Random Thoughts - Flames 2013 Draft

Kent Wilson
July 01 2013 10:50AM

 

 

Now that "the most important draft in organizational history" is over it's time to pick through the wreckage a bit...

- Although I half expected the Flames to deal at least one of their first rounders for some sort of return (or at least waste one on something stupid like a goalie), the team did good work in getting three 70+ point forwards. Sean Monahan was the natural choice at six, even though there are questions about his true offensive upside in the show. As we mentioned in his draft profile, Monahan was the 67's offense this year, but he was also very dependent on the PP to get his points, which is a pair of mixed signals. 

There's no question Monahan is NHL-sized already and has played in the toughest circumstances as a pivot in junior. He should more or less leap fully formed into the NHL down the road.

- On that note, I'm almost certain that the Flames are going want to sell hope this upcoming season, meaning they are going to push Monahan onto the parent roster to start the year. As relatively complete as the kid's game is already, that probably doesn't make sense from a hockey perspective - Monahan has yet to truly dominate junior in the Taylor Hall/Steven Stamkos sense, so there's no reason to assume he'd be able to make the jump and be an impact player right away. In addition, the Flames aren't going to win anything next year anyways, so burning a year of Monhahan's entry-level contract so he can play 3rd/4th line minutes while the team struggles is a waste.

Like many tweener kids, Monhahan would likely be best served as a 19-year finding his legs in the AHL to bridge the gap. Unfortunately, thanks to the arrangement between junior and pro hockey, he is ineligible to play in Abbotsford, so it's either Calgary or Ottawa for Sean next year. And unless he's, say, Gabriel Landeskog, Monahan should definitely go back to Ottawa.

- The 22nd pick, of course, is much more contentious. Emile Poirier was well down the list of most consensus scouting firms. Which isn't to say that other NHL teams didn't covet him, although it certainly suggests he could have been had later. Of course, the real issue (like the Jankowski move down the year prior when Teuvo Teravainen was still available) was the presence of a much higher ranked talent in Hunter Shinkaruk.

The Calgary kid and Medicine Hat Tiger was considered a top-10 talent by many heading into the season. He took a marginal step backwards, though, after scoring a mind-boggling 49 goals and 91 points in his draft-1 season. This past year, he "only" managed 37 goals and 86 points (and a much worse -13 rating), which, when combined with his less than ideal size (5'10, 180) seemed to scare a lot of teams off, including the Flames.

Still, Hunter's 177 points in his past 130 games was easily one of the best two season totals of any draft eligible junior player in 2013. Although it's somewhat worrisome to see a kid run in place, it's also indicative that he put together back-to-back 85+ point seasons.

Poirier, on the other hand, is much more flash-in-the-pan relative to Shinkaruk. The December, 1994 birthday winger has only played two seasons in the QMJHL so far (one fewer than you would expect of a soon-to-be 19 year old) and was only a 15-goal, 40-point player as a rookie in 2011-12.

His ascension up the depth chart on a bad Gatineau team was capped off by a playoffs that saw him score 10 points in 10 games. The steep slope of his improvement may be what convinced the Flames to go "off-board" at 22 to pick him. On top of having good size, good speed and high-end passing ability, Poirier also led his club in scoring by 16 points over second place Tomas Hyka (although Kyka only played 49 games).

So there's some things to like about the kid. I will go through his numbers in more detail this week to determine his team% and ES/PP splits.

The red flag here is how small of a sample we're talking about. Poirier came out of nowhere after being a just okay 40-point QMJHL rookie in his 17-18 year old season and the basis of his rise seems to be a very strong second half of a year and a 10-game playoff run. Relative to Shinkaruk, Poirier's body of work is much smaller and therefore much less proven. For example, Hunter scored 16 goals and 42 points in 2010-11 as a 16-17 year old, a year before Poirier even made major-junior. Keep in mind that the Quebec league tends to be a bit easier to score in as well.

We won't know for years if the Flames made the right choice in this instance. The guy they took had some things to like, but there's certainly some risk involved.

- Morgan Klimchuk was much less of a question mark choice at 28. The only guy to outscore Klimchuk on the Regina Pats was three years his senior. The next guy on the scoring list was a full 30-points back with just 45 points in 46 games. Klimchuk is not very big and most scouting reports say he'll need to up his strength and size to make it past junior, but nabbing a 36-goal, better than PPG guy at the end of the first round is decent work.

- After round 1, there isn't much to talk about. Feaster failed to nab any other early-to-mid picks so it's even more baffling that the organization decided to use their lone choice between 30-100 on man mountain Keegan Kanzig. The 6'7", 240+ pound defender, by all accounts, is a guy who can't really skate, can't handle the puck and has no offense to speak of. He was ranked in the 190's amongst North American skaters by Central Scouting. Corey Pronman didn't rank him in the top-100 either.

The only thing you can really say about Kanzig is he is huge, mean and can drop the gloves with anyone. Which is a description of Derek Boogaard and John Scott, but not of anyone who is actually useful at the NHL level. I woudn't even endorse using a 7th round pick on this type of player since they can generally be had via free agency or waivers quite easily, so wasting a top-90 pick on him is flat-out mystifying.

Organizationally, Chris Breen is comparable, except that he is 20-pounds lighter and doesn't tend to rack up the PIM's like Kanzig. Remember, Breen was signed as a free agent out of junior after being undrafted and, at 24 years old, has yet to play a single NHL game.

BTW - Jordan Subban and JC Lipon were both chosen AFTER Kanzig yesterday.

- Eric Roy is probably the only Flames post-first round pick with any hope of doing anything. As mentioned yesterday and in his darkhorse profile, the kid has a lot to learn in the defensive end, which is naturally a major concern for defenseman as they try to transition to the pro game. If someone can reach Roy and teach him how to play in his own end, however, he has the tools to make some noise. 

- Beyond that, the rest of the picks are typical 6th and 7th round long-bombs. We can't say much about them at this point and they probably aren't worth discussing until they have at least a draft+1 season under their belt.

- Overall, Calgary beefed up their collection of offensive prospects via the first round, which is good, but it doesn't look like they got much value beyond that this weekend, aside from maybe the Roy gamble. What's additionally surprising about the Kanzig and Poirier picks is that the team didn't attempt to trade down and beef up their number of selections in return. It's a good bet either guy could have been had a little later on givn their general standing amongst scouts (especially Kanzig), so it's odd the team wasn't able to move down a tad and one or two more 3rd/4th/5th rounders. Oh well.

- I'm also a bit disappointed the Flames weren't in on one of Cal Clutterbuck or Michael Frolik. Clutterbuck was had for Nino Niederreiter, so it's understandable that the Flames couldn't match return, but Frolik (a long time trade target of mine) went to Winnipeg for just a 3rd + 5th round picks. Frolik was had for Kanzig and Roy more or less.

He might never be a 20-goal scorer again, but Frolik is a young, useful bottom-6 possession/PK guy who would be cheap to sign and could firm up a team's forward depth for years to come. He certainly wouldn't be the difference maker for a rebuilding club like the Flames, but his addition would have been a small step in the right direction.

The good news is the Hawks gutted some of their bottom-6 depth (Bolland and Frolik trades) and signed Bickell to a bad deal this weekend, which weakens them and also means the Flames can't go out and sign Bickell to a bad deal themselves. Word is capable middle rotation winger Viktor Stalberg is also on the outs in Chicago and he would make a much more sensible target for the Flames to sign come July 5.

39d8109299a9795cb3b41a4e9b49d501
Former Nations Overlord. Current Fn contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#51 Rickymac
July 01 2013, 02:30PM
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I am quite pleased with the first 3 picks and Roy. I was initially hoping for Shinkaruk but after watching some video of Poirier and some other articles regarding him I think he is going to be an excellent player down the road. I am extremely disappointed that we did not draft Jordan Subban, Myles Bell and Greg Chase. I think these 3 players are going to all be solid contributors in the NHL down the road. I was hoping that the Flames would look a little closer to home. Good luck to all of the new Flames!

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#52 Flamesbrain
July 01 2013, 02:33PM
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Justin Azevedo wrote:

my new list:

  1. TJ Brodie
  2. Sven Baertschi
  3. Sean Monahan
  4. Corbin Knight
  5. Roman Horak
  6. John Gaudreau
  7. Morgan Klimchuk
  8. Emile Poirier
  9. Eric Roy
  10. Bill Arnold
  11. Max Reinhart 
  12. Mark Cundari
  13. Lance Bouma
  14. Markus Granlund
  15. Kenny Agostino

tyler wotherspoon, jon gillies, laurent brossoit and mark jankowski would be honourable mentions (or on the list if bouma, cundari, knight and brodie are considered "graduated").

As Corbin is now ranked 4th in your top 15 Flames prospects, than can we agree that trading the 4th round pick and then signing him as an RFA helps to make this 2013 draft better that what we believe they could have drafted with that same pick?

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#53 BurningSensation
July 01 2013, 02:34PM
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One item worth noting about the 'consensus' is that there was a considerable suggestion that Calgary would be taking Zach Fucale somewhere in the 1st, and that he was ranked in the top 20 by most scouts.

So on the one hand the 'consensus' is that we should have thrown a 1st at Fucale, meanwhile we know that goalies are pure sorcery and should not be drafted in the first.

I'm happy to eschew consensus if it means avoiding landmines like Fucale at #22.

I note too that Ryan Lambert gives the Flames draft a 'Loser' grade for taking Poirier over Shinkaruk. Because defying his expectations is all that is required for the Flames to be losers, the other picks at the draft be damned. What a tool.

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#54 Stockley
July 01 2013, 02:57PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

One item worth noting about the 'consensus' is that there was a considerable suggestion that Calgary would be taking Zach Fucale somewhere in the 1st, and that he was ranked in the top 20 by most scouts.

So on the one hand the 'consensus' is that we should have thrown a 1st at Fucale, meanwhile we know that goalies are pure sorcery and should not be drafted in the first.

I'm happy to eschew consensus if it means avoiding landmines like Fucale at #22.

I note too that Ryan Lambert gives the Flames draft a 'Loser' grade for taking Poirier over Shinkaruk. Because defying his expectations is all that is required for the Flames to be losers, the other picks at the draft be damned. What a tool.

Where there's smoke there's usually fire. A bunch of teams passed on Shinkaruk so obviously there is something about the boy teams don't like. If he does truly have attitude/ego issues he'll fit right in with Evil Fonzie and his Canucks. As for Ryan Lambert I sometimes wonder how much he believes what he writes and how much he's just posting crap for shock value and to garner hits. He knows how to stir the pot and get attention; whether you agree with him or not.

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#55 Rockmorton65
July 01 2013, 03:00PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

I also like;

- Panzer

- Heavy Metal (a thinly veiled 'Danzig' reference)

- Meat Bomb

The Apex Face Puncher?

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#56 Kevin R
July 01 2013, 03:07PM
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I've mellowed a bit on Poirier as well. I must admit I was really ticked at the time. I know Klimchuk isn't a bad pick but I cant help whether we would have been not better picking Hartman or Hagg at 28. Of course Chicago scoops Hartman, a big team already who knows how to go far in the playoffs, just made another investment in a future playoff run.

Now from what I hear, this lower cap next year & our cap space is a very small window seeing the cap is expected to go back up to 70 mill the following year. This Friday with Free Agency & trading is going to be critical on the 2nd half of this rebuild. I think everyone can agree that we added 4 pretty decent assets in our cupboards with Knight/Monohan/Poirier & Klimchuk. What should we have happen next. I am really really hoping there is something to Boston really talking about trading Seguin & Calgary being a big focal point of those talks. I think Boston wants to see what shakes out & how much $$$ they have & where they need to spend it, especially with Horton moving on. When I heard of the speculation that Backlund/Gaudreau & our 2014 2nd is the price of Seguin, I gulped but man does it make sense for both teams. Finally, we are talking assets we never thought we could afford to part with being in play to get a bonafide #1 centre. I'm sure the Bruins know what they would have in Gaudreau & to add a solid #3C at 2.0mill per year instead of 5.75mill for Seguin has sanity all over it. If the draft was Christmas, Friday Free Agency Day is going to be like my birthday.

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#57 T&A4Flames
July 01 2013, 03:09PM
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Ryan Pike wrote:

Ladies and gentleman, Keegan... "THE CRUSHINATOR"... Kanzig!

I like his name backwards...... Giznak

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#58 the forgotten man
July 01 2013, 03:37PM
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Pretty simple... Can't teach a guy how to score/snipe.

Can teach a guy how to be a 2nd, 3rd or 4th liner.

Still say that Nischushkin and Shinaruk were the two best pure snipers/scores available to the Flames at their draft slot and might actually be entertaining to watch go figure...guy like Monahan can be found via trade or UFA if necessary...snipers not so much.

This draft will keep the Flames where they have been for the past 10 years...8-10 th in western conference.

Lather, rinse, repeat. Nothing to get too excited about or to spend hard earned money on this bunch as it stands.

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#59 Baalzamon
July 01 2013, 03:44PM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

I like his name backwards...... Giznak

Gold.

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#60 Dr. Philosophy
July 01 2013, 03:54PM
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Meat Bomb FTW

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#61 Flamesbrain
July 01 2013, 03:59PM
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Do you think that Hunter's father Roger, being the Hitmens dentist scared them off as they didn't want a Darryl/Brett equivilent?

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#62 Derzie
July 01 2013, 04:31PM
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Nobody KNOWS if this is a good draft or a bad draft for the Flames. None of these players have shown us anything in the Saddledome nor will they for a long time. That said, every player in the draft list has SOME upside or they wouldn't be on anybody's radar. Why people are mad is because Feaster and his crew don't act as we expect them to given our situation. Picking Monahan at 6? Off to a good start. OK, time for 22. We all have 20 names (including a Calgary kid who has dropped into or lap) we can shout at the screen as Feaster walks to the podium. The fact that he picks one that NO ONE would have picked without a dart makes people furious. It may be a great pick or a terrible pick. Who knows? The fact that he 'goes off the board' when he said he would not is strike 1. Klimchuck is back in the 'expected' range again. After that? A surprisingly eloquent refridgerator who will never see pro hockey (strike 2), a guy that Weisbrod probably saw on a visit to watch his other NCAA pig-in-a-poke Janko (strike 3), the obligatory Peruvian High Schooler (wild pitch)that no one can find out anything about. And you wonder why people are mad? Drunken sailors get lucky once and a while too but it doesn't make it alright. F*** Feaster and his band of clowns.

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#63 vowswithin
July 01 2013, 04:45PM
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What? Jake Gardiner for Mike Cammalleri straight up? Well he is kind of unproven Toronto but I guess we can swing that.....

WOOOOOOOooooo.

(This may or may not be a fictional story based on Calgary getting something back to even the Phaneuf trade)

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#64 chillout
July 01 2013, 04:50PM
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@Derzie

wow impressive, I like how you make a lot of assumptions on who was scouted and who wasn't, also just assume that you know when certain players would be picked. Are you some sort of scouting god we have not heard of? Give us your wisdom oh mighty looker at other people's rankings....

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#65 Burnward
July 01 2013, 04:52PM
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Anyone know where these Seguin rumours are coming from right now? The Backlund,Gaudreau + ones...

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#66 chillout
July 01 2013, 05:03PM
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@Burnward

That's probably what people are expecting the price to be since it was supposedly our 6th +johnny and maybe something else can't remember what the rumor was exactly, for seguin

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#67 Burnward
July 01 2013, 05:10PM
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@chillout

If that is actually on the table...I think we have to leap at it.

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#68 BurningSensation
July 01 2013, 05:16PM
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Burnward wrote:

If that is actually on the table...I think we have to leap at it.

Two things;

- I have my sincere doubts it was actually on the table (I suspect that they wanted out #6 pick as part of any package)

- There are two big question marks with Seguin; 1. Is the injury to his hip going to be chronic?, and, 2. is the kid a 'partier' with off-ice issues that detract from his on-ice performance?

I like Seguin a lot, but if we put together a big package to land him we need to be certain that those two concerns I mentioned aren't serious issues.

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#69 If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin
July 01 2013, 05:21PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

You literally went from saying 'nobody knows how good these picks will be' to cursing Feaster and his scouts in one large spit flecked paragraph.

If bi-polar disorder could diagnosed via internet you would be the poster child.

HAHAHAHA!!!! My sentiments exactly.

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#70 If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin
July 01 2013, 05:25PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

Guys like Monohan absolutely CANNOT be found via trade or free agency. A 6'2" 200lb pivot with 1st line playmaking ability on a rookie contract - please list all the similar players that have moved in free agency or via trade in the last 10 years.

The answer is 'zero'. Potential or actual 1st line centers do not get moved. Ever. (Ok, Joe Thornton, but I literally can't think of another).

I liked Nichushkin (a ton) but I completely understand why the Flames preferred Monohan to him. Indeed, for a top 5 talent (by 'consensus') to fall all the way to #10, there is usually a reason (like, his hockey sense is poor).

In Shinkaruk's case, he has a number of knocks against him; declined in stats from year to year, only plays in the offensive zone, slightly built (and under-tall) for a center - may be a wing as a pro, etc. He didn't just fall, he plummetted. 20 teams passed on him, Columbus and Calgary did so TWICE.

Personally, I am pretty jacked for our picks. Monohan will eventually be the #1 pivot we've needed forever (since Joe-Who?), Poirier has the tools to be a #1 power-winger, and Klimchuk could be that all-round swiss-army-knife offensive force to flank them.

In short, I think we may have drafted our future first line. Nice.

Couldn`t agree more. Regarding Porier, this is what Mckeens had to say (I posted in another post as well):

Led Gatineau in goals, assists, and points during a breakout second season - and was an even bigger driving force in the playoffs (10-6-4-10, 39 shots) .. the Montreal native was selected 38th overall in the 2011 QMJHL draft .. SCOUTING REPORT .. a bustling sparkplug with skill, poise, and smarts .. powered by an exceptional engine and great tenacity - sticks with plays .. suffocating 200- foot presence - all over the ice .. skating can progress in areas .. needs to work on improving his lateral skating - and smooth out a stride that is slightly stiff and features an odd lunging shuffle .. feet stumble and move like flippers, altering angles unpredictably .. despite his mechanics however, he boasts a lethal acceleration gear .. shoots off the mark boosted by a rapid second and thirdstep burst that gets him to top speed rapidly - and is sustained by a steady, determined stride pattern .. dials up instant intensity .. opportunistic - and with a flair for getting breakaways .. creates opportunities with his hustle, game-reading, and startup quickness - and can capitalize thanks to fine stickhandling abilities and some sweet in-close finishing moves .. manages the puck intelligently, demonstrating excellent positional awareness and execution skills .. assesses risk judiciously - refrains from attempting low-percentage plays that might sacrifice possession .. adept at one-timers - packs a heavy, accurate slapshot .. productive and diligent player away from the puck - provides steady and stout lane coverage .. goes hard to the net - and to the heart of traffic - taking directs routes .. proficient at busting the zone, closing gaps, and rushing an opponent into premature actions .. excels as a defensive leftwing lock for linemates - igniting release plays exploiting his solid passing skills and his ability to slow the game down and process alternatives .. a well-rounded prospect and heart-and-soul type who will go to the wall.

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#71 If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin
July 01 2013, 05:27PM
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That last part, in addition to his offensive upside, is what gets me really excited: ...a well-rounded prospect and heart-and-soul type who will go to the wall.

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#72 KetchupKid
July 01 2013, 05:28PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

One item worth noting about the 'consensus' is that there was a considerable suggestion that Calgary would be taking Zach Fucale somewhere in the 1st, and that he was ranked in the top 20 by most scouts.

So on the one hand the 'consensus' is that we should have thrown a 1st at Fucale, meanwhile we know that goalies are pure sorcery and should not be drafted in the first.

I'm happy to eschew consensus if it means avoiding landmines like Fucale at #22.

I note too that Ryan Lambert gives the Flames draft a 'Loser' grade for taking Poirier over Shinkaruk. Because defying his expectations is all that is required for the Flames to be losers, the other picks at the draft be damned. What a tool.

This is a bit harsh man. Surely someone can disagree with you without incurring name calling.

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#73 bookofloob
July 01 2013, 05:43PM
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Stalberg plz

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#74 BurningSensation
July 01 2013, 05:46PM
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KetchupKid wrote:

This is a bit harsh man. Surely someone can disagree with you without incurring name calling.

Lambert's loathing for Flame's management has descended into self parody.

It is literally a shock to read anythng he writes that does not contain some billious cheap shot purely for the sake of taking one (this happened last week, I almost fell over).

I suppose though, that calling him a 'tool' was pretty harsh. I should have said his writing is 'hack-tastic' and just left the personal attack out.

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#75 Burnward
July 01 2013, 05:56PM
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@BurningSensation

Yeah, it seems like an internet rumour that has picked up a life of its own.

Agreed he has question marks, but that kid can flat out play. Had no goal luck in the playoffs, but sure impressed me with his hard work and compete, nonetheless.

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#76 If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin
July 01 2013, 06:04PM
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Burnward wrote:

To those who are still questioning why we picked Poirier, please check out the highlights of him on the Flames site.

This guy is scary fast, can finish and wants to score goals.

I am extremely excited and have a feeling we got a hell of a player.

You know what the freaky thing is? Of those twenty or so goals they show, look at the number of goals that were the direct result of him singlehandedly creating a turnover, and then either flying by or barreling through d-men to score a goal. Despite his size, the kid has the speed of smaller speedsters.

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#77 prendrefeu
July 01 2013, 06:06PM
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Has anyone else thought "Theo Fleury" when Poirier was drafted?

I mean, here we are - well, many of us - taking a dump on the Poirier draft because of how he was off the board but on this very site Theo was ranked the best Flame of all time... and where was he in the draft, again? 1st round? 2nd round? Oh, that's right: 8th round, 166th Overall. He ended up taking a dump on pretty much everyone drafted above him.

Poirier has potential. Get over the Shink.

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#78 Burnward
July 01 2013, 06:07PM
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@If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin

His first couple strides are incredible. He hits top speed in no time.

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#79 BurningSensation
July 01 2013, 06:14PM
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i've seen two different spellings of his name; 'Porier' and Poirier'. The kid's jersey has the second spelling on it in all the highlights, but I keep seeing the first spelling everywhere.

Does anyone have any insight?

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#80 T&A4Flames
July 01 2013, 06:15PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

Lambert's loathing for Flame's management has descended into self parody.

It is literally a shock to read anythng he writes that does not contain some billious cheap shot purely for the sake of taking one (this happened last week, I almost fell over).

I suppose though, that calling him a 'tool' was pretty harsh. I should have said his writing is 'hack-tastic' and just left the personal attack out.

"Hack-tastic". Haha. Awesome, luv it.

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#81 Burnward
July 01 2013, 06:16PM
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@BurningSensation

People on the internet can't spell? I think that's the best insight I can give you.

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#82 TheoForever
July 01 2013, 06:25PM
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Let’s start with that Lambert is a terrible writer with zero knowledge of any kind and pure hate towards Flame management.

As for the couple of people wishing for Nikushin over Monahan and Shinkaruk over Poirier, you guys are so wrong.

As the draft was unfolding I was going Shinkaruk, Shinkaruk and when Feaster didn’t pick him I went –‘WTF’. But then started to read and it became clear why they didn’t pick him. Declining point totals, me first attitude, small and good in offensive zone only. He has all the red flags of a possible bust, if he isn’t’ good enough to be top 6 guy. Add to that he wasn’t a Flames fan, well it all spells out a perfect Canuck.

On the other hand we have the frenchy that should fit well with the French coaching stuff. Heart and soul type of a guy, big, fast, plays in all 3 zones, etc. He looks like a late bloomer. Montreal would have jumped on him at 25th spot, great choice.

Flames number one need is at center and Monahan was the best available at the position. He will be pumped to play in a Canadian city and will never be a problem; being a team guy and leader that plays in every zone. As for the Russian, we don’t need him holding the team at a gun point, which would have happened sooner or later.

Looks like, Flames are trying to build is a Boston style team where sum of the parts is greater than any one individual player. Perhaps, a lesson from Iggy who at the end became greater than the team itself.

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#83 Burnward
July 01 2013, 06:41PM
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@TheoForever

Or, Lambert's just trolling. Probably that.

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#84 Captain Ron
July 01 2013, 07:19PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

Lambert's loathing for Flame's management has descended into self parody.

It is literally a shock to read anythng he writes that does not contain some billious cheap shot purely for the sake of taking one (this happened last week, I almost fell over).

I suppose though, that calling him a 'tool' was pretty harsh. I should have said his writing is 'hack-tastic' and just left the personal attack out.

Name calling aside (but one could argue deserved) I completely agree with your take on Lambert. He's easily my least favorite writer on FN. His rants about Feaster this and Feaster that are often misguided and self serving. As far as writers go he is a hack.

I enjoy reading your comments far more than I do his writing. Even if I disagree with you.

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#85 Baalzamon
July 01 2013, 07:36PM
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Those highlight packages of Poirier are certainly impressive. But that's what highlights are supposed to be about (then again, if scouting was based entirely on what you could find on youtube, Poirier probably would have been picked ahead of Monahan).

The guy's got some great tools. But what about the lowlights? What's he like on a regular shift? How does he do under offensive pressure? Is he a puck possessor, or only a finisher?

We really have to watch this guy over the next few years to find out. But I can honestly say that I'm looking forward to seeing more of those breakaway dangles.

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#86 BurningSensation
July 01 2013, 07:39PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

Those highlight packages of Poirier are certainly impressive. But that's what highlights are supposed to be about (then again, if scouting was based entirely on what you could find on youtube, Poirier probably would have been picked ahead of Monahan).

The guy's got some great tools. But what about the lowlights? What's he like on a regular shift? How does he do under offensive pressure? Is he a puck possessor, or only a finisher?

We really have to watch this guy over the next few years to find out. But I can honestly say that I'm looking forward to seeing more of those breakaway dangles.

I totally agree that you can't scout by highlight reel package and that we will have to wait and see, but those dangles and the speed he was making them at were definitely reassuring.

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#87 T&A4Flames
July 01 2013, 07:52PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

Those highlight packages of Poirier are certainly impressive. But that's what highlights are supposed to be about (then again, if scouting was based entirely on what you could find on youtube, Poirier probably would have been picked ahead of Monahan).

The guy's got some great tools. But what about the lowlights? What's he like on a regular shift? How does he do under offensive pressure? Is he a puck possessor, or only a finisher?

We really have to watch this guy over the next few years to find out. But I can honestly say that I'm looking forward to seeing more of those breakaway dangles.

Watching those highlights, 2 things, aside from his speed, stuck out to me. First, he is a turn over machine, in a good way, Datsyukian like. A lot of those highlight goals began on him causing a turn over. 2nd, was his ability to dangle at top speed. When a guy has speed and the mind and hands to match, that is impressive.

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#88 BurningSensation
July 01 2013, 07:53PM
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Captain Ron wrote:

Name calling aside (but one could argue deserved) I completely agree with your take on Lambert. He's easily my least favorite writer on FN. His rants about Feaster this and Feaster that are often misguided and self serving. As far as writers go he is a hack.

I enjoy reading your comments far more than I do his writing. Even if I disagree with you.

Thanks!

I enjoy a good debate, especially about the Flames. Many of the fellow commenters here that I look forward to reading are those I know I will likely disagree with.

And yeah, I should say again that I really shouldn't have called him a tool.

But Lambert, damn but he makes me want to put on my FIGHTING TROUSERS!

http://youtu.be/0iRTB-FTMdk

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#89 Frank
July 01 2013, 08:06PM
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Rockmorton65 wrote:

The Apex Face Puncher?

I can almost guarantee that his nickname will (possibly already is) "Ziginator".

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#90 BurningSensation
July 01 2013, 08:26PM
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Austin wrote:

Once the draft finished I wasn't very impressed, but as I thought about it, what were we honestly expecting in the later rounds of the draft. Taking Monahan was the smart move. I was outraged at the Poirier pick but in my mind it isn't as off the board as Jankowski. After reading up a but on him he's starting to grow on me. Klimchuk is also another safe pick, but again it completely baffles me how they had Klimchuk at #13 on their board. The one pick that I really didn't like was Keegan Kanzig. Makes no sense in my mind. Better options in the 3rd round. Eric Roy was a good pick for the 5th round. In the sixth round you have a slim shot at drafting an NHLer and even less of a chance in the 7th. So the only thing people should have reason to be upset is about the Kanzig pick. Personally I think outside of the first round this is Feaster's weakest draft. But he also had the least to work with outside of the first round so I'm not going to be too judgemental.

I agree that taking Monahan was definitely the smart move. I just hope that Nichushkin doesn't turn out to be Jagr2.

Poirier wasn't really as 'off the board' as people might think at first blush. If Montreal had him on their board at 25 (as has been reported), then it is increasingly likely it is the independent scouts that may not have him ranked correctly.

Jankowski was also not as 'off the board' as you might think at first blush. First because we know that Detroit was seriously considering him with their pick near the end of the 1st, and secondly because we traded down to get him and another asset. Feaster recognized that his board was different than others and acted to make the most of that difference (in a similar vein, Detroit did the same thing with Anthony Mantha this year).

Klimchuk was #13 on the Flames board, but that board didn't include the top 4 picks which they (correctly) assumed would all be gone before they started picking. That puts Klimchuk in the 15-20 range.

That all said, the Keegan Kanzig pick puzzles me as well. For a scouting staff that has been quite good at avoiding coke-machines it was strange to see them throw a 3rd rnd pick at one. I have to hope that it is because there is a genuine hockey reason to think the kid may actually be a player.

Lastly, I really, really like the Russian kid they took in the last round. Outside of the top three picks, he's the one guy I think may have an actual NHL career.

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#91 If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin
July 01 2013, 08:34PM
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suba steve wrote:

Anyone else find it ironic that many FN posters and at least one FN writer have pulled out the old "Feaster and the Flames scouts think they are the smartest ones at the draft" thing. Obviously, those that make this statement would be the smartest, if they could only get into that room!

Thinking you are the smartest is fine, and I actually prefer that in a management group and scouting dept. at the NHL draft. Shows confidence in your hard work. Telling everyone that you would be smarter then that group...well, that's just the opposite of smart.

Agree with you hundred percent, man. Team scouts and management should be given the benefit of the doubt unless they have repeatedly proven themselves incompetent (like the late Sutter regime). It`s too soon to grade the current regime, but at least, year after year, they seem to be producing NHL-level talent -especially from the later rounds.

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#92 Austin
July 01 2013, 08:34PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

I agree that taking Monahan was definitely the smart move. I just hope that Nichushkin doesn't turn out to be Jagr2.

Poirier wasn't really as 'off the board' as people might think at first blush. If Montreal had him on their board at 25 (as has been reported), then it is increasingly likely it is the independent scouts that may not have him ranked correctly.

Jankowski was also not as 'off the board' as you might think at first blush. First because we know that Detroit was seriously considering him with their pick near the end of the 1st, and secondly because we traded down to get him and another asset. Feaster recognized that his board was different than others and acted to make the most of that difference (in a similar vein, Detroit did the same thing with Anthony Mantha this year).

Klimchuk was #13 on the Flames board, but that board didn't include the top 4 picks which they (correctly) assumed would all be gone before they started picking. That puts Klimchuk in the 15-20 range.

That all said, the Keegan Kanzig pick puzzles me as well. For a scouting staff that has been quite good at avoiding coke-machines it was strange to see them throw a 3rd rnd pick at one. I have to hope that it is because there is a genuine hockey reason to think the kid may actually be a player.

Lastly, I really, really like the Russian kid they took in the last round. Outside of the top three picks, he's the one guy I think may have an actual NHL career.

I don't think Nichuskin has that type of talent, otherwise teams would've been more high on him. Could he be like a bigger faster stronger version of Semin? Sure, but he comes with risk too. Hopefully Monahan turns into a 1st liner. In regards to Poirier, I was referring to the conscensus draft pick in that range I.e. Shinkaruk, Hartman, Hagg, etc. and the Flames obviously had the top guys on their board because they plan for every scenario especially this close to the top.

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#93 MangoTanker
July 01 2013, 08:40PM
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Poirier has some tremendous hands in tight, and he looks like he's got some great wheels. I am excited about this guy's offensive upside, very pumped to see him at the dev. camp and then at the Penticton Tourney.

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#94 Austin
July 01 2013, 08:43PM
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MangoTanker wrote:

Poirier has some tremendous hands in tight, and he looks like he's got some great wheels. I am excited about this guy's offensive upside, very pumped to see him at the dev. camp and then at the Penticton Tourney.

When is the pentixton tournament ?

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#95 Frank
July 01 2013, 08:44PM
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As far as Kanzig goes, he's 6'5", not 6'7". Quite a difference. Unless they're using his height in skates?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdCMxBla3-o

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#96 BurningSensation
July 01 2013, 08:44PM
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Austin wrote:

I don't think Nichuskin has that type of talent, otherwise teams would've been more high on him. Could he be like a bigger faster stronger version of Semin? Sure, but he comes with risk too. Hopefully Monahan turns into a 1st liner. In regards to Poirier, I was referring to the conscensus draft pick in that range I.e. Shinkaruk, Hartman, Hagg, etc. and the Flames obviously had the top guys on their board because they plan for every scenario especially this close to the top.

Given what i saw of Nichushkin his talent level reminds me a ton of Rick Nash, a big, strong power winger with 'fear my wingspan' moves and a rocket shot. He could be a real beauty.

I think the concerns with him were more related to his nationality and how that would affect his playing in the NHL, and future contract negotiations, than his actual talent.

That said, there was also a 'sameness' to how the kid scores his goals (rush down the wing, beat defender wide with speed/power, cut to the net, dangle, score), so it might be that his hockey sense isn't highly developed.

I would have been happy with him as our selection given the tool kit the kid has, but I am absolutely thrilled that we actually took a big playmaking pivot to build around.

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#97 loudogYYC
July 01 2013, 09:00PM
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The Poirier pick, as much as it baffled me when I saw it, wasn't that bad. It was still a bit of a leap, but watching his highlights reminded me of the good parts of Alex Burrow's game (don't shoot me, please). He's fast and tenacious and seems to know what to do with his hands, unlike another QMJHL player Calgary drafted years ago, Matt Lombardi.

The pick that threw me for a goddam loop was Keegan Kanzig at 67 overall. 6'5 - 241 lbs. sounds great, but the kid can barely move and he admitted himself that he and his family didn't expect to be picked so soon. GM's were trading down like crazy as soon as the 2nd round started and that's what Feaster should've done.

Arrogant management is a very dangerous thing, and we have that, again.

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#98 If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin
July 01 2013, 09:07PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

Given what i saw of Nichushkin his talent level reminds me a ton of Rick Nash, a big, strong power winger with 'fear my wingspan' moves and a rocket shot. He could be a real beauty.

I think the concerns with him were more related to his nationality and how that would affect his playing in the NHL, and future contract negotiations, than his actual talent.

That said, there was also a 'sameness' to how the kid scores his goals (rush down the wing, beat defender wide with speed/power, cut to the net, dangle, score), so it might be that his hockey sense isn't highly developed.

I would have been happy with him as our selection given the tool kit the kid has, but I am absolutely thrilled that we actually took a big playmaking pivot to build around.

And what if Lindholm was still available? Haha, I only remark so because you were a huge Lindholm booster.

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#99 Baalzamon
July 01 2013, 09:09PM
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@loudogYYC

At least this time around it's arrogant by committee.

I totally agree with BS re: the Nash/Nichushkin comparison. Nash is who I instantly think of whenever I see the big Russian. I do, however, wonder at Nichushkin's ultimate upside given his results so far.

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#100 BurningSensation
July 01 2013, 09:27PM
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If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin wrote:

And what if Lindholm was still available? Haha, I only remark so because you were a huge Lindholm booster.

I LOVE Lindholm's game (he's on the Zetterberg/Bergeron tree, and high up it).

My list of guys I hoped the Flames would draft was;

MacKinnon (barring a miracle trade was never going to happen) Barkov (Florida made a fantastic choice) Drouin (best offensive player in the draft, period) Lindholm Monahan Nichushkin (especially if he was secretly capable of playing center)

Monahan has a lower basement IMO than Lindholm, but he also checks off more of the intangibles than Lindholm; size, position (Lindholm saw lots of time on the wing which muddied the waters), birth certificate (it matters, even if it shouldn't, see all the outrage at not taking Calgary born Shinkaruk), ready sooner (Lindholm will stay overseas for at least one more year), etc.

Carolina is getting one heck of a player in Lindholm. I'm curious if they will convert him to LW as the Canes are already stacked at pivot.

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