Random Thoughts - Jarome Revealed and picking Zach Fucale

Kent Wilson
June 10 2013 10:41AM

 

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- pic via seventwentysk

 

Jarome Iginla's attempt to pull a Ray Bourque was put to rest by the Boston Bruins recently, a grimly ironic result after the whole "Iginla to the Bruins" kerfuffle. Some are no doubt pointing to karmic retribution, but, really, the post-season is where dreams get crushed without mercy all the time.

I don't wish Jarome any ill will and sincerely hope he manages to cap off his great career with a cup win at some point. What's more interesting from a Flames perspective is how Iginla fared in his new digs. Not as any sort of enduring indictment of the captain, you understad, but just because one of the most useful analytic gauges of a team and a player are when a guy switches clubs. This allows you to compare his pre-and-post outcomes in order to determine to what degree his failures or successes were team/circumstance based.

Meaning, if Iginla had gone to Pittsburgh and suddenly started to drive possession again, then we'd know something had gone very wrong in Calgary - be it in terms of strategy, coaching or quality of linemates.

Instead, the opposite was true - the erstwhile captain's struggles continued in Pittsburgh, despite a vastly superior team. Iginla finished the playoffs with a -7.2/60 relative corsi, despite a very favorable 58.3% zone start. He also spent a lot of time with Malkin and Crosby through the first two series before Dan Bylsma eventually gave up and dropped him down the rotation.

Those are surprisingly abysmal underlying numbers, even granting the fact that Iggy has had trouble moving the puck north for the last few years here. They suggest Jarome has devolved to the kind of guy who can't really be effectively sheltered at this point in his career; that he will be a liability at 5on5 in just about any top-9 rotation. I'm guessing those numbers are somewhat overstated by a few of factors, including playing on his off-wing, some uncertainty about joining a new team after nearly two decades in Calgary and the much stronger level of competition in the playoffs relative to the regular season.

Still, it's fairly clear that Jarome's downturn as an effective top gun in Calgary wasn't caused by environmental factors. There was always a chance something in the local water had turned down the dial for Iggy, but he got a couple months to play on the wing of two of the most dominant centers in the league (starting in the o-zone more often than most to boot) and he still spent more time in the defensive zone than the opposition. 

- It will be interesting to see what Iginla chooses to do in the off-season. He's made a ton of money in his career and all that's really left is to win the cup. Most of the legit contenders outside of St. Louis won't have much cap space left to invest in a player like Jarome, particularly after his turn in Pittsburgh reveled him as a supporting piece (at best) on a quality team these days. For the record, I don't think there's any chance he comes back to Calgary.

- There's lot of talk about "big changes" coming in PIT after the sweep, which is pretty silly in my estimation. The Pens still boast some of the best players on the planet. Also, as well as Boston played in the third round, there's no question Pittsburgh simply hit a string bad luck as well.

What Ray Shero should be worried about is the bottom-end of his roster. Without Jordan Staal anchoring the third line that portion of their club has taken a huge hit, to the degree that the top-end isn't quite able to float them possession-wise against good teams as much, which is problematic given how often Crosby/Malkin tend to get injured. The later rotation should be relatively easy to fix, assuming the team asks the right questions this summer though.

What they shouldn't do is fire Dan Bylsma, trade key pieces or keep MA Fleury. Find some competent guys to patrol the bottom-six, firm up the blueline somewhat and get rid of the needlessly expensive mediocre goaltender and things should all be well.

- Switching gears, a lot of arrows are pointing to the Flames being interested in probable first round pick Zach Fucale, who is the highest ranked goalie in the upcoming draft. Both Bob Hartley and John Weisbrod have publicly praised the Halifax Moosehead's starter recently.

We've gone over this before in this space, but I'll re-iterate that taking a goalie in the first round is a generally a terrible bet. Unless you are sure a guy is more or less a generational talent, it's always prudent to a pick a skater.

I came to this conclusion a long time ago at my personal blog, and subsequent investigations by smarter men than me have all pretty much confirmed my suspicions: that forecasting the future of 18 year puckstoppers is the toughest gig an NHL scout has. There are all sorts of systemic and market reasons why picking goalies high in the draft is a bad idea, but I want to focus and expand on why goalies are so difficult to project and develop.

The path to starter-dom for a goalie is incredibly narrow relative to skaters. There are 12 forward positions and 6 defender positions on any given team - and one starting goalie. Skaters can be gradually developed in lower ends of the rotation and work their way up until they hit a ceiling. Skaters can also be developed into a variety of roles ranging from shut-down defender to the powerplay specialist. You can stick a slow guy with a faster guy to help cover up his mobility issues. You can play a rookie with a veteran to help him with the defensive side of the game. You can protect a defensively suspect sniper by starting him in the offensive zone way more often than the defensive zone.

So when picking skaters in the draft, you can essentially pick them for a multiplicity of end-points. Maybe the kid pegged as a future power forward becomes a checking winger instead. Maybe that defender who scored a bunch of points actually becomes a second pairing, two-way guy. Skaters are easier to protect, easier to develop and they can be groomed to take on more than a single role. Essentially, for a rookie skater to make the team, he just has to be better than the one or two of the worst options ahead of him on the depth chart. Then you can groom him and move him up from there, depending on his abilities and progression.

There's no such opportunity or flexibility with goalies. They simply have to stop the puck at a higher rate than the next guy. A goaltender's mistakes are the highest impact errors on the ice, so there's no sheltering him on the 4th line or on the powerplay. As a result, there are no multiple roles or fall back positions for drafted goaltenders - in contrast to skaters they have to be better than the best available option for the organization at every given point in order to garner playing time. Meaning there are far greater obstacles standing in the way of every prospective goalie's development path.

Let's put it another way - if you were to target centers in the draft but only one center could play for each team every year, that means you more or less have to hit a homerun with that pick - if the chosen center isn't a future number one center (that is, one of the best 30 in the league), then he's more or less worthless.

And that's how it is with goalies. Either you choose a guy who will be a high-end puckstopper in the show a few years down the road, or you have more or less flushed a pick down the toilet.

Goaltenders are the higest impact single players on any given team, so it's incredibly beneficial to land a quality puckstopper in the draft. The problem is, projecting goalies is hard and developing goalies is hard. Much harder than skaters. Goaltending is also often cheaper to purchase in the UFA and trade market as well. So, for example, trading a first round pick for an established NHL goalie usually makes a lot more sense than drafting one with that same first rounder.

So, in short - please don't take Zach Fucale Jay.

- In case you missed it, all of the Flames first round picks have been solidified now that the Pens are done: 6, 22, and 28. One of the reasons I envision the Flames targeting Fucale is they get two skaters they really like at 6 and 22 and then decide to take chance on him with that 28th overall pick (assuming he's still available). That is, of course, if the club doesn't trade it for something.

Around the Nations

 

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Former Nations Overlord. Current FN contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#1 Southern_Point
June 10 2013, 10:59AM
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I spend a lot of time on hockey message boards and it's interesting to see the average Pittsburgh fan try to explain the loss. Inevitably Jarome Iginla comes up and they end up blaming Bylsma for not using him properly. Granted Bylsma probably would have been better served placing Iginla at right wing instead of left wing, but I got the sense pretty early on in the playoffs that Bylsma had no clue where to put him, largely because Iginla is such 5 on 5 liability.

If anyone is looking for something to blame for the loss the additions of Doug Murray and Jarome are probably it. Two guys who looked visibly behind the play and oit of sorts on the high skill Penguins team.

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#2 Bean-counting cowboy
June 10 2013, 11:09AM
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It will be very interesting to see where Jarome ends up and for how much money. It seems completely up in the air at this point.

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#3 the-wolf
June 10 2013, 11:14AM
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RE: Jarome. Always the best in-shape player on the team, year after year, so I don't believe it's an issue of age. Nor was it playing out of position. Iginla routinely roamed the left side of the ice in Calgary.

Instead, it's what happens when a player is allowed to play however the heck he wants, for years on end. Entitlement sets in and Iginla is the old dog that won't learn a new trick. I'd say "can't," but that's not true. There were a few times in that series where I saw Iginla come back and make wonderful backchecks, including taking away at least one sure goal. Issue is, the commitment to do that continually is just not there. In Jarome's mind he's there to score goals and that's that.

I don't really care if Jarome wins a Cup. If he does, good for him, I guess. But it had to be a stinging lesson to agree to go to the Bruins, Feaster arrange the deal, renege on it, and then have the Bruins kick you out in 4 straight. "What could have been" is surely floating around in his head and he deserves it.

The relationship between Iginla and the Flames clearly ended on a sour note and given that plus his terrible play, there is zero chance he comes back to Calgary.

As for the goalie in the 1st round part, it can't be said any better thatn that and I hope Calgary learns it's leasson from Kidd and Irving that it would be a terrible move.

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#4 icedawg_42
June 10 2013, 11:20AM
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the-wolf wrote:

RE: Jarome. Always the best in-shape player on the team, year after year, so I don't believe it's an issue of age. Nor was it playing out of position. Iginla routinely roamed the left side of the ice in Calgary.

Instead, it's what happens when a player is allowed to play however the heck he wants, for years on end. Entitlement sets in and Iginla is the old dog that won't learn a new trick. I'd say "can't," but that's not true. There were a few times in that series where I saw Iginla come back and make wonderful backchecks, including taking away at least one sure goal. Issue is, the commitment to do that continually is just not there. In Jarome's mind he's there to score goals and that's that.

I don't really care if Jarome wins a Cup. If he does, good for him, I guess. But it had to be a stinging lesson to agree to go to the Bruins, Feaster arrange the deal, renege on it, and then have the Bruins kick you out in 4 straight. "What could have been" is surely floating around in his head and he deserves it.

The relationship between Iginla and the Flames clearly ended on a sour note and given that plus his terrible play, there is zero chance he comes back to Calgary.

As for the goalie in the 1st round part, it can't be said any better thatn that and I hope Calgary learns it's leasson from Kidd and Irving that it would be a terrible move.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Jarome's decline one way or another started with Keenan's awful coaching.

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#5 the-wolf
June 10 2013, 11:22AM
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Southern_Point wrote:

I spend a lot of time on hockey message boards and it's interesting to see the average Pittsburgh fan try to explain the loss. Inevitably Jarome Iginla comes up and they end up blaming Bylsma for not using him properly. Granted Bylsma probably would have been better served placing Iginla at right wing instead of left wing, but I got the sense pretty early on in the playoffs that Bylsma had no clue where to put him, largely because Iginla is such 5 on 5 liability.

If anyone is looking for something to blame for the loss the additions of Doug Murray and Jarome are probably it. Two guys who looked visibly behind the play and oit of sorts on the high skill Penguins team.

As stated, I don't think position mattered. Iginla was essentially an offensive rover who played on whatever part of the ice that suited his fancy while waiting to be set up for the 1-timer.

Also, if Jarome had gone to the Bruins, the results would be no different. If he had gone to a 3rd team altogether, the results would be no different.

In other words, Jarome is essentially a non-factor. He certainly didn't help the Pens, but I don't believe he cost them either.

Interesting comment you make about the Pens fans and Jarome. It just goes to show, even in todays' world of mass media, internet, sports TV, advanced stats and unending analysis ffrom 'expert' panels, just how far and how long a reputation will carry a player. Pens fans seem to be under the same misconception as many Flames fans, that Iginla is still a superstar circa 2004.

If anything, it makes me feel even better (I was OK with it before) regarding the return we got back for Iginla.

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#6 Baalzamon
June 10 2013, 11:43AM
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@the-wolf

"I hope Calgary learns it's leasson from Kidd and Irving that it would be a terrible move."

Brent Krahn.

Personally, I'm REALLY hoping that New Jersey takes Fucale. There's actually a chance of it, too, considering how insane Lou Lamoriello has seemed lately.

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#7 Bean-counting cowboy
June 10 2013, 12:00PM
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@the-wolf

My thoughts exactly on Jarome. Now others in the league are figuring out what we've known for some time.

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#8 Rockmorton65
June 10 2013, 12:03PM
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Anyone else wonder if Jarome just retires? Not only has he obviously lost a step, but the last 2 or 3 years he doesnt seem to have that same fire, like he's phoning it in. Even in the conference finals, he looked almost disinterested.

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#9 TheRealPoc
June 10 2013, 12:06PM
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the-wolf wrote:

RE: Jarome. Always the best in-shape player on the team, year after year, so I don't believe it's an issue of age. Nor was it playing out of position. Iginla routinely roamed the left side of the ice in Calgary.

Instead, it's what happens when a player is allowed to play however the heck he wants, for years on end. Entitlement sets in and Iginla is the old dog that won't learn a new trick. I'd say "can't," but that's not true. There were a few times in that series where I saw Iginla come back and make wonderful backchecks, including taking away at least one sure goal. Issue is, the commitment to do that continually is just not there. In Jarome's mind he's there to score goals and that's that.

I don't really care if Jarome wins a Cup. If he does, good for him, I guess. But it had to be a stinging lesson to agree to go to the Bruins, Feaster arrange the deal, renege on it, and then have the Bruins kick you out in 4 straight. "What could have been" is surely floating around in his head and he deserves it.

The relationship between Iginla and the Flames clearly ended on a sour note and given that plus his terrible play, there is zero chance he comes back to Calgary.

As for the goalie in the 1st round part, it can't be said any better thatn that and I hope Calgary learns it's leasson from Kidd and Irving that it would be a terrible move.

I have a real hard time reading the tone in which people are talking about the man who almost singlehandedly saved pro hockey in Calgary. Maybe you've forgotten Hotchkiss crying on TV during the Save Our Flames ticket drive, but I haven't. Without Jarome reigniting interest in this market, the Flames were as good as gone.

He owed the Flames nothing. Given the millions in additional windfall he was responsible for, the organization owed it to him to honour his final request after 16 years. And they did.

And it's time for us to drop it.

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#10 Parallex
June 10 2013, 12:08PM
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Really don't want Fucale, why burn a first on Fucale when you can probably grab Tristan Jarry who is slightly bigger and has better stats in the third/fourth round if you're deadset on getting a tender? (although I don't want the 3rd rounder used on a goalie either).

That being said I could see the Flames taking him at 28... if only so that they could say that they got the "best something" (in this case goaltender) in the draft for Jarome. As a PR move it's a whole lot easier to sell the casual fan on trading the captain for the "best" goalie and #1 goalie of the future (as the sports media folk are almost sure to call him while neglecting to mention the bust rate or lagged development curve on goalies) then selling them on a guy who'll likely be tapped as a second line forward or middle pairing D.

I really hope Fucale is gone to some other team by then just so they won't have the temptation.

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#11 Jeff Lebowski
June 10 2013, 12:10PM
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I don't see any point in remarking about Iggy anymore.

If the 6th is used on Fucale (rated 7 by Button) I will be extremely disappointed. I'm hoping a lot of the public comments made by Flame officials regarding the draft are just tactics.

My hope for the rebuild is to build the team as if goaltending was a horrible weakness. What's the best way to counter terrible goaltending? Keep the puck.

Calgary needs talented skaters (with size) who can possess and protect the puck. Calgary really needs elite talent and with their highest pick they need offensive upside.

IMO it would be a waste to pick Fucale or any goalie with any pick this year.

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#12 Parallex
June 10 2013, 12:14PM
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Rockmorton65 wrote:

Anyone else wonder if Jarome just retires? Not only has he obviously lost a step, but the last 2 or 3 years he doesnt seem to have that same fire, like he's phoning it in. Even in the conference finals, he looked almost disinterested.

I don't, He wants Lord Stanley's mug and he'll want at least one more kick at that can.

If comfort (phoning it in) was his main concern he'd just extend here in Calgary where he already has a house/friends/adoring public/scotiabank endorsements. He'll sign somewhere that he thinks has a shot at winning and he'll do it at a cheap enough rate to accomadate their cap situation.

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#13 Parallex
June 10 2013, 12:16PM
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@Jeff Lebowski

If the 6th is used on Fucale I'll bring the pitchforks if someone else will bring the torches.

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#14 Ed Ward
June 10 2013, 12:23PM
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@Kent I totally agree with you that Pittsburgh really has a straightforward task a head of them in order to improve their team. Fixing your bottom 6 and depth defenseman has to be one of the easier tasks for a GM, it's acquiring elite talent that's so difficult and the Pens have arguably the two top players in the league.

Despite the relatively low difficulty of this task, I question if Sherro is up to the challenge. I used to have a very high opinion of the man but his moves at the deadline really damaged my opinion of him. In an attempt to bolster the depth of his team he gave up not insignificant assets for three players who had been underwater in terms of possession. Unsurprisingly all three of those players were liabilities for the Pens in the post season. Even if they had "worked out," the thought process that led to their acquisition is troubling. To be fair, Plenty of GM's swing and miss on deadline day but to see Sherro employ such a flawed process when it came to adding depth pieces makes me really question if he will be able to do a better job this summer. Even more it makes me question his chops as a GM. Maybe his reputation is more built on the fact it's pretty easy to build a contender when you have the best two players in the world and not much actual GMing ability.

Dam Brian Burke maybe being right about something

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#15 suba steve
June 10 2013, 12:26PM
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@TheRealPoc

Jarome was a great Flame, but the people of Calgary supported this team before he came along and will continue to do so now that he is gone. Iggy obviously gets a ton of respect for what he did in Calgary. So much respect, in fact, that he was allowed to get away with a lot of behaviour on the ice that would not have been tollerated from others. He is not above criticism, even if you have declared that he is.

You are correct that he owes the Flames/city nothing. And, other then the respect that I would extend to any man, that is exactly what I owe him in return.

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#16 negrilcowboy
June 10 2013, 12:26PM
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what we seen in jroam's play against boston is not unlike his efforts in calgary the last three full seasons. it was simply magnified in the playoffs. as for disco mismanaging him, other than third or fourth line minutes and standing in front of the net ala dornhoffer jroam is flatout brutal. the pitt experiment failed, now jroam is off to the wings or will join his pal gags in dallas. strong indicators out of pitt is that mario wants heads to roll, after disco dan's statement of fluery being the franchise goalie i have a gut feeling neither will be there come next season.

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#17 TheRealPoc
June 10 2013, 12:29PM
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Never mind the difficulty of evaluating goaltenders when they're 18 years old...drafting Fucale with one of our 1sts when we already have a tender pipeline chock full with the likes of Jon Gillies and Laurent Brossoit would be ridiculously ignorant.

All three of those picks should be used on skaters, no ifs ands or buts.

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#18 TheRealPoc
June 10 2013, 12:32PM
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@suba steve

And what kind of "behaviour" is that? This is exactly what I mean - it's getting ridiculous.

BTW, he wasn't just a great Flame, he was the greatest Flame. Inarguable.

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#19 piscera.infada
June 10 2013, 12:33PM
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No way the Flames EVER take Fucale with the 6th pick. That's ridiculous. I can't even see them taking him at 28th. It's probably all posturing for the teams in the 20-30 range that might want him in the second round.

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#20 piscera.infada
June 10 2013, 12:39PM
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TheRealPoc wrote:

And what kind of "behaviour" is that? This is exactly what I mean - it's getting ridiculous.

BTW, he wasn't just a great Flame, he was the greatest Flame. Inarguable.

Agree with the second part, but whether on the part of his teammates, him, or coaches/management, he became "the team" for the last couple years - and not in a constructive way. The moves the Flames made, the way the team played, the way the coaches coached was all geared towards Iggy - keep him happy, increase HIS productivity, not anyone else's.

I grew up watching Iggy, he was always my favorite player - always. But his time was up, and I'm glad he's gone. We (the fans) need to move on, he needs to move on, the team NEEDED him gone.

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#21 backburner
June 10 2013, 12:40PM
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I'm ok with taking Fucale at 28th. Its basically there 2nd round pick.

Look at Rask and Quick: a hot goalie can win Championships, It wouldn't be a bad thing to build a team from the net out.

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#22 Graham
June 10 2013, 12:41PM
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We have several young goalies in the system, so selecting a goalie in the first round is a risky, unnecessary waste. We have far more pressing needs elsewhere. Feaster needs to draft a quality center first, followed by either a forward (size and speed) or a d man (physical / shut down)with the second pick, and reverse it with the third. No risks, no going off the draft board, and please Feaster keep the bluster down to something approaching reality when you make your pick.

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#23 negrilcowboy
June 10 2013, 12:42PM
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why would anyone who now has the 2 best goalies in the world outside the nhl now in the nhl pick a goalie. why not be completely moronic and acquire fluery to complete the stupidity act.

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#24 Double Dion
June 10 2013, 12:45PM
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I've been saying it since Keenan's first year in Calgary. Iginla was coddled, spoiled and was the litmus test on what was wrong with the Flames. He became an incredibly selfish player to keep his offensive numbers up. No coincidence that the teams left have stars that play both ends of the ice. For those people saying that Iginla "saved" hockey in Calgary, give your head a shake. Fans and ownership kept the team here. Iginla was a great player from 2001-2006, but he sure left a bitter taste in my mouth and was directly (but not solely) responsible for the teams floundering over the past 6-7 years.

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#25 suba steve
June 10 2013, 12:49PM
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@TheRealPoc

"BTW, he wasn't just a great Flame, he was the greatest Flame. Inarguable."

I guess you should let Lanny, and Theo, and Al, and Doug, and Gary, and Mike, and Mikka know.

He seems to be one of your favorite Flames, and that's great. But to quote Public Enemy, "Elvis was a hero to most, but he never meant sh__ to me". NOTHING is inarguable.

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#26 RKD
June 10 2013, 01:14PM
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If Iggy chose to go to the Pens and not the Bruins, I don't see him as 'screwing the Flames'. That would be all Darryl Sutter's doing. Remember Mats Sundin a guy who refused to waive his no trade clause only to leave via free agency screwed the Leafs.

Iggy was asked to provide a list of 5 teams and if he really wanted to go to the Pens it was Feaster's responsibility to honour that request regardless of whether or not the deal to Boston was better. Trust me Flames fans, underwhelming returns for Iggy, Reg and Jay Bo are better than no return at all like Sundin. Three first round picks this year to change the franchise is a big step in the right direction.

Back to Iggy, he was re-motivated in the playoffs and did put up some good numbers points wise. But yeah, he looks a step slower and more often than not is a defensive liability and has become more prone to giveaways by turning the puck over. He and Morrow already stated they want to stay in Pittsburgh but I'm not sure that's possible given cap space.

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#27 Parallex
June 10 2013, 01:19PM
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piscera.infada wrote:

Agree with the second part, but whether on the part of his teammates, him, or coaches/management, he became "the team" for the last couple years - and not in a constructive way. The moves the Flames made, the way the team played, the way the coaches coached was all geared towards Iggy - keep him happy, increase HIS productivity, not anyone else's.

I grew up watching Iggy, he was always my favorite player - always. But his time was up, and I'm glad he's gone. We (the fans) need to move on, he needs to move on, the team NEEDED him gone.

The way the coaches coached was not at all geared towards Iggy and increasing his (Iginla's)personal counting stats/productivity. I mean, were you paying attention to how Butter deployed lines? If that's how the coaches were planning on increasing Iginla's personal productivity then he (Butter) was more incompetant then I thought... what with all the PvP and defensive zone draws. It probably would have been better for the team if he had.

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#28 piscera.infada
June 10 2013, 01:28PM
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@Parallex

I was pointing to more of an amalgamation of things, not necessarily coaching in all situations. I think for much of the last few years his linemates were asked to play to his strengths regardless of what their expertise was. But I also think that the superstar status of Iggy lead to him being deployed by the coaches in situations he shouldn't have been in (as you alluded to).

On the subject of Dutter's line deployment, I can assure you, he is incompetent. I never knew what that guy was doing. Although I thought it was amazing when he sent out 5 D-men for that powerplay a few years back.

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#29 Kevin R
June 10 2013, 01:49PM
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Iggy will come back & be a piece for a contender, just for a lot less money than people think. 3-4mill tops for 2-3 years tops. Anything more than that is an act of stupidity. He can still score goals, give him a full year acclimatizing with whichever team he signs with. My money is he gets reunited with Dutter in lA.

God, please no, no goalie in the 1st round. On a positive side, at least we moved up to 20th in the ranking on Hockey Futures & Sven is ranked 10th overall. That has to say something. Next year I would expect us to move up to the early teens. By the way, they had Janko rated in our top 5.

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#30 kittensandcookies
June 10 2013, 02:32PM
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TheRealPoc wrote:

I have a real hard time reading the tone in which people are talking about the man who almost singlehandedly saved pro hockey in Calgary. Maybe you've forgotten Hotchkiss crying on TV during the Save Our Flames ticket drive, but I haven't. Without Jarome reigniting interest in this market, the Flames were as good as gone.

He owed the Flames nothing. Given the millions in additional windfall he was responsible for, the organization owed it to him to honour his final request after 16 years. And they did.

And it's time for us to drop it.

Dutter saved the franchise with a miracle SC run.

Dutter made shrewd trades and coached (and still coaches) very, very well. And then he went insane.

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#31 Baalzamon
June 10 2013, 02:42PM
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backburner wrote:

I'm ok with taking Fucale at 28th. Its basically there 2nd round pick.

Look at Rask and Quick: a hot goalie can win Championships, It wouldn't be a bad thing to build a team from the net out.

Only if Fucale is, in fact, that goalie. Or, more specifically, if there was any reason to THINK Fucale is that goalie. As it stands right now, both Laurent Brossoit and (especially) Jon Gillies are tracking better than Fucale and his spectacularly unimpressive .909 sv%.

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#32 Parallex
June 10 2013, 02:48PM
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Kevin R wrote:

Iggy will come back & be a piece for a contender, just for a lot less money than people think. 3-4mill tops for 2-3 years tops. Anything more than that is an act of stupidity. He can still score goals, give him a full year acclimatizing with whichever team he signs with. My money is he gets reunited with Dutter in lA.

God, please no, no goalie in the 1st round. On a positive side, at least we moved up to 20th in the ranking on Hockey Futures & Sven is ranked 10th overall. That has to say something. Next year I would expect us to move up to the early teens. By the way, they had Janko rated in our top 5.

Yeah, I could see Sutter worming his way into Lombardi's head and convincing him to go after Iggy... in which case we should get ahead of the ball and try and trade Tanguay to LA... He's one of Sutter's guys and Iggy's bud.

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#34 Mamie Jacouns Love Child
June 10 2013, 03:06PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

"I hope Calgary learns it's leasson from Kidd and Irving that it would be a terrible move."

Brent Krahn.

Personally, I'm REALLY hoping that New Jersey takes Fucale. There's actually a chance of it, too, considering how insane Lou Lamoriello has seemed lately.

Yeah the same LouLam that took a kid out of the Q named Marty Brodeur...~ that was quite insane wasnt it ~

(Yes I know it was a mid to late first round pick -- but if anyone knows tenders its Lou.)

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#35 Graham
June 10 2013, 03:11PM
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Iggy was paid $56 million over the last 8 seasons, not counting endorsements etc...

For us mere mortals, say you average $70,000 per year over your 'work' lifetime, that would take 18 people each working 45 years to match his 8 years pay. (and we would be working roughly 2,080 hours a year, rather than the 2,080 minutes a year played by Iggy)

Now, Iggy was an elite hockey player for most of his career, but not any more. Iggy moved on, now its time for the Iggy worship to move on as well.

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#36 Scott Nichol
June 10 2013, 03:24PM
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@Kent Wilson

Who are you thinking goes the other way? Gio or Brodie?

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#38 RexLibris
June 10 2013, 03:29PM
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@Kent Wilson

That would be a good idea, but given that Feaster could have made a trade for Jeff Carter or Kyle Turris when he had the chance, I'd be surprised if he actually made that move.

I wonder if MacTavish doesn't dangle Smid and a pick.

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#40 the-wolf
June 10 2013, 03:34PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

I knew I forgot something to add this morning.

McKenzie recently noted the Flyers want defensive help badly and are offering one of Schenn or Courturier in return.

I hope Feaster is on top of that. Calgary can sweeten a potential deal by accepting that Briere contract (which is cheaper money wise than cap hit).

Does Briere have any sort of NMC?

Feaster should be out there in person trying to get something done, even if it means moving Gio.

I've always been a huge fan of Gio, but there's no sense in moving him "post-apex" when we could get a "pre-apex" asset back right now. To not dos so would be "intellectually dishonest."

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#41 BurningSensation
June 10 2013, 03:44PM
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RexLibris wrote:

That would be a good idea, but given that Feaster could have made a trade for Jeff Carter or Kyle Turris when he had the chance, I'd be surprised if he actually made that move.

I wonder if MacTavish doesn't dangle Smid and a pick.

Not sure about Jeff Carter, but my understanding is that Feaster went after Kyle Turris pretty hard, but didn't want to pay the price the Sens were willing to offer.

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#43 Baalzamon
June 10 2013, 04:02PM
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@RexLibris

The Flames couldn't have matched either of the offers that ultimately got those players (not on paper, anyway. People still seem to be under the impression that Johnson is good)

For all we know, the Flames were the runners-up in both trades.

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#44 Rockmorton65
June 10 2013, 04:03PM
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@Kent Wilson

Gio, Butler & 22nd for Brayden Schenn & Couturier?

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#45 Baalzamon
June 10 2013, 04:05PM
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Mamie Jacouns Love Child wrote:

Yeah the same LouLam that took a kid out of the Q named Marty Brodeur...~ that was quite insane wasnt it ~

(Yes I know it was a mid to late first round pick -- but if anyone knows tenders its Lou.)

Please note that I used the word "lately" before you make mention of a franchise player Lamoriello fluked into 100 years ago.

For the record: the same LouLam that got his team penalized BY THE LEAGUE for signing Ilya Kovalchuk then, when given a choice of which 1st rounder he surrendered, decided to KEEP the 29th pick in a ridiculously weak draft.

Yeah, that LouLam's a real genius.

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#47 Ed Ward
June 10 2013, 04:15PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

I knew I forgot something to add this morning.

McKenzie recently noted the Flyers want defensive help badly and are offering one of Schenn or Courturier in return.

I hope Feaster is on top of that. Calgary can sweeten a potential deal by accepting that Briere contract (which is cheaper money wise than cap hit).

You think Gio for Couts and Briere gets it done? I'm up for any trade that gets us Couts that doesn't involve #6, Backs, Brodie or Sven

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#48 backburner
June 10 2013, 04:16PM
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Courturier for Gio straight up.

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#49 xis10ce
June 10 2013, 04:17PM
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Montreal Canadians have 3 x 2nd round picks, ours being one of them from the Bourque/Cammy trade. It's my hope that not only do we not take Fucale, but that we water down that 28th overall to 2 x 2nd rounders, thus it won't be viewed as Iggys 1st begot X player.

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#50 Rockmorton65
June 10 2013, 04:20PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

I'm not a Luke Schenn fan, frankly.

What about Gio, Butler & 22 for Brayden and Couts?

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