Euro leagues. As is the physical game. Playing once a week on the big ice surface is not the same as riding the bus and playing 2-3 times a week plus school, etc.

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#57 shutout
May 21 2013, 01:28PM
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Fifth round pick option. Jesse Lees.

Local kid played bantam and midget with the Northstars. Pretty good offensive numbers for a young guy on the Kelowna Rockets.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=62263

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/columnist/woodlief/2013/03/01/february-red-line-report/1955773/

"Lees is one of the youngest players in the draft (Sept. 14 birthdate), and was buried on Kelowna's deep blue-line depth chart early on. But his terrific puck skills and offensive instincts have forced him up that chart, and now he's even crashing the power play unit and producing points regularly."

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#58 shutout
May 21 2013, 01:42PM
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Dillon Heatherington Swift Current (WHL)

May 9/95 D L 6'3/196

71 gp 4 23 27 pts

Thinking that this is a third round pick option for us.

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#59 shutout
May 21 2013, 01:55PM
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Patrik Bartosak

http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospectdetail.htm?cat=3&dpid=10784&sort=finalRank&year=2013

http://whl.ca/roster/show/id/9147

This is the late round (6th) goalie option that I think that we will look at.

Curtis Valk is a fourth or fifth round pick option that we look at:

http://www.whl.ca/roster/show/id/685

Mitch Wheaton is a late round fourth or fifth round big defenseman option that we could look at:

http://whl.ca/roster/show/id/10815

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#60 McRib
May 22 2013, 11:52AM
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Jackson Houck would be my pick for the Flames in the third round!!! He is incredibly underrated playing for the worst WHL team, while leading them in scoring with little help. Also Kyle Burroughs of Regina came on like gangbusters late, he would be a serviceable pick in the middle rounds another Brett Kulak type.

On a related note this year is easily going to be the best draft year in history for Calgary area kids. Hunter Shinkaruk, Josh Morrissey, Morgan Klimchuk, Dillon Heatherington, Jesse Lees, Cole Ully, Myles Bell will all be drafted and AJHLers (John Edwardth, Nelson Gadoury) have an outside chance as well.

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