Defending Jay Feaster

Christian Roatis
August 06 2013 08:30AM

When Jay Feaster officially replaced Darryl Sutter as the General Manager of the Calgary Flames in the December of 2010, a collective sigh of relief echoed through Calgary. After all, Sutter's dubious moves were jeopardizing the already down ward spiralling and aging Flames team - one no trade clause at a time.

That feeling of relief, was then quickly substituted by a (possibly pre-mature) sense of optimism. After all, Feaster was at the helm of the Tampa Bay Lightning when they beat out the Flames for the Stanley Cup in '04. What many people didn't know is that Feaster inherited most of the cup winning core. Richards, Lecavalier, Khabibulin, St. Louis and many others were already there when Feaster assumed the commanding role. Yes, he augmented the key pieces with a few additions (namely Daryl Sydor and Ruslan Fedotenko) that were imperative in the Lightning's run to the Stanley Cup Final, but the point is most of the heavy lifting had been done prior to his arrival.

So all the praise and hoopla he earned following the Cup win wasn't all that warranted.

One word I used to describe him when he was named the Interim GM here in Calgary: overrated. Besides his minimal involvement in crafting that one championship team in Tampa, he also carried with him an abysmal drafting record with the Bolts. Excluding the Steven Stamkos pick for obvious reasons, only 4 players drafted under Feaster went on to play over 150 NHL games - none of them becoming more than role/replacement players once reaching the NHL. He did draft Karri Ramo though, so let's hope he hit that one out of the park.

Nonetheless, optimism ran high in Calgary that Jay Feaster would be the man to right the ship and take the Flames to the promised land.

House on Fire

Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case. When Feaster was promoted to the GM role, he was faced with two problems: An unreasonable pressure o win and an aging, sub par, over paid roster. He had a truck load of no-trade clauses to deal and barely any cap space to operate with.

If Feater tried to look to the prospect system for help, he'd be met by only Greg Nemisz, Tim Erixon and Leland Irving. Everything was pretty bleak. He slowly began to cleanse the organization of these trouble spots and mend the tears that Darryl Sutter's madness had created. He also had to do this with the intention of staying competitive and making the playoffs - which has proved to be an impossible task.

Slowly, the prospect system has been rebuilt and cap flexibility has been restored. Yet, a portion of the fan base is still unhappy. Patience has seemingly run out and people want a change. But why? What has Feaster done to merit a pink slip? As my colleague here at FlamesNation Ryan Pike once wisely said, "Feaster inherited a house on fire, put it out and is now taking heat because the house is slightly charred." I couldn't agree more.

All Feaster has done in Calgary is clean up the mess that Sutter left behind and only now is beginning to put his own stamp on the club. My opinion is probably in the minority when I say this but I think Feaster has done an admirable job considering the circumstances.

The Feaster Resume

You may not agree with me, but when you look at the facts, most of what Feaster as done during his time in Calgary has benefited the club. Have a look for yourself:


Trades:

Note: The players acquired by the Flames will be first and both bolded and italicized

Trade:

Date:

Verdict:

Freddy Modin for 2011 7th round pick (#193-Colin Blackwell)

February 28, 2011

Not the best trade as Modin was plagued by injury and only ended up playing 4 games for Calgary. But considering what they gave up, not a big deal.

Roman Horak,

2011 2nd round pick (#45-Markus Granlund),

2011 2nd round pick (#57-Tyler Wotherspoon) for Tim Erixon,

2011 5th round pick (#133-Shane McColgan)

June 1, 2011

After being handcuffed by Erixon's refusal to sign with Calgary, Feaster managed to get excellent value from the New York Rangers. While Erixon still has the potential to be a stud defensemen, Calgary got 3 (very good) prospects in return. Considering neither Erixon nor McColgan are with the Rangers anymore, I'd say Calgary wins this trade.

Chris Butler and

 Paul Byron for Ales Kotalik

 Robyn Regehr

2012 2nd round pick (#44 - Jake McCabe)

June 25, 2011

I don't really want to talk about this. Feaster got fleeced, plain and simple.

Jordan Henry for Keith Seabrook

July 9, 2011

AHLer for AHLer. No real winner or loser here, although Henry did put in good minutes for the Heat during his time there.

Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond for a 2012 5th round draft pick (#135 - Graham Black)

 

Stupid move and Black has put up back to back 50 point seasons in the WHL. This could come back and bite Calgary in the butt. We'll see.

Lee Stempniak for Daymond Langkow

August 29, 2011

Langkow was coming off that gruesome neck injury and was in the twilight of his career anyway. Stempniak is a big part of this Flames team right now and has turned in good value for the Flames. Win for Calgary.

Blair Jones for Brendan Mikkelson

January 6, 2012

Low upside prospect for low upside prospect. I actually thought Jones was filling in that 4th line center role well this year, but the coaching staff seem to agree. Mikkelson also got some NHL games under his bet with the Lightning but has since moved on. I'd call this deal a draw.

Michael Cammalleri,

 Karri Ramo,

2012 5th round pick (Brett Kulak) for Rene Bourque,

 Patrick Holland,

2013 2nd round pick (#36 - Zach Fucale)

January 12, 2012

The winner of this deal will ultimately be decided by the prospects involved. Cammalleri and Bourque have brought relatively the same value to their respective teams, it all lies on what Holland/Fucale and Kulak/Ramo do. At this point, I'd call it a draw but Ramo's performance this season will likely decide it.

Brian Connelly for Brendan Morrison

January 27, 2012

Another low key move, the Flames traded Morrison who no longer had a spot on the team to Chicago for Connelly who helped out the farm team. No winners. No losers. If anything it was a favour to Morrison - finding him a home.

Akim Aliu for John Negrin

January 30, 2012

This deal looked a lot better for Calgary at the end of the 2011/12 season with the way Aliu played those final two games, but now this is just another AHLer for AHLer deal.

2012 1st round pick (#21-Mark Jankowski)

2012 2nd round pick (#42-Patrick Sieloff) for 2012 1st round pick (#14-Zemgus Girgensons)

June 22, 2012

The infamous Jankowski deal that made some Flames fan cringe - when the trade was announced as well as when the 21st pick was made. After all, Finnish dynamo Tuevo Teravainen (projected to go Top 5) was still on the board and Jankowski was projected to go mid 2nd. But now when looking at this deal - Jankowski and Sieloff for Girgensons - it's a win for the Flames. Girgensons doesn't project to be anything above a fringe second line guy while Jankowski could be a Top 6 center and Sieloff a Top 4 defenseman.

Dennis Wideman for Jordan Henry and a 2013 5th round pick

June 27, 2012

That's about market value for the rights of a good NHLer like Wideman so nothing to complain about. Henry's an AHL level guy and the 5th rounder was dealt.

7th Round Pick (#198 - John Gilmour) for Henrik Karlsson

January 21, 2013

Karlsson had no future in Calgary (he had just lost the back up job to Leland Irving) so turning him into a decent prospect was a job well done by Feaster and the scouting staff.

Mike Testwuide for Mitch Wahl

February 25, 2013

AHLer for AHLer. Nothing to see here folks.

Brian McGrattan for Joe Piskula

February 28, 2013

Well not only did fan favourite Brian McGrattan add needed grit to the team, he also turned into a scoring machine, sniping 3 silky geno's - matching his previous career total (LOL). Ryane Clowe had the same amount of goals as MacGrattan last year and the Rangers paid way more than an AHL defensemen to get him. Yeah, I'd rather have MacGrattan too. Who needs skating anyway? Career defining win for Feaster ;-)

Ben Hanowski, Kenny Agostino and a 2013 1st Round Pick (#28 - Morgan Klimchuck) for Jarome Iginla

March 27, 2013

We're now wading into "wait and see" territory as these latest trades can't be fairly judged for another few years. On the surface though, 2 solid prospects and Hanowski is pretty good return acknowledging the circumstances Iginla was traded in. Getting good return on an average 35 year old NHLer who will only go to ONE team is no easy task. Even if that guy is Jarome Iginla. Iginla is also no longer a member of the Penguins so those 3 pieces for 28 "eh" games of Iggy seems like good, bordering on great value for Calgary. For the record, I would've preferred Boston's deal.

Mark Cundari, Reto Berra and a

2013 1st round pick (#22 - Emile Porier) for Jay Bouwmeester

April 1, 2013

Wasn't a fan of this deal when it happened and frankly, I'm still not one. Bouwmeester is still a premier NHL defensemen and albiet a little over paid, he's worth more than what was acquired. It seemed like Feaster felt like he needed to tear it all down at once and may have rushed this deal a little. Best case scenario is that Berra is a starting goaltender, Cundari a Top 4 D and Porier a Top 6 forward but to me it looks more likely to turn into 3 average guys for Bouwmeester. Many media outlets however reported this was the only deal that included a 1st rounder - which would've been a must - so providing that be true, Feaster did ok. Again though, we can't judge this trade fairly until we see what the three guys turn into.

2013 5th Round Pick (#135 - Eric Roy) for Blake Comeau

April 3, 2013

The fact that Feaster actually got something - let alone a solid prospect - out of a deal for Blake Comeau is magic. Tip of the hat to you sir.

Corban Knight for a 2013 4th Round Pick (#97 - Michael Downing)

June 18, 2013

As of right now, Corban Knight is one of the top prospects in the organization, he fills a massive need at center and most importantly, is better than Michael Downing. Things can however, change. Today, it's a steal for Calgary, but for all we know Knight will bust and Downing will be the next Bobby Orr (he won't but for argument sake go with it).

 David Jones and Shane O`Brien for Cory Sarich and Alex Tanguay

June 27, 2013

We'll have to see how these guys do with their respective teams in 2013/14 but on the surface, Calgary gets younger, faster and harder to play against (Sarich doesn't add toughness from the press box) which are all things they identified as goals. Looks good to me.

 T.J. Galiardi for a 2015 4th Round Pick

July 2, 2013

We won't know the verdict of this one until long down the road but Galiardi is a serviceable NHLer with a little upside still remaining which more than can be said for most 4th Rounders. Still, this one is long from decided.

Kris Russell for a 2014 5th Round Pick

July 5, 2013

Same as Galiardi, Russell is a better player than most 5th rounders will become, but we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

So of the 22 trades Feaster completed as GM of the Flames, I would say he only got ruined once - on the Reghr deal, although the PL3 trade was a loser the moment it was consummated. Everything else is either fair (in the case of the AHLer for AHLer), good value or to be determined. I joked about MacGrattan being his career defining trade but in reality the Iginla and Bouwmeester moves will be the ones that will define his stay as GM of the Flames. Both look decent at the moment but only time will tell how good the return for the Flames really was.

So the trade record isn't too shabby thus far.

Maybe it's his signings or drafting? Let's take a look.


Signings

During his 3 summers at the helm of the Flames, I'd say Feaster's Free Agent Frenzy activity has been defined more by deals he didn't make than the deals he did. 'Twas just 2 summers ago - in 2011, that Feaster moved heaven and earth to try and sign Brad Richards and rekindle the relationship they had in TampaBay. His failure to do so is currently being praised by every Flames fan on the planet. Having that monster deal attached to that player right now would be disastrous to the rebuild. In fact, if Richards was here there might not even have been a rebuild initiated.

Then there was the curious case of Ryan O'Reilly. What a rollercoaster that was. It went from pure elation "omg we're gonna get a franchise centerman for only a 1st and a 3rd and we're gonna make the playoffs with him" to disappointment "damn they matched" to a mix of horror and relief "we could have given Colorado our 1st and 3rd and then lost the player on waivers?!?! Thank god they matched!".  

Either of those two deals happening would probably result in Feaster losing his job. Imagine if both signings had happened, the franchise would've been in the worst spot of any NHL team in recent memory.

Feaster's actual signings however aren't too bad. Aside from a couple of uncomfortable term and money combinations handed to Alex Tanguay ($3.5M cap hit for 5 years) and Dennis Wideman ($5.25M cap hit for 5 years) it's been mostly recruiting college kids and signing/re-signing guys in the organization, although the Anton Babchuk and Brendan Morrison re-signs were bad bets, albeit not terribly damaging ones.

Feaster also managed to sign Curtis Glencross to incredible hometown discount with a cap hit of $2.55 million for another 2 years which currently seems too good to be true. He took a swing at Roman Cervenka and has taken heat for KHL sniper's flop in Calgary, but it was a decent low risk, medium reward gambit for the Flames. In fact, I'd like to see more of these type of ventures - eventually one of these home run swings will connect.

Juri Hudler's 4 years at 4 million per is another deal that could be a source for criticism because he's now one of the highest paid players on the team and not really the sort of talent that is going to turn the ship around. Hudler performed well last year, though he may not last in town over the long term.

A few notable re-signings include Lee Stempniak, Mikael Backlund (twice) and TJ Brodie to good term, fair money deals. A couple of head scratchers in the form of Anton Babchuck (2 years, $7M) and Cory Sarich (2 years, $4M) but neither did anything more than fill the press box and slightly lighten Murray Edwards' pockets.

Everything else has been relatively low risk and low profile. No real Glen Sather bombs on Feasters resume in Calgary to this point. Yeah, he almost bit the bullet twice with Richards and O'Reilly, but he didn't and in my opinion that's all that matters.

Draft

So his drafting record is the only tangible thing (short of the team's performance) left to judge Feaster's time in Calgary and we all now that there's little here that speaks against Feaster and his management team. He's done a masterful job of turning the prospect base into one of the best in the league. Nonetheless, let's take a quick look:

 

#, Year

Name

Status/Potential

13, 2011

F Sven Baertschi

Top 6 NHLer with upside

21, 2012

F Mark Jankowski

Top 10 team prospect with Top 6 upside

6, 2013

F Sean Monahan

Top 2 team prospect with top line potential

21, 2013

F Emile Poirier

Top 10 team prospect with Top 6 potential

28, 2013

F Morgan Klimchuck

Top 10 team prospect with Top 6 potential

45, 2011

F Markus Granlund

Top 15 prospect with Top 6 potential

57, 2011

D Tyler Wotherspoon

Top 15 prospect with Top 4 potential

42, 2012

D Pat Sieloff

Top 15 prospect with Top 4 potential

75, 2012

G Jon Gillies

Top 10 prospect with starting potential

67, 2013

D Keegan Kanzig

Prospect with potential

104, 2011

F Johnny Gaudreau

Top 5 prospect with top line potential

105, 2012

D Brett Kulak

Top 20 prospect with Top 6 potential

124, 2012

D Ryan Culkin

Top 15 prospect with Top 4 potential

135, 2013

D Eric Roy

Top 15 prospect with Top 4 potential

164, 2011

G Laurent Brossoit

Top 15 prospect with starting potential

165, 2012

F Coda Gordan

Top 25 prospect with Top 9 potential

157, 2013

F Tim Harrison

Top 20 prospect with Top 9 potential

186, 2012

F Matt DeBlouw

Top 25 prospect with NHL potential

187, 2013

D Rushan Rafikov

Top 15 prospect with Top 4 potential

198, 2013

D John Gilmour

Top 25 prospect with NHL potential

Overall, it's a very solid group. A gecent mix of talent and depth. Looks like a number of these guys will actually be NHLers one day. Quite the change from the Sutter era.

Conclusion

So why are so many Flames faithful calling for it? My answer is: the way he sometimes handles his business and puts the fans in a crappy spot. Nothing concrete or official, rather little declarations and bold speeches that sometimes put the Flames and their faithful in the cross hairs of critics and trolls league wide. The guarantee that Calgary will make the playoffs? That ridicule lasted right up until Feaster told the world that 21st overall, off the board selection Mark Jonkowski will be the best player to come out of the 2012 Draft. Combine that with the crappy records and underachieving, aging group in Calgary, Flames fans were constant targets for jokes and tease from the rest of the league.

Feaster's rhetoric aside, his tenure in Calgary began on the wrong foot, mostly because the prior regime bungled things so badly. Only now that he's been allowed to clear everything out and start fresh will we really get to see what kind of mark he can make on the organization.

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Christian Roatis is a European by birth, Calgarian by heart. Other than writing at FlamesNation, he writes about and scouts NHL Draft Prospects at Future Considerations. Follow him on Twitter @CRoatis!
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#51 Carlos Danger
August 07 2013, 09:17AM
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Feaster does have more Stanley Cups than the Canucks. That's good right?

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#52 Justin Azevedo
August 07 2013, 01:47PM
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why does everyone consider 5'10 and 5'11 to be "undersized"? there were more than 250 players last year that were under 6'0, including the best in the game

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#53 Parallex
August 06 2013, 01:05PM
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Monaertchi Gaudnett wrote:

Yes, "This".

The hyperbole was almost certainly used to illustrate the point, not compare severity. That's what hyperbole is for and how it should be used.

I agree 100% with the point, that trying to do something that is very stupid but failing is not a positive attribute.

No, the severity matters. I'm sorry but there is no way in hell that the Regher trade is the metaphorical equivalency in the hockey transaction world of allowing a dog mauling of a child. I can't take seriously anyone who thinks otherwise.

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#54 McRib
August 06 2013, 01:09PM
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@RexLibris

"Feaster's record at the draft going back to his days as Lightning GM is beyond atrocious. No team in the NHL has ever struck out at the draft podium as often as Tampa Bay, and over their history the Lightning have been the worst-drafting team in the history of the NHL Entry Draft. Feaster oversaw a reasonable slice of this history as AGM and GM."

Feaster has stated multiple times that his biggest mistake in Tampa Bay was going along with ownerships request to draft big project defenders three years in a row (Mike Egener, Andy Rogers, Vladimir Mihalik). Anyone who has listened to him knows he acknowledges this as his down fall in TB. Its also why he brought in John Weisbrod who for all intensive purposes is in charge of scouting not Feaster!!!

The fact that you say Calgary's Propsects are "middle of the pack" as Sean Monahn & Emile Poirier are currently dominating Canadian itersquad games at the World Jr Camp makes me seriously question what your resorces are Hockey's Future, Hahaha. Outside of Hockey's Future, Corey Pronman is as low as I have seen our Propsect Pool at 10th. Most people have us well within the Top. 5 and as Emile Poirier continues to put on performances like yesterdays its only going to get better.

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#55 Clyde Frog
August 06 2013, 02:35PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

According to Hockey Prospectus, precisely 20 teams would trade farm systems with Calgary.

Just repeat that 3 times a night and you'll be fine...

The fact that Ben Hanowski and Kenny Agostino are being considered as more than a couple hands to hold the bag of pucks that was that 1st round pick just shows you how far this prospect pool has to go.

People showing "respect" for the Jarome Iginla trade need to remember that Feaster could have traded him earlier for a more substantial return... But got lost twiddling his thumbs until this looked like a "decent" return.

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#56 Captain Ron
August 06 2013, 04:57PM
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Christian Roatis wrote:

I'm actually quite surprised by the amount of people that agree. I thought I'd get grilled something fierce for siding with Feaster.

Really thought you did a good job here Christian.

In looking at the big picture I'm satisfied to this point in the body of work Feaster has done. When a new GM inherits a job from an old one it is usually because the last guy fails and leaves a mess behind. This was certainly the case here with this Flames team when he took over. We are in much better shape now than we were when he took over and to me that's the thing that matters most when doing the evaluation. For the first time in a long time we can say with out a doubt that there is hope for the future.

I will however be a little more critical of his work than I have been in the past starting this season and moving forward.

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#57 BurningSensation
August 06 2013, 10:05PM
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The Last Big Bear wrote:

1) The only good thing you can say about the Iginla trade is that Feaster's hands were tied. That may or may not have been his own fault, which is why I give him the benefit of the doubt. But Iginla scored 12 points in 15 playoff games. That's worth a lot more than a very very late 1st rounder, and a middling prospect (I wont even include Hanowski, who's all but proven that he will never be an NHLer).

2) Berra will *probably* be worth absolutely nothing to any NHL team. Cundari is an injury replacement on a basement-dwelling team, and simply not big enough to play his game at an NHL level. Which leaves Poirer. Odds on Poirer being an All-Star, regular Canadian Olympic invite, and leading the NHL in any major statistical category (ala Bouwmeester)?

3) I absolutely would have preferred Girgensons. I was very vocal about my hopes that the Flames would choose him, well before the draft. I never dreamed Tervainen would still be available, but OBVIOUSLY would have been very happy to see him selected. I'm not sure how that makes me a pants-wetter.

Conclusion- my underwear has PENGUINS IN CHRISTMAS OUTFITS on it. Your argument is invalid.

1. Iginla was floated by his linemates throughout the playoffs, and despite a reduction in salary Pittsburgh didn't want him back. Not to mention that Iginla was one of only two trades to involve a 1st rndr (JBo being the other). Feaster KILLS this deal. Klimchuk has all the hallmarks of being a legit NHL scoring fwd in 3 yeears. Iginla doesn't. Agostin and Hanowski are pure gravy.

2. For me Bera and Cundari are the gravy in the deal, the pick that landed Poirier being the meat. If either Bera or Cundari turn out to be full fledged NHL players it's a win, but realistically the value of this trade lies in Poirier. Flames mgt gave the highest priority on gaining 1st rnd picks, and St Louis offer was the best available that included one. JBO is a very nice talent, and I think grossly under appreciated, but he wasn't going to bring back the world in a trade (in fact even signing him to a reduced $ cap hit JBo crimped the Blues budget and is part of what forced them to trade Perron for Paajarvi).

3. I agree that I would have preferred Tervainen over Girgensons, but clearly disagree about Jankowski. Two things; I wonder if there is a type of player that the Flames make sure they DON'T draft in the first round - namely, undersized skill centers. Two drafts running the Flames have skipped around Tervainen and Shinkaruk, players of similar build and skillset. Is it because the Flames scouts don't project players of the body-type or toolbox to be successful centers? Two, the pants wetting is preferring the conservative lower ceiling player (a Sutter hallmark), over a 'go for broke' kid with question marks but high end upside. Feaster even dropped down to get another pick to hedge against the risk he was taking! My biggest disappointment wasn't Jankowski/Seiloff, it was that Grigorenko almost fell into our lap and Buffalo spiked him. Otherwise, I thought Feaster showed both prudence and balls in making the moves he did.

4. You have the logo of another franchise on your underwear. Your argument is invalid. Hilarious, and well received, but invalid.

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#58 Arik
August 06 2013, 10:17AM
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@Kenta

No, quite good actually. Why do you ask?

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#60 Parallex
August 06 2013, 12:11PM
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Arik wrote:

The infamous Jankowski deal that made some Flames fan cringe - when the trade was announced as well as when the 21st pick was made. After all, Finnish dynamo Tuevo Teravainen (projected to go Top 5) was still on the board and Jankowski was projected to go mid 2nd. But now when looking at this deal - Jankowski and Sieloff for Girgensons - it's a win for the Flames. Girgensons doesn't project to be anything above a fringe second line guy while Jankowski could be a Top 6 center and Sieloff a Top 4 defenseman.

This is...awful analysis. Jankowski is tracking worse now than he was before since we've actually seen him in the NCAA and it's been bad.

Furthermore, you completely ignore the fact that Teravainen has looked utterly excellent in WJC camps recently and scored 31 pts in 44 games in the SM-liiga.

No he doesn't, the trade didn't end up being Jankowski & Sieloff for Teravainen it ended up being Jankowski & Sieloff for Girgensons... if you're picking a winner for that deal then you use who they actually got not who they could have had (otherwise you may as well just call it a draw because neither of them got Teravainen).

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#61 ChinookArch
August 06 2013, 12:13PM
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Holy cow, I can't believe Burning Sensation hasn't chimed in with "In Further Defence of Jay Feaster".

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#62 The Last Big Bear
August 06 2013, 01:56PM
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Parallex wrote:

No, the severity matters. I'm sorry but there is no way in hell that the Regher trade is the metaphorical equivalency in the hockey transaction world of allowing a dog mauling of a child. I can't take seriously anyone who thinks otherwise.

I think giving up 6th overall (Sean Monahan) and a 3rd rounder (Keegan Kanzig) for absolutely nothing in return, pretty much *IS* the hockey GM equivalent of letting a dog bite a kid.

A dog that does that has seen his last day as a dog, and a GM that does that has seen his last day as a GM.

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#63 Monaertchi Gaudnett
August 06 2013, 02:53PM
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Parallex wrote:

What has that to do with the Regher trade? Or 14 for 21 + 2nd Rounder since those are the only two things Feaster has done with Buffelo neither one of which is at all an apt metafor for a dog mauling a child.

It has nothing to do with it. It has to do with the ROR offer sheet. The only thing that saved the Flames from sending their 1st and 3rd (Monohan and Kanzig) to Colorado so that Columbus could claim ROR off waivers is Colorado preferring ROR to a 1st and 3rd.

It might just be the stupidest move in Flames history, and that's saying something indeed.

As for Feaster saying that they have a list and pick from it, he also said his directive from on high was to make the playoffs next season, and that by 2022 Janko would be the best player from his draft year.

Never trust a lawyer, or an American, and especially not both.

Just kidding 'Merica.

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#64 ngthagg
August 06 2013, 03:13PM
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I will be interested to see if Feaster gets to stay around to see the success. It will be easy for the team to can him after all the hard work is done. After a couple more losing, non-playoff seasons, it will be easy for ownership to say something along the lines of "we need to take the team in a new direction" just as the prospects are becoming players and Calgary is looking like an attractive free agent destination.

There would be some poetic justice in that, for Feaster to be replaced just as the team he built is hitting its stride.

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#65 Kurt
August 06 2013, 03:34PM
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T&A4Flames wrote:

You should just cheer for the Oilers and be done with it.

Your beloved Oilers organization have made their share of blunders as well, you know.

EASY! Beloved is not a word I'd use for the Oilers! As Ketchupkid pointed out, I'm a bit melodratic about this stuff. But I'm just passionate about the team and tired of sucking.... I actually am happy with the past 3-4 months. Very happy. Just cause I'm critical of Feaster and find a lot of parallels in our plight and the errors Edmonton made doesn't mean I like or wish we were anything like the Coilers.

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#66 KetchupKid
August 06 2013, 04:00PM
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@Christian Roatis

Also: that Feaster graphic is outstanding.

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#68 non descript
August 06 2013, 07:53PM
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you flamers are missing the big picture. and kurt, i would have expected you would recognize this. indeed the flames could have started this rebuild several years ago and feaster has done a masterful job, through his arrogant insistance that he will not "copy" edmonton, in masking his intentions. realize this though. your team is a couple of 2014 trade deadline dumps away from icing i would say far and away the worst roster in the league in 2014-15 and being the front runners for generational talent conner mcdavid. i believe you guys are a draft lottery away from drafting the best player since crosby.

or maybe i am giving feaster too much credit and he bumbled his way into it. either way....

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#69 the-wolf
August 07 2013, 06:34AM
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BurningSensation wrote:

1. Iginla was floated by his linemates throughout the playoffs, and despite a reduction in salary Pittsburgh didn't want him back. Not to mention that Iginla was one of only two trades to involve a 1st rndr (JBo being the other). Feaster KILLS this deal. Klimchuk has all the hallmarks of being a legit NHL scoring fwd in 3 yeears. Iginla doesn't. Agostin and Hanowski are pure gravy.

2. For me Bera and Cundari are the gravy in the deal, the pick that landed Poirier being the meat. If either Bera or Cundari turn out to be full fledged NHL players it's a win, but realistically the value of this trade lies in Poirier. Flames mgt gave the highest priority on gaining 1st rnd picks, and St Louis offer was the best available that included one. JBO is a very nice talent, and I think grossly under appreciated, but he wasn't going to bring back the world in a trade (in fact even signing him to a reduced $ cap hit JBo crimped the Blues budget and is part of what forced them to trade Perron for Paajarvi).

3. I agree that I would have preferred Tervainen over Girgensons, but clearly disagree about Jankowski. Two things; I wonder if there is a type of player that the Flames make sure they DON'T draft in the first round - namely, undersized skill centers. Two drafts running the Flames have skipped around Tervainen and Shinkaruk, players of similar build and skillset. Is it because the Flames scouts don't project players of the body-type or toolbox to be successful centers? Two, the pants wetting is preferring the conservative lower ceiling player (a Sutter hallmark), over a 'go for broke' kid with question marks but high end upside. Feaster even dropped down to get another pick to hedge against the risk he was taking! My biggest disappointment wasn't Jankowski/Seiloff, it was that Grigorenko almost fell into our lap and Buffalo spiked him. Otherwise, I thought Feaster showed both prudence and balls in making the moves he did.

4. You have the logo of another franchise on your underwear. Your argument is invalid. Hilarious, and well received, but invalid.

Still don't understand this logic that the Flames somehow had to choose between Girgensons or Jankowski. Makes zero sense.

Swinging for the fences is fine, but only if you can actually hit the ball while doing so. Just taking wild swings and proclaiming that it's superior to a bunt and getting on base is just plain wrong.

Feaster has done nothing special. At all. "Meh," as I said earlier and that's just looking at the moves posted by Christian. I never even went into the ROR disaster or his big mouth. For those who still try and support the ROR disaster, just imagine Monahan playing for the Avs right now. Thank goodness Sherman was as dumb as Feaster.

I like some of the things he's done organizationally, but as BS points out, he's yet to steal anything. Langkow was his best trade, but that's not exactly a steal. Lauding a guy for being at best 'average' strains credulity.

As for comments about who I'd rather see: Hextall, Nill & JD come to mind. Calgary ownership wasn't ineterested though. They prefer 'yes men.'

So while even I defend some of Feaster's moves, there's nothing there as a body of work to champion.

Hilarious, btw, that a guy like Iginla, so fiercely defended by some on here when he wore Flames colors is now so casually thrown under the bus in order to defend a GM of Feaster's caliber. Truth is, they're both terrible.

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#70 RexLibris
August 07 2013, 10:24AM
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Carlos Danger wrote:

Feaster does have more Stanley Cups than the Canucks. That's good right?

That's what I like to hear - some positive perspective. ;-)

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#71 Jeff Lebowski
August 07 2013, 11:19AM
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TheRealPoc wrote:

Subtract Sieloff, Jankowski and Poirier from that list, and replace them just with Shinkaruk and Teravainen/Hertl. 3 for 2.

I'd argue we'd have the best prospect pipeline in the entire league if that were the case.

At the end if the day, who cares what the ranking or industry opinion is (except the situation of a trade of a prospect) of the prospect pool?

What matters is how many players develop and PLAY in the NHL. Sure, it's nice to see prospects tracking well but if they hit the skids before becoming legit 'players' the 'sexiness' factor means nothing.

Perhaps those other guys do make it compared to Calgary's kids but until that happens the rhetoric is just that. With those other guys, if they make it at all it's going to have to be as top 6. Small, slight guys who don't produce (and don't do anything else like agitate) don't play.

The point is, nothing can be concluded yet. Time will tell.

I have faith in Feaster. He has made mistakes but he seems to be a guy who reflects on them in order to improve. So for me, it's the next move I look at not what happened in the past.

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#72 Parallex
August 08 2013, 11:30AM
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@the-wolf

But nor should he be given condemnation for trying to do something that only appears stupid with the benefit of hindsight (unless Psychic Poweres is one of your expectations for GMs) or for making the kind of moves that the people who sign his paycheque wanted him to make.

I always find it kind of silly that the people who think Jay Feaster should be fired think that he should be fired essentually for doing what his bosses wanted him to do (try to win and not rebuild).

Hockey still exists within the confines of the real world here people... you try to do what your boss wants you to try to do, if you refuse they'll just find someone else who will.

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#73 Arik
August 06 2013, 10:27AM
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Couldn't figure out how to embed, but FRIENDSNATION. http://i44.tinypic.com/35k6aol.jpg

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#74 coachedpotatoe
August 06 2013, 11:02AM
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Feaster as the GM; how does he grade out? One he is not a real hockey; but he is smart enough to know that and has surrounded himself with some good people and has given them a voice which he listens to. His drafting has been sound but not great(however time will tell us the truth). His trades have been good overall for the organization. Hiring Hartley was a good move. His ventures into Richards and ROR almost blew up in his face and hopefully he has learnt from this. What needs to happen now is for KK to move away from hockey and allow Feaster and his team the time needed to rebuild this franchise. As fans we need understand this could take 3-5 years (That's how long this team was imploding for) I actually spoke with Mr Feaster at Heritage Park on the weekend and he was quit friendly. I would give this hiring to date a B-, but time will change this. I am looking forward to the rebuild and this season. I am aslo tired of comparing ours to the Oilers; hopefully we can learn from their mistakes: I don't need a TV show to air our story, keep and have quality veterans around to mentor the kids and allow the kids to develop into complete players.

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#75 Michael
August 06 2013, 11:30AM
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GM’s and coaches tend to have short shelve lives, so it’s likely that Feaster will be long gone before we can properly evaluate some of his draft day decisions. Kent uses the word ‘underwhelming’ a lot when describing the return on Feaster’s trades, I think that is pretty accurate. Yes, Feaster got a return for Iggy and JBo, and we will not know the real value of the return for years, but it is pretty underwhelming. Late first round picks and mid to no name prospects rarely make an impact in the NHL. Feaster also took a run at Richards (which would have proved disastrous) and let’s not forget the potential ROR disaster. Feaster is a mix of good, bad and yet to be determined. I rate Feaster as ‘underwhelming’

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#76 Captain Ron
August 06 2013, 07:56PM
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Christian Roatis wrote:

I wouldn't say FN is done, I think everyone other than me and Rex still dislike Feaster as GM. It's a miracle this article got past editing ;)

Rex likes Feaster? When did he have a change of heart? My impression of his feelings toward the man are just the opposite based some of the comments he has made about him. Hasn't he come out and said he is not a fan of the guy on more than one occasion?

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#77 RexLibris
August 06 2013, 11:59PM
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@Christian Roatis

I'm not a fan of Feaster, no. My criticism of him isn't personal, I think he is someone who devotes himself to his job and believes that he is making the best choices for the organization.

He has a law degree and is educated, and I respect those accomplishments.

He has also won a Stanley Cup, the same number of championships as Brian Burke and Ray Shero as GMs.

All that aside, I do not believe that he necessarily speaks with as much personal honesty, though perhaps with sincerity. That is, he is honest in speaking what he believes, but perhaps is not as honest with himself about those same beliefs as he could be. This brings us back to intellectual honesty, but I think we've talked that topic to death. Its a minor distinction, and entirely opinion, but nevertheless, his history would seem to suggest something like it.

He has a penchant for hyperbole and combative language that may be a trademark of his legal training, but does not translate well to the public sphere and now only serves to further undermine his credibility. It can put undue onus on the player and is irresponsible in crafting expectations.

Being educated and even accomplished in your field does not, necessarily, make oneself a truly intelligent individual, and certainly does not inherently equip one for all matters of management. I am not willing to take for granted that his having a law degree necessarily makes him one of the smartest men in NHL managerial circles. Feaster has some abilities that relate to the world of business, of that I have no doubt. However, I have not seen any evidence that those skills extend to the world of sports management.

I would rate Jay Feaster as one of the worst GMs in the NHL right now. He is one of the last managers I would ever choose to have in control of a franchise entering into a rebuilding period. I know that is harsh, but I've taken a very long look at his career before coming to this conclusion and it doesn't matter one bit what team he works for, so local sentiments are not a factor in this belief.

For the record, Mike Gillis, Steve Tambellini, and perhaps Glen Sather would round out the current and recent GMs at the bottom of the list. I'm not convinced that Garth Snow has made any significant steps forward, but we shall see in due time. I also recognize that the difference between a good GM and a bad one is narrower margin than likely many of us have in our professions.

I did defend Feaster's trade of Iginla, but that was recognizing that he really didn't have many, if any, options and did himself a favour by structuring a deal around a 1st round pick in return.

Again, and I must emphasize this last point, this is in no way a personal attack on the man. He may be the kindest soul in the business today and I intend no slight to him personally. I only offer my honest and researched opinion on his abilities as a General Manager of an NHL team.

Sorry for the polemic, but I didn't want anyone mistaking my comments as being a personal attack or springing from local rivalries.

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#78 coachedpotatoe
August 07 2013, 07:36AM
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@BurningSensation

Actually where the Flames win by trading is acquiring a second round pick who seems to be possible top 4 defenseman. If Janko makes the NHL this will be a great move.

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#79 Clyde Frog
August 07 2013, 08:22AM
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Firstly looking at trades of actual NHL players for "Magic Beans" especially in the form of late 1st rounders requires an understanding that your GM has 100% gone into rebuild mode.

Secondly it requires a further understanding that you just lost a productive roster player for the chance at a player in 2-5 years. This player may eclipse your current one, but has almost an equal chance to not even make the NHL roster at any point...

If Feaster had accepted the roster and performance deficiencies earlier, he could have seen a much greater return in prospects with an actual chance to step into the NHL roster.

He didn't, he twiddled his thumbs until the shine wore off Iginla. He waited for the press to shout from the rooftops Jarome's discontent and for the market to essentially collapse.

That's the issue with measuring Feaster's performance, telling yourself again and again that he forced an amazing return out of Pittsburgh requires you to:

A. Terribly undervalue actual NHL players versus prospects with a big shiny future and a small chance of cracking an NHL roster

B.Completely forget he could have made moves much earlier for actual NHL pieces that could have helped your roster then and today

But hey if the new measure of GM success is repeating the mantra,"We will be good in 2 years, just you wait!"

Well then I guess Feaster has started to look not bad.

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#80 MC Hockey
August 07 2013, 09:32PM
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Clay wrote:

I'm on board with Christian.

My feelings reside mostly with the fact that Feaster, while we hate his rants, remains a man of action. We aren't kickstarting this rebuild with Tambo at the helm.

His drafting record in Calgary speaks for itself. Before you criticize individual selections like Jankowski remember that every pick is more likely to not be a serviceable NHLer than will be. The proof is in the average. We have gone from a bottom 5 system to a top 10 as per Pronman, with a couple of mid round picks having homerun potential. Personally, I'd rather see the team select Jankowski and Poirier when they have conviction on the player, than walk up and take Teravainen and Shinkaruk because that is where Bobby Mac's phone calls say he's the best player available. Having conviction shows homework was being done, and the Flames arent just picking a guy because he's the next Western Leaguer on the list.

Agree with this very much! How do you judge Jankowski on that one season in college where he was playing behind older guys? I like the conviction of the moves assumng they did their research, and you must NOT forget they got Seiloff too!

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#81 T&A4Flames
August 06 2013, 01:48PM
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@McRib

Where are you guys getting these prospect pool rankings? Other than Pronman of course.

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#82 Parallex
August 06 2013, 02:00PM
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@The Last Big Bear

What has that to do with the Regher trade? Or 14 for 21 + 2nd Rounder since those are the only two things Feaster has done with Buffelo neither one of which is at all an apt metafor for a dog mauling a child.

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#83 Sapp Macintosh
August 06 2013, 03:54PM
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Wow that is some ugly formatting, I apologize. There WERE line breaks in my edition but I guess they didn't translate. Sorry! :(

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#84 Kent Wilson
August 06 2013, 04:26PM
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@KetchupKid

That graphic from our Staios! Is! Available! photoshop contest. We have all of them archives at the FN facebook page if you missed it.

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#85 KetchupKid
August 06 2013, 06:55PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

That graphic from our Staios! Is! Available! photoshop contest. We have all of them archives at the FN facebook page if you missed it.

Staios! Is! Available! is actually the name of my new dating website. You'll be hearing from my lawyers.

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#86 The Last Big Bear
August 07 2013, 08:03AM
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@RexLibris

"[Jay Feaster] has made moves that would not have been seen under Darryl Sutter and the change in direction... "

I don't really get this part. Feaster didn't come in as the champion of the rebuild. He was dragged into the rebuild kicking and screaming, while desperately throwing big contracts left and right at 30+ year old players like Ryan Smyth and Brad Richards.

Darryl Sutter mortgaged the future to try and win the cup during the window of his star players, Iginla, and Kiprusoff. That was the right thing to do at the time. It didn't work, but it was still the right thing to do.

The notions that Feaster would have done anything much differently, or that Sutter wouldn't be rebuilding now if he were still in place, are completely baseless.

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#87 coachedpotatoe
August 07 2013, 08:26AM
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@The Last Big Bear

In 2006 trying to win the cup made sense to most of us and maybe again in 2007 after that it was Sutter's ego and above that failed to realize that something different needed to be done. Sutter drafting and trades did not help his team in the short run of in the future as the game had changed. Let's remember we came out of nowhere in 2004 for the run we did. ( we as a fan base and the owners gave Sutter, Iggie and Kipper the keys to the city after that) Even then we did not have the depth to remain a contender. Sutter's insistence on drafting "character WHL" guys over more skilled players has hurt this organization deeply. Attack Feaster sure; keep his feet to the fire awesome, let everyone of us make sure we keep the organization accountable; the Sutter era should have taught all of us not to have blinders on. If we look at all the best franchises over the last decade or so how many of them have changed coaches and GM's like we have. (they have kept people even during the lean years)

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#88 mslepp
August 06 2013, 10:49AM
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Yikes.

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#89 Monaertchi Gaudnett
August 06 2013, 01:01PM
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Parallex wrote:

Whoa... that's a few baseless assumptions and loaded words right there. The idea that the Flames drafted Poirier with Shinkaruk still on the board just because they didn't think that Shinkaruk would be there is laughable... the Flames like all teams have a list, they took Poirier before Shinkaruk because they had him (Poirier) higher on the list.

I mean... did the 22 other teams that passed on Shinkaruk (or more realistically 12 other teams if you go by Shinkaruk's #10ish ranking on mocks and what not) just get flustered on draft day too?

And now that you've got my dander up, I assume that you have no proof at all that the Flames have a list AND that they take the best player available from that list.

Sounds like you're making a baseless assumption to me.

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#90 the-wolf
August 06 2013, 01:05PM
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Avalain wrote:

Actually I think comparing Janko to Girgensons is the best comparison that can reasonably be made. Sure, Feaster gave up the potential to draft someone like Teravainen, but if you actually compared a pick to every pick that could have been taken, almost every single pick is a loss. Trading down is then virtually ALWAYS a loss. For example, let's take a look at all of those 14th overall picks, but go back a few years so that we have hindsight to help us. 2009 was Dmitri Kulikov by Florida, but they could have picked Ryan O'Reilly. 2008 was Zach Boychuk by Carolina when Erik Karlsson went 15th and Jordan Eberle went 22nd. 2007 was Kevin Shattenkirk by Colorado, and while he's good and all, wouldn't PK Subban have been a better choice? 2006 was Michael Grabner by Vancouver while Claude Giroux went 22nd. 2005 was Sasha Pokulok by Washington when they could have had Kris Letang...or if you really think about it Washington could have drafted Jonathan Quick and actually had a solid goalie in the system. In 2004 Edmonton picked Devan Dubnyk instead of Cory Schneider. 2003...well, Brent Seabrook is a solid part of a winning Chicago team so it's really tough to argue with results - but I wonder if it would have been better to have picked Shea Weber instead? 2003 is a crazy year in terms of depth, though.

Basically, the only thing to really get out of this is that the 14th overall pick is tough. Most of the safe bets are gone but there is almost always a diamond in the rough that is very likely going to elude you. If TT was the pick that made way more sense than Girgensons, why wasn't he ACTUALLY picked then? Come on, there are reasons why players drop down in the draft. It may have been a bad choice, but clearly TT wasn't rated that highly by Feaster or he would have jumped on the pick instead of trading down.

As for him failing to win now, well, I can't see how any GM could have done that.

1) TT was the consensus BPA at that point, so it's not exactly an exercise in 20/20 hindsight.

2) Exactly, TT wasn't that highly rated by Feaster - that being Feaster's error.

Potentially anyways. I fully admit the jury is still out on both players, but it makes more sense that the "vs Girgensons (who the jury is also still out on) argument" because Buffalo may well have grabbed ANYONE at 14th (minus 13 players).

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#91 please cancel acct
August 06 2013, 06:09PM
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KetchupKid wrote:

"His ego and inability to see the train wreck coming down the tracks led to ALL OF US living through 5-6 years of hell."

Following hockey as closely as a lot of readers on this site do can lead to melodrama. I think some perspective can be useful.

I'd make the (probably boring) assessment that Jay Feaster's managing falls in a grey area somewhere between a thumbs up and a thumbs down. I like his drafting (even Jankowski), but I'm quite a bit colder on his trade history than Christian is. I get the feeling Jay's been representing ownership loyally while rebuilding as fast as possible. It has to be a pretty stressful balancing act.

Well put! Especially the part of representing ownership.I,ve never felt that Feaster has had support from that group, and his hiring of Weisbrod and Conroy as assistant managers has always left doubt as too who is making the decisions.

He exaggerates his positions and opinions when speaking to the media.

Regardless ,I also am excited with our prospects.

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#92 please cancel acct
August 06 2013, 06:37PM
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Parallex wrote:

Whoa... that's a few baseless assumptions and loaded words right there. The idea that the Flames drafted Poirier with Shinkaruk still on the board just because they didn't think that Shinkaruk would be there is laughable... the Flames like all teams have a list, they took Poirier before Shinkaruk because they had him (Poirier) higher on the list.

I mean... did the 22 other teams that passed on Shinkaruk (or more realistically 12 other teams if you go by Shinkaruk's #10ish ranking on mocks and what not) just get flustered on draft day too?

Did the 22 other teams that passed on Poierer get flustered as well?

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#93 T&A4Flames
August 06 2013, 09:23PM
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SeanCharles wrote:

Years from now we will see more clearly how much Feaster improved this organization.

He inherited a sinking ship and did a good job of repairing it.

I only hope an article like this will enlighten some because I've grown tired of all the Feaster hate.

He is a smart GM and I truly believe he is one of the best in the league.

TB was a learning experience and he has greatly improved his managing since taking the helm here.

Agreed. It doesn't hurt that CGY offers him resources (money) that the TBL organization couldn't or didn't. He's put together a solid group of managers and scouts etc that compliment his strengths and weaknesses.

Maybe not the best GM, but certainly not as bad as has been declared here in some comments.

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#94 RexLibris
August 07 2013, 07:35AM
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Christian Roatis wrote:

Oh ok so I misunderstood that earlier comment.

Yeah that's fair. Out of curiosity, where does your allegiance lie in terms of an NHL team?

Yeah, sorry again for the length of the reply. It wasn't really directed solely at you, but I've been critical of Feaster for some time now and figured I should clarify my stance and reasoning behind it. Don't take any of it personally. =)

As for my loyalties, I'd better answer that one before everyone else chimes in. I'm an Oiler fan. Always have been.

That said, when I comment or write on the Flames I take that hat off and offer, what I hope, is an objective and sometimes empathetic perspective on the franchise. I'm not an Edmonton apologist nor a troll, just someone interested in the state of other NHL franchises.

I understand your defense of Jay Feaster, as he has made moves that would not have been seen under Darryl Sutter and the change in direction, with a focus on acquiring young talent, is probably music to the ears of many fans.

I listed Tambellini as one of the worst GMs in the league during his time in Edmonton, but I also credited him with some positive steps: rebuilding the development system, prioritizing the draft while refusing to trade prospects or picks for marginal improvements, signing Hall to a very good long term contract, and willingness to open up the management of the team to some analytical input.

That being said, he also came a whisker away from trading for Dany Heatley, supported the pick of Cameron Abney and others like him, fell asleep at the switch last season when Horcoff, Belanger and Lander all went down to injury, and then traded away picks for Fistric and Brown. He was a very poor manager whose single most redeeming feature was that his extreme patience and caution prevented any talent from walking out the door. Unfortunately, it also prevented some of it from entering.

Anyway, this was a good piece, and it looks like there was a lot of research in putting together all of the pieces of Feaster's Flames portfolio-to-date.

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#95 piscera.infada
August 07 2013, 09:00AM
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@The Last Big Bear

"Darryl Sutter mortgaged the future to try and win the cup during the window of his star players, Iginla, and Kiprusoff. That was the right thing to do at the time. It didn't work, but it was still the right thing to do."

I actually tend to agree. I think Sutter was doing what he needed to at the time. Whether the team was as good as all the pundits seemed to think at the time of the Jokinen (first time), Bouwmeester, Cammi, etc. pick-ups is irrelevant. This team thought it was time to win with the Iginla's, Regher's, and Kipper's of the world. Thus, I'm not sure we can really fault Sutter as much as we do for "mortgaging the future".

This, however does not mean Feaster wasn't dealt a crap hand when he took over. Not only did he have to deal with what I can only imagine was an emasculated staff, but also a coaching staff that was a decade behind and hired purely to keep the team within the family.

I don't want to come off as a Feaster apologist - I agree with you on point that he was dragged into this rebuild despite his best efforts. On the other hand though, I actually like what he's done since (granted, small sample size) he's been thrown into the deep end, and I find myself starting to agree with his rhetoric since ownership has accepted that it's time.

As such, I give Feaster a bit of a pass for what he did when this organization was coming apart at the seams because let's face it, that's exactly what was happening. He was trying to hold it together (at all costs) as it slowly, but surely unraveled. We can sit here and say we all saw it coming, that this or that should or shouldn't have happened - and that's all well and good - but I also think it might be pragmatic to judge Feaster based on what he does in this "new world", before we jump down his throat any more than we already have.

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#96 BurningSensation
August 07 2013, 09:35AM
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Baalzamon wrote:

undersized skill centers? Shinkaruk is 100% a winger-- I have absolutely no idea where the belief that he's a center game from (not to mention all the sites that bafflingly have him listed at that position for no apparent reason), since he's spent his entire WHL career on LW.

As for Teravainen, he was billed as a scoring RW in his draft year... it was only after the draft that the Blackhawks revealed they intended to convert him to center ice... and I still think he plays wing in the NHL.

As somebody who saw him play live, I can tell you he was definitely playing center.

That said, I think that both Tervainen and Shinkaruk will make or break it in the NHL as wingers.

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#97 BurningSensation
August 07 2013, 04:14PM
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Justin Azevedo wrote:

why does everyone consider 5'10 and 5'11 to be "undersized"? there were more than 250 players last year that were under 6'0, including the best in the game

I was merely asking the question about whether or not Tervainen and Shikaruk fall in Flames scouts eyes because they have the wrong size/build by some metric the scouts are using.

It could just be a coincidence that both got passed over, and that they have similar builds/ skillsets.

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#98 MC Hockey
August 07 2013, 09:37PM
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The Last Big Bear wrote:

I have this dog, he's a really great dog, super friendly, obedient, does everything you'd ever want a dog to do.

Except like, two or three times in the last couple years, he's tried to attack a small child. But I happened to have a muzzle so he hasn't actually able to maul any toddlers. Except that one time in Buffalo. And possibly last trade deadline (I don't know how the kid turned out yet, they might be OK).

And the fact that he has tried as hard as he could to do something incredibly stupid, but was stopped by forces beyond his control, means that we should pretend it didn't happen.

I mean, sure, there are some people who say "Judging your dog based on what he *did*, it's clear that he *did* try to attack people. So that's the kind of thing we should expect him to *do* in the future. And while he did happen to have a muzzle two of the three times he's done catastrophically stupid things, he doesn't usually have a muzzle on, so maybe he isn't as good of a dog as you think."

But screw that. If someone tries their hardest to do something really, really stupid, but fails, it doesn't count. We should still consider them competent and continue to rely on their judgement.

Dumb analogy, not comparable to Feaster's situation, dramatic but useless comparison!

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#99 the-wolf
August 08 2013, 05:56AM
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MC Hockey wrote:

Agree with this very much! How do you judge Jankowski on that one season in college where he was playing behind older guys? I like the conviction of the moves assumng they did their research, and you must NOT forget they got Seiloff too!

I haven't written him off yet at all, but in answeer to your question: the way Kent did in his analysis. Seiloff is no lock to play in teh NHL either.

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#100 the-wolf
August 08 2013, 05:59AM
Trash it!
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@MC Hockey

It got his point across, so I found it effective. Feaster should not be given a free pass for trying his damndest to do something stupid and then failing at it.

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