A Look Ahead (and Back) To Flames Prospect Camp

Ryan Pike
August 14 2013 08:36AM

 

 

In a mere three short weeks, after a seemingly endless summer break, Flames hockey will return. Well, sort of. All indications – including the CBA – are pointing to Flames rookie camp opening on September 3, most likely featuring the usual mix of unsigned junior draft picks and players on entry-level contracts.

The looming beginning of camp provides an opportunity to take a look at who's likely going to be in action, as well as provide a comparison to who made up the camp's roster when Jay Feaster began his tenure with the Flames.

WHO'S GONNA BE THERE?

Well, roughly 85% of Calgary's prospects will be there – the unsigned junior players and anybody on an entry-level deal.

For forwards, there's some NHL experience in the form of Sven Baertschi, Roman Horak, Ben Hanowski and Max Reinhart. There's also all three of Calgary's first rounders from 2013 – Sean Monahan, Emile Poirier and Morgan Klimchuk. Rounding out the forward group are Markus Granlund, Josh Jooris, Corban Knight, Michael Ferland, Coda Gordon, David Eddy, Turner Elson and Ryan Howse. Positionally, the team's a bit weak on the right side (Hanowski, Eddy, Elson), but every other spot features some interesting projects.

On the back-end, there's some depth. Maybe a lot of it. John Ramage, Patrick Sieloff and Tyler Wotherspoon have all been to the World Juniors – Ramage and Sieloff have medals. There's also recent draft picks Ryan Culkin, Brett Kulak and Keegan Kanzig, as well as free agent signings Chad Billins and James Martin. If this is most of Abbotsford's defensive group for 2013-14, the Heat will do just fine.

In goal, the three men likely headed into camp are Switzerland's Reto Berra, Finland's Joni Ortio and Canada's Laurent Brossoit. Three guys, all of different ages and from different countries and leagues, each who haven't really played much – if any – North American pro.

WHO'S NOT GONNA BE THERE?

The college kids, as they (a) have to pay their own way as per NCAA regulations and (b) can't really miss school, won't be there. As such, there will be no appearances by Johnny Gaudreau, Bill Arnold, Jon Gillies, Mark Jankowski, Tim Harrison, Matt Deblouw or Kenny Agostino.

And based on the fact that the KHL season begins in late August, most likely Rushan Rafikov won't be in town, either.

HOW DOES THIS COMPARE TO 2010?

Way, way back in the fall of 2010, Jay Feaster was merely an assistant GM, newly minted into his corner office in the 'Dome. Working with Darryl Sutter, Feaster was merely months away from inheriting the big chair. 2010's rookie camp roster is a good indication of what Feaster has had to work with in terms of the prospect base.

Deep breaths, everyone...

Forwards: John Armstrong, Mikael Backlund, Hugo Carpentier, Gaelan Patterson, Max Reinhart, Mitch Wahl, Carter Bancks, Spencer Bennett, Lance Bouma, Michael Ferland, Ryley Grantham, Logan MacMillan, Bryan Cameron, Patrick Holland, Ryan Howse and Greg Nemisz.

The guys considered the top prospects out of that group were Backlund, Reinhart, Wahl, Bouma, Howse and Nemisz.

Defense: Chris Breen, T.J. Brodie, Matt Clarke (try-out), Joey Leach, Josh Meyers (AHL), John Negrin, Giffen Nyren (try-out) and Keith Seabrook

Brodie and Negrin were considered deent level prospects, while Keith Seabrook showed up on a few lists.

Goalies: Leland Irving, Matt Keetley and Cam Lanigan (try-out)

The forward group is, to be blunt, shaky. Backlund is an NHL player, while Bouma is almost a regular and Reinhart is getting there. Beyond that, there's not much, nor did the players that disappeared from this roster in the coming years yield much in terms of assets.

The Flames did get the rights to Karri Ramo from Montreal in a trade that involved Patrick Holland, so that's something. But Armstrong, Carpentier, Patterson, Bennett, Grantham, MacMillan, Wahl and Cameron all washed out of the Flames organization in ignominious fashion. Howse is struggling and may not get beyond the ECHL/AHL-fringe level. Nemisz gets the benefit of the doubt due to his injury last year, but he's in tough with all the high-end college guys turning pro. He's reaching the end of his days in the organization unless he blows the doors off in the AHL this year.

The defensive group isn't much better. Brodie's a very good NHLer. Breen could be a perfectly fine 6/7 body very soon. The rest of the bodies are filler. And the goalies? Three guys, two of which were Flames draft picks, who combined for 14 NHL games total.

Looking at the 2013 rookies in light of the 2010 group, it's a bit staggering how much things have improved. Bear in mind we have the benefit of hindsight to judge the 2010 group, but there does seem to be a lot more depth and diversity to the current group. Rather than draft big dudes over and over, or sign guys that put up numbers in their 20-year-old junior season, the Flames have brought in lot of different players from different areas and with varying skill sets. Of course, Feaster and co. also have the benefit of three straight seasons outside of the playoffs plus a big trade deadline sell-off. 

CONCLUSION

There are three weeks until hockey comes back. While the Flames may not be all sunshine and gravy in 2013-14, there's hope on the horizon, as the players most likely coming to prospect camp this year are more diverse, more American and most likely better than those that came to camp in 2010.

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Ryan Pike is a Calgary native and FlamesNation's managing editor. He's covered the Flames and the NHL since 2010. His work can also be found at The Hockey Writers and The Wrestling Observer.
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#2 piscera.infada
August 14 2013, 08:54AM
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@Ryan Pike

Oh it's circled, but for different reasons prior to this article.

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#3 coachedpotatoe
August 14 2013, 09:02AM
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What I find interesting about this article is that it suggests that Feaster and his staff have actually made significant progress in the 21/2 years of being in charge. He did have to overcome a lot of major hurdles; convincing himself and upper management(owners & KK) that change was needed, getting out of cap space prison ( major reason for the trade with Buffalo as it was not a hockey deal), convincing people for the need of change of culture and hockey leadership ( trading Iggy and the power Iggy had in his contract)and the list goes on. Hopefully the organization has learnt from it's mistakes and future rookie camps will continue to bring about excitement. This will be a good start as will be the prospects tournie. There are a few other days in the calendar that excite me as well; day after the 9th regular season game(will Monahan still be here), trade deadline( who will be gone and what we have gotten in return; this will tell a lot about the rebuild), and finally the end of the NCAA season (these prospects hold the key to how quickly the rebuild works)

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#4 SmellOfVictory
August 14 2013, 09:14AM
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piscera.infada wrote:

Oh it's circled, but for different reasons prior to this article.

WOO SEX PARTY AT PISCERA'S HOUSE

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#5 Kent Wilson
August 14 2013, 10:16AM
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Im a bit less enthused about the Heat's current blueline to tell you the truth. Cundari and Breen are probably a competent top pair, but Wotherspoon, Ramage, Martin and maybe one of Culkin and Sieloff has a lot of question marks.

Related, I don't think either Culkin or Sieloff should turn pro this year. Not sure what the upside of that would be.

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#6 jeremywilhelm
August 14 2013, 10:21AM
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I may be in Calgary that week, if anyone wants some company at camp.

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#7 SmellOfVictory
August 14 2013, 10:36AM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Im a bit less enthused about the Heat's current blueline to tell you the truth. Cundari and Breen are probably a competent top pair, but Wotherspoon, Ramage, Martin and maybe one of Culkin and Sieloff has a lot of question marks.

Related, I don't think either Culkin or Sieloff should turn pro this year. Not sure what the upside of that would be.

I think Wotherspoon and Ramage should be fine. Wotherspoon appeared to be a central cog for a very good defence in Portland, and Ramage is old balls in prospect terms, as well as being a focal point for his college team. I'm not particularly bullish on Ramage in terms of NHL potential, but I think he and Wotherspoon will both adapt quite well to the AHL.

Sieloff definitely should go back to Jr from everything I've heard; Culkin could go either way, I guess, but I imagine he'd be okay at least on the bottom pairing in Abby.

I guess the big thing is that you're not getting a ton of offence from the back end outside of Cundari, unless Culkin does adapt more quickly to the AHL than expected (assuming he plays there).

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#8 jeremywilhelm
August 14 2013, 10:39AM
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WTH? Who trashed my reply?

Witch hunt, commence!

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#9 Kent Wilson
August 14 2013, 10:41AM
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@SmellOfVictory

Yeah those are fair assessments, but until kids actually perform in the AHL I'm skeptical (outside of blue chippers).

Ramage could be fine, but he could also turn out to be Brady Lamb, for instance.

And as you say, pretty much zero offense back there. Especially if Cundari makes the Flames.

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#10 Parallex
August 14 2013, 11:15AM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Yeah those are fair assessments, but until kids actually perform in the AHL I'm skeptical (outside of blue chippers).

Ramage could be fine, but he could also turn out to be Brady Lamb, for instance.

And as you say, pretty much zero offense back there. Especially if Cundari makes the Flames.

Don't forget about Billins... wasn't he an AHL All-Star last year? Unless the Flames decide to roll with 8 D out of camp then if Cundari makes the Flames it means that Derek Smith is likely in Abbotsford so either way the heat ought to have someone good.

Cundari, Breen, Billins strikes me as a good top half of the D roster, I think Wortherspoon & Ramage should be fine (hopefully more then fine).

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#11 Kent Wilson
August 14 2013, 11:47AM
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@Parallex

Ahh that's right. Okay, so a bit of offense then.

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#12 Parallex
August 14 2013, 01:27PM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

What I find interesting about this article is that it suggests that Feaster and his staff have actually made significant progress in the 21/2 years of being in charge. He did have to overcome a lot of major hurdles; convincing himself and upper management(owners & KK) that change was needed, getting out of cap space prison ( major reason for the trade with Buffalo as it was not a hockey deal), convincing people for the need of change of culture and hockey leadership ( trading Iggy and the power Iggy had in his contract)and the list goes on. Hopefully the organization has learnt from it's mistakes and future rookie camps will continue to bring about excitement. This will be a good start as will be the prospects tournie. There are a few other days in the calendar that excite me as well; day after the 9th regular season game(will Monahan still be here), trade deadline( who will be gone and what we have gotten in return; this will tell a lot about the rebuild), and finally the end of the NCAA season (these prospects hold the key to how quickly the rebuild works)

Meh, I don't think this trade deadline will say all that much about anything... we'll just be trading the leftovers (with the main course being last year).

But yes I'll be watching the end of the NCAA season as I think Gaudreau holds the key to how long and painful the rebuild will be (No offense to Arnold and Agostino). If we've found the St. Louis 2.0 in Gaudreau then this rebuild will go a whole lot quicker.

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#13 coachedpotatoe
August 14 2013, 01:35PM
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Parallex wrote:

Meh, I don't think this trade deadline will say all that much about anything... we'll just be trading the leftovers (with the main course being last year).

But yes I'll be watching the end of the NCAA season as I think Gaudreau holds the key to how long and painful the rebuild will be (No offense to Arnold and Agostino). If we've found the St. Louis 2.0 in Gaudreau then this rebuild will go a whole lot quicker.

The trade deadline will matter if the UFA's have had a good season and if someone feels they are close to the cup, many teams overpay if they think they have a chance(we did a couple of times between 2006-2009). The other reason I think that it is important is because it will create space for the kids form the NCAA and those from the CHL to get a taste of the NHL as long as the Flames in the trades don't just acquire cannon fodder. When the UFA's are moved then we will also get to see the kids in the NHL roles increase. It's not for me just the assets but the evolution of the rebuild that makes the trade deadline important.

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#14 Arik
August 14 2013, 02:49PM
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@Kent Wilson

I've seen a fair amount of Ramage. He's perfectly acceptable...as an upperclassman in the NCAA. Barring a major improvement next year, I doubt he'll ever be an NHL regular.

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#15 Ice_Hawk
August 14 2013, 05:31PM
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You said "Positionally, the team's a bit weak on the right side (Hanowski, Eddy, Elson), but every other spot features some interesting projects."

Emile Poirier plays right wing too. I know he is listed as a left wing in a lot of places including the QHJHL website but he plays right wing in Gatineau...they had him on the left wing to start one game the WJC dev camp in Lake Placid last week, but moved him back to the right after just a few shifts.

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#16 Ice_hawk
August 14 2013, 05:33PM
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@Ice_Hawk

*QMJHL*

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#17 If Only HIs Name Was Olli Postandin
August 14 2013, 09:12PM
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Ice_Hawk wrote:

You said "Positionally, the team's a bit weak on the right side (Hanowski, Eddy, Elson), but every other spot features some interesting projects."

Emile Poirier plays right wing too. I know he is listed as a left wing in a lot of places including the QHJHL website but he plays right wing in Gatineau...they had him on the left wing to start one game the WJC dev camp in Lake Placid last week, but moved him back to the right after just a few shifts.

Yep. And I thought Poirier was the best RW on that team. Absolutely stifling two-way presence.

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#18 acg5151
August 15 2013, 03:38AM
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Not too impressed with the goalie situation. I think Reto Berra has got the best shot at the AHL starting position but we'll see.

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#19 bcflame
August 18 2013, 06:57PM
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Looking forward to sept. 5, as I live in penticton. Oilers and flames prospects is game 1!!!!

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