Flames Re-sign McGrattan

Kent Wilson
July 04 2013 05:36PM

 

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For two years apparently. Because GRITCHART.

 

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Former Nations Overlord. Current Fn contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#51 Parallex
July 04 2013, 07:05PM
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Sigh...

Pro: It's McGrattan and as the orginator of the Dancing Bear nickname I can take misplaced pride in it's continued use (FYI: Epic picture) Con: Goons are Useless.

Pro: Goons being useless at least it's a mistake most of the league is willing to make. Con: Above league minimum... huh?

Con: A two year deal for a guy whose primary job entails blows to the head seems stupid. Pro: ... I got nothin'

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#52 BurningSensation
July 04 2013, 07:12PM
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The G wrote:

LOL, this is hilarious. Calgarypuck thinks this is the best signing ever and flamesnation thinks this is awful. To be honest, the truth is likely somewhere in between, and if he is truly that terrible, you can waive him and send him to the minors.

I have no problems with bringing him in to protect the kids. Best quote from Baertschi re: Mcgrattan:

He came over to me and said, "You can do whatever you want out there. As soon as someone jumps you, I'm going to go out there and kill them."

I love the quote, if there is a purpose to having a guy like McGrattan around it's so he can say things like that.

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#53 Zkman
July 04 2013, 07:14PM
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Why?.

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#54 Danglesnipecelly
July 04 2013, 07:14PM
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sincity1976 wrote:

I don't normally like contracts to goons. But I am fine with this one.

One, watching heavy weights duke it out is exciting. This team isn't going to be all that exciting over the next couple of seasons. So why not?

Two, the team did play with an increased level of energy after acquiring him.

Three, with all the kids on the ice having a bit of protection (perceived or real) will help with their confidence.

Four, most players will tell you that having this type of player on your roster DOES make a difference. In a random team game sometimes we have to acknowledge that the numbers don't tell the entire story. If the players feel better having him it is probably a good thing.

Agree with this. I do think he's good for the team....in the short term anyway. Face puncher or not, a little bit of crazy is always a good thing IMO.

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#55 RKD
July 04 2013, 07:22PM
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We might not like the signing but when the new Flames were introduced and Feaster was speaking about O'Brien and adding guys with personality because last season it was a "dead room" and a "dead bench" I thought that spoke volumes that they guys in the dressing room didn't even show up.

McGrattan might be useless but Feaster wants guys that hate to lose, I think McGrattan, O'Brien, and maybe Galiardi to some extent have that. Not sure about Jones though.

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#56 Uppies
July 04 2013, 07:32PM
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Sorry guys but anyone that hates this signing should quit covering hockey. Anyone who has played the game knows having a guy like Big Ern on the team allows everyone else to play their game. And with the youth we are going to ice this season, there has never been a more important time for a guy like him. Quit thinking that everything in sports can be determined by advanced stats and realize that intangibles and team chemistry are a huge part of it.

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#57 piscera.infada
July 04 2013, 07:39PM
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@RKD

Re: "dead room"/"dead bench"... I agree entirely. I know that was a big sticking point for Wideman as well towards the middle or the season/trade deadline. I remember a couple of games when he was actively yelling at guys on the bench telling them to get going.

Guys that want to be here and play hard are great for young players to come up around. That should be what our team strives for, regardless of if talent or wins are there. In our rebuild I don't want a bunch of entitled players (*ahem* Tanguay) infecting our youth with bad habits.

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#59 BJ
July 04 2013, 07:42PM
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Not really a big deal either way. On the downside he takes a roster spot that can be given to a younger player.... on the bight side he could just be waived and sent down if necessary... not a bad move for overall depth... protect some of the young guys.

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#60 Captain Ron
July 04 2013, 07:45PM
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Uppies wrote:

Sorry guys but anyone that hates this signing should quit covering hockey. Anyone who has played the game knows having a guy like Big Ern on the team allows everyone else to play their game. And with the youth we are going to ice this season, there has never been a more important time for a guy like him. Quit thinking that everything in sports can be determined by advanced stats and realize that intangibles and team chemistry are a huge part of it.

I agree with you 100%. Ask Teemu Selanne how much better he felt having Tie Domi around when he was playing in Winnipeg early in his career.

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#61 MoFugger21
July 04 2013, 07:49PM
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Edit: Double post

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#62 RexLibris
July 04 2013, 07:49PM
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Hey Kent,

I agree that it is the thought process in this decision that is the most troubling for fans. It is the same thought process that had them draft Kanvig in the 3rd round.

Seems like Feaster has a somewhat out-of-date perspective of the league.

-----------

On the Horcoff move...

The fact that MacTavish was able to trade Horcoff when players like Gilbert, Grabovski and others were being bought out is a good sign, in my opinion. It works for both parties, with neither side trying to fleece the other.

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#63 MoFugger21
July 04 2013, 07:50PM
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If the 4th line is only going to play less than 4 minutes a game, what does it hurt to have a guy like McGrattan playing those minutes? The last thing the Flames need is to have their young guys (Knight, Monohan, etc) playing 4th line minutes, so they gotta fill those spots with someone. I like it!

(Edit: I'm apparently having issues posting...)

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#64 Funkyjaman
July 04 2013, 08:01PM
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@ Kent

Do you really think in the two years that Grats is here we will be in the playoffs? Or in a lot of close games? So again is it really anything to get bent out of shape about? Don't think so. Good for the team for the short term.

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#65 Uppies
July 04 2013, 08:01PM
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@Kent Wilson

Heres the proof I can offer you. I have played on plenty of teams that had enforcers and some that did not. Having a "heavy" on the roster led to more team success every single time. Not only did they make every single other player feel a foot taller they always seemed to have the best attitudes and were usually the ones that brought the boys together off the ice as well.

The teams that didn't have this type of guy always got taken advantage of. Young and skilled players were always looking over their shoulders worrying about who was going to smash them, and not concentrating on putting the puck in the net. So guys like myself would usually have to step in and stick up for them. Although I didn't mind doing it, that wasn't my job and I'm sure the coach would rather I didn't.

I have no idea what involvement you've had in the game. But for me, this is the way it was as soon as I graduated from minor hockey.

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#66 RexLibris
July 04 2013, 08:02PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Can you prove any of your anecdotes or assertions? Can you show that goons actually protect the kids or "allows players to play their games"? Because in looking for some sort of effect to buttress these claims, I have never, ever found any.

Do you notice that goons never really play in the third period when a game is close?

Do you notice goons almost never play in the playoffs?

I don't need "advanced stats" for any of this. I just need evidence period. I've looked at this from every possible angle. So have countless others. There's no discernible effect on wins, points, injury levels.

So then Feaster's plan is that the Flames won't be in close games in the 3rd....or the playoffs....

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#67 Clyde
July 04 2013, 08:04PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Can you prove any of your anecdotes or assertions? Can you show that goons actually protect the kids or "allows players to play their games"? Because in looking for some sort of effect to buttress these claims, I have never, ever found any.

Do you notice that goons never really play in the third period when a game is close?

Do you notice goons almost never play in the playoffs?

I don't need "advanced stats" for any of this. I just need evidence period. I've looked at this from every possible angle. So have countless others. There's no discernible effect on wins, points, injury levels.

http://www.hockey-psychology.com/2010/07/enforcers-in-hockey/

Keep in mind that this is only from players who play the game.

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#68 chillout
July 04 2013, 08:04PM
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I agree that it is good for the short term. How did players like Gretzky do when they had their protection with them compared to when they didn't? Maybe 99 is a bad example I have no idea, but if having him stapled to the bench makes the players feel better then that is actually a positive for the team. You would be amazed at what a positive outlook can do for a team or an athlete.

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#69 Uppies
July 04 2013, 08:09PM
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@Kent Wilson

Oh and your statement about them not playing in the 3rd of a close gamenshows just how much you let stats cloud your judgement. It's not how much ice time they get, it's the fact that they are on the bench and if you do something stupid they are just a tap on the shoulder away from getting involved in the game.

You should ask some of the 80's flames how important a guy like Tim Hunter was.

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#70 ChinookArch
July 04 2013, 08:23PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

From a personal perspective, Good for McGrattan...he's battled personal issues and seems to be back on track. Also seems like a good dude.

From a hockey perspective...sigh.

I can get behind this.

At this point of the Flames rebuild, I don't mind having McGrattan around. In general, put me in the everyone should be good at hockey camp, regardless of their role.

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#71 Veggie Dog
July 04 2013, 08:23PM
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Uppies wrote:

Heres the proof I can offer you. I have played on plenty of teams that had enforcers and some that did not. Having a "heavy" on the roster led to more team success every single time. Not only did they make every single other player feel a foot taller they always seemed to have the best attitudes and were usually the ones that brought the boys together off the ice as well.

The teams that didn't have this type of guy always got taken advantage of. Young and skilled players were always looking over their shoulders worrying about who was going to smash them, and not concentrating on putting the puck in the net. So guys like myself would usually have to step in and stick up for them. Although I didn't mind doing it, that wasn't my job and I'm sure the coach would rather I didn't.

I have no idea what involvement you've had in the game. But for me, this is the way it was as soon as I graduated from minor hockey.

Who are the goons on Pitt, Chicago, LA? Boston has one maybe.

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#72 TheoForever
July 04 2013, 08:26PM
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@ Uppies

Good post and 100% accurate. Pencil pushers that don't play sports where intimidation is a factor cannot understand the role of a fighter.

I like what Feaster is doing. A team without a heartbeat cannot bring fans into the building. This new version may loose but one can get behind a team of local guys that are hard working and not afraid to hit. You have to sell something during the rebuild.

BTW. Poirier over Shinkaruk - great move!

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#73 clyde
July 04 2013, 08:27PM
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http://www.infoplease.com/spot/hockeyfighting1.html Another example. This is coming from the guys out there. They value these type of players a great deal. I am not a fan of staged fights for the sake of fighting alone but Mcgratten does more than that. He brings emotion and will always stick up for his team. John Scott single handedly ended all of Boston's previous nonsense against Buffalo this year. Watch Shawn Thornton go about his job with Boston. I do understand hockey fans who don't like or understand this part of the game though.

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#74 BurningSensation
July 04 2013, 08:27PM
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Veggie Dog wrote:

Who are the goons on Pitt, Chicago, LA? Boston has one maybe.

Engelland, Bickell, Clifford, Chara, Lucic.

The best value is if you can find a guy who can fight AND play. They are gold.

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#75 clyde
July 04 2013, 08:30PM
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Veggie Dog wrote:

Who are the goons on Pitt, Chicago, LA? Boston has one maybe.

Pitt - Engeland, Macintyre, Cook, Chi - Bollig, Carcillo LA - Clifford Boston - Thornton, Mcquaid

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#76 Veggie Dog
July 04 2013, 08:30PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

Engelland, Bickell, Clifford, Chara, Lucic.

The best value is if you can find a guy who can fight AND play. They are gold.

Chara and Lucic don't fit the bill of goon. They are good to great players who are big and fight from time to time. The other guys less so, but probably more than McGrattan right?

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#77 Parallex
July 04 2013, 08:33PM
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Uppies wrote:

Oh and your statement about them not playing in the 3rd of a close gamenshows just how much you let stats cloud your judgement. It's not how much ice time they get, it's the fact that they are on the bench and if you do something stupid they are just a tap on the shoulder away from getting involved in the game.

You should ask some of the 80's flames how important a guy like Tim Hunter was.

I note that you refused to make any comment to the fact that goons mostly don't even dress in the playoffs.

Okey then, let's assume for a second that you're right (I don't think you are but we'll ignore that) can you at least demonstrate that having a Goon on the bench produces a positive win differential. Most Goons don't dress every game so surely if the effect they have on the bench is so dramatic you can tabulate some sort of league-wide dressed v. non-dressed win differential?

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#78 Veggie Dog
July 04 2013, 08:34PM
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@Veggie Dog

Engelland 13:55 a game, Bickell 12:48 and 23 points, Clifford 10:36 and 14 points, Chara and Lucic much more. All of these guys played nearly every game for their teams.

McGrattan 7 minutes, 3 points.

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#79 jeremywilhelm
July 04 2013, 08:36PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

Engelland, Bickell, Clifford, Chara, Lucic.

The best value is if you can find a guy who can fight AND play. They are gold.

Those guys can play hockey, they aren't enforcers.

McGrattan cannot play hockey. Waste of money and icetime.

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#80 clyde
July 04 2013, 08:37PM
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Veggie Dog wrote:

Chara and Lucic don't fit the bill of goon. They are good to great players who are big and fight from time to time. The other guys less so, but probably more than McGrattan right?

You said that these teams maybe had a total of one player who played the goon role. 2 of us came up with a partial list and there are more for each team. There are more.

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#81 jeremywilhelm
July 04 2013, 08:38PM
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@clyde

no, you didn't list a single goon.

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#82 Veggie Dog
July 04 2013, 08:39PM
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clyde wrote:

You said that these teams maybe had a total of one player who played the goon role. 2 of us came up with a partial list and there are more for each team. There are more.

I said "Who are the goons?" Not name one tough guy, who also plays hockey reasonably well. Take a look up there if you don't believe me.

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#83 clyde
July 04 2013, 08:39PM
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Parallex wrote:

I note that you refused to make any comment to the fact that goons mostly don't even dress in the playoffs.

Okey then, let's assume for a second that you're right (I don't think you are but we'll ignore that) can you at least demonstrate that having a Goon on the bench produces a positive win differential. Most Goons don't dress every game so surely if the effect they have on the bench is so dramatic you can tabulate some sort of league-wide dressed v. non-dressed win differential?

Shawn Thornton dresses for every Boston game and does not play in the last 10 minutes of close games. His team does well.

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#84 BurningSensation
July 04 2013, 08:40PM
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jeremywilhelm wrote:

Those guys can play hockey, they aren't enforcers.

McGrattan cannot play hockey. Waste of money and icetime.

Ok, so here's the thing, if you are playing against the Bruins and Lucic decides to take some liberties with your skill guys you have a couple of choices, respond by turning the other cheek (and praying for some powerplays - essentially the Vancouver/Detroit method), or by rolling out someone who can stand up to Lucic without getting murdered in front of 20,000 people.

McGrattan is a nuclear deterrent. Yes, I would vastly prefer he actually be able to play the game (and in a perfect world we draft an Eric Lindros clone in the near future so we can have an elite forward who is also a nuclear deterrent), but absent another option, I'm ok with McGrattan in the limited role.

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#85 clyde
July 04 2013, 08:41PM
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Veggie Dog wrote:

I said "Who are the goons?" Not name one tough guy, who also plays hockey reasonably well. Take a look up there if you don't believe me.

Brandon Bollig of the Stanley Cup champions. Still doesn't have an NHL goal but yet dressed in the finals.

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#86 Uppies
July 04 2013, 08:41PM
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Veggie Dog wrote:

Who are the goons on Pitt, Chicago, LA? Boston has one maybe.

Chi- ever heard of Brandon Bollig? LA. Nolan and Clifford are both big boys that like to drop the mitts Bos is lucky to have 2 of the toughest guys in the league that can also play in Lucic and Chara. Pitt - Engelland??

Do you watch hockey?

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#87 jeremywilhelm
July 04 2013, 08:42PM
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@BurningSensation

Lucic isn't gonna fight McGrattan, he'll skate a circle around him and score a couple goals.

Whats so Nuclear about that?

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#88 clyde
July 04 2013, 08:42PM
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jeremywilhelm wrote:

no, you didn't list a single goon.

Bollig isn't a goon? He hasn't scored a goal in 2 years.

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#89 cunning_linguist
July 04 2013, 08:43PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

At least we have a mentor for Keenan Kanzig.

Hahahahahaha

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#90 Veggie Dog
July 04 2013, 08:45PM
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@Uppies

Jesus guys, I am talking about dedicated goons. Chara and Lucic are not that, all other listed are reasonably good.

They may have one in Bollig, but I only watched CHI in the playoffs really, where he wasn't a large presence. (5 games)

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#91 jeremywilhelm
July 04 2013, 08:45PM
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@Uppies

Bollig played 2 of 6 games for a total of 20 minutes, 0 shots on goal, 4 giveaways.

He brought absolutely nothing to table. The Hawks lost both games he played in.

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#92 Veggie Dog
July 04 2013, 08:45PM
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@clyde

Bollig hadn't been listed at that point. He fits the bill certainly though.

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#93 clyde
July 04 2013, 08:46PM
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jeremywilhelm wrote:

Lucic isn't gonna fight McGrattan, he'll skate a circle around him and score a couple goals.

Whats so Nuclear about that?

Lucic was a pussycat versus Buffalo this year with only a goal and an assist in 4 games with a -2 rating. Before John Scott, he ran that team out of the rink.

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#94 jeremywilhelm
July 04 2013, 08:46PM
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@clyde

See above.

He was a useless passenger on that team and did nothing to help them win. In fact, I believe he lost the first or second game for them on a terrible give away by him.

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#95 jeremywilhelm
July 04 2013, 08:48PM
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@clyde

You are hilarious. I would like you to find out how many shifts Scott played against Lucic, I am gonna guess almost none. some deterant.

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#96 clyde
July 04 2013, 08:48PM
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Veggie Dog wrote:

Bollig hadn't been listed at that point. He fits the bill certainly though.

I listed him and Carcillo in my first post.

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#97 jeremywilhelm
July 04 2013, 08:50PM
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@clyde

Carcillo played, I think, 1 game in the entire playoffs. Useless.

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#98 clyde
July 04 2013, 08:50PM
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jeremywilhelm wrote:

You are hilarious. I would like you to find out how many shifts Scott played against Lucic, I am gonna guess almost none. some deterant.

Sometimes just being there is deterrant enough. Perhaps out of respect for Thornton he dialed it down to help avoid Thornton having to take another beating like the first one.

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#99 Justin Azevedo
July 04 2013, 08:50PM
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since there seems to be some dissension between the "you never played teh gamez!!!1!1!!" crowd and the blogging crowd, let me break it down:

at every level of hockey in which I played at, there was no one on the team who's purpose was only to goon it up. everyone i ever played with was at least good enough to play at the level they did - otherwise, it would've been snip snip.

maybe it's just me, but I never changed my style of game because of who was on the other team. sure, there might've been some 6'6 hulk on the other team but that didn't stop me from trying to level the other team's best player or what have you.

guys are going to do what they're going to do on the ice, regardless of who's on the other team. it doesn't matter if he's a "deterrent" (he isn't) if he's hurting the team in every other way.

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#100 clyde
July 04 2013, 08:51PM
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jeremywilhelm wrote:

Carcillo played, I think, 1 game in the entire playoffs. Useless.

If every guy I list on the Stanley Cup champions is so useless then why are they on the team? Why do they play at all?

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