Five things: Things I have recently considered

Ryan Lambert
September 26 2013 08:31AM

1. So Sieloff's going pro

It was announced earlier this week that Patrick Sieloff would not return to juniors as some might have expected, and that the club will instead exercise its option to either keep him in Calgary or send him down to the AHL.

This is something I generally think is a good idea, and one that will be very conducive to the continual growing of Sieloff's game. My suspicion, based on nothing but what I've seen in the preseason and historical precedent, is that Sieloff will indeed be one of the young players to get several games in the big league to assess where he's at against full-on NHL talent when games matter at least a little bit, and then he'll be shipped to the AHL where he can get bigger minutes.

The reason I think it's a good idea is basically two-fold: First, he's 19, but won't be 20 until May, long after the Flames and probably the Heat will have been eliminated from the postseason, but his style of game isn't necessarily conducive to being any more successful in junior hockey than it already is. He, like Sean Monahan, was on a not-good team last year, but still only managed 11 points. He's not going to score a lot ever, is basically the point, no matter how many minutes he's given. What he does, instead, is hit, and hit hard, and hit often.

Lighting up 16-year-olds in the OHL is something with which Sieloff has proven exceptionally adept, and thus does not require any additional training at. Lighting up men? Playing sound positional defensive hockey? These are skills that must be honed against adults for him to have much success at the NHL level and, given the blue line depth in Abbotsford, I'd say that he'll be getting pretty hefty minutes there. I mean, how many of these guys are even Flames property with a chance of being in the NHL? Mark Cundari and that's it? They can prioritize Sieloff's development there, and that's for the better, for all involved.

2. The fundamental difference between this and Monahan

Now I know what you're thinking, if you're particularly opposed to my point of view on the prospect of keeping Sean Monahan with the big club — which by the way the Flames seem remarkably inclined to do despite it being a terrible idea. "Why is keeping this guy in the pros a good idea and doing the same with Monahan a bad one?"

Again, Sieloff can be sent to the AHL, where he can get big minutes against pros. My understanding is that Monahan cannot. If he could get anything approximating the kind of minutes he would get in the OHL in the AHL, then I think it would be worth starting his ELC clock. I honestly do. Again, it's the difference between getting 20 minutes a night in a lower league or between 12 and 15 in the world's best. The point some of you have made about his being able to dominate kids in the OHL, and thus having little else to prove, is not an invalid, but it also doesn't overwhelm the fact that he needs minutes more than stiffer competition. If he could find a medium between the two in the AHL, that would be the best possible situation for all involved. But he can't, so why bother paying him and keeping him on the bench for 75-80 percent of a game?

3. Mike Cammalleri's status

I don't know if it's just fodder or based on anything in particular he's heard — and given the author, I'd be inclined to suspect it's the former — but Eric Francis had a pretty good piece on what the future holds for Mike Cammalleri, in which it is said, point blank, that it's "extremely unlikely" that he's around at the end of the season.

That makes a lot of sense, obviously. Big-money player, bad team, post-apex as Jay Feaster likes to say, and someone who can theoretically help a contender looking for top-six(ish) help. Cammalleri also seemed cagey on the issue, and the article suggested he's loath to talk about it going forward, but it's going to come up a lot this season. A lot lot. Especially if he's good, and even if he's not. He's as good as gone as far as I'm concerned, and that's how it should be.

4. The Flames and the NHL crackdown on thugs

One thing that I took from this latest run at the ability of the "Supergoon" to do his job was that this comes at a not-very-good time for the Flames. They recently hired Brian Burke, and there was a decent amount of chatter in the last week about the importance of this kind of player. Brian McGrattan training Keegan Kanzig in the fistic arts, etc.

Then yesterday morning, there was a note from ESPN's Craig Custance that it's believed a majority of NHL GMs are opposed to this kind of player's existence in the league, and that there will likely be a move to ban most fighting from the game. I'm for that, on general principal, because the only fights that will happen will be those that "need to" happen. When guys are willing to eat a game suspension to defend a teammate from a particularly injurious hit, or whatever, the game will be better because there will be fewer useless players in the league and thus on Calgary's roster, or that of any other teams. Of course, that's bad news for the Flames, philosophically, in the short-term.

5. The goaltending situation

I saw something about how Reto Berra is now about to make his final push for a roster spot in the stretch run of training camp and it makes sense to me on a logical level: How much is there, really, separating Karri Ramo, who looks for all the world to be the presumptive No. 1 in Calgary despite not having been in the NHL for a few years, and Laurent Brossoit, who's currently the backup in Abbotsford and awaiting a demotion to the ECHL when Berra's final fate is figured out?

There's really not a lot of stratification here. The drop between Ramo and Joey MacDonald has to be relatively minor in the team's eyes (hence the latter's one-way deal signed as a kind of insurance policy late last season), but if Berra's still trying out for a job, he can't be that far behind MacDonald. Joni Ortio and Brossoit, meanwhile, both seem promising enough to warrant consideration for at least splitting time at the AHL level, but the rookie seems the more likely ECHL starter.

I don't know if this says the team's organizational goaltending depth is really solid or really mediocre, though.

Around the Nation

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Yer ol' buddy Lambert is handsome and great and everyone loves him. Also you can visit his regular blog at The Two-Line Pass or follow him on Twitter. Lucky you!
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#1 SydScout
September 26 2013, 08:59AM
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Lambert - nice article.

Two things - Sieloff point one, yes yes and yes. He needs attention at the highest order and he assumes a certain mantle of being a young pro. That kind of player, with a high quality pedigree yet few games, is a good shot at the big time. Have at it.

Secondly, Berra is a shot in the dark but my oh my is Ramo in the same boat. If he's league average, ace. If better, massive upside but otherwise he'll be crucified by this forum if what I saw about Kanzig was any indication following his drafting.

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#2 Colin.S
September 26 2013, 09:00AM
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Re point 5, situation is mediocre at best, 4 unproven goalies and McBackup, don't know how anyone can call that Solid, even on a good day. I think there is lots of potential, however that is all it is right now, potential. I'll wait till the regular season has a few games in it before I can call even close to Solid.

I also think Camm would prefer to stay in Calgary as he has it pretty good here and the fan base generally seems to really like him, however there is zero place for him here on this team at this time. He will be moved because he has to be, it makes no sense to resign a player going the wrong way of thirty. Than again, it made little to no sense to sign Wideman either, so who knows.

Agree on both points with Monahan and Seiloff, the problem would be easily remedied if we could send Monahan to the AHL, but those great rules the CHL has.

And for the final point on goons, the NHL needs a ton less of them, course we just hired the one guy in the NHL who seems to think that a team can never have enough of them. And is McGratton really "training" Kanzig in the art of face punching? REALLY?!?! Why even bother using the third rounder on him then? I read a theory that the Flames had thought that the Victoria WHL team is garbage and they didn't want to send Kanzig back there because it would hurt him even more, but if they are keeping him here simply for McGratton to give face punching lessons, ugh.

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#3 Scott
September 26 2013, 09:11AM
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You say that the main reason that you don't want monahan on the flames roster this season is that he won't be getting enough minutes. I just wanted to point out that during the second intermission of last nights game there was an interview of Feaster in which he stated that if Monahan stays with the team this year then he will be getting top minutes, over 15 a night. They want him to be able to utilize his skill set. This kind of makes your argument invalid IMO. If his development is best suited for the OHL, then he should play there. If how development is best suited for the NHL, then he should play there. End of story, ELC be damned (IMO).

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#4 Scott
September 26 2013, 09:14AM
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@Colin.S

Pretty sure they arnt keeping Kanzig around "just to give him face punching lessons". Interview with kanzig just mentioned that he worked on it a bit with grats because he wants to get better in every aspect of his game.

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#5 Baalzamon
September 26 2013, 09:20AM
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"I mean, how many of these guys are even Flames property with a chance of being in the NHL? Mark Cundari and that's it?"

Erm... unless you mean "with a chance of being in the NHL THIS SEASON" I have to point out Tyler Wotherspoon and John Ramage. And Chris Breen, depending on who you ask.

Regarding the rest of the guys, though, I definitely see Sieloff as one of the better fellows around. I mean, Zach Davies? Really? Did the Flames not notice how useless he was in Penticton?

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#6 Colin.S
September 26 2013, 09:29AM
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Scott wrote:

Pretty sure they arnt keeping Kanzig around "just to give him face punching lessons". Interview with kanzig just mentioned that he worked on it a bit with grats because he wants to get better in every aspect of his game.

That's the LAST aspect of his game that should be worked on, and the fact he thinks it's important or anyone thinks face punching lessons is important doesn't have his best interests in mind.

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#7 Kenta
September 26 2013, 09:39AM
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I'd support the Sieloff move if he had demonstrated that he is head and shoulders above other defensive prospects we have and is ready to make the jump. From what I have seen, he hasn't. His game is pretty unbalanced at times as he likes to make the big exclamation mark hit (and get injured in the process). This is often at the expense of defensive responsibilities (shades of Dion). I would have thought this is exactly why he needs to spend more time in junior to round out his game.

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#8 Scary Gary
September 26 2013, 09:41AM
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Cammi is only 31 and is definitely a top six player; if he can stay healthy he'll get the minutes in his contract year to show he's still a top performer and thus give us a solid return.

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#9 Michael
September 26 2013, 09:51AM
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I'm glad theres finally some talk supporting younger players moving to the pros without this stupid ELC talk. With any players development (elite or not elite) if he shows mentally that he's outgrown whatever league he's in, then its time to move on. Contract status and money shouldn't have anything thing to do with it.

The only way to judge if a player has mentally outgrown their league is to know them, work with them, and see how they handle themselves. That's way teams hire staff and coaches!

Clearly Sieloff showed this, and It looks like Monohan is showing this.

Thank you for not throwing the Calgary Management and coaching staff under the bus in this article, it's refreshing and nice to read.

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#10 Vowswithin
September 26 2013, 09:51AM
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Can someone explain the NHL CHL agreement? What I am curious about is if Monahans ELC k

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#11 Vowswithin
September 26 2013, 09:52AM
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K

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#12 McRib
September 26 2013, 09:53AM
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Nice Article, I agree wholeheartedly with everything (especially Patrick Sieloff topic). Which to be honest is concerning what’s happened to our ol' buddy Lambert?!?!

People have beaten the Sean Monahan topic to death, so I'll try to keep it short. At this point I would keep Monahan because he can win a damn faceoff, I think faceoffs are the most overrated stat in the NHL and they are discussed at far greater lengths than they ever should be. But the Flames have been so atrocious at faceoffs for so long it’s significant!!

Sean Monahan is going to be a player no matter if he plays in the NHL or OHL this year, but the fact that he can win a faceoff makes me think he would end up getting enough ice time (because of that fact alone) to make his NHL stay viable. I just can't see our top faceoff man playing less than 10-15 minutes a night, which he seems to have become already in the preseason.

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#13 Colin.S
September 26 2013, 09:55AM
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@Vowswithin

Players who enter through the CHLs draft or start their "pro" careers or whatever through the CHL can not leave the CHL for the AHL until they are 20 years old, they can go directly to the NHL, but those players have to be assigned back to the CHL and not the AHL even if they played more than the 9 games at the NHL level. Players that come from Europe or through a US system are exempt from that requirement and that's why Seiloff doesn't have to go back to junior this year.

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#14 Rockmorton65
September 26 2013, 09:59AM
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Colin.S wrote:

That's the LAST aspect of his game that should be worked on, and the fact he thinks it's important or anyone thinks face punching lessons is important doesn't have his best interests in mind.

Actually I think it's a great opportunity. When he goes back to junior/minors, then he can work on things like skating. If fighting is going to be something he brings to the table, why not get some pointers from one of the best in the biz?

Plus, "pointers" could very easily mean a 10 minute chat in the locker room after practise. Doesn't mean they used actual practise time to work on face punching.

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#15 vowswithin
September 26 2013, 09:59AM
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Can someone explain the NHL CHL agreement? What I am curious about is if Monahans ELC kicks in (plays 10 games) can he then go to the AHL?

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#16 Colin.S
September 26 2013, 10:02AM
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vowswithin wrote:

Can someone explain the NHL CHL agreement? What I am curious about is if Monahans ELC kicks in (plays 10 games) can he then go to the AHL?

No, it wouldn't be till his third year in his ELC he would be allowed to go to the AHL as per the agreement.

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#17 vowswithin
September 26 2013, 10:02AM
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Thanks Colin, my phone was being a dick and I couldn't get it out very easy... had to switch to the computer. Too bad about the rules kinda blows.

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#18 McRib
September 26 2013, 10:04AM
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@vowswithin

Nope Sean Monahan cannot go to the AHL this season or next. Similar to what Buffalo had to do with Mikhail Grigorenko the Flames would burn a year of the ELC and have to send him back to the OHL if he wasn't staying with the big club.

It's a rule between the CHL & NHL, the reason Pat Sieloff is exempt is he was drafted out of the US National Team Program who like the NCAA has no such rule. Hence why Winnipeg is getting Jacob Trouba this year.

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#19 Colin.S
September 26 2013, 10:06AM
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Rockmorton65 wrote:

Actually I think it's a great opportunity. When he goes back to junior/minors, then he can work on things like skating. If fighting is going to be something he brings to the table, why not get some pointers from one of the best in the biz?

Plus, "pointers" could very easily mean a 10 minute chat in the locker room after practise. Doesn't mean they used actual practise time to work on face punching.

So while everyone else here says players like Monahan and Sieloff need to be in the NHL or the AHL to work on things rather than going back to Junior because of the compete level, why would it make sense for Kanzig to work on face punching at the NHL level and then go back to the junior level to work on actual attributes that NHL players should have?

If it was a 10 minute chat then sure whatever no big deal, but if there was any time at all on the ice spent on the finer points of punching guys faces in, what a waste of time.

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#20 Avalain
September 26 2013, 10:11AM
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Colin.S wrote:

That's the LAST aspect of his game that should be worked on, and the fact he thinks it's important or anyone thinks face punching lessons is important doesn't have his best interests in mind.

This is easy for you to say, since you aren't the one getting your faced smashed in because you got into a fight and didn't really know what you were doing.

If he was spending hours every day working on his punching then I'd certainly agree with you. Even if it was one of the main things that he was working on I'd still agree with you. However, I'm willing to bet it isn't. It's very likely just a small thing that he is working on. However, with the knowledge that he is going to be getting into fights fairly certain (assuming they don't ban it from the NHL or something) I think learning how to get punched in the face less seems worthwhile.

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#21 TRAV
September 26 2013, 10:12AM
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Enjoyed the perspectives. Agree on most fronts though I am in the camp that if Monahan looks ready then he should play on the team. From what i have seen so far, he plays the game with poise, intelligence and the puck seems to follow him. He also looks good on the draws. The first nine games will be a good test.

Knight is another guy that often seems to be at the right place, right time. He also has really good finish around the net. when I watch Knight I'm always sort of Meh, then the puck finds him in the slot and he finishes. Might be our fourth line centre.

I think that more consideration needs to be given to the development of Baerchi. All of the talk about Monahan seems to have shifted the focus away from another of our promising young rookies. I didn't love his answers in the paper today as he seemed to have lost a bit of his cocky spark. I don't really think that he was given the right guys to work with in camp. IF he stays he needs to get top minutes. (Is it better to keep him for confidence or send him down to play and score?)

The only point in the article that confused me a little was the reference to limited d prospects on the farm. For the first time in awhile it seems like we have some depth on the farm. It won't shock me if one of Butler/ Smith is traded or starts the year in the minors. Too bad about Breen being out. He is sort of the forgotten man and I was looking forward to gauging his readiness.

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#22 piscera.infada
September 26 2013, 10:20AM
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@Colin.S

"If it was a 10 minute chat then sure whatever no big deal, but if there was any time at all on the ice spent on the finer points of punching guys faces in, what a waste of time."

That's a ridiculous assumption, and you know it. There is no way a professional sports organization is going to say: "alright Keegan, enough skating and system drills, come over here and spar with McGratton, your career depends on it - oh, by the way, please take an entire zone of the ice to do it, we don't need to prepare to play real games".

I didn't hear what he said about it, nor do I know where this "face punching" rumor came from... Maybe Hartley also had him talk to Ramo about goaltending - doesn't make him a goalie.

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#23 Baalzamon
September 26 2013, 10:23AM
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@McRib

Actually, Monahan CAN play in the AHL in the 2014/2015 season for the same reason Sven could last year--late birthdate. The confusion arises from the fact that the NHL Draft cut off is in September for no apparent reason when literally EVERY OTHER U20 determination is made using December 31st.

In other words, this is the last season where Monahan is considered a U20 player. It is his last chance to play for the World Junior team, and it is the last season he is ineligible to play in the AHL. Also, for anyone who is wondering, Monahan's contract WILL NOT slide next season--regardless of where he plays--because he will no longer be considered a U20 player. The same reason Sven's contract WOULD NOT have slid if he stayed in the AHL--he was not a U20 player anymore.

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#24 Colin.S
September 26 2013, 10:23AM
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Avalain wrote:

This is easy for you to say, since you aren't the one getting your faced smashed in because you got into a fight and didn't really know what you were doing.

If he was spending hours every day working on his punching then I'd certainly agree with you. Even if it was one of the main things that he was working on I'd still agree with you. However, I'm willing to bet it isn't. It's very likely just a small thing that he is working on. However, with the knowledge that he is going to be getting into fights fairly certain (assuming they don't ban it from the NHL or something) I think learning how to get punched in the face less seems worthwhile.

The problem is that rarely any fight requires any actual face punching, 90% of the fights are mostly hugging contests. And by virtue of Kanzigs size, most fights are over before they begin.

As well it is a "skill" currently trying to be fazed out of the NHL as for the most part a typical staged goon fight adds NOTHING of value to the NHL. If that's the skill he feels is most important to him getting into the NHL, well good for him, but it's one that is not long for the NHL if you can't do anything else that's required of your typical NHL player, well I don't know how he feels about career longevity.

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#25 SmellOfVictory
September 26 2013, 10:29AM
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Colin.S wrote:

No, it wouldn't be till his third year in his ELC he would be allowed to go to the AHL as per the agreement.

Monahan is old enough that he could play in the AHL next season (the player has to turn 20 by the end of the year the season starts).

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#26 Colin.S
September 26 2013, 10:33AM
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SmellOfVictory wrote:

Monahan is old enough that he could play in the AHL next season (the player has to turn 20 by the end of the year the season starts).

Okay, thanks, to bad it couldn't be this year, but that's good he doesn't have to go to junior next year should he still not be 100% ready for the NHL.

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#27 Jeff Lebowski
September 26 2013, 10:36AM
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The points about the kids are good and I respect them. I disagree about Monahan and its just too hard to know where someone will develop the best. Agree to disagree.

I thought Calgary would be really bad this year. I don't think that anymore. It might not be great but it's not going to be as ugly as I initially thought.

I think if they get some semblance of NHL goal tending and the young guys make strong contributions in their roles...

Last night, when Calgary was good, they were really good (against a well coached team with a solid NHL roster) However, they couldn't even make a pass for a while too. Calgary got good after the Jackman fight and dominated from the 10 min of third till the end.

BRODIE! What a horse.

They have to trade some guys because too many young guys have broken down the door. It may take til the trade deadline but too many kids proved they can play in the show.

Anyone notice Street last night? Speed.

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#28 Baalzamon
September 26 2013, 10:47AM
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@Jeff Lebowski

"Anyone notice Street last night? Speed."

Meh. Horak is (much) faster, and he's a better all-around player anyway.

"They have to trade some guys because too many young guys have broken down the door."

My hope would be that they bench Jones to start the season. I mean, I know it was only one game and Stajan and Stempniak and a few others weren't all that good either, but dear god was he terrible. And I don't think he was even average in any of the other games either (IIRC).

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#29 piscera.infada
September 26 2013, 10:51AM
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@Baalzamon

I'm not hanging my hat on Jones, but while I did think he was bad last night, I thought he was pretty good in the few other games I saw (Isles and Rangers). I don't know, I feel like with the correct line mates he could be a contributor - I'm not sure Monahan and Backlund really play to his strengths.

Agree re: Street. He always just seems to be a bit of a redundant talent to me. I don't know though, the coaching staff seems to like him - maybe there's something there we aren't seeing.

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#30 McRib
September 26 2013, 10:56AM
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@TRAV

"I don't really think that (Sven Baertschi) was given the right guys to work with in camp."

I agree, all preseason Sven was playing regularly with two guys such as a Max Reinhart or Ben Street who were long shots to make the team (outside of the Edmonton Game). Whereas Corbin Knight & Sean Monahan were playing with everyday NHLers. He also had zero PP time from what I saw the last couple of games.

I really hope the Flames don't send Sven down because he really wasn't given much opportunity, I think its just a case of after his performance at the end of last season they were looking at other young guys giving them the prime opportunities, as he was a lock.... Because he really wasn't given much after the Edmonton game where he looked great with T.J. Galiardi & Jiri Hudler.

Last night for example he created two or three Grade A scoring chances where his linemates just didn't finish it off even strength, but no power play time at all as a reward? I think sending him down to the AHL again would be counterproductive.

That Calgary Herald Article with Sven pissed me off... The Writer just bombarded him with brutal questions like "did you do enough to make the team" or "can you feel the pressure of Flames Fans" and he is supposed to come away seeming confident? If anyone is putting pressure on Sven its George Johnson of the Herald!!

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#31 Colin.S
September 26 2013, 10:57AM
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@piscera.infada

It wouldn't happen during a scrimmage or during structured practice, but they have time to work on their own before or after on the ice, or there are a bunch of face punchers who are now practicing things like MMA outside of the rink, which again is a waste of time. That isn't a skill that makes someone a better HOCKEY player. I'm not objected to a guy talking to McGratton and getting a piece of grandfatherly advice, but taking any actual time out of the kids schedule where he could be working on something useful rather than face punching skills is a waste of time. Or getting him into the mindset that the best path to the NHL is through his fists.

A defenseman with his size can be a very valuable asset to have, but if the focus on his game is his face punchability, then that is a serious flaw with what is being done.

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#32 Justin Azevedo
September 26 2013, 11:06AM
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@Avalain

simple way to avoid that is to not get in a fight

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#33 piscera.infada
September 26 2013, 11:08AM
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@Colin.S

My point being that you assume - because of an off-the-cuff statement - that is what they're doing. I'm just saying don't read too much into a statement he made or a statement that was interpreted by someone else, on the sole basis that it involved McGratton.

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#34 Jeff Lebowski
September 26 2013, 11:29AM
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Baalzamon wrote:

"Anyone notice Street last night? Speed."

Meh. Horak is (much) faster, and he's a better all-around player anyway.

"They have to trade some guys because too many young guys have broken down the door."

My hope would be that they bench Jones to start the season. I mean, I know it was only one game and Stajan and Stempniak and a few others weren't all that good either, but dear god was he terrible. And I don't think he was even average in any of the other games either (IIRC).

I know. Horak is a player too. This is what I mean by so many young guys having proved (in my mind) they deserve to be in show. Street was incredibly effective. He puts pressure on with his legs.

I was very wrong about Knight and Bouma. Last night, Knight (haha) blew me away with how good he is. He skated great. One play, he had to dump it but retrieved his own dump (that kind of sounds gross)! Did you see the play he made at blue line that put Sven in? He attacked the middle of ice, made a great move, drew both d at him, then chipped great pass to Sven on tape, on stride. Sven delayed and if you watched you saw Corban explode past the D to make it a mini 2 on 0. Sven made a short hard pass at Corban's stick (he should have shot low pad, had the rebound lie there for Corban to skate into but oh well). Corban ended up driving and knocking the net off, he was hanging on the crossbar, didn't score but holy cow! Amazing. I think it was against legit opposition too. If it was a case of keep EITHER Monahan OR Knight I think Corban may have sent Sean back to junior. I hope they keep both.

What I have said also in past from watching the camps in July was that I think Calgary has something very special in the making with the prospects. I now think it will arrive a lot sooner.

I am so excited for Calgary! There are so many solid to above average young guys. We may have no chance at the elite draft eligibles in the coming years but that's ok too.

I also know enough to temper my enthusiasm but the young talent , although not elite per se, is so good/promising. I include Baertschi, Brodie and Backlund.

Honestly, the vets I see as indispensable right now (displaced soon) are: Gio, Wideman Glencross and one of Cammy, Hudler. For stability and ability. I kind of think you have to keep Jackman right now too.

All the other ice time should go to kids.

Ramage, Seiloff and Wotherspoon will play soon

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#35 TRAV
September 26 2013, 11:43AM
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@Justin Azevedo

Justin,

As someone who played the game I would think that you would understand that this isn't always possible. As a 6'7 defensemen who plays a very aggressive game in the corners and in front of the net, fights are inevitable in today's game. While I don;t think that we should groom Kanzig as a one dimensional fighter, to suggest that he won't fight during his time in the league is ridiculous. To be honest I want a guy that is 6'7 can play and fight on my team. I would guess that you wouldn't have minded having a guy like this as your d partner back in the day. In my experience big tough skilled players make me better. I also will tell you that as a forward I hated going into the corner or into the front of the net with a guy like this. And if things got chippy and a fight broke out I really hated it!

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#36 Jeff Lebowski
September 26 2013, 12:23PM
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Sven needs to shoot early in games. He has to plant the seed in D to respect his shot. It doesn't have to even make it through.

He has to use his shot like Greg Maddux used the fastball. Locate it, make people look out for it, then all the other stuff is that much more effective. For Sven that means it opens up the passing lanes. It just gives him space. It doesn't have to be overpowering.

Shoot first, early and often. Dazzle later. Once he figures that out (be simple in order to be hard to defend) he will make people forget about any newspaper articles.

Sven is a legit top 6 guy. He has potential to be first line if he just becomes consistent/healthy. Shooting will get him there fastest.

Did you see the quicks he showed on a turn off the boards after a rim in his end. Left Michaelek grasping at air? He passed to DJones who ran over Smith and subsequently got his hair pulled. That quick move and transition to essentially a tough angle breakaway is desperately needed here.

Sven has all the tools. He still gets pushed around but it's because he attacks the scoring chance area.

All these young have the mentality and ability to create scoring chances. Gone are the days of hard off the glass, straight down the boards, get it behind the goal line and fire it into the goalies feet offensive game plan.

Add to it how Brodie relentlessly tries to attack, show poise, hold the puck and out skate literally everyone (he dances on the ice- so freaking good). Backlund with his composed, smart and highly skilled game.

I know how effusive this after 10 min of inspired hockey last night but early on they were just uptight. Plays were just missing, Smith played great. Berra just found out what he has to work on. Tracking the puck in traffic. He's huge and NOT terrible plus young.

Nothing said here matters. The coaches/management will decide but at the very least it will be entertaining and exciting.

You have to give Feaster credit (this DOES NOT MATTER, but Feaster should not do tv interviews with a shirt buttoned up that pushes his chins to an overflowing degree). He is the architect of what is to come in near future.

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#37 seve927
September 26 2013, 12:36PM
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@Baalzamon

"Also, for anyone who is wondering, Monahan's contract WILL NOT slide next season--regardless of where he plays--because he will no longer be considered a U20 player. The same reason Sven's contract WOULD NOT have slid if he stayed in the AHL--he was not a U20 player anymore."

http://www.nhlpa.com/inside-nhlpa/collective-bargaining-agreement

The CBA states (Section 9.1.d.ii) that a player who signs his ELC at age 18, and doesn't play 10 NHL games in the first year, his contract will slide, and if he doesn't play 10 NHL games in his second year, it will slide another year. A player who signs when he is 19 cannot have his contract slide if he turns 20 before Dec 31 of that year.

Can we agree that Sven and Sean signed when they were 18? What are you basing your claims on?

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#38 Justin Azevedo
September 26 2013, 12:38PM
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@TRAV

I just don't think he needs to fight anyone. most fights nowadays are still staged fights or ones when goons goon it up. as long as he plays a clean game, he won't have to fight.

as an aside, I think any time at all not spent on improving his skating to something that could be considered nhl-level is a mistake with this particular player.

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#39 Baalzamon
September 26 2013, 12:41PM
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@Jeff Lebowski

" If it was a case of keep EITHER Monahan OR Knight I think Corban may have sent Sean back to junior. I hope they keep both. "

Well, Monahan was better for the balance of camp. I'm not totally surprised that Knight got sent down. What I think will happen is he gets called up when Monahan is sent down (if he is... I'm not actually entirely sure that will happen anymore)

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#40 Lordmork
September 26 2013, 12:44PM
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Ferland, Reinhart, Knight and Kanzig have been cut. A bit surprised that Ben Street is still up, but I'd rather Knight get bigger minutes in the AHL than muck around on the 4th line.

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#41 Ca$h-Money!
September 26 2013, 12:47PM
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What's with all this talk of Monohan dominating Junior? The kid reportedly played upwards of 30 minutes a night and only managed a 1ppg pace. Not saying he's not a solid prospect but another year in junior wouldn't kill him. Hopefully he gets traded to a decent team.

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#42 McRib
September 26 2013, 01:02PM
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@Ca$h-Money!

Sean Monahan had 1.35 PGG last year in Junior?!?! He only played in 58 games if he played in a full 72 game season to put it into perspective he would have finished with 96 Points. Good for 5th overall in the OHL last year. He did dominate last year, Haha.

Not to mention he was on undoubtedly the worst team in all of the OHL. He had 38 MORE points than his next closest teammate and if he had any help numbers suggest he would have even put up more points.

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#43 everton fc
September 26 2013, 01:03PM
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Jeff Lebowski wrote:

I know. Horak is a player too. This is what I mean by so many young guys having proved (in my mind) they deserve to be in show. Street was incredibly effective. He puts pressure on with his legs.

I was very wrong about Knight and Bouma. Last night, Knight (haha) blew me away with how good he is. He skated great. One play, he had to dump it but retrieved his own dump (that kind of sounds gross)! Did you see the play he made at blue line that put Sven in? He attacked the middle of ice, made a great move, drew both d at him, then chipped great pass to Sven on tape, on stride. Sven delayed and if you watched you saw Corban explode past the D to make it a mini 2 on 0. Sven made a short hard pass at Corban's stick (he should have shot low pad, had the rebound lie there for Corban to skate into but oh well). Corban ended up driving and knocking the net off, he was hanging on the crossbar, didn't score but holy cow! Amazing. I think it was against legit opposition too. If it was a case of keep EITHER Monahan OR Knight I think Corban may have sent Sean back to junior. I hope they keep both.

What I have said also in past from watching the camps in July was that I think Calgary has something very special in the making with the prospects. I now think it will arrive a lot sooner.

I am so excited for Calgary! There are so many solid to above average young guys. We may have no chance at the elite draft eligibles in the coming years but that's ok too.

I also know enough to temper my enthusiasm but the young talent , although not elite per se, is so good/promising. I include Baertschi, Brodie and Backlund.

Honestly, the vets I see as indispensable right now (displaced soon) are: Gio, Wideman Glencross and one of Cammy, Hudler. For stability and ability. I kind of think you have to keep Jackman right now too.

All the other ice time should go to kids.

Ramage, Seiloff and Wotherspoon will play soon

Good stuff, Baalzamon.

No one's mentioning Ferland, who's looked consistent and quick all camp. Imagine him on a 4th line w/Bouma and Jackman? Would be fun to watch. However, he's being groomed as a power forward, which he truly is. His skating, vision, and smarts will improve, as he took the game up later in life, than most. Amazing potential. Can't wait to see what he does with it, but I remain convinced he'll be a regular on this team sooner, than later. He'll prove himself a true goal scoreer, in Abby.

Good to hear Knight looks good. Haven't seen much of him. I'll assume Baertschi's on the opening night roster. He should be. And yes, you keep Jackman, because he plays hard. He's not the best scrapper (I think Ferland would take him now) but he plays smart, can skate, hustles, and has better hands than it seems. Lots of bad luck last season. If he can pot 6-8 goals this season, with the right line mates...

Bouma is an NHL player. That's how I see it. He'll never exceed 3rd line duty in the league, and may be a career 4th line plugger. So be it. He's a good addition to any roster. Or so it seems...

Good to hear about Smith on the backend. Can't see where Street fits, long term. I'm on the fence about Monahan spending the season here. Horak needs to get his shot. Now. More ice time in Abby will benefit Knight long term. Smart move. Could Reinhart's stock be dropping? I wonder...

I was under the impression Wotherspoon didn't impress, up to now. Was I wrong? And what about Breen? Is there any hope?

Hey Shevvy - Desbiens still on the roster in Denver. One of the final 27 Avs still in camp! 11:50 TOI vs. the Stars the other evening. You never know!! :)

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#44 chillout
September 26 2013, 01:42PM
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@Colin.S

You don't have a clue what you are talking about. Where did it say hour stopped practice to go learn to fight?? Good grief man! It is a good thing for him to learn anyway when super goons like John scott come knocking he should be able to defend himself and not get killed like you want him to. So calm the hell down ten minutes of chatting with someone between drills isn't a big deal.

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#45 Justin Azevedo
September 26 2013, 02:41PM
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man people just hate me here

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#46 SVENSANITY
September 26 2013, 03:22PM
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@Kenta

I think that is somewhat of the point Lambert makes here.

In junior Sieloff can get away with these types of positionally sacrificing hits. Because he's fast enough, strong enough and better than the majority of junior aged players.

Playing in the AHL for him is the best for his development because he will get NHL quality coaching through Ward. And hopefully just hopefully he learns when to make the big hit and when to back off positionally so he plays the gaps at an NHL level.

I personally like the kid and think he's the type of agitating D that you need to have in the mix. At this point I'd put him in the top 4 in Abby with Ramage and Wotherspoon and Cundari. That gives him some decent minutes and an opportunity to maybe get some NHL games pending injuries also there's time towards the end of the season if the Flames are as expected out of the race for him to get some experience.

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#47 Colin
September 26 2013, 04:50PM
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chillout wrote:

You don't have a clue what you are talking about. Where did it say hour stopped practice to go learn to fight?? Good grief man! It is a good thing for him to learn anyway when super goons like John scott come knocking he should be able to defend himself and not get killed like you want him to. So calm the hell down ten minutes of chatting with someone between drills isn't a big deal.

Want to know how Kanzig can get super goon John Scott to not kill him. By not fighting him. John Scott is the definition of the immobile useless NHL goon. If Kanzig works on his skating ability and other USEFUL NHL skills rather than face punching, Kanzig will have no problem dealing with Scott as Kanzig will be able to skate away.

You want him to learn how to fight, sorry, defend himself cause it makes him tough or something. It is the single most useless skill he can learn at his stage of development. Look what happened to Seiloff after trying to show how tough or whatever he is, he's injured with a fractured facial bone, he's gonna look real tough sitting in the press box if that keeps happening.

Theres a reason that when the Olympics happen NOT A SINGLE NHL GOON is even MENTIONED as a candidate for the Olympic team. Why? Because the whole point is to ice the best possible team, and apparently that doesn't include goons, so why is it apparently mandatory in the NHL that players HAVE to fight? The Vancouver Olympics was some of the best Hockey I've ever seen, why is it suddenly mandatory the NHL much up skill by inserting goons into the lineup.

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#48 MC Hockey
September 26 2013, 08:26PM
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piscera.infada wrote:

I'm not hanging my hat on Jones, but while I did think he was bad last night, I thought he was pretty good in the few other games I saw (Isles and Rangers). I don't know, I feel like with the correct line mates he could be a contributor - I'm not sure Monahan and Backlund really play to his strengths.

Agree re: Street. He always just seems to be a bit of a redundant talent to me. I don't know though, the coaching staff seems to like him - maybe there's something there we aren't seeing.

Are all of you talking about David or Blair Jones? Time to be clear

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#49 MC Hockey
September 26 2013, 08:28PM
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@Justin Azevedo

Not me buddy! As you recall, we met and thought you were a smart, cool, interesting dude and certainly a good writer!

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#50 Baalzamon
September 26 2013, 08:36PM
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MC Hockey wrote:

Are all of you talking about David or Blair Jones? Time to be clear

David. I'm guessing you didn't read yesterday's game day thread if you don't know who I'm raging about haha.

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