Flames First Round Targets 2013: Ryan Hartman

Ryan Pike
June 26 2013 09:36AM

 

Tonight's Bout
- pic via Jason McDonald

 

When the regular season ended, much of the discussion points from Bob Hartley and Jay Feaster revolved around the Flames becoming harder to play against. The team has a lot of skilled forwards, you see, but the skilled guys aren't huge and their huge guys aren't all that skilled.

Thus, you need to find some fairly skilled gritty players to add to your team. But Feaster noted that it's hard to add grit through free agency – teams tend to value their gritty guys, as made evident by Brandon Prust's free agency payday. You generally have to draft these kind of players – see also: Roberts, Gary.

In many, many ways, I think that Plymouth Whalers forward Ryan Hartman is a perfect fit for the Calgary Flames.

SCOUTING REPORTS

A lot of hockey people got a good long look at Ryan Hartman via a trio of major events – the 2012 World Under-18 Championship, the 2013 World Juniors and the 2013 Top Prospects Game.

At the U-18s, Hartman won a gold medal in a supporting role. He had six points and 22 penalty minutes (leading the Americans), 12 of which were from a checking to the head incident against Denmark. At the World Juniors this past winter, Hartman was physical but a bit less reckless and won another gold medal in a supporting role. He had three points and 16 penalty minutes for his team, but is best remembered for big checks and fore-checking. I loved him at the Top Prospects Game, as he fought Kerby Rychel and threw a bunch of hits that kept Team Orr's players off-balance when he was on the ice.

In his first year in the OHL, after two seasons with the US National Development Team, Hartman had slightly over a point-per-game average with Plymouth. He also had 120 penalty minutes, which works out to six regular season fights and a whole whack of minor penalties. He plays with an edge, but the penalty-taking could be a concern.

Scouts are a bit all over the place with where they rank Hartman, but they all generally say similar things. Future Considerations' Aaron Vickers praises Hartman's physicality and willingness to drive the net. Red Line Report calls him “nasty, chippy and aggressive.” Corey Pronman of Hockey Prospectus praises his two-way value. Just about everybody who's seen him play characterizes him as a pain in the ass for the other team.

In short: he's a tad undersized (5'11”, just under 190), but he plays like he's bigger and makes the other team worry about him most of the time. He will take a few penalties, but he's a strong two-way player who adapted to the OHL fairly quickly after jumping from the USHL. He seems to come from the same basic mindset as Flames draftee Patrick Sieloff – and also happens to be from the same basic part of the USA and has played with a lot of the Flames American prospects already via the USA Hockey national team. Another modern comparable may be Cal Clutterbuck, who has 69 points in 66 games as well as 139 PIMs in his draft season (2006) where he was picked in the third round.

The Numbers

Hartman's 60 points in 56 games comes out to a 1/07 PPG pace, or an NHLE of 26. That's okay and actually right in line with the output of many of the mid-to-late first rounders available this season. Of course, he also has a September 1994 birthday so he is also one of the oldest guys available at the draft.

Combined, this suggests Hartman's offensive ceiling in pro hockey is probably a bit limited, although he may have enough of it to make it past the basic 4th liner role.

CONCLUSION

If the Flames had one first round pick, I'd be hesitant to say they should take Ryan Hartman. He's got what I would characterize as a low ceiling but a fairly high floor. He'll probably be an NHLer because, outside of adding some muscle and growing a bit, he plays an NHL-style game already. Will he be a top-flight player? There's potential there, but he'd need to stop taking penalties and play more of an up-tempo offensive game.

For a team with three firsts, Hartman seems pretty tempting simply because he brings a lot of things that the Flames don't have right now. He's gritty and nasty and mean, but he can skate and score and back-check. He has experience in high-profile games and hasn't wilted under pressure, but he's also the type of player that is at his best when he's making life miserable for the other team's best players (and creating time and space and favourable match-ups for his team's skilled players).

Ideally, Hartman would become Gary Roberts. He probably doesn't have that level of offensive skill, nor is he a winger. But he's a two-way center who plays a Roberts-esque type of game and brings an agitating element that has been sorely lacking from the Calgary Flames for quite some time. He's a bit of a gamble in terms of his lower ceiling, but he should be a gamble worth taking, particularly given that the extra first round picks dilutes the risk a bit.

And I'll do a (poorly-formed) cartwheel if the Flames draft Hartman on June 30.

Flames First Round Targets

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Ryan Pike is a Calgary native and FlamesNation's managing editor. He's covered the Flames and the NHL since 2010. His work can also be found at The Hockey Writers and The Wrestling Observer.
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#1 RexLibris
June 26 2013, 11:34AM
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If the Flames use their #28 pick on Hartman it is likely because they see it as a 2nd round proxy.

Hartman seems similar in some ways to Dalton Thrower, a pain in the butt player that *might* develop into that playoff mule every team loves to have. *might*.

Using a 1st round pick on him would be a mistake, in my opinion. I would select someone with skill over this player type. It is easier to acquire depth players than it is skilled ones. Let another team develop the bottom sixers, and concentrate on creating a crucible of high-end talent. Then trade the excess for positional support players as needed.

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#2 Jeff Lebowski
June 26 2013, 09:53AM
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I really like Hartman. What gives me pause is, can Calgary get a similar player (perhaps not as offensive) in other ways (later in draft, FA etc).

Should they try to use this upcoming draft (especially 1st round) on guys with higher ceilings?

The ceilings of players is obviously so hard to project. I don't know if anyone saw the TSN special on the 2003 draft. It was interesting how guys like Parise were relatively overlooked.

I think it's the mental makeup of guys. In any field, it seems they people who rise to the top just want it more. The sandpaper in Hartman's game indicates to me he's that kind of guy.

Thrid line agitators who can play are very valuable (Torres).

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#3 danglesnipecelly
June 26 2013, 10:02AM
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Count me in on the cartwheels for Hartman! I must say I liked Craig Button's mock draft for the Flames. Lindholm at 6, Hartman at 22 and Santini at 28. (I might take a more offensive D at 28 and hope to scoop Santini with a 2nd round pick if we can acquire one)

Here's hoping he has a little insight from his bro...

I can't help but notice the multiple connections between the players we've been drafting. Team USA connection, US College connection, multiple sets of teammates. I like that some of these guys know each other and have played together...

Random fact, since I follow them on twitter I can tell you that Gaudreau, Gillies, Janko and Seiloff all listen to country music!

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#4 Kent Wilson
June 26 2013, 10:04AM
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By 28th in the draft, there probably aren't going to be many high ceiling guys left. Aside from maybe Petan, depending.

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#5 Burnward
June 26 2013, 10:06AM
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@Jeff Lebowski

Agreed.

If he was bigger and could make a Lucic-esque type impact...those guys are damn near impossible to find. However, his smaller frame gives me pause that his game will translate as well against men, but he's definitely a competitor.

I like the idea of top-end skill.

Give me Petan late in the first...might end up being the steal of the draft.

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#6 seve927
June 26 2013, 10:14AM
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danglesnipecelly wrote:

Count me in on the cartwheels for Hartman! I must say I liked Craig Button's mock draft for the Flames. Lindholm at 6, Hartman at 22 and Santini at 28. (I might take a more offensive D at 28 and hope to scoop Santini with a 2nd round pick if we can acquire one)

Here's hoping he has a little insight from his bro...

I can't help but notice the multiple connections between the players we've been drafting. Team USA connection, US College connection, multiple sets of teammates. I like that some of these guys know each other and have played together...

Random fact, since I follow them on twitter I can tell you that Gaudreau, Gillies, Janko and Seiloff all listen to country music!

Yep, I liked Button's draft too. I said a month or so ago that those were three guys I'd be hoping for, along with JT Compher. Adam Erne is another guy with some feistiness that I'd like to see.

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#7 McRib
June 26 2013, 10:18AM
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@danglesnipecelly

Did you hear what Jay Fester said after Craig Button's Mock Draft in the interview with Bob Mackenzie?? "Everyone wants to tell us who we are going to take".

Which makes me think that those picks are fairly unlikely, so don't be surprised if the Flames go off the board with a William Carrier or Tommy Vannelli with that 28th pick. Vannelli was probably better than Santini at the U18s for USA, especially when you consider he only joined the team last minute for that tournament.

Nic Petan or Adam Erne are locks for me at 22, if they are already off the board plug in a Morrissey/Pulock slipping or a Klimchuk. Calgary likes high character kids and everything I have heard from Pulock fits that billing, considering his draft hype has fallen it seems more likely Pulock is still around at 22.

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#8 McRib
June 26 2013, 10:20AM
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Honestly people out east love Ryan Hartman, I really don't see him being around at 28th or even 22nd, but would rather other people there anyway like Petan.

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#9 Kenta
June 26 2013, 10:22AM
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After enjoying a finals series with skilled physicality but no goons, back down to earth with a recommendation that makes little sense. A skilled pest is fine but we need top 6 forwards and top 4 defence men. A pick for an undersized, penalty prone forward with a high floor makes no sense.

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#10 jai kiran
June 26 2013, 10:25AM
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We need a player like this. But guys, he's 5'11. Gary Roberts is 6'1, Brandon Prust is 6'2, I think Raffi Torres is 6'3.

Wendel Clark was this size, and played like this: I think his career was shorter as a result. (He was great, though...)

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#11 Burnward
June 26 2013, 10:27AM
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@McRib

Thought that was the best quote of the show.

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#12 Demetric
June 26 2013, 10:34AM
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isn't Coburn Knight supposed to be similar to this, a gritty 3rd line center with some offensive upside?

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#13 McRib
June 26 2013, 10:48AM
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@Kent Wilson

At least for me everyone in this range has higher offensive potential, thus a higher ceiling. (Kerby Rychel, Morgan Klimchuk, William Carrier, Shea Theodore, Ryan Pulock, Josh Morrissey, JT Compher, Anthony Mantha, etc). Mind you I am not a big fan of Anthony Mantha, all he has is offense.

To Ryan Hartman's credit he is a safer bet than others in this range and is only a year or two away from being an everyday NHLer, but he is a second liner on a middle tier club at best. Calgary needs offense and with three picks we can afford to take a shot, Hartman is better suited to a Vancouver or Washington.

Morgan Klimchuk had 78 points on a horrid team and Hartman who has played in an extra season of junior only had 60 points.... How many points is Klimchuk going to have next year in his third season 90+?? Honestly most people are comparing Klimchuk to Eberle.. Where a Hartman is a much smaller Gary Roberts.. Give me Ebs please.

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#14 SmellOfVictory
June 26 2013, 10:48AM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

By 28th in the draft, there probably aren't going to be many high ceiling guys left. Aside from maybe Petan, depending.

I guess that depends what we characterize as high ceiling. There's a distinct possibility that, aside from Petan, someone like Erne or Klimchuk is there, both of whom allegedly have some form of top 6 upside (if lower-end top 6), and there should be at least one or two defenders with potential top 4 upside (Hagg, Mueller, Theodore, etc.).

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#15 Tommynotsohuge
June 26 2013, 10:52AM
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I have a feeling he will end up being an Alexander Burrows kind of a guy. I hope so. I would love to see him picked at 28th

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#16 the-wolf
June 26 2013, 10:53AM
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Completely unscientific, but I just get that gut feeling with Hartman that he'll not only play in the NHL, but eventually climb his way up into top 6 territory.

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#17 BurningSensation
June 26 2013, 10:57AM
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My concern with taking Hartman is that he is better suited to being a 2nd round pick than a 1st given his limited offense.

Sure we could use a dynamic pest, but those aren't guys you should typically be targetting in the first.

Personally, I (way) prefer; Petan, Klimchuk and even Shea Theodore. Easier to teach a player to play defense than offense.

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#18 McRib
June 26 2013, 10:57AM
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@Burnward

Oh it was great, its interesting because as most of you are aware Craig Button's brother Todd is our head scout. So Craig's list could be and most likely is a smoke screen from year to year.

Craig Button has had Sean Monahan going sixth all year but four days from the draft he puts Elias Lindholm in that slot and moves him up.... Hmmmmm wonder why?!?! It seems he moved Sven Bartschi up similarly two years ago (he had him ninth) and he had Mark Jankowski higher than anyone last year.

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#19 McRib
June 26 2013, 11:01AM
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@BurningSensation

Totally agree, also when you consider Morrissey or Pulock might fall both those players could score more at the next level as Hartman and they are Defenders, Haha.

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#20 the-wolf
June 26 2013, 11:02AM
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McRib wrote:

At least for me everyone in this range has higher offensive potential, thus a higher ceiling. (Kerby Rychel, Morgan Klimchuk, William Carrier, Shea Theodore, Ryan Pulock, Josh Morrissey, JT Compher, Anthony Mantha, etc). Mind you I am not a big fan of Anthony Mantha, all he has is offense.

To Ryan Hartman's credit he is a safer bet than others in this range and is only a year or two away from being an everyday NHLer, but he is a second liner on a middle tier club at best. Calgary needs offense and with three picks we can afford to take a shot, Hartman is better suited to a Vancouver or Washington.

Morgan Klimchuk had 78 points on a horrid team and Hartman who has played in an extra season of junior only had 60 points.... How many points is Klimchuk going to have next year in his third season 90+?? Honestly most people are comparing Klimchuk to Eberle.. Where a Hartman is a much smaller Gary Roberts.. Give me Ebs please.

I don't disagree, but Hartman strikes me as the kind of player who will make the perfect 3rd guy who really makes a top line click if he's with 2 more offensively pure guys. He buys time and space and has enough talent to put in the garbage. I can see him being converted to wing in the NHL. His size isn't ideal, but he'll probably hit 6'0" and play at 200lbs. Not huge, but enough.

People knocked Roberts as being too slight to play a power game in the NHL.

The key to Hartman will be not expecting too much too soon.

I'd take Zykov first though.

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#21 Halt
June 26 2013, 11:05AM
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McRib wrote:

At least for me everyone in this range has higher offensive potential, thus a higher ceiling. (Kerby Rychel, Morgan Klimchuk, William Carrier, Shea Theodore, Ryan Pulock, Josh Morrissey, JT Compher, Anthony Mantha, etc). Mind you I am not a big fan of Anthony Mantha, all he has is offense.

To Ryan Hartman's credit he is a safer bet than others in this range and is only a year or two away from being an everyday NHLer, but he is a second liner on a middle tier club at best. Calgary needs offense and with three picks we can afford to take a shot, Hartman is better suited to a Vancouver or Washington.

Morgan Klimchuk had 78 points on a horrid team and Hartman who has played in an extra season of junior only had 60 points.... How many points is Klimchuk going to have next year in his third season 90+?? Honestly most people are comparing Klimchuk to Eberle.. Where a Hartman is a much smaller Gary Roberts.. Give me Ebs please.

People say much the same thing about Theodore. Ton of offensive ability, huge liability defensively.

Agree with you about Hartman, for me his ceiling is too low to grab. The fact that he's one of the older players also worries me greatly.

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#22 McRib
June 26 2013, 11:12AM
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@the-wolf

I don't disagree as well, that he could become a Brad Marchand type who produces more than expected at the next level, complimentary of two more pure offensive guys. Problem is we are still looking for offensive guys to compliment... Sven Baertschi & Johnny Gaudreau are great and all but to think they are both guaranteed Top. Three players is a bit of a reach as of yet.

For me if no one else falls I would take a Petan or Klimchuk over Hartman in my sleep because they are both finishers!!

That said Hartman wouldn't be a bad pick I just think we aren't quite ready for a guy like him this stage of the rebuild and they are not impossible to come by anyway.

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#23 clyde
June 26 2013, 11:18AM
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BurningSensation wrote:

My concern with taking Hartman is that he is better suited to being a 2nd round pick than a 1st given his limited offense.

Sure we could use a dynamic pest, but those aren't guys you should typically be targetting in the first.

Personally, I (way) prefer; Petan, Klimchuk and even Shea Theodore. Easier to teach a player to play defense than offense.

The last sentence sums it up. Well put.

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#24 McRib
June 26 2013, 11:21AM
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@Halt

Shea Theodore has all of the same criticisms as Mike Green did in Junior, also with the same type of offensive upside....

To both of their credit when Mike Green joined Saskatoon as a 16 year old the Blades set an all time worst WHL record, Theodore was in a similar situation with Seattle. Where I think his defensive play suffered early on in WHL career because team had no clue of positioning, it seems to have gotten better this season, but come one 50 POINTS from the BLUELINE!! Future Power Play Quarterback Potential, I would roll the dice with Shea in a heartbeat!!!

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#25 the-wolf
June 26 2013, 11:27AM
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McRib wrote:

I don't disagree as well, that he could become a Brad Marchand type who produces more than expected at the next level, complimentary of two more pure offensive guys. Problem is we are still looking for offensive guys to compliment... Sven Baertschi & Johnny Gaudreau are great and all but to think they are both guaranteed Top. Three players is a bit of a reach as of yet.

For me if no one else falls I would take a Petan or Klimchuk over Hartman in my sleep because they are both finishers!!

That said Hartman wouldn't be a bad pick I just think we aren't quite ready for a guy like him this stage of the rebuild and they are not impossible to come by anyway.

I think Marchand is probably the best case comparison, for sure. More so than Roberts as I wouldn't describe Hartman as a traditional power forward.

I get what you're saying, but guys who can not only shut down other team's top players, but in turn produce offense against them are invaluable. Plus, Hartman is probaly 3-4 years away so I think the timing works.

So much depends on who falls.

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#26 Jeff Lebowski
June 26 2013, 11:40AM
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jai kiran wrote:

We need a player like this. But guys, he's 5'11. Gary Roberts is 6'1, Brandon Prust is 6'2, I think Raffi Torres is 6'3.

Wendel Clark was this size, and played like this: I think his career was shorter as a result. (He was great, though...)

Brandon Prust is not 6'2. I highly doubt he is even 6'0. I know websites list his height as over 6'0 but he is not. I've seen him at James Joyce (I hope they are alright).

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#27 schevvy
June 26 2013, 11:42AM
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I would much rather take Hartman at 28 over Fucale. BTW, if you want a worst-case scenario go read Patrick King's mock draft on Sportsnet. Spoiler: Flames take Fucale at 6.

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#28 BJ
June 26 2013, 11:42AM
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With the St louis first I would rather see (if we take a forward) Rychel Zykov or Erne. If he is there with the pit first then maybe take him but guys like Klimchuk and bowey and petan could be there at 28 as well.Ideally I would like to see Calgary deal a player for a second round pick in case Hartman or or any other guys in that range slip a bit. OR even take a flyer on Buchnevich. In this draft another pick or two couldnt hurt. Maybe we can shop Stempniak or someone to the habs for 33 or 36.

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#29 Jeff Lebowski
June 26 2013, 11:45AM
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the-wolf wrote:

I don't disagree, but Hartman strikes me as the kind of player who will make the perfect 3rd guy who really makes a top line click if he's with 2 more offensively pure guys. He buys time and space and has enough talent to put in the garbage. I can see him being converted to wing in the NHL. His size isn't ideal, but he'll probably hit 6'0" and play at 200lbs. Not huge, but enough.

People knocked Roberts as being too slight to play a power game in the NHL.

The key to Hartman will be not expecting too much too soon.

I'd take Zykov first though.

Yep, I could see that too. Riding shotgun for Sven? Also, given the public comments from Feaster, Hartman sounds exactly what they are looking to acquire.

I look at it like this though, would you trade a first round pick for Torres or Prust or any of those ilk? Is he better than those comparables? If he's a Burrows then yeah.

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#30 please cancel acct
June 26 2013, 11:50AM
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IMO there will be better options at 22 ,but would be fine with him at 28,depending on players standing at that position. Agree with those who project him as a second rounder

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#31 the-wolf
June 26 2013, 11:54AM
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Jeff Lebowski wrote:

Yep, I could see that too. Riding shotgun for Sven? Also, given the public comments from Feaster, Hartman sounds exactly what they are looking to acquire.

I look at it like this though, would you trade a first round pick for Torres or Prust or any of those ilk? Is he better than those comparables? If he's a Burrows then yeah.

That's the determination that needs to be made. Is he Marchand or Prust or somewhere (where, exactly?) in between?

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#32 the-wolf
June 26 2013, 11:56AM
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please cancel acct wrote:

IMO there will be better options at 22 ,but would be fine with him at 28,depending on players standing at that position. Agree with those who project him as a second rounder

Agreed, not at 22 and depending on who falls.

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#33 Baalzamon
June 26 2013, 12:10PM
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Hartman spent almost the entire season on RW IIRC. His center was Vince Trocheck.

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#34 P&P
June 26 2013, 12:36PM
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Even though Hartman might fit a current need, hopefully Flames stick with their ranking list and choose BPA with their 1st rounders, as their drafting philosophy has been in the past 2 years. If they somehow managed to get a 2nd round pick, Hartman could be a good choice. Choosing a player with a higher ceiling over a 'safe' but lower ceiling player with a 1st round pick sounds like a reasonable strategy.

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#35 McRib
June 26 2013, 12:39PM
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@Baalzamon

That's what worries me with Hartman he played with some very capable players and only came out with 60 points... Plymouth was as deep at forward as anyone this season in the entire CHL, they have ten forwards who are/will be drafted. Not hard to look good in that group. (Stefan Noesen, Tom Wilson, Rickard Rakell, Vince Trocheck, Mitchell Heard, Garrett Meurs, etc). Who did Klimchuk play with.... Chandler Stephenson for 1/2 the season and thats about it... If we are going to draft the player that played in the favorable situation, lets take the guy who had 120 points, Hahah.

Speaking of Plymouth, I still cannot get over Gianluca Curcuruto going in the 7th round last year, wish the Flames took him instead of Ryan Culkin.

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#36 Kmp
June 26 2013, 12:52PM
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Hartman plays just like Ryan Callahan, draft year stats are pretty similar too. No brainer at 28 IMO. Not sold on Monahan or Linholm at 6, would rather see them move it for an extra first or 2 if you could put together a deal with Columbus. Dallas has 10 and 29. Buffalo 8 and 16. Columbus has 14,19 and 27.

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#37 Big Ell
June 26 2013, 12:58PM
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schevvy wrote:

I would much rather take Hartman at 28 over Fucale. BTW, if you want a worst-case scenario go read Patrick King's mock draft on Sportsnet. Spoiler: Flames take Fucale at 6.

I don't follow Junior very closely but that has to be one of the most ridiculous mock drafts I have read. Nicushkin at 14 and we get the next Brent Krahn. Ridonkulous. I know next to nothing about Furcale but I will pour CC in my eyes if we take a goalie in the 1st round again.

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#38 Graham
June 26 2013, 01:02PM
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@KMP

I'm not sold on the Flames moving down from the sixth spot. We need quality not quantity at this point. I would much rather see them trade up from six, or combine the 2 late twenties to move up to 11 - 15....

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#39 loudogYYC
June 26 2013, 01:21PM
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Hartman in the 1st doesn't sound like a great idea. I say find a way to pick Erne or Mantha in the mid first, and trade 28 for 2 2nd rounders to MTL or SJS who both have 3 2nd round picks.

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#40 RexLibris
June 26 2013, 01:23PM
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schevvy wrote:

I would much rather take Hartman at 28 over Fucale. BTW, if you want a worst-case scenario go read Patrick King's mock draft on Sportsnet. Spoiler: Flames take Fucale at 6.

From the article: This could be the first big surprise of the draft with Fucale at No. 6. One aspect that emerged through many of their trade discussions at the deadline was their desire to find a top goaltending prospect. They were unsuccessful in acquiring one through trade, and it’s rather unlikely Fucale is available for their next pick at 22. Fucale is head and shoulders more talented than the other goalie prospects in the draft, and if he pans out the way many think he will, this pick won’t seem like a reach in the future.

That is hilarious. But are you upset because it insults the Flames, or because deep in your bones you fear it could come to pass?

;-)

Just kidding, I actually Fucale could be around at #22, and that there is a chance the Flames take him. Who knows what the draft board will look like by the time that 2nd pick comes around. I suspect they'd prefer a forward, but we'll have to wait and see, they've surprised us before.

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#41 Tenbrucelees
June 26 2013, 01:32PM
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This guy sounds like a Sutter draftee. No thanks.

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#42 schevvy
June 26 2013, 01:36PM
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@RexLibris

Honestly, I am slightly terrified that it happens. I highly, highly doubt it happens at 6 but even a glimmer of a chance terrifies me.

Unless Fucale is available in the 7th round the Flames better not take him. He played on the most stacked team since Windsor went back to back. That probably inflated his stats. So no. No

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#43 the-wolf
June 26 2013, 01:38PM
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Kidd, Krahn, Irving...'nuff said.

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#44 seve927
June 26 2013, 01:40PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Kidd, Krahn, Irving...'nuff said.

Agreed. We're due!

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#45 Trippinvdub
June 26 2013, 01:50PM
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I have been pumping Hartmans tires since we traded Iggy and Jbow, if we can get him with either the 22nd or 28th to compliment Monahan/Linholm I will be a very happy flames fan.

This is the type of player we have been missing for a long time, he is an old time hockey player the seems to strive in big games when the going gets tough, you want to make a splash in the playoffs? Its guys like this that push teams to the next level!

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#46 P&P
June 26 2013, 02:03PM
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@Graham & Kmp

Trading down to acquire additional first round pick(s) from Buffalo, CBJ or Dallas would not necessarily be as bad option as it might seem at first glance, given the inherent risk in any given pick and the many holes Flames need to fill in their prospect pool and roster. By acquiring more 1st rounders, not only do you increase the probability of drafting more nhl-quality players, but also lessen the risk of bust picks. Assuming a first round pick has an average probability of 63% of developing into nhl player, having 4 first round picks would mean roughly a 98%, 85% and 53% chance of drafting atleast 1, 2 or 3 nhl-quality players, respectively, whereas having only 2 1st round picks, probability of drafting atleast 1 future nhl'er would be 86% and for 2 players it would be 40%. Lots of if's and but's included, but trading down vs. trading up is a basis for an interesting debate atleast.

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#47 everton fc
June 26 2013, 02:40PM
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Similar #'s to Dorsett when he was in the Hat (I know, I'm pushing Dorsett again!) He seems like a Dorsett-type player. He doesn't have near the numbers (yet) Callahan put up in the OHL.

All the names mentioned... Prust... Callahan... None were first rounders.

Erne's bigger. Has great speed and a wicked shot. Apparently. But Hartman can play both centre and wing. More versatility, perhaps.

Haven't read a bad review about Erne or Hartman. Erne is a true power-forward, me thinks. Both interest me. Erne doesn't fight as much, but likes to hit. Hartman seems more likely to drop the gloves....

Both being "Yanks", they probably interest Weisbrod! Another guy who could fill this role - JC Lipon, who I think is bigger than the 5'9" you put him at in the post you had about him as a "Darkhorse". Can anyone confirm?

It'd be nice to have two of Erne/Hartman/Lipon on a future Flames roster. One can dream. I can see Erne putting up #'s, at the next level. And he's got some filling out to do.

(And I'd still take a punt on Jerome Verrier in the later rounds. Same type of player. He might/should be around after Round 5. Put up a lot of pount in the QMJHL this past season. Not to mention a fair share of majors)

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#49 RexLibris
June 26 2013, 03:59PM
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Ryan Pike wrote:

For the record, if Hartman is Flames property on June 30, I'll get somebody to record and place on YouTube a video of me doing a cartwheel in Vegas.

Okay, now I am officially hoping for this to happen.

Based on the statement above, this includes if the Flames can get him with an acquired 2nd rounder or even a 3rd.

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#50 Baalzamon
June 26 2013, 04:03PM
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@RexLibris

I absolutely shuddered when I saw that. But really, the only thing we know is that the Flames were looking for a goalie who could play NOW--and they got him (I guess) in Berra. Even if the team drafting Fucale (nottheflamesnottheflamesnottheflames) is extremely lucky, he won't even be ready for backup duty for 3 years. And that's if he ever is.

To me (and pretty much everyone in Calgary) taking Fucale AT ALL makes almost no sense whatsoever. Taking him at 6th would be absolute lunacy. Taking him 28th is somewhat sort-of almost close to being defensible (especially considering they might still be trying to justify the Iginla trade with a late-first home run).

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