FN Weekend Open Thread

Justin Azevedo
September 21 2013 01:36AM

 

 

Of course, the big news yesterday was that Mark Giordano has been named Captain. Not that that's surprising to anyone, but nice to see that they've finally made it official. Mike Cammalleri and Curtis Glencross are the assistants.

I don't think that a captain is needed for success on the ice, as more often than not it's just a piece of cloth sewn onto a good player's jersey. There's also the curious fact that on most teams one of the best players is the one with the C. Correlation does not imply causation, remember.

Regardless, congrats, Gio.

Reasonable Expectations

The past couple of summers we've done a series at FlamesNation looking at reasonable expectations for Flames players. As we don't have a lot of time post-summer grind we're probably only going to be able to get to a few of them. As such, is there anyone the readers want me to specifically focus on for next week?

I plan to give a general look over the forwards, defense and goaltenders but if there's players people want more in-depth coverage on, we'll be happy to oblige.

Sieloff Injury Update

It's hard to do any type of surgery on the face, so I'm not surprised they've just elected to let it heal. Unfortunately for Mr. Sieloff, however, that means he's going to have to wear full facial protection for the next 6-8 weeks.

Everyone else is progressing as normal.

Weekly Mailbag

We do a mailbag around here every week or so, but a lot of questions aren't making it to the ask.fm inbox. The link is here and it's the primary method of finding questions asked to us. The article can only work if you participate.

Choose your own adventure

With camp winding down soon, the Flames will be building their 23-man roster. Most of it is set in stone, but there's still a few spots to be decided. With that in mind, I'd like to see what everyone's roster would look like if they had control - the only guys you can use to build your roster are current UFAs and guys already under team control.

Goalies (3): Reto Berra, Joey MacDonald and Karri Ramo

Defensemen (13): Chad Billins, Chris Breen (injured), T.J. Brodie, Chris Butler, Mark Giordano, Keegan Kanzig, Shane O'Brien, John Ramage, Kris Russell, Patrick Sieloff (injured), Derek Smith, Dennis Wideman and Tyler Wotherspoon

Forwards (22): Sven Baertschi, Mikael Backlund, Steve Begin (injured), Lance Bouma, Mike Cammalleri, Michael Ferland, T.J. Galiardi, Curtis Glencross, Markus Granlund, Roman Horak, Jiri Hudler, Tim Jackman, Blair Jones, David Jones, Josh Jooris, Corban Knight, Brian McGrattan, Sean Monahan, Max Reinhart, Matt Stajan, Lee Stempniak and Ben Street

Here's what mine would look like:


Put your submission in the comments and have a good weekend.

A9d138d0e612f28cd46f9b7057ed715d
Justin is a 22-year-old Flames fan who also happens to be pursuing a double major at the University of Calgary. He has played hockey at high levels, enjoys wearing shorts and tends to drink far too much Grasshopper. Please don't hate him.
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#1 calgaryfan
September 21 2013, 09:52AM
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don't see the logic in adding free agents when the flames should be playing and developing their own draft picks. Why pick up free agents whose best years are behind them? Stay with the youth movement.

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#2 beloch
September 21 2013, 06:24AM
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You've made some odd free agent acquisitions for your lineup... You seem to want the team to "go for it", yet again!

You acquired Simon Gagne and put him on your third line, and bumped TJ Galiardi to your fourth line. Gagne is probably going to be a better player than Galiardi this season, but he's 33. All he does is help the team this year and maybe the next, precisely when that's counterproductive. On the other hand, if you give Galiardi more significant ice-time and he becomes the 40-point player he was in his rookie season... Galiardi is 25 and could be a part of the Flames' future. He's a project, but this is the perfect season to take on a lot of projects.

My feelings about Tom Gilbert and Bryzgalov are similar. Gilbert is 30 and his slot would probably be better used to develop younger players. Bryzgalov would just add to the log-jam in net the Flames have on their hands this year. Yes, Ramo might be a bust. Then you bring in Ortio or Brossoit. Worst case scenario is that the Flames have to muddle along with MacBackup in net for most of the season again, which will certainly bump the team's pick up a couple slots! Regardless, one thing the Flames need to do is figure out what kind of goalie talent they have in their system. Bringing in a FA goalie short-term isn't going to be productive.

I'm with you in the belief that a few strong free-agent signings and good goal-tending could return this team to mediocrity. I just don't think that should be an acceptable goal. The goal with any free-agent signing Burke and Feaster make going forward should be long-term potential rather than short-term impact.

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#3 McRib
September 21 2013, 11:59PM
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Emile Poirier with a four point night (2G, 2A) tonight for Gatineau the kid looking like the real deal, he also had a fight.

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#4 Primo
September 21 2013, 09:58AM
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Your strategy includes a mix of free agent vets and developing young talent. That will assure you a 15-20 place finish and no chance at some top draft potential. Now what did that accomplish?

Provide Flames fans with an energetic young hard working team and they will be happy. Especially at the next 2 drafts we will stock up on more Monahan's. That is what this franchise needs.

Park your dream of making the playoffs for a couple of years..that story line is boring.

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#6 Stubblejumper77
September 21 2013, 10:31AM
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Justin Justin Justin. Agree wholeheartedly with Beloch.

Have enjoyed your previous articles but you suddenly seem to have taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque.

Just say no to Gagne, Gilbert, Bryz and other older UFAs. Say no to another decade of middling results and poor drafts (bin dere dun dat).

Instead say yes for developing the prospect system by rotating training and development opportunities. Say yes to growing new talent from within, building up and then trading older talent for picks and prospects, and developing the best scouting system in the game. Say yes to supporting a patient approach to talent development aka Detroit. And say yes to the inclusion of advanced statistical analysis as integral part of team concept and planning.

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#7 Burnward
September 21 2013, 09:10AM
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In all seriousness though, Gilbert made me cringe every time I watched him. Does he have some great underlying numbers that I am unaware of?

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#8 Burnward
September 21 2013, 09:07AM
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Gilbert, again?!?! Oy vey.

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#9 backburner
September 23 2013, 08:23AM
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I was at a kids birthday party at Winsport on Saturday, where the Flames were practicing. After Giordano left the ice he came over and said hi to the kids and gave my daughter a high-five. I think they picked a really good Captain.

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#10 JumpJet
September 21 2013, 12:20PM
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Justin Azevedo wrote:

the plan is to tread water this year, sell at the deadline and get mcdavid in 2015

I dont see why the Flames can't suck this year AND next year. Then you might get yourself Ekblad AND McDavid.

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#11 Ryan Pike
September 21 2013, 01:10PM
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It's gonna be hard for the Flames to stay out of 7th in the Pacific.

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#12 The Oilers Shot Clock
September 21 2013, 06:26PM
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Welcome to Club Acceptance. You will notice that with every membership comes a free set of magnifying glasses so you can find personal victories and success stories in some very hard to find places. I'm assuming you have all read our club newsletter entitled "Draft Lottery - Your New Stanley". Please check your coat at the door, we've been saving you a table up at the front for a few years now. Our bandwagon taxi service won't be by for atleast 3 years, so please get comfortable and enjoy the show.

No malice intended. The B.O.A belongs in the playoffs. With the new format we might see it every year again. Get the picks, get good, and then lose to us. Our windows should overlap nicely

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#13 coachedpotatoe
September 21 2013, 08:54AM
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I have many times said I would take a different direction in this first year of the rebuild. So I would not be adding any free agents this year. I want to see what the Flames have and what they will need in the future(I would probably be looking into the UFA and RFA market next year once I have identified the teams needs and evaluated the talent level throughout the organization.) I also would take the approach of rolling 4 roughly equal lines and 3 defensive pairings. To start the season:

Monahan, Cammi, D Jones; this line gives Monahan an opportunity to play with NHL players that suit his projected role while sheltering him with their experience( he will either prove he belongs or be sent down to junior after his 9 games), Cammi still gets to be a goal scorer and leader and Jones gets a chance to reestablish himself as an offensive threat.

Stajin, Stemp, TJG this is an NHL line with TJG being given a chance to establish himself. Stajin and Stemp have proven they have some chemistry.

Backs,Sven and Glencross; this line gives Sven every opportunity to prove himself as an NHL forward. Backs and Glencross will help teach him how to play every night and in every situation.

Horak, Hudler and Knight(this is the one big question mark for me); again by playing with a vet with offensive upside we will get to see what Horak brings to the table; Knight will also get a chance to play at center some on this line and be ready to be a center if Monahan gets sent down.

My pp units would likely be Stajin, Stemp and Glencross

Monahan, Cammi and Hudler/Sven

My extra forwards at this time would likely be Bouma and Jackman or B Jones.

On Defense I would keep the following but am not sure exactly what the pairings would be. So like most others I would have Gio, Wides, TJB, O'b, Russle and Smith. My 7th would likely be Billings. If we lost Butler in waivers I would not be upset but if he went down it might light a fire for him to improve his game.

In net I would keep Ramo and Berra. Sending Mcbackup down to help Ortio.

I doubt this would be my team at the end of the season or even throughout the season as I suspect the team will be getting a regular shuffle of players from Abbotsford. I suspect that we will see players like Granlund, Ferland, Rhino, Jorris brought up for extended periods if others falter or get injured. On D Cundari, Breen and Ramage will also get plenty of chances if Smith, Russle, Billings or OB falter. I also suspect that we see 4 of our 5 goalies play at least 5 games each this year unless Ramo proves he is the man.

We will likely move Cammi, Stajin and Stemp by the trade deadline and see the influx of the NCAA players at the end of the season. This line up will be as competitive as a line up trying to add post apex or injury prone UFA's would be while seeing development of our young prospects. We will then have a better idea of what we need to draft and what 1-3 free agents we need to add for next season. This season needs to be about player evaluation and development.

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#14 Scary Gary
September 21 2013, 07:38PM
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I could live with bringing some key vets in if we thought we could flip them at the deadline.

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#15 Jibmeister
September 23 2013, 07:30AM
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Cory Sarich led the Avs in ice time last night.

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#16 SVENSANITY
September 21 2013, 11:08AM
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I agree with the majority of comments. There's really no UFA's that are worth wasting money or time on this season. Why move to finish in 9 or 10 or 11th. Unless a UFA makes this team a playoff team there is no reason to sign them. The only time you should ever sign a mediocre UFA is if you have a specific role that needs to be filled prior to the playoffs. Outside of a young UFA who might be around for a while these UFA's don't make this team that much better and so its a waste of money and time.

It's my personal opinion that Granlund and Ferland have all earned a look this year even ahead of Roman Horak.

I would probably role with the following: Fowards: Camy - Stajan - Sven/Hudler Stepniak - Backlund - GlenX Sven/Hudler - Gallardi - D. Jones Granlund - Knight - Ferland/Jackman (energy line)

Rotating in: Jackman, McRotten (When needed) Maybe send Granlund or Ferland to Abby and give Monahan a few games. If Monahan is significantly amazing keep him if he is at risk of not getting minutes and not imposing himself send him back to Ottawa and bring up Ferland or Granlund or Horak.

Defence: Here is where I'd Make one improvement. I'd try and trade for the rights to Franson.

I'd play Gio - Franson Wideman - Brodie Wotherspoon - O'Brien Russel or Butler rotating in.

In net: Role with Ramo/Berra and Mac. If Ramo or Berra find it difficult call up Ortio (had an outstanding camp and I have to say he looked positionally the best out of the 3 he also seems hungry to prove himself Personally if they hadn't given Ramo and berra all that money i'd be rolling with him but w/e).

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#17 EugeneV
September 21 2013, 10:44PM
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I don't care where Monahan plays as long as he is playing all situations and getting 15 min/gm and plays in the WJHC.

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#18 FireOnIce
September 21 2013, 11:23AM
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Justin Azevedo wrote:

the plan is to tread water this year, sell at the deadline and get mcdavid in 2015

I'm all for this plan. However, I'm afraid that if they tread water enough to finish, say, 15-20, that ownership will start up with the whole "one piece away from the Cup" bit again and try to go for it in 2015.

Place 15-20 in 2014, overpay for some higher-end, veteran talent, and then finish 15-20 in 2015. Missing out on McDavid completely.

One can only hope they don't screw this one up.

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#19 cunning_linguist
September 21 2013, 01:09PM
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Glencross - Stajan - Stempniak

Baertschi - Backlund - Cammalleri

Hudler - Monahan - D. Jones

Horak - Knight - Galiardi

Bouma

Giordano - Brodie

Wideman - Russel

O'Brien - *Rotating spot

*(let guys like Ramage, Sieloff, Wotherspoon, Cundari etc... get few games a piece)

ONLY if Monahan continues to perform above replacement level, otherwise send him back down. If he can handle it though, roll the first 3 lines with relatively equal minutes, get Monahan 13-15 mins per night. All the rhetoric about letting his ELC slide a year is BS. Assuming he follows a standard player development curve (ie: he is better in year 4 than in year 3 of his career), sliding his ELC an extra year will just mean that he signs his second contract after his draft+4 year instead of his draft+3. Logically, if he does develop successfully, his 2nd contract would be for more money if signed 4 years in vs 3 years in.

In other words, sure you'll get a bargain year of Monahan at $1,775,000 (or whatever it is) if you slide his ELC, but logic would dictate he'll be a better player in draft+4 vs draft+3. A 2nd contract with any kind of term will erode this ELC bargain pretty easily.

So forget the economics. Do what's best for his development. Give him minutes, give him situations and give him an environment appropriate to his level of play (we'll know what this is after 9 games).

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#20 coachedpotatoe
September 21 2013, 01:34PM
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It seems that the vast majority of today's comments are in favour of the rebuild without buying into the Free agent market. Where many of us differ is whether we would have vets with vets or vets and kids together. This rebuild may take awhile but there indeed may be some sound pieces going forward. The glaring weakness is the lack of elite forwards but that has been true for quite awhile. Hopefully drafting the next two seasons will improve this as might selective free agency in the future.

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#21 calgarytough
September 21 2013, 01:43PM
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My lines with what we currently have, but if i had it my way hudler and butler would be moved for a defenceman more capable of playing in my top 6 than smith FORWARDS Cammalleri /Stajan / Jones. Glencross / Galiardi / Stempniak. Baertschi / Monahan / Hudler. Ferland / Backlund / McGrattan. Jackman / Bouma. DEFENSEMEN Brodie / Giordano. Wideman / Russell. Smith / O'Brien. Butler. GOALTENDERS Ramo MacDonald. ANY BODY HAVE ANY UPDATES FROM CAMP TODAY???

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#22 Kevin R
September 21 2013, 02:18PM
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I have to throw my hat in the absolutely no to any UFA's camp. No no no no. Only veterans we add will be a salary dump & have a 1st or 2nd rounder coming our way attached to it.

1/Glencross Backlund Cammi

2/Sven Monahan(if earned***)Hudler

3/Jones Stajan Stemps

4/Knight Bouma Jackman Mcgrit

Gio/Brodie

Wideman/Russell

SOB/Wotherspoon Butler/Ramage

Ramo/Berra

I definitely see a rotating lineup based on performance & injuries during the year.

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#23 mattyc
September 21 2013, 07:52PM
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@Jeff In Lethbridge

I agree we should be focused on developing a contender, but I'm unconvinced tanking (or trying to tank) helps meet that end.

-Players aren't going to (and shouldn't) mail it.

-There will be lots of surprises/injuries (good and bad).

-There's too much parity in the league to guarantee sucking (moreover, having Monahan stay vs. go back to junior isn't going to measurably change those odds).

- We know that being really bad involves a lot of luck as well as a bad team.

All this makes me think that you shouldn't be actively trying to suck, because even that is unlikely to get you that high pick. You play out the games trying to win. I wouldn't go as far to say you start signing the Simon Gagnes of the world, but by just throwing in the season you're not really doing yourself any good. All kinds of surprises happen during the season - 2004 kind of came out of the blue (we didn't even have good goaltending to start the year!). Maybe Ramo comes out and is awesome, maybe some young guys come in and light it up. Maybe everything goes the other way - but actively trying to tank isn't the answer because it may not work anyways.

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#24 exsanguinator
September 21 2013, 09:12PM
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SVENSANITY wrote:

Just as a side note I think in a full 82 Game Schedule the junior kids actually have 11 games. Everyone is saying 9. But it was only 9 last year because of the 48 game schedule i thought.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are wrong. It is nine games in a full season before the ELC kicks in. Last season it was only 4-5 games.

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#25 Clyde
September 21 2013, 09:22PM
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I hope the captains C means more than what you think it does. It sure did when I played and it sure does to the teams I coach

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#26 Baalzamon
September 22 2013, 11:04PM
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@jai kiran

That depends on where in 2009 Rex is referring to. In the 2008/09 season, the Flames were a legitimately elite team sunk by terrible goaltending (a then career-worst season from Kipper). Had Kiprusoff been injured, they would have acquired a cheap, decent replacement. Hopefully. In that case, they would have beaten Chicago in the First round.

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#27 ChinookArch
September 21 2013, 07:35AM
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JA

I see Sean Monahan does not make your team this year (good). Now prepare yourself for the vitriol.

Beloch's comments about goaltending are similar to mine, but it really bothers me that the team should has to purposefully suck. Unfortunately, the last thing the Flames need is a .93 goalie over the next 2 season.

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#29 Jeff In Lethbridge
September 21 2013, 02:11PM
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calgarytough wrote:

My lines with what we currently have, but if i had it my way hudler and butler would be moved for a defenceman more capable of playing in my top 6 than smith FORWARDS Cammalleri /Stajan / Jones. Glencross / Galiardi / Stempniak. Baertschi / Monahan / Hudler. Ferland / Backlund / McGrattan. Jackman / Bouma. DEFENSEMEN Brodie / Giordano. Wideman / Russell. Smith / O'Brien. Butler. GOALTENDERS Ramo MacDonald. ANY BODY HAVE ANY UPDATES FROM CAMP TODAY???

I like the idea of Monahan staying as well.. assuming he acquits himself well in the first 9 games. all he has to do is be average - why waste a year of development in Jr's if he can handle the NHL and his development curve is sped up.

people say he will suffer playing 5 minutes a night on the fourth line, but THAT is only true if the team focuses on trying to make the playoffs and plays him on the fourth line... instead of focusing on youth development for the future. rotate the young guys in and out all year, let em learn.

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#30 mattyc
September 21 2013, 03:42PM
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Guys... Butler isn't *that* bad. He'll have a bounce-back year and be a serviceable 5th D.

Glencross - Stajan - Stempniak

Baertschi - Backlund - Cammalleri

Hudler - Galiardi - D. Jones

Horak - Bouma - Jackman/McGratton

Giordano - Brodie

Wideman - Russel

Butler - O'Brien (Smith)

Ramo/MacDonald

We'll be sunk by crappy goaltending this year - which will be like last year, except we won't expect better because we won't have Kipper. I don't think there's room for Monahan or Knight. Maybe one beats out Bouma or Horak, but I kinda doubt they'll play Monahan on the 4th line.

Two other points:

1. Sucking this year (and/or next year) /= being good later.

2. There shouldn't be different rules for Monahan making the team (must play top 9 etc.) than for Knight, Baertschi, Horak etc. Either you can help the team win, or you can't.

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#31 Jeff In Lethbridge
September 21 2013, 08:08PM
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mattyc wrote:

I agree we should be focused on developing a contender, but I'm unconvinced tanking (or trying to tank) helps meet that end.

-Players aren't going to (and shouldn't) mail it.

-There will be lots of surprises/injuries (good and bad).

-There's too much parity in the league to guarantee sucking (moreover, having Monahan stay vs. go back to junior isn't going to measurably change those odds).

- We know that being really bad involves a lot of luck as well as a bad team.

All this makes me think that you shouldn't be actively trying to suck, because even that is unlikely to get you that high pick. You play out the games trying to win. I wouldn't go as far to say you start signing the Simon Gagnes of the world, but by just throwing in the season you're not really doing yourself any good. All kinds of surprises happen during the season - 2004 kind of came out of the blue (we didn't even have good goaltending to start the year!). Maybe Ramo comes out and is awesome, maybe some young guys come in and light it up. Maybe everything goes the other way - but actively trying to tank isn't the answer because it may not work anyways.

I am not sure anyone is saying "suck on purpose", but with the goalies we have, rookies etc, it just is what it is... and playing young guys in bigger roles then you would if you were a contender isn't sucking on purpose, it is taking a course of development.

Or, we could bring in a better goalie and grab a few veterans, and NOT give our young guys priority ice time, and finish around 18-20, and draft poorly, all for what?

options"

I am just not sure what your goal would be... why try to eek out 10 more wins by not developing our guys?

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#32 mattyc
September 21 2013, 08:40PM
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@Jeff In Lethbridge

goal is to win every game. I'm not advocating stopgap measures. All I'm saying is if you're humming and hawwing as a coaching staff over Monahan/Knight/Horak/whoever you ice the best lineup you can. If you decide Flames + Monahan > Flames + (Monahan replacement) then you do it. You don't spend the offseason trying to plan for the next draft because so much can change in a season (luck + unexpected development). I think the development thing is a little overblown personally, and the whole drafting McDavid or Ekblad or Reinhart etc. is a bit of a pipe-dream.

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#33 Jeff In Lethbridge
September 22 2013, 08:11AM
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mattyc wrote:

goal is to win every game. I'm not advocating stopgap measures. All I'm saying is if you're humming and hawwing as a coaching staff over Monahan/Knight/Horak/whoever you ice the best lineup you can. If you decide Flames + Monahan > Flames + (Monahan replacement) then you do it. You don't spend the offseason trying to plan for the next draft because so much can change in a season (luck + unexpected development). I think the development thing is a little overblown personally, and the whole drafting McDavid or Ekblad or Reinhart etc. is a bit of a pipe-dream.

you say your not advocating stop gap measures, but then you like the idea of bringing in better goalies and UFA's?

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#34 mattyc
September 22 2013, 11:53AM
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@Jeff In Lethbridge

- It's never OK to resign/accept sucking

- Sucking now is not going to equal drafting well and not sucking later. There's too much uncertainty involved in it for it to be viewed (IMHO of course) as a legitimate strategy.

That's all I'm trying to say.

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#35 Captain Ron
September 22 2013, 01:24PM
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Lets leave Gagne, Gilbert and Bryzgalov (WTF??????) at home shall we.

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#36 Rockmorton65
September 23 2013, 12:07AM
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A couple thoughts for everyone in the "tank for 2 and draft McDavid" camp...

1) If that is the plan, then we are essentially putting the rebuild on hold for two years. Why would someone like Gaudreau sign with us, if that's the case? We have no plans to be competitive for the next 5 years or so, we're not looking to have anyone perform or develop at anything above replacement level ( cuz that would mess up "the McDavid plan"), but sign with us and we can promise you...lots of ice time. No prospect worth anything is going to commit to an organization like that. Same with FA's.

2) Even if the Flames finish dead last in 2014, there's no guarantee we get 1st overall. There's a very good chance that we could be the worst team in the league and draft 2nd overall. What then? Think of it this way. Imagine you have ten glasses of water in front of you. Eight are poisoned and will kill you, two will not. Pick one. The Flames have about the same odds of drafting McFranchise if they finish last. Not worth the risk in my opinion. Not only will we have missed out on McDavid, but will have pissed away the opportunity to develop Baertchi, Monahan, Poirier, and anyone else who is on the verge of making a difference in the NHL.

The rebuild has begun. Start at game one and build a culture of hard work and a desire to win. Let the chips fall where they may. Have one more year of trading a couple vets at the deadline that don't fit into the future. Next year, bring in Poirier, Gaudreau, Gilles and whoever else may be ready. Suddenly you're rolling with a solid young core - sprinkle with a few shrewd FA signings/trades (not 30 plus, but players who fit the long term plans) and this team is well on its way to becoming a contender.

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#37 Rockmorton65
September 23 2013, 09:35AM
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@Jeff In Lethbridge

I see two distinct ideologies here.

One is that we shouldn't try to win too many games for the next few years or we'll miss out on Ekblad/McDavid, which is our only chance at being a cup contender.

What I'm saying is to ice the best team possible and create a culture that tries to win right now. Improve the team when you can, as long as you don't mortgage the future to do it. I'm hoping this team is significantly better at game 82 than at game 1.

Does that clear it up? I honestly believe this team has the opportunity to be better than last year. I think forming a new culture/identity and the energy it creates will more than make up for the loss of Iggy, Bouw and Tangs.

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#38 Jeff In Lethbridge
September 21 2013, 10:23AM
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Primo wrote:

Your strategy includes a mix of free agent vets and developing young talent. That will assure you a 15-20 place finish and no chance at some top draft potential. Now what did that accomplish?

Provide Flames fans with an energetic young hard working team and they will be happy. Especially at the next 2 drafts we will stock up on more Monahan's. That is what this franchise needs.

Park your dream of making the playoffs for a couple of years..that story line is boring.

exactly - why waste time bringing in MORE aged vets??? in fact, there are already too many vets on this team by 3 or 4.

make room for young guys to develop and have a chance to prove themselves while building through the draft...

For years, i never missed a game... but by last year, i was PVR'ing the games and fast-forwarding through them... give me more crap like we've had for 3+ years, and I wont even bother with the PVR.

As a Flames fan i will have a lot of patience and commitment for a team that focus' on development and rebuilding, but if this team would turn the corner and try to shortcut the process by adding aged vets to "go for it now" and give us more of the crap hockey we've been subjected to for several years... they will lose my support.

the LAST thing i want to watch is more vets cherry picking, circling by the blue line while they leave their teams mates out-manned in the D zone. this infuriated me, and Iggy and Tangs were the worst - and he (Iggy) openly refused to play the system being taught! I loved Iggy, but this is unacceptable.

Develop young talent, draft high for a couple years... and play the guys that work every night... and the fans will be with you.

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#39 Jeff In Lethbridge
September 21 2013, 05:45PM
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@mattyc

help make the team win?

I beg to differ...

its not about helping the team win (to a less then top 10-15 pick), it about development into a contender in the future.

he can play 2nd or 3rd line and not help us win and we still "win" if his development is progressed or even sped up.

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#40 SeanCharles
September 21 2013, 05:55PM
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If I could be coach and GM I'd love to roll with this:

Glencross-Galiardi-Stempniak

Baertschi-Backlund-Jones

Cammalleri-Monahan-Hudler

Bouma-Horak-Knight

Jackman/McGrattan

Brodie-Giordano

Russell-Wideman

O'Brien-Breen

Butler

Ramo Berra

I'd trade Stajan, we have alot of center prospects in the system.

But Stajan will remain and will bump one of Horak, Knight or Monahan off this team. Smith will probably be here and bump Breen, Cundari, Ramage etc down the defensive depth charts.

In my opinion players like Smith, Butler, Jackman, Stajan, MacDonald are not on this team next year. Possibly also Cammy and Stemp in that group also depending on how things turn out.

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#41 mattyc
September 21 2013, 07:54PM
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Scary Gary wrote:

I could live with bringing some key vets in if we thought we could flip them at the deadline.

Yeah - I'm not sure Bryzgalov would be such a bad signing on a one year deal. Someone to play some games if Ramo sucks. We already know MacDonald is really average. Might as well have some insurance and then hopefully catch a contender with goalie troubles at the deadline.

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#42 coachedpotatoe
September 22 2013, 12:40PM
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The Oilers Shot Clock wrote:

Welcome to Club Acceptance. You will notice that with every membership comes a free set of magnifying glasses so you can find personal victories and success stories in some very hard to find places. I'm assuming you have all read our club newsletter entitled "Draft Lottery - Your New Stanley". Please check your coat at the door, we've been saving you a table up at the front for a few years now. Our bandwagon taxi service won't be by for atleast 3 years, so please get comfortable and enjoy the show.

No malice intended. The B.O.A belongs in the playoffs. With the new format we might see it every year again. Get the picks, get good, and then lose to us. Our windows should overlap nicely

I have decided to look at the Oilers' draft history as a response to your hope for a return of the Battle of Alberta. (it took my old brain awhile to process what BOA meant) The Oilers' have drafted in the top 10 every year since 2007 except once. In 2007 you had 3 first round picks that were very much like ours this year(a bit better actually) and have had the good fortune to have three number 1's in a row which should put your team in a situation to be competitive immediately. hopefully we can return to respectability sooner than the 7 drafts it has taken the Oilers'. The best part of the Oiler's rebuild was they realized their need to rebuild sooner than Flames ownership did by about two years. I yearn for the years of competitive playoff hockey between us buy am not sure it will soon. If it takes us as long as the Oilers did all your stars may be just about finished their 7 year deals. It will be interesting to see if your squad has done enough this year to make the playoffs. Have fun cheering for your team, I will have fun watching my team develop it's young players and approach our rebuild with great expectations.

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#43 Clyde
September 22 2013, 03:37PM
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MangoTanker wrote:

Meh, you don't need to be captain of a team to be a leader on it. There are lots of guys who don't wear the C for their team that are considered The Leader of that team. Kopitar, St.Louis, Gorges, etc.

Who said u do?

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#44 jai kiran
September 22 2013, 08:25PM
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So Zack Kassian broke Sam Gagner's jaw last night and he's out indefinitely. Dallas Eakins is gonna have to be some kind of magician to avoid a disaster in October without either his 1st or 2nd line center.

They should trade us a 2nd and a prospect for Stajan: just the short term fix they need! What do you say Rex?

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#45 RexLibris
September 22 2013, 10:10PM
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More likely MacTavish tries to sign someone like Wellwood on the cheap (around $1 million) to plug the hole.

Some are speculating that Eberle could be tried at center, but I would prefer not. Moving one winger to the middle is enough already.

Until they can find another top six center, be it by trade or free-agency, it'll mean Arcobello gets back into the mix for the time being.

Perron plays LW and they don't have the depth to move him over. Omark is a LW as well and is a far cry from a viable candidate for the middle.

The Oilers also don't have a 2nd round pick to move after the Perron deal, so I don't think Stajan will be coming north anytime soon. ;)

Suspect Gagner could return around December, maybe January depending on his off-ice regimen and weight. Nugent-Hopkins is marked for Nov. 1 to return. October is going to be a long month, however, injuries can be a blessing.

With luck it will force the organization to address a need.

Think of it this way, what if Kiprusoff had gone down with a bad back or knee surgery for a few months back in 2009? Or Iginla suffered a long-term injury around the same time? It would have forced the team to address a need and any resulting weaknesses of the team would have had to have been addressed by management, rather than stubbornly continuing on.

It might have provided the proverbial ounce of prevention to save the pound of cure in which the franchise is currently mired.

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#46 Jeff In Lethbridge
September 23 2013, 08:34AM
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Rockmorton65 wrote:

A couple thoughts for everyone in the "tank for 2 and draft McDavid" camp...

1) If that is the plan, then we are essentially putting the rebuild on hold for two years. Why would someone like Gaudreau sign with us, if that's the case? We have no plans to be competitive for the next 5 years or so, we're not looking to have anyone perform or develop at anything above replacement level ( cuz that would mess up "the McDavid plan"), but sign with us and we can promise you...lots of ice time. No prospect worth anything is going to commit to an organization like that. Same with FA's.

2) Even if the Flames finish dead last in 2014, there's no guarantee we get 1st overall. There's a very good chance that we could be the worst team in the league and draft 2nd overall. What then? Think of it this way. Imagine you have ten glasses of water in front of you. Eight are poisoned and will kill you, two will not. Pick one. The Flames have about the same odds of drafting McFranchise if they finish last. Not worth the risk in my opinion. Not only will we have missed out on McDavid, but will have pissed away the opportunity to develop Baertchi, Monahan, Poirier, and anyone else who is on the verge of making a difference in the NHL.

The rebuild has begun. Start at game one and build a culture of hard work and a desire to win. Let the chips fall where they may. Have one more year of trading a couple vets at the deadline that don't fit into the future. Next year, bring in Poirier, Gaudreau, Gilles and whoever else may be ready. Suddenly you're rolling with a solid young core - sprinkle with a few shrewd FA signings/trades (not 30 plus, but players who fit the long term plans) and this team is well on its way to becoming a contender.

You start off by criticizing the "tank for 2" crowd, but then you confuse me as your recipe sounds like everyone else's - i.e. develop the young guys and trade away a couple vets in the fall. This is exactly what the people whom you refer to as "tank for 2" people are advocating... so I am confused.

Either your a "tank for 2" person, or maybe the reality is everyone is saying the same thing. With your recipe - they will have a poor showing in the standings for a couple years, doesn't mean they are trying to do it - it will just happen with all the young players.

maybe your "tank for 2" guys are really straw men

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#47 RexLibris
September 23 2013, 10:40AM
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The Flames roster is so full of young players and a few grizzled veterans that I don't think they will be able to do much else but give most every game "their all".

I think sometimes we as fans forget the intense level of competitiveness required to even get a shot at the NHL, let alone land a roster spot. That doesn't just go away in one or two seasons unless there are serious character deficiencies already existing.

The debate about whether the Flames should tank or not shouldn't be focusing on what the players do, but rather what management does.

Creating a winning culture only comes from winning. The Flames may not be the worst this season, but one needs to face facts that they are highly unlikely to be creating a winning culture this season.

Creating a competitive and accountable culture, however, is another matter. That can be done in even the most trying circumstances. That is what the Flames need to do so that even in a loss the level of competition and camaraderie does not fall too far.

The players, though, need the backing of management so that when injuries occur they aren't embraced as excuses to help sink a team - case in point: last year when the Oilers lost Belanger, Horcoff and Lander to injury and Tambellini did nothing, not even claim Jussi Jokinen off waivers. That was gross dereliction of his responsibility and was one of the principle reasons that he was let go.

The Flames can expect to lose quite a few games this season, but they can still be noble in defeat and remain pragmatic about their season. It has been "all or nothing" amongst the franchise and fans for so long it may take some time to become accustomed to other measures.

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#48 BJ
September 21 2013, 12:09PM
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I would start with:

Baertshi Backlund Cammilleri Glencross Stajan Hudler Jones Galiardi Stempniak (Speedster line) Bouma Jones Jackman/Mcgrit

It looks kinda ugly but it balances the need to develop our young players and allow our veterans to raise their stock for our sell-off at the draft. This would allow Horak and Knight to play top 6 minutes in Abbotsford this season. Further to that you could rotate Horak and Knight out of the lineup: When Horak is in Abbotsford, Knight is on the 4th line and vice versa.

When it is time for the sell-off, if we are trading a roster player without taking one back then I would want someone in Abbotsford ready to step up even if it is just a depth role.

If all goes well:

Stajan gets moved for a 2nd/3rd. Jackman, Jones, Butler are shopped... hopefully one of them raises their stock enough to garner say a 5th rounder to replace the one for Russell.

One of or both ofCammilleri/Stempniak is moved. It would be nice to get a player back if they are both moved though. Drew Stafford is someone I would look at. I wonder if Minnesota would part with someone like Granlund to immediately improve their team at the deadline.

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#49 Baalzamon
September 21 2013, 05:14PM
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@calgarytough

"Ferland / Backlund / McGrattan"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlbARlVyRAc

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#50 SVENSANITY
September 21 2013, 05:52PM
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Just as a side note I think in a full 82 Game Schedule the junior kids actually have 11 games. Everyone is saying 9. But it was only 9 last year because of the 48 game schedule i thought.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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